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Trim Stab
24th Sep 2013, 10:46
I just installed it and really regret it. Yes, I read reviews before doing so, but they don't tell the reality.

For a start, the look is utterly hideous in my view. Jarring and unpleasant to use.

They've also taken out features that are really useful to me - e.g. no more Wikipedia search on Spotlight, and no more "Places" view in the Photo App (that map with red pins to show all the places you have taken photos).

Apple have rather spitefully now made it impossible to downgrade back to 6.1.3 so I am stuck with the hideous look.

Flap 5
24th Sep 2013, 10:56
Apple have rather spitefully now made it impossible to downgrade back to 6.1.3 so I am stuck with the hideous look.

Apple spiteful? Who'd have thought?

They have been spiteful since their inception. They have never made products which were compatible with anything that Bill Gates made. All because of some previous disagreement.

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 11:18
As mentioned in another thread here, my other half also hates the look since the change. It's a personal thing, I suspect, but having looked at it I do have to agree it seems a bit garish now.

As for Apple being spiteful, I did encounter what I suspect is an example of this at the weekend. She has a gadget that plugs in and allows some types of photo to be transferred from a camera memory card. This gadget isn't an expensive Apple one, but used to work OK, you just plug it in, plug in the camera memory card and the photos would transfer across. If this gadget is plugged in now that the iPad has been upgraded an error message appears, saying that this device is not compatible. It seems that Apple are trying to make third party hardware into ornaments and force customers to buy their own expensive gadgets.

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 11:21
I suspect we might see a few tweaks to the user interface along the way. Also, to bring a bit of balance to your argument, there are also a number of good things about iOS7.

Probably like Marmite, in its present form, most people will either love it or hate it. Hopefully it should mature and improve with age though.

As for....

Apple have rather spitefully now made it impossible to downgrade back to 6.1.3 so I am stuck with the hideous look.

I'm sorry, but spiteful is far too harsh. You've obviously never been involved in software/hardware development in your life. :ugh:

Officially yes, a downgrade is unsupported. For a variety of reasons evidently too complex for you to understand.

However a few minutes on Google might find you with unofficial instructions.

And this .....
It seems that Apple are trying to make third party hardware

Is utter bull. Apple design and manufacture their own hardware. Its one of the best things about the platform, the tight integration between hardware and software along with the stability etc that brings.

Sure the resistors and chips inside might not be manufactured by them, but the end product is 100% Apple, its not a rebranded third party jobbie that they buy in bulk from some white label manufacturer.

ExRAFRadar
24th Sep 2013, 11:25
"Probably like Marmite"

Ugly, smells and only fit for putting on toast ;)

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 11:27
They have never made products which were compatible with anything that Bill Gates made.

More bull from the uneducated.

That's why you can plug an iPhone into a Windows PC and it works and syncs absolutely fine is it ?

That's why an Apple Mac in a Windows office can authenticate against Active Directory and retrieve files off the file server is it ?

That's why your iPhone can sync with Microsoft Exchange email is it ?

Need I say more ?

Seriously !

In recent years Apple have made much effort to increase cross-platform compatability. The same can also be said vice-versa from Microsoft's point of view.

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 11:32
mixture wrote:
And this .....
Quote:
It seems that Apple are trying to make third party hardware
Is utter bull. Apple design and manufacture their own hardware. Its one of the best things about the platform, the tight integration between hardware and software along with the stability etc that brings.

Sure the resistors and chips inside might not be manufactured by them, but the end product is 100% Apple, its not a rebranded third party jobbie that they buy in bulk from some white label manufacturer.

Sorry, it doesn't seem to be "bull" at all. I spent ten minutes trying to get the device to work at the weekend and every time I plugged it in the iPad came up with a message saying that the hardware wasn't compatible.

This same device worked perfectly well before the upgrade, she used it to transfer photos from our camera several times. It now doesn't work, and it seems too much of a coincidence to believe that this failure is just coincidental to the upgrade.

Flap 5
24th Sep 2013, 11:39
Ah! Abuse from an Apple fanboy. What a surprise. :rolleyes:

Also inaccurate and biased.

Not possible to transfer photos directly from my PC to my iPad easily using USB.

And I really can't be bothered to go into all the other incompatibilities.

Apple have good quality products. It's a shame they just want you to use their products only.

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 11:45
I'm not impressed with being dictated to by a manufacturer, to be honest (and the same applies to Microsoft in some respects).

Having bought a (pretty expensive for what it is) iPad and then having bought a small gadget (which wasn't made by Apple) to allow photos to be transferred from our camera, I don't expect the said gadget to be rendered useless by Apple in an attempt to get me to buy a new $30 gadget from them to do this job.

It seems that this is exactly what Apple have done, they seem to have done something as part of this upgrade that has deliberately stopped some non-Apple accessories from working. Frankly I think that is outrageous protectionism, on a par with a car manufacturer recalling your car and changing the wheel size such that you can only buy tyres from them in future (without telling you).

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 11:49
Ah! Abuse from an Apple fanboy. What a surprise.

(a) I'm not an Apple fanboy
(b) It was not abuse. If your original post was more balanced and not just taking the opportunity to bash Apple without reason then you might have got a better reply from me.

Fact of the matter is, holes can be poked in Android or whatever your choice of phone is. Nobody is perfect and nobody ever said Apple were perfect.

The iPhone/iPads are solid products. The vast majority of people have no problem using them on Mac or Windows. Only a minority few seem to be unable to get them to work and then proceed to throw tantrums, throw their toys out of the pram and blame Apple for their inability to use a well designed product.

ExXB
24th Sep 2013, 11:50
I upgraded the other day, the change in look and feel was a bit of a shock, but didn't change functionality, so far as I can tell

Getting used to new look the more I use it, and there are lots of tweaks to customise to my liking.

I'd give it 8 out of 10.

Edited to add, you can downgrade to previous versions of the OS, and this is facilitated by Apple - you just need to find the file from a third party site. Instructions easily found using a search engine.

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 11:53
It seems that this is exactly what Apple have done, they seem to have done something as part of this upgrade that has deliberately stopped some non-Apple accessories from working.

How about we inject a little balance into your one-sided argument.

How about we suggest that the developers of said accessories that now fail to work were developing their accessories based on unsupported APIs and reverse engineering.

Also please note that there are many third-party accessories for the iPad/iPhone which continue to work perfectly well ! Trying to accuse Apple of blocking third party accessories is utter nonsense.

The developers are to blame, not Apple.

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 12:08
Quote:
It seems that this is exactly what Apple have done, they seem to have done something as part of this upgrade that has deliberately stopped some non-Apple accessories from working.
How about we inject a little balance into your one-sided argument.

How about we suggest that the developers of said accessories that now fail to work were developing their accessories based on unsupported APIs and reverse engineering.

The developers are to blame, not Apple.

Balance?

Look, I'm a customer who has paid for a relatively expensive product. It worked very well, and we were able to transfer photos from our camera to it with ease, using a gadget we bought in a camera shop that plugs into the small socket on the side.

Apple have now arbitrarily changed the product we bought from them, after we have paid for it, such that we can no longer transfer photos from our camera without buying another $30 gadget from them.

That, plain and simply put, is outrageous behaviour. Why on earth should we, as Apple customers, be forced to go and buy another gadget just because Apple are intent on extorting more money from us? How on earth can this be the fault of the manufacturer of the camera card cable, they cannot possibly have known that Apple were going to change their software, can they? The only company at fault here is Apple, who have chosen to force existing customers spend money in order to regain the same functionality as they had when they first bought their product.

