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nomorecatering
17th Sep 2013, 11:44
Police slam 130km/h car magazine stunt | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/police_slam_130km_h_car_magazine_stunt)


It's a sign of the times when we see such feigned "outrage" and a supposedly dangerous stunt conducted by a motoring magazine. The stunt wasn't walking across the Grand Canyon on a tightrope, or jumping over 12 buses on a motorcycle............it was something as mundane as cruising at a leisurely 130 km/h in a brand new Volvo on Australias premiere national highway from Sydney to Melbourne.

"Victoria Police Superintendent of road policing, Neville Taylor, said: "This has been a ridiculous high-risk stunt and is most certainly not an appropriate method of doing research into road safety initiatives"..........Sorry Mr Taylor, you so have admirably demonstrated that you simply have no clue about road safety. 200 million people in Europe drive on freeways every day that have 130 km/h speed limits or higher. In Germany there are many sections of the autobahn that allows unlimited speed. In such sections, even doing 300 km/h doesn't grant you access to the fast lane. Germany has a lower road fatality rate than Australia.

Sadly, we have become a word where laws are written not to keep people safe and keep order in a society. Laws are designed to meet the aims of certain interests that may not even be relevant to the activity, to manipulate us. The Law itself is merely a discuise.

Case in point, 30 years ago it was a crime to have a rainwater tank in your backyard for your garden.......not because of disease etc, it was so you had to buy water from the local municipal water supply. Today in Sydney, a main arterial road was reduced from 3 lanes to 1, to FORCE people to use a newly constructed TOLLWAY. You are heavily fined if you use the 2 now closed lanes. Look up Lane Cove Rd.

Some sad facts.

Governments do not govern for the people. They look after ulterior motives. Artificially low speed limits cause people to speed, allowing the government to fine them. Governments are not interested in road safety or saving lives. They are only interested in revenue for the budget.

One county in Texas dropped speed limits after they discovered no one was speeding.

Police are not interested in policing, but posting key performance indicators. Catching "speeding drivers" is a high profile and easy activity that allows them to post numbers showing "how good a job we are doing". Catching crooks is evidently not on the radar.

So when you hear senior police saying that a 130km/h speed limit is ridiculously dangers idea, he is quite correct.........but only to the financial coffers of the government.

500N
17th Sep 2013, 11:49
Of all the places in Australia to do it, the Melb to Sydney road,
with the exception of one little bit (unless that bit of the freeway
has been finished) is probably the best highway and more than
capable in 90% of places to take 130kmh. Some of it is like a
race track.

Isn't the NT removing the 130kmh speed limit and going back to unlimited because the number of crashes and accidents increased when they brought
in the 130kmh ?

nomorecatering
17th Sep 2013, 11:53
NT open speed limit still off grid | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/nt_open_speed_limit_still_off_grid)

500N
17th Sep 2013, 12:02
I must admit that apart from them being a PITA to me,
the changes he has made as noted in the article are very
valid and target only certain sections of the road.

cattletruck
17th Sep 2013, 12:49
How dare they put at risk the next white elephant after the desal plant and the Melbourne Wheel. Guvmint must build a high speed rail link between Melbourne and Sydney, that will run at, after OH&S issues, cracks in the track, etc, etc. a top speed of, wait for it, 130km/h.

To infinity and beyond!

500N
17th Sep 2013, 12:52
They had better fix the existing track just past Benalla
and before Albury that has serious "bounce" problems.

Speed limit is about 30 kmh on that section :O

emeritus
17th Sep 2013, 12:59
I wonder how good the roads of Europe would be if there was only 22 million inhabitants to pay for them ?

When one takes that into consideration I feel that we have not done too bad with our road network.

Having said that, some of them are crap due lack of upkeep.

Emeritus

bosnich71
17th Sep 2013, 13:27
The council of Yarra in Melbourne has announced plans to inflict a 30Kms per hour speed limit in their 'city'.
Any lower and there will be unlimited employment opportunities for chaps with red flags.

Anthill
17th Sep 2013, 13:52
Some research from NZ showed that the main causes of road accidents were not, if fact, speeding but involved:

1) Cars that were un-roadworthy or/ and

2) Drivers affected by drugs or alcohol or who had substance abuse issues.

3) Criminals.

They also noted that unregistered cars were more likely to be in road accidents. People involved in road deaths were more likely to have substance abuse issues even if not intoxicated at the time. In a very un-PC conclusion, they were also more likely to be "poor" or unemployed (ie under financial stress).

Drivers who didn't really give a stuff about the law tended to have criminal convictions for other types of (non-road) offenses. The mentality of these people was that they don't take responsibility for their actions. They may be involved in many previous accidents but don't see themselves or their behaviour as a problem.

The conclusions reached buy these researchers were that road safety efforts would be best directed at more drug and alcohol testing and road worthiness checks. People who were having money issues tended not to maintain their cars in regards to tyres, steering and suspension defects. Or get them re-registered. Substance abuse also degrades drivers cognitive capacity. They also concluded that police efforts directed only at speeding were largely a waste of resources.

The link for the above was in The Dog and Lemon Guide.

As if driving a brand new Volvo on the Hume Fwy at 130 kmh is unsafe. What will they say next? Speed cameras aren't just a revenue raising measure?

Anthill
17th Sep 2013, 14:00
Victims of Circumstance ? how you live affects how you die | The Dog and Lemon Guide (http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/victims-circumstance)

The Seven Deadly Sins - the causes of road crashes | The Dog and Lemon Guide (http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/seven-deadly-sins)

A Comedy of Errors - why road safety ads don't work | The Dog and Lemon Guide (http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/safety/a-comedy-of-errors-road-safety-ads-dont-work)

"The highly regarded road safety researcher John Bailey once investigated hundreds of road accidents and came up with a profile of the person most likely to be involved in a fatal car accident - hes a young working class male with substance abuse problems and a close association with the criminal community. By the time he kills somebody or himself he is quite likely to have a string of prior criminal convictions. He is also likely to be driving an unsafe and illegal car at the time of accident."

