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Nervous SLF
20th Sep 2013, 02:12
Two security vulnerabilities have been discovered in Apple's new mobile operating system, less than 24 hours after its launch.
One flaw concerns a user's ability to recover their data if a device has been stolen. The much-vaunted "Find my iPhone" feature
can be disabled be a thief simply by putting the iPhone or iPad into airplane mode, preventing the device from communicating.
In iOS7 this can be done even when the phone is locked with a passcode, as the voice-activated assistant Siri can be instructed to
carry out the task.
The other flaw is potentially even more serious - allowing users' email and social networking accounts to be hijacked even
when the user has locked and password-protected their phone,
In this video the BBC's North America technology correspondent Richard Taylor explains the security glitch and a way to
prevent it.Apple has said it takes security "very seriously" and will issue a fix in a future software update.


BBC News - Security holes unearthed in Apple's iOS7 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24170429)

TWT
20th Sep 2013, 03:33
And the fingerprint scanner will send your fingerprint direct to the NSA,to add to all the details about you they already know :p

FerrypilotDK
20th Sep 2013, 07:34
Heh Nervous, did you actually watch the BBC video? It is a heads up that relates to an option, including the "fix," but the danger is far less than hijacking accounts, as it only allows someone to send photos from a stolen device to the owner's account. Could be embarrassing, but hardly a big deal.

Background Noise
20th Sep 2013, 07:39
Just read it too - it's a good point. I always thought that being able to access the control centre from a locked phone was not a good idea. Kind of defeats the 'find my phone' system if it can be put into airplane mode when locked.

Access to control centre from the lock screen can be disabled in settings.

Watch the video.

PS:
as it only allows someone to send photos from a stolen device to the owner's account
.. surely it allows someone to send FROM the owner's account.

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 08:09
I'm not an Apple person, but my other half is very much addicted to her iPad. It did this update automatically to iOS7 last night and now the house is filled with screams of frustration. Apparently everything has changed, nothing is as it should be and she's complaining about all sorts of things that the update seems to have changed.

I know nothing at all about Apple stuff but fear I shall be dragged in to try and remove the update and put the thing back to how it was before all this turmoil, if only for my own peace and quiet.

Nervous SLF
20th Sep 2013, 08:21
Sorry if I have upset some on here only as someone who knows nothing about Apple I thought I would post what the BBC ( NOT me ) said.

handsfree
20th Sep 2013, 08:37
VP959, I'm sure she'll get used to it. It's a bit unfamiliar at first but when you get used to it I would say it's an improvement.
Text is a lot easier to read and I would say it's faster as well.

I'm not sure that you can remove updates.

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 10:00
VP959, I'm sure she'll get used to it. It's a bit unfamiliar at first but when you get used to it I would say it's an improvement.
Text is a lot easier to read and I would say it's faster as well.

I'm not sure that you can remove updates.

I suspect you're right, although it is bad news indeed if you can't restore the thing back to how it was before this happened.

She had no idea it was going to do this, apparently when she turned it on yesterday it just locked up for an hour or so while it merrily updated, without so much as a by your leave. I dare say there is some setting on the damned thing that defaults to "just let us take over your life" or somesuch.

She has already queried why it wanted her email address, it turns out the damned thing has decided to send all her personal data, photos etc out in to the ether somewhere, which is really dodgy in my view, and has set up something equally dodgy called "facetime", which we'll have to get rid of ASAP as well, I think.

I'm currently researching just what happened and how much of her personal data went off via the ether to Apple in order to try and get it back or be absolutely assured that it is deleted, but right now it's fair to say she's pretty upset and angry about this invasion of privacy.

I'm busy searching the web to try and find how we can undo things and try and find a way to stop this ever happening again.

I do wish the manufacturers of some of these gadgets would realise that there are a number of their customers who just don't want things to change, they like them exactly as they are and who absolutely value their privacy, and don't want any of their personal data stuffed away on some Apple server, no matter what. It seems very "big brother" to force a major change on a product after someone has bought it and seemingly without their express permission (she says the thing didn't tell her what it was going to do when it went off and did it's thing, but my guess is that it may have popped up some sort of innocuous sounding message).

Airborne Aircrew
20th Sep 2013, 10:45
Hmmm... My, (reluctantly purchased), iPhone just asked me if I want to go ahead and install iOS7. I was going to until I read this...

T'was always the way with Apple products though, the victory of marketing over good sense... :E

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 10:58
As far as I can tell so far, it seems that the thing backed up everything on her iPad to some Apple server somewhere, including personal photos, emails etc, etc, before it went ahead with this update.

Teenagers may well not have many concerns about privacy, but we're both of an age where it means a great deal to us.

Having worked with people who used to regular assure me that any bit of information on any server anywhere in the world could be got at if they wanted to, having this thing send lots of personal stuff somewhere out in the ether has the pair of us pretty focussed on getting it deleted at the moment.

So far I think we've wasted around two or three hours apiece this morning trying to find out just what has gone where and who may be able to access it by fair means or foul.

