What Do You Think?

[SASless]

Remember the Missouri EMS Helicopter Crash that killed all Aboard when the Pilot failed in carrying out an Autorotative Landing a Mile short of an airport in the daylight and good Weather?

I sit here just shaking my Head and wondering just this could happen!

Texting by helicopter pilot contributed to crash that killed 4, safety board says | OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2013/04/texting_by_helicopter_pilot_co.html)


http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2013/AAR1302.pdf

[Grenville Fortescue]

I think this and other accidents yielding similar findings may prompt a ban on texting, in its current manual form, in single pilot operations.

[SASless]

Was Texting the real problem?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm .....


....Was Texting the real problem? ....

Not in my opinion .... (but then what do I know!!). :ooh:

[Thomas coupling]

Are the investigaters really that desperate that they can't find the real reason for the crash. Texting causing the crash is so far removed from the truth - preposterous:ugh:

[Matari]

Thomas coupling wrote:
Are the investigaters (sic) really that desperate that they can't find the real reason for the crash.
And this is from the report:
The NTSB determines that the probable causes of this accident were the pilot’s failure to confirm that the helicopter had adequate fuel on board to complete the mission before making the first departure, his improper decision to continue the mission and make a second departure after he became aware of a critically low fuel level, and his failure to successfully enter an autorotation when the engine lost power due to fuel exhaustion. Contributing to the accident NTSB were (1) the pilot’s distracted attention due to personal texting during safety-critical ground and flight operations, (2) his degraded performance due to fatigue, (3) the operator’s lack of a policy requiring that an operational control center specialist be notified of abnormal fuel situations, and (4) the lack of practice representative of an actual engine failure at cruise airspeed in the pilot’s autorotation training in the accident make and model helicopter.

[krypton_john]

Quite. The report never said texting was the 'real problem' but rather that it 'contributed' which seems reasonable.

This illustrates the 'lining up the holes' air accident analogy.

[satsuma]

TC

Sometimes silence is the best option. It was a CONTRIBUTORY factor. How difficult can that be to comprehend?

[Alloa Akbar]

Texting is banned when driving a car, so why should it be any different for a pilot?

[SuperF]

So we are capable of checking a map, changing radio stations, playing with GPS/ autopilot/ nav equipment, talking on radios, to control, other aircraft, ground crew, continually checking weather, looking out for other aircraft,.......

But we aren't capable of deciding if it is safe for us to check or make a txt. Sorry, but I have texts and phone calls coming and going all day, while flying or sitting in the office. The skill is in deciding what is important and what isn't.

But isn't that what we do every time we hop in the helicopter?

[satsuma]

SuperF

You've listed the items that you should be concentrating on to get from A to B safely. Any form of visual communication distracts. If your client needs to contact you it can be done through your operations desk VERBALLY so as not to saturate too many of your senses. It does only appear to be a matter of time before an accident is caused by someone texting at that moment or due to an adverse response of an aircraft system.

[SuperF]

Satsuma,

There have already been a number of accidents that have been put down to texting or phone calls at the wrong time, however they have also, like this one, been a part of the problem.

And the communication through the operations desk is all good in theory, however often in the places that I am working, that isn't possible. I often have to climb to an altitude where I can receive messages, and then check them later.

Like I said in my first post, the skill is in deciding what is important and what isn't. As my old instructor said to me, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order.

[satsuma]

And if you can guarantee me that EVERY pilot with a licence has that skill, then I'll concede that texting while flying isn't such a bad thing. How would you feel if your nearest and dearest went on a helicopter ride only to report back after the trip that the pilot seemed to spend more time texting (in this case his girlfriend) than he did flying the aircraft?

[SilsoeSid]

Overheard the other day one rotary say to another rotary, "Go to 123.45".
Interesting to hear how much work some people can get done in a transit from A to B :eek:


So we are capable of checking a map, changing radio stations, playing with GPS/ autopilot/ nav equipment, talking on radios, to control, other aircraft, ground crew, continually checking weather, looking out for other aircraft,.......

But we aren't capable of deciding if it is safe for us to check or make a txt. Sorry, but I have texts and phone calls coming and going all day, while flying or sitting in the office. The skill is in deciding what is important and what isn't.

a. When checking a map, changing radio, using GPS/autopilot/nav kit (I hope a TCAD is in that list), you are being spatially aware

b. Talking on a radio, by virtue of the fact the pressel is on the cyclic, you are hands on and still able to look out

c. By checking weather, as with looking out for other aircraft, you are looking out

All of these things are momentary actions, not requiring sole concentration for more than 2-3 seconds. Compare the time taken to change a radio frequency or confirm position on your map, to the time taken to read and reply to a text.

By texting, your whole attention is inside the ac looking at and operating your device. We humans simply do not have the ability to concentrate on more than one thing at a time.

Apple Toss (http://youtu.be/lHd_L7dg3U4)

[Exo.]

Going on a helicopter ride would imply the pilot would be involved in conversation with the passengers. Probably in the form of a running commentary.

Another distraction from our duties of flying the aircraft, no?

If one had time on top of that to text, then I would agree that there's something odd going on.

That said, I've texted a deteriorating weather condition to my colleague who was readying to lift for a trip, whilst routing back to base with pax on board (we don't have an ops frequency to use and it wouldn't be picked up at that altitude and range combination anyway).

A commercial pilot should really be aware of when it may be appropriate and when it's not - for example in this case, a lot of the texting was done whilst sitting on the ground waiting for the passenger to load.

In my humble opinion, the texting had nearly nothing to do with the crash, as he should have organised a fuel uptake when he did his initial planning, instead of lying about fuel reserves throughout the flight. He may well have been just as distracted by the prospect of a night out with his lady whether he had been texting her or not...

[widow18]

You can fly a helicopter while texting, talking, drinking or any number of other things. You cannot fly or control a helicopter without Rotor RPM. And without fuel it is hard to maintain altitude.

[SilsoeSid]

You can fly a helicopter while texting, talking, drinking or any number of other things. You cannot fly or control a helicopter without Rotor RPM. And without fuel it is hard to maintain altitude.

I know this thread is now concentrating on texting in flight, however the initial texting referred to in the OP incident, was the first slice of the cheese even before the rotors first started to turn.

(1) the pilot’s distracted attention due to personal texting during safety-critical ground and flight operations,

[Grenville Fortescue]

All of these things are momentary actions, not requiring sole concentration for more than 2-3 seconds. Compare the time taken to change a radio frequency or confirm position on your map, to the time taken to read and reply to a text.

By texting, your whole attention is inside the ac looking at and operating your device. We humans simply do not have the ability to concentrate on more than one thing at a time.


Precisely.

Note, SilsoeSid did not say we cannot do more than one thing at a time but that we can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

Texting in flight in very useful for many reasons but, in a single pilot operation and as I said originally, in its current form, does not contribute to flight safety. You don't have to agree but the evidence is mounting against single pilot in-flight texting.

[SuperF]

Satsuma,

I tell most people I know not to go flying in helicopters, as I know most of the pilots....
My nearest and dearest only fly with me!

No one has proven that texting has caused this accident, the guy just didn't have his mind on the job, and texting while flying pax is just rude, I don't do it. You owe them a duty of care, they have put their faith in u. If you want to add additional risks, do it solo, when you only endanger yourself.

I just can't see how a ban could possibly hope to work.

As soon as u place a ban, it creates all sorts of problems, can u txt while sitting in a cockpit rotors in motion? Some smart lawyer will tell u that if u are writing it in your logbook as flight time, then you are flying. So now cell phones off while in the cockpit! North Sea ops, that's probably a good idea.

I still think that lots of things can be done safely while flying. I've seen some guys take longer to read a map than I take to txt, and they have their head down wobbling all over the place!

As an example, why couldn't you have preset texts, which I do, nice short ones, like, on my way, or what ever, you have the phone set up, txt ready, lift off, climb out, once you hit what ever altitude so that u have phone coverage, hit the phone, hit send, done. My phone shows the latest txt on the front screen, so it takes less than 2-3 seconds to see if what has come in is k, short for ok, our standard reply, or if someone has written a novel.

If I'm close to the ground I don't even try it... No different to the phone ringing while hovering with my head out the door, I just let it ring, it goes to answer phone, next time I get a chance the screen will tell me who rang, then I can decide if I land and call them, if I hit call back while flying, or if it can wait till I'm in the office, or never...

And I think the decision not to put more fuel in, or to be to wrapped up in unimportant texting has more to do with it, than just texting.

