Hour Building USA - (Master thread)

[Kai Tak]

Thanks Kai Tak. Have you used them previously?

Yep.
Many times. I usually rent a plane there for a few weeks.

[bulldog89]

Hi Kai Tak,

I’ll fly with them next March, may I ask if you usually go with the wet rate or negotiate a dry one?

[Kai Tak]

Hi Kai Tak,

I’ll fly with them next March, may I ask if you usually go with the wet rate or negotiate a dry one?
Wet rate. They reimburse the fuel, just keep the receipts.

[bulldog89]

Got it, thanks!

[dimtsi89]

Hi everyone,

I am current planning my time building,sorry if it is already awnsered.Can i log hours on non-Easa plane,so i can use it for getting easa-cpl?

[pilot freak]

Anyone planning to do hour building next month?

[jayteeto]

It was a long time ago, but I did 50 in a week....... night

i was pretty tired on the Virgin flight home

[airbourne]

Cross Country:

Has anyone done east to west coast of vice versa for the benefit of hour building?

How long has something like Florida to California taken?

How many hours could you burn flying something like that route?

[bulldog89]

Cross Country:

Has anyone done east to west coast of vice versa for the benefit of hour building?

How long has something like Florida to California taken?

How many hours could you burn flying something like that route?

Going in next March in a 172N. Estimating from 60 to 70 hours due to some sightseeing, could be less (around 55 hours flight time) at 105 kts. This for California-Florida and back.

[airbourne]

Going in next March in a 172N. Estimating from 60 to 70 hours due to some sightseeing, could be less (around 55 hours flight time) at 105 kts. This for California-Florida and back.


Do you have an idea of the cost of it yet?

How many hours a day are you intending to cover?

How long will you spend on the return journey?

Thanks

[bulldog89]

Rate is 105$/block hour wet for an IFR WAAS GPS C172N, could be less selecting another airplane.

Some days 2, some days 5, some days zero. I took 22 days off but again...I’m taking it easy. I’ll try to get to the East Coast in 5 days and then come back leaving space for chill out days/extra days for maintenance and/or weather.

[thisishomebrand]

Can I ask who you are using to rent the plane? I am interested in doing something like this later this year.

[bulldog89]

Sure, it’s PlusOneFlyers, based in San Diego CA.

[B2N2]

Hi,
I am going modular to do my training from zero to hero to get the frozen EASA ATPL. And I would like to start in the USA for my PPL and building hours. However, it's getting quite confusing and I would thank a lot if someone can bring some light.

I saw there are just a few schools in the USA that offer EASA training. And I am confused in aspects like this:

EASA/FAA? PPL:
- if you get a EASA PPL in the USA, how can you build hours in the USA? (I mean, I guess the authority will have to ask you for a FAA PPL to fly in their area, isn't it?)
- so, should I just do a FAA PLL in any school in the USA? and then convert it to EASA PPL? (I searched, but it doesn't seem like a standard convertion... some people say it's just about doing more hours and more exams, but it's not clear)

Building hours
- If I plan to build all the hours in the USA before doing my EASA CPL in the UK, will all the hours count towards CPL requirements?
- if I decide to build hours both in USA and Europe, does it make it more complicate and I would need both FAA and EASA PPL?

As a note, I have no issues with visas as I can work and live both in USA and Europe. And my modular plan is:
1) PPL and Night Rating in the USA
2) Building hours in USA and/or Europe (mainly UK and/or Spain)
3) ATPL theory, CPL+IR+MEP+MCC+JOC in the UK

Thanks a lot!!


You’re over complicating things a little.
The only difference is the examiner you fly with as you will fly a US registered plane with an FAA authorized instructor during your “EASA” training.
In short you need to meet all the US requirements also for instance in order to solo.
Now the US PPL requires some additional maneuvers to be demonstrated during your flight with a FAA examiner. You’ll likely need two flights and 3hrs to be endorsed for your US PPL before or after you’ve flown with the EASA examiner.
Your time building will therefore be on an FAA PPl.

That should answer your question.

Now here is my suggestion: forget about doing it that way.
Go to a FAA certified Part 141 school and do your Instrument rating right after your Private.
Now switch to Part 61 (at the same school) for your FAA CPL training so you can do all of your time building on an IFR flight plan.
You’ll have about 100-120 hrs to fly and do at least half at night on an IFR flightplan.
Its all about filling in as many columns in your logbook flying the same hour.
Example:

3 hrs Flight should be


cross country
PIC
Night
IFR

Once youve completed your FAA CPL then go to Europe for a conversion of your licenses.
Save your training records, credit card receipts, printout from your school accounting system.
Anything and everything that can verify every single hour you have flown.

