iPhone - Aircraft Mode - not enough for some

[JFZ90]

Was on an Iberia flight the other day and put my iPhone into Airplane Mode when requested.

This was not enough for the cabin crew who asked that I completely shut down the phone. I politely pointed out I thought that "Airplane Mode" was invented for this scenario, but they were insistent so I turned it off completely without a fuss.

Is this normal on some airlines? It seems likely that she was not mistaken as surely she seemed to specifically suggest that Airplane mode wasn't enough. Which other airlines do this, and why don't they trust Airplane Mode?

[Dash8driver1312]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do...

It's easiest and best to do as requested, to be honest. Your phone won't be damaged for its time out, and the nice ladies don't have an anecdote at the end of the day of another pax who tried to tell them their job...

[zondaracer]

What phase of flight were you in? If you were below 10,000ft then airplane mode is not acceptable in just about every company I can think of. Airplane mode is for using your device above 10,000ft.

[mixduptransistor]

Every flight I'm on the FAs require you to turn it off and explicitly say "any device with an airplane mode must be powered off. Airplane mode is not sufficient"

[JFZ90]

to be clear i wasn't questioning doing as told, but whether the policy to shut it off completely was common.

judging from the replies above it suggests it is, but many times i've heard that "phones with a flight safe mode myst have that enabled now" (for t/o etc.). this implies the apple flight mode is sufficient.

pretty sure (or at least it seems) airplane mode is enough for e.g. easyjet in all phases of flight.

[zondaracer]

When they make the announcement, they want you to activate flight mode and then turn off your device. That way when you turn it on above 10,000 feet, it is already on airplane mode and won't start looking for a signal.

[JFZ90]

I realise I didn't really explain properly, above, what the scenario was. Usually I put the phone in Airplane Mode, and just press the off button on the iPhone so the screen goes black and isn't being/can't be used.

On the occasion above with Iberia - having put the phone in Airplane Mode and turned off the screen so it was black/off - the attendant clearly stated this was not enough and asked me to shut the phone down completely - i.e. hold the off-button for 5 secs and swipe to shut down the phone - so it has to be rebooted from scratch to start again.

My question was about the policy to insist on this complete shut down - I've only ever seen this requested once and wondered if this further step was formally trained/policy.

I suppose another question is - does an iphone in airplane mode with a black/off screen count as off? Do many airlines make the distinction?

Thinking about it is possible that the Iberia attendant was understood the difference between black screen and full shut down and took the view the phone was not technically off, whereas most don't seem to make a distinction.

[zondaracer]

I understood perfectly the first time. Screen black doesn't count. It seems that previously the other flight attendants didn't want to make a big deal about it or they thought your phone was all the way off, but in all companies that I know of, you are supposed to shut it down all the way.

[JFZ90]

OK, I see.

So attendants are trained that screen black on an iphone doesn't count?

[zondaracer]

Probably not trained specifically on the iPhone, because frankly there are thousands of different kind of electronic devices out there, but they are taught that only airplane mode and screen black is not enough.

How strict the flight attendants are depends on the individual person, for example I have seen ryanair flights push back with a handful of passengers still standing trying to get their bags in the overhead. At that point they just wanted everyone seated, and cellphones were the least of their concern.

[CUrdampilleta]

You can't run your mobile phone in take-off and landing. If electronic devices are allowed you must set up it to Airplane Mode that deactivate all networks in you phone. Well, I don't know if you wanna connect to internet what you need to do. Remember, if you're in Airplane Mode Wifi is deactivated too. So, Deactivated only your mobile networks and wifi for take-off and in the air, connect wifi.

Anyway, In Spain all airlines said "Mobile devices aren't allowed during all the fly". I can remember that in the USA isn't like this.

[benji]

IPhone black screen.... I would think it was turned off! You know the phone isn't off at black screen, if you were on the ground and someone called your black screen it would still light back up again!:p Not sure what size aircraft you were on but if I asked to test every phone I clapped eyes on Cabin Secure would never get passed.

It is my airlines policy to have phones put in flight mode 'in preparation for departure' and switched off for take off and landing. Also it's not just mobile phones that are to be switched off its all electronic devices - even kindles are required to be turned off!

zondaracer is correct as well - how this is policed depends entirely on the crew and there mood probably depends on your interaction with them. If on taxi out when pressure is on the crew to secure and pass this to the Capt if you thought that was the most appropriate time to question it (rightly or wrongly) I probably wouldnt be best impressed and would think you were being obstructive as opposed to inquisitive which you clearly are.

[M-ONGO]

It is my airlines policy to have phones put in flight mode 'in preparation for departure' and switched off for take off and landing. Also it's not just mobile phones that are to be switched off its all electronic devices - even kindles are required to be turned off!

Ludicrous really considering we use iPads on the FD these days.

[Machdiamond]

Bit of background info about where the FAA stands on this topic nowadays:

Fact Sheet ? Portable Electronics on Airplanes (http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=14774)

"FAA regulations already permit the airlines to demonstrate that a tablet computer will not create interference in the cabin as well as the cockpit. However, an airline would have to conduct extensive analysis and testing to address the differences in where the tablets are used, emissions from multiple tablets, and other considerations to demonstrate that unrestricted use would not interfere with any of the aircraft safety systems".

and

"Ultimately, testing is the responsibility of each airline."

