Cranwell

[Molemot]

Found this gem.....

THE SKY IS OURS - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-sky-is-ours)

Enjoy!

[TomJoad]

Excellent, and even a regional accent, if somewhat refined
Thanks for posting that really enjoyed it.:ok:

[Chugalug2]

Yes, thanks Molemot. Obviously a great many changes in the 4 years that separated this film from my time there, yet some of it familiar. Notice they didn't show the Flight Cadets Instructional Workshops. Still got the table lamp that I made there.
Chip Butties, biscuits in the South Brick Lines, and is there honey still for tea?

[Willard Whyte]

Interesting to note that Mr Cholmondley Warner was indeed real, learning about thermodynamics no less, @ 03:36.

Top haircuts, even if it does make them look like a bunch of paedophiles.

I trust the chap @ ~7:28 got the chop. Talking with food in his mouth, what an absolute bounder.

[54Phan]

Yes, thank you for posting that. Interesting to see spinnerless Chipmunks and the Swifts, and the Anson et al. Very enjoyable viewing.

[BEagle]

Great! Nice to see the old place when it was being used properly! No signs of anyone playing pongoes in cabbage kit, no 'mission statements', no hi-viz waistcoats....

Some interesting period shots of 56(F) in the troubled days of the Swift - and so may different aircraft types - Chipmunk, Anson, Balliol, Swift, Hunter, Meteor, Vampire - probably others too. All RAF owned and operated, no contractorised nonsense....

'D' wing had still to be built, I see. Not much had changed at the SBLs some 13 years later, but at least we didn't have to make up bed packs!

That low flying looked very low indeed. But wasn't 50 ft a.g.l. the limit in LFAs back then?

[T-21]

Excellent film . I lived at RAF Cranwell AMQ 1966/7 many happy hours spent gliding on the North airfield . The shot of all the parked Chipmunks is where the present Aircrew Selection building stands. The hangar used for the raft exercises was full of Chipmunks in 1967. The hangar near to the Italian restaurant(was the Post Office then) was the Glider flight and the Flying Club with Tiger Moths and Austers.

[Evalu8ter]

Beags, the limit is still 50ft in the LFS for RW, with 10ft for CADs (Concealed Approach and Departure) - speed commensurate with height of course...:E

The film is an astonishing flashback to an era when the RAF didn't buy in SQEP it trained them from first principles. A vocation rather than occupation indeed.

[CoffmanStarter]

Marvellous film !

Sadly, of the Chipmunks I could positively identify WK556 (Scrapped by 27 MU) and WP868 (Spun In Bibury Oxon Oct 1958) didn't make it to the 21st Century :(

[Rosevidney1]

The Chipmunks had yet to get their anti-spin strakes. Never saw the type with a bare prop.

[CoffmanStarter]

Rosevidney1 ... During the Summer of 1949 the Chipmunk experienced a number of issues with cracked spinners and backplates while the initial production batch was being constructed for the RAF. In fact spinner problems plagued the RAF Chipmunk until late 1950 when it was removed permanently (but retained the backplate) until a completely revised spinner was then fitted (which required a slight additional mod to the cowling).

Mod H231 in Aug 1958 saw the fitting of the spinning strakes.

Cheers ...

Coff.

[Roadster280]

I quite enjoyed that, my parents live just a few minutes from Cranwell in Ruskington.

When the young lad goes solo, he's above the clouds on his first trip. Surely not? Also seemed like he got to his first squadron, strapped in a jet and off he went. A bit of artistic license?

The narrator says it took nine men on the ground to support one pilot. What's the ratio these days?

On the uniforms, they had officer cap badges in their twa* hats on top of their bed blocks, but ORs' eagles on their shoulders. What's that all about?

As for cabbage kit, the Army didn't get camouflage until 1968, so it's not surprising they were in blue battledress in 1955. Still, I suppose they stuck out a bit in blue kit when they were digging trenches and all that fun stuff in the first few weeks.

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Wonderful student mates, cadets and stunning grad power.

Self important staff.

Crappy institution.

Ostentatious Imperial architecture.

...and that bloody rotating light to welcome you back....

Mam said if you can't say anything nice, don't say it.

I think that's about it..

wets

[Failed_Scopie]

The self-important staff bit holds true - some of the Flight Commanders were truly appalling and their conduct was atrocious too. I remember one individual being ejected from a Dining-In Night by the Gp Capt (DIOT) for drunkenness, only to re-appear next day as if nothing had happened. At RMAS, he would have had an interview without coffee with the Commandant the following morning and have been immediately posted to see out his military career in somewhere like the Outer Hebrides or the Falkland Islands (I've been to both and so feel able to comment... )

[Haraka]

Ah well F-S, that's what can happen when an elite training institution goes comprehensive.
That is not to say that alcoholic outbursts weren't totally unknown in the DS in earlier years . Some of a certain vintage might remember a GD Squadron Leader interrupting a Wednesday morning parade with loud music emanating from the windows of his room in the College overlooking the Orange.
The quick dispatch upstairs of a Rock Flight Sergeant from King Rock on the square generated a brief interchange of opinions at the door to said officer's room, this in short order resulting in the miscreant being summarily knocked out cold. All was of course heard by those gathered below.
This prompt palliative action was memorably followed by the remark:
" Do carry on, gentlemen" as the windows were closed.