There are differences in how training flights and Pilot In Command In logged under FAA and under EASA so use a logbook that has several empty columns and designate one ‘EASA PIC’ so you won’t have any issues during your conversion process.

Words of wisdom:
There are several “EASA” schools in the USA and few of them have a better then checkered reputation.
There are literally hundreds of FAA approved Part 141 schools.

The advantage of doing your Instrument rating under part 141 is that you can start right after your Private and don’t need the 50hrs XC PIC the regulations require under Part 61.

[Maverick97]

Hi there,

Anyone got any experience with Flying Academy based at Miami exec?

They seem to offer competitive hour building packages and I’m considering doing a block of flying when I’m over there.

[miguel22]

Hi there,

Anyone got any experience with Flying Academy based at Miami exec?

They seem to offer competitive hour building packages and I’m considering doing a block of flying when I’m over there.

They seem organised but if you have time and want to save a bit of money, don't rent an airplane with this "big schools". You have a lot of small "airclubs" in Florida and also in San Diego Region which offers much better deals. That was the conclusion that I got when I was doing my research. Also try to take a look on Pilots Paradise. They are a small company but quite organised apparently.

FYI I am still planning my trip so I might change ideas :*

Good luck :)

[TempoTCu]

As an Aussie, I've seen plenty of posts about how flight training in the US is so much cheaper than here. I'm not debating this - its factual. What I am interested to know is whether it is more cost effective for an Aussie to complete their CPL in the US. Whilst the hour building will save a lot of coin, there are additional expenses and hidden costs including:
- getting to the US and back
- paying to stay somewhere while undertaking the training
- loss of income from not having a job whilst undertaking the training

So, taking the above into account, is it more cost effective as an Aussie to get a CPL in Australia or the US? Thanks!

[bulldog89]

TempoTCu you're saying the things that are rolling around in my brain as well. When everything is added up, is it actually cheaper/worthwhile to hour build in the US?

Costs-

- Return flights
- Visa (to some extent you're going for training not as a tourist)
- Insurance (make sure you tell them what you're up to)
- Accommodation
- Transportation
- Food
- Entertainment
- Flying hours and the trimmings
- Time off from work (you could use holiday pay, but if there is a delay?)
- Maintaining costs at home
- Costs associated with delays e.g. bad weather
- Costs associated with conversions

I've lived in the US on/off for the past several years and would say the cost of living is generally higher compared to the UK at least.

I would argue that you could hour build much faster than most places (UK/Europe), but I'm not seeing a cost benefit. Happy to be proved wrong though

Don't know about the UK, but I've just came back from the US.
Flew 76 hrs, taking into account all of the above I paid 12200 USD (could have been less taking a cheaper plane as the C152, or cheaper accommodation or not going to Las Vegas or to San Francisco or whatever). Went heavily X-country. Price for 76 hrs in a comparable plane (not NVFR/IFR certified, US plane was both) in Italy is 16700 USD. Landing fees plus living/transportation costs at home not included, just the plane. I'd go back right now if I could.

So if you live in Italy and have the possibility just do it. No idea about flying related costs in the UK.

[bulldog89]

Around 75.

[seaman208]

- Visa (to some extent you're going for training not as a tourist)


I am currently going through my PPL training in France. I am planning to do some hours building in US after the completion of my EASA PPL.

Since I am not an EU national (nor US) I only hold a tourist visa (B2) which I would like to use for going in hours building there. Do you think I have chances to face issues with that ?

Thanks.

[bulldog89]

For hour building only even an ESTA would be enough (14 USD)...

[selfin]

seaman208, private flying, not involving a course of study, may be conducted by aliens admitted under a B-class visa or under the visa waiver program. A flight review will not be treated as a course of study.

[Alex3008]

As an Aussie, I've seen plenty of posts about how flight training in the US is so much cheaper than here. I'm not debating this - its factual. What I am interested to know is whether it is more cost effective for an Aussie to complete their CPL in the US. Whilst the hour building will save a lot of coin, there are additional expenses and hidden costs including:
- getting to the US and back
- paying to stay somewhere while undertaking the training
- loss of income from not having a job whilst undertaking the training

So, taking the above into account, is it more cost effective as an Aussie to get a CPL in Australia or the US? Thanks!

