PDA

View Full Version : Spirit Airlines Emergency Return DFW


LongBeachTrijet
16th Oct 2013, 20:14
Spirit Airlines flight in Texas gives passengers a terrible scare - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57607718/spirit-airlines-flight-in-texas-gives-passengers-a-terrible-scare/)

Kudos to the crew.

Lonewolf_50
16th Oct 2013, 21:04
Maybe this drama queen dressed in a man's clothing will be calmed down when his wife mixes his some warm milk and wraps him up in his special blankie. I refer to passenger who spoke with the media.

I'd be interested to hear what the CC had to say about smoke in the cabin, and how all of that went down as they all returned to DFW.

underfire
16th Oct 2013, 21:50
uncontained engine faliure...I would say that is an exciting event!

"An engine on an Atlanta-bound Spirit Airlines jet where passengers said they heard an explosion and saw flames sustained an especially serious type of failure, a National Transportation Safety Board official said Wednesday.

The official told The Associated Press that it was an "uncontained" engine failure, meaning broken pieces and parts of the engine escaped the outer engine housing. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly."

tdracer
16th Oct 2013, 22:27
Not all uncontained engine failures created equal :}

It can mean anything from a few low energy blade pieces making through the cowling to a 1/3rd fan disc trying to cut the airplane in two :eek:

BTW, anyone know which engine Spirit uses on their A320s?

Lonewolf_50
16th Oct 2013, 23:02
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly."
Then maybe said official ought to shut the **** up. :mad:

td: good point on "all are not equal" as I review the A380 incident with Qantas. Back to the core point: flight deck crew gets a thumbs up. :ok:

mary meagher
16th Oct 2013, 23:31
how many incidents now for cowlings not properly fastened?

would this possibly relate to the recent BA problem at LHR?

tipo158
17th Oct 2013, 01:43
BTW, anyone know which engine Spirit uses on their A320s?


From the AP story in the Seattle Times:
"The V2500 engines on Spirit’s fleet are supplied by International Aero Engines, a consortium led by Pratt & Whitney."

bubbers44
17th Oct 2013, 02:52
I've had emergency returns to MIA in a B757 with smoke fumes throughout the airplane and it was no big deal. This probably wasn't either.

jrj57
17th Oct 2013, 03:12
We use the IAE V2500 on all our A319,320, and 321's.

deSitter
17th Oct 2013, 03:36
Uh, any time an engine blows up and flames decorate the sky, it's puckerable, no?

Capn Bloggs
17th Oct 2013, 04:19
Maybe this drama queen dressed in a man's clothing will be calmed down
Didn't sound like a drama queen to me. I haven't had one yet, but I imagine an uncontained failure a few metres from your seat would get your attention, even if you were tough as nails.

PeterTG
17th Oct 2013, 05:02
I wonder what part of turn off all electronic devices Casey Rogers and the other passengers did not understand. :ugh:

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2013, 07:22
uncontained engine faliure...I would say that is an exciting event!

"An engine on an Atlanta-bound Spirit Airlines jet where passengers said they heard an explosion and saw flames sustained an especially serious type of failure, a National Transportation Safety Board official said Wednesday.

The official told The Associated Press that it was an "uncontained" engine failure, meaning broken pieces and parts of the engine escaped the outer engine housing. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly."An uncontained failure on a engine that's as ubiquitous as the V2500 is extremely worrying.

But I'd be interested to know who was actually manning the NTSB yesterday - most of their staff have been furloughed due to the federal budget shenanigans.

Possibly the "official" doesn't want to be identified because diagnosing engine failure modes is outside his comfort zone ?

MrDuck
17th Oct 2013, 09:07
Did y'all see the video? Quite apart from the engine self disassembly there is the whole thing of fire right outside your window. The cabin is illuminated by fire, folks. Or is that routine in your experience?

