Ban on Portable Electronic Device During Flight Ends in US

[Rotor Work]

From ABC News, Wonder how long it will be before Australia follows!
Regards R W

US aviation authority ends ban on use of electronic devices during flight - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-01/us-aviation-authority-ends-ban-on-mobile-phone-use-on-flights/5062628)

The US Federal Aviation Administration has ended a long-standing ban on using portable electronic devices on planes.
Passengers will now be able to use smart phones and tablets in airplane mode to play games and read downloaded materials like e-books and calendars during all phases of flight, including takeoff and landing.
Passengers will also be allowed to connect with an airline's Wi-Fi network and use bluetooth accessories like wireless mouse and headphones.
"Most commercial airlines can tolerate radio interference from portable electronic devices," FAA Administrator Michael Huerta said at a news conference at Reagan National Airport near Washington, DC.
"It's safe to read downloaded materials, like e-books, calendars and to play games."
However, talking on the phone in-flight is still banned.
The US aviation authority also says the new electronic devices policy will not apply in conditions of extremely low visibility when crews will give special instructions.
The new rule applies to the vast majority of US airlines flying domestically and internationally.
Delta Air Lines and JetBlue quickly filed plans with the FAA to show that their aircraft can tolerate radio signals from electronic devices, a condition required by the regulator.
Mr Huerta said he sought updated guidance on the matter, since the current policy was put in place about 50 years ago

Technology fans have recently decried the "high cost to the traveling public" of passengers not having unfettered access to their mobile devices.
"More than 105 million hours of disrupted technological activity on domestic flights is projected in 2013 - an estimated 104 per cent increase since 2010 - due to the FAA ban on the use of devices during takeoffs and landings," according to a May 2013 study by the Chaddick Institute for Metropolitcan Development at Chicago's DePaul University.
Among those giving input to the FAA for the long-awaited decision were representatives of airlines, plane manufacturers, passengers, flight attendants and the mobile technology industry.
A backer of the change, the Consumer Electronics Association on Wednesday urged the agency to ease restrictions before the busy holiday travel season.
It said the FAA's move "will bring policy on in-flight use of devices up to speed with the 21st century".
The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA applauded the decision as it pushed for "uniform technical, operational, and training standards that will allow for the safe, managed expansion of [person electronic device] usage by passengers."
The US Travel Association, an industry group, praised the move as a "common-sense, win-win" policy.

[Going Boeing]

I have had two experiences where a mobile phone has adversely affected the autopilot so I hope the ban during takeoff and landing stays. The further a mobile phone gets away from a tower, the higher the power level the phone uses to maintain contact so in an aeroplane, phones are generally operating at maximum power level unless there is a system installed in the aeroplane commanding the phones to a lower level (as was trialled in a QF B767 a few years ago).

[Capt Claret]

Great decision but I'd expect an increase in friction over here until the Australian authorities follow suit.

"But I'm allow to in the States!"

[Sarcs]

My reading of this FAA decision is that the onus of proof, that PEDs use in flight is safe, falls back on individual airlines and will be approved on a case by case basis.:rolleyes:

From the horses mouth: Press Release – FAA to Allow Airlines to Expand Use of Personal Electronics (http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=15254&cid=TW189)

Going Boeing: I have had two experiences where a mobile phone has adversely affected the autopilot so I hope the ban during takeoff and landing stays. Don't think the restrictions on mobile phones is going to change for sometime yet, from FAA Press Release:The FAA did not consider changing the regulations regarding the use of cell phones for voice communications during flight because the issue is under the jurisdiction of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). The ARC did recommend that the FAA consult with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to review its current rules. Cell phones differ from most PEDs in that they are designed to send out signals strong enough to be received at great distances And the FF response to this FAA initiative...well how long is a piece of string??:E

[Wally Mk2]

Common sense can't be filtering in here about this surely!
I for the life of me can't see how these devices effect any A/C system & having used Mob Ph's over the years CDMA (which worked well in flight) & the latest type in flight none of my planes spiraled out of the sky:-) Apart from the annoying noise in yr headset they used to make when trying to lock on to a tower they are harmless in y opinion.
Glad ya cant use them chatting away whilst airborne for the boguns back there, imagine 400 boguns all talking out loud on their Mob Ph's, there would be a riot.
:)
When you think about it it's almost pathetic to see that mankind has made a rod for his own back here by not being able to communicate to his fellowman mostly in dribble for a few hrs whilst moving around this planet, sad really:-(


Wmk2

[Pappa Smurf]

I thought you can already use phones in "airplane" mode for games etc,and I know many a folk who use tablets reading their already downloaded E-Books.
Surely it wouldn't be any different to someone writing up a report,or looking through his laptop.