Checkboard
17th Sep 2013, 14:22
The foreign journalist they chose for the "stunt" (and it is a "stunt", in the sense that one journey does not a study make) was from the UK.

In the UK the limit is 112 km/h (70 mph) - pretty much the same as in Australia.

parabellum
17th Sep 2013, 15:11
If the one car was doing 130kph and everyone else was adhering to the speed limit, more or less, then it could have been dangerous. Open up the entire freeway to 130kph (except trucks) and no trucks in the outside lane would be more realistic as a trial, over, say, five days including a weekend.

Can't compare German drivers with Australian drivers, the initial standard required in Germany is way higher with written, practical and oral tests after a recognised course of training, also a lot less 'hoon' mentality among the young Germans. The pre test driving experience in Australia is a joke, 150 hours of so called 'supervised driving' followed by a test that a drover's dog could pass.

I agree that 100 to 110kph is too slow for much of our freeways and the tendency to bring in 80kph limits far too soon is a PITA. In Victoria alone they rely on an income of around $21million a year from speeding fines alone in the budget!

Lightning Mate
17th Sep 2013, 15:24
Try driving at 70 mph in the UK on a busy motorway!

Bloody dangerous.

500N
17th Sep 2013, 16:42
bosnich
"The council of Yarra in Melbourne has announced plans to inflict a 30Kms per hour speed limit in their 'city'."

The council has to get it by the RTA / Vic Roads first, the council can't just
do it by themselves.

And even Vic Roads know that 30kmh is a bit too slow.

MX Trainer
17th Sep 2013, 18:03
I guess I should have the book thrown at me for my "Stunt" of driving from Alice to Adelaide - with only 1 quick pit stop to pick up a couple of gems about half way. Average speed - 135 Kms - topped out the V6 Holden at 185Kms and spent most of the trip at a sizzling but boring 150Kms/Hr.

I had dual fuel - propane and petrol - so could cruise pretty much all day without a fueling stop. Wifey was not happy with long days with no pit stops - not that the restrooms were to be enjoyed on that segment!! Trip was done in the cooler time - so no worries about overheating - tires etc.

The whole trip I made from entry into the NT in the north to exit I saw one Police vehicle and that was coming into Alice Springs. So the limit in NT was virtually non existent. The problem with 130Kms was being overtaken by the big - and I mean big trucks doing better than that - blow you right off the road if you are not ready for it.:rolleyes:

Now that I am older and wiser - would I do it again???

In a second - this time with something that will really get up and go!!!:ok:


Mx

500N
17th Sep 2013, 18:11
MX

Our first family holiday in Aus, 1979, Father drove Melbourne
to Brisbane border via inland NSW in 12 hours, average 110kmh
for the 1300 kms. That INCLUDED pit stops, refuels :O

Would you do it now ?

No way, the Newell Highway is just too hot with cops.

MX Trainer
17th Sep 2013, 18:43
500N

I did that trip a couple of times - had a Mitsi Magna :yuk: at the time. If you even thought about speed it would overheat!!! Finally almost toasted it coming over the Barrington Tops on a plus 45C day!! Found out it had a warped head causing the problem at higher power settings as it would allow the combustion gasses into the coolant. Car was crap but took us a lot of places.:E

The Newell had too much to see for us as it was a holiday trip rather than get from one end to the other.
Best meat pies I found in Oz were at a little shop in Coonabarabran - Dubbo Zoo was always a good place to visit - remember some pretty good times in lots of different pubs.

I was there in 2001 or so - was probably a lot more traffic and Coppers than when you went in 79.:ok:


Mx

500N
17th Sep 2013, 18:50
MX
We only did it "at speed" as we were only in Aus for a few years
and had a lot to see and in that trip to Cairns and back, only 3 weeks
in total so getting that first bit "out of the way" meant more time in
Qld !!!

I spend a fair bit of time around Jerilderie so travel the Newell.
It has improved greatly since the late 80's, of course with more
Police as well.

west lakes
17th Sep 2013, 21:00
130km/hr jeez you can legally do that in France on the Auto-Routes while towing a caravan as long as the Gross Train Weight is below 3.5T

500N
17th Sep 2013, 21:10
West lakes

I am afraid we have become a pussy society here,
a can't do this, can't do that place.

And where they have this "fixation" about the road toll
and getting it lower.

Plazbot
17th Sep 2013, 22:48
I do the drive from Dubai toAbu Dhabi daily (96km). The speed limit used to be 160km but is now 140. It is a vastly different drive now and far less white knuckle at times. The problem is not with the faster cars but the slower. You get some idiot doing 80 in the second fast lane and changing to let a faster car go by the closing speed is a real surprise. I had a quiet chuckle at the warning signs a few years ago, 'beware road surprises' and 'beware of other's mistakes'. :ugh:

The most dangerous thing about Australia's highways is fatigue due to long distances and the ever changing speed limits coupled with the absolute inability for Australian's to merge properly on the one lane roads with occasional passing lanes.

500N
17th Sep 2013, 22:53
Plaz

"The most dangerous thing about Australia's highways is fatigue due to long distances"

The most dangerous thing about Australia's highways is the INABILITY of people to pull over and stop for 2 - 10 minutes and have a break. Even two minutes, quick pee and stretch is often all that is needed.