And I can drink beer, watch rugby and check out the cheerleaders all at the same time, and I'm concentrating on all three, maybe I'm clever! :E

[SilsoeSid]

And I can drink beer, watch rugby and check out the cheerleaders all at the same time, and I'm concentrating on all three, maybe I'm clever!

Mmm, research warns us that; "Overestimating one's own capacity to perform multiple jobs at once could lead to dangerous consequences"

In your case, you will end up spilling beer down your shirt and trousers, commenting to your fellow rugby viewing mates about all the bottoms in the scrum and asking why the cheerleaders high kick hasn't resulted in a conversion!

If that's being clever ... !

[SuperF]

Hmmm, have u been at the rugby with me silsoe? I get better at all three as the night wears on as well...

[SASless]

Why is texting a even being discussed here?

Let's back up and consider a few things......

The Nimrod did not check the fuel.
The Nimrod did not catch on to the low fuel state until he had departed.
The Nimrod called the Ops Center and hid the seriousness of the situation.
The Nimrod took off knowing he had scant fuel to make it to the fuel point.
The Nimrod ran out of fuel, was unable to do a EOL.
The Nimrod KILLED himself and three other People.

You Nimrods are talking about texting!:ugh:

You should be talking about all of the factors that led to four dead.

Wake up and smell the coffee folks.....is this the limit of your abilities to analyze information and decide what is important?

We had an incident a few months back that involved a fatality in downtown London that involved Texting and lots of bad decision making just as this accident pointed out as well.

[satsuma]

The Nimrod was taken out of service a few years ago.

People can talk about what they like. Don't get grumpy just because you get out of bed and see that a thread that you've started hasn't turned out the way you wanted.

[SASless]

Don't you find it a bit odd....that after a guy kills his passengers and destroys an aircraft because he with malice aforethought runs it out of fuel and fails to carry out an EOL....that the focus of discussion is on Texting?

We saw a similar reaction to the 109 fatal crash in London a few months back.

What I see is generation of young folks that let their Thumbs do their thinking for them.

Yes it is early....but with a good cuppa in my hand....life is rosy.

As you well know.....to be called a Nimrod is not flattering....especially if earned.

[SilsoeSid]

Don't you find it a bit odd....that after a guy kills his passengers and destroys an aircraft because he with malice aforethought runs it out of fuel and fails to carry out an EOL....that the focus of discussion is on Texting?

Not really, don't just give us a link to the report, have the decency to read it yourself and you'll realise straight away why there's this focus on texting.

[500guy]

There are many distractions out there. I flew over a moose the the other day and watched it run for a few seconds, was that a distraction? Yep. Potentially fatal? Perhaps in the wrong situation. Fortunately I did not disregard my priorities (like checking for wires) to watch the thing. Texting can be a disctraction as can giving tours, looking something up in an AFD, giving a news cast, a screaming patient, some of the beaches we fly over :ok: and innumerable other things. As a professional pilot you have to know to first take care if the priorities, then if the situation permits. allow yourself to undertake a task such as texting, looking something up in an AFD, giving a tour, giving a newscast, etc.

Frankly, if a saw a guy loose his priorities, chatting with his girlfriend etc. I'd be upset.

But I've sent and recieved such texts as just leaving SMF ETA 1800. In cruse flight with the priorities taken care of there is nothing wrong with it.
If a pilot doesnt have enough maturity to know the difference he ought not to be flying, or driving for that matter.

[SilsoeSid]

Has anyone else actually read the report?

[Grenville Fortescue]

We are talking about texting because while it may not be THE cause of this particular crash it is being cited as a contributory factor and it's a factor which has not been sufficiently addressed within the [helicopter] community.

Everything is relative. If you're flying in a remote location with no control zones and minimal work loads and want to send a three word text (as 500guy suggested) then the text debate most likely seems mute. But change some of those factors and you can quickly arrive at a more convincing argument with regard to the wisdom of texting while flying.

I can see how texts can be convenient but I also see that using existing mobile technology, keying in words manually, and becoming engrossed in texting for up to a minute or more is, in the wrong set of circumstances, a potential risk.

[albatross]

Having read the report i can only think that the pilot had much too much on his mind and should not have been working that day.

It is very difficult, however, to make the call and say: " I have some issues and don't feel I should work today."

A tragic combination of events took place here.

Food for thought for us all.

[SuperF]

I think we all agree, it's just how we are expressing it that is different.