[bankrunner]

I'd bet folding money that every RPT flight in this country in the last 10 years has had at least one, and probably closer to a dozen phones turned on for the whole duration of the flight despite cabin crew instructions. Out of all those flying hours, how many issues have been reported that could potentially be attributed to mobile phones in the cabin?

In my own experience (in piston singles/light twins), 2G GSM phones will occasionally upset the VHF NAV receiver, as well as causing the annoying headset buzz through the intercom and on transmitted VHF COM audio, particularly in aircraft with ancient Narco or Collins avionics that has much less noise immunity than modern equipment. And that's with the phone being not 2 feet away from a receiver; surely not an issue in a heavy.

With 3G/4G and CDMA phones however, I've seen no issues first hand.

[Lookleft]

According to CASA they don't have any rules restricting their use on board and it is up to the airlines to decide on their policy. The worst thing is trying to explain to passengers the difference in policy when arriving at an airbridge and a stand-off bay.

[Going Boeing]

I for the life of me can't see how these devices effect any A/C system

Both of the incidents that I experienced (3 years apart & different airplanes) involved the autopilot inputting rapid aileron oscillations - the second one (on descent into Singapore) was very rough and required prompt disengagement of the autopilot. Two LAME's who were paxing on the flight commented later, on how severe the rippling of the wing upper surface was.

The use of the mobile phone (on both occasions) occurred soon after a PA was made advising the pax of an ATC delay before landing.

[Captain Nomad]

Now imagine a fine day taking off and then hitting a flock of migrating geese and having a double engine failure. Pretty slim chances I know but lets say it happens and it is followed by an immediate decision to ditch in a nearby river... You only have time to give the briefest of warnings to pax and crew before ditching the aircraft. Sound familiar yet?

Now lets say some dude was there exhausted after a night at work and then a race to the airport to catch said flight. He puts on some nice relaxing head-banging music on the ipod and closes his eyes. He doesn't hear the cabin announcement or see the commotion and is only aware of the situation at the very end and doesn't get to brace or prepare properly and suffers severe whiplash and a spinal injury but survives the ditching.

Now he can legitimately whine to his lawyer and claim the airline didn't adequately prepare him and did not require him to be paying attention and therefore can he file a lawsuit since he now has a lifelong injury to deal with?

Won't happen? I won't hold my breath...

Interference issues aside (and for the record, I also believe I have had anomalies that can be attributed to mobile phones), passengers often seem to forget that one of the reasons for the policy is so that emergency situations can be communicated and get through their thick skull without having to play competition with the ipod/ipad/tablet/computer etc. during critical phases of flight.

Nice one USA... :ugh: :rolleyes:

[Angle of Attack]

GB,
Did you get an official report to say this interference was definitely caused by a mobile phone? Because I haven't seen any recorded case like this and it was a heavily studied topic especially in the last decade. If there was a proven link to your interference it would be surely published in a report somewhere. Please tell.
I'm not bagging but actually genuinely interested to read about it.

[Sarcs]

AoA not sure about GB's incidents but here is a report put out by NASA on PEDs incidents: http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/docs/rpsts/ped.pdf

You can also refer to my post (#1988) from the infamous closed Senate thread: PEDs drift and 'disallowance motion'? (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/468048-senate-inquiry-hearing-program-4th-nov-2011-a-100.html#post7873163) :ok:

[aussie027]

This gave me a damn good laugh, every pilot/ FA/ pax should see this. With these new rules and changes I can just see the FA and pax going through a Q & A session.LOL

Enjoy-

Why Can't You Use Phones on Planes? - CollegeHumor Video (http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6905768/why-cant-you-use-phones-on-planes)

[Angle of Attack]

Thanks for the link but they are all circumstantial incidents, yet to see a proven link for an aircraft navigational incident caused by a PED. Lots of alleged, suspect, assumed in those reports...and more than half are the real issues with PEDS, overheating or fire onboard...that's where the danger is.

[Berealgetreal]

If safety was really the issue, lithium batteries would be the focus. Aviation attracts numerous morons that dream up stupid ideas and scenarios whilst conveniently ignoring the real issues. Work/Rule creation schemes like security screening, explosive testing and ASIC cards. One day there will be a rail alternative and people won't bother with our industry.

[601]

but they are all circumstantial incidents

Just because they are alleged "circumstantial incidents", does not mean that they have not occurred with a particular combination of aircraft type, seat position, PED type, PED activity, avionics make, etc, that has not been replicated by the alleged studies.

