UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 3

[PANews]

Not me mister!

As you should know by now I do not post under any other name, never have, never will and my handle is pretty transparent..... If I cannot say it as 'me' I simply shut up and bite my lip or write it in my publication.

I was actually skim reading down before posting anyway.... my earlier comment seems to have been buried by these arguments with Ye Old pilot [boo hoo :uhoh:]...

My post simply was to point out that YOPs comment about liking to see a lot more cross funding between air ambulance ops and police air ops will not work.

NPAS thought it could continue with 'helping' air ambulances out with engineering, pilotage and accommodation but found that the new EASA rules on the separation of police operations [State Aircraft] from the rest of aviation simply halted that well meaning plan in its tracks. There will be some 'help' [fuel and accommodation etc] but nothing like that intended.

[SilsoeSid]

Some edit you made there YOP.
Can't quite keep up with people actually doing the job, can you!


"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

[SilsoeSid]

YOP
Give me an example of a yob baiting plod by stealing a car who got a serious stretch.

As has already been mentioned, the boys in blue do the dirty work, the CPS decide what happens thereafter.
Anyway, this any good for you?

Ex-serviceman jailed for M6 100mph chase in stolen car « Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/crime/2013/07/30/ex-serviceman-jailed-for-m6-100mph-chase-in-stolen-car/)
;)

[Ye Olde Pilot]

OK let me answer that.
A stolen car worth '£4,000' ?

The cost of the helicopter plus ground crews followed by legal aid through the magistrates (because they can only give the bad boy six months) and prosecution costs. Must be at least a bill of £60k for the public purse.
Mr Mark Rees, prosecuting, said: “Officers were on patrol and their attention was drawn to the vehicle and they began to follow it.

“It was travelling through the roadworks and it began to speed up. The car continued to drive erratically and they put on the blue lights but the defendant sped up to 100 mph. He exited at junction 11 going northbound and went through a red traffic light. The police helicopter was up and the stinger was activated. The defendant drove straight through it on the A460 Cannock Road before stopping."

It could be argued that the police instigated this chase as so often is the case.

The driver get's 12 months but is out in six and time served on remand means he walks away.

Is it worth it?

If I have my £4k lawn tractor stolen tonight will plod be launching a chopper or raiding the local you know what camp?

I'll get a crime number and a letter from victim support end of story.

A friend of mine had his £12k mini digger stolen two weeks ago.The police are not interested. He had a visit from the police four days later to issue a crime number to clear the crime off the books.

If that is the best you can offer to defend the high cost of air support Silsoe you should get your coat.

That's the typical crime the air support unit attends in the police camera action time fillers on the satellite channels.:=

[jayteeto]

So let me get this straight, only 4 grand so don't bother. They can steal Rob kill with a 40 quid car. When exactly DO we think it is cost effective. A shoplifters costs money to put through court, why not just let them steal and save money. Saturday night thugs kick the **** out of a drunk and steal his 500 quid iPhone. Worth it or not? Maybe it should be minimum attempted murder before it becomes cost effective.
Personally, I want criminals to know that whatever crime they commit, the police will use whatever assets are available to catch them.
The sentences handed down are another thing, they ARE too lenient, however not bothering to continue catching criminals is admitting defeat and inviting anarchy. While we have laws, we should attempt to enforce them.
YOP, you have a valid point, when all laws are cancelled, I will do it your way, until then, quit whining. Believe me, you ARE whining

[jayteeto]

A lot, an awful lot

[Ye Olde Pilot]

I guess you've never several thousand pounds worth of garage equipment stolen and you know who nicked it but the plod who eventually comes around tells you not to point fingers there as the persons concerned fall in to a special category.

'We'll issue a crime number sir and your insurance company will sort it'.:ugh:

Quite frankly if someone nicks my car I don't care.

Vehicle theft/TWOC is not high on my agenda.

Better assign that sort of stuff to VOSA.

Jayteeto I see you are Liverpool based.

