RAF Wildenrath these days (photos)

[grunticus]

First let me introduce myself: I live in Roermond. I am not a pilot, but always had an interest (with varying intensity) for military aviation (was a grunt myself, in the Dutch army). These days I prefer to swing my metaldetector over fields, looking for relics and coins. Anyway, bare with me.

Last week I was driving around in Germany looking for a suitable field, and found one, which turned out to be adjescent to RAF Wildenrath! The compound is freely accessible so I went to have a look. As a kid, me and my friends went there by bicycle, to watch the daily traffic of Jaguars and Lightnings....fond memories....Most of the time we were sodded-off by RAF police though :o)

Unfortunately there's not much left, but some. I felt rather sad seeing it. I thought some of you might like to see some photos.

P.s., any hints on where to metal-detect on the base?

http://192.168.0.199:5000/fbsharing/2IF3IBEZ

http://192.168.0.199:5000/fbsharing/K7B5pjvW

http://192.168.0.199:5000/fbsharing/0le8Afon

http://192.168.0.199:5000/fbsharing/vIZRto3I

[davec482]

Hi,
I lived on the old RAF Wildenrath married quarters from 2008 - 2012. It has now been closed down and finally handed back to the German authorities.

Both my Mother and father were stationed there during the 60's and this is where they met.

There are plenty of areas to metal detect around the old RAF station, but I would think the most interesting areas would be at the ends of the runway (certainly at the Dutch end) and in the woods on the far side from the hangers...This is where the ammo bunkers and gun test ranges were.

I suppose that any area within the old station perimeter will provide some finds.

Of interest would be the old WW2 German defenses to the West of the the staion. If you head South from the new roundabout (where the main entrance used to be) then take the 1st right, you will see a wood line on your right hand side..park anywhere along that road and walk into the woods and you will find old trenches and bunkers...the line is part of the Western Wall (Siegfried Line).

[NutLoose]

If they close Bruggen the place to look would be around hill 60 that was off to the side of the main runway at the Roermond end, that is where they used to dig up the odd German from WW2, though this area is in what was no mans land... I would avoid the woods as although they had lots of shell craters etc in them, there was supposed to unexploded ordnance from the war as it was part of the German defences. Again the Siegfried line

[Tankertrashnav]

Grunticus - your pictures are just showing up as those annoying little boxes with a cross in them - don't know whether thats just my problem or is anyone else getting it?


Anyway, bare with me.




Thought it was the Germans who were into naturism ;)

(Sorry, your English is 100% better than my Dutch and better than many Brits who post on here - but I couldn't resist it!)

[Tiger_mate]

I would rather that then 'bear' with him! :E

[bosnich71]

Crikey we used to go sledging ... or should that be tobboganing (?) ..... on Hill 60, especially during the Winter of 62/63. Good job we didn't know about the 'unexploded ordinance'. :ooh:

[NutLoose]

No, they were supposedly in the woods the other side of the perimeter road, On some days I used to walk around to the Sqn during the summer months and you could still see the shell craters indentations on the ground between the trees.

[Navaleye]

Never went to either of them. Did go to Gatow. What an interesting place.

[Motleycallsign]

Unable to view any pics, but didn't the airfield at Wildenrath become the Deutsche Bundesbahn test track for new rolling stock?

[NutLoose]

Yes, google wildenrath on satellite images. if you go to Gutersloh a lot there, apparently when building the Chinook hanger on of the German drivers stated that it was on part of the site where they buried a lot of axis aircraft after the war, I believe some was found when digging the foundations, but not the main site?

[bosnich71]

Nutloose ..... the Squadron lines were on the camp side of the base in my day,only the QRA area and bomb dump over the other..... as far as I knew.
RAF Gielenkirchen was reputed to have an ex WW2 bunker in the woods which supposedly still contained bodies from the fighting in the area and had had earth bulldozed over it. By some accounts the Snoops dogs wouldn't go near the area.

[NutLoose]

Bos... in the early 80's you would have a squadron off each corner of the runway, on the far side from the domestic area next the QRA and the golf course was 20 Sqn when the jags were there, same side other end of the runway past the bomb dump was 14 Sqn.. Domestic side down by 431 MU / hill 60 end was 31 Sqn, up the other end near the Cinema / SHQ end was 17 Sqn.