There are press reports of a few days ago suggesting that the FAA would recommend allowing airplane mode during takeoff and landing but I could not find the source on the FAA website.

--M

[Flying Wild]

Ludicrous really considering we use iPads on the FD these days.

Indeed, considering my airline uses them as an EFB for ALL phased of flight.

[Flying Daruma]

No matter how ludicrous it really may be, unfortunately each FA is bound by the rules and regulation of the FAA (or some equivalent overseas) and therefore are required to carry out their duty.

Hopefully this will change sometime in the near future though so we don't have to chase people around asking them to turn off their phones and tablets.

[JFZ90]

I fully understand why FAs have to abide by the rules.

I realise now that strictly speaking all iphones have to be fully shut off, though initially i thought that flight mode was sufficient and that the take off landing ban on use was just so FAs gad passengers attention if required. This is not the case.

The FA on iberia just noticed that when asked to shut it off I only put it in flight mode and put it in my pocket (I obviously was not trying to use it as I know thats not allowed)

There is a poster above confused about black screen - if in flight mode there is no RF so it can't ring in black screen mode. This is kind of the point, though I also understand there is technically a risk of interference with RF off, though in practice it is trivial. RF interference is a bit different, and can be annoying for comms.

[lj101]

Allowing more ipad use in flight recommended by FAA goup.....

Allowing More IPad Use in Flight Recommended by FAA Group - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-27/allowing-more-ipad-use-in-flight-recommended-by-faa-group.html)

Airline passengers should be allowed to read e-books, send e-mail and browse websites throughout flights of Wi-Fi equipped planes, including during takeoff and landing, an advisory committee to the Federal Aviation Administration has concluded, a person familiar with panel’s work said today.

[howard2107]

If its switched on and in flight mode, flight mode can be switched off to detonate a bomb.

Above 10000 ft, it will be out of range of the mobile network, so can't be used to detonate a bomb whatever setting it is on.

If it is switched off, then it is a benefit to all, it can pose no danger, and more importantly, the bloody thing wont ring and annoy anyone.

I look at it this way, the airline owns the plane and makes the rules, the crew enforce the rules, and we abide by them or make alternative travel arrangements. :ok:

[Ramper1]

I think you'll find at Easyjet airplane mode is not enough. The PA specifically states and as done for a few years that " devices with a flight safe mode should have this feature enabled now. THEY SHOULD THEN BE SWITCHED OFF for take off and landing. ". Some devices may be used when airborne, please see the inflight magazine for more information. "

Maybe you should listen to the PAs that are being made instead of talking!!!!!

[Gulfstreamaviator]

and not in SAFE mode....

I read somewhere perhaps 30% are in lockers in an operational mode.

[regional_flyer]

I'm a bit uptight when it comes to electronic devices and make a point of telling passengers that flight mode + black screen isn't enough, because that is exactly what our PAs say ("Your mobile phone should already be turned off, and can only be used in flight mode once the fasten seatbelt sign has been turned off. If your device is still on, please ensure you switch it to flight mode prior to turning it off.")

The way I see it - interference aside - is that if the phone is turned completely off then it means more effort/waiting on the passenger's part to boot it back up, and they will more than likely wait until 10,000ft as opposed to using it the second the crew walks away.

The great thing about smart phones is the majority of them are similar to the iPhone when powering them down - holding down the power button and swiping/tapping a message on the screen. However, I've asked someone to turn their phone off before, at first they put it in their shirt pocket with the screen still on, then when asked again they retrieve it and put it in the seat pocket (screen still clearly on!). Some people seem to think we're stupid :rolleyes:

I read somewhere perhaps 30% are in lockers in an operational mode.

I always like getting passengers that make the extra effort to quickly pull out their bag to make sure their phone is off (or even admit they forgot to turn it off and are doing so now). It may seem trivial to some, but at least some people care enough to do as the PAs ask :)

[aewaite17]

I honestly don't get it.... As a passenger, it is quite simple.

Flight mode as you walk to the aircraft.
Then off.
Then on again when permitted you can so you can play games / read / music etc.
Then off again when told.
Then on and f/m off when you have cleared passports and customs.

It seems so simple, and really winds me up when others seem incapable of following some quite easy instructions. Do they honestly believe that they are so important that they simply ~must~ have their phone on at all times?

[fujii]

From Avweb today.

Personal Electronic Devices (PEDs) are safe for use in all phases of flight on almost all aircraft, according to information soon to be released by an FAA advisory committee and made available to The Wall Street Journal. The committee's conclusions reportedly include scores of recommendations that include lifting current restrictions on WiFi use below 10,000 feet. The recommendations refer specifically to devices used to access onboard WiFi services. The findings are expected to add weight to arguments that support gate-to-gate use of personal electronics in the passenger cabin of commercial aircraft. Cellular access has not been approved. And for many commercial flights the recommendations may not usher in substantial changes.