I was focusing on texting as there were two posts, #2 & 9 I think that specifically asked why we should be allowed to txt, and shouldn't it be banned.

But I 100% agree with you Sasless! it is simply not prioritizing that is causing the problem. Short of fuel, simple problem, simple solution, land the damn helicopter!

500 and Grenvill, I agree with you guys as well! obviously I'm not quite young enough! I don't think I've ever spent a minute sending a txt, if it's going to take me that long! I'll ring the guy as there are going to be more questions! more texts.....

[SASless]

If you cannot take care of what can only be considered one of the most basic tasks ever taught a Pilot.....checking the Fuel Quantity....especially after being told to do so.....everything else is just noise.

How was this Nimrod allowed to get to where he was?

What kind of system allows such utter incompetence to exist?

How did the Med Crew not tweak to something being wrong with this guy long before the day of the accident even?

I hope there is a good reason why the Training Crew did not fuel the aircraft at the end of their flight?

Why there was not an SOP in place at the Base to ensure the aircraft was prepared for service 24/7 unless certain defined events had occurred also seems missing.

If a Pilot cannot be trusted to check the fuel quantity.....what does that tell us about the Pilot, Base, Operator, Customer and FAA?

Sorry folks.....there are no excuses or alibi's for what happened.

The Guy was a Killer.....the only thing missing was the Gun, Knife, Axe or Chain Saw.....he used a Helicopter instead.

[SilsoeSid]

How did the Med Crew not tweak to something being wrong with this guy long before the day of the accident even?

I hope there is a good reason why the Training Crew did not fuel the aircraft at the end of their flight?

Why there was not an SOP in place at the Base to ensure the aircraft was prepared for service 24/7 unless certain defined events had occurred also seems missing.

SASless, in answer to your questions, the report says,

"When the mechanic arrived, he encountered the accident pilot, whom he described in a post accident interview as being in a normal mood, chipper, and ready to go. About 0730, the departing flight nurse encountered the accident pilot and described him as his normal, boisterous self. "

"The last NVG training flight in the helicopter was completed about 0300 on August 26, 2011. The Air Methods instructor who was providing the training reported that he did not have the helicopter refueled after the last flight because the EMS pilot on duty needed to determine the amount of fuel required when the helicopter was returned to EMS service."

"Regarding the accident helicopter, the night shift pilot reported that the NVG training had been completed, the helicopter needed to be reconfigured for medical work by the mechanic, and the helicopter was low on fuel and needed to be refueled before it was used....
...The helicopter mechanic arrived about 0700 and began to reconfigure the accident helicopter for EMS work ... "



Of course having read the report that you linked for us, you'd know all this .... wouldn't you :rolleyes:

[Devil 49]

during their investigation. The links in this accident chain go back a very long way.

My opinion is that the texting issue is a simplistic novelty that is an expression, a symptom, of an actual underlying cause- distraction.
My recollection is that the duty pilot being relieved that morning reminded the accident pilot that the accident aircraft did not have usual mission SOP fuel state. But, it was not the assigned aircraft at that point, so the information was not acted on while fresh. Another aircraft was used until ater in the day, when the crew changed aircraft, moving onto the accident aircraft without bringing it up to what I understand is the typical SOP fuel level at the base. Incidentally, that typical SOP fuel load is approximate amount reported on the first leg. At that point, I suspect the pilot was aware that the aircraft had less than half the fuel planned and reported, and "The wishing, and hoping, and dreaming, and praying" started. It's possible that the pilot thought there was fuel at an airport near the transferring facility (15 or so minutes away), but no discussion mentioning that delay or possibility is documented. My recollection is that the pilot had previously been assigned that base, and might have been aware of that possible fuel source... Facilities directories don't clarify that availability.
The patient transfer flight was initiated after a comparatively brief interval, meaning that the relatively new HEMS pilot might have departed before the issues were addressed by anybody. Yes, texting was an indicator of where the pilot's attention was being diverted from the immediate hazard, but the flight plan filed admitted that the legal fuel reserve requirement did not exist.
The caution panel was set for night light levels and the low fuel segment may not have been visible when it illuminated.
Every issue existing is covered by some company document or another that duty pilots routinely sign to indicate compliance.
The pistol is loaded, aimed, cocked, and finger on the trigger...

