Qlink to Cobham: If you can't beat em, join em?

[-_HowUdoiN_-]

Has there been anyone from Qlink that has joined Cobham recently, specifically the NJS B717 contract for Qlink and would be happy to post or PM me their experience whether good or bad? Is there anyone at Qlink thinking of going to Cobham?

Also if there are any current drivers able to describe what the mood is like with all the base expansions and new equipment coming?

And if someone could also answer these questions I have:

What are the chances of getting Brisbane FO basing?

Do you currently get Qantas staff travel? What is the priority?

How many sims do you do a year? Where is/are the sim(s) located?

How many hours flying/duty per roster? Overnights?

What are the requirements for Command? Roughly how long have people been with the company that have just been upgraded?


Any answers, constructive posts or general career advise would be highly welcomed, however there are plenty of other threads to have a general Qlink or Cobham bashing. :ok:


It seems if your dream was to one day fly a jet, you gotta apply to companies that operate jets... who knew... :ugh: Just want some info to make an informed decision.

[Going Nowhere]

BNE Base? Probably 0% chance.

A few BNE-based QLink crew applied and were given a base in DRW/HBA/CBA and most so far have declined.

[Capt Claret]

And if someone could also answer these questions I have:


What are the chances of getting Brisbane FO basing?
Do you currently get Qantas staff travel? What is the priority?
How many sims do you do a year? Where is/are the sim(s) located?
How many hours flying/duty per roster? Overnights?
What are the requirements for Command? Roughly how long have people been with the company that have just been upgraded?
It seems if your dream was to one day fly a jet, you gotta apply to companies that operate jets... who knew... Just want some info to make an informed decision.


1. Improbable in the short term but not impossible.

2. Yes after qualifying period. I don't think there is a lower priority.

3. Twice annually, two consecutive days, 4 hours per session. Sim is at Alteon Centre near the old BNE Intl terminal.

4. Depends upon base, from almost no overnights to almost every trip being overnight. Hours also vary with base.

5. 5000 total, 500 IFR PIC, 1500 > 5700 kg, 1000 jet > 15000 kg. 5 years or less for some.

6. It has never been any different.

[airdualbleedfault]

Howudoin, you could try Network, better staff travel, worse aircraft, similar or better time to command, only Perth base at present, less money I believe but supposedly improving, wholly owned subsidiary

[travelator]

Claret, cobham have the lowest possible on load priority and not upgradable. Expect everybody else to get on before you but still not impossible to use.

[-_HowUdoiN_-]

Thankyou CC and GN for the replies and also those for the PM's. Very much appreciated and good to see all constructive comments thus far!

Thanks also airdualbleedfault for the advice, I have considered Network and it is not off the table completely, probably the only couple of things swaying my thoughts would be they only have a Perth base, so no chance of getting to the east coast, and having had a look at the F100 and B717 on the inside I do have to say the 71 looks like a nicer bit of kit (personal preference i guess).

Although there is the argument that flying a jet is flying a jet, doesn't really matter what it looks like, and I do hear a rumour that network could be getting some nicer equipment... I wonder if there is anyone in the know that would like to confirm it?...:E

[bodybag]

"Is there anyone at Qlink thinking of going to Cobham?"

The issue that your going to have is that Cobham would not employ the MAJORITY of the pilots at Qlink. Cobham have relatively high standards compared to Qlink.

You don't get to just "think of it" and then "make an informed decision". You'll still have to be selected.. which my friend (based on the way you write your post) you will struggle with a great deal.. (even with all that valuable dash time!!!)

[airdualbleedfault]

Howudoin, by all counts the McBoeing is a far better bit of kit than the FTruck, that said the Fokker is no 146 (in a good way)
My source at Notwork tells me that bigger equipment is on the cards which is completely logical considering they are using mainline NGs on 2 of the contracts, so it would almost certainly be Airbus. Of course, not everything QF do is logical.
An east coast base for them is also a strong possibility down the track

[Buttscratcher]

Doesn't Alliance operate a few mine contracts out of BNE for Qantas/Network at the moment?
I heard the rumour at QF that Network were getting some older 320s from Jet*
Dunno tho, didn't pay much attention at the time

[Fuel-Off]

Butts...no...

Alliance is only providing F100s on wet lease for the Emerald, Rocky and Mackay RPT routes (which apparently is wrapping up as the new Q400s arrive) The 717s and F100s are being used on those routes out of Brisbane while all the Dash 8s are redeployed on their 20 flights/day to Moranbah and 17+ flights/day to Roma. Network isn't the only charter airline in the Group ;)

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Capt Claret]

G'day Travelator, didn't I say that but in less words? :}

[Buttscratcher]

Ah so, thanks Fueler, I'm way off again, my bad

[Fonz121]

The issue that your going to have is that Cobham would not employ the MAJORITY of the pilots at Qlink. Cobham have relatively high standards compared to Qlink.