Trim Stab
24th Sep 2013, 12:16
I'm sorry, but spiteful is far too harsh. You've obviously never been involved in software/hardware development in your life.

No I haven't been involved in software development. But it was possible to downgrade until yesterday, when Apple stopped signing the downgrade file, meaning that it is now impossible. Apple could have kept signing 6.1.3 so that those who hate the new software could roll back. They have deliberately stopped signing the software to prevent this.

Officially yes, a downgrade is unsupported. For a variety of reasons evidently too complex for you to understand.

Condescending prat.

However a few minutes on Google might find you with unofficial instructions.

See above - no longer possible, for reasons that are evidently too complex for you to understand...

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 12:35
VP959,

You didn't even bother to try to understand my post did you, instead you just go repeating exactly what you said before. :ugh:

As I said, there are many third party accessories that work perfectly well. The only ones that ceased to work are those where the DEVELOPERS of said gadgets failed to use supported APIs and instead relied on unsupported APIs and reverse engineering.

Its not Apple's fault by any stretch of the imagination if developers fail to follow simple best practices when developing for any hardware/operating system, whether Apple's or anyone else's.

Widger
24th Sep 2013, 12:38
So you bought an iPad, which does not has a USB port, then you bought a third party product which presumably plugs into the docking port, in order to transfer photos in a 'round about way'. Now this third party product does not work, you blame Apple?

To transfer photos to an iPad, you should use iTunes on a desktop or laptop, with a port such as firewire or USB. You can also email or transfer files over wifi. If you choose not to use the inbuilt, seamless design of the product then you have only yourself to blame.

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 12:39
when Apple stopped signing the downgrade file, meaning that it is now impossible. Apple could have kept signing 6.1.3 so that those who hate the new software could roll back. They have deliberately stopped signing the software to prevent this.

You are purposefully choosing not to learn about the fundamental basics of the code signing process in order to support your argument against Apple.

You seem to be hell-bent on carrying on with your personal vendetta against Apple without considering there may be factors on the other side of the coin you may wish to consider.

For example, the iOS software package includes not only the Operating System, but also Firmware for the chipsets. One reason downgrading may well be unofficially unspported is due to the risks/difficulties in doing a parallel downgrade of both firmware and operating system. Its not quite as easy in concept as it is to downgrade your PC from Windows 8 to Windows 7.

Go back to your Android or whatever you're using.

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 13:13
Flaps 5 wrote:

They have never made products which were compatible with anything that Bill Gates made

If Bill Gates & Co. (actually Steve Balmer & Co. For now.) is the standard by which all else shall be judged, we might as well unplug our devices now, go home and use an Abacus instead.

How's that Surface tablet working out for Microsoft these days, eh?

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 13:29
VP959,

You didn't even bother to try to understand my post did you, instead you just go repeating exactly what you said before.

As I said, there are many third party accessories that work perfectly well. The only ones that ceased to work are those where the DEVELOPERS of said gadgets failed to use supported APIs and instead relied on unsupported APIs and reverse engineering.

Its not Apple's fault by any stretch of the imagination if developers fail to follow simple best practices when developing for any hardware/operating system, whether Apple's or anyone else's.

I cannot even begin to make out what you're trying to say. What's an "API"?

We're not talking rocket science here, this is just a cable that accepts an camera card and adapts it to the small iPad socket for goodness sake.

How one earth can the camera shop we bought it from be at fault? This cable worked perfectly well before the software change, now it doesn't, the only thing that has changed is the Apple software, we haven't done anything to the cable.

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 13:32
So you bought an iPad, which does not has a USB port, then you bought a third party product which presumably plugs into the docking port, in order to transfer photos in a 'round about way'. Now this third party product does not work, you blame Apple?

To transfer photos to an iPad, you should use iTunes on a desktop or laptop, with a port such as firewire or USB. You can also email or transfer files over wifi. If you choose not to use the inbuilt, seamless design of the product then you have only yourself to blame.

It's nothing to do with a USB port or a PC. She just wanted to transfer photos to her new iPad, went in to the camera shop, asked their advice and bought an adapter cable. It worked perfectly, in fact it didn't even need any setting up, as soon as it was plugged in it transferred the photos from the camera card automatically, nothing could have been simpler to use.

Blacksheep
24th Sep 2013, 13:34
Sorry, it doesn't seem to be "bull" at all. I spent ten minutes trying to get the device to work at the weekend and every time I plugged it in the iPad came up with a message saying that the hardware wasn't compatible.Loss of device support after OS updates isn't restricted to Apple. Its happened plenty of times on new Microsoft OS as well. As for the Win8 OS update. Good Lord! How I wish I'd never bothered. It completely trashed my HP Touchsmart which became 'touch screen' no longer. And there's no way back. Instaling Win8 wipes out the HP partitiion. :ugh:

Blacksheep
24th Sep 2013, 13:43
Incidentally, I can transfer images from my camera directly into the iPad without using any wires. They're both wi-fi devices. I can still upload my camera images to the iMac or a PC, then send them wirelessly to the iPad or any other wi-fi or bluetooth device if I choose. Most of my photos are "out there" anyhow, on the clouds, permanently embedded with my very own copyright data. Its where technology is at the moment - until the inexorable march of technology advances to the next level.



"DVD? What's a DVD Grandad?" ;)

Dak Man
24th Sep 2013, 13:45
LOL
iOS 7: users destroy iPhones after fake waterproof advert - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/10330414/iOS-7-users-destroy-iPhones-after-fake-waterproof-advert.html)
iOS 7: users destroy iPhones after fake waterproof advert
A spoof advert suggesting Apple's new iOS 7 operating system made handsets waterproof appears to have fooled some users into destroying their iPhones.

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 13:48
Blacksheep:

Yes, a DVD. Which can evoke signs of questioning from members of the younger generation.

However, I also had the dubious task of describing to my 17 year-old son what a record was. (You know, the kind which were black in color and had music on it?!!!) When I got through explaining it his only remark was "How primitive."

Eek. :eek::eek::eek:

Dak Man:

Re: the drowned iPhone. Ref: Forrest Gump. Quote: "Stupid is as stupid does." I'm quite sure that if there was a spoof claiming that the newest invention being a water-proof toaster which could even be brought into the bath with you, there are probably quite a few folks who would do so. :eek:

Dak Man
24th Sep 2013, 13:52
RGB, where do I get me one a dose toasters?

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 13:58
Dak Man:

Silly question, Walmart of course. They have a special this week on water-proof toasters which can be used in the bath.

However these new-fangled, and water-proof toasters, when used in the bath do bring new meaning to the term - toasted. :eek:

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 14:00
Blacksheep wrote:
Loss of device support after OS updates isn't restricted to Apple. Its happened plenty of times on new Microsoft OS as well. As for the Win8 OS update. Good Lord! How I wish I'd never bothered. It completely trashed my HP Touchsmart which became 'touch screen' no longer. And there's no way back. Instaling Win8 wipes out the HP partitiion.

Yes, I can accept loss of device support, happened to me when I bought a new PC and found that my scanner couldn't be made to work with it.

However, this is just an adapter cable, nothing fancy, just a short cable with a tiny plug that fits the iPad on one end and a socket on the other that takes the camera card. I can't for the life of me understand how this doesn't work, and begrudge the solution offered by the camera shop we bought it from only a couple of months ago that we need to buy a new one!

