RAF oxygen mask question........

[D John]

Hi,

I have a P/Q type oxygen mask in my collection and want fit a connector to the end of the hose, I have a choice of these two, the top (6D/2116) is what I think should go on it to represent a 1980s Harrier pilot's mask..... would that be correct?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/milorgman/Time/OXYconnectors_zpsea852e4b.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/milorgman/media/Time/OXYconnectors_zpsea852e4b.jpg.html)
The lower connector (MC 3A/1) is what was on the mask when I purchased it, I'd always thought it was a US fitting but maybe it was for an RAF/RN Phantom?

Any information would be much appeciated!

cheers,

-John:ok:

[Tashengurt]

Neither of those are from a Harrier mask, indeed the top one is the other end. Its the connector from the top of a Personal equipment connector (PEC) which connects the mask to the seat.
The lower one is more like a V bomber connector. I'm sure the Ancient Squipper will be along to confirm soon enough. We used them at Farnborough but I can't honestly recall what for. In the hypobaric chamber I'd guess.

[D John]

Thanks for the quick reply Tashengurt,

so neither of these eh?........ I have a link to Mart aviation's site that shows a few connectors, I guess what I'm after then is the connector to the PEC.......

ROYAL AIR FORCE (http://www.mart-aviation.co.uk/P%20&%20Q%20Oxygen%20masks.htm)

cheers,

-John

[Courtney Mil]

OK, I admit this is based on a tenuous recollection but...

I think I had the top one was on my kit when training on the JP3 and the bottom one on the JP5.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

...or was the bottom one for both JPs? The EO2 connector being required where we had no PEC.

[ExAscoteer]

Bottom one looks like JP5 to me.

ISTR we had a similar connector on Albert for the Mk4 walk-around bottles.

[Pontius Navigator]

The top one is a top one and pretty standard for many types. The bottom one is also a bottom one.

OK, top of the tube attached to the mask, hose attached to the top one. Bottom connected to aircraft supply and 'tother end of hose.

Definitely not a V-force connector rear crew. IIRC, post-swivel seat mode the bottom connector was green but that is a distant memory. Pre-swivel seat the rear connector would have made a good hammer.

[FantomZorbin]

The bottom one was on the JP 3&4. The smaller connector on it was for the emergency oxygen on the bang seat.

[lightningmate]

As already noted, the top connector is fitted to the upper part of a relevant Breathing Gas Hose Assembly and is the interface for the Mask Tube male connector.

The second item is an Inlet Warning Connector, ie if not fully engaged with the breathing gas supply, then the mechanism does not allow you to breath. Big hint that all is not well :uhoh:. Used for various early aircraft, including the Hunter but not, if I recall correctly, the JP 3/4 with its Economiser Breathing Gas System.

lm

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Your top one may have been part of

http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/terminals.jpg

of which the other end looks like

http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/pec%20cu.jpg
Both from Martin Baker Mark 4 (http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/mkfourpics.html)

Either way, the connector in your top pictiure probably fits to the aircraft/seat and not the mask. As ever though, as in life, nothing in aviation is likely to be that clear cut.

[Stitchbitch]

The top one is a PEC quick disconnect coupling, which is indeed from the man portion of the Personal Equipment Connector, the lower bit is as lm noted aove, an inlet warning connector and is usually found on the bottom of the P19/Q19 Oxygen masks tube, and used in aircraft not equipped with a PEC (Hunter/Gazelle).The PEC pictured lower down looks like a Mk.1A? If you need the male portion of the first bit PM me.:ok:

[wiggy]

Bottom one looks like JP5 to me.


Certainly v similar to that used on the JP 5 and on other types(? Lightning) but not the JP3 or the F4 for that matter. As LM and others have said the red inlet was the main supply Inlet Warning Connector, for the hose from the aircraft regulator. The smaller side arm is the connector for the emergency O2 hose from the seat bottle.

[Lightning Mate]

As LM and others have said

Please be careful.

I am LM and he is lm.

[Stitchbitch]

Sorry lm (not LM) I didn't see your post above..:ok: so edited mine.:O

[dragartist]

John,
P and Q designations were used to describe the size of the face piece.
You refer to the Harrier. The top photo looks like the type of fitting that was on the end of the mask hose (the green one about 1" diameter)

The Harrier and Jaguar used a man mounted regulator known as a Type 317A or more modern 417A these fitted to some key hole slots on the breast plate on the LSJ.

Does the fitting carry a small tube up the middle? (Known as a compensator tube)

The masks used were V9 and V10 with hooks to connect to the helmet one was size P the other size Q. A mod was introduced to have mask Quick Release (MQR) fittings to the helmet. These were designated Type V11 and V12.

Meggitt made the regulators. I think their designation was MR20 (but that may have been the man mounted regulator we used on the Nimrod. I cant remember if it had just the Air Mix without the pressure breathing - 1.5" WG mask cavity pressure.

I hope you don't intend to use this mask for real without getting someone qualified to check it out on a proper rig.

There was a time when Loadmasters on the Herc required two types. One to hook up to the standard aircraft system and these Walk around bottles described above. And a second V type used on a supplementary O2 system we used at high altitude with the doors open where they used a Jaguar/Harrier type 417A or a 417F without the airmix. We were also developing a "H" regulator which had airmix. this was based on the MR20 and was not duplex as the A and F models were.

[D John]

Strike me pink dragartist, this is getting complicated!

I'm guessing the man mounted regulators you are talking about are these (1969 winners of the London - NY race)........