[bosnich71]

Nutloose .... I was at Bruggen in the olden days when the RAF had real airyplanes , Canberras,not those little toy thingummies as in the 80's.

[bosnich71]

SAMXXV ... I spent a Summer at Wildenrath on detachment from Bruggen with 213 sqdn. and the rumour was that the Pembrokes flying into Berlin sometimes contained someone with a Box Brownie.
While this may seem to be a silly rumour the RAF did use Chipmunks as part of their surveillance tools in Berlin and there were occasions when a returning flight would be met by an RVT vehicle before arriving back on the pan.

[NutLoose]

And curtains, the Pembroke had curtains :)

[BEagle]

and the rumour was that the Pembrokes flying into Berlin sometimes contained someone with a Box Brownie.

OP. HALLMARK.....

One night in the OM bar at Valley in 1975, I casually mentioned to an ex-Pembroke navigator (I think he was an air trafficker or the stn nav?) that no doubt the PR Pembrokes at Wildenrath did rather more than just fly VIPs around RAFG...such as having a good look at the Berlin corridors. He went white, marched me out into the corridor and asked how the hell I knew about it. I told him that it was a pure guess (which it was), but his behaviour had now confirmed it. "Just forget you even mentioned it", he told me, "and never mention it again!". So I didn't - and the operation was only declassified some 25 years later.....

[bosnich71]

SAMXXV .... " to my knowledge Pembrokes never ever used cameras". Neither did Chipmunks but they did take pictures.
I was a groundie on Canberras so no flying thank you very much !
As our Squadron detachment flight line was adjacent to Air Movements we obviously noticed things happening on the airfield. The arrivals/departures of the daily British United trooping flights was always a highlight, not from an aircraft point of view just for any 'birds' aboard.
One thing that a few of us did notice however was that the Pembrokes arriving from wherever did not always taxy straight into Comms Flt. but would sometimes stop on the taxiway after clearing the runway, an RVT truck would approach, doors would open and close, the RVT truck would drive off and the Pembroke would continue it's journey to the Flt. Line.
None of us at the time knew anything about Brixmiss but years later my Wife did tell me that she had nursed senior Russian Army officers whilst serving in the QA's at BMH Rinteln.Until I read about Brixmiss some years later I just thought that she was a tad delusional.

[bosnich71]

Beagle .... Thanks for the link to Operation Hallmark. Blimey the things that were happening in those days and all of us young lads thought it was all about beer and Bratwurst.
Given that the Pembrokes used to be met, on occasion, by an RVT truck ... I believe that the letters stood for Radio Vehicle Transport ... we always thought that it may have been secret squirrel stuff/black boxes etc. that was being removed.

[zetec2]

Camera's in the Pembrokes, oh dear, lift the carpet & floorboards & what have we here ?, not box brownies but something much better to photograph you with, yes they did , (PH, 60Sqd 1968-1970), been done before on another post !.

[zetec2]

Further to my earlier post, might be some ex members of No 1 MPHU (Mobile Photographic Unit) J*hn L**k*tt where are you ?, on here, they were based alongside 17Sqd (PR) Canberra's hangar where all those funny black boxes were delivered after the Pembroke flights up & down to Gatow had landed (we did Templehoff & Tegel as well), they would no doubt be able to advise what & where it was all about. On the trips to Gatow after taxying in & after refuelling & oiling we were usually towed into the top hangar to unload away from the prying eyes on the watch towers on the far side of the airfield, very clandestine !.

[zetec2]

Have a look at these sites, google Part 1 & Part 2, very informative re the Pembrokes.
www.16va.be/pembrokes_part1_eng.html‎

[incubus]

When I was there in 1982/83 there were only 2 Sqns of F4's at Wildenrath. (certainly 19 sqn & if I remember correctly, 56)
19 and 92 Sqns flying the mighty Phantom over that time period. I was a brat there '81-'84.

[4mastacker]

Nutloose wrote:
……... if you go to Gutersloh a lot there, apparently when building the Chinook hanger on of the German drivers stated that it was on part of the site where they buried a lot of axis aircraft after the war, I believe some was found when digging the foundations, but not the main site?