I'm still trying to work out how on earth we can force Apple to delete all this personal stuff, and how we can be assured that once it's deleted it really is deleted, as quite frankly the pair of us are pretty scared to death by what this thing seems to have done.

austerwobbler
20th Sep 2013, 11:23
I have heard that once your unit is updated with Ios7 there is no going back Vp959 :ugh:

" how true this is I don't know "

austerwobbler:bored:

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 11:26
This is true, it seems, there is no going back,

We've managed to seemingly delete the stuff that Apple so kindly decided to backup and store on one of their servers, but to be honest I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that there aren't copies of all her photos, emails etc floating around somewhere within Apple.

We've been unable to restore some of the things that were very useful, like the direct link to the manual (that seems to have departed forever, making it even harder to find out how to restore things!). We haven't been able to get rid of the garish colours of the new icons, either, they look as if they've been designed by a teenager and given to a toddler to colour.

All told it's fair to say that this has not been a particularly great experience, and has put me off getting an iPad (I was seriously contemplating it until this morning). My other half is still very disgruntled about the way things have been "messed up", as she puts it.

I'm a great supporter of the "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" principle. In this case I rather think Apple ignored this principle, as they've managed to turn someone who was a an ardent fan of her iPad to someone who is now fairly unhappy with it.

ExXB
20th Sep 2013, 11:38
For the Manual - try using the iBooks App (one of the Apple Apps that can't be deleted) and search for iOS 7 manual. If you find it (it may be too early) you can download it.

Edited to add - just had a look. It's called iPad User guide for iOS 7, a free download. There are some other guides, not from Apple, that are also available - but not free. Your mileage may vary.

angels
20th Sep 2013, 11:48
Ah, that's what my wife was whinging about last night. I knew it was to do with an I-Phone update.

VP - I'm afraid the Feds have the lot, whether or not they use it.

superq7
20th Sep 2013, 11:50
I have been trying for the last couple of hours how to download pictures from an I pad to PPRuNE it is possible but no success yet, any ideas ? :ugh:

ExXB
20th Sep 2013, 11:56
As to the thinking behind the look and feel of the new OS, this (http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/11/jony-ives-debutes-ios-7-bringing-order-to-complexity/) is what the designer has to say.

I'm not saying I agree, or not. Don't shoot the messenger.

ExXB
20th Sep 2013, 11:58
I have been trying for the last couple of hours how to download pictures from an I pad to PPRuNE it is possible but no success yet, any ideas ? :ugh:

I understood that PPRuNe only allowed you to link to images on the Internet, not to files stored on devices.

superq7
20th Sep 2013, 12:03
ExX

I understand that and you have to do it via Photobucket or similar, but it is very complicated for a moron like me.

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 12:07
Thanks for the tip about the manual, one wonders why they thought it a good idea to delete the one that was on the device before this change and not provide the new one.

Still, on a more positive note it has made me get off the fence and decide to get an Android tablet, rather than an iPad. I simply don't think I could stand the fluorescent colours on the iPad screen. The problem now is that there are far too many Android tablets to choose from, which maybe why so many find it easier to just buy an iPad and let Apple make all their decisions for them.

racedo
20th Sep 2013, 12:08
Best use for Apple and Blackberry is a nice crumble with custard.........

G-CPTN
20th Sep 2013, 13:57
rT_OmTMwvZI

The English ones towards the end are fascinating . . .

Worrals in the wilds
20th Sep 2013, 14:36
Hmmm... My, (reluctantly purchased), iPhone just asked me if I want to go ahead and install iOS7. I was going to until I read this...

I haven't had all those dramas, though it is quite different to use. You can set an apple device to backup to your computer rather than sending all your info to Applenet, though I recall a few pouty messages about how Applenet was such a better idea. IIRC you manage this through ITunes.

I'm only guessing but it sounds like Mrs VP959 hadn't previously selected this option, so it defaulted to sending everything into the ether. I set the backup options using the previous IOS, and it didn't ask any questions with this update.

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 14:43
I'm only guessing but it sounds like Mrs VP959 hadn't previously selected this option, so it defaulted to sending everything into the ether.

Got it in one. Neither of us had a clue this was going to happen and she innocently thought that the update was just one of those things that the thing would do from time to time.

Having never owned or played with an Apple product before, despite having had a PC at home since around 1990, I was a bit taken aback this morning to find just how little access you have to the core of the operating or file system.

It seems that you just have to take it on trust that there's nothing nefarious going on, as there doesn't seem to be any way to look in depth at anything within the system. That alone seems to be a pretty scary thing, to me, at least. I rather like to know a bit about what anything I'm using is doing, like who it might be exchanging data with, what processes might be running in the background etc.

rgbrock1
20th Sep 2013, 14:44
Applenet? I thought backups of iThingy's was done to the iCloud?

AA: go ahead and update the damn thing! My son has a 5th Gen iPod Touch (which he got from dear old dad for his birthday), he updated it and is happier than a clam. (Are clams ever really happy? Yet another one of life's many enigmas.)

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 14:49
It does back up to the iCloud and by default switches iCloud sharing on, which is a pretty scary thing in itself. Quite why anyone would ever trust any multinational corporation to store their personal data, photos etc, and trust that they have adequate security in place, and won't be tempted to rummage around in it to extract useful marketing info, is beyond me.

As Apple provide 5Gb of iCloud space "free" they are pretty much advertising that they will snoop around for marketing stuff, else how are they making a profit from it? The old saying that there's no such thing as a free lunch has to apply, I'm sure.

