terrorist dry runs?

[underfire]

The union for U.S. Airways pilots says there was an incident aboard one of its jetliners last month that could be classified as a “dry run” for a terrorist attack, and that it's not the only one.

WTSP-TV in Tampa, Fla., reports that, according to a US Airline Pilots Association memo, "there have been several cases recently throughout the (airline) industry of what appear to be probes, or dry runs, to test our procedures and reaction to an in-flight threat."

The most recent case happened on U.S. Airways Flight 1880 from Washington, D.C. to Orlando, Fla.

The memo said four men believed to be of Middle Eastern descent caused a commotion on the plane. The memo said one man ran from his seat in coach toward the cockpit door, then entered the bathroom “for a considerable length of time.”

As this was going on, the three other men were moving around in the cabin. They changed seats and were opening overhead bins. The memo suggested that the men were trying to distract the flight attendants.

WTSP spoke to a Wolf Koch, a security committee chairman for the Air Line Pilots Association International, who believes another 9/11-style attack will eventually be attempted.

Both the airline and the Transportation Security Administration confirmed the incident. The TSA reportedly told WTSP that it takes all such reports seriously, but said the matter requires mo further investigation at this time.



Report: Memo warns of terrorist 'dry runs' on planes | KING5.com Seattle (http://www.king5.com/news/aerospace/Memo-terrorist-dry-runs-227279451.html)

[Hotel Tango]

So why were the guys not arrested and interrogated on arrival?

[con-pilot]

So why were the guys not arrested and interrogated on arrival?

From the article none of three broke any laws or regulations. I didn't see anything about them refusing the orders of a flight crew member.

But, at the least they should have been detained and questioned, under the threat of being placed on the 'no flight' list.

"Tell us what you were up to or why you did what you did or this is the last airline flight you will ever have in the US?" That sort of thing. There very well could have been a completely innocent explanation for their actions.

[Piltdown Man]

...and interrogated on arrival?

No! That delight is only dished out by the USCIS to tourists and families going to Disney World!

[Basil]

one man ran from his seat in coach toward the cockpit door, then entered the bathroom “for a considerable length of time.”
Delhi belly? :}

[bubbers44]

On 9/11 at least one airliner when told to return to the gate a half dozen arabs got up and were in the isles when the pilot told them the airspace was closed down and they were returning to the gate. I guess they didn't know how to take off, just how to crash into something.

[MichaelKPIT]

This is interesting. A month or so before 9/11 I worked as a F/A for USAirways, and I'm pretty sure we had a dry run on one of our flights, or at least they were testing security to see if we took it seriously.

I was lead F/A on a trip and our first leg was PIT/MIA, although it was a through flt that had originated in EWR. (I believe two of the 9/11 flights left from EWR and at least some of the terrorists learned to fly in MIA.) Well there was a crew change at PIT - we were to take the PIT/MIA leg, but two middle eastern gentlemen had thru checked bags at EWR, got off at PIT and not reboarded. Thankfully our captain deemed this a security risk and would not take the flight unless they showed up, or all the baggage was unloaded and rescreened.

The ground staff looked further into the missing people and discovered that two of three red flags had been met. (It's twelve years ago now, and I can't remember exactly the criteria but I think they'd paid for them in cash, they were one-way tickets but they'd been bought more than three weeks ago - I think that if they'd been bought more recently then all three would have been raised, but don't quote me on that.)

Anyway this was my second year in the US - before that I'd worked on the ground for BA for twelve years, where we took security extremely seriously! These were the pre 9/11 days in America though, so there was still some discussion amongst the ground staff as to whether we should be taking the flight or not. The captain stood his ground, and the chief pilot came down to the gate to talk to him. I called my manager and explained what was going on, and was told that as long as I could back up my decision with the facts I was telling him that I'd have his backing. Because the captain was still standing his ground the chief pilot asked the flight crew to leave the aircraft and they were to get a new crew. He then asked me if I was also refusing to fly! I responded "I'm not refusing to fly, I'm following the direction of my PIC." The flight attendants were also replaced.

