CROSSAIR: Hired !

[rock_the_tower]

Folks !

Just want to share my excitement with you.

Got the magic phone-call from Crossair recently and look forward to start on June 5th in Basel/Switzerland. Looking either into the SAAB 2000, Avro 85/100 or the new ERJ-145. Anybody else out there who will start on June 5th in Basel ??

Cheers

rtt

[HomerSimpson]

Congratulations,

I wish I was starting with you. However, I have to finish off my IR course first!
How many hours do you have and what type of licence UK ATPL of JAA ATPL? I ask as not many people seem to get jobs in Europe.

Regards,
Homer ;)

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Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts

[rock_the_tower]

Homer

I have logged only 230 hrs including 50 hrs multi on a Seneca. Did all training in Switzerland including CPL/IR and did my frozen ATPL with HORIZON in Bülach.Took me about 2.5 years from 1st hour of flight until CPL/IR checkride and ATPL completed. Had to work 100% though to get the bucks in in my pocket. In the long run it cost me roughly 65'000 US$.But finally it paid off. Applied for Crossair October 2000 and then had my assessment in November followed by the sim-check ride and interview. They kept me waiting until last week to say I am accepted.
Now I am desperately waiting for June 5th to start.

I don't think it is to much of a problem to apply at Crossair with a UK ATPL. They are still looking for pilots and with the move of the former Crossair CEO Moritz Suter into the position of the SAir Lines CEO, Crossair will probably take over more Swissair routes in the next two years and this means more pilots.
Give it a try, it is worth it !

All the best and good luck !

rtt

[QNH1013]

Congratulations!
It's great when all the hard work and effort pays off. I'm sure it would have been more relief than excitment af first!
Enjoy the course in June, looks like you've got some time to go wild before all the work starts again. :-)

[Teroc]

Well done Rock - Congratulations.
Another PPruner over the wall :)

Teroc

[Dr. Feelgood]

Congrats RTT !!

I'll be starting my TQ with CRX in May. Guess I'll C U around there sometime, someplace.

Greetz,

:) The Doctor

[foghorn]

Nice one - another ex-wannabe!

[+TS]

Hee rock the tower, congrats. with the job.
Seems that we'll start on the same course.
As far as I know it will be 6 swiss and 6
dutch guys.
looking foreward to meet you.

regs

[Naverick]

G'day All,
anyone know if Crossair will recognise ICAO ATPL(Australia), I have right to live in Europe, 2100TT 700 m/e command,
cheers

[Ivan Ivanovich]

WHat are the language requirements for Cross Air - English, presumably, but do they require a Swiss language, too. If so at what level of fluency. Would faltering French do?

Good luck.

[rock_the_tower]

Hey +TS

Great to hear that that you're on the june team at Crossair ! Heard some rumors that most likely we're put on the ERJ-145 ?! Also heard that if you are Swiss, you will be based in Zürich.
Are all 12 of us running for the F/O ? Have you received the contract yet ?

See you there !

Cheers

rtt

[rock_the_tower]

Naverick!

Just give it a try ! They are looking for pilots !

Ivan!

If your english is good, I see in principle no problem for you. However, if you speak on of the swiss languages German, French or Italian also a little bit, that would help. Nevertheless, give it a try !

Cheers and good luck to both of you !

rtt

[+TS]

Hey Towerrocker,

Sorry for late reply.
I heard that it will be E-145 or RJ85/100
As foreigners we will be Basel based and most probably on the Embraer.
Yes I received the (training)contract.
All the best

[rock_the_tower]

Aye +TS

Just got my training contract and looking forward for the June course. Do you know by chance what the failure rate at the Crossair selection board is ? Just curious, because a good friend of mine with more than 1000 hrs incl. Turbine just recently didn't make it and they sent him back into the aviation desert of unemployment. I really wonder sometimes what they are looking for ?

Anybody else who would like to comment on this ?

