Swimmers Deploying from Gannets, no 'chute?

[Agaricus bisporus]

I've just had an interesting conversation with a very down to earth ex CPO Diver (Special Forces was mentioned) who told me they used to jump from Gannets with no parachute, carrying but not wearing fins. He was in the Andrew 1960 - 1986.

Anyone care to elaborate on this procedure - it didn't sound like a leg-pull but you never know?

[4mastacker]

Did he tell you he was also a Marine Underwater Fire Fighting diver as well?

[NutherA2]

jump from Gannets with no parachutePerhaps a word got lost in translation and the divers used to jump from Gannet's (HMS Gannet at Prestwick) helicopters with no parachute?

[BOAC]

I believe they had a 100% attrition rate.

[MPN11]

"Fitted for, but not equipped with …" :cool:

Sounds an exceptionally dubious tale to me. i'm sure if that was achievable safely, the Seals or a similar US outfit would have made a TV show about it long ago. The water impact speed would inevitably be well in excess of 100 mph <defers to experts on minimum safe flying speed for a Fairey Gannet> and be almost certainly fatal.

Bribe him with a few more beers … and get him to tell you about abseiling onto the Radfan from a Hunter drop-tank.

[Canadian Break]

Just asked the question of a mate who I absolutely know was there and did that sort of thing - I will keep you posted on his answer. CB

[Wander00]

Cannot see Lo.... Na... doing it - but if opportunity had been there bet he would have tried it!

[Pontius Navigator]

Ask him how many jumped at the same time.

[Rosevidney1]

The stalling speed of the Gannet under approach power, flaps down and at light weight is 70 - 75 kts for Marks 1,2,4 & 5.
The bulbous and unlovely AEW 3 (which was unlikely to be used for such fantastic schemes) stalled at 80 kts on approach power, similar conditions.
It should be pointed out that under those conditions there was no aerodynamic warning. When it stalled it was sudden. :eek:

[Wensleydale]

They probably used the Irish Parachute Regiment technique. They didn't pull their ripcord until 10 feet above the ground - if the chute didn't open then they could always jump those last 10 feet without injury.:ok:

[FJJP]

Sounds like Walter Mitty to me. Perhaps a few more beers will have him jumping out of Concord at Mach 1.2 to rescue troops in Sierra Leone...

[Archimedes]

There is always the possibility that he's getting his aircraft mixed up... Although difficult for the hardened Ppruner to believe, some people can't tell their ARES from their Belslow, and the chap might have confused the (say)Whirlwind and the Gannet. On one ACSC Realities of Conflict phase a veteran who had undoubtedly been there, done that, worn the T-shirt with court mounted DSO and MC (IIRC) caused some momentary but easily- rectified confusion when talking about the rotor blades of a Valetta becoming entangled in a Malayan tree...

[barnstormer1968]

Perhaps the lack of wearing fins is the clue here.
Maybe he used to jump over land, and only needed the fins for later :)

I suppose many posters may find it hard to believe that jumpers exited airliners at high speed and in commercial air lanes, but that happened too.

The mention of a hunters drop tank reminded me of the pod designed for the Harrier wing!

[dragartist]

yes they used a modified stingray torpedo a bit like the containers they dropped at Arnhem. The propeller ran in reverse to offer retardation during the decent. and then switched into forward a bit like some of those devices used by Smirsh in Thunderball!

I remember seeing the Harrier pod proposals. It may even have been in Flight International, probably mid 80s (post Falklands).

I think there may also have been proposals for seats on a pallet extracted out the back of a Hercules like ULLA - (AA62 will confirm - he loves ULLA!) I may be getting confused as this may have been a Russian proposal I saw in a TS Int brief.

The files from MAP12 of the era will have been properly archived and easily be retrieved. They will all have been declassified by now!

I'll get mi coat

[MPN11]

Hmmm …

Exint pod - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exint_pod)

Ju-87 Stuka (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?20390-Ju-87-Stuka&p=260572#post260572)

Box on … :cool:

[Mogwi]

I was asked by a "special" chap on Hermes in '82 if we could modify a SHAR 100 gall drop tank to take a bod with a parachute. The idea was to use a LOFT profile to insert said brave chasp, who would separate from modified tank and pull his cord at some time during the 30 sec ballistic flight and float gently to earth.

I laughed and went to the bar whilst he unfortunately boarded a Wobbletop that had an appointment with a wandering albatross.

Swing the lamp and thank god for those with fertile minds.