We went back to the crew room where we filled out reports and heard nothing more about the incident, until 9/11.

On my first trip back after 9/11 there were obviously a lot of "people in authority" around offering assistance to F/A's. I told one of them about what had happened, and he asked me to speak to an FBI officer, and relay the story to him.

He said that this was the second time he'd heard of something like this happening - the other time was almost identical, and had involved a flight into Houston, which of course was the other place where some of them learned to fly.

[deadcut]

So whats the problem? The cockpit doors are still locked.

[smiling monkey]

People can't even go to the toilet to take a dump without being accused of being terrorists these days. Hardly news worthy of a thread on pprune :ugh:

[nitpicker330]

Really? You don't find their activities suspicious? I do.

It's only a matter of time before they find a way.

I just hope it's not on one of my flights.

[mickjoebill]

People can't even go to the toilet to take a dump without being accused of being terrorists these days. Hardly news worthy of a thread on PPRuNe

You are not wrong, on a LA to Oz flight a few days ago a passenger was ordered by flight attendants to vacate the toilet as he had been in there some time.

The instructions were shouted to him by cabin crew and as a result many passengers became very interested.

The "suspect" passenger was a dodery 90 something year old deaf geezer.

[casablanca]

Just curious as this originated from Washington there was a very hi chance of Fams on board...course you may not know that until after the first shot

[A and C]

I had what I think may have been a dry run on a Gatwick bound flight, the UK police took the whole thing very seriously. I won't go into the details of the inccident for reasons you will no doubt understand.

The police who deal with this sort of thing are extreamly professional.

[Just a spotter]

The coverage of the same story from WTSP in Florida


The Air Marshal, whose identity we are not revealing because agency rules prohibit him from talking to the media, says the TSA doesn't want the flying public to be aware of the problems with terrorist probes. The Air Marshal and others we have spoken to say several flights they have worked were targets of dry-runs and that most of his colleagues believe no matter what the TSA says, the incident aboard Flight 1880 is serious.10 News Investigators find memo warning about terrorist "dry-runs" on airplanes | wtsp.com (http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/339104/250/INVESTIGATORS-Memo-warns-of-terrorist-dry-runs-on-planes)

[etrang]

You don't find their activities suspicious? I do.

One guy goes to the bathroom, others open overhead lockers and move around the cabin and talk to each other.

You guys would be scared of your own shadows.

[G-F0RC3]

Well it would seem that none of them tried to access the flight deck, so they wouldn't have known whether or not it was actually locked, which I'd imagine would have been one of their main objectives if it were a "dry run". Since the only other realistic way of bringing the aircraft down would probably have to involve a bomb of some kind, why all the nonsense? This doesn't quite all add up to me.

I'm not saying it wasn't part of some kind of terror prep, but it seems more likely that there is an innocent explanation for their strange behaviour. Perhaps the guy simply needed the toilet in a hurry? Perhaps the others thought it was okay to get out of their seats and whatnot? Let's not jump to conclusions.

[nitpicker330]

Well it is what it is.

Home grown are a threat too but generally they still come from families from that particular region.

Profiling? You bet ya ass.

[Eric Janson]

"Middle Eastern appearance"?

Seems to apply to any dark skinned person in the US these days. :ugh::ugh:

Fear and Paranoia are alive and well I see. :sad:

[Dont Hang Up]

The sad thing is that they only ever need to do "dry runs" now. So deep is the general paranoia that terrorism can now be carried out ad-infinitum with no need to resort to the inconvenience of real guns and bombs.

[fmgc]

Without wishing to suggest that people shouldn't be observant and vigilant, I wonder if the actions of these passengers would have drawn the same interpretations if they hadn't been of "Middle Eastern appearance".

But the chances are that a major terrorist event is going to be committed by persons of "Middle Eastern appearance". Without infinite resources you have to play your best odds to avoid another attack.