When a second railhead siding was built in the early 70's (to offload rail tankers) a lot of ex-Luftwaffe aircraft bits were dug up during the excavations. (Looking a Google earth it appears the two sidings are still there). The German civvy who looked after the BFI's had served at Gutersloh during WWII and he confirmed that that area was part of an aircraft burial site - as a former aircraft fitter, he was able to identify bits of Junkers and Focke-Wolfe. As aircraft preservation was not in-vogue at the time, all the bits that were dug up went into the scrapyard for disposal.

[diginagain]

There's plenty of ordnance still lying around in the Hochwald.

[mrmrsmith2]

SAMXXV
To my knowledge, 60 Sqn never ever used cameras - & why would they need to with the U2 in use?


PMSL your so right SAMXXV I mean camera in Pembroke's n chipmunks, from them that know lol

[Geehovah]

I'm not seeing the pictures so here are a few I took earlier this year when I passed through.

The good old days. Runway 09
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Aircraft/92LandingAL1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DeeGee/media/Aircraft/92LandingAL1.jpg.html)

The exit neck from Delta Dispersal now

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Delta.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DeeGee/media/Delta.jpg.html)

92 Sqn Battle Flight HAS on Bravo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/92BFHAS.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DeeGee/media/92BFHAS.jpg.html)

[NutLoose]

Now don't laugh here, but when serving at Bruggen we had the identical HAS as the one above, and I always thought that post station closure etc they might make nice houses... Doing an upmarket estate with a squadron site..

You probably think I am barking, but take off those blast doors and totally glaze the front face with a mezzanine floor stepped back slightly from the glazed wall and a then some skylights set in the roof... With proper insulation inside and heating I think it would be energy efficient. Some could be grassed over and others have various external finishes from tile to zinc cladding...

Yes no?

[4ROCK]

Plenty of space for a Weber or two out the front as well.............!!

[bosnich71]

Nutloose ....When compared with the old open ended contraptions that we used at Bruggen during the 60's they are absolutely luxurious.Ours were just the job for letting all the snow and ice in.
Then again I suppose it did give the crews, both air and ground, something to do on cold winter nights de-icing and snow sweeping etc.

[morton]

Nutloose. You should, we hope, have a bit of a problem putting in the skylights. However, we have the technology!
Operation Desert Storm | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edoug/2966142912/in/set-72157608280697632)

Looks like this thread is going sideways now!

[NutLoose]

It had crossed my mind that it would be a bit of a bitch to cut through, but you could open up one side on some to a deck at mezzanine level.

Look on the bright side, it will be standing long after the majority of the housing boxes built these days have fallen down.

[NutLoose]

Sorry for the drift.

[Four Turbo]

Interesting thread. I was on Canberra PR7s at Wildenrath (17 Sqn) from 61 to 63. The Pembroke stuff was always much higher priority than ours! Though we had much more fun with most of West Germany to explore from not above 250ft. Woe betide us though if we went too far east.

[zetec2]

Four Turbo (http://www.pprune.org/members/196154-four-turbo), correct I was on 17 (PR) Sqd with the PR7 from 1966 to disbandment, agree that 60 Sqd had a far greater priority in developing / printing & interpretation of images than we had, after 17's disbandment I then moved up the road to 14 Sqd with BI8's, then they disbanded so then I went down the road & finished my tour on 60 Sqd, got about a bit !!!!!!. PH.

[NutLoose]

bosnich71
Nutloose ....When compared with the old open ended contraptions that we used at Bruggen during the 60's they are absolutely luxurious.Ours were just the job for letting all the snow and ice in.
Then again I suppose it did give the crews, both air and ground, something to do on cold winter nights de-icing and snow sweeping etc.


We might of had walls but they were not heated, well in theory they were to plus one degrees, as in snow you do not want warm aircraft going out in it, because it would melt and then freeze. At least they were dry, though having two Jags in one, the engines would blow against the internal walls meaning you were breathing 100% exhaust all the time on departures.

[A2QFI]

The Wildenrath trains tracks are used by Siemens, the train makers, not DB. Some of the hangars are now used as sets for film and TV, I think

[NutLoose]

What about the old bracht bomb dump site, think there is any old WW2 artifacts there?