[barnstormer1968]

Harrier pod

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx9/barnstormer1968/5d7c846eaf0b2ec6c81db84ffb3dd874.jpg

[barnstormer1968]

Not seen this pic before. Maybe claustro-pod would be more appropriate

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx9/barnstormer1968/89855ea83b6fcb3d484d2dae20ce84fc.jpg

[clicker]

Ye gods, must take a while to get into that outside loo. :hmm:

[Pontius Navigator]

If landing on, just hope he remembered the wheels.

[4ROCK]

For those that consider Drones a tad 'unsporting' this must surely be the perfect antidote - real warfare fought with blokes stuck up tubes.......!!

[TBM-Legend]

Russian troops jumped off aircraft without chutes during WW2....:eek:

[VX275]

Not quite a Gannet over the ogin but in the early 80's I did see some chaps jumping from a low (very low) flying Islander without parachutes at RAF Henlow. At the time we thought it was stuntmen practicing for a film, using an aeroplane instead of a train because that's what it looked like, a leap and tumble followed by standing up and walking away.
As I said we thought they were stuntmen but I suppose they could have been from Hereford.

[Al R]

Didn't the Russians bimble about at lowspeed and altitude looking for fluffy snowdrifts - you wouldn't be happy would you? The film from about the 3'00" onwards is quite funny - I can't believe those 1920s jumpers were allowed to sit on the fuselage and wings without dayglo bibs.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KknxKhqRC_U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKknxKhqRC_U

[stilton]

I don't see the problem, you could fit a dozen crack North Korean troops in one of those pods, and they'd be sitting cross legged cooking their noodles awaiting orders from Kim..

[just another jocky]

Russian troops jumped off aircraft without chutes during WW2....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

I recall a tale of 2 Saudis jumping from the back of a Herc after GW1, 'chuteless.

But that's a different story. :eek:

[gr4techie]

Wasn't there a Russian air stewardess who survived falling from 33,000 feet? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulović

Made of hard stuff these Russians.

I once met a para who reckons he did a jump and his chutes failed to deploy properly, he claimed he survived as he hit a peat bog at an angle and ricochet off like one of those bouncing bombs that 617 keep on harping on about 70 years later. I took what he said with a pinch of salt (and the para too).

[goudie]

A Lancaster rear gunner was reputed to have jumped from his burning plane minus a 'chute. He landed in a snow drift relatively unharmed. His German captors, at first didn't believe him but eventually verified his claim.

[Union Jack]

A Lancaster rear gunner ....

His, and other fall survivors' stories, are accessible through "See Also" in GR4's link above.

Jack

[Wander00]

Goudie - that was Sgt Alkemade - link Nicholas Alkemade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Alkemade)

[teeteringhead]

Was there not also a Russian hostie who survived a midair breakup by landing in snow??

[Edited to add: Memory still sometimes works! She was Vesna Vulović (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87), a Serb not a Roosian. Pretty close 'though ....

It's an interesting read anyway - originally thought to have been a "terrorist" bomb that went off at 30 000 ft, now thoughts are it may have been a low(er) level blue-on-blue (orange-on-orange??) by AAA.

And Wiki mentions others which have their own articles - including Alkemade:

Fall survivors

Ivan Chisov, Soviet Airforce lieutenant who fell from his aircraft in 1942

Alan Magee, American, World War II airman who survived a 22,000-foot (6,700 m) fall from his damaged B-17 in 1943

Nicholas Alkemade, British Lancaster crewman who fell from his burning aircraft in 1944

Juliane Koepcke, sole survivor of LANSA Flight 508 who fell for two miles into the Amazon rainforest

[ORAC]

I did a free fall parachute course in Dhekalia in Cyprus in 1977. The drop aircraft was flown by the instructor from the Larnaka Flying Club, an old Romanian who had flown Me-109s for the Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front in the Ukraine.

He claimed that they didn't give him a parachute and one one occasion, with a short up aircraft he survived by trimming straight and level just over a plain of wheat, climbing onto the wing holding the stick then rolling off the back in a ball. He said the wheat slowed his forward speed and he got away with just bad bruising and skin burns.

[ShotOne]

A bit of a stretch, surely the parachute was, in effect, part of the seat.?..unless they replaced them with cushions to ensure sufficient moral fibre!

[redsetter]

On a similar subject, I don't suppose anyone can shed any light on the following ? The Schedule of Work for Larkhill Range, 1961 has an RAE Mech Eng Dept task entitled: "Live man drops from high level at night. Canberra aircraft". I know the Dept used a bomb-bay container to carry and release dummy men, but live ones ... ?

[Rosevidney1]

In the late 1960s I knew an ex-Para Reg who claimed to have made 'descents' from all 3 types of V bomber and from the Canberra over the Irish Sea. He certainly had photographs of himself wearing parachutes on the ground with these types. His name was Michael Pearce from Marazion.

[Pontius Navigator]

Was there not also a Russian hostie who survived a midair breakup by landing in snow??

There was an F4 crew who, in all probability, were saved by landing on a snow covered hillside. They did a high speed ejection outside seat parameters and glissaded down the slop. The freezing snow also served to staunch bleeding and aided survival.

I think one took holy orders not sure about the nav. Circa 1987.

[Shackman]

Sorry - wrong thread

[Wander00]

PN - Nav was ISTR SW - his then wife a flt cdr with me at Cranwell. May have been slightly earlier than 87 but willing to be corrected.

[Satellite_Driver]

Yes, the nav would have been SW. He was rebranched to Fighter Control and was a controller at Staxton Wold in the early '90s when I was an EngO there. Thoroughly nice chap who had made an amazing recovery from appalling injuries.

[MAINJAFAD]

I recall a tale of 2 Saudis jumping from the back of a Herc after GW1, 'chuteless. Anything to do with the two in question reporting a successful low level attack over Iraq, Only for a Hornet Pilot to report that they actually attacked a patch of water in the Gulf?

[The B Word]

No need to be secretive, it's all here and both have since retired:

Aircraft accident in the Pennines area. (http://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/aircraft/planes/dales/xv434.html)

[Union Jack]

Memory still sometimes works!

But should have gone to Specsavers?:ouch:

Jack

[ralphmalph]

My old man was the LM who picked up the guys near Buckden Pike.

Went for a walk to find the crash site years later....not the most hospitable.

If I remember correctly the Nav had an impact through a snow drift up against a dry stone wall....almost head first.

He said he was amazed they both survived.

Some days it's not your day!

[teeteringhead]

Memory still sometimes works!

But should have gone to Specsavers? ..... doh!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[devsan]

iv seen them exit a very low herc in swanage bay near poole

[The Oberon]

Getting out of the water can be fun too. There is a debate as to who this actually is, doesn't really matter, not something I would be capable of.

Chinook CH-47 Helicopter Picks up US Navy Seals Team Assault Boat Water Extraction on Rear Door Ramp - YouTube

[500N]

The Oberon

"There is a debate as to who this actually is, doesn't really matter, not something I would be capable of."

Where is the debate ?

Who do you think it is ?


Seems similar to driving a Zodiac onto a Landing craft which is all about timing !!! Was a good entry. Would have loved to have tried it.

[Herod]

Or a mini into the back of a removal van.

[500N]

At least the removal van doesn't move up and down like the back of a ship.

That Chinook ramp was quite stable, a lot harder in heavier seas states
or even mild sea states. Well, that is what I found anyway.

[airborne_artist]

devsan iv seen them exit a very low herc in swanage bay near poole

800' ASL on a static line drop. Not that low, and if you could see them it wasn't dark. Real drops are at night :ok:

[dragartist]

There is a film around of GMcQ doing a 200ft LLP drop into a Lake in Wales. Not sure if it is in the public domain. This was before the LLRP so the reserve would probably not have been viable.

[Canadian Break]

AB - can you come up with the name of the guy you talked with? I have just talked to an old oppo of mine who was a senior clearance diver in the Andrew who cinfirmed that this "sort of stuff" went on just before he joined as a young occifer and wondered if you had a name - this apparently would add veracity (or not as the case may be) to the story. CB

[VX275]

There is a film around of GMcQ doing a 200ft LLP drop into a Lake in Wales. Not sure if it is in the public domain. This was before the LLRP so the reserve would probably not have been viable.

It was France not Wales and some of the chaps jumped without reserves correctly arguing that at that height they would just be usless baggage.
It was also fun answering calls from senior officers demanding to be part of the jump by telling them. "Sorry but we've got all the sergeant PJIs we need."

[Agaricus bisporus]

I'll find out his name, sure. I'm well enough used to naval dits and this just didn't sound like one. He had no need to impress or bullshyte, he knew I was ex RN aircrew, he identified the Gannet as "the one with two propellors going in opposite directions" and stated the drop speed as 85mph.
Despite all the ridicule on this thread I'm still inclined to believe there is more to this story than an ex diver trying to baffle an ex waffoo. We'll see.

[Canadian Break]

AB - straight from the horse's mouth (sorry to call you a horse WC!)

"Primed with sufficient quantities of rum these jokers would jump out of the back of anything."

More than that I cannot say, other than I believe this source is unimpeachable (I think that's what I am trying to say)! :E.

[BOAC]

I'm still waiting to find out:-
a) Where the brave chaps sit en-route
b) If 'inside', how they got out.

Not holding my breath (or my nose..............)

[Davef68]

500N,

I beleive the debate is that these are actually British troops and the Chinook is an RAF one.