Transatlantic travel in the 1930s

[Tankertrashnav]

I have to confess to being a great fan of the Agatha Christie's Poirot series on TV. I love the period detail, art deco sets, cars etc, and there are some very polished performances from the actors.

In the latest adventure, however, it seems that whoever wrote the episode hadn't got Agatha Christie's attention to detail in writing the plot. In the opening scene Captain Hastings is sitting on his ranch in Argentina where he opens an air mail letter informing him that his old friend Poirot has died. Later on we see him attending the funeral in London.

Now, bearing in mind this is around 1938, does anyone have any idea, firstly how quickly an airmail letter would reach Argentina at the time, and how quickly could Hastings have reacted to the news and flown home, and by what route? Personally I think you'd have to delay the funeral for quite a while, but maybe I'm overestimating the time it would take.

Any educated ideas? I have a vague idea the Germans operated airship services to South America at the time, but maybe I imagined that.

Yes I know, I need to get out more, but it's been puzzling me!

[A30yoyo]

The French had a mail(no pax) air service across from Dakar to Natal, Brazil around 1938 replaced by the LATI Italian service from 1939 Rome via Spain to Natal so a letter from the UK to Argentina a week?, plus more than that for Hastings to get back?

[Tankertrashnav]

So we are probably talking about 15 days minimum, probably more.

Doesn't surprise me. This wasn't the only bit of lazy plotting in this story, but the only one with aviation content.

Agatha would have had it all worked out before committing it to print!

[Brian Abraham]

The following article may be of interest Popular Science - Google Books (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=pigDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA13&dq=Popular+Science+1931+plane&hl=en&ei=q78LTaeBEcyTnQf_5cHUDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Popular%20Science%201931%20plane&f=true)

Lifted from Wiki Deutsche Luft Hansa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Luft_Hansa) about Deutsche Luft Hansa. References at bottom of Wiki page may provide info.

After several years of testing, the first scheduled postal route between Europe and South America was inaugurated in 1934. For this purpose, catapult-launched Wal flying boats were used. These were replaced by the Dornier Do 18 in 1936 making operations in non-visual conditions possible. The European network saw the introduction of the Junkers G.38 on the Berlin-London route via Amsterdam, as well as the Junkers Ju 52/3m and Heinkel He 70, which allowed for faster air travel.

The grip on the domestic South American markets was further tightened in 1937, when the Sociedad Ecuatoriana de Transportes Aéreos (SEDTA) and Lufthansa Perú were founded as Luft Hansa co-operations in Ecuador and Peru respectively, operating Junkers W 34 aircraft. The Middle Eastern network was expanded with the launch of the Berlin-Baghdad-Tehran route in the same year. In 1938 the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 long range aircraft was introduced making it possible to fly non-stop between Berlin and New York and from Berlin to Tokyo with only one intermediate stopover.

On 1 April 1939, Deutsche Luft Hansa launched scheduled transatlantic flights between Port Natal, South Africa and Santiago de Chile using Fw 200 aircraft, a route which had previously been operated by Syndicato Condor. .

During the 1930s, Luft Hansa aircraft had also been deployed on a number of experimental and survey missions, most notably for developing the best airborne crossing of the South Atlantic.

I have found info elsewhere that the first six flights were completed within five days. Someone may find a schedule perhaps.

air france | miles | vickers vimy | 1934 | 1345 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1934/1934%20-%201345.html?search=Deutsche%20Luft%20Hansa)

[A30yoyo]

Hang on....The FW200 Condor did fly non-stop Berlin-NY pre-war but only experimentally not a service...a Natal S.A. to Chile service pre-war is news to me also...only shows as Wikipedia reference on Google so needs checking (its not confusion with Natal, Brazil, is it?)

[Toiyabe]

As an aside, Aeropostale began flying the airmail from Paris to Buenos Aries in 1927, and in Exupery's Night Flight it is aid to take three days.

So, that part is easy enough, figure four to five days for a letter to be delivered. Of course, a transatlantic cable had been laid by 1938, so a telegram would have been easier... For return, although various airlines claimed to operate a Natal-Dakar route, the actuality was few actually did. I'd agree that 10 days would probably be accurate.

However, looking at PANAGRA materials, he could have hopped flights to Miami and then across to Europe, either by way of Bermuda and the Azores (Imperial, PanAm, etc..) or New York to Berlin on Luft Hansa. it would have had to be timed exquisitely, but theoretically could have been done in four days if not slightly less.

[Wander00]

Was that bit in the original Agatha Christie novel or was it added for "dramatic effect"?