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/milorgman/Flight/1969Harrierracephoto01_zpsc3dfd362.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/milorgman/media/Flight/1969Harrierracephoto01_zpsc3dfd362.jpg.html)

Getting to be an interesting thread. (The mask and helmet I have are just part of my small collection, not to be used).

By the way, I wonder if any of the readers had anything to do with the London to NY race in 1969?

cheers,

-John

[ex-fast-jets]

Depressing Photo!:sad:

GW & TLT look so young.....................:*

I hope they both look a whole lot older now!!

[D John]

Yes they do look young but I'm guessing that you looked a little younger back then too!

The race was 44 years ago :eek: coal dust blowing all over the place in London, RAF pilot running around New York.......... funny times!

cheers,

-John

[dragartist]

Yes John,
Those look like the 317A out of the NGL design stable. the ones we had till 2001 ish for our C130 application, the circular bits on the front were all shiny where the paint or dyed anodising had worn off. We replaced them with the 417A (Jaguar type) as they became available when the Jaguars went out.

I arranged transfer of the 317s to Boscombe for use on their Alpha jets. I think in the end we only had a dozen that passed the bench tests. they had a skilled guy in their 02 bay who could make one good one from three. Oh there were also left hand and right hand versions which further complicated the issue. All you had to do was turn the bottom fitting around and change the stock number. that screwed the stackers computers up!

the masks we adapted were also a nightmare. had we [MoD] been sensible we would have held kits of parts like Lego. (I think this was the case pre 1990s) In the naughties each aircraft type appeared to have a top assembly they bought in. Various companies then gave all the individual parts new numbers. We were then being ripped off for spares. many of the mouldings including the main mask and exoskeleton were made by Camberley Rubber. The development having been completed in house at Farnborough (Pre QQ) yet all these 1st Tier suppliers were claiming IPR over bits they had not designed.

[Fg Off Bloggs]

I am sitting here looking at my P/Q Mask that I used on Bucc and/or GR1 (memory fade) and the mask comes with the O2 tube fitted to it and the 'male' connector that would fit into your top picture, which as has already been said is the 'female' connector at the top end of a Personal Equipment Connector (PEC).

Neither of your 2 pictures are at the mask to O2 tube connector end, which appears to be pushed into the soft green rubber face mask and secured with plastic grips!

Bloggs:8

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Like;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/1240251_636544359711282_1484348583_n.jpg

[Wetstart Dryrun]

A good sortie was characterised by the nonchalant carriage of the 'bone-dome' by holding the oxgen delivery tube, with the helmet, rucksack style, bouncing on the back.

...after a bad sortie, the helmet was transported a la 'Bobby Charlton'.

wets

[jimgriff]

Glad to see that my photo's of my trusty Mk 4BSC seat have come in handy for something :ok:

[wiggy]

Lm.,Lm, lM, lm......



I am LM and he is lm.

Bang to rights sorry, by way of apology I offer you this:

....Life of Brian "I'm Brian" - YouTube..

[D John]

O/K, just to clarify what I think is correct........


1/ Pre-Harrier types without PEC connector have the Inlet Warning Connector at the end of the mask O2 hose that you cannot breath through unless connected correctly to an O2 system. (aircraft mounted regulator).

2/ Early Harriers had a connector at the end of the mask O2 hose that connects to the man mounted regulator with the hose down to the PEC connector.

3/ Later Harrier types have a connector at the end of the mask O2 hose that connects directly into the end of a hose from the PEC connector (aircraft mounted regulator).

Just noticed in photos that even though the GR.7/9 were useing the later type, 'T-bird' aircrew still had the man mounted regulator setup.

Stitchbitch is kindly working on getting me the (3rd type) male connector that fits on the end of the Mask O2 hose.

I don't think I'm as confused as I was unless there's more to add?:confused:

cheers,

-John :ok:

[Ancient Squipper]

D John

Hope this helps

1-Top connector is known as the Mk7A oxygen quick disconnect half coupling (Bayonet connector) the part you need to fit the mask tube is the male Mk7 bayonet connector.

2-On the mini-man mounted regulator system the oxygen mask hose connector fitted to the top of the regulator with the PEC 1/2 inch diameter oxygen supply hose being attached to the base of the regulator and the other end to the PEC man portion sole (Base) plate by a screw thread and captive nut i.e. spanner job to remove regulator.

3-Never worked with Harriers but would imagine on later Mks that the oxygen regulator is fitted to the ejection seat to interface with the aircraft portion of the PEC as with Hawk and Tornado.

P.S The mini-man mounted system was not compatable with normal low pressure oxygen systems as it operated at 70 P.S.I. (Input to regulator)


Tashengurt -Thanks for the mention, only just found this post as I have been away

[D John]

Thanks for the info Squipper,

either of the types will do me, Mk7 male connector or the connector that fits into the top of the man mounted regulator (probably best but harder to find).

cheers,

-John:ok:

[Ancient Squipper]

Hi D John

The mask tube connector that fitted to the top of the 317A mini-man mounted regulator was unique to that system and as far as I am aware would not be compatable with anything but that regulator. The oxygen mask ('V' mask type) tube is not the usual black rubber tube but is green silicone and foam covered and is not extendable or flexible.

The Mk7/7A connector has been the standard PEC /oxygen mask connector ever since PECs came into use over 50 years ago so the Mk 7 connector you require should be very easy to source

Good luck with your quest..

[D John]

Thanks Squipper,

yes, looks like the Mk.7 connector is what I want... Stitchbitch is onto getting one for me as we speak,

cheers,

-John:ok: