View Full Version : How low can I go?----Flying wise!
Rusty Cessna
25th Feb 2001, 18:39
My dad has just bought himself a wee yacht and he asked me if it was possible for me to over-fly it when he was sailing, relatively out so sea and take a few low level piccies of it.
I was just wondering what the rules stipulating low level flight over sea are.... I mean I would imagine I would be subject to Rule 5, and so couldn't fly within 500 feet of the yacht, but is there any stipulation on vertical altitude? I don't want to go breaching any rules that's all!!
Regards
Rusty
I believe rule 5 applies laterally and vertically Rusty.
Always be aware of those 'anti-aviation' types who will drop a dime to the authority without a moments thought.
Rules are rules. When you're flying those fast-uns in the Navy then you might be able to legally!
Regards, VFE.
Skippymon
25th Feb 2001, 19:34
Yes Rule 5 does apply in all directions, but srictly speaking it is in relation to any man made object or person, (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think thats it) not in fact the sea. so in theory you could go as low as you like as long as you are always at least 500ft from your boat. watch out for the bowl effect when flying low over water as it distortes your perception of height.
Rusty Cessna
25th Feb 2001, 19:45
Skippy thats exactly the point I was driving at, ta muchly!!
Rusty.
AffirmBrest
25th Feb 2001, 20:52
Please tell me you will get someone ELSE to take pictures of the yacht while you are flying LL over the sea...and that you are in a twin...
A pilot's skill is better determined by his ability to keep himself OUT of dangerous situations, not how well he performs in them!
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
Rusty Cessna
25th Feb 2001, 21:12
Yes Ill have me other half takin the piccies, and no it will be a 152, but its not going to be out to sea, as in OUT to sea, prob only about a half mile from land and about 10 miles from airport! :)
Rusty
:) :) :)
SpeedBird22
25th Feb 2001, 21:23
Planes and yachts? Its a good life ain't it?
SB22
HomerSimpson
26th Feb 2001, 01:42
How the other half live hey?........ http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
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Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts
CloudWarrior
26th Feb 2001, 02:46
as stated rule 5 applies! but even if it didn't you could always be 'done' for recklessly endangering you're aircraft, could be interesting if the engine failed!
BigAir
26th Feb 2001, 03:02
At least if you did have engine trouble, you would have a convenient yacht to rescue you!!!
If you do it, make sure you take a look at the CAA General Abiation Safety Sense Number 21A - Ditching, before you fly. According to that 88% of ditchings are succesful without injury to pilots or passengers. However, of those roughly 50% of the survivors die before being rescued, so make sure if the noise goes, that you get as close to a boat as possible.
If you get weather like today, it should be a good trip!
enjoy it!
Bigair
I am really sorry to sound like a burk but what part of .....oh.....sod it!
RC ring me. Get my number off TPuk, I am waiting mate.
Regards, VFE.
matelot
26th Feb 2001, 12:03
Would the low flying rule apply even with permission? Suppose I owned both yacht and plane, and asked the pilot to do what Rusty has been asked. Is it still a no-no?
Any obs? Interesting.
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Me, sweat? I'm that cool, it's condensation.
AffirmBrest
26th Feb 2001, 12:34
Still a no-no. You can't waive the reqts of Rule 5 even with 'permission' - save CAA display authorisation or equivalent.
IMHO to fly lower than 500' over a large expanse of water, in a serviceable single engined light aircraft - you'd have to be INSANE, stupid or both. There are just too many 'what if?'s for my liking.
You want to fly LL? Join the RAF. It is fun, and I can understand the temptation. However, exercise some self-discipline here and you will definitely live to do the fun stuff!
Before y'all write me off as a complete fuddy-duddy, try something which has always helped me when I am in doubt as to the sense of a particular course of action:
Write the accident report in your head, and if your reaction on reading it would be either "What a tw@t", "Serves him right" or something similiar (we've all thought it at one time when reading other BOI reports!") - then DON'T GO!
Hope you manage to continue to have fun in your flying regardless.
AB
Jimmy Mack
26th Feb 2001, 12:52
As far as I remember the rule states "No CLOSER than 500 feet from any person, place vessel or structure".