Is this guy ^ for real?

[captain69]

Go NJS, save a spot for me.

Capt 69

[Berealgetreal]

I assume left seat is your goal or you would be applying for Majors. In which case you are one of the few that have worked out the numbers.

[Fuel-Off]

The issue that your going to have is that Cobham would not employ the MAJORITY of the pilots at Qlink. Cobham have relatively high standards compared to Qlink

So having said that bodybags, Cobham's high standards would leave the company incident free? All those pesky faux pas recently where the drivers have entered the wrong weights into the FMS and consequently got a stick shaker into Alice...twice! Or that rejected take off out of Perth recently because again, the incorrect weights were entered and an incorrect V1 was spat out. Less said about the impact crater in Darwin the better...

Hell, QLink has had its fair share of faux pas too...but we certainly don't think ourselves as any better because we're the wholly owned subsidiary. Pull your head in and put away the pork ruler bodybags. We all fly in the same sky.

The problem here is ladies and germs is that in order to move on up in the industry in this country now is to resign and employed by another entity who coincidentally flies the same coloured tail! Years of service count for naught, seniority shot to buggery when we've got this Americanised system of corporate Australia every slowly wrapping it's tentacles around the necks of the 99% who work for a living.

Fuel-Off :ok:

[DeafStar]

And let's not forget the Darwin Hammer. Bodybags is a bad troll.

[AviatoR21]

That's probably why mainline do not wish to allow Cobham to wear QF uniforms unlike SSA and EEA pilots! Just a joke.

[travelator]

The problem here is ladies and germs is that in order to move on up in the industry in this country now is to resign and employed by another entity who coincidentally flies the same coloured tail!

Same tail or otherwise, when has this ever not been the case for SSA/EAA? If you want to fly a jet, get a job with a jet operator, don't wait for one to be dropped into your lap.

I understand what you are saying now claret. I don't think there is a lower priority. than cobham.

[who_cares]

If you are looking to move on from Qlink, why not also look at Jetconnect, at least it's a 737 rating

[RENURPP]

The issue that your going to have is that Cobham would not employ the MAJORITY of the pilots at Qlink. Cobham have relatively high standards compared to Qlink.
Is this guy ^ for real?

I work for Cobham and I suspect/hope bodybags doesn't. (TROLL) If he does I apologise on behalf of all the people who work there for such a stupid and baseless comment.

I certainly hope I don't have to sit next to him/her.

[Mach E Avelli]

Bodybag is obviously superior to all those guys and gals flying with the turboprop regionals who have thousands of hours of incident-free flying and plenty of sim and line checks passed without problems. Give that man a cigar.

Plenty people got "under the wire" at the likes of Cobham in the days before they had formal selection processes. I, for one, was one. These days I don't reckon I could pass a modern, formal selection process. In that admission, I would not be Robinson Crusoe. The whole issue of latter day selection processes and whether they really do get the best people for the job is a subject on its own.

But (Allah be praised for He looks after the infirm, unwise and incompetent), I still pass my check rides. As do most others in all local airlines, so either Australian standards are low everywhere - including Cobham - or most of us may just be a bit better than Bodybag realises.

PS: I am not seeking a job at Cobham and don't fly for a Regional.

[Southern handler]

Alliance also operate the QantasLink sector ADL to Olympic Dam

[dizzylizzy]

Isn't that purely a codeshare to encourage feeder pax to use QF svc's?

[KRUSTY 34]

Well said Mach'.

From what I've seen of various airline "Selection" processes over the years, you could fill an encyclopedia with what these clever, socially expert, late' sipping HR types, don't know about aviation!

[Afterburner1]

The other problem these days is that a lot of people who have interviews get interview coaching where they are told exactly what they should say and how they should say it. This means that the HR folk hear exactly what they want to hear and people who shouldn't even be at the controls of a c152 slip through the cracks and find themselves at the controls of an airliner.....

[bodybag]

I honestly didn't mean to upset people. I'm not a "bad troll"!!
In some ways my response was aimed at cutting down the expectation of many of today's younger pilots. Aspire to achieve the best you can.. but excercise caution in expecting everything.. (you are far from highly qualified even if you are a Qlink Captain).
I have been involved in initial sim training for candidates with both employers. I'm telling you.. Qlink will nurture you through. Most will get through (almost every single candidate).
Cobham will cut you early if they have the slightest concern about your performance.
Simple as that.
In summary.. I believe Cobham have a far higher general standard because it's a company that you don't just simply hang around at if your below par. You don't get given the opportunity to.

[DeafStar]

Bodybag you are a grade A ****wit.

You have basically said the opposite of the truth with every sentence.

Enjoy your lofty status up there with all the other dickheads aviation produces.

[skyhog]

"you are far from highly qualified even if you are a Qlink Captain"~bodybag 2013

... wow. :D

[Mach E Avelli]

Bodybag, the more you write, the bigger the hole you dig for your body bag.

Have you ever sat in on a recent Q Link Q400 simulator check? Or a command check to line? Do you really think that they don't put their guys through just as much pain as Cobham before turning them loose on the public?

Since getting into more demanding airframes they had some handling issues during the learning curve, but so, from all accounts, did Cobham.

[theheadmaster]

Cobham will cut you early if they have the slightest concern about your performance.
Simple as that.

A buddy of mine with an extensive training background is a captain at Cobham. He has serious concerns about the standard of some of the F/Os at Cobhams. He tells tails of having to take over from F/Os doing visual approaches because they lack basic flying skills. Not saying everyone there is substandard, but the statement that the standards are high does not ring true from what I have heard.

[Fuel-Off]

I'd hazard a guess that one of those said FOs you allude to headmaster would be bodybags :}

Bodybags...you are a grade A douche...I'd hate to apply to Cobham to fly with the likes of you. I hope the tail section on the 717 can deploy mid flight, any exit away from you would help! :hmm:

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Capt Claret]

Typically of modern day Australians, some simple questions about a particular operator's Ts & Cs descends into willy waving. Claims that Cobham pilots are better than the rest, are as fanciful as claims that they're the worst. Like all operators the abilities of the pilots vary from acceptable to better than that.

Headmaster, your buddy must have had a bad trot because I've not had to take over from any F/O in 18 years, let alone from F/Os (plural).

The big red message at the bottom of most pages should be kept in the forefront of one's mind.

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".

[theheadmaster]

Not in a position to argue with you Claret, as my experience is not first hand. However, I respect the opinion of my buddy. I am certainly not saying Cobham is better or worse than anyone else, just that the statement by bodybag did not reconcile with what my friend is telling me. Repeating specific stories may identify parties, and I am certainly not going to go there in a forum like this where ignorance and anonymity can lead to 'witch-hunts'.

I would modify your statement, however, about ability. I have found in most organisations that ability varies from unacceptable to outstanding. Most of us, however, fit in the middle at 'safe and competent'.

[airdualbleedfault]

The fact he's supposedly "had to" take over so many times probably says more about what sort of captain he is rather than how bad the Fos are.
In line/training/check flights I have taken over exactly zero times in 20 years including time in SE Asia

[theheadmaster]

Airfault, I have known the captain in question and have spent a few years flying with him. I have heard some interesting stories from him, and have no reason to doubt his word. From his description, there are people flying for Cobham who probably should not be flying at all. I can also say that there are people flying in the company that I work for that are substandard and should not be flying. I am not having a dig at Cobham, I think the phenomenon of the substandard performer exists in all organisations. I am simply pointing out that the previous post by body bag is probably crap.

[johnwells3366]

A few BNE-based QLink crew applied and were given a base in DRW/HBA/CBA and most so far have declined.

They applied for a DRW/HBA/CBA, they were given it and then they turned it down?

I didnt realise QLink had a base in DRW

[Capt Claret]

Most likely they applied for a job hoping to get their base of choice. Gazing into crystal ball I'd say BNE or SYD. When offered positions the only bases available may well have been CBR, DRW and HBA - no BNE SYD.

warning - crystal ball is old & cloudy and may no longer be 100% accurate.

[Blitzkrieger]

Some current flight crew also asked for CBR or HBA, we're offered their requested base only to pull out when asked to put it writing.

Cobham also have been extremely slow in formalising the whole thing. They expect people to uproot their families and move with only a few weeks notice, and without any help.

It could have been handled better by the CIA!

[AviatoR21]

Yet they complain they still have to fly a turboprop and oh my how they deserve that jet job wherever they like.

[Going Nowhere]

Not too many complainers from what I can see.

Most who applied just tried their luck for BNE/SYD. Didn't happen so they'll stay put.

Pretty hard to pack up the bride and kids and move to HBA,CBR, DRW.

CBR is still a sore spot for a few in QLink.

[neville_nobody]

They applied for a DRW/HBA/CBA, they were given it and then they turned it down?

Or they've just spent the last 10 years moving around the country, sick of living in towns they don't want to be in, with people they don't know and just want to get back to somewhere they want to live. Or the Mrs has you under the pump to get back home.

Believe it or not, not every pilot wants to be journeyman their whole life, nor do their significant others. You certainly do not get paid enough to move at your own expense every 3 years your whole life. And once people start having kids etc it becomes both difficult and expensive.