Bushfiva
24th Sep 2013, 14:08
The cables aren't simple, they're chipped.

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 14:09
VP:

The problem with your card reader is obviously driver related. Not trying to be condescending but, in case you don't already know, a driver is a piece of software which interfaces with the hardware it's responsible for.

Now, I don't know what model of iPad your wife has but what kind of connector does it have? (Lightning? USB-ish?)

The reason why I ask is because over in the Apple Support Forum there is a plethora of users complaining about their card readers not working after updating to iOS 7. So you and your wife are not alone. (As if that's any consolation!)

You may well have to buy a new adapter. But, if your wife really doesn't like iOS 7 that much why not downgrade it back to iOS 6?

Airborne Aircrew
24th Sep 2013, 14:14
The proof that Apple wants to control their devices and empty your wallet is that they re-engineered the USB cable so you can't just go and buy a bog standard mini or micro USB - you have to buy theirs at three times the price.*


* Yes, I know, you can get them from other vendors now, but the intent was the same and most people still wander mindlessly into the Apple Store and buy their overpriced stuff.

mixture
24th Sep 2013, 14:31
they re-engineered the USB cable so you can't just go and buy a bog standard mini or micro USB

There are genuine engineering reasons why Apple didn't go microUSB.

Some of them are pretty obvious, especially if you've used any of their newer devices with a Lightning connector (e.g. its reversible nature and faster transfer speed).

Some of them less so. Did you know, for example, that microUSB has a current draw limit ? Lighting provides a safe way to achieve a higher current draw and hence faster charging. Doesn't matter so much for the iPhone, but the iPad is a bit more power hungry.

And as you said, you can buy third party cables which work perfectly fine.

Ancient Mariner
24th Sep 2013, 14:50
I care not for the Apple vs MS war, but just to let you know. I once bought a very nice, and expensive flatbed scanner from Canon, worked like a charm it did. Then I upgraded to a new MS operating system. No compatible driver from Canon, no fix from MS, no help on the net. Who should I blame?
I bought a new scanner.
Per

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 15:13
RGB wrote:
VP:

The problem with your card reader is obviously driver related. Not trying to be condescending but, in case you don't already know, a driver is a piece of software which interfaces with the hardware it's responsible for.

Now, I don't know what model of iPad your wife has but what kind of connector does it have? (Lightning? USB-ish?)

The reason why I ask is because over in the Apple Support Forum there is a plethora of users complaining about their card readers not working after updating to iOS 7. So you and your wife are not alone. (As if that's any consolation!)

You may well have to buy a new adapter. But, if your wife really doesn't like iOS 7 that much why not downgrade it back to iOS 6?

Thanks for teh head-up about others having the same problem. The iPad is a new one, bought purchased in July this year, not sure of the model, but it's the one with the nicer display. The connector is a very tiny thing, smaller than USB and very thin. The camera card adapter was bought a few days after the iPad, so is also only a couple of months old.

I may well explore going back to the old software, once I've genned up on all the possible pitfalls! It's a steep learning curve trying to find out how this thing works.


AM wrote:
I care not for the Apple vs MS war, but just to let you know. I once bought a very nice, and expensive flatbed scanner from Canon, worked like a charm it did. Then I upgraded to a new MS operating system. No compatible driver from Canon, no fix from MS, no help on the net. Who should I blame?
I bought a new scanner.
Per

Sounds very like my experience with my Canon scanner, although in that case the scanner was several years old before it stopped working when I bought a new PC. In the case of this camera adapter both the iPad and the adapter are only around 2 months old, and I can't accept that something can only be designed to last two months before needing to be replaced.

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 15:15
Ancient:

Who should you blame for your scanner woes? Canon. Why?
They, and only they, are responsible for releasing updated drivers. Before a new OS release is out, regardless of whose OS it is, developers are notified well in advance of any changes being made to the OS which might affect their product. This includes driver interface changes. If the developers are unable, or unwilling, to perform due diligence then you, the consumer, are stuck with the results.

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 15:24
VP:

If your wife's iPad was bought back in July of this year, and it has a "nicer display" as well as a small-ish connector then my guess is it's an iPad 4 with Retina display and Lightning to USB cable.

I would strongly suggest, VP, that you and/or your wife peruse the Apple support forums for problem-solving, research, suggestions, tutorials, etc. Most users posting on Apple's support forums are generally very good in helping others out. Like I said, I've seen a plethora of users complaining about problems with their card readers and the new iOS 7.

Here's the URL to the support forums over at Apple:

https://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 15:40
Thanks RGB, I shall sit and have a good read of all that info this evening.

Stewie1982
24th Sep 2013, 15:52
I dunno, I'm starting to get used to iOS 7 on my iPhone 5 but my iPad 4 is firmly staying on its present iOS.....
iOS 7 is a lot to get used though - why for instance change the way you close down apps?

Airborne Aircrew
24th Sep 2013, 16:31
why for instance change the way you close down apps?

For the same reason M$ took away the Start button in Win8... :ugh:

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 16:50
Ahhh, but Airborne, in front of me sits my Windows 8.1 laptop. (Company mandated. If it were up to me, which it is not, I'd have Linux running on that as well.)

The 'Start' menu is alive and in living color in Win 8.1. As is easy access to the ubiquitous windows desktop.

VP959
24th Sep 2013, 16:57
For the same reason M$ took away the Start button in Win8...

I have a feeling that there is a potential problem with the business model for operating systems, one which the big companies try to address by forcing change when change isn't actually needed by their major (corporate) customers.

A friend and former colleague is an IT guru, who looks after a corporate system with around 3000 or so users. They are still running Windows XP and he is strongly resisting the move to a newer version of Windows just because XP does everything the organisation needs and his staff know and understand all the quirks, so it's very reliable.

According to my friend, the cost of switching his big corporate system to a newer version of Windows is astronomical, not primarily because of the cost of the software, but because of the big dip in productivity and the high training overhead he'll incur. He's seriously considering moving the whole organisation on to Linux, not because of the lower cost of the switch (apparently it would cost about the same as upgrading Windows, because of the training and lost productivity issue) but because by persuading the powers that be to do this switch the organisation would be free from being controlled by Microsoft, making it easier to plan future changes as they need them, rather than as Microsoft dictate.

I'm far from being knowledgeable about this stuff, but have always been convinced by the "never fly the Mk 1 of anything" principle, so am reluctant to ever get the first version of any updated software!

rgbrock1
24th Sep 2013, 19:23
VP:

You bring up some very valid points. However, do keep in mind that in the corporate world, in general, the rate of adoption of the newest OS release is much slower than it is in the consumer world. For example: here in the hospital I currently work for the upgrade to Win 7 on the desktops just happened last year. Until then it was Win XP. Many of the Windows servers here are still running Win Server 2003 as well. And I know of several corporate organizations who have no intention of upgrading their desktops to Win 7 anytime in the near future.

The reasoning is just as you wrote: cost. Cost in deployment, cost in training, cost in lost man-hours, cost in upgrading hosted applications, etc.

I, on the other hand, do not have that problem as I run Linux on all my desktops although I do have to run Win 8.1 on my laptop. But that's mainly because my desktop is used merely as a conduit to connect to the mainframes I'm technically responsible for. So the platform which facilitates that connectivity is a moot point. For me anyway.

FlyingOfficerKite
24th Sep 2013, 20:11
The OS adds more functionality than my recent upgrade from iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 - which I appreciate.

Don't like the presentation as much - tends to degrade the Apple towards Windows. However I'll probably get used to it.