I am, however, in 2 minds as to whether the terrorist threat is as bad as it is made out to be or if the terror industry are playing it up to line their own pockets.

[wild goose]

This PC nonsense is so ridiculous!
Arabs, you mean Arabs!
You can say it, it's not a curse, it's an ethnic identity.

Why are people so scared of using the term? :ugh:

[fmgc]

Arabs, you mean Arabs!

No, how do you know that? they are of middle eastern appearance. The rest is speculation.

[El Grifo]

Either way up, when you can tell me how to sort out the good ones from the bad, they will all remain "suspicious" to me.

Not my fault :suspect:

[MichaelKPIT]

Of course they need to profile. It happens everywhere else in life. A 45 year old married mother of three will get a totally different insurance quote for a minivan than a 17 year old single male would for a Corvette. That's life.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

You'd be surprised how much common sense profiling takes place. This was post-9/11 and I got pulled at the gate. I ticked ever box, single bloke, 20-29, one way ticket paid in cash. They took one look at me, looked at my ticket, realised I was staff, looked at my UK airport ID and away I went. Sometimes common sense prevails.

[EddieHeli]

The fact that it is deemed not to require further investigation means it could have been an "Official Test of Security".

[grumpyoldgeek]

That occurred to me as well. Tiger team attack.

[787-1]

BBC News - Easyjet plane diverts to Stansted after security alert (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24499919)
A passenger jet was diverted to Stansted Airport in Essex following a security alert.
The Easyjet plane, with 151 passengers on board, had been travelling from Hamburg in Germany to Luton.
The flight landed at about 17:30 BST and was met by the police who boarded the plane, an Easyjet spokesman confirmed.
Essex Police said the passengers were safe and well and the plane was expected to be cleared to fly to Luton.
In a statement, Easyjet said the Airbus A319 aircraft, which also has six crew aboard, had been diverted as a "precautionary measure".
"We would like to thank passengers for their patience and apologise for any inconvenience caused," it said.
An Essex Police spokesman said the plane was in the process of being cleared for take-off.

[DaveReidUK]

BBC News - Easyjet plane diverts to Stansted after security alert (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24499919)No connection with the thread subject.

[mixduptransistor]

This PC nonsense is so ridiculous!
Arabs, you mean Arabs!
You can say it, it's not a curse, it's an ethnic identity.

Why are people so scared of using the term? :ugh:

Well for one you're forgetting the fact that a large number of terrorists in the world today aren't Arab (North Africa and Pakistan are not part of "Arabia")

[cresmer]

Isn't this what Terrorism is all about? Generating extreme paranoia within the other party in "the feud"?

Terrorism is also so unpredictable. Unlike armed forces massing prior to action, where the intent and potential schedule is apparent.

It must seem to lots of folk the technique is having a huge impact by rattling many if someone with an upset stomach and an olive skin is considered a security risk. Or, opening overhead luggage bins, looking for your carry-on baggage..........?

[wild goose]

mixeduptransistor
For one it seems that you are not aware that Pakistan is not considered the Middle East and that the natives of North Africa, i.e. Morrocco eastwards to Egypt are all considered Arabs.

[DozyWannabe]

It's the nuns with the guitars that scare me...:E

[PiggyBack]

My experience immediately post 911 was that the profiling was completely crazy and blatantly racist.

In a queue I was in every non-white in the queue was selected for search, no white was searched. It included a black family who were incredibly loud and american annoying perhaps but given a mum dad and two kids not much of a threat. As I was white I did not get searched myself.

The problem is that if the searches are predictable they lose any value. There are white terrorists of various types. It reminds me of my many trips to Israwl where security was tight including a long if very predictable and fomulaic interview for non-Israeli passport holders and carry on baggage X-rays but perfunctory at best for Israeli passport holders. The inevitable happened and an Israeli passport holder attempted to hijack a plane with a knife. It was noticeable after this they started having security checks for Israeli and non-Israeli passport holders which was a great relieve as I had identified it as a serious security flaw on my first trip.

[tu144]

Quote:

...and interrogated on arrival?

No! That delight is only dished out by the USCIS to tourists and families going to Disney World!

cbp not uscis. uscis gives out green cards

[etrang]

Why are people so scared of using the term?

For the same reason they are scared of someone using the toilet on a plane - they just copy those around them without thinking.

[PeePeerune]

In all seriousness. Should this be discussed on an internet forum?

[cockney steve]

REALLY ! With all this training, , most of you have still not understood the "profile" of the threat.

A Reminder.... They are likely to be MOSLEM this means they are forbidden to drink alcohol.....
and you're all wondering why they do "dry" runs?....kids today :p

[Al Murdoch]

The white terrorists are madder than the regular ones. Heard of the White Widow? Would you spot her in a queue to board your aircraft? I wouldn't...

[steamchicken]

The sad thing is that they only ever need to do "dry runs" now. So deep is the general paranoia that terrorism can now be carried out ad-infinitum with no need to resort to the inconvenience of real guns and bombs.

Worse; they don't even need to do "dry runs".

[Ian W]

My experience immediately post 911 was that the profiling was completely crazy and blatantly racist.

In a queue I was in every non-white in the queue was selected for search, no white was searched. It included a black family who were incredibly loud and american annoying perhaps but given a mum dad and two kids not much of a threat. As I was white I did not get searched myself.

The problem is that if the searches are predictable they lose any value. There are white terrorists of various types.

I am not sure that is how profiling is actually implemented. I was unfortunate to have a really long layover due to a delayed inbound with an arrival time that was always 30 minutes away at an airport that will remain nameless

It was at the time that TSA were carrying out 'random searches' at the departure gates. I watched a particular 4 man team check out three departing aircraft. They obviously had some intel of some sort as they only appeared to be stopping women below the age of 30 and making careful searches of their bags. After their exhausting hour at the gate they were replaced with a team that was all female - this group obviously had different intel as they were searching young men. :confused:

It does not increase ones sense of 'security'

[JamieE]

There will always need to be a balance in this.

I think that as long as we all keep the F/D door secure we should be in good shape with the security measures for the cabin as stringent as they are.

I did have to break into the F/D of my aircraft on the ground when I was locked out and it was extremely difficult and could only be done on the ground!!

[garpal gumnut]

As a passenger it never ceases to amaze me the vulnerability of the cockpit. If you travel anyway beyond row 7 on a Boeing 737-800 e.g it would not be difficult to get in to the cockpit, when the hosties open the door to give the flight crew tucker. I presume the airlines have some SOPs for when the cockpit door is opened. I hope so anyway.

[dazdaz1]

From my experience, as a uk pax I have noted that another member of the c/c stands at the front viewing down the aisle of the a/c while the other c/c enters the f/d.

[Rail Engineer]

My experience immediately post 911 was that the profiling was completely crazy and blatantly racist.

In a queue I was in every non-white in the queue was selected for search, no white was searched. It included a black family who were incredibly loud and american annoying perhaps but given a mum dad and two kids not much of a threat. As I was white I did not get searched myself.Ye Gods.

Something to do with the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were Arabs ???

It is unfortunate that attitudes such as yours are why we see flight deck crew screened and why clearly obviously non-threatening people are pulled for searches.

There is an old saying along the lines - If it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it squawks like a duck then the chances are it IS a duck.


Bearing in mind the profile of the Muslim terrorists (Arab or African Somali) it is not unreasonable to concentrate on those fitting those descriptions. If those people have a problem, with that then the answer lays in their own hands, and with the Countries who either overtly support the terrorist goal, or are happy to stand back and not get involved. I see some of these Countries have little problem in targeting white people when it comes to Religious issues. but little is said, presumably because PC only applies to white, Anglo-Saxon and derivative peoples.