The roads have become better in the last 10 years with places designed into the road so you can pull over if it isn't at a Petrol Station.

"ever changing speed limits" Agree, a PITA and actually
make things dangerous.

Plazbot
17th Sep 2013, 23:03
Yes, should have expanded that it is not the long road but the driver's choice to push on. I had a tiny Suzuki swift back in the day with around 800km range at 100km/hr. I did Melbourne to Brisbane straight through. Made one stop at Somewhere north of Dubbo and planned the next one at Gundi to see a mate. Walked into his lounge room and fell asleep on the couch in about 5 minutes. To keep it aviation related, I have no idea how augmenting long hall crews survive on 16 hour flights. Absurd.

500N
17th Sep 2013, 23:06
Don't they have a 3rd pilot so one can rest ?

Not sure, someone will chime in and tell us.

Plazbot
17th Sep 2013, 23:11
The way I understand it there are 4. Two for arrival and departure and two for cruise. All 4 do the preflight stuff. Probably off the mark but when I read the Melbourne tail strike incident with the Emirates 340 that is what I gathered.

Sorry for thread drift.

Worrals in the wilds
17th Sep 2013, 23:24
The council of Yarra in Melbourne has announced plans to inflict a 30Kms per hour speed limit in their 'city'. Any lower and there will be unlimited employment opportunities for chaps with red flags.

Brisbane City Council must have financed the City Hall refurb with the money collected from their new covert 40 zones in the CBD. There are about three speed signs cunningly located behind trees or beside controversial advertising billboards. :suspect:.
When even elderly cathedral parishioners are getting speeding tickets you have to question whether the limits are in line with community expectations.

Having recently driven through every major highway upgrade in Queensland :} I think the government does a lot with so many roads (often in flood zones) and a limited budget. However, there really needs to be two lanes each way dual carriageway from Brisbane to Rockhampton. It is far too busy for the current undivided two lane roadway. A single error can easily be fatal for both that driver and the unfortunate oncoming vehicle. :(

Pappa Smurf
18th Sep 2013, 00:52
Of course motorways should be a higher speed .
Multi lane with each direction separated by a barrier,plus side barriers.
As racing drivers say-its safer as everyone is going the same way.
Australias road toll is a lot of fatigue.
Others...young ones doing 160k in a 60 zone and hitting trees.
Head ons....stupid pass,fatigue,or getting slightly off road and over correcting.
Hitting trees....slight lapse and tree just off road.
Roll overs-most from fatigue or lack of concentration.
The main thing for motorways is to educate the drivers.Now in 110 zones you have anything from 80 to 120+ and a lot seem to pick their favourate lane.

500N
18th Sep 2013, 01:05
"The main thing for motorways is to educate the drivers.Now in 110 zones you have anything from 80 to 120+ and a lot seem to pick their favourate lane."


You can say that again, although going to Geelong isn't too bad.

Agree with what you say re the Trees.

Ogre
18th Sep 2013, 04:30
I love the way they always look at the speed, where you have states like South Australia where it is perfectly legal to buy a brand new car and it never see a garage service in it's life! No yearly inspection for defects or general sutability to be on the road, in fact unless you get pulled over you can drive it in any condition you like!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-23/driver-charged-over-car-with-no-steering-wheel/4837680 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-23/driver-charged-over-car-with-no-steering-wheel/4837680)

There does seem to be a bit of a conundrum though, the drivers in town who can't keep it below 80 kmh are the same ones who can't quite bring themselves to get up to 110 kmh on the stretches of road where it is permissable!

reynoldsno1
18th Sep 2013, 04:59
I believe Montana got rid of speed limits on some of its state highways. When I lived in Michigan, there was no vehicle roadworthiness inspection of any kind - some of the motorised junk had to be seen to be believed...:uhoh:

bosnich71
18th Sep 2013, 09:34
500 ..... "going to Geelong".
A 3 lane road ... in each direction of course ... try getting the wife to drive you down it and then count the number of skid marks on this 3 lane,100 KPH. straight highway especially in the direction of Geelong.
The relatively high number would suggest a heap of drivers driving too close to the bloke in front, the cause of lots of Liberace's, I.M.O.

I16
18th Sep 2013, 09:42
To complete a journey of 800km in 6 hours = average of 130kph.
They said they slowed where known speed and elapsed time cameras were as well as observed speed limits in towns etc.
My estimation that they would have had to travel at speeds appoaching 240 kph to complete the journey in six hours - total tools

500N
18th Sep 2013, 11:31
bosnich

I think most of those tyre marks would be from the morning peak
where all of a sudden the traffic stops.

One of the reasons I tend to travel on that road on the inside or outside lanes,
you always have an "out route" if needed.

cattletruck
18th Sep 2013, 13:35
topped out the V6 Holden at 185KmsMust have been a dud. I'd ask for my money back :E

The council has to get it by the RTA / Vic Roads first, the council can't just do it by themselves. Our local council made one end of our street left-turn-exit only and left-turn-entry only. When I protested to the RTA / Vic Roads they said they had no power to do anything about it as the road was not a major road and therefore not under their jurisdiction. I think you will find local councils can do what they like on the roads they manage.

doubleu-anker
18th Sep 2013, 13:45
Anthill

FFS! That's rich coming from NZ!

They forgot one other (main) cause of accidents.

- Retards dreaming up the famous left hand turn rule. So stupid, even they dropped it in favor of the long and tested right hand rule.

If it ain't broke don't fix it!!

bosnich71
19th Sep 2013, 08:57
500 .. "peak hour etc." may be peak hour, or whatever, it is still a straight road with, on the Werribee to Geelong section anyway, next to no traffic coming on or off but still heaps of skid marks and many of them from trucks... but don't blame truckies after all they are "professional" drivers after all.

pvmw
19th Sep 2013, 12:15
but still heaps of skid marks ............

wildlife running into road perhaps, especially in thedark.