Anybody remember "High Flight" ?

One of our Flight Commanders on "A" ( Sov's at the time :) ) confessed to actually being in it. Closer interrogation uncovered that his was one of the pairs of Cadet boots filmed marching up and down in the scene of the initial phase of training.

[Wander00]

"High Flight" - made a big impression on me as a young teenager and confirmed my wish to get a place at Cranwell. (Naive young man that I was, but I did enjoy my 3 years there)

[Union Jack]

The quick dispatch upstairs of a Rock Flight Sergeant from King Rock on the square generated a brief interchange of opinions at the door to said officer's room, this in short order resulting in the miscreant being summarily knocked out cold. All was of course heard by those gathered below.

Is one therefore to assume that this means that the inability of a senior NCO to bring about a satisfactory solution without resorting to violence towards a senior officer, and by implication without disciplinary action, is considered acceptable behaviour in the Royal Air Force, either then or now?

Jack

[MPN11]

Has anyone found a documentary of OCTU Feltwell?


Sorry … my taxi seems to have turned up ... ;)

[Haraka]

Is one therefore to assume that this means that the inability of a senior NCO to bring about a satisfactory solution without resorting to violence towards a senior officer, and by implication without disciplinary action, is considered acceptable behaviour in the Royal Air Force, either then or now?

Jack

No, but at the time it seemed very appropriate and did the trick.

[Union Jack]

No, but at the time it seemed very appropriate and did the trick.

Good answer, although the "squabbling bleeder" might have disagreed!:ok:

Jack

[Haraka]

As he was totally "out of his tree" (and not for the first time by any means) I doubt if he recalled much.
Unusual situations sometimes call for unusual solutions.
It was a long time ago and hopefully the situation would not be allowed to deteriorate to such a sad state today.

[BEagle]

Whenever was this, Haraka?

Non-student officers surely didn't live in College Hall until 1973/4. I don't recall Wing Drill ever having been interrupted by such an event?

Wouldn't unplugging the music system have been a less problematic solution?

Nevertheless, the chap does sound to have been rather an oddball. Despite which, assault by an NCO should have resulted in the latter being court-martialled.... No question.

[SOSL]

What BEagle said!

Rgds SOS

[Haraka]

Beags and SOSL . See your PM's for further details.

[SOSL]

Now you come to mention it, I remember him well. He did indeed occupy a room in College Hall.

I was on a different Sqn.

Rgds SOS

[T-21]

When the cadets were gliding the evening meal at weekends was at some early hour about 16.30 hours. Instead a Land-Rover was despatched to the rear of the dining hall and two large urn's one tea the other coffee arrived accompanied by loaves of bread,butter and jam,peanut butter and Marmite. That was all the food these guy's got but it kept us going. The cadets would often retire to the Hare & Hounds at Fulbeck. With my parents blessing I used to sit in the beer garden and given lemonade and crips as I was only fourteen at the time . You were not allowed in pubs in those day's and they closed at 22.30 hrs on a Sunday. I have very happy memories of Cranwell it was a great station for flying.

[SOSL]

But it would have proper bread, wouldn't it?

Rgds SOS

[Haraka]

Remember those big chain driven rotary toasters SOS ?
We packed away the calories (and burnt them off)!
Only problem was the coffee in those silly little demi-tasses .
The average cadet lost weight initially, then put it back on in different places as time went by.
Latterly , once out of the Towers, weight again tended to be redistributed as the acquired appetite tended not to diminish , whilst daily exercise tended to decrease.
Then of course , many of us started smoking.........:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Haraka, thanks for the PM. I always thought that the chap to whom you referred was distinctly odd. Didn't he once tie an 'A' sqn :yuk: flag to the very top of the college after some competition or other?

Sad that he left the Service in such a way though......:(

Those chain driven toasters can still be found at Premier Inns - but it takes 3 consecutive runs to toast a crumpet properly!

Hare & Hounds at Fulbeck was a very nice little pub. But the Houblon at Oasby seemed to be the pub of choice in latter days....

Although there was also the Stable Bar at The George in Leadenham.....:E

[SOSL]

You're right about our diet and exercise regime.

But as for smoking, I only did it for bravado, until my second tour. First tour was only 8 months (holding sort of).

Second tour was Salalah - I'd never heard of it but there was an entry in SROs calling for a junior eng off to volunteer for a tour there; so that's where I went.

Every month, out there, the Customs Officers from Heathrow used to send us a bag full of all the tobacco and cigarettes they had confiscated that month. It was then distributed to all the RAF boys (no girls in those days).

That's when I really started to smoke

Rgds SOS

[SOSL]

Agree with BEags about the Houblon!!