I back up personal data to a 32Gb USB stick and a local network drive every evening, both encrypted with Truecrypt, and even then I'm not 100% sure that everything is safe.

rgbrock1
20th Sep 2013, 14:56
VP959:

I have no problems with storing some documents, photos, etc. on servers provided by the likes of Apple, Google, Box, etc. If they want to go through my shit for marketing purposes, hey knock yourself out.

It's not the multinationals which I am concerned about. It's who the multinationals give the data to, upon unlawful demand, that worries me.

Worrals in the wilds
20th Sep 2013, 15:02
Applenet? I thought backups of iThingy's was done to the iCloud?
Skynet (Terminator) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator))
The Apple version (or an early model :E). My own personal name for iCloud. I don't have a cloud for much the same reasons as VP959 mentions. It's not compulsory, though if you don't set one up you get a lot of hopeful 'reminders' about it.

Everyone with an iPhone learns the hard way that software updates can be a bit hairy. :uhoh: I got bitten a few updates ago when my address book got eaten. A few people I know had the same issue, and although I eventually got it back it was a lesson well learned.

Keef
20th Sep 2013, 15:12
I got an SMS from Giffgaff this morning, telling me that if I've updated to iOS7 and lost Internet connectivity I needn't worry because the instructions to fix it are on their website.

That didn't fill me with confidence!

I'm with VP959 - I like to know what's going on and to be able to access my stuff. Hence my iPhone and iPad are jailbroken (and much more useable as a result).

I'm waiting for jailbroken iOS7.1

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 15:18
What I can't understand is why Apple chose to foist this on a bunch of very happy customers.

My other half was ecstatic with her iPad, as were a couple of her friends who also have them. Overnight all that joy at owning a very nice product seems to have evaporated, pretty much ensuring that she'll have second thoughts before ever buying another Apple product (and convincing me, as a waverer, not to).

Keef
20th Sep 2013, 15:37
That's the Apple product philosophy: it works for the great majority of users.
The products are good, they do what they say, and Apple decides what you can and can't do with them.

ExXB
20th Sep 2013, 15:48
Thanks for the tip about the manual, one wonders why they thought it a good idea to delete the one that was on the device before this change and not provide the new one.

Because they have different manuals for different devices and they don't know what device you are using. Also the e-book does take up memory and its likely other users would not want Apple to auto-install. It also increases the size of the download, which the didn't want to do during the first weeks. Apparently over 18% of iOS users updated in the first 48 hours.

Use the Apple support forums (https://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa), lots of information, tips and help there. While hosted by Apple the forums are not managed by them. So you get unbiased results from fellow users.

It may be only the look and feel that the Mrs dislikes but that can be tweaked. If there is a lot of people with the same views Apple will change it - they have done it before and they will do it again. Also think long and hard about if you really want two different devices with two different operating systems. If that means you drag the Mrs to Android, so be it, but you could end up with alternating headaches and be unable to help each other.

Good luck, and thanks for not shooting the messenger.

Groundbased
20th Sep 2013, 15:50
Firstly it's too damn big, Ios 7 needs 2.9Gb of space. On an 8Gb I phone 4 that's just too much.

I like the phone but not so much that I will drop a load of cash to upgrade to a 5. I never take Apple OS upgrades early because they always cause a load of problems.

rgbrock1
20th Sep 2013, 15:52
Let's also keep in mind that Apple doesn't require anyone to upgrade. If you don't like what you see then don't upgrade: it's that simple.

Working in the I.T. field I encounter people who are resistant to change on an almost daily basis. And I understand that. In the corporate world, change in the I.T. field is mandatory. If you don't like it, find a job somewhere else then. But Apple is not forcing the update to iOS 7 on anyone.

VP959
20th Sep 2013, 16:04
You're right, RGB, but my other half had absolutely no idea that when she said "yes" (or whatever) to a small update notice it was going to do what it has.

Had the thing displayed a prominent warning that it was going to backup her personal stuff to iCloud, mess up the look and feel of the thing, delete the instruction manual and generally introduce changes she doesn't like and didn't need, then I'm certain she'd not have accepted the invitation to upgrade.

I.R.PIRATE
20th Sep 2013, 18:14
Your wives are spoilt.

Mine only has an iRon, which requires no backups, updates or any such tomfoolery.

ExXB
20th Sep 2013, 18:18
Here (http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipad-iphone/news/?newsid=3469837&pagtype=allchandate) are some instructions to reinstall iOS6 overtop of an iOS7 base.

Let us know how it goes. Macworld is a reputable Apple resource


Edited to add: But please do a backup to your PC using iTunes first !

ShyTorque
20th Sep 2013, 20:50
Firstly it's too damn big, Ios 7 needs 2.9Gb of space.

:confused: ?? The download to the Iphone here was 168Mb.

Worrals in the wilds
20th Sep 2013, 21:21
My other half was ecstatic with her iPad, as were a couple of her friends who also have them. Overnight all that joy at owning a very nice product seems to have evaporated, pretty much ensuring that she'll have second thoughts before ever buying another Apple product (and convincing me, as a waverer, not to). I know where she's coming from. My first smartphone was an iphone 3, which I adored. Then came the dreaded IOS update and it was all different :uhoh:. However, I got used to the new software surprisingly quickly (and I'm a person who runs a DOS emulator on my PC so I can play proper sidescrolling VGA games, not this new 3D rendered hogwash :\) so all was forgiven.