Oceanz
19th Sep 2013, 13:18
Sydney-Melbourne 130kmh is OK, but not Sydney-Brisbane ... a stretch of the Pacific Highway not too far from here, about mid-point from both cities, i.e. ~5 hrs, just when fatigue starts to set in for people only used to city driving. A few fatacs in this area each year.
http://www.oceanz.com/mid-pacific.jpg

bosnich71
19th Sep 2013, 13:44
Pvmw .... "wild life".
Up until 6 months ago I used to travel from Geelong to Melbourne fairly late at night and never saw any wild life on the road. Have never seen any crossing the road in daylight either. There's also no sign of dead Roos or Wombats either unlike on the back roads which run to the North side of the main highway. At one time I used to take a bunch of bike riders out training , in the dark,on those roads, me driving a car behind them, and often had a mob of Kangeroos running along on the grass verge . I would see them in the cars headlights but the riders would be unaware of them.
I still reckon the average Aussie driver drives too close to the bloke in front and , unlike France Germany etc. the majority of truckies drive at the same speed as the general motoring public.

MX Trainer
19th Sep 2013, 14:56
Cattletruck

Quote:
topped out the V6 Holden at 185Kms
Must have been a dud. I'd ask for my money back http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif



The 12' caravan attached to my butt might have been the limiting factor!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

And when I left the country I got most of my money back on the sale -so it worked out OK.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

FYI - I had a commercial "Class 1" truck license here in Canada so well versed in high speed travel with the flop house on the back. Canada like Australia has some similar issues with un-educated, redneck drivers as well as the long distance fatigue problems. We don't regulate the truckies as closely as Down Under but there are some definite rules about how long you get to drive in a day etc. We have our fair share of crashes due to the same types of driving conditions.White-out in snow is no different than brown-out in a sand storm other than I don't have to dump the snow out of my shorts when I stop for a break!!:*

About the only thing I haven't driven is the huge road trains - I have a lot of respect for those that do knowing just how difficult it is to drive a normal rig. When I started out driving about 45 years ago the defensive driving courses had just started here in Canada - I took the first one when getting my motorcycle license - gave a discount on insurance - and the guy that taught it was adamant that you have to drive for everyone else - that no one gave a Rats' A$$ about whether they hit you or not - simply because you were on a bike. Lots of really good tips and actual driving techniques on that course as well as the second one I did for my automobile license. I think that my first year of bike driving with the concept of "Everyone is out to kill me" coupled with some very good instructors on the job and a couple of race car / skid pan courses made me a better driver than the average lot who are for the most part to Effen lazy to actually learn how to drive rather than just herd it down the road. Driving is a privilege not a right - you get the privelige through training and proving by experience that you can drive safely.

It's good to know that there are some like minds out there!!


Know your limits and "Drive Safe" everyone!!

Mx

500N
19th Sep 2013, 15:03
Oceanz

Yep, and to think that the No 1 highway in Aus was like that
between Melb and Sydney from the NSW border until only
a few years ago !!! while the Melb to Albury is a decent highway.

I sometimes wonder why these major roads takes so long
to get sorted.


Animal life on Melb - Geelong - not much at all, not like other roads.

Worrals in the wilds
19th Sep 2013, 15:22
MX, question for ya (and anyone else with a van)...
Is it practicable to drive at 100kmph towing a caravan? So many people creep along at 80 or slower.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 15:25
Worrals

On good roads, I can't see why not.

As I see it, the problem is those who drive with Vans don't do it often
enough so they are not confident. And of course you sometimes have
the usual where it is not set up so sways like a drunk !!!

It's also a catch 22.
By doing 80 this speed lets you pass.
If they do 100 it is harder to pass.

cattletruck
19th Sep 2013, 15:47
You could easily tow a caravan much faster than that, the problem is the person who overtakes you decides they want to slow down immediately without any consideration that you might jack-knife when braking hard and end up a road wreck.....while they continue driving away (just like that pr!ck in a cement truck who took out my neighbours gate and 20% of our brick fence this afternoon :mad:. I bet his company is repainting the damage on the cement truck as we speak.)
http://arthurguru.users.sourceforge.net/extra/fence.jpg

MX Trainer
19th Sep 2013, 15:56
Worrals


MX, question for ya (and anyone else with a van)...
Is it practicable to drive at 100kmph towing a caravan? So many people creep along at 80 or slower.

Yes it is - but only if you have the experience and the proper setup on the tow/van.

Just like a big rig - loading of the van is important and the transfer of the load to the vehicle as well. The guy thought I was nuts when I ordered an extra heavy duty hitch - like what you would put on a 1 tonner - installed on the Holden. Complete with adjustable sway bar and leveling bars. He muttered something about "Overkill":rolleyes:

Then you have to road test - most folks just load the crap into the tow vehicle and van and just go - wondering all the while how come it handles like a POS.:*

You have to trim for speed and road conditions - watch out for drinking water in tanks and holding tanks - In hot places I always traveled with full drinking water tanks for the obvious reason - but almost never travel with anything in the holding tanks if possible. Once you have the weight/ balance worked out - have a very good connection to the tow rig - the van will track like a freight train on rails. :cool:

It takes experience to drive at speed safely - most who do this only once a year are very dangerous as they don't have the experience. Often they are a bit better at the end of the trip but most are too lazy to set things up correctly in the first place.

You obviously can't do the same speeds in windy conditions and you have to be very aware of the wind front pushed by other vehicles.:E

If I have a correctly loaded rig I have no problems with maintaining 100Ks/hr under almost all conditions. The trip from Alice to Adelaide was on a warm day - not stinking hot - there was no wind the whole trip - and almost no traffic on the road. Tires in excellent condition at the correct pressure etc. In short it was under ideal conditions and I made the best of it. It was far less stress than driving in traffic on some of the 2 lane roads without many pullouts for passing.

Hope this helps - lots of good information on doing it right on the RV forums.:ok:

Mx - Speedy but safe!!

500N
19th Sep 2013, 16:00
MX

20 - 30 years ago, the number of caravans etc on the roads that were not
set up properly was amazing.

The good thing is I think there is more information about now about set up.


I have a trailer than I used to load up, boat on top etc and it used
to travel like a dream. Never swayed once.

OFSO
19th Sep 2013, 16:14
you can legally do that in France on the Auto-Routes

But only 90kph on all other roads in France, which is why the roads of N. Spain are crowded with French-registered dawdlers all driving at well under this speed, under the illusion that they are still in France. Or just under an illusion. Any illusion.

Question for the Australians - how much are 'roos a problem when driving at night ? I came back across the Pyranees last night and kept my speed well down because of the risk of hitting a wild boar or *similar*.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 16:18
OFSO

It depends on where you are driving and the conditions.

ie. if the area has been dry for a while and then you get a light rain,
the run off from the roads collects in the low spots either side so you
end up with a lot of "green pick" or green grass which of course
attracts the roos. A dangerous situation all around on country roads.

But in general where roos exist they are a real PITA as they are
hard to see - the earthy / grey colour does not show up well at all
in headlights and they often do "bounce" across the road at the last
minute.

Sometimes they even run into the SIDE of the car :O

If you hit one, they are very solid animals so not good all round.

dubbleyew eight
19th Sep 2013, 16:21
roos are not the problem that many think. in 14 crossings of the nullabor I saw roos twice.
usually you only see them if there have been rains recently and there are lots of green shoots for the buggers to feed on.

G-CPTN
19th Sep 2013, 16:25
I started towing (caravans) when I was still a youth and it was important to get the nose-weight 'right'.
One concern about high-speed towing would be being passed or passing a high-sided vehicle such as an articulated truck with a box trailer which could 'destabilize' the caravan and cause it to snake.

When I was testing car towbars I used a loaded medium-sized commercial trailer and drove 'spiritedly' wherever possible without problem, but several of my drivers reported that one combination was unstable on the over-run. I set off to check this out and was 'charging' down the motorway slip road to join the traffic and had to lift off to slot into a gap when the fun began.
I ended up at 90 degrees to the carriageway with the nose against the central barrier after several 'manoeuvres' trying to correct the snake. A following truckie saw my plight and held the traffic back using his hazard flashers and I avoided hitting anything or being hit by other vehicles, but I had to concede that the combination was, indeed, 'dangerous' under certain circumstances (my drivers were all professional test drivers with extensive experience of all types of vehicles). As I stated, I had driven this vehicle many miles - and not gently - the purpose of the testing was to expose the vehicle to whatever the customer might inflict.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 16:26
I forgot to add.

New South Wales has to be the worst state to drive for roos followed by Queensland then Victoria although Victoria is pretty bad in the west
and north west.

When their are lots of them, you know they are there.

It's when you have seen none and then one jumps out or
you get a patch of them.

And then of course sometimes you get so many you might as
well stop driving !!!

I try to avoid driving at night in NSW if I can.

cattletruck
19th Sep 2013, 16:31
Was told roos only travel at dawn and dusk (unless frightened). Only once on a dirt road in northern NSW did I have to slam on the anchors as a travelling school of roos (20 or so) suddenly popped out of the scrub land and disappeared on the other side.

It was quite a pleasant site actually, the roos were blissfully disinterested in me as I came to a complete stop and waited a minute just to be sure they all went past.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 16:39
Probably more movement at dawn and dusk, dusk being the worst IMHO
when they first come out.

They are out most of the night but of course once they start feeding
in a paddock, they tend to just feed.

Daytime - they can be bad if out but more often than not
they are just lying up sleeping.

Worrals in the wilds
19th Sep 2013, 16:41
Thanks all. I don't have a caravan but notice a lot of them being towed very slowly. They're easy enough to pass in a car, but I don't envy the truck drivers who get stuck behind them 20kmph (or more) below the speed limit.

As for roos, IME certain roads are bad for them. One example is the highway west of Quilpie, where you can easily pass thirty of them if you're driving it at night. There's a river beside the road and they cross it to drink, which I think is often the cause of roo problems on roads.

I don't find them a big problem on the major highways; I've been told that the truck noise scares them off, though I don't know if that's true. Remote highways and minor rural roads are a different story. Nor do I know if they're actually worse at night; I do a bit of rural/remote night driving and I think it's more that they're difficult to see.

Dark cattle scare me more. I've had a couple of close calls with them, and they're a big animal to hit. :eek:
P.S. Bugger about your fence, Cattletruck.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 16:47
" Dark cattle scare me more. I've had a couple of close calls with them, and they're a big animal to hit. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif"

Agree.

I spent a couple of days pulling a broken fan and radiator out
of a Landcruiser that had front ended a Buffalo dead centre !!!

On a drive from Adelaide to Darwin, we passed between two
horses that were on the road, one standing on the Right, one on
the left. Thank god they just stood there as we went through
the small gap !!!

We hit a cow in that same car, a Volvo a bit later on in NSW.
It was interesting times !!!

MX Trainer
19th Sep 2013, 19:34
Quick question for you all out there.