From my experience a dozen helicopters and a 100 cars will never tackle petty crime in the city. The scally's are out to wind you up at a weekend.

[md 600 driver]

My fuel bowser was stolen from the airfield by campers from a nearby caravan site it wasn't road worthy as it was a static bowser they cut all the brake air hoses and disconnected all the brakes , the force helicopter was called but the ground plod found it and arrested the 2 miscreants

I had to pay £450 to get it towed back to the airfield the two people caught were given a cauction no fine or endorcements to licences even though they were driving a stolen uninsured 26 tonne waggon with no brakes

They returned to their campsite is wonder what they did the next evening

I wasn't a happy bunny

[Ye Olde Pilot]

The problem is MD that the law is not applied evenly.

Waste licences,red diesel use,no tax/insurance.. none of these result in confiscation of vehicles because plod is scared of the outcome. Dale Farm is a good example.

If the law was applied there or at Cottenham in Cambridgeshire then certain parties would get the message. There was a case in the national press recently where a stolen caravan was located to a certain community but plod refused to reunite it with the legal owner.

I get so wound up when I watch the satellite channels police action stuff because most chases are started by the traffic cars.

In Cambridgeshire and Lincolnshire there are thousands of illegal drivers with foreign plates and no insurance who have been in the UK for years.

Each airborne hour for a police operation takes big money away from the bobby who should be out there helping Joe Public.

[SilsoeSid]

YOPI get so wound up when I watch the satellite channels police action stuff because most chases are started by the traffic cars.

Of course the police start any pursuit, how does it work any other way? :ugh:

Report of vehicle used in crime, vehicle seen, vehicle pursued if it doesn't stop when lit up. Report of stolen vehicle, stolen vehicle seen, vehicle pursued if it doesn't stop when lit up. Vehicle seen driving dangerously, vehicle pursued if it doesn't stop when lit up. Etc etc :rolleyes:

As for the rest of your rantings, quite simply if you don't like it;

a. Don't watch the programmes, do you really think the PC's (and pilots) themselves are happy with the 'results'?
b. Complain to your MP, not deaf ears on an internet forum. It's not the PC's that dictate the punishments. They do their part of the process, others dictate the ongoing proceedings.
c. If you don't like it here, go back to the Saigon Sports 2 Hotel on Le Lai Street.
d. Hope that you or your friends/family don't need a police helicopter for anything other than the limited view of what you think we only get up to!

Simples
:ok:

Oh, and yes we have launched to specifically look for stolen plant :ok:

[SilsoeSid]

MD600
I had to pay £450 to get it towed back to the airfield the two people caught were given a cauction no fine or endorcements to licences even though they were driving a stolen uninsured 26 tonne waggon with no brakes

So the police had done their job right! It's not up to them to get your £450 back.

Was the bowser insured? Maybe there is a recovery part to it you could claim on. Failing that the small claims court maybe, or one of these blame/claim companies. Try that route and you'll see what the police are up against when they want to fully charge the 'offenders' they catch.

Surely a 26 ton 'static bowser' with all that valuable fuel on board, (19,000 litres?) should have been immobilised :ugh:

[SilsoeSid]

By the logic of YOP;

Lets take a hypothetical example of a missing 8 year old girl.
After a search of her home and contacting friends & family, 3 police officers are sent out to look for her; a. looks in the local parks, b. looks round the local reservoir and c. looks in the town centre

When the girl is found in the local park, according to the logic of YOP, it has been a total waste of money sending out officers b & c.