[zetec2]

Went there last year, how it is changed, the guardroom/cafe does a lovely lunch, had some difficulty finding my way around though, 17 & 14 Sqd hangars still there, had to go out through the main drag under the bridge past the golf course onto the main road to get back in past the pig farm & Peterscholtz gate to gain access to quarters, swimming pool by the NAAFI gone, the old Barrack Stores building still standing but bowling alley & motor club building gone, found our old house on the Einbanstrasse by the school but all of GSO is gone, lots of big fences blocking access to places, nostalgia just not what it used to be !, will be out there again next year on a Wildenrath, Wegberg pilgrimage to see how much it has changed again, although did fill up the car at Willy Ottens garage but he is long gone !, PH.

[BEagle]

Willy Ottens

Would that be the same Willi who was also employed as an MTD at Wildenrath before it closed?

[dagama]

Zetec 2:

Was the Zur Post there in the Village? (before the BP Garage, IIRC). Did a mean Balkan Platter which was washed down with an orange liquer.

[zetec2]

BEagle, have to pass on that one, Willi was I think approaching 50 back in 1970 so would have been quite past his sell by date at closure, but never know, must be some later Wildenrathers out there who could confirm ?.

Regarding Zur Post in Wildenrath village again pass !, we used to use one a bit further up (Wickrath ?) think that had similiar name , wasn't the orange fluid Jagermeister ?, couldn't find a lot of our old haunts when we last visited, got lost in Arsbeck looking for our old hiring, all changed so much.
PH, zetec2

[Tiger_mate]

The ' mean Balkan platter '

I did an air show at Axel on the dutch / belgian border in Puma and long story short, could not recover to GT on sunday so night stopped in the 'clutch'.

Our ground crew ( ex Clutch stn) challenged the crew to square away said Balkan platter as a challenge along with: you see it off and I (JTech) will pay for it. As there was no timeline mentioned, as very good, and free evening followed!

[NutLoose]

I used to eat for free in the Italian in Bruggen village, but loved the jaeger schnitzel outside the main gate.

[DGAC]

And then there was the chicken at the "Fuchsbau" in the woods.

[Tabby Badger]

The Balkan Platter was awesome. The liqueur was slivovitz and was not optional!

TB

[NutLoose]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zufanek-Slivovitz-Oak-Aged-50/dp/B00GO13XBC/ref=sr_1_1/279-9163345-9445510?ie=UTF8&qid=1387194622&sr=8-1&keywords=slivovitz

;)

[Akrotiri bad boy]

The guy that ran the place was a Jason King lookalike, all perm and 'tache. He was also a prison warder in MG somewhere and certainly took no prisoners when it came to over exuberance in his bar. Remember the platter of cold frikadelle's on the bar?

It was after a particularly exuberant evening in the back room playing pool, I think my watch is still on the windowsill, that the good old boys from P&SS picked me up in their brand new Range Rover and insisted I take a ride back to the guardroom with them. Well, I had an "accident" whilst travelling with them which left a funny stain on the upholstery. This led to an overnight incarceration in the guardroom and that looooong walk up the drag the following morning. It took me so long to walk that by the timed I reached the Mally it had opened for business and I thought, ho hum, I'll pop in. The boys around 92's table had heard of the previous evening's exploits and welcomed me back with more ale and friks and so the cycle started again.

Happy Daze :ok:

[NutLoose]

that the good old boys from P&SS picked me up in their brand new Range Rover and insisted I take a ride back to the guardroom with them

You too... I got the "you're in trouble now son" (Drunk)

To which I replied,

"Guys, you have to look on the bright side, you saved me a taxi fare"

Didn't seem to go down well. :E

[Haraka]

Never forget the superb community of BFES teachers.....

[BEagle]

Never forget the superb community of BFES teachers.....

Indeed.... Or the PMRAFNS from Wegberg. And no, 'Wegberg ring' isn't an obscure ailment of the nether regions :eek: , it's the name of the old motor racing track.

Landed at ex-RAF Wahn this evening, onto the S-bahn and checked into the hotel. Then some Kölsch and a Jägerschnitzel mit Pommes und Salat for that authentic RAFG experience!