Am I alone in the process of driving the multi-lanes where I set my speed to be just above what the trucks are doing? - (Not with the van). Trucks here travel at same speed usually as the cars - though they do have the limiters on them so are restricted to the lower speeds on the 110Km/hr roadways.

That way way I am slowly overtaking them - usually only a couple of klicks above the speed limit and don't have the worry of them coming up from behind and dealing with the wind push. I would rather pass them and push through their wind push than have them pass me and try and blow me off the road. All I have to be aware of is the speedier ones coming up from behind then. One of the tricks I was taught way back when and it has served me pretty well since.

Just wondering if others do similar.

Cattletruck - at least the damage is confined to property!!
There was a time when I considered truckies to be pretty professional but sadly not so much any more since they give out licenses in beer cases now!! Sorry for your loss of bricks and fencing - back in the day we had a serious charge in Canada of "Driving without due care and attention." It carried a pretty stiff fine and sometimes a loss of license for a while or even forever. Sadly it has gone away only to be replaced with other statutes without any teeth to them. Hope it did some serious damage to the cement truck!!!


Re: - Brains etc. splattered. I know that it is not PC to show the results of accidents but I do appreciate that it is a very good way to get the message across. My motorbike trainer had a set of slide photos he used that would gag a paramedic. The one that stayed with me was the wishbone!! Guy was passing a parked car when the door opened and the door edge went between his knee and the bike. Opened him up like a broken wishbone hence the name. I never ride on the inside of the lane because of that image.
BTW - he said the guy lived but was a total veggie after.

Maybe some accidents might not happen if we were a bit less PC????

Mx

TWT
19th Sep 2013, 20:41
Truck drivers in Oz aren't getting any better.Yesterday,I saw one jammed under a railway bridge.The height clearance signs (3.7m) well before and on the actual bridge are HUGE.And this guy still had no idea how high his rig was.Happens a lot here in Melbourne.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 20:44
And it is always that Spencer St bridge !!!

I am surprised they haven't dug the road out
but they probably have a reason.

TWT
19th Sep 2013, 20:46
Not always 500N.This was on Racecourse Rd. (next to Eastwood St.).Streetview pic:

http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o730/ratsclacker/Railwaybridge_zps6f2c45f4.jpg

Check out the damage to the bridge.Trucks run into it regularly.

But you are right,Spencer street has seen way too many B-doubles tipped on their sides under that bridge

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ancient Observer
19th Sep 2013, 20:51
There is something wrong with the title of this thread.

500N
19th Sep 2013, 20:53
I know the one on Racecourse road.

Re Spencer St, not just B Doubles either.

The Bridge in South Melbourne is also bad,
same rail line as the Spencer St Bridge.

cattletruck
20th Sep 2013, 03:09
Hope it did some serious damage to the cement truck!!!

MX Trainer, just a few minutes ago the neighbour across the road rocked up with video footage of the incident gained from his CCTV camera. :ok:Looks like a cowboy outfit will be going to the wall.

bosnich71
20th Sep 2013, 03:55
Cattle truck ....... talking of 'cowboys' I once worked for an aircraft engineering company that was bought by the owner for his son.
It seemed that the son had always wanted a cowboy outfit for Christmas and that's what he eventually got. :rolleyes:

Worrals in the wilds
20th Sep 2013, 14:01
I'd laugh but I know you're serious. :uhoh:. Aviation; the circus where the clowns and monkeys are in charge...:}

Maybe some accidents might not happen if we were a bit less PC????
The documented problem with gory ad campaigns is that the only people who take notice are generally the sensible ones who didn't need the campaign in the first place. The risk takers are very likely to rationalise by saying 'that won't happen to me, because I'm too smart/expert/lucky'. This happens whether you're campaigning against reckless driving, drug abuse, BASE jumping or whatever.

Gory campaigns are still beloved by state governments even though they've been shown to be ineffective by a number of studies, but IMO that's more about demonstrating to law abiding tax payers (i.e. the non-risk takers, who like yourself are far more likely to be affected by the images) that they are Getting Tough On Crime. The fact that it's ineffective for the target audience doesn't really come into it, but that's government for you. :zzz:

MX Trainer
20th Sep 2013, 15:48
Cattletruck - If the video shows the time - the face - and the plate on the truck you should be all set!!! Nice to have good neighbors!!:ok:

Worrals - I know you are right regarding the gory campaigns and the lack of effectiveness - I suppose the instructor was probably just trying to cement - (very well for my case) - that humans really are pretty fragile.:ugh:

It probably was effective for me, simply because I was raised in an environment that underscored that mistakes could be costly and that no matter what I thought; the universal rules of flesh and bones vs cement and steel still applied!!

I quit riding Bikes at 58 - not because of any single reason other than I suppose at some level you know your reaction time is just not what it used to be and that awakening varies with the individual. As much as I enjoyed riding, the risk / reward factor is now skewed to the non participation side. Out off all the activities, bike riding was the one that took the most skill and concentration on my part. Flying second - but probably only because I was crew rather than pilot. I had a rather good run of it as I got my first bike at 15 - so over 40 years without anything significant is sufficient for me.

At the end of the day I can only say that safety on the road or anywhere else for that matter, is a personal responsibility - and many out there take that responsibility too lightly IMHO.

Mx

500N
20th Sep 2013, 15:53
Worrals

Agree re the gory campaigns. I am one of them.

They did work at first but I don't think
the org that put them together thought about it once the initial success
had occurred, they just kept pushing the same thing. I thought they
needed to change the message more often and hit the psych spot
that would connect to the people you mentioned.

cattletruck
20th Sep 2013, 16:23
Worrals and 500N, that's how they keep justifying the high TAC fee.