IMO it pays to give it a go, because after a few more updates I now just see it as all part of the fun. The IO7 looks prettier and has a few extra gimmicks, which at the end of the day is what ithingies are mostly about. While the first update you do is alarming (particularly when you're not expecting it, and Apple DON'T make it clear) it's worth persevering through it, because they're easier the second time when you know what's coming.

If you're a cautious soul it's easier to leave the update for a few weeks so you can read up on the new features and traps for unwary players. It also gives Apple a chance to fix any major dramas.

Either way, as both she and I learned the hard way, software updates are best left for a quiet afternoon when you have a couple of hours free, ready access to another internet source and a supply of nice, refreshing beverages :cool:. It's also important to back the device up regularly on another computer and definitely do so before installing an update, particularly if you use it to store irreplaceable photos and your contacts list. :(

hval
20th Sep 2013, 21:30
I have an iPhone 4 and an iPad 4. iPhone 4 I updated the day of the release of IOS7. It took 8 hours. I have had no problems with it.

My iPad took about ten minutes (not so many people trying to upgrade). Had no problems here.

There are things I like and dislike about IOS7, but then that was the same with all previous versions of IOS.

Hey ho. To me they are tools (iPhone and iPad).

I was aware of what IOS7 was like and what it would do for me before I upgraded.

I am sure that things will settle down for everyone and once people get used to the new look and the new way IOS works they will accept it.

I do agree with comments people have made that appearance wise it is a retrograde step. It looks like things did twelve or more years ago. Not necessarily a bad thing.

fenland787
20th Sep 2013, 22:06
rgbrock1
In the corporate world, change in the I.T. field is mandatory. If you don't like it, find a job somewhere else then.

An interesting comment - accurate too I'm sure - but I wonder if anyone has ever considered that, actually, a bit less change in the corporate I.T. world would be a very good thing and would increase productivity, reduce workforce stress and improve the bottom line?

The rate of change of the tools we use daily is increasing and while I don't deny some of the changes do bring improvements to the way that tool does what we need, the disruption and frustration of re-learning how to use that tool mostly outweighs the (very often) marginal benefits the upgrade/change brings. I'm talking I.T. folk here as well as the users BTW!

I watched the engineering arm of an aerospace company almost brought to it's knees by a head office mandate that all the Linux based servers that had run things for years were to be replaced with Windows AD based ones and all workstations would be Windows 7. This was regardless of the fact that the whole permissions structure that the CM system relied on could not be 'ported' to AD and that (at that time) most of the compilers and other development tools the engineers used were not available for win 7 ...but perhaps this is another thread!

mixture
20th Sep 2013, 22:08
The much-vaunted "Find my iPhone" feature
can be disabled be a thief simply by putting the iPhone or iPad into airplane mode, preventing the device from communicating.

No sh*t sherlock, you don't say ! :rolleyes:

Talk about stating the :mad: obvious.

If you take out the SIM card, put it in Airplane mode... of course it can't communicate with the internet and hence tell people where you are.

As for the other security issue, you can disable that feature in settings until Apple release an update.

mixture
20th Sep 2013, 22:10
I like the phone but not so much that I will drop a load of cash to upgrade to a 5.

The 5 is actually a worthwhile upgrade from the 4.

The screen is better, the processor is better, the device is more compact.

Worrals in the wilds
20th Sep 2013, 22:43
I watched the engineering arm of an aerospace company almost brought to it's knees by a head office mandate that all the Linux based servers that had run things for years were to be replaced with Windows AD based ones and all workstations would be Windows 7. This was regardless of the fact that the whole permissions structure that the CM system relied on could not be 'ported' to AD and that (at that time) most of the compilers and other development tools the engineers used were not available for win 7 ...but perhaps this is another thread!
This is the sort of thing that turns formerly keen employees into variations of the Dilbert cartoon's Wally character. Sometimes it's the last defence. :ouch:
http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/50000/3000/300/53325/53325.strip.sunday.gif

FerrypilotDK
21st Sep 2013, 02:28
VP..... Just to make a few comments. Most important, you are over-reacting. Truly. It was an honest mistake on the part of your wife, but it was indeed she that made it, not Apple.
There have been hundreds of articles talking about the coming ios7 and the look and features. I know not everyone is "interested," but one would have to be really avoiding all iPhone and ios7 talk, to not have heard about it. Anyway, in innocence it seems, she has chosen to say yes to the new system. That cannot be the fault of Apple.