YES and YES is the short answer. I did the research myself and i terminated my Swinburne Uni offer faster than Usain Bolt! What was appearing to me most after visiting a few flight schools over there was the ability to go from PPL to CPL with ME add on & CFI, II in less than 8 months. Ofcourse that involves alot of flying and hard work but when you compare how they do things in US vs Aus, in US they make things very simple when it comes to flying and they got no bias whats so ever on you! You also do more flying in US than Aus during your training plus after completing your course you will have about 12 months work rights (depending on your type of visa) and you can use that time to build significant hrs doing all sort of gigs as long as you got the right attitude! One of the schools (i didn't visit them just talk to them) told me they prefer hiring their own trained CFI students after completing their studies (including international students). They told me they can guarantee on that and they are willing to put it in writing!

[seaman208]

Thanks to both of you for the information.

[davidteen14]

Hello, guys!
I flew in 2017 in Florida with a Cessna from Paragon Flight School, which is located in Fort Myers and I gave them a call recently as I want to fly again a few hours, and they don't do any rentals with their C172s anymore as they are really busy using them for training purposes only.
Is there anybody around that has rented an airplane from a flight school or a private owner in Florida and maybe could give me some advice on whom I should contact. I've seen numerous options online but some advice from somebody that has actually been in contact with them would be really helpful.
Thank you!

[Zemer]

Hello guys!
About hours building in the US- how difficult it to fly in US?
I guess that I'll take an instructor for some few hours... but does it possible to fly there alone for the first time?

[avtomaton]

Usually you need at least a checkout (1-2 hours), but if you haven't flown in the US at all, it's definitely worth to fly some time with an instructor. It's not about piloting only. The airspace is different, the controllers are different, even the phraseology is somewhat different. For example, for me it initially was hard to understand the ATC. After some time you get used to it, but initially it is very frustrating. But the experience is really great. A lot of traffic, no landing fees almost everywhere, much cheaper flight hour, great infrastructure, great flight planning and weather briefing resources (for free!), everybody speaks English :)

[jamesgrainge]

Thought I should write a review of CAS in Phoenix Arizona.

Phoenix and the surrounding area is an incredibly diverse and beautiful part of the world, with friendly people and plenty to keep you entertained. I would definitely reccomend it. The weather is almost perfect and offers beautiful flying for much of the year.

However as for Chandler Air Service I would hesitate to give them a glowing endorsement.

They were initially accommodating, well organised and structured and we were out flying within a couple of hours for the check ride. You have to do a mountain course which takes about a day and covers high altitude operations etc etc. The instructors were polite, friendly and helpful. The planes are ageing, but have GPS inside them which makes flying distance more pleasurable, especially with the countryside in Arizona being quite difficult to distinguish one area from another.

Unfortunately they also have a couple of odd procedures, as I found out after sorting my American licence, one of which is the necessity to write a flight plan which sits in their office. I found this a pain, as we know, flying in the UK is often ad hoc and changes depending on weather. I understand the need for a destination, but a full route including way points and fuel stops, really? Do you really need to quiz me about if I have checked the weather brief, got the Notams, destination info and have my route assessed by an instructor? I arrived carrying a document explaining I had met the requirements for the issue of a pilots licence that entitled me to fly, all that kind of thing is exactly what we are trained to do. Fair enough once, or go over the procedures, but every day? And to be told one day "you can't do that" and to re plan a route. Incredibly galling. Worse to find out the CFI has contacted air traffic while you're out to "check you're on an active flight plan". And due to the 365 days of good flying weather in that area, when there is a cloud in the sky within 500 miles, or the metar suggests a "prob30" of some gusty weather you will be told flying is out of the question. In the UK we would strap on our big boy pants and give it a go. Otherwise we would never fly anywhere. Twice I sat on the ground because of forecasts weather which simply never appeared.

That leads me onto my next problem. Fuel.

We know a PA28 carries roughly four hours fuel endurance in its tanks. CAS have a weird rule where you need upto a couple of hours fuel ideally in reserve. That limits the options you are given by wiping half an hour per stop, every two hours into a day's flying. It becomes a pain, and in odd circumstances, as I found with weather I was having to deviate back to Chandler for fuel instead of making the three hour leg down to Tucson as I intended.

On the subject of aircraft, the Piper I flew for the first few weeks, 11T, was recalcitrant to start. Initially they blamed it on cooler weather (a balmy 11/12°C). My comments about starting multiple PA28 in the UK in 0° were not appreciated.