Airborne Aircrew
24th Sep 2013, 21:05
OK... I just had to configure one of my user's iPhones who has already done the upgrade and loves it.

Aside from new found incompatibilities the thing doesn't seem too bad. The icons are a little larger and "less refined" and some things like the on/off slider are a bit "childish"...

My user showed me all her new favorite "features" which are nothing but silly little eye candy for, as I said to her, the shallow and vapid amongst us, (which she didn't deny), and needless to say I wasn't overly impressed.

Having said that, I don't think it is something to avoid altogether and will probably "upgrade" shortly. The only deal breaker for me is one single App that runs/monitors the security system for my house. If there's a single problem there then it's a "no go"...

redsnail
24th Sep 2013, 21:49
Upgraded my iPhone 5 and iPad mini without a hitch today. The graphics are a bit twee but it's worked ok - so far. :)

sisemen
24th Sep 2013, 22:28
Just downloaded the system to my iPhone - icon tiles seem to be a huge unsophisticated step backwards!

Airborne Aircrew
24th Sep 2013, 22:35
I did it... My security system works just fine so I'll be happyish...

I just found the problem though... I'm an old fart with shitty eyesight... The nice, (with glasses on), fonts are bloody useless if you don't know what you want to press where on the screen to do certain things... The problem is that they changed some of the places you normally press to do those things... Now I have to have my glasses on more...

I hate upgrades... :{

Worrals in the wilds
25th Sep 2013, 00:46
I haven't had a problem and quite like the look of IOS7. A previous IOS upgrade ate my contacts list :suspect:, so this one's been plain sailing by comparison.

Windows 8 is another story; I've never actually hated software until I bought a laptop that came with Win8 pre-installed :mad:. It's an awkward, counter-intuitive POS operating system that seems to have been designed by a manevolent sadist who hates customers.
Seriously, I'd rather have DOS back.

Airborne Aircrew
25th Sep 2013, 01:56
Worrals:

Windows 8 is another story; I've never actually hated software until I bought a laptop that came with Win8 pre-installed http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif. It's an awkward, counter-intuitive POS operating system that seems to have been designed by a manevolent sadist who hates customers.
Seriously, I'd rather have DOS back. But what didn't you like about it... :E

Seriously, one of my senior employees installed it on her workstation for two months and removed it after telling me "I will not support computers that are loaded with that"... I like her, she tells it as it is... :ok:

fujii
25th Sep 2013, 04:53
I am with AA. There is a bit of change for change's sake. E.g. Brightness and Wallpaper has been changed to Wallpapers and Brightness. What I dislike are the changes in Safari. What were solid, easy to identify navigation tools have been changed to thin light blue tools on a white field. Not good for old eyes and brightly lit areas. The caps button used to change between white and dark blue, now it's grey or grey.

sisemen
25th Sep 2013, 07:29
One problem that I've found is switching functions off. Under the old system having used a function and gone back to the home screen a double tap on the button brought up the systems still running which with a tap could then be shut down. Seems that can't be done now


Edit: Sussed it. Delete by swiping the icon to the top of the page until it disappears.

Worrals in the wilds
25th Sep 2013, 09:08
I think one of the problems for non-geeky people who are used to Windows is that Windows updates don't change the functionality or settings. If you have a PC you get used to updates burbling along in the background, and the worst thing they do is ask for a restart.

An IOS update is a different beast, but initially seems to be as harmless. People happily click along (they shouldn't but they do) and before they know it the whole thing's completely different.

VP959
25th Sep 2013, 10:43
I think one of the problems for non-geeky people who are used to Windows is that Windows updates don't change the functionality or settings. If you have a PC you get used to updates burbling along in the background, and the worst thing they do is ask for a restart.

An IOS update is a different beast, but initially seems to be as harmless. People happily click along (they shouldn't but they do) and before they know it the whole thing's completely different.

A perfect summary of the consternation this has caused within our household!

Neither of us have so much as looked at any Apple products until getting the iPad a couple of months ago, we've had Windows machines in the house for around 20 years or so now.

Richo77
26th Sep 2013, 00:29
VP,

That then begs the question why didn't you buy a windows tablet? Just curious.

svhar
26th Sep 2013, 01:02
His wife wanted an iPad. Logic has nothing to do with it. What can a man do when a woman wants something?

Greek God
26th Sep 2013, 01:13
I use notes quite a lot (or used to)
I'd like to know which fruit eating huggy fluffy californian hippy rocket scientist decided that yellow text on a white background was a good idea?(when inserting addresses, tel numbers or hyperlinks) :ugh: my eyes cannot cope well with that!

I also find it difficult to tell when its charging now - the big battery icon disappears after a few seconds now to leave a small lightning symbol next to the battery icon.

Love it yes!
Hate it yes!

Ps dont forget when apple brought out the Iphone 4 they changed the charging circuit resulting in any docks, car kits etc becoming redundant if charging was required. With no pre warning!:\

VFD
26th Sep 2013, 02:10
I'd like to know which fruit eating huggy fluffy californian hippy rocket scientist decided that yellow text on a white background was a good idea?(when inserting addresses, tel numbers or hyperlinks) :ugh: my eyes cannot cope well with that!

The calendar as well as other applications. I would guess it takes less battery would be the reason, I agree that it is tough to see with any ambient light.

I downloaded this morning anticipating a slow day to have time to adjust to the new software.
The days circumstances got out of control and I was left with frustrating day adjusting to the new system while already trying to do two or three things at once.
The best I can tell the Icons have the appearance of being designed by Fisher-Price the makers of children toys or someone having a fun time with paint brush.

VFD

Airborne Aircrew
26th Sep 2013, 02:26
The best I can tell the Icons have the appearance of being designed by Fisher-Price the makers of children toys or someone having a fun time with paint brush.

And there was me thinking I did a bang up job... :{

broadreach
26th Sep 2013, 02:31
Just downloaded it - with some trepidation. Seems to work although the "Fisher - Price" comment earlier on re icons is spot on. Otherwise, don't see much difference - yet.

Nervous SLF
26th Sep 2013, 02:31
Will those at Apple who mucked around with it, a) hear of the discontent ?, b) give a stuff anyway ?

LapSap
26th Sep 2013, 04:16
I can't help thinking of this guy when I read your replies.

BBC Office UK I.T GUY Simon | BRUCE LEE | GO KARTING - YouTube

superq7
26th Sep 2013, 15:43
STOP PRESS
Apple is automatically sending out iOS 7 to devices without users permission.

Got this from app advice not sure if it's true

mixture
26th Sep 2013, 18:36
Got this from app advice not sure if it's true

Absolute bull. Do some homework before you regurgitate someone else's nonsense.

ExXB
27th Sep 2013, 08:19
I believe there is a setting that allows updating of the OS automatically. Default setting is off, so anyone experiencing same has only self, or 12 year old son, to blame.

mixture
27th Sep 2013, 08:48
I believe there is a setting that allows updating of the OS automatically. Default setting is off, so anyone experiencing same has only self, or 12 year old son, to blame.

Nope.... at least nope in relation to settings. Correct in relation to "anyone experiencing same has only self, or 12 year old son, to blame".

To quote something from the internet.....(CNET)

Specifically, users who still have iOS 6 installed are experiencing self-starting over-the-air (OTA) downloads for iOS 7 to their devices when connected to AC power, averaging around 1 GB per download and occupying 3.1 GB of storage. While the update does not automatically install itself and requires user authentication, the download does not show up in the storage submenu within settings.