[BARKINGMAD]

So why are the UK and other authorities so obsessed with preventing "friendly forces" from occupying the jumpseat when it is patently obvious with most aircraft jumps assembled and occupied, it would be exceedingly difficult for the wild-eyed hairy-faced fundamentalists to gain access when the door is open?

But check with your chain of command when you'd like to give someone with a known pedigree a flight deck experience ride, or help some employee/relative to get from A-B when the cabin is full.

If I thought there was/is an increased threat I'd want it occupied ALL the time.

Of course following the EASA FTLs discussion we could be usefully flying schedulers and CEOs around regularly, thereby increasing the defence of the flight deck and educating the blunt end as to what it's really like?!

And then I woke up and realised it was a dream..............:)

[NG_Kaptain]

As a passenger it never ceases to amaze me the vulnerability of the cockpit. If you travel anyway beyond row 7 on a Boeing 737-800 e.g it would not be difficult to get in to the cockpit, when the hosties open the door to give the flight crew tucker. I presume the airlines have some SOPs for when the cockpit door is opened. I hope so anyway.
Video cameras are also used. The door is not opened unless the area is clear and a cabin crew member is monitoring the FD entry.

[fantom]

Video cameras are also used. The door is not opened unless the area is clear and a cabin crew member is monitoring the FD entry.

If you know something, wouldn't it be better to say nothing?

[White Knight]

If you know something, wouldn't it be better to say nothing

The paranoia that some of you lot exhibit:ugh::ugh::ugh:

You are playing straight into our (Western) governements' hands! They WANT you to be scared so you will do as you're told. Bl00dy get over it:=:=

And while we're on the subject: Bin the stupid yellow jackets, the barbed wire, ridiculous security at LHR making sure operating crew don't carry a little tub of chilli sauce on board, the prat from security that has to 'check' my ID when I walk around my large A1 filled jet (the one with the very sharp crash-axe in the front). Well - you get my drift!

S E R I O U S L Y:confused::confused:

[poorjohn]

White Knight - give the 'prat from security' a break. He's checking to make sure it's really you, and not me. Actually not exactly me either since I personally have no interest in harming anything but you get the idea.

[monkeytennis]

Not allowed to take anything sharp past security (SLF). Once past, order burger and fries from the Wetherspoons in the departure lounge and am given...a knife! :ugh:

[A and C]

I think you all must remember that the UK's security regulations are primarily intended to protect govenment ministers and civil servants from critsisum in the press.

A whole raft of the regulations are utterly useless from a security point of view and some are counterproductive but even if the minister in charge can see this he won't do a thing about it because some one with a financial interest in the yogurt police will leak a story to the press that he is being weak on security.

[BARKINGMAD]

A&C. NICE ONE, YOU'VE ILLUMINATED THE TARGET!

Pity it's not with a laser sight?!

[Dont Hang Up]

Nothing to do with security
I think you all must remember that the UK's security regulations are primarily intended to protect govenment ministers and civil servants from critsisum in the press.

A whole raft of the regulations are utterly useless from a security point of view and some are counterproductive but even if the minister in charge can see this he won't do a thing about it because some one with a financial interest in the yogurt police will leak a story to the press that he is being weak on security.

The sad thing is, if you put the minister the civil servant and the journalist in a room together they could probably all agree that the whole security situation has got kind of silly. Unwieldy, inconsistent and way out of proportion to the risks.

But then they return to their desks and realise they have careers to preserve. No politician ever got fired for a "tough on terror" attitude. No journalist even got fired for being tough on politicians and civil servants. And so the whole thing staggers on like some sort of headless chicken.

[Wxgeek]

Man with changed name accused of planning to bring explosives onto plane (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Bombmaking+elements+suspicious+package+found+Montreal/9091630/story.html)

[413X3]

Media back to fear mongering again, it's been a long time!