Not that the flames are as bad as the engine bits going in various directions, but really - I don't think this is a drama queen here. I dare to say most of us would find that unnerving. I doubt the flight crew had as good a view as the folks in the back.

It appears they handled it very well.

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2013, 10:37
Quite apart from the engine self disassembly there is the whole thing of fire right outside your window. The cabin is illuminated by fire, folks.Official NTSB statement does not confirm at this stage whether the failure was in fact uncontained, only that it was reported to them as such:

""I can only confirm that we had a report of an uncontained engine failure and that we have recalled investigative staff to initiate an investigation," the NTSB said in a statement."

Engine failure on Spirit Airlines plane under investigation by U.S. safety officials | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/17/us-usa-spirit-emergencylanding-idUSBRE99G00620131017)

An engine failure doesn't have to be uncontained to be spectacular:

http://www.jacdec.de/fotos/news/2013-06-24_G-OMYT_A332_TCX@EGCC_small2.jpg

MrDuck
17th Oct 2013, 14:11
Granted, it is a youtube video, making this a rumour, I guess?

Official: Jet had 'uncontained' engine failure - YouTube

In a couple of shots it sure looks like you can see shredded top of wing.
If as stated the video is off this flight then doesn't this qualify as "uncontained"?

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2013, 15:01
There's a youtube video I can't figure out how to post a link to that shows what appears to be extra aluminum sticking up in the airstream from the top of the wing, not as built. Hole in wing would mean "uncontained", yes? Just cut-and-paste the URL into your post.

underfire
17th Oct 2013, 15:27
I dont see any images/videos of the port side of the aircraft...

barit1
17th Oct 2013, 16:25
I've experienced many "non-linear" events in engine tests. They are always exciting.

And I defy any pax not halfpissed, upon witnessing an uncontained failure outside his window, to refrain from calling it an "explosion". :eek:

And per the certification rules, uncontained failures are specified as/required to be "extremely rare", because the energy in the released fragments can be very harmful. The QF A380 is the recent poster child, but not the worst case. The 1989 Sioux City UAL DC-10 may be the worst domestic case.

Ian W
17th Oct 2013, 16:59
I've experienced many "non-linear" events in engine tests. They are always exciting.

And I defy any pax not halfpissed, upon witnessing an uncontained failure outside his window, to refrain from calling it an "explosion". :eek:

And per the certification rules, uncontained failures are specified as/required to be "extremely rare", because the energy in the released fragments can be very harmful. The QF A380 is the recent poster child, but not the worst case. The 1989 Sioux City UAL DC-10 may be the worst domestic case.

This one was none to pleasant either:

"On July 6, 1996, at 1424 central daylight time,1 a McDonnell Douglas MD-88, N927DA, operated by Delta Air Lines Inc., as flight 1288, experienced an engine failure during the initial part of its takeoff roll on runway 17 at Pensacola Regional Airport (PNS) in Pensacola, Florida. Uncontained engine debris from the front compressor front hub (fan hub) of the No. 1 (left) engine penetrated the left aft fuselage. Two passengers were killed, and two others were seriously injured. The takeoff was rejected, and the airplane was stopped on the runway."

http://www.airsafe.com/events/reports/delta-pensacola-1996-final.pdf

lomapaseo
17th Oct 2013, 17:17
I take it that we still don't know for sure what happened to either the engine nor the aircraft from the standpoint of mechanical damage.

I assume the pilots just followed their standard procedures for a report of smoke in the cabin along with abnormal engine symptoms.

Understandable that the SLF in the back seeing the flash of flame out an engine along with the bang and then smoke in the cabin are going to be scared. I'm not sure that any experts have confirmed the degree of uncontained whether it be through the side of the engine or chewed up bits out the front or back airstream of the engine.

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2013, 17:35
the degree of uncontained whether it be through the side of the engine or chewed up bits out the front or back airstream of the engineThough hot end parts exiting via the tailpipe aren't classed as an "uncontained" failure.