So in theory you could fly alongside the yacht 500 feet laterally from it, 2 feet off the sea. However, the risks are pretty high...gust of wind, seagull flying past the propellor - I know both of these that have happened to people at my flying club. They got away with it...this time!
One 'tip' from an old instructor of mine. If you do want to fly low....never low & slow...do it with a lot of speed and plenty of up trim.
The best 'low' flying for the sensation of speed is skimming the top of a cloud...and provided you've got an IMC, that's legal.
I'll wait for a good telling off from you guys now for suggesting this is possible!
:rolleyes:
RichT
26th Feb 2001, 13:03
YOu probably know this but in C150/152 if you open the window in flight the window will stay up giving you a clearer shot. Keep ya seat belt on though.
Perhaps you would post a coupke of your piccies on the web when you have done them.
Rusty
Why not take that yacht somewhere else? A sailing adventure to Cape Town might be fun!
Always remember that the UK rules don't always apply elsewhere. For example, so far I believe the UK is the only country in the world that overtakes on the left while taxying! (There is a separate thread on this in 'Private Flying', unfortunately without many contributors).
In good old South Africa they have a nice sensible low flying rule of not less than 500' above ground or water "....unless the flight can be made without hazard or nuisance to persons or property on the ground or water."
As a low time pilot, I've been warned on a couple of occasions that if my friends want to go for a jolly to take photos of their house, there can be a bit of risk involved, usually from complying with a request from the photographer to do something to get a better shot and thereby losing situational awareness. It's been driven home that those minima are there for a reason!
Also suggest you have a look at this.
http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/fsa/download/00nov/18-19.pdf
Good luck with getting your photographs though - I hope they turn out well!
Remember that it is also a legal requirment for you to have life jackets and a raft on board if you fly a certain distance out to sea.
DOC.400
26th Feb 2001, 21:45
With a decent telephoto lens and a 400asa film, you'll get fine pictures from 1000-1500'.
Flying AND sailing -I thought that just comes naturally!
Have fun!
eyeinthesky
27th Feb 2001, 01:46
I concur with many of the comments so far. You might also like to consider the fact that if you are closer than 500ft as you fly by you might find it difficult to get a good picture as the relative movement will be quite fast.
Having said all that and noting the foregoing comments, bear in mind that you can still be within gliding distance of a deserted beach at 500 AMSL and 100 kts and convert speed to height if the donkey quits. It just depends how many risks you want to take.
I hesitated before writing the following, but I bet many people thought it anyway. If you are going to break the law, if only you and your partner in crime (on the yacht) know, then you've only got your own conscience to worry about. Many people speed down the motorway; they just hope there's not a radar gun on the next bridge. The parallels are there. Just make sure you don't buzz some bloke on a lilo on the run-in...
Don't think I'm telling you to break the law. Only you can decide that. :) :)
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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
Rusty Cessna
27th Feb 2001, 02:19
Thanks for all the info everyone, its all heeded. Just to let everyone know, if I do do this, it will be no more than a mile away from land, and there is no way Im going to fly lower than 500ft, and I wasnt intending on going that low. The thread wasnt actually to say can I do this, I have no intention of dangering the aircraft, people in it or anything or body on the ground, I just wondered at the rules, because in Barbados I was flying at 50Ft.
As I say Im not going to be stupid, have complacent or anti-authoritarian behaviour and im certainly not going to break the law!
Rusty.
scroggs
27th Feb 2001, 02:43
If you are going to do this on a weekday, I'd strongly suggest you contact the RAF low flying co-ordinators at LATCC West Drayton (I think they're still thre - there should be a contact number at your club's ops desk) and check whether any military low-flying is planned for your location. You don't want to be concentrating on your pattern around your boat while a pair of Tornados (with not-very-wonderful visual look-out properties) whistle by at 420kts. Better safe than sorry.....
pitotheat
27th Feb 2001, 22:31
Another hazard at low level at sea are birds. A seagull will do a lot of damage to a C152 at 100 knots.
Use a good telephoto lenses and stick to a sensible and legal height. Why risk your hard-earned licence for a few seconds of thrills. I am sure your Dad would not want you to do this if he knew the risks.