[coldair]

Dont Hang Up , Excellent post, sums it up 100%

[Steve6443]

What exemplified for me the total stupidity of the security systems in place was when I flew GA into Bratislava last year. Imagine the scenario: I return to the GA terminal which is at least 300m away from the passenger terminal, a lone Pilot about to be escorted back to his Spam Can; my licence and paperwork are all in order, however security determines that my Swiss Army Knife, the bottle opener part of which I use to loosen the oil dipstick should the Incredible Hulk have tightened it down on the previous flight, could not be taken on board as it's a security risk.....

I asked the security guard what he thought I was going to do with the knife - slit my own throat? Did it not occur to him if I wanted to cause maximum damage, I could just point my Spam Can at a target on the ground and hey presto...

It's not the paranoia which gets me, it's the fact that people cannot THINK. Yes, there might be a rule for swiss army knives being taken on commercial aviation but I wasn't commercial aviation, I was the sole occupant of a spam can......:ugh::ugh::ugh:

... what makes it all the more ridiculous is that at Geneva Airport you can BUY the same knife AFTER security......

[shockcooling]

Steve6443 , the point is that there is no one authorized to pass security with a weapon. Who says you will not pass the knife on to someone who's not flying with you (fueller, mechanic,...) and this person might pass it on to let's say the cleaning staff......
I'm trying to explain this every time to my cabin crew when they complain about security again. Think further than just yourself.

[A and C]

You have missed the point.......if you are trusted to fly the aircraft you should be trusted with the equipment neded to do the preflight inspection on your aircraft.

The security paranoia tail is wagging the flight saftey dog.

[MATELO]

You have missed the point.......if you are trusted to fly the aircraft you should be trusted with the equipment neded to do the preflight inspection on your aircraft.

and

however security determines that my Swiss Army Knife,

So A & C, are you saying that a Swiss army knife is an excepted "tool" to do a walk around.

[grounded27]

So A & C, are you saying that a Swiss army knife is an excepted "tool" to do a walk around. My Leatherman brand multi tool has one razor sharp strait, one just as lethal serrated and one saw blade on it. As an AMT (LAME) in the USA it is generally accepted and I would clearly understand why it would be needed in the GA world by a pilot. Every major airport here has some sort of procedure to get the tool on the field, going back and forth through security becomes an issue. I understand in other parts of the world an additional "tool badge" is used but if possible we try to keep knives on the field. I would suggest a GA pilot leave a swiss army knife or multi tool in their aircraft if feasible.

[Steve6443]

Let me repeat again:

Why is it acceptable for Geneva Airport to offer Swiss Army knives for sale AFTER security to all an sundry, yet a VETTED Individual - namely ME - with a valid Pilot's licence, who is escorted to his aircraft and kept separate from any other passengers, is NOT allowed to take such an item with him?

It is ridiculous, plain and simple......

@grounded: I keep my knife in my pilot's bag and usually I would leave this bag in the plane when travelling; however I was advised by the refueller at Bratislava NOT to leave anything of value in the plane because parking on the apron wasn't considered a secure area!!!! I don't know how many of you have jumped through hoops due to a lost licence, but I decided to take the advice of the refueller and took all my belongings, including pilots bag with licence and logbooks (and Swiss Army Knife) with me.....

[grounded27]

Simple answer Steve, it is hard to fight stupid as governing factors are the majority vote. Logic seems something lost thus my reasoning.I certainly would not leave it visible.

[A and C]

There is no doubt that a Swiss army Knife or a leatherman tool are just that tools.

As such depending on the type of aircraft they may well be needed to do a standard pre flight check. I wonder just how happy the passengers are about the fact that security have taken away (or think they have !) the means for me to drop the fuel sticks to find out how much fuel there is on the aircraft !

It is said you should never argue with idiots and drunks.......... I would add security to that list.

[shockcooling]

If I miss the point, why would a security agent change his way of check people going from land to airside? It's exactly that point what makes it a secure area...btw, a knife is not a tool for any aircraft... Buy a different tool in your local diy without a knife and you will not have this hassle any more.