C ya

rtt

[Approaching_the_minimums]

Hi lads,

for you guys interested in applying for CROSSAIR, check out

http://www.crossair.com/de/unsere_firma/career/firstofficer/index.html

I applied a couple a days ago, cross my fingers and......

ciao

[rock_the_tower]

Approaching

Cross my fingers for you !
The new procedures within the selection process are now in force: You will first have your Sim-check ride and then an interview. If you pass this successfully, you will be invited for the next step which is the assessment (group and single), psychological tests and written ATPL test. If you pass this one as well, your file will be discussed on the final board meeting.At all steps I was treated very well. The folks there are very kind !
However, be prepared to wait quite a long time for the final decision since they are short of staff and in a restructuring phase.

I wish you good luck and see you soon in the ops center !

Cheers

rtt

[Tor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Holder of either a JAR-CPL / IR licence or a CPL / IR licence which has been initially issued before July 1st 1999. This is NOT valid if you are holder of a CPL / IR licence issued in the following countries: Denmark, Iceland, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland or United Kingdom (according to FOCA in Switzerland)! </font>

What does that mean? Is Crossair not accepting a national license from either of these contries?

Furthermore, is the language requirement in-dispensable (no French, German or Italian http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif)?

---
Well, en petit peu francaise maitenant :)

[This message has been edited by Tor (edited 08 March 2001).]

[rock_the_tower]

Tor

I suggest you check those questions with Mrs. Nadja Stoecklin of Crossair directly via e-mail [email protected]
She is the chief secretary of pilot selection at Crossair and a very nice person and will try to help you. However, since they are short of staff, it might take a while until you get an answer.

Good luck !

rtt

[Tor]

rock_the_tower -

Thanks, will do!

What does this training contract include? Four years of bondage and no salary :) ? No seriously, what's their conditions?

Best of luck with the type.

Kind regards

Tor

[Ivan Ivanovich]

Tor

Please would you be kind enough to post whatever answers you get to your questions. I couldn't understand the licence exclusion bit either. I'm also interested to hear just how little French/German/Italian you could get away with! CV's in the post anyway.

Thanks - Ivan.

[rock_the_tower]

Tor

The training contract covers all legal aspects until you are checked out as a first officer. You also have to sign a paper which shows the entire cost of training (MCC, CRM, type rating etc.). Bondage is 36 months. During the training period your monthly salary is about half what you get when you are checked-out first officer. You better save some money before you start in order to cover your fixed costs during the training period.
Well the pay at the beginning is not so exciting. However, they give low hour guys like me the chance to work for the future career. If I would have want to make a lot of money, a bank or insurance company job would have been better. But are these jobs so rewarding like flying a nice decent jet and spending significant amount of time in the sun sipping a good coffee and having good company ?? I guess not.
I do not need the big bucks, just want to be happy and enjoy the job I do.

Go for it and all the best !

rtt

[Tor]

Hi rtt,

Doesn't sound too bad in my opinion, in fact very reasonable.

I will post whatever reply I get to the enquiries I mailed to Crossair.

Kind regards

Tor

[WAPPY]

Congrats Rock!!

I also applied at Crossair. Can you tell a little more about the sim check and the ATPL written test.
Thx.

[ronchonner]

ok guys, i will give you some info about crossair.
crossair receive thousand of applications each month.they can hire only 20 % of non swiss citizen.no, they are not looking for pilots.they hire pilots when they need but there is NO shortage of pilot in switzerland.
300 news CPL each year pilot in switzerland are trained by the small schools.
if you want a chance to be hired , you will have to pay the 70'000$ to horizon.
it s not a question if you are good or not, it as a question if you are a good payer.
I ve always refused to lick the ass of this school(horizon).they asked me to pay myself the coffee when i came for an interview with Horizon.it s very expensive and the OFAC (swiss CAA) is runed by some old daddies who do nt know what they want.
if you are accepted by crossair, be ready to fly 100h/months, 6 legs /day, no week end, 15h work per day,no vacations...
pilots do nt like to work for crossair, you are paid the salary of a flight attendant.
to be hired by Crossair, look like a dream, but after a while, you will see, that Crossair SUCKS!!!if you are not Swiss, few chance to be hired...and even for swiss citizen , it s hard!

bye


an ICAO ATP pilot

[Tor]

Were you turned down. Maybe it's because your certificate is FAA? Was it the conversion that costs 70.000?