:ugh:

[Hughes500]

SS

the difference in MD 600's case is that nothing is done by the system. I was stopped towing an empty bowser by plod in Bristol ( I have an adr licence etc etc ) was given a prohibition notice as I didn't have a drain cover with me. There is no definition in the adr manual what a drain cover should be, Adr examiner suggested the car rubber mat is suitable, should have seen plods face when I said that ( mat is 4 ft square ) was still given a prohibition notice. So in future if I don't bother having the correct licence, nick it, drive an unsafe vehicle I am let off, where as if you have all the correct stuff you are kept on the side of the M5 for 3 hours !!!!
I hasten to add here that I know it is the system that is wrong not you guys, we need to change the cps I presume !:ugh:

[jayteeto]

Correct, the CPS are assessed on positive outcomes. This leads them to only prosecute 100% certainties. Cant blame them because they get bollocked if a prosecution fails!!!!! Tail wagging dog here, I believe Labour introduced their 'targets' to improve efficiency. It worked, they tend to get over 90% conviction rates..................... :ugh:
PS. YOP, they dont go out to wind us up at weekends (I left 3 years ago, nothing has changed), they tend not to wind us up at all. Cars that make off usually have either stolen property/Disqual Driver/Drunk Driver?Drugs on board 99.9% of the time. Can't you understand your perception of our 'clients' is just plain WRONG?????

[Ye Olde Pilot]

Here is the problem Silsoe illustrated by Hughes 500
SS
I was stopped towing an empty bowser by plod in Bristol ( I have an adr licence etc etc ) was given a prohibition notice as I didn't have a drain cover with me. There is no definition in the adr manual what a drain cover should be,
Meanwhile we see the abuse of the system at Dale Farm/Cottenham where no one would dare impose the rules.

I'm not anti air support just asking for it to be used more economically and for tasks that do not involve games by bored unemployed youths.

In the meantime the public perception of plod goes down the tubes with Plebgate and the lying three union officers who are up before Keith Vaz again next week.

I think it's time after all your rants to admit NPAS is working :ok:

[ShyTorque]

and the lying three union officers who are up before Keith Vaz again next week.

Now there's turnaround for the history books, if ever there was one... :oh:

[Aerodynamik]

I think it's time after all your rants to admit NPAS is working

I'm really pleased to hear NPAS is working out YOP. I take it you speak with inside knowledge, experience or have had dealings. Could you share some good news stories with us. It might shut up some of the detractors.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

I'm not going to get side tracked on this one but those three guys got caught out and one has 12 complaints going against him.

BBC News - 'Plebgate': Officers face fresh inquiry over Mitchell meeting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24787557)

Now lets look at how clever plod is with Mispers.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70844000/jpg/_70844315_70842187.jpg
Abbotskerswell missing boy found under bed
Devon and Cornwall Police helicopter
Police searched the house twice for the missing boy
A missing three-year-old boy was found asleep under his bed after a two-hour search involving a police helicopter and more than 200 villagers.

Police found the boy curled up in a pile of clothes under his bed in a second search of the property in Abbotskerswell, Devon.

His mother raised the alarm at 21:15 GMT after going to check on her son who was found just before 23:00 GMT.

She said she was "amazed" at the "overwhelming response".

"I want to say a heartfelt thank you to everyone who turned out," she said.

The force helicopter, police dogs and the Dartmoor Rescue Team were all involved in the search of the village near Newton Abbot.

An appeal on Facebook led to hundreds of villagers joining the search.

'Overwhelming' response
Police said they were "very grateful for the response and offers of support they received from the local community".

A spokesman said: "On arrival, police were advised by the child's mother that she had searched the house and the boy was not inside.

"An initial quick search of the property was conducted by officers. The search was then taken outside due to immediate concerns for the boy's welfare.

"When the child was not located in the local area, officers carried out a thorough search of the home and the boy was found safe and well."

A friend of the family said: "The response from local people was overwhelming.

"There was one chap with a walking stick, and one couple even drove over from Exeter and in the pouring rain."

Kid hides under his bed.We all did it. 999 chopper launched and one hour 45 mins later mum says sorry he's under his bed.

40 years ago plod cycles to house. 'Hello hello hello 'ave you looked under his bed?' Kid found and no Swat squad.

When I look at Heartbeat I ask myself 'How did policing work in those days without air support and all the Kaptain Klown kit?'

Coppers living and working in the community is the answer.