SKYbrary - Uncontained Engine Failure (http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Uncontained_Engine_Failure)

VFD
17th Oct 2013, 17:44
It is unusual these days that somewhere someone has not released a picture of the damage to the engine and/or aircraft and pylon if any.

Understandable that the SLF in the back seeing the flash of flame out an engine along with the bang and then smoke in the cabin are going to be scared
According to the passenger interviewed on NBC is was a near death experience. The plane shook so hard when the engine "exploded" that the passenger had trouble for a few seconds pushing the correct letters so she could text on her phone.

barit1
17th Oct 2013, 21:19
DaveReidUK:

Though hot end parts exiting via the tailpipe aren't classed as an "uncontained" failure.

Not everyone in the business will agree with this distinction. Parts blown out the tailpipe present a real hazard to the tailplane; particularly to hydraulic etc. systems inside the stab LE. :ouch:

underfire
17th Oct 2013, 21:38
It is unusual these days that somewhere someone has not released a picture of the damage to the engine and/or aircraft and pylon if any.

The US has just re-opened, so give it a few days...

The news today is that VivaAerobus will order 40 A320's with PW motors...

(Same person who set up Ryanair set up this airline)

DaveReidUK
17th Oct 2013, 22:43
Not everyone in the business will agree with this distinction.The NTSB does, though.

Statement today:

"The NTSB has an investigator on the scene at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport inspecting and documenting the engine, an International Aero Engines (IAE) V2500, which has now been removed from the airplane.

As a result of the initial inspection, it was determined that the engine failure was contained, meaning it did not penetrate the engine casing."

bubbers44
18th Oct 2013, 01:15
Contained engine failure should be handled fine with appropriate checklist. The passengers might have seen what pilots couldn't. They deal with what they know.

MrDuck
18th Oct 2013, 02:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck
In a couple of shots it sure looks like you can see shredded top of wing. If as stated the video is off this flight then doesn't this qualify as "uncontained"?


Hey Duck, not wanting to sound condescending, but do an engine-number check on the A319 for me.


got it, hence deleted my post. news video of the story had clips intermingled of the Quantas Spirit, likely to show what an uncontained incident looks like. While I did not apply anything like adequate comprehension I suspect many viewers would have seen that story and thought they were seeing the incident aircraft. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Minimbah
18th Oct 2013, 06:20
Come ON guys! They You Tube video was not this flight, it was the Qantas A380 incident. Take another look!

llagonne66
18th Oct 2013, 07:02
NTSB Investigating Engine Failure Aboard Spirit Airlines Flight 165

Oct. 17, 2013
The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating Tuesday’s engine failure on a Spirit Airlines Airbus A319, which was flying from Dallas to Atlanta when the event occurred.
The NTSB has an investigator on the scene at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport inspecting and documenting the engine, an International Aero Engines (IAE) V2500, which has now been removed from the airplane.
As a result of the initial inspection, it was determined that the engine failure was contained, meaning it did not penetrate the engine casing.
The engine will be shipped to a separate facility for a detailed examination and disassembly. IAE, the Federal Aviation Administration, and Spirit Airlines are parties to the investigation.
The NTSB has also secured the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder from Spirit Flight 165. The recorders are being brought back to Washington, DC for readout and analysis.

Contact Information

Office of Public Affairs
490 L'Enfant Plaza, SW
Washington, DC 20594

Eric M. Weiss
(202) 314-6100
[email protected]

deadcut
18th Oct 2013, 08:09
Those reporters don't even try anymore do they?

"Airbus A319"........... shows Qantas A380 in the video.

barit1
18th Oct 2013, 17:28
First we have an uncontained failure, and then we don't.

To any technician observing, I should think this determination could be made in less than a minute - I'd expect 5 - 10 seconds even - and that determination would remain unchallenged through the final report. The evidence will be so blatant, there will be no reason to doubt.