Full down autorotations are exceptional at present. Autorotational descents are timidly entered in fixed training scenarios, in which the engine is producing significant thrust. There is a world of difference between the training scenarios typical and a complete power loss at cruise airspeed. Training that tippy-toes around at training airspeed and altitudes trains pilots to the wrong immediate actions in the real world. I can't recall the last "power chop" in cruise...

[SASless]

Devil,

If the guy had to sign off on Shift Change Forms that he had checked the fuel....and changed aircraft later in the day.....does that not require yet another round of box ticking after the action is performed?

[SilsoeSid]

If the guy had to sign off on Shift Change Forms that he had checked the fuel....and changed aircraft later in the day.....does that not require yet another round of box ticking after the action is performed?

SASless, why do you continue to ask questions that are answered in the report that you linked to in post #1, instead of stating what was found?

"Company procedures required that the pilot perform a preflight inspection of the helicopter, which included checking the fuel quantity, before it was returned to service. The mechanic did not know whether the pilot performed a preflight inspection of the helicopter before departing on the accident trip. Examination of the helicopter’s daily flight log revealed that the pilot did not sign it as required by the GOM to indicate that he had completed the preflight inspection. The pilot also did not take fuel samples from the helicopter on the day of the accident as required by the GOM. Further, three “conform your aircraft” (CYA) entries dated August 26, 2011, were made by the mechanic in the helicopter’s maintenance logbook, but the pilot did not initial the CYA entries as required by the GOM."

[500guy]

It’s pretty obvious that the guy had his head so far up his own arse he couldsee what he had for lunch that day.

Humans make mistakes, and I'll give him the first few as human errors, butwhen he made the decision to continue to his destination knowing he would bewell below min fuel that was not a mistake, that was a conscious andunforgivable violation of law and policy that killed him and the whole crew. Unfortunatelyhe took the other poor souls along for the ride.

The texting itself is a symptom of his mental state and ambivalence, andwhile it may be a contributing factor it is certainly not by any means thecause or even a cause of the accident.

[Devil 49]

One signs a form documenting preflight inspection specific to each aircraft flown, although it's heavily oriented towards maintenance status. The preflight checklist does not include fuel quantity.
The company requires a risk assessment matrix prior to each flight that includes fuel aboard vs required minimum. A statement of fuel aboard duration and planned ETE are required in company flight plan. The accident pilot discussed the fuel situation with flight following prior to departure on the final leg, admitting that his initial estimate was incorrect. Then, the last plan filed included a self admitted violation of regulation and policy in that it does not abide by the required minimum reserve, and still proved incorrect in calculating fuel aboard duration and duration.

[SilsoeSid]

Pretty blunt summing up 500. IMHO the texting has to be considered to be a major contributing cause, especially during the period identified when the preflights & prep were being carried out as well as in flight. Maybe not the actual physical act of texting, but the effect that the text conversations must have been having on the individual throughout the day.

"His wife was pregnant with their first child, his father had recently undergone cardiac surgery, and he had recently moved to a new city but was still commuting to his old base in St. Joseph. In addition, on the day of the accident, he was making social plans to meet his coworker for dinner after his work shift."

A text may take a second or 2 to read, but then you have to assess and react to it depending on it's subject matter. If the message is, 'Dinner is ribs tonight and it's on me', no worries ... If it's, 'Dad's feeling a bit weak and gone to bed early', it puts the mind into a different frame.

All of the company's flight crew were CRM trained and current, yet right from the very start, the cheese slices can be seen to line up.

[SilsoeSid]

Devil
One signs a form documenting preflight inspection specific to each aircraft flown, although it's heavily oriented towards maintenance status. The preflight checklist does not include fuel quantity.

"Company procedures for performing a preflight inspection required the pilot to confirm that there was an adequate quantity of fuel on board by turning on the helicopter’s master electrical switch and observing the fuel quantity gauge."

"The pilot’s second missed opportunity was immediately before the flight to Harrison County Community Hospital began when he should have completed the before-takeoff confirmation checklist, which included checking the fuel quantity. 24"

24 The Air Methods GOM, page B-7/R-5/01-15-11, states, “A before start/before takeoff confirmation checklist will be provided and affixed to each instrument panel in plain view of the pilot. The confirmation checklist will include essential items that will be confirmed by the pilot before each start and takeoff. Prior to start and liftoff each pilot will verbally challenge him or herself and respond verbally to each item on the confirmation checklist to ensure that each item is complete.”