Here is another where basic policing failed.
Miller Redpath: Body found in garden of missing teenager two months after he vanished - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/miller-redpath-body-found-garden-2530327?tabPane=Comments)

[SilsoeSid]

YOP
I'm not anti air support just asking for it to be used more economically and for tasks that do not involve games by bored unemployed youths.

Could have fooled me! You sound like the typical green eyed monster that occasionally raises it's head here. Usually just after a recruitment process.

Your perception of these 'games' that go on amazes me, you have already been told this simply does not happen.

40 years ago plod cycles to house. 'Hello hello hello 'ave you looked under his bed?' Kid found and no Swat squad.


And that still happens. :ugh:
The helicopter doesn't launch until the basics, as requested by NPAS dispatch, are completed. If the search isn't thorough enough, surely you don't think that's the fault of everyone in NPAS :rolleyes:

[SilsoeSid]

YOP
When I look at Heartbeat I ask myself 'How did policing work in those days without air support and all the Kaptain Klown kit?'

Ok folks, leave this one to me .... :ok:

Not one 'crime' in the tv series Heartbeat, would warrant the use of a police helicopter.
List of Heartbeat episodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heartbeat_episodes#Series_1-5_.281992-1995.29)


When you see the police motorbike being ridden in Heartbeat, is it not right that the correct protective clothing is being worn and due to it being a police vehicle, is it not also right that the rider should be in uniform? So, the appropriate clothing works now, in exactly the same way that it did 'back then'.


p.s. It's television, don't believe everything you see/hear.

[SilsoeSid]

I think some part of the reason behind YOP's vitriol, aimed at everyone in police aviation UK, can be found on the Nepal thread.

eg.
There are some other expert pilots on other threads who would not venture in to your territory VF.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/483614-top-world-photos-nepal-72.html#post8133316

What he fails to realise is that some of us mere police pilots have, and then some!

I wonder, how would he would view someone with a job flying in the Himalayas, finishing their employment there and then getting a job flying with NPAS?

.... or perhaps she was referring to herself ;)


I particularly like the conversation on that thread that goes;

YOP
The pilot selection interview must be interesting with your company.
I guess your fellow pilots have to fit the same parameters?
What I'd give to spend a month with you guys :ok:



Namaste Ye Olde Pilot.....................interview process is a bit like any other, but the best is; be at the right place at the right time :eek: I was poached :ooh: Throw us Your CV, there's always a chance :ok:


Love to see that CV :ok:

[Thomas coupling]

SS: See what I mean - you're answering your own posts now:uhoh:
Of those 3068 posts how many are on this thread? 70+% maybe?

The job must be getting you down, how many years u been doin it now old boy. Time for a change perhaps - spread your wings and flyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Time to close this whole NPAS tyhread down methinks SP?:zzz:




It is the Mk 3 version. What would be the start point for Mk 4? ;)

Splot

[SilsoeSid]

SS: See what I mean - you're answering your own posts now

I don't think so, 3 different posts covering 3 different points referring to 3 different remarks from the same username. Not answering my own posts, answering different points, separately :rolleyes:



Of those 3068 posts how many are on this thread? 70+% maybe?

Maybe I like to post in threads the subject of which I know something about and not, like some, flitter around talking nonsense in threads I have no place in ;)

Looking at the number of posts on this thread, how does 70+% of 3069 equal 298? :ok:

[Nail The Dream]

YOP,

I find the majority of your posts to be either rude, offensive,
Mis-informed, politically biased, anti-establishment,
or just plain wrong !

I can't see that you have contributed anything
to the topic of an NPAS discussion !

So, if you don't have anything useful to add - why don't you just leave it ?

Nail.

[jayteeto]

YOP, today's Liverpool echo story. 8yr old boy seriously injured after hit and run by two scrambler bikes in Bootle. Another incident, thankfully not fatal THIS time.

THIS is why we SHOULD go after these youths on bikes!!

They injure, maim and kill people on a regular basis. This is NOT police baiting, these are real crimes! When will you understand that police camera action is not the REAL world?