After a week of flying, and almost getting stuck in Lake Havasu due to poor starting, the AC began to really act up. One morning I could not start it at all. It was wheeled into the hangar and I flew another plane. The next day it was suggested it was my fault for "running the auxiliaries without the engine running". I have never once had a problem here, and checking the lights and stall horn work are hardly unreasonable pre start items. A day or two later after some lunch en route the AC failed to start entirely, leaving me with no choice but to pray on the kindness of the engineers that luckily at Havasu very kindly attempted to start her with little success. Eventually they put it on charge and started it with some ether. (easy start over here).

Apparently again this was my fault. I now was incapable of starting an AC, despite having started probably a dozen different aircraft without issue in my flying career. And I deviated from my flight plan which earned me a dressing down upon returning after this delay left me unable to achieve my destination.

After this I swapped planes. And surprisingly, had no issues with starting. Not the service I was looking for.

On my final day, through no fault of my own, I was spoken to like a child and had no respect shown to me when I was in fact a customer. A very rude instructor.

In summation I would certainly encourage people to fly in Arizona, amazing airports, scenery, people and weather. America is an incredible experience and so cost effective. I would not however, encourage any person with something about them to use CAS. If you are low hours or don't feel confident then they would be perfect, they will hold your hand and keep you safe and you have no need to exceed your comfort zone, giving you good experience and loads of support. They will treat you like a student, perhaps as a flight school a difficult habit to get out of. Annoying when you're not a student.

If however your dream is to hire an aircraft and set off to discover America, which is perfectly possible due to the access you have to any airport, airspace, no PPR, no landing fees and fuel at almost every field, you will find CAS ludicrously restrictive and frustrating. Or end up ignoring them and doing it anyway.

[Zemer]

About safety pilot-
Does the EASA accept the full hours that I logged?
Let's assume that I flew 50cc hours (25PIC and 25 as s Safety pilot).
Can I use and log the all 50 hours?

Quote of the Law if there is- will be nice :)

Thanks !!

[jamesgrainge]

​​​​​​
No Easa only accepts Pic as P1 so make sure you get all your own hours.

[Zemer]

Hey, thanks!
Do you have a quote that support this say?

[bulldog89]

EASA FCL - Logging of flight time

[jamesgrainge]

Hey, thanks!
Do you have a quote that support this say?

It is the legal position of Easa. Discussed many hundreds of times on these pages.

You may accept it, or you may go and research the document for yourself, in order to reach the same conclusion.

[Maverick97]

Thanks for the in depth review. Myself and a few others have been looking at CAS and this is certainly something to bear in mind. However, I would be visiting as a fresh PPL holder therefore I would probably appreciate a little bit of guidance.

May I ask how your time was in Arizona in general? (Cost of living, vehicle rental, accommodation, any night flying?)

[Disco Penguin]

Any recommendations on hour building school around St. Pete's Florida?

[r10bbr]

Hi guys can someone recommend any flying schools or rentals in the San diego Area, im looking to do 100 hr of hour building, or if anyone has recently come back from the states can they recommend any schools excluding chandler air services..
regards

[RedDragonFlyer]

I'm interested in doing my hour building as cheaply as possible so I have been considering the US.

The problem is, I've done my PPL using a glass cockpit and will do future courses with glass cockpits too.

So, does anyone have any recommendations of places where I can hour build with a) good weather b) a reasonable price and c) a glass cockpit.

Thanks :)

[yap800]

Would be great to hear an update from some of you guys on here.

Have any of you guys on here managed to get flying jobs yet?

Have any of you given up or not been considered/had much luck looking for flying jobs after gaining you fATPL?

(Hope this doesn't derail the thread if it does please let me know and I'll remove it, but please then update me in a different thread as I'm really interested to see how well you guys have done) But a lot of people on this thread will be wondering how everyone is doing also so maybe it would help everyone to share how it went/ is going for you.

[kertenkele]

Could you please give some hour building fees and schools?

Flight safety!

[NWHeliPilot]

I'm curious, why so many people are looking for paid hour building in the USA instead of doing the FAA conversion and getting paid to build your hours.
I work for a flightschool that has a lot of international pilots, who work for 2 years after their training and go home with 1500h-1800h.

[Mav44]

NWhelipilot, how do you get the right to stay in the USA and work? I’m guessing you have a green card?

[dicorpo]

Does anyone know of a company that rents out aircraft to travel the states, either east or west coast? Would be great to build hours and see the US from the skies.

Any ideas or tips would be a great help, thanks!

[IDG77]

NWHeliPilot

Can you please elaborate more?
I just got the PPL(EASA) and I'm going to U.S one or to months to do the time building, if I wanna work there I would have to do the whole FAA program, work less than a year that's what the Visa allows, and then come back and start the EASA ATPL again.