[Tray Surfer]

Until the UK CAA tell me otherwise, I will be sticking with the current guidelines issued to us, and enforcing them to the best of my ability.

[RTN11]

Ramper1 beat me to it

judging from the replies above it suggests it is, but many times i've heard that "phones with a flight safe mode myst have that enabled now" (for t/o etc.). this implies the apple flight mode is sufficient.

You've missed the end of the PA where they say "and then switched off" so in full what they're trying to say is turn flight mode on, turn the phone off, then if you turn the phone on in flight it should automatically be in flight mode, although this may not be true of all phones.

Where is this 10,000 feet thing coming from for when you can start using electronic devices? The PA says they must not be used during take off and landing, but can be used for the rest of the flight.

For me, the take off is complete by any definition when the captain releases the cabin crew, and they make all their announcements about the toilet, the smoke detector, and the in flight service, typically at about 1-2000'. At this point I always break out my tablet and start my in flight entertainment, several times in row 1 right in front of the cabin crew with no objections raised.

It is then polite to put all electronics away when the pilots call for the cabin to be secured at 10 mins to landing.

Is there a specific FAA thing about 10,000', or has it just been made up on here?

[TightSlot]

The 10,000 feet thing is because different airlines/legislative bodies have slightly different procedures. I the UK, for example, most airlines would switch the signs on at 10,000 feet for landing - but not all. In other countries, the signs come on a 20,000 feet with cabin prep done at Top Of Drop.

Seems to me that what you're doing now is the right thing.

[AndyPandy068]

Mobile phones in ‘flight mode’ do not transmit in the strict understanding of the word. However any electronic device has an Intermediate Frequency, which oscillates. This is where the confusion arises. Any device with power going through its circuit ‘can’ cause interference via its IF. Many years ago this was not quite as clearly understood as it is today. So the consensus was to turn everything off. However as you are now seeing regulatory bodies have come to realise they offer no issues with aircraft systems and the move is to allow electronics to be more widely used on flights. FAs are generally taught to have devices turned off, and unless they are electronic engineers with a full understanding of such things it’s not unreasonable for them to demand you power it down completely. WiFi is already on aircraft with some airlines, and more will follow. Maybe even pico cells for mobile use – that will be a crying shame in my opinion, the last bastion of peace and quiet – but I still expect everything will remain required to be off while the fasten seatbelt signs are on for the foreseeable future. If in doubt turn it off, pressing a button for three seconds to turn it on after 15 minutes is hardly one of life’s trials. :ok:

[Lone_Ranger]

From experience, many would do well to turn the damn thing off and perhaps take a book onboard? , of course a prerequisite being the ability to read.

[Dave Gittins]

What is so infuriating is the inconsistencies without any apparent logic.

Fopr example in the UK (and on UK airlines) the message is clear that electronic devices are to remain OFF until safely inside the terminal building.

In the US the cabin crew generally PA (in a weary tone) turning off the runway onto the taxiway that "Those that must can turn yer phones back on now".

In most planes my Ipad has to be off below 10,000 ft. In my plane I'd get lost if it was off.

I've flown with plenty of flight instructors who keep their Ipads and phones fully GSM enabled and who have been emailing, texting and receiveing weather updates with them.

[redsnail]

Nearly all the airlines I've flown with insist that the phones be turned off below 10,000". Flight mode alone is not sufficient.
In the last 6 months I've flown with
easyJet
BA
Lufthansa
SAS
TAROM
Aeroflot
and probably a couple of others I can't remember.

[Miss F]

My airline also insists on flight mode before powering off. We ask this to reduce that miniscule chance that your lithium battery that's in it doesn't explode. It may seem extremely far fetched but it could happen so we like to eliminate that extremely remote chance...

[SidT]

Surely the only way to ensure that "miniscule risk" of battery explosion is to ensure that all electronic devices (that have that same or similar battery in them) remain switched off for the entire duration of the flight. There is no difference in risk of explosion from the battery whilst below 10k ft or above (or at whatever point your particular airline allows the use of devices to begin again).

Whilst I appreciate you don't make the rules, but have to enforce them, it is this kind of mis-informed rule making/enforcement that drives me crazy.....

Also, since many airlines allow the use of iPad's and other similar devices on the Flight Deck (often at all stages of flight), it would seem that applying this rule for the PAX/SLF is slightly two-faced (again I appreciate you don't make the rules but have to apply them!) :)

[adelta]

I'm with aewaite17 - this is how I behave on flights. I follow the rules and always have my devices off for take-off and landing, and they are always in flight mode before I even board the plane.

I fly a fair bit between the UK and Spain and pretty much always see people on their phones and using them when the plane is taxiing or taking off.

Do the cabin crew ever pull them up on it? Even when they walk by doing the seatbelt check. Not in my experience. That is frustrating.

[Flying Daruma]

I think it's up to the individual whether they choose to enforce the rules or turn a blind eye. I know for certain at my airline that generally 99% of the time we're fairly strict on pax when it comes to turning off their electronic devices when we secure the cabin for take off.

[rxziebel]

For takeoff and landing, turning off the electronics is not a problem. Who wants to look at an email or e-read a book when there is a great view out the window?? :)