So it DOWNLOADS automatically, but it DOES NOT install with specific action and authentication by the user.

An iOS upgrade is a major thing and requires a reboot of the phone. Its simply not feasible to even imagine it being done automatically without your permission.

Ken Borough
27th Sep 2013, 09:36
Updated my iPad Mini via iTunes on my PC. For a technological refugee, the process was as easy as! No problems so far. A few minutes ago the iPad prompted me to instal an update. I had to initiate the process. Again, easy peasy.

Why are there so many complaints and issues?

VP959
27th Sep 2013, 10:33
Why are there so many complaints and issues?

Because as stated in this excellent summary posted earlier:

I think one of the problems for non-geeky people who are used to Windows is that Windows updates don't change the functionality or settings. If you have a PC you get used to updates burbling along in the background, and the worst thing they do is ask for a restart.

An IOS update is a different beast, but initially seems to be as harmless. People happily click along (they shouldn't but they do) and before they know it the whole thing's completely different.

Many people who are new to Apple products but familiar with the constant (at least once a week it seems) stream of updates for Windows and may not have realised quite how much change to the look and feel of the iPad was going to result from accepting this update.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and some of the less tolerant people here have pointed out that my other half was an idiot, in effect, for not realising exactly what accepting this update was going to do. Perhaps they are right, perhaps anyone who isn't wholly familiar with exactly how any of their electronic gadgets works shouldn't be allowed to own them.

The bottom line here is that many of the changes that have been introduced seem aimed at youngsters who may appreciate the garish colours, the need to spend hours searching the web for instructions on how to learn the different functionality, and who accept that they need to now buy new accessories to do things they could do easily before the update.

Unfortunately, as one ages one finds it much harder to adapt to change and to learn about new technology. I wish it weren't so, but unfortunately it is. In this case a device that was previously thought to be truly excellent and used every day now lies unused.

Worrals in the wilds
27th Sep 2013, 11:12
In this case a device that was previously thought to be truly excellent and used every day now lies unused. Do encourage her to have a crack at it. :) If nothing else, there's no point in letting the buggers win without putting up a fight...:}

IOS7 is quite different in looks and behaviour, but it still does the same stuff. If she liked what the device did before IMO it's worth persevering a bit, because the outcomes are the same. She can still look at piccies, access the internet, get messages and all the things she liked doing before the changes.

Apple like people to form an emotional attachment to their products. It's what's made their brand successful and I've no doubt that they employ a swag of psychologists to ensure the connection continues. However, the risk is that when the product changes, it's a bit like it grew a beard, got fat and stopped partying. I'm sure we've all heard the words You've CHANGED...:}:} and they're never followed by a fun conversation. :uhoh: Most people like things they like to stay the same.

As with humans, when software's changed there are two options; punt it off or stick with it. Given you paid good money for the device I'd recommend the second; again as with humans, the changes to the IOS tend to be more cosmetic than fundamental. If she initially liked the product then IMO it's worth dealing with the figurative beard and weight gain, because it's still pretty much the same animal.

Nor is it about being an idiot. We all have skills and talents and no doubt Mrs VP959 is an expert at lots of stuff that many computer gurus struggle with, so it all evens out in the end. It wasn't so long ago that computers were all green or white light on a black background, so let's not give them too much credit...:}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkxHj5OVfu4

Nervous SLF
27th Sep 2013, 11:50
Apple's iOS 7 brought several new and much needed features (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ios-review-apples-big-change-means-worthwhile-upgrade/story?id=20290551) to the company's iPhone and iPad. But something that didn't get a lot of attention was its transition animations between the homescreen and the individual apps.
It turns out the animations might be a bigger issue than intended, since some Apple fans are claiming it literally makes them sick.
Michelle Barna, 31, is hesitant to update to the newest version of iOS because of those animations. "I played around with iOS 7 on my girlfriend's phone and I felt nauseous," she told ABC News. "I'm a huge Apple fan and I haven't made the update yet because of it."
It's not just Barna who feels a little queasy. A message thread on Apple's forums (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5322295?start=0&tstart=0) has become a venting ground for queasy and frustrated users. One user says "It hurts my eyes and makes me dizzy. So annoying that we can't downgrade!!!!" Another writes, "I had severe vertigo the minute I started using my ipad with ios 7. Lost the rest of the day to it... And not happy at all. It's the transition between the apps flying in and out." The thread was first spotted by The Verge. (http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4770818/ios-7-zooming-animations-causing-reports-of-severe-motion-sickness)
People have also flocked to Twitter (https://twitter.com/search?q=ios7%20motion%20sick&src=typd) saying that the new iOS makes them motion sick.



Apple iOS 7 Literally Making Some Users Sick - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/apple-ios-literally-making-users-sick/story?id=20385379)
.

'Chuffer' Dandridge
28th Sep 2013, 18:43
Changed over to ios7 the other day, cant say it bothered me either way. Colours might be a bit bright, and the diary a bit small for ageing eyes.

The phone still works....

Which is more than can be said for the rubbish HTC phone I have for work. Rarely gets a signal at home, even though it's the same network my personal iPhone works 100% of the time on.. Bizarre.

It's Not Working
28th Sep 2013, 19:32
Changed over a few days ago and nothing is upsetting me too much but... I'd like to Trash the Trash, whatever happened to Delete?

mixture
28th Sep 2013, 20:16
Appparently, upgrading to iOS7 is a one-way trip

Yawn. :ugh:

We covered this days ago.

Yes, its true, its one way.

No, nobody is forcing you to upgrade.

No, its not Apple being evil preventing downgrades. iOS 7 is both an OS and chipset firmware upgrade. Doing a parallel downgrade of firmware and OS is a risky endeavour. There are unofficial ideas out there on the internet about how you can do it, but they are just that, unofficial and unrecommended.

End.

ShyTorque
28th Sep 2013, 20:36
This compatibility issue is terrible.

I bought an Ipad thingy but had to send it back, total rubbish. The hole at the base was too small to get the floppy disks in. So I couldn't install the latest version of DOS. Paid a fortune for it, too - it's the latest version, 6.22 I think.

Airborne Aircrew
28th Sep 2013, 20:39
Shy:

Paid a fortune for it, too

More money than sense? :E

VP959
28th Sep 2013, 21:13
Quote:
Appparently, upgrading to iOS7 is a one-way trip
Yawn.

We covered this days ago.

Yes, its true, its one way.

No, nobody is forcing you to upgrade.

No, its not Apple being evil preventing downgrades. iOS 7 is both an OS and chipset firmware upgrade. Doing a parallel downgrade of firmware and OS is a risky endeavour. There are unofficial ideas out there on the internet about how you can do it, but they are just that, unofficial and unrecommended.

End.


What you say (in a rather rude and obnoxious way) seems technically and precisely correct. However, some people who have bought these gadgets on the basis of the functionality they admired have had that functionality arbitrarily changed, without being warned in enough detail as to what this upgrade involved.

Your view has convinced me to never, ever, consider buying another Apple product, as it typifies the sort of intolerant disregard for the inconvenience caused to some customers that Apple seem to think is an acceptable way to conduct their business.

Sure I'm annoyed. This has caused a fair bit of disharmony in our household for the past week or so, and nothing I can say or do seems to be able to change that. You may well consider this wholly insignificant and insult to your god Apple, but some people are, quite understandably, pissed off about not being able to get back the functionality that they paid for when they bought these gadgets.

Airborne Aircrew
28th Sep 2013, 21:29
VP959:

You have to understand Mixture... Or not.