And for those who have been around 10+ years this is just history repeating on the whim of some manager who thinks he knows everything but hasn't read the history books.

[Blitzkrieger]

Or they've just spent the last 10 years moving around the country, sick of living in towns they don't want to be in

Then why express in interest? The EOI is base specific.

The problem they are having with crewing the new bases is partly people putting in an EOI for bases they were only "sort of" interested in anyway. The rest is due to Cobham. They expect you to submit an EOI for a base (several months ago) then tell you nothing until a few weeks before you are expected to move, at you own expense, at Christmas time. I would be inclined not to sign any base transfer paperwork too.

As for the turbo-prop guys and girls: throw your hat in the ring, like the rest of us and take whatever base you are given, like the rest of us. If you have so many other good options available to you, be my guest.

[johnwells3366]

Sorry maybe I miss read the post.

I read it as they applied for a DRW/CBA/HBA and were given one of those bases. Then they decided they no longer wanted the position.

QantasLink has Flight Crew bases in Brisbane, Cairns, Melbourne, Mildura, Perth and Sydney.

This is from the QantasLink Trainee website. I didnt realise there were bases in DRW/CBA/HBA.

[Capt Claret]

John, you're looking at QantasLink as the QF owned & operated section of the business. QantasLink also has an arm of jets operated under contract by Cobham. It's still QantasLink but the jet bases (BNE, CBR, CNS, DRW, HBA & PER) aren't crewed by Qantas employees.

To the best of my knowledge when Cobham advertises for pilots, it's not generally for a specific base, but as needed in any of the bases.

[Going Nowhere]

Cobham Australia - Airline Services currently has crew bases in Cairns, Darwin Perth and Brisbane, and will be opening new bases in Canberra and Sydney towards the end of 2013.

Taken from the Cobham website, add HBA to that list from mid next year.

Cobham supply B717 crew to QantasLink.

[johnwells3366]

Cheers for clearing that up for me

Much appreciated

[cloudsurfng]

QantasLink also has an arm of jets operated under contract by Cobham. It's still QantasLink but the jet bases (BNE, CBR, CNS, DRW, HBA & PER) aren't crewed by Qantas employees.


and that, is exactly what is wrong with this bloody industry.

[johnwells3366]

and that, is exactly what is wrong with this bloody industry

Showing my ignorance here, why is this such a bad thing?

[Buttscratcher]

It depends on whether you think - or are so disposed to believing- that you are ticketed to fly with QANTAS.
Meaning QANTAS ....
..... as in QANTAS

Can't make it much simpler than that ....... And no, I'm not putting **** on Qlink crew.... just saying

[cloudsurfng]

it must just warm the hearts of qlink crew to see a qlink branded jet taxi past, knowing that it is operated by 'contractors'

[mince]

it must just warm the hearts of qlink crew to see a qlink branded jet taxi past, knowing that it is operated by 'contractors'


I dare say those jets were being taxied around by same 'contractors' long before most qlink crew ever worked there..... If they don't like it, leave. Simple as that.

Contracted labour is the way things are going in many industries. Not just ours.

Stop whining about it and get on with life

[Buttscratcher]

Hang on a minute.....
Who's saying the Qlink brand is especially Sunnys/Eastern?
It's all a feeder or a regional or a charter sub of Big Gay Al's machine
You blokes should get over the in-fighting
Sunnys don't own the 'Link brand, so don't bitch about 'contractors'
..... A Dash taxiing past a QANTAS 744 doesn't evoke hatred or sourness
What's next? VARA guys upset about the VA Tripple blokes stealing their flying?

[Capt Claret]

As I understand it, Airlink is a QF subsidiary company, set up ostensibly to run Qld coastal runs, using BAe146 because of the high cost of operating DC9 & B727, which operated at a loss on those routes and were subsidised by the profitable part of the network (same as now probably).

Airlink owns no aeroplanes, employes no flight crew or engineers, it uses contracted providers. NJS/Cobham being the contractor for some 22 years.

QantasLink is a relatively recent "innovation" employed to provide the travelling public with a seamless regional experience. It just happens to utilise the equipment of Sunnies, Eastern and via Cobham, Airlink.

Cloudsurfing, taking your quote it must just warm the hearts of qlink crew to see a qlink branded jet taxi past, knowing that it is operated by 'contractors' a step or two further, it must gall the Mainline Domestic guys to see an A330/B744/A380 trundle past, and vice versa because of course Australian Airlines (TAA) was sold/merged into QF back in the 90s.

The industry isn't what it was, and if not for the advent of LCC and contracting, who's to say if there would be as much activity, and thus pilot etc jobs as there is. It could be better than it is had the status quo from the halcyon days of the two airline agreement lasted. But then again it could be a lot worse.