[Tankertrashnav]

Some terrific answers here - most grateful and its certainly widened my knowledge of early transatlantic travel.

Wander 00 - not sure because I havent got the book, but certainly a lot of the TV tales are "suggested" by original Agatha Christie novels and freely adapted for the small screen.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Some terrific answers here - most grateful and its certainly widened my knowledge of early transatlantic travel.

Wander 00 - not sure because I havent got the book, but certainly a lot of the TV tales are "suggested" by original Agatha Christie novels and freely adapted for the small screen.

Which book is it?

G

[Allan Lupton]

If the story was set "about 1938" it's worth reminding you that until 1937 DZR operated a weekly Friedrichshafen-Rio de Janeiro service using LZ127, Graf Zeppelin, which crossed the South Atlantic 136 times in all.

[Tankertrashnav]

Genghis - the book is The Big Four which was written in 1927, but has been very freely adapted by Mark Gatiss and reset in 1939, in fact (I checked the postmark on Hastings' letter!).

Thus it's too late for Hastings to fly to Rio and catch the Zeppelin, but thanks for the info Allan, I'm glad I hadn't imagined that airship service !

[A30yoyo]

Condor at Floyd Bennett Field N.Y (1938)....also read
Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor in New York (http://www.airliner.net/nazi-airliner-brooklyn-ny-condor-fw200)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6430011303_e2ca198fee_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/amphalon/6430011303/)
Focke Wulf Fw 200 Condor (http://www.flickr.com/photos/amphalon/6430011303/) by amphalon (http://www.flickr.com/people/amphalon/), on Flickr
(D-ACON was later ditched off Manila returning from a Berlin-Tokyo experimental flight)
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4147/5007618198_0a08143227_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/johntewell/5007618198/)
by John T Pilot (http://www.flickr.com/people/johntewell/), on Flickr

Connection from Argentina to Rio on a Ju-52?LIFE - Hosted by Google (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/00308d3e03aa3e22.html)

L.A.T.I Savoia at Rio 1940 (operated from late December 1939)
Rome-Rio Italian Airline - Hosted by Google (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/948fa2bd459454f5.html)

Zeppelin over Rio pre 1937?
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5036/5905847015_8b4e4d963e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/5905847015/)
Zeppelin over Rio (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/5905847015/) by kitchener.lord (http://www.flickr.com/people/27862259@N02/), on Flickr

Lufthansa also speeded the South Atlantic mails with catapulted Blohm und Voss floatplanes
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4097/4822802378_a5b59862fa_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822802378/)
Blohm & Voss HA-139 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822802378/) by San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives (http://www.flickr.com/people/sdasmarchives/), on Flickr

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4123/4822802332_661d20228a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822802332/)
Blohm & Voss HA-139 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822802332/) by San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives (http://www.flickr.com/people/sdasmarchives/), on Flickr

In 1938 Hastings could have hopped a ride on the noteworthy transatlantic aerial delivery of a Lockheed 14 for LOT Polish Airlines
SP-LMK (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac5/ROW%20Europe/SP-LMK.html)

And up till WWII he COULD have hopped a ride on a regular Air France Farman 2200 mail-plane Natal, Brazil to Dakar, Senegal though they didn't advertise a passenger service
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6124/5918349700_1531957393_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/5918349700/)
Farman F.2200 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/5918349700/) by kitchener.lord (http://www.flickr.com/people/27862259@N02/), on Flickr

Air France had replaced Latecoere 300 flying boats on the South Atlantic mail-route after the loss of 'Croix du Sud' with Mermoz in 1936
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8015/7585526300_017ffc7c0d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/7585526300/)
Latecoere, LAT 300 , Croix du Sud ""Southern Cross"" (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/7585526300/) by San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives (http://www.flickr.com/people/sdasmarchives/), on Flickr

Proving flights on the North Atlantic were made with even larger Latecoere boats e.g this 521 wrecked in Florida and rebuilt did 4 France to NY trips in 1939
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7123/7585526932_b05584984b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/7585526932/)
Latecoere, LAT 521, Lieutenant de Vaisseau Paris (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/7585526932/) by San Diego Air & Space Museum Archives (http://www.flickr.com/people/sdasmarchives/), on Flickr


Between 1937 and 1940 Imperial Airways Empire flying boats Caledonia, Cambria, Cabot, Caribou, Clyde and Clare carried out proving flights across the North Atlantic, the initial and final ones without flight refuelling,( Cavalier which operated N.Y.-Bermuda never flew the Atlantic, it was disassembled & sea-shipped in a huge crate)
Bermuda Air Service Air Views - Imperial Airways-"Caldonia" - Hosted by Google (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/94b0fc16af17afd5.html)
and there's a youtube (from 4min30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9CVbDaXWnY&list=PL331C54A772191396&index=1