He is the most rude, intolerant, obnoxious and often simply stupid person on PPRuNe, which says a lot. His curt manner is indicative of the typical "keyboard warrior" of the internet. A small man, or maybe woman, who gets off abusing people he wouldn't say "boo" to in real life. I think he believes he's the Bastard Operator from Hell when, in reality, he's not that amusing...

Ignore the silly little boy, or girl, with luck his offensive nature will get him banned soon.

ShyTorque
28th Sep 2013, 22:08
More money than sense?

It seemed ok at the time I bought it. In 1994 I think, according to the label!

How simple things were then, when if all else failed, all you had to worry about was getting back to the C: prompt.

RAC/OPS
28th Sep 2013, 22:29
I don't have too many issues with it so far. I agree that the visuals are a bit sparse compared with the previous, but my battery does seem to last longer.

My main gripe is that in the old version the calendar showed the month with the day highlighted and the day's appointments (usually my shifts) in bullet form at the bottom. Now you have to select the day and the shift appears as a block on the day page.

Airborne Aircrew
28th Sep 2013, 23:51
Shy:

How simple things were then, when if all else failed, all you had to worry about was getting back to the C: prompt.

Amen... But, then again, it was super-complicated back then too... ;)

superq7
29th Sep 2013, 00:25
Airborn

I agree with you 100% Mixture seems to enjoy hurting people's feelings, well he did mine anyway, I put up what I thought was a quite correct post about ios7 ok I'm no expert but to be spoken too like that to me was beyond the pale.

Seldomfitforpurpose
29th Sep 2013, 00:42
Airborn

I agree with you 100% Mixture seems to enjoy hurting people's feelings, well he did mine anyway, I put up what I thought was a quite correct post about ios7 ok I'm no expert but to be spoken too like that to me was beyond the pale.

Anyone whose feelings, bless, get hurt by the Cyber interaction that is the Internet really ought to reconsider their subscriptions :ok:

superq7
29th Sep 2013, 00:48
Seldom

I didn't know I had to pay a subscription :confused: am not in the least hurt just trying to make a point :ok:

Seldomfitforpurpose
29th Sep 2013, 01:07
Seldom

I didn't know I had to pay a subscription :confused: am not in the least hurt just trying to make a point :ok:

So why post

I agree with you 100% Mixture seems to enjoy hurting people's feelings, well he did mine anyway, I put up what I thought was a quite correct post about ios7 ok I'm no expert but to be spoken too like that to me was beyond the pale.

If yours sensibilities are not...........yada yada yada :ok:

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 02:42
SFFP:

Many people here have been banned or given "time outs" for a lot less than Mixture gets away with constantly. It's not so much that he might hurt people's feelings but rather that he breaks the rules in almost every post he makes regardless of the ssubject yet seems to be granted a carte blanche at all times. Since the Mods never seem to give a toss I think it's time that people start standing up to the pencil necked geek who is, no doubt, nothing more than an internet bully... As scarey as that could possibly be... :rolleyes:

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 09:56
Airborne Aircrew,

Its quite simple.

I'm not an "internet bully", I don't set out to "hurt people's feelings", nor am I any of those other things various posters have opted to call me.

I just get straight to the point of expressing the technically correct answer to an issue without beating about the bush. Some people here prefer the more "politically correct" form of posting where people post very long verbose answers that either don't give an answer either way or end up giving the incorrect answer whilst taking the original poster round the houses - and on this thread there are also a whole bunch of signed up Apple bashers who need to be kept in control, by putting some balance into their one-way arguments !

In relation to my recent post to the person who talked about the one-way upgrade, this was already covered on page one or two of this thread. Is it too much to ask people to have a quick gander through the thread before they post the same stuff again and turn the thread into one big hamsterwheel ?

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 12:04
He's just another delusional starstruck Jobsian fan worshiping his dead hero.

If that's referring to me, that's a wholly inaccurate statement. I am not a "Jobsian fan", nor do I "worship" him.

I have no time for people who go round calling me or others a fanboy/worshipper/etc. Its wholly evident they don't know what they are talking about and have no better argument to come up with other than name-calling the other party.

Come back with a balanced, reasoned, technical argument that will stand up to scrutiny in relation to your Apple bashing and I will by all means give you the benefit of an audience and listen to your point of view. All you are doing at the moment is the equivalent of a kid sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting "na na na" in between sticking his/her tongue out.

To the rest of us its just overpriced bling.

I'm sorry, are you talking about Apple or the IT marketplace in general ? :E

I could name you a whole litany of non-Apple products that would fit the words "overpriced bling" because they are poorly implemented products that I wouldn't even touch with a bargepole.

For example, before I ended up buying an iPhone, I owned a Nokia, a Blackberry and even an HTC windows jobbie (think I also tried someone else's Android at some point too).... the iPhone beats them all hands down in terms of practical usability, its a great product. Most of the others mentioned would certainly fall into your "overpriced bling" statement, the Blackberry was especially ghastly and I would never use a Blackberry again even if you gave me one for free !

The only people who call Apple products "overpriced bling" are the people who don't know what they are talking about and jump on the Apple bashing bandwagon because its the fashionable thing to do.

Fact of the matter is that Apple go to great lengths to make solid, dependable products that will continue giving their owners good service far longer than the overpriced tat many of the other manufacturers sell.

I never said Apple were perfect, just like I'll tell you no other manufacturer is perfect. But in the grand scheme of things in the IT industry, Apple do a far better job of coming up with high quality, reliable products than many of their counterparts will ever manage to do.

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 12:59
Mixture:

Its quite simpleNo it's not. You don't "simply get straight to the point"... I am far from PC and will quite happily call a spade a spade but your scribblings here do not fall short of abuse. I can guarantee you would not speak in the manner you do face to face like you "type at" people here because at some point you know you'd end up with a fat lip. The fact that you do so from the safety of your monitor puts you firmly in the internet bully class I'm afraid. You can bleat and whine all you like about the characterization but the cap fits so either tone down your abrasiveness or live with it. Just so you know, about 90% of the people reading this are nodding and the other 10% simply don't care enough to get that worked up about you.

Why do I care? Because I'm fed up of listening to it, I don't like bullies and have a rather nasty habit of confronting them often with embarrassing consequences for them - sorry, it's the way I was brought up, (actually, I'm not sorry... It's called "being polite"). You're a smart man as witnessed when you actually get into debate rather than just haranguing the locals but any points you garner there are wiped away tenfold each of the many times you climb up on that high horse. Leave the poor, overworked beast in the pasture. The horse will thank you for it as will your victims...

Just saying...

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 13:25
ludgar,

And the "balanced, reasoned, technical argument that will stand up to scrutiny" I invited you to put forward is where exactly ?

All you are doing is expressing an opinion, both in relation to me and Apple's products.

Your opinion in relation to me is incorrect. That's an absolute fact, I'm not an Apple Fanboy, Jobsian worshipper or whatever else you care to call me.

I have used both Apple and non-Apple products in quite some detail, and therefore at the present time your opinion in relation to Apple's products will also be classed as incorrect until such time as you care to properly substantiate them. At which point, as I said, I will be more than happy to review and consider your opinion.

I never said I disagreed with the factual element of your statement about the Apple iOS upgrade being one way. It obviously is a one way upgrade. What I wanted to point out is that this was already stated on page 1/2 of this very thread.... and I simply wanted to re-state that the fact it was a one-way upgrade was not some evil planning on the part of Apple !