I have no problem with employers who want get the most from their employees. There are rules in Europe, and as long the are not broken..

As for the salary, I would say that it's not uncommen that you are not going to be a millionaire when flying for commuters.

Infact I think that the terms described by rock_the_tower are very fair considered they are taking on lowtimers (beats sightseeing or arial photography by lightyears).

As for this Horizon you mention, what has they got to do with it?

Cheer up

Tor http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/icons/icon12.gif

[This message has been edited by Tor (edited 14 March 2001).]

[ronchonner]

yes, u are right...they do nt like FAA license.
one day, they will boycott JAR licenses and will onlt accept the new JAR 2 (maybe in 2005, harder, more expensive).
crossair does nt accept licenses done before 1999(in fact its the swiss goverment who does nt know what they want).ouf, i saved 75'000 dollars.but anyway, with my experience , i can found a job somewhere else...

[Tor]

Oups - dollars! What did you have to pay that kind of money for?

I'm checking up on the 1999 thing at the moment, still waiting for a reply.

Don't you think that "thousands of applications" is a little bit exagerated? If not, I can't seem to understand how th "pilots don't like to work for Crossair" fits in http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

[ronchonner]

no, it s really thousand of application they received...
i was in the USA to apply for a job on lear.they guys shows me a stack of resume of 20cm high (but it s the USA).
lot of schools said :CROSSAIR NEED PILOTS...
some have to refund their bank of 70'000 dollars and they have nt been accepted by Crossair.So what do they do with 250h and a swiss ATPL (frozen).
Aviation in Europe is a risky investment, you can lose all your money and ever fly for a company.And even if you get ajob, it will take 10 years to reimburse your loan!
why we do nt find job, because aviation schools let us dream and make big money with their #%#& advertisings!
and I fall in this catch too!
so, please stop to fly, start dreaming... :)

atp pilot

[AMEX]

Think "Ronchonner" needs an update. Mates of mine work for Xair, aren't swiss, haven't joined Horizon and are up for a command a year after joining. Money is bout 2000£ cleared (continental Europe is equivalent to 2500$ UK). Some yanks working for them as well (since "Ronchonner" holds an FAA licence but to honest be I don't know under what licence). As far as aviation in europe is concerned, if you have about a 1000h or if you have less but with a bit of luck then times never looked so good.
[Edited because I enjoyed my Guinness too much]

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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe :)

[This message has been edited by AMEX (edited 14 March 2001).]

[rock_the_tower]

Wappy

Sorry for the late reply !
Crossair has just changed their selection mode recently.

You're first invited for the SIM-Check Ride on a Frasca 242 and then you'll have an interview with a Commander. The SIM-Check is standard stuff SID, air work, Intercepts QDM QDR, STAR, Holdings, Procedure Turns, Non-Precision and Precision Approaches (Airports of choice include to my knowledge Basel, Stuttgart, Strasbourg, Luxembourg, Brussels and Dusseldorf. Sometimes Friederichshafen is also used). Nevertheless they want to see if you are able to do good IFR work and show leadership. Basic orientation is a MUST so make very sure that you are an expert on the QDM, Radial and interception stuff (I am not joking !!). Some experts try to test your multitasking skills during the airwork with additional questions like "when was your father born ? followed by the question which day of the this is ? (I tell you that these questions do not help you to feel good. I actually got a couple of similar ones during the checkride). They want to check if you stick to the procedures and stay cool and fly the f***ing plane. Want to see if you can set priorities.The entire check-ride lasts about 1 hr 20 min. After that you will have a standard debriefing.
The interview is standard stuff (why do you want to fly ?.........)in a very relaxed atmosphere.