So now that you are there, she also decided to choose to back-up to iCloud. That was also her choice. I am an avid Apple user and have been since 1984, so I have seen many different things. But I have chosen to backup mail, contacts, notes and a couple other things. Nothing else. Steve Jobs had a hard time convincing the board of Apple that they should offer this free, but they made the decision. It works pretty good and it simply means that if I get a contact from a handler, I can add it to my phone, and I then have it on my iPad and computer. This is great as a time saver and as everything else is backed up to my computer, if I ever destroy my phone or iPad, or it gets lost, I can recreate it. Also very very cool.
Find My iPhone, means that you can trace it if misplaced or stolen and actually track it down and get it back, as many already have. You can also brick it to protect all your information, if you cannot get it back.....this is done remotely. Again a great feature!
FaceTime permits you to have video connections. It is not "dangerous" but brilliant. When looking for a new house, my gf was working, but I could walk around the places I was looking at and show her everything, through the phone, live. (She was at a hotel, not doing private calls in working hours, like in an office......FA)

I can make a call to my daughter, who is sitting in a car, on FaceTime, and she can show me where she is (Hawaii) and what the surf was like (crap) as a little example. It costs 0!
Your wife can move the icons back where she wants them, if she doesn't like the placement. Quicker to do in iTunes, but also works on the iPad directly.
The look is brighter and whether you like it or not is just a matter of taste. There are so many neat features that I think she will come to like. The control panel, available from any App, if she swipes (iPad 2 or newer) with four fingers, she can move from app to app, without using the home button and searching for an icon, and the photos are now arranged by years and events, placed in geography categories.....making them MUCH easier to find.
The clock is now included, so you don't need another app for the alarm.
Give her a hug, tell her it will be great again.......give it a little time. It is easier to read, faster and "neater" in many ways. I am probably as old as you, so it is not like we are vast generations apart.
I will happily show her some things, if she is interested! Now for fun, take her iPad and with 4 fingers, pinch any App. It will bring you right to the home page! Just a little change, but imagine her surprise, no longer need to use the home button twice, for example. Use 4 fingers and swipe left to right or reverse. You can jump from app to app, making all work quicker.

Have fun!

ExXB
21st Sep 2013, 07:16
FerryPilot - excellent post, I've been using Apple products since the early 80s and upgrades have been difficult. The move from OS7 to OSX was particularly challenging. I waited a long time to upgrade and it took hours with many floppy disks - so you couldn't just leave it to do its own thing.

But in the end I'm still an Apple user, despite a work environment with PCs.

VP959
21st Sep 2013, 07:50
A bit of history. She wanted one of these, having seen two friends with them, so two months ago I bought her one. Neither of us had ever used anything made by Apple, neither of us ever read nerdy stuff on the web, she just wanted a nice toy to do a bit on online shopping, read and send emails, read books and keep a few photos. It was great, it did all those things very well, with the single exception of it being a complete pain when it came to getting photos from the network drive at home on to the iPad (we still haven't worked out how to do that, so have to email photos to the thing).

Neither of us had a clue about the operating system it used. To be honest, I had assumed it was hardwired into it, as it seemed to be pretty inflexible (the issue over not being able to see files on our home network, for example). Neither of us had the faintest idea that the whole operating system on this thing was going to be upgraded over the air, neither did we realise that it defaulted to backing things up somewhere on an Apple server (and I do now appreciate that there is a tick box in the settings that can turn that off if you understand where it is and what it means (it's on by default). We'd assumed this was just a gadget that was stand-alone, but with wifi to surf the web and send/receive email.

Obviously we were both naive but then I suspect that only a tiny number of customers for this sort of gadget are technically savvy enough to truly understand how it works and what's behind the very nice screen.

I'm going to have to try and follow the good advice given by ExXB and revert to the previous version, as she's no less annoyed this morning than she was yesterday. Funnily enough, the thing that seems to be the biggest problem for her is the way the screen has been "messed up" as she puts it. Not something that would particularly bother me, but then we're all different.

mixture
21st Sep 2013, 08:36
Neither of us had a clue about the operating system it used. To be honest, I had assumed it was hardwired into it, as it seemed to be pretty inflexible (the issue over not being able to see files on our home network, for example). Neither of us had the faintest idea that the whole operating system on this thing was going to be upgraded over the air, neither did we realise that it defaulted to backing things up somewhere on an Apple server (and I do now appreciate that there is a tick box in the settings that can turn that off if you understand where it is and what it means (it's on by default).

An example of the saying "ignorance is bliss" if ever there were one ! :ugh:

Most of that is utter rubbish as well, especially the part about it upgrading itself over the air. It does not you have to explicitly upgrade the operating system on an iPhone by plugging the thing into a PC/Mac and initiating the upgrade via iTunes.... there is no way you or your wife could not have known the upgrade was taking place. And even if there were a way to upgrade without plugging into iTunes (there may be, I've never tried), I'm fairly confident you'll find it'll be a multi-step process to initiate, so you'd definitely know what you're doing.

If you don't like Apple for whatever reason, fine, its a free world. But don't go trying to bash Apple for issues that were the result of your ignorance (or not reading messages presented to you on the screen properly).

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Sep 2013, 08:50
Sorry mixture, but I upgraded my iPhone 5 without having to plug it in anywhere. It's called wifi;)

mixture
21st Sep 2013, 08:52
Sorry mixture, but I upgraded my iPhone 5 without having to plug it in anywhere. It's called wif

Fine, but I bet it was made pretty clear to you that you were upgrading and that there was no way you could not know that was what you were doing.

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Sep 2013, 08:59
I'd say its not particularly clear, based solely on the info on the iPhone, unless you knew that iOS7 was on the way and you knew what it was going to change.

This update features a beautiful new design and contains hundreds of new features, including Control Centre, AirDrop, iTunes Radio and improvements to Notification Centre, Multitasking, Camera, Photos, Safari, Siri and more.