....the Mercury-Maia combination in 1938
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2763/4379894472_d5e6e61b6d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7691137@N06/4379894472/)
Mercury and Maia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7http://www.flickr.com/photos/7691137@N06/4379894472/#691137@N06/4379894472/) by Stephen Greensted (http://www.flickr.com/people/7691137@N06/), on Flickr

....and several Empire boats were refuelled by Harrow tankers in 1939
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6163/6220102241_9b6dc37f89_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/6220102241/)
Handley Page HP.54 Harrow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/6220102241/) by kitchener.lord (http://www.flickr.com/people/27862259@N02/), on Flickr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOlgtozYPh8


And as mentioned above Pan American's Boeing 314s started a 'proper' scheduled transatlantic service to Southampton and Lisbon from June 1939
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6191/6074722000_953294719f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jassy-50/6074722000/)
postcard - PanAm B-314 Dixie Clipper, 1939 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jassy-50/6074722000/) by Jassy-50 (http://www.flickr.com/people/jassy-50/), on Flickr

Short's genuinely transatlantic flying boat the S.26 G-class never crossed the Atlantic but served the RAF and BOAC over the Bay of Biscay, Africa, Indian Ocean and the Near East
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5043/5275244940_c903d116b2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mryurigagarin/5275244940/)
S.26 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mryurigagarin/5275244940/) by Mr.YuriGagarin (http://www.flickr.com/people/mryurigagarin/), on Flickr

[WHBM]

There were services across the South Atlantic by both Lufthansa and Air France, principally for air mail. Here is the Air France timetable, showing both operators' weekly services for the route, for summer 1939. Four days from Paris to Buenos Aires.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/af/af39/af39-25.jpg

[wrecker]

That would explain why the meteorology paper I sat for my license contained a question on the climatology of the Dakar-Recife route!

[Tankertrashnav]

Well it's starting to look as though, far from an impossible task, Hastings would have had a number of options to choose from, even though most of them would have involved sprawling on the mailbags most of the way from BA to Paris!

I recently gave a talk on the history of AAR from Alan Cobham's first trials with the HP 10 and the Airspeed Courier to the present day. I had completely forgotten about the Harrow and the Empire Flying boats. Some lovely pictures there, A30yoyo - thanks.

[Rosevidney1]

TTN, were you aware that A30yoyo was present that evening?

[Tankertrashnav]

I was wondering that, Rosevidney!

[A30yoyo]

Tankertrashnav....I figured who you were by about post#5 :-) so pulled out the stops a little....there are photos on the net showing the Harrow-to-Empire hose procedure a little more clearly (but not with a forum insert facility) .
One consequence of this fun thread was the exposure of error (now fixed) (about Lufthansa's efforts pre-war) in the Wikipedia 'Transatlantic Flight' page so it wasn't a waste of time...enjoyed the Victor/refuelling talk btw

P.S. The Zeppelin pic must be a fake as the shadow is longer than the airship ,it should be the same length, surely

[SOPS]

That tanker shot is incredible!! I had no idea that they were doing air to air refuelling so long ago!!

[Tankertrashnav]

A30yoyo - I had never seen that amazing clip of the Harrow refuelling the Empire Flying Boat before. That would have gone down very well at Air Britain! Thanks for posting it. Glad you enjoyed the talk.

SOPS - Cobham had done even earlier trials with an Airspeed Courier and a Handley Page H10 as the tanker in 1936. An attempt was made to fly non stop from the UK to India, which failed only when the Courier went u/s over Malta with a non-refuelling related fault. Here's a link to a photo (sorry I haven't got Photobucket), do you fancy being the guy poked out of the top of the Courier to catch the line from the tanker and reel the hose down? :eek:

http://www.cobham75.com/media/1165/Cobham%20086_216x169.jpg

[India Four Two]

For anyone interested in Cobham and the history of in-flight refueling, I can thoroughly recommend:

"Cobham: The Flying Years" by Colin Cruddas (ISBN 0752407813).

Colin was a long-time employee of Flight Refueling.

PS I may have got the wrong book. It might be 'In Cobhams' Company', also by Colin.

[seacue]

PanAm started trans-Pacific air mail service in 1935 using the Martin 130. Passenger service between California and the Philippines started in 1936, also using the Martins. There were overnight stops.

Three Martin 130s were built.
Martin M-130 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_M-130)
Martin M-130 China Clipper (http://www.aviation-history.com/martin/m130.html)