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 13:41
Cheap circuit boards inside bling cases put together by near-slaves in Foxconn's sweated-labour plants.

Would that be the same Foxconn who also carry out work for many other brand names ? That fact seems to be a bit too embarrassing for most Apple bashers to comprehend.... they instead like to push Foxconn as being Apple's personal manufacturing plant. You're suffering from a case of pot calling kettle black here.

I wouldn't class the boards as particularly cheap either.

A triumph of market brainwashing over rationality and technical ability

Nonsense. The same statement could be said of any number of manufacturers in the IT industry.

As I said, Apple is not perfect. But their products are better than many from a technical point of view.

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 13:51
and as a rule their products are cheaply made shite, the motherboards especially prone to failure


If that's in relation to Apple, you've obviously had little experience. I've owned and know people who've owned a number of Apple products over the years. Reliability is high, and motherboard failure has never come up as an issue. Hard drive failure is the most common one I've seen, but that's not limited to Apple products (and the hard drives are not made by Apple anyway).

however it seems to be the case that the work conditions in the plants carrying out assembly work for Apple would appear to be especially onerous

That's what you want to think, and what you want others to think.

But suspect you know deep inside that you won't find roses growing on the manufacturing lines for the other brand names.

For example, shall we take - at random from any number of examples - the following news item title from Bloomberg ... "Samsung Sued by Brazil Prosecutor for Factory Working Conditions".

Pot calling kettle black ludgar. Apple bashing is fashionable ludgar, and you seem to be a keen follower of fashion.

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 14:19
press reports and exposes over such matters repeatedly cite plants carrying out assembly work for Apple, not for other sales companies.

Not sure you can trust journalists or such like to publish balanced articles. They probably pick on Apple because its a well established brand name and most people in the world will have seen an Apple iPhone at some point, so they can associate with the device the journo is talking about.

Given that the manufacturing facilities Apple use in China are not exclusive to Apple, but are also heavily used by other major manufacturers, it is unfair to pick specifically on apple.

Place that alongside the child labour transgressions, the forced unpaid overtime, the crowded living conditions and the overall image is bleak.

Again, applies to other major manufacturers as much as Apple.

The Chinese government is also as much to blame as Foxconn (or other manufacturing plants). The Chinese people do not benefit from the same employment and environmental laws that that the majority of people in "the west" do.

It is difficult to say the manufacturing plants need to improve working conditions when the cultural and legislative framework does not exist in the country in which they operate.

Yes, things absolutely need to change in China. But simply bashing away at Apple is not really the most constructive way to do it. Other parties have a role to play too (the manufacturing plant operators, but more importantly the government and their ability to legislate).

It might also have escaped your attention that Apple are going to start manufacturing some of their products in the US again.

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 14:28
ludgar,

If you spent a couple of seconds on google, you would soon see your accusation of murder was incorrect. The employee conducted suicide, and an investigation was launched after the event (I can see it now, you're going to turn that last phrase into a conspiracy theory once you've donned your tin foil hat !).

You are also continuing to bash away at Apple when you could replace the word Apple with the name of any other manufacturer using manufacturing facilities in China.

As mentioned above. Yes, things absolutely need to change in China. But bashing away at a brand name of your choice is not particularly constructive.

It is also not necessarily a question as to whether something is illegal under Chinese law, but whether they actually enforce the law.

Building unstable/unsafe buildings is probably illegal in India, but that doesn't stop people building clothing factories as they please.

TWT
29th Sep 2013, 14:36
Or Bangladesh

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 14:47
Glad to see you accepted my invitation to don the tin foil hat ludgar.

You seem to enjoy cherry picking and ignoring the reality of the situation in China. Its all a bit more complicated and won't be solved simply by you and others bashing away at Apple as if that will magically solve all the underlying problems.

If you want to play the ethical card moral high ground, then I suggest you first throw away all the electronic gadgets you own that have a "made in china" label. You might also want to look closely at your wardrobe for clothing made in questionable conditions.

Seldomfitforpurpose
29th Sep 2013, 15:02
Certainly looks like Apple bashing, plenty of other stuff gets made in Chinese sweat shops so not sure why it's just Apple that's the bad guys and need bashing :confused:

superq7
29th Sep 2013, 16:32
Seldom
I think I had a glass of wine last night, :ugh:

Anyway am thinking of getting an I pad mini to go with my I pad to use on hols etc or tomorrow Tesco are bringing out a 7 inch tablet, I don't know which one to go for any ideas ?

bucket_and_spade
29th Sep 2013, 16:37
Wow.

Clicked on this to get a few takes on the new iOS but it doesn't seem to have been mentioned (on this page at least).

Wonder how many of you are pilots? It's a worry if the above snipers are...

Have fun kids! I'm off to the adult section...although that's hard to find on Proon these days. Might have to curb the visits!

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 17:08
Might have to curb the visits!

You'll be sadly missed... Mind the door on your way out...:rolleyes:

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 17:15
or tomorrow Tesco are bringing out a 7 inch tablet, I don't know which one to go for any ideas ?

Not entirely sure why you even consider Tesco would be a viable option ?

Their business model is based upon low price points, so I wouldn't expect a Tesco iPad to be much different. If they want to flog it as cheaply as possible, they'll have to build it as cheaply as possible and support it as cheaply as possible.

What track record do they have in own-brand gadgets ? I think its their first venture in that area, no ?

To be honest, I think they probably know they've missed departure of the tablet bandwagon, and I suspect their main key differentiator is going to end up being the price point they sell it at. Basically targeting the low hanging fruit who make their buying decisions based on the price tag.

Looking forward to being proven wrong on the Tesco front, but I suspect I'm not far off the reality, can't see how they can have much up their sleeve.

superq7
29th Sep 2013, 17:24
Thanks for that, I think then I will wait for the retina display I pad mini to come out, I saw some people while on holiday recently using them as cameras videos, seems a nice bit of kit :ok:

ShyTorque
29th Sep 2013, 17:27
or tomorrow Tesco are bringing out a 7 inch tablet,

Anyone would find that very hard to swallow.

Why do "Apple bashers" need to be controlled?

VP959
29th Sep 2013, 17:32
Having spent some time looking around at tablets over the past day or two I'm inclined to the view that in general you get what you pay for. The exception seems to be the Kindle Fire, which is a very nice piece of kit indeed for the price, but not really comparable to an iPad in terms of breadth of functionality.

I was impressed with the Nexus 10, and even more impressed with the Sony Xperia Z, either would seem to be a worthy competitor to the iPad. Both offer the opportunity to be in a fair bit of control of the way the tablet functions, looks and gets updated, which is a significant advantage in my view.

I'd personally be wary of the Tesco offering until it's been thoroughly reviewed, as if it's like the majority of the budget tablets running Android it may well be disappointing in terms of quality and usability (based only on my inexpert conclusions from a brief look around).

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 17:39
Why do "Apple bashers" need to be controlled?

Controlled in the sense of injecting balance.

I suspect the majority of Apple bashers have never had any real life experience in the IT industry and as a result don't know what they're talking about, have no idea how to properly objectively evaluate a piece of kit when put in front of them.

In essence they're just following the fashion of bashing Apple and when pushed are unable to back up their bashing with arguments of any substance.

Apple are not perfect, no manufacturer is. But its far more fashionable these days to bash Apple than Microsoft, Samsung or any other brand.

Its just like the old Boeing vs Airbus debate. Lots of stick & rudder traditionalists out there happy to bash away at Airbus. Sure its not a perfect platform, but its not the evil monster that some make it out to be.