That's what the upgrade tells you. So unless you already know what all of that means I'm not sure you'd be able to predict the appearance of your 'new' gadget.

mixture
21st Sep 2013, 09:22
This update features a beautiful new design and contains hundreds of new features, including Control Centre, AirDrop, iTunes Radio and improvements to Notification Centre, Multitasking, Camera, Photos, Safari, Siri and more.

(a) What was the update called ? That probably gave you a hint.
(b) That description alone doesn't leave you in much doubt its going to be a fairly major upgrade.

I'll have a look on mine if I get a chance at some point...

FerrypilotDK
21st Sep 2013, 10:08
OK guys......let's be a bit more kind in the tone. Although it is hard to believe that the messages about iOS7 did not seep through, and it is clear that there were several stages of choices and no one forced 7 or did it automatically, he still has the missus in the background with a couple issues and he himself is looking at getting a great tool.
....and to that-----it is not a toy, it is a great tool. Like I said, just going through the iBooks for the free books will have enough to read for years! Literally, if you are at all interested in classics.

I would ask you though to try some of the things I mentioned. Although I just did my iPad yesterday (writing on it now) it really is streamlined and easy to access. I did one of the iPhones first, to see if everything worked, when I saw the improvement.....and there we're few things I had to think about, I did the iPad, and then last night after writing, I did iPhone number 2. Which again, demonstrates that it was totally voluntary.

Give her a couple days. The work involved in going back is not worth it. Show her a couple of the new features. I have a question regarding your "home network" as you call it and relating to your photos. Do you have iPhoto on your computer? It is a great tool, works on PCs, includes some very useful tools for accessing your photos and altering them, zooming, clipping etc. By having iPhoto and iTunes on your computer (both free BTW) then you can move things easily back and forth. Now if you had a Mac, one of the greatest features now is AirDrop, and then it all works independently AND you can send from one source to everyone nearby, if you needed to share a file or photo with a group at a meeting for example.

It is a bit sad to see that you thought it was hard-wired in anything. That is the beauty of the iPad, you can alter it through software,a and use it for real time radar screen, as mentioned, I have access to all the high and low en route charts and approaches in the whole world, GPS Nav, films, books, aircraft manuals, weight and balance, logbook, and I can point it at the sky at night and see the names of the stars! Not a toy or a gadget!

Download iTranslate (also free) and create an extra keyboard for French, Russian, Hebrew.....and you can carry on conversations with anyone, translated and with a keyboard they can use to answer. Now not everyone needs this, but try it on a laptop or a mainframe.......multiple keyboards, Chinese, Hindi, Arabic, Russian..........amazing power!

But I digress, let her get used to the features and the new look. It is an improvement and faster and slicker. If she wants to go back after 10 days, go for it, but I doubt it.

Good luck

mixture
21st Sep 2013, 10:12
I'd say its not particularly clear, based solely on the info on the iPhone, unless you knew that iOS7 was on the way and you knew what it was going to change.

Ok, have checked on my phone, and I call bull.

For a start, to run the upgrade locally without plugging in, you can't just go into the AppStore app, you have to go to Settings -> General ->Software Update.

The title of the software update is quite clearly "iOS 7.0", and if you tap on "Learn More"... it presents you with a whole litany of things it updates, so its quite clear it is a major update.

So it's absolute rubbish that people don't know what they're getting into.

End of story.

FerrypilotDK
21st Sep 2013, 10:14
BTW the screen is "messed up?" It is just different and if you can get her to define what she means a little better, maybe you can smooth her. Perhaps she is feeling a little guilty that she did this herself and making more of a deal out of it than necessary?

You say she has friends with iPads, but you seemingly did not know what FaceTime was. Maybe she should use it to chat with them. What a revelation that would be for her!

G-CPTN
21st Sep 2013, 10:17
Maybe iPad and iPhone update initiation is different?

VP959
21st Sep 2013, 10:17
mixture, I'm afraid you're wrong about the upgrade on an iPad.

All that happened (apparently, I didn't see it at the time, I was watching TV, she was surfing on the iPad) was a box popped up on screen saying something like "an update is available". She didn't think anything of it, so just pressed the button and it then locked up for an hour or so, with a progress bar (she went to bed and left it doing this overnight, as it was taking so long). The next morning it asked for details, like her email address and password and asked some obscure question (I know one was about something called "facetime", which I assume is like face book, so I told her to definitely say no to it).

I had to spend an hour or so surfing around the web to try and find out how to fix some of the things that this update had thrown up, because the manual on the iPad had disappeared as part of the update (and it didn't have a paper copy). It was only then that we found that it had backed up on to the iCloud and that we needed to change some settings within the device to regain her privacy and stop it doing this in future.

BTW the screen is "messed up?" It is just different and if you can get her to define what she means a little better, maybe you can smooth her. Perhaps she is feeling a little guilty that she did this herself and making more of a deal out of it than necessary?

You say she has friends with iPads, but you seemingly did not know what FaceTime was. Maybe she should use it to chat with them. What a revelation that would be for her!

We're pensioners, we don't have an interest in the teenage obsession with social media. If we wish to talk with people we go and visit them, or perhaps use the telephone. Her friends are also pensioners, one of them is in her late 70's and finds the iPad much easier to use than a PC.