Car rego paid today at $721 of which about 60% was the TAC fee.

For those who don't know, the Transport Accident Commission is a government body who look at ever increasing ways to blow their budget. Yes, they do a great thing in one area - rehabilitation insurance, but they are spiralling out of control by overservicing.

Oceanz
21st Sep 2013, 11:19
It used to be far more sobering when one passed an accident and people were being cut out of the vehicle or whatever and they didn't put up any screens to shield the scene from the vision of motorists creeping past.

Roos ... a lot up here on the highway and the road into my village. Thankfully only a tapping of one on the latter (so far). They literally explode from the bush beside the road. The B Doubles tend to take care of the ones on the highway :E

TWT
21st Sep 2013, 11:39
That's why I tuck in behind large trucks when forced to drive long distances at night in roo territory.Get a few bumps,and you do have to clean the underside of your vehicle of fur and bits because it pongs very quickly in summer :ok:

MX Trainer
21st Sep 2013, 17:16
I remember when I first arrived in Australia a trip back to Perth from Monkey Mia one night as a passenger on a tour bus. I was a couple of seats from the front and about a half hour into the trip the lady sitting in the very front seat asked me if I would change seats with her. Said the roos being bunted off the front bumper into the scrub bothered her.:yuk:

So I did - lost count or interest after about 30 such impacts and quadruple flips by the instantly killed roo. Bus driver said "Just a normal night"!! He didn't even slow down or attempt evasive action - would have worn him out to do so - set the cruise - keep it between the lines - and don't sweat the small things!!:ok:

For a while the guy beside me and self were rating the roo performance - out of 10 with equal points for size, entrance to event, number of visible flips, and exit stage left!!!:D

Didn't take me long to figure out what a menace roos were for driving at night.:eek:

Mx

G-CPTN
21st Sep 2013, 17:34
So a sturdy roo-bar isn't just to reduce damage to your vehicle, but to allow the driver to continue unabated.

500N
21st Sep 2013, 17:49
"That's why I tuck in behind large trucks when forced to drive long distances at night in roo territory."

Agree.

Either right behind it or long way back.


G-CPTN
Both. After all, who wants to be stuck 100's of kms from places nowadays ?
Although not many places in the "bush" are as remote as they used to be.

TWT
21st Sep 2013, 23:51
500N,

Not usually well back from the truck.I worry that leaving too much of a gap is an invitation for latecomers to hop across in front of me ;)

I did hit one once,just 10km outside Barcaldine,QLD during a roo plague.Resulted in a 2,000km journey on 2 tilt tray trucks as I had to make stops in Townsville (job at Dairy Farmers Stadium) and Brisbane (to have the radiator replaced).The 2 Townsville towies were,shall I say,somewhat 'rough around the edges' :eek:.The Barcaldine towie who took me to Townsville was a brilliant bloke,typical big strapping country boy with a big smile on his face who spoke of how much he missed his his wife and kids when he was away.

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

G-CPTN
22nd Sep 2013, 00:04
Many drivers in the UK will have 'recovery' for their vehicle which will return them and their vehicle to their home, but the distances in Oz are so much greater.

What happens?

Edited to add:- http://rac.com.au/Motoring/Roadside-Assistance/Roadside-Assistance-Comparison-Table.aspx

TWT
22nd Sep 2013, 00:11
Your trip will be delayed by days,and possibly several weeks if you are in a remote area.In and around the cities,same as in the UK.

The problem is finding a tow company willing to do the job for a fair price.There's always the guy who will do it for 5 times the going rate,but he is usually rejected so you have to make a few more calls and the guy who is reasonable might not be able to pick you up for a few days.It might be a 3,000km round trip.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

500N
22nd Sep 2013, 00:20
TWT

Barcaldine is a flower within the Qld outback. Not sure why but everyone
I have even met or talked to from there has always been a bit above the
rest in terms of thinking, speaking.

Even a Pro roo shooter I spoke to, you think it would be a thumb up bum,
mind in neutral person, nope, knew exactly what he was doing, could
articulate a discussion etc.

Worrals in the wilds
22nd Sep 2013, 04:21
Yeah, Barcy's nice. :ok:
Many drivers in the UK will have 'recovery' for their vehicle which will return them and their vehicle to their home, but the distances in Oz are so much greater.

What happens?What TWT said. :sad: Fortunately I've never had to deal with it, but it's something you dread.

Even top rate motoring club memberships only cover free towing for 200km to the club affiliated mechanic's premises. After that I assume you have to negotiate a price with the aforesaid contractor. Towies in the city have been running club-related towing rackets for years (the bill goes to the club and they don't always check it, so if you're not careful your car will get taken on a scenic tour :hmm:) and I guess it's no different in many outback places.

What the clubs do guarantee top rate members is roadside assistance Australia wide (on any public road no matter how remote) so at least that gets the guy to your car. Naturally that doesn't help you if you're not on a public road, say in a national park or on a 4WD trail, and 200km of free towing doesn't get you all that far.

Ovation
22nd Sep 2013, 06:21
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff123/OvationGX2/2013-01-27094751_zpsc3798747.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/OvationGX2/media/2013-01-27094751_zpsc3798747.jpg.html)

This is my impression of a wild pig between Hay and Maude (Outback NSW).

dubbleyew eight
22nd Sep 2013, 06:30
on any trip across the nullabor you will usually find 3 or 4 vehicles that have been abandoned because they can't be economically recovered.
a nightmare for the people involved.