G-CPTN
29th Sep 2013, 17:41
AFAIK the Tesco tablet doesn't have cellphone connectivity.

WiFi only.

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 17:52
ludgar,

You certainly haven't shown any with your incessant Apple bashing.

Anyone who has spent any time in the industry will, for example, know the reality of manufacturing in China and that those people who pick on Apple for it really don't know what they are talking about.

Just face the facts ludgar, its trendy and fashionable to bash Apple, you and many others seem to love following that trend despite myself and others telling you we are not Apple fanboys.

Look at this blog post from David Pogue (David Pogue, New York Times technology columnist, CBS news correspondent (http://www.davidpogue.com/bio_photos/fanboy.html)) .... having to explain to the Apple bashers why they are wrong to call him a fanboy.

ShyTorque
29th Sep 2013, 17:53
Controlled in the sense of injecting balance.

I suspect the majority of Apple bashers have never had any real life experience in the IT industry and as a result don't know what they're talking about, have no idea how to properly objectively evaluate a piece of kit when put in front of them.

Apple products are consumer products. If the consumer doesn't like them, what does it matter if they have experience in the IT industry or not? Seems to me that many of the so-called "bashers" are expressing an opinion born from personal experience and don't need "controlling".

Injecting balance? Surely you merely mean that you wish to express another opinion on the subject.

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 17:56
ShyTorque,

There's a difference between "expressing an opinion" and the sort of vitriolic criticism we see dished out against Apple.

I have no problem with the former, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do have an issue with the latter, that is Apple bashing.

I also have an issue with people who pick on Apple in the Chinese manufacturing ethical debate. That is 100% Apple bashing. Everyone who is not wearing rose tinted spectacles surely must know the reality of manufacturing in China ! Anyone who says "oh, but Apple....." is just kidding themselves.

ShyTorque
29th Sep 2013, 18:02
I wouldn't disagree with that. If you'd put it more politely like that in the first place, it would have been taken at face value. ;)

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 18:58
As an iPhone owner with another iPhone and an iPad in the house along with numerous Windows servers desktops and laptops/tablets, having started with computers in 1981/2 and been in computer management at a senior level for the last 25 years I think my thoughts could be considered relevant here.

One does wonder why a major thrust of Apples iPhone 5 marketing of late is to sell it on the grounds that it now comes in colour. It really does bolster the "victory of marketing over good sense" argument.

Worrals in the wilds
29th Sep 2013, 19:01
Or that the majority of customers are more interested in superficial stuff than what's inside the case. I think they're just responding to the market.

superq7
29th Sep 2013, 19:17
Lud

I am no expert but surely Apple invented the I phone which morphed into the I pad so from my limited knowledge did they not then invent the Tablet type computer which was then copied by other manufacturers ? Or am I wrong cheers super :ok:

VP959
29th Sep 2013, 19:29
There have been a handful of attempts to introduce the tablet concept over the past ten years or so, so Apple were way behind the curve with the iPad. What Apple did, rather well, was to make a tablet that was seen as desirable, that had a look and feel that was attractive.

The Windows tablets from ten years ago were clunky, and Windows at that time (Windows XP Tablet Edition) wasn't anywhere near as slick and easy to use as iOS. One or two other manufacturers tried to introduce tablet operating systems, but Apple were arguably the first to create a critical mass of users.

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 19:29
Super:

It's difficult to say when exactly, the first "tablet computer" was made. Some will say it was back in the fifties. Most would accept that the 80's would be more accurate. The iPad is actually a newcomer having been introduced in 2010.

G-CPTN
29th Sep 2013, 19:34
Early tablets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer#Early_devices).

ShyTorque
29th Sep 2013, 19:39
Seems to me that "Tablet" computers are just a small laptop without a protective cover.

Apple charge 35 for a cover, something I see as essential. Or almost double that if you prefer a leather one.

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 19:41
I am no expert but surely Apple invented the I phone which morphed into the I pad so from my limited knowledge did they not then invent the Tablet type computer which was then copied by other manufacturers ?

superq... that was only their second (more successful !) attempt...... don't forget the Apple Newton project !

mixture
29th Sep 2013, 19:42
Apple charge 35 for a cover, something I see as essential. Or almost double that if you prefer a leather one.

You missed the disclaimer that you don't have to buy an Apple one. :cool:

Plus, the screens are pretty robust. Don't know about you, but I don't have a screen cover for my iPhone, and I've yet to scratch that.

Stewie1982
29th Sep 2013, 19:43
Apple do charge a bit for their covers, however if you go onto eBay, you can get covers for about a fiver.....:cool:
Besides, Apple doesn't do a cover in my favourite colour - purple :ouch:

ShyTorque
29th Sep 2013, 20:36
You missed the disclaimer that you don't have to buy an Apple one.

Not an Apple one? Good Lord, more than my life's worth :eek:

(I bought her the leather one, it was a birthday gift and she would certainly know the difference).

Btw, she has spent much of this afternoon complaining about iOS7. It's all my fault because I downloaded it for her (after she asked me to). Other than that, being a Windows person, I know very little about the Ipad.

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 20:44
Shy:

I know very little about the Ipad.

All you really need to know is that her entire life depends upon it. If it doesn't work correctly for her your life is worthless. Need I say more... ;)

VP959
29th Sep 2013, 21:17
Btw, she has spent much of this afternoon complaining about iOS7. It's all my fault because I downloaded it for her (after she asked me to). Other than that, being a Windows person, I know very little about the Ipad.

That has a certain resonance, although in my case I wasn't the guilty party when it came to downloading iOS7.

In our case, she's still not using it, and it's now been a week since the "upgrade". I've tried to gently encourage her to use it, but each time I've been met with a fair bit of vitriol (anyone would think this was all my fault).

Airborne Aircrew
29th Sep 2013, 21:27
anyone would think this was all my fault

Of course it's your fault... You're a man... iThings are for people who think with their heart...;)

superq7
19th Oct 2013, 14:30
http://i41.tinypic.com/125l7jb.jpg taken from App Advice today.

Blacksheep
20th Oct 2013, 00:18
I reckon that chap should dig out the box his device came in and read the small print. At the court hearing Apple will simply produce a copy of the Terms & Conditions that he accepted
when he clicked on the 'Agree' button that was part of the activation procedure for his new device. :rolleyes:

Nervous SLF
20th Oct 2013, 07:35
A few days ago Barclays website seemed to insist that users downloaded something from Barclays before installing iOS7.
Makes you wonder a tad.

OFSO
20th Oct 2013, 09:27
My tablet has more than a few apps (and yes, dear, I do use them !) so can't afford to have the memory clogged up with "improvements and upgrades" I neither want nor need. But at least Android asks me if I want to download and install them - sure, every week or so, keeps reminding me, but I don't have to say yes or accept a big wodge* of data cluttering up my memory.

* technical term

superq7
1st Nov 2013, 20:24
Anyone else bought an ipad air today what do you think ? I'm delighted with mine much lighter and smaller than previous models, expensive yes but I suppose you get what you pay for, cheers S7.

Leolouie
18th Nov 2013, 19:19
I am not an apple user, but my wife's ipad was displaying an update flag, so I innocently initiated it. When it was complete, she hasn't spoke to me in 3 days. I see the posts on the icon change, text visibility, etc. She also tells me there was a footer ribbon in Safari that gave her hints to related sites. Is this a feature that was also removed? I did not see any settings that related to this option.