One thing you find as you age is that it becomes a lot more difficult to adapt to change, as learning new skills, new technical terms etc takes a lot, lot longer than it does when you're younger.

The really great thing about the iPad is that it was easy and intuitive to use in the main (although getting photos on to it does seem to be rather a challenge).

mixture
21st Sep 2013, 10:25
Maybe iPad and iPhone update initiation is different?

Unlikely, the iOS codeset is pretty much shared amongst the devices as far as I know, but I've just lent someone my iPad for the weekend, so can't check right now.

was a box popped up on screen saying something like "an update is available". She didn't think anything of it, so just pressed the button and it then locked up for an hour or so,

I think I know of the box of which you speak, and I'm pretty confident that when you press "OK", it takes you to the software update screen I mentioned above. I'm 99.9999% sure you'll find its a multi-step process to initiate the update, irrespective of the way you find yourself to the software update screen.

VP959
21st Sep 2013, 10:38
I can't say for sure what the iPad asked her to do, but do know that it can't have mentioned anything technical, or else she'd have asked me to take a look (this is based on me always being called whenever the anti-virus thing on her PC pops an update box up - I always have to go in and select the right option for her).

The bottom line here was that she was fooled into doing something that has changed the way the iPad looks and feels. It's noticeable that it's been sat on the table for 24 hours now without being used, so it rather looks as if the changes have put her off using it, which is a shame.

I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and try and follow the advice on the link given by ExXB to put it back to how it was, otherwise I think it may become just an expensive ornament.

I fully accept that youngsters can just soak up this stuff in seconds and enjoy the challenges of change. As older folk we struggle a bit with new stuff; even after two years I find Windows 7 very hard going indeed, and dearly wish I still had my old PC with XP, which I found very easy indeed to work with.

G-CPTN
21st Sep 2013, 10:48
after two years I find Windows 7 very hard going indeed,
Then you definitely don't want to move onto Windoze 8.

My son, an IT professional, swears about W8 . . .

fenland787
21st Sep 2013, 11:32
I find Windows 7 very hard going indeed, and dearly wish I still had my old PC with XP, which I found very easy indeed to work withAs a GOG* of an engineer who uses computers for work all day, I run this:

Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements (http://www.classicshell.net/)

in XP mode on all my Win7 machines and have done so for years. I like it, and it works fine, never had an issue with it so I can just get on with my working life.

It doesn't deal with the silly 'Library' concept but I can just ignore all that as all my data files are on Linux based NAS(s) with directory structures of my choosing!

It also can't untangle the brilliant Micro$oft W7 concept that a second network without a DHCP server (even if you don't want to use it) is not a real network to be trusted - but that probably only affects idiots like me who want to talk to TCP/IP based control systems.

As G-CPTN says do not, repeat not, even think about Windoze 8 - even the Microsoft Fan Boys around here, who face the direction of Redmond thrice daily to give thanks, admit it ain't great!!

*Grumpy Old G*t

Lord Spandex Masher
21st Sep 2013, 12:25
Ok, have checked on my phone, and I call bull.

For a start, to run the upgrade locally without plugging in, you can't just go into the AppStore app, you have to go to Settings -> General ->Software Update.

The title of the software update is quite clearly "iOS 7.0", and if you tap on "Learn More"... it presents you with a whole litany of things it updates, so its quite clear it is a major update.

So it's absolute rubbish that people don't know what they're getting into.

End of story.

Yes, but do people really understand the implications of such an upgrade? Unless you understand Apple and you've researched iOS7 how the hell are you supposed to know what "Airdrop" is or what the "beautiful new design" looks like, for example?

Anyway, doesn't bother me I knew what I was getting. I'm just trying to see it from another perspective. Try it

FerrypilotDK
21st Sep 2013, 12:28
AS I explained, FaceTime is not social media, nothing like Facebook. You make a phone call? This is simply a free phone call with video. Simple, easy.....no big deal. What is wrong with free and video?

Anyway.......hope I never get that old..... My GF's parents are in their 70s, and love being able to see the grandchildren on the "call." He'll, they even like seeing the dog and the cat!

She's just being obstinate now and so I give up.

Ciao

VP959
21st Sep 2013, 12:44
FerrypilotDK,

I just hope that I never get as intolerant and incapable of understanding the honestly held views of those less technically literate as you seem to be.

Lord Spandex Masher has summed it up well, this was an easy mistake for someone with very little technical understanding of the way Apple products work to make.

She regrets having done it, I regret having had to waste time finding out how to try and fix it, and I hope that she does start using again, or else I will also regret the not inconsiderable slice of my pension it cost to buy it.

ExXB
21st Sep 2013, 12:48
Some suggestions (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/tips-for-making-the-change-to-ios-7/) from the New York Times on migration.

I'd like to thank VP for bringing his trials and tribulations to our attention. Not everyone is a wizz-kid when it comes to this stuff. I had been planing on just updating my father-in-laws iPad next time we are over, but now I'm going to do it cautiously. Make sure his favourite apps are in the same spot, that they work as expected, etc. probably use plain black as wallpaper to improve the contrast. But at the end of the day he does need to upgrade. We will soon be seeing Apps that will not work, or will not work well with older OSs.

FerrypilotDK
21st Sep 2013, 23:09
I just hope that I never get as intolerant and incapable of understanding the honestly held views of those less technically literate as you seem to be.