[rudestuff]

I think that guy's confused about your motivation to build hours. Most people go to the US to build time to get their CPL back in Europe. Those are the ones you pay for. Some people choose to stay and build time afterwards as a flight instructor, at which point the money starts flowing the other way. There are no free hours before CFI. Unless you can legally work for an airline in the US there's no point in getting single engine time. (In the US you need 1500 hours to work for an airline which can be mostly single engine, in the EU you only need 200 hours. More hours won't help you much unfortunately although a lot of people seem to think they will.)

[rhysgittoes]

Close to finishing my PPL in Wales and looking to hour build in the USA for a few months - Looking at Chandler Air Service quite closely.

I've been advised it is much better to go with a few other keen pilots, and enjoy the hour build more - however in my position most of my mates aren't trying to be pilots.

Is anyone else in a similar position and would like to build hours with someone else?

Or does anyone know of any resources/websites for people to hour build together?

[mcww22]

Hi everyone,
New to this forum and just wanted some ideas from you guys!

Does anyone know of any good and reliable places in the USA for hours building (anywhere apart from West Coast)
I have spoken to 1 on 1 with a place in Miami, but after the call, I was disappointed with all the extra fees they tried to squeeze in which I knew weren't needed.

If anyone has any from memory or has used themselves I would appreciate it!!


p.s... if anyone also looking for hours building overseas is in the same boat send me a message!

------------------------------------------------

Until you have a posting history you don't have access to private messaging and adding urls. More chance of responses if you offer an email.

[FlyingIce]

I did 260 hours at flighttimebuilding.com and recomend that place 100%.
4 of my friends have been there to, Neil helped us with housing and a car while we where there.

[Kubus95]

FlyingIce I tried to send you a message, but your box is full. Here it is:
I’m currently working on Iceland and want to go to Florida to gain some hours towards my Cpl. Can you tell me why you and your friends specifically recommend this place? Was it possible to take plane for i.e week or two and fly it around Florida or Us? How was the maintenance and general condition of airplanes? How did you organise the payments for rent? Was it possible to do the checkride with them to convert license? Let me as much as you know from your experience.

Best regards,

Jakub

send me a message, please :)

[FlyingIce]

Says my inbox is full even though I only have one PM and I cant even reply to that because "Inbox is full".


First I went to a school in Ohio but there it took so long time to get an appointment with an FAA FSDO in Ohio (we booked the trip on a short notice and didn't have a long time to book the appointment) to verify my JAA license and get my FAA PPL based on my foreign license that I always had to fly with an instructor (cost alot more than planed).

I called Neil at flighttimebuilding.com and he said that he had an available plane and that he could get me an appointment for the verification of my license the next day, we drove down to Florida (from -25° to +25° C :D ) and the next day I had an appointment with a guy from FAA and got my license.
He got me flying right away with an instructor for a checkout on the plane and I was ready to go, Neil was so kind to even get us a house and a car for less than we paid for our rental car. I can't recomend this guy enough. I had the plane all for myself for 6 weeks so no need to book ahead of time and fight for few slots like bigger schools I have been to.

We are at least 8 guys here from Iceland that have done a lot of hours at that place.

[silverlik]

Says my inbox is full even though I only have one PM and I cant even reply to that because "Inbox is full".


First I went to a school in Ohio but there it took so long time to get an appointment with an FAA FSDO in Ohio (we booked the trip on a short notice and didn't have a long time to book the appointment) to verify my JAA license and get my FAA PPL based on my foreign license that I always had to fly with an instructor (cost alot more than planed).

I called Neil at flighttimebuilding.com and he said that he had an available plane and that he could get me an appointment for the verification of my license the next day, we drove down to Florida (from -25° to +25° C :D ) and the next day I had an appointment with a guy from FAA and got my license.
He got me flying right away with an instructor for a checkout on the plane and I was ready to go, Neil was so kind to even get us a house and a car for less than we paid for our rental car. I can't recomend this guy enough. I had the plane all for myself for 6 weeks so no need to book ahead of time and fight for few slots like bigger schools I have been to.

We are at least 8 guys here from Iceland that have done a lot of hours at that place.

Hi Flyingice !
Do you have any of Neil's contacts as his site is down at the moment? Thanks a mil !

[Kubus95]

silverlik

[email protected]
+1 386 235 6226

his site is down from time to time, no idea why. Those are the contacts i used when I rented a plane from him in Decmeber’22. He replies also on WhatsApp :)