How can an aircraft manufacturer, CASA, the FAA, NTSB, ATSB test and confirm that NO PED on the market today will not cause interference on board an aircraft.

The leakage of RF from consumer products is on the increase, especially with "no-brand" products making an appearance in the marketplace.

For instance, I have replaced the bulbs my bedside lamps with LED bulbs. When the LEDs are switched on I cannot receive digital radio reception with my bedside digital radio.

[Wally Mk2]

Well I am still not convinced that Mob Ph's cause any issues other than say noise in ones headset at times. I've had a Mob Ph turned on in the cockpit for a zillion years & NEVER had any issues in all types of planes from basic to fancy FBW. In fact in my last job it was a requirement to have the Mob Ph on during flight as often it was used whilst airborne arranging ground support.
And has been said here every A/C that leaves the ground the world over would have dozens of Phones still active, don't read too many stories of planes falling from the sky for no reason.
God 'elp us if the boguns all have their Mob Ph's on but I guess no one listens to the briefings anyway these days as flying is so common & repetitious.
Anyway like most things in aviation rule wise for pax it's all about fear keeping them fearful to keep an ongoing industry going, security....the laugh/joke of the 20th & 21st century!!



Wmk2

[compressor stall]

I've been sitting on the ground on a turn around in BNE with the cockpit window open (A320 family).

Phone rings, immediately "GPS PRIMARY LOST" appeared on the ND and the SID and airport slewed off the side of the screen.

It was a short call, them when I hung up it the message disappeared and everything slewed back to normal.

Call it circumstantial or what you will but no phone is staying on cellphone mode in my cockpit of anything with FBW.

But as we know this easing of the ban only relates to devices with the cellular 3G communications disabled so that they could work on wifi.

[frogfriday]

The 'ban' on cellular frequencies in the US relates to FCC requirements, not aircraft safety.

Most airlines that have been undertaking testing iaw the RTCA docs have also confirmed aircraft/LRU compatability with these frequencies.

[theheadmaster]

Hey Wally, where did you complete your EE degree?

[Wally Mk2]

Elec Eng degree completed over a vast amount of time with much field research:ok:

'CS' remind me not to leave the window open whilst in Brisvegas, obviously there's some funny things in the air up there:)

Wmk2

[Luke SkyToddler]

I read in a pommie paper years ago that in most B737/A320 size jets there's an average of 12 - 15 cellphones switched on every flight anyway, either forgotten about in luggage, or pax just ignoring the rules.

Every man and his dog and his 2-year-old kid has an ipad AND a smartphone these days - plus all the new gadgetry like bluetooth music headsets - it's only getting worse so, trying to come down on the pax harder and harder to switch all their gear off is like plugging the hole in the dike with your fingers. If there is or was a safety risk, then putting that safety onus on the pax to do the right thing, has never worked and it never will.

This policy change was inevitable sooner or later, if the FAA has done their research and says it's ok, then I'm comfortable with it

[airsupport]

I find this subject quite odd, IF it is true that these devices can have a dangerous effect on the operation of Aircraft then IMHO there is something very wrong with these Aircraft.

To blame mobile phones is just ridiculous, for many years I flew all over Australia in Aircraft that had a mobile phone fitted in the cockpit, ringer disabled in case it rang at a critical stage of flight, and more often than not all 3 of us in the cockpit would be using our mobile phones, NEVER any problems.

Admittedly these were REAL Aircraft, not FBW, but IF these FBW Aircraft are affected then the problem is with the Aircraft.

Having said that I would NOT want to be a passenger on a passenger flight with all these phones in use, NOT because of any risks but because it would be a nightmare.

[Wally Mk2]

'AS' of course its odd this debate thee are always the usual two sides, those that believe planes will fall like aluminum rain from the sky due Mob ph's being on & those that live in the real world full knowing that hundreds of thousands of Mob Ph's are on every day in flight world wide & never see these infernal machines falling with death screams!:E
If there was any real concern then there would be strip searches at check in to make sure all Mob Ph's have the batteries removed & the owners hands tied:E Those that believe Mob Ph's cause uncontrolled flight then I suggest you write a letter & post it once you are safely on the ground:ok: Oh & don't stand outside under a flight path, that's just to risky:E


Wmk2

[mustafagander]

We need to consider, of course, the fact that many airlines now have all the Jepp charts, performance tools and FCOM on iPads and suchlike which are required to be operating in all phases of flight.

I've managed to survive so far!