Worrals in the wilds
22nd Sep 2013, 06:35
True, W8; nightmare is the word. It's the same on Cape York. :{
This is my impression of a wild pig between Hay and Maude (Outback NSW). Nice work :uhoh: (btw you may want to obscure your rego plates in that pic :suspect:...). I saw one dead in the middle of the road in FNQld recently that was the size of a big man :eek:. I literally slowed down thinking 'OMG someone's been hit by car and left there,' but when I got closer the tusks gave it away. Glad it wasn't me who hit it; it was at least 190cm long and big to match. :eek:

500N
22nd Sep 2013, 06:48
Ovation

I've shot a fair few pigs, that one is one of the bigger one's
going by height alone.

They are certainly solid beasts.

Ovation
22nd Sep 2013, 08:03
btw you may want to obscure your rego plates in that pic ...

It's not my wheels - it's the local community bus and was only a few weeks old when that happened. We hit another pig only moments before this one that did some damage on the other side. We stopped after the second one and looked for a carcase, but there was nothing to be found. It survived the impact but might have gone a couple of hundred metres before carking it.

500N
22nd Sep 2013, 08:10
Pigs are very very tough indeed and will not only leave the scene
but also survive unless a vital organ is damaged.
You could break or rip a leg off and they would likely survive.

Worrals in the wilds
22nd Sep 2013, 08:58
It's not my wheels - it's the local community bus and was only a few weeks old when that happened.
Jeez, glad everyone was okay then :eek:. The driver must have kept a cool head. I know of one pig that was run over three times by a Toyota Hilux before it finally gave up. There wasn't much left of the Hilux either :ouch:, and I'm not suggesting that's the world's best pig management technique, but the driver was on his own and panicked. Mongrel animals!

Hydromet
22nd Sep 2013, 10:01
Ovation, hope you didn't get stranded! Pommy bloke who worked with us for a while was stranded by floods - sent a telegram (remember them) saying "Stuck in Maude, please wire instructions."

500N
22nd Sep 2013, 10:12
God almighty, of all the places to be stuck, Maude :O

Talk about a one pub town and not much else :O
with Black soil all around that stopped you
driving anywhere but main roads.


Running over a pig or any animal is bad for a car.
Better to hope for a hit and bounce off, might be
more damage to the panels etc but damage underneath
is deadly.

bosnich71
25th Sep 2013, 06:05
500N ... "rip a leg and they would likely survive'.
Reminds me of the joke about the 3 legged pig.

500N
25th Sep 2013, 08:00
Do tell the joke.


Plenty of 3 legged pigs running around Aus.

Worrals in the wilds
25th Sep 2013, 08:51
"Stuck in Maude, please wire instructions." Presumably the response was 'wait.' These days you could add 'you poor bugger' but telegrams were pretty pricey. :E

Of course as we all know, this is not as silly as it sounds. Every flood season there are a whole bunch of knuckleheads who think that either 1. They're the spiratual descendent of Moses and the water will part before them or 2. Their 2.5 tonne vehicle will float to the other side so they can continue their journey :hmm:. The lucky ones just have to deal with grumpy coppers and insurer; the unlucky ones don't make it :(.

+1 for the joke.

7x7
25th Sep 2013, 12:15
500N, the pig, obviously a great favourite of the farmer and his family, has done everything for the farmer and his family except find the cure for the common cold. But as the farmer lists the pig's incredible deeds and unbelievable achievements, he never explains to the visitor from the city how the pig came to lose one leg. The farmer replies: "You don't eat a pig as good as that all at once."

bosnich71
26th Sep 2013, 01:28
500N ....ref. the pig with 3 legs,7X7 has given the shortened version but as I've an hour or so to spare I'll type out ,( 1 fingered), the longer version.

A stock agent was out in the GABBA visiting various properties and ended up spending the night at one such.
After dinner he's sitting on the back veranda with the Cockie having a couple of tinnies, when a 3 legged pig walks past.
"Jeez", he exclaims," look at that pig, he's only got 3 legs".
"Oh that's Charlie, our pet pig he's like one of the family.
Only a couple of months back I was out in the back paddock and fell off me dirt bike, broke me leg and was in a right state. Temperature in the 40's and I was in a bit of strife, when along came Charlie. I called him over, wrote a note to the missus, tied it to Charlie's tail and sent him off back to the homestead. The Missus and the lads came out, led by Charlie, found me and saved me life. That Charlie he's like one of the family.
Then there was the time little Jimmy fell in the dam and Charlie dived in after him,grabbed him by his shirt collar and towed him to safety. that Charlie he's just like one of the family.
When we had the bush fires and the kids were caught out and in danger of getting killed Charlie appeared and led them to safety. He's like one of the family that Charlie".
"Yes", said the agent but why has he only got 3 legs"?

"Well",said the Cockie," we couldn't eat him all for Christmas could we"?


You can pad it out for as long as you like depending which pub you're in and how pizzed you are.

Then there were the two old Cockies in Tasmania,leaning on a fence and discussing affairs as they do.
The one says to the other," I think that I'll go away for a holiday".
"Oh yes, where", to asks his mate.
"Gold Coast I reckon, I've never been there before".
"That'll be nice ", replies his mate, " and what route are you going to take"?

"I think I'll take the Missus, after all she stood by me when the house burned down in the bushfires ten years back".

nomorecatering
26th Sep 2013, 08:25
Did someone mention caravans.........oh so 70's

Now the Yanks know how to travel in style.

Newell Coach - Take the good life with you (http://www.newellcoach.com/)

But with a coach you need to tow a car.....no problem, take 2 cars with your own stacker car trailer.

ATC Trailers - Signature Car Hauler (http://www.aluminumtrailer.com/productdetails/StackerCarHaulers/50)

And they have nice RV parks to stay at.

Motorcoach Country Club Resort Video - YouTube