Well, I gave you examples of demonstrations, I asked for specifics as to what she actually meant with "messed up," as there might have been a way to address a specific issue, and some examples of improvements, that if she saw them demo'ed by you, then she might see the sense and reason it had been changed, as it becomes easier and quicker to access the information.

So what honestly held view are you talking about exactly? As far as intolerant, I was as helpful as I could be, I thought, even offering to help out and explaining what FaceTime was and examples (grand kids etc) of how it might be an eye-opener, even relating it to others in the same age group.

It isn't intolerance, it is when people, just turn off and continue to moan, instead of getting their stuff together an have a look at what they got.......and which was exactly a result of their own actions.

"It's messed up" is not anything useful, information-wise, and throwing FaceTime off the grid, because it has the word face in the title and it "might" be a social media app.......well, just seems like we shouldn't repair a motorcycle together. So now I will take my toolbox and go help someone else.

Wingswinger
22nd Sep 2013, 20:15
Have you tried going to the Apple website, clicking on "Support" then "Manuals"? You can down load manuals for both iPad IOS7 and iPhone IOS 7 and have a good read.

Denti
22nd Sep 2013, 21:10
To be honest, even without being computer savvy all someone needed to do was to read the newspapers or their websites. They all had the new look displayed and most had quite a few articles about what changed with iOS 7 over the last few weeks. Well, at least over here, which is not the US nor the UK.

The biggest change for me personally was the change of direction in swiping to delete emails, to the left now instead of to the right, the rest remains largely the except for the new control center of course, which is a very welcome addition.

Just cant wait for the new iPad now which will hopefully have the fingerprint sensor as well, gonna get one free of charge from my company, hate the unfortunately needed hassle of an eight digit lock code (current security requirement preset by the company).

Airborne Aircrew
23rd Sep 2013, 00:45
Denti:

the rest remains largely the except for the new control center of course,

That "sentence" largely proves why the rest of us should avoid it.... :ok:

Richo77
23rd Sep 2013, 06:30
I'm with Ferrypilot & LSM on this one, it is pretty clearly set out what it is and what it does.

To note, i downloaded it for the iPad, left it downloading and forgot about it. When it was finished i was taking a look and my 9 year old was explaining all the changes to me. I asked him how he knew, he looked at me like i had 2 heads and told me "i read the release notes whilst it was downloading". From there i downloaded it for my phone.

Heard so many horror stories and cant work it out, i showed all the iPhone users in my office how and where to download it and have had heard nothing but praise.

I get that not everyone is "tech savvy" but then why buy an iPhone or iPad if you a) cant operate it or b) are not willing to learn how to use it?

Blacksheep
23rd Sep 2013, 07:04
I was sent lots of advance information on iOs7. Most of my Apps sent me updates for iOs7 compatibility for several weeks in advance. I had to go to "Settings" and manually initiate the download, then I had to manually select "Install" to deliberately install the downloaded update. I could hardly wait.

I'm delighted with the result and the new Apps that come with it. All my old Apps are right there where I left them, resplendent in their new sharp icons. Well done Apple! Another advance in nice instinctive GUI design. (I'm only 66 years old, so perhaps I'm still young and sharp enough to enjoy technology for its own sake. Life is a game. Let's play!)

VP959
23rd Sep 2013, 07:17
All I can say is that I've never ever looked at anything made by Apple until a couple of months ago when I bought my other half this iPad (because I knew she wanted one).

To the best of my knowledge she had no advance warning of the details and implications of this upgrade; neither of us follow the deep goings on within the IT world.

I fully appreciate that some will be interested enough in how this stuff works to follow developments and spend time getting to understand the nuances of future changes. Unfortunately she sees it as just a gadget to do some internet shopping on, to look at family photos and to send and receive the occasional email, and has no interest in how it works or what the implications of any change might be.

It's water under the bridge now, anyway, as it seems this recent change has put her off using it. I noticed that she had reverted to using the PC last night, presumably because she still finds the changes to the iPad difficult to come to terms with. I've no interest in how Apple products work, and I've got better things to do with my time at the moment than spend it researching how to sort out the things she doesn't like with the changed iPad.

Blacksheep
23rd Sep 2013, 09:25
Unfortunately she sees it as just a gadget to do some internet shopping on, to look at family photos and to send and receive the occasional email, and has no interest in how it works or what the implications of any change might be.Safari is still Safari complete with all the same Favourites, Photos is still Photos, e-mail is still e-mail, and she (or someone close) must have been savvy enough to go to "Settings" read the details then download the upgrade and install it. :confused:

Blacksheep
23rd Sep 2013, 09:29
... just a thought. Mrs.BS never uses the App Store to update her Apps - she doesn't know what the red numbers at the bottom of the App Store icon are for: I do it for her once in a while. If she (or someone close) hasn't updated all the Apps that require iOS7 updates to work properly, then ... :uhoh:

ExXB
23rd Sep 2013, 11:40
Upgraded iPad 2 last night using iTunes. Following download took less than 10 minutes to complete.

Initial shock with look and feel, but the only changes I have detected are positive ones. I've made my wallpaper dark to improve the contrast.

Most Apps are being updated at the same time. Lots of updates coming through the App store, which is to be expected I suppose.