But now we have the NTSB waffling on the question. What is going on here???

DaveReidUK
18th Oct 2013, 17:49
But now we have the NTSB waffling on the question. What is going on here???Leaving aside the unauthorised, unattributable, off-the-record statement made by whoever was minding the shop at the NTSB while the investigators were furloughed, the only reference to an uncontained failure was when they acknowledged that they had "received a report" of one.

That they had received such a report was true. The report, though, wasn't.

I would imagine that, as you surmise, very little time elapsed between the NTSB investigator actually seeing the engine for the first time, and his relaying back to HQ that it had been a contained failure.

underfire
18th Oct 2013, 19:35
It is a bit strange that there are still no images of the engine...

VFD
19th Oct 2013, 00:10
It is a bit strange that there are still no images of the engine...

I thought that strange as well, so we are going to assume that the failure was somewhat spectacular but being contained there must of not been much to see.
Somewhere I read the engine is already off the airframe and a new one being installed.

bubbers44
19th Oct 2013, 01:29
We had an Airbus 300 have an engine fire after takeoff at San Juan and the fire burned through the fire detector loop making the engine fire light go out so they landed with an engine on fire. A mechanic in back told the FA the engine was on fire but they landed with it running causing a lot of grief to the FO causing major problems with him. I know the captain who was on that flight. They dealt with what they saw on their panel, not looking out a passenger window. Let him rest in peace.

lomapaseo
19th Oct 2013, 02:19
We had an Airbus 300 have an engine fire after takeoff at San Juan and the fire burned through the fire detector loop making the engine fire light go out so they landed with an engine on fire. A mechanic in back told the FA the engine was on fire but they landed with it running causing a lot of grief to the FO causing major problems with him. I know the captain who was on that flight. They dealt with what they saw on their panel, not looking out a passenger window. Let him rest in peace.

Had they looked out the window I doubt they would have seen very much as the fire was on the outer side.

http://fromtheflightdeck.com/MEL/PPRune/A300%20SJU%20Fire.jpg

bubbers44
19th Oct 2013, 06:16
That is why I said passenger window because the cockpit window would have not shown it. It was too far back to see.

DaveReidUK
19th Oct 2013, 06:25
Somewhere I read the engine is already off the airframe and a new one being installed.The NTSB statement (see post #26) referred to the engine having been removed from the aircraft for inspection, as one would expect.

fdcg27
19th Oct 2013, 20:43
While I doubt that anyone who knows me would refer to me as a drama queen dressed in a man's clothes, I don't think that seeing flames coming from an engine of a plane that I was on would give me warm fuzzies, and I doubt that the crew was entirely sanguine either.
I do know that I'd not speak to the media on camera.
Been there, done that, ended up looking like a twit, although the brief interview didn't involve aviation.
You see, they edit the shoot as they see fit for the evening news, so they can easily make anyone look like a twit, except for those who've either had the experience or who've had the benefit of professional coaching.
Good outcome for all, though. Nobody injured and the aircraft not harmed. Good work by the crew.

Desert185
20th Oct 2013, 17:45
The reportage on this once again illustrates that the dumbing down of America is progressing nicely. :ugh:

underfire
21st Oct 2013, 14:59
Looks like Spirit did a heck of a job 'containing' this.

mach2.6
24th Oct 2013, 21:17
Several press outlets reporting system wide delays due to overnight engine inspections fleet wide. Maybe somebody knows something.
Overnight aircraft inspections delay Spirit flights - South Florida Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2013/10/24/aircraft-inspections-delay-spirit.html)

VFD
24th Oct 2013, 23:39
Maybe somebody knows something
I would not doubt there is some what of an educated guess as to the cause of the failure even in the preliminary part of the investigation.

I think I would be more concerned if Spirit did not take a proactive approach.

The engine type has had some failures in the past that had been addressed we just do not know if this is a new problem or the previous directives did not completely resolve the previous problem.