If the SIM-check and the interview was within their requirements, they will invite you for the group- and single assessment, psychological tests, intelligence tests and the ATPL test.
Group assessment (lasts 30 minutes: the group has to solve the given problem within 30 minutes)
Single assessment (depending on your performance in the group assessment you will be given a topic where you have 7 minutes of time to prepare yorself. Then you have another 7 minutes to present yourself in front of two "assessors")
Psychological tests (Write an essay on a specific picture, "Wartegg-Test" (you'll find some info about htis test on several internet sites)and lots of other tests)
ATPL ( 40 questions (8 different topics, 5 questions each)to meteo, human performance, aerodynamics, systems etc.)

After that you will be notified by a phone call that you succeeded or mail normal mail that you failed. In my case it took them 10 weeks until the magic phone call !

Hope, this will help you.
Good luck and let us know how it was for you!

rtt

[rock_the_tower]

Ronchonner

Seems like you got a negative answer from CRX ? I also have some capacity problems with the "thousands of applications a month" ! According to my informations, CRX is performing about 4 group assessemnts a month with a maximum of 8 candidates each. This sums up to 32 guys'n gals a month. The bottleneck for theit screening is the SIM-check. They are obviously only capable to screen two candidates a day which makes 10 a week and roughly 40 a month and about 450 a year. When I did my tests at CRX in November and December 2000 they told us that CRX needs 180 new pilots for 2001. However, I had some fellows which did their tests in January and February 2001 where they didn't mention these 180 anymore. Nevertheless, with the expansion plans of CRX, I still believe that there is a need for new pilots. Maybe not at the levels of the years before.
The actual Swiss pilot fraction in the starting classes is quite low (In February 2 out of 19 were Swiss !). As foreigners you have good chances to get in without spending 70'000 US$ to HORIZON. I did my CPL/IR/ATPL theoretical training with HORIZON. On the bottom line, quite a good school (but expensive !,), however depends on the instructors as everywhere else. And by the way, the coffee at HORIZON's place is free.
All my flight training I did with the Swiss Pilot School Association at Zürich airport. It is simply not true that you only get into CRX with all training performed at HORIZON.
I heard that most of the candidates fail due to their psychological profile. All the best flight training doesn't help you to get the job. If you don't fit their psycho-mask, you're history within CRX. This is not a special CRX-selection tool. All arlines more or less use these kind of tools.
So Ronchonner calm down. I bet you'll find a good job somewhere else.

Have a nice day'n good luck !

rtt

[abfgh]

Hey AMEX, CRX has now a seniority system, which means that it will be impossible to be up for a command after one year of joining. The union is also thinking to make it compulsory to speak at least one local language. But it is tru, we do need pilots.

[AMEX]

abfgh: Maybe I have been misinformed then but this is what I understood. If working for CRX 2500TT incl 500 hrs on type. If external (i.e direct entry Captain as advertised recently) 3000TT. Though I don't recall if the latter required a Type rating (suppose so).

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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe :D

[Tor]

rock_the_tower,

Are you sure that it's the right e-mail for
Mrs. Nadja Stoecklin of Crossair ([email protected]), you gave me?

Havn't heard from her for 10 days now.

Kind regards

Tor

[rock_the_tower]

Tor

They're obviously very busy. I have doublechecked the e-mail address and it should be ok. However, try to give them a call or send a fax. You'll find the info below:

CROSSAIR Pilot Selection

Office Hours: Mo - Fr 09:00 -11:00 / 14:00 -16:00
Phone Hours: Mo - Fr 09.00 -12:00 / 14:00 -16:30

-Responsible Persons:
Nadja Stoecklin, NJS, Head of Secretary( +41 61 325 4458
e-mail: [email protected]
or
Nadine Baecke, CKN, Secretary( +41 61 325 7736
e-mail: [email protected]

Fax Pilot Selection: +41 61 325 7004

-Address:
crossair, Pilot Selection (FPR)
„Bâtiment du Catering"
Postfach
CH-4002 Basel
Switzerland

Hope that it will work and good luck !

Best regards

rtt