[Lima Juliet]

+1 on the Fuchsbau :ok:

Fuchsbau Gaststätten GmbH - das Älteste Waldrestaurant in Mönchengladbach (http://www.fuchsbau-mg.de/)

Legendary chicken, but also frequented by the war criminals of Bruggen as well as the brave boys of Wildenrath...

LJ;)

[NutLoose]

Then some Kölsch and a Jägerschnitzel mit Pommes und Salat for that authentic RAFG experience!


I'm officially jealous.

[27mm]

Let's also not forget the QARANCs, or Queen Alexandra's Royal Armoured Nursing Corps - splendid ladies.....:ok:

[DGAC]

Don't you mean QARANC - Quick And Ready And Never Caught!!!

[bosnich71]

"Quick And Ready And Never Caught" ... never heard that one before but it di apply to my ex Q.A. missus until she finally relented and allowed me to marry her.

[Harry Lime]

I visited Wildenrath three months ago and Zur Post is still there. Externally it looks much the same as it was in '67 - '69, but inside it has gone a bit up-market. More a restaurant with a fancy bar than how Herr und Frau Schiffers ran it forty odd years ago. When I asked for 'ein grosse beir' I was presented with 0,4 litres of Bitburger in a stemmed flute type glass vice 0,5 litres in a German 'sleeve' glass.

Don't even mention 'halb henchen mit fritten!'

[Jackw106]

found this a German perspective gets more informative later in the clip

RAF Flughafen Wildenrath 2013 - YouTube

[Kilonovember52]

Some interesting info on the Pembrokes clandestine Cold War role here

The Hunting Pembrokes (http://www.16va.be/pembrokes_part1_eng.html)

[nickranson]

I recall that it was No. 4 MFPU under F/L Lawes during my time wth 17 Sqdn (1964-67) that was adjacent to our hangar. Though I was a Canberra pilot I never heard a whisper of the Pembroke's activities during that time; such innocence!

[Haraka]

I recall that it was No. 4 MFPU under F/L Lawes during my time wth 17 Sqdn (1964-67) that was adjacent to our hangar. Though I was a Canberra pilot I never heard a whisper of the Pembroke's activities during that time; such innocence!
The MFPU (later the RIC) had no involvement in the mission. That was all handled at Rheindahlen.

[Lou Scannon]

As a regular visitor to Wildenrath in the 60's in Hastings, I was always amused by the notice on offices close by the ops bunker.

On one window there was a note: "In case of emergency, break glass to access the telephone."

and underneath a plaintiff:

"But do please try the door first!".

[Alan Armstrong]

Further to my earlier post, might be some ex members of No 1 MPHU (Mobile Photographic Unit) J*hn L**k*tt where are you ?, on here, they were based alongside 17Sqd (PR) Canberra's hangar where all those funny black boxes were delivered after the Pembroke flights up & down to Gatow had landed (we did Templehoff & Tegel as well), they would no doubt be able to advise what & where it was all about. On the trips to Gatow after taxying in & after refuelling & oiling we were usually towed into the top hangar to unload away from the prying eyes on the watch towers on the far side of the airfield, very clandestine !.

My father was a pilot on 17 Sqn from '66 to '69. I was only 7-10 then, but Wildenrath holds some fantastic childhood memories. I have been trying to find info on this period for quite some time and came across this site. My father is still alive (edited out).

[NutLoose]

Welcome to the site :)

[sharpend]

My father was a pilot on 17 Sqn from '66 to '69. I was only 7-10 then, but Wildenrath holds some fantastic childhood memories. I have been trying to find info on this period for quite some time and came across this site. My father is still alive and living in Edinburgh.
I was there on 14 Sqn at that time. Was your father the boss of 17 Sqn?

[Alan Armstrong]

I'm ashamed to say I'm not sure. He certainly arrived as Flt Lt and I think he was Sqn Ldr when we left. His name is (edited out). You may well have known him as bases are naturally quite small and everyone knows everyone else? (Edited out).

[Jackonicko]

The boss of 17 then would have been Mike Armitage. 14 went from 'Mac' Furze to Tim McElhaw during that time frame, and 60 were under Joss Linford. Bill Bailey was Staish, IIRC.

[Alan Armstrong]

That is definitely a name I recognise on 17 Sqn. Thanks very much