I stand by my previous point, the security agent cannot just believe you'll not pass on the knife to another person with other ideas than opening oil caps...

There's no reason to discuss it, they're not there to think, just execute their work.

[Steve6443]

It's exactly that point what makes it a secure area...

The ONLY reason I took my pilot's bag with my knife in it with me to the hotel that night is because the Refueller stated that I would be best advised not to leave anything in the plane as it's NOT a secure area.....

.... go figure.......

[grounded27]

a knife is not a tool for any aircraft Just how do you think a lot of the rubberized or plastic materials (seals, trim etc) are fit? How do I get that FCC out of that box wrapped up like it is Christmas on steroids.

they're not there to think, just execute their work.
Yeah, have fun telling them that.

[shockcooling]

Ok, rephrase it to: a knife is not a tool for any pilot.
Of course mechanics should have a certain array of tools to do their work properly, although all this tools should be in a hangar beyond security already. Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?
As a passenger, knives are allowed in your luggage which goes in the hold. I would imagine tools for a maintenance outfit would have to pass security in a similar way, although I'm not sure about that.

Btw, I'm passing security myself everyday, if they find something in my luggage which is not allowed to pass, of course I would try to reason with them, but from my experience they're not the smartest of the class and therefore the discussion will always be difficult. Early start of the day can sometimes be ruined by an arrogant security agent, it just happens all to often.

[woodja51]

BTW the TSA were proposing allowing knives back on planes with blades less than 2 inches ... And other things like baseball bats...

They decided not to after the "noknivesonplanes " and FAA union folks got all uppity ... I guess the AR-15 assault rifle thru security must be okay after LAX ??

The point is that prescribed systems have flaws , but so do outcomes based ones... There is no simple fix , but tools of the trade are generally accepted items... So a screwdriver would work , but a knife , no . ( oh and by the way the weapon of choice for thugs is often a screwdriver as you can buy really long ones that will go straight thru someone... Much easier than a knife with a long blade in fact )

But its all academic as perhaps half the worlds widebody airliners can be breached via the flight deck door carrying nothing thru security at all. Just ask Boeing about the electronics hatch that is in the cabin area and unlocked.. But I have banged away at this before so getting tired of hearing myself as the "swiss army knife police" reckon they have it sorted.

[MarcK]

Ok, rephrase it to: a knife is not a tool for any pilot.
We were talking GA here, and I absolutely dispute that statement. There are lots of things a GA pilot does during preflight for which a (multiplex) knife is a most useful tool.

[grounded27]

Or are you telling me all mechanics should from now on be able to pass security with knives carried on themselves as personal items?

Generally they are a part of a multifunction tool and permitted through a process to gain access airside (not just in a hangar environment). To avoid hassle once they are airside (past the gate agent) we try to keep them there. I agree that a GA pilot should have a knife as part of a simple tool set as they perform regular servicing of their aircraft or say if a piece of interior material came loose and was a nuisance.

They trust a pilot with an aircraft, here in the USA pilots can gain a air marshal card to carry a firearm. A little to much. Same goes with the AMT/LAME, all aboard place their lives in our hands daily yet we are treated like criminals as we go through security. Funny thing is we are expected to perform the duties of aircraft security by challenging any person that does not hold a badge. A real organized threat I would be putting my life at risk.

[drivez]

Even more ridiculous than a multi tool, I had left a yoghurt from the crew food bag the day before at the bottom of my bag without even thinking. Next day passing through security, bag search, metal detector and shoes off, all because of the offending yoghurt. Frustrating indeed, just a mindless regulation to mindlessly abide by.

[A and C]

When flying GA now I always leave the multi tool in the aircraft working on the theory that if it is part of the aircraft safety equipment than it is just like the fire axe on an airliner........ You could not get one past security but you must have one on the aircraft.

[coldair]

Trust the TSA, they are on our side ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a8jGVXOMsw