Rgds SOS

[Molemot]

THE ROYAL AIRFORCE COLLEGE CRANWELL - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-royal-airforce-college-cranwell-1)

[chopd95]

Did they walk on The Carpet?

[Chugalug2]

Why didn't we bypass Sicily, Sir, as the Americans bypassed certain Pacific Islands, and concentrate instead on Italy?
A question that I will take to my grave, repeated over and over as it was from Take 1 to Take n+1 throughout an interminable afternoon in War Studies. They must have used the latter in sheer desperation as we are all looking dazed, not just me.
I should also be in the first scene on the bus, but am not. I recall some acid comments from the Director about "hamming it up", so I can only suppose this to be another busload on another day. Pure professional jealousy, of course!
Thank you Molemot. I never did see the final production. For some strange reason it makes me feel very very old. Can't think why...

[SOSL]

Thanks for both videos Molemot, brought back some great memories.

In the second video (when JPs were in service) I noticed at minute 16.07, an Air Cdre, presumably Ascom Cadets, sitting at a dining in night in College Hall with a dish of the dreaded Brown Windsor Soup in front of him.

We pretended to enjoy the soup, but the dining in nights were great fun.

Rgds SOS

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

What a good film. I was at Cranwell at the time but only as a patch kid. My Dad was the Flt Sgt IC Servicing at Barkston heath.

Aaron

[Chugalug2]

SOSL:_
I noticed at minute 16.07, an Air Cdre,
Indeed SOSL, that was the College Commandant, Air Commodore (later Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir..) Dennis Spotswood GCB, CBE, DSO, DFC.
The Assistant Commandant was Group Captain (later Air Chief Marshal Sir..) Lewis Hodges KCB, CBE, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar, DL (he was later Deputy Lieutenant of Kent). He also played a mean set of drums!

[Madbob]

As one who did OCTU at Henlow I never had the dubious delights of CHOM and the "old-school tie" nostalgia of that those that did gain their commissions at Cranwell.

No sour grapes on my part but I am curious to know what the selection process was to determine who went to Henlow or Cranwell, as back in the 1970's we still had a big enough air force to justify having two officer training establishments and as a GD/P entrant, a choice of 3 BFTS's to be posted to subsequently!

Was it anything to do with how one did at OASC or how good your potential OQ's were, or just a random draw? As a subsequent grad of 1FTS at Linton I must say I did feel a little jealous of those that did all their JP time in the Mk5. The poor old JP3 was a bit primitive in comparison.......

Beagle must have the answer to this!

MB

[SOSL]

Thanks Chug.

By the time I got there, the RAF Technical College had relocated from Henlow to Cranwell and rank inflation dictated that the Commandant was an AVM and the 2 Assistant Commandants (Cadets and Eng) were Air Commodores.

The Staish at that time was Gp Capt DB Craig, now Lord Craig of Radley, the last RAF officer to reach the rank of MRAF.

Rgds SOS

[Tankertrashnav]

"High Flight" - made a big impression on me as a young teenager


Me too - younger in fact. I saw this as a "short" before the main film which was "Reach for the Sky" at the local fleapit c 1957. Distinctly remember telling my parents I was going to be a pilot as we walked home, and remember that "sharing the bright fields of air" line as though it was yesterday. Never made pilot (in the RAF at least) but nav was a good second prize!

I went through Feltwell too, MPN 11, but I doubt if anyone ever made a film of that establishment. Yellow Squadron Sep - Dec 64 me - how about you?

[SOSL]

Hi Madbob.

My own experience was that I applied specifically for a cadetship at Cranwell, got the call to Biggin Hill and managed to get through.

I was an engineering cadet, at Cranwell, but I seem to remember the GD(P) cadets flying both Mk 3 and Mk5 JPs.

Rgds SOS

[Molemot]

As I remember it, in the early 70s, if you had a degree then they sent you to Cranwell. Us oiks bereft of such academic distinction ended up at Henlow, Church Fenton on Chipmunks (still got the tie!) and then to either Linton or Leeming; I was at 1 FTS on JP3s and 5s.

[Chugalug2]

A few points that may not be clear to all;
No we never walked on the carpet (until it was time to throw our caps in the air having slow marched in the front door to Old Lang Syne),
Nor did we stroll in the front door from academics etc (for the same reason),
We flew Mk 3s and 4s at this time (ours was the first Entry on the JP there),
A lot of the pilot training (especially night flying) was done at Barkston Heath,
None of us came with degrees, but some of us studied for and graduated with BA or AFRAeS degrees while there (I didn't!).
The whole course took 3 years (3 months now, isn't it?)

I see that this bit is reel 1. Can't seem to find reel 2, any chance Molemot?

[SOSL]

Chug's points are spot on we only entered and exited College Hall through the doors in the wings, except, as he says, after our graduation parade and that was the only time we walked on the carpet in the rotunda; unless you count the grad ball and that was more like staggering!

A few short years after your time, Chug. Although, still, none of us came with degrees, the engineering cadets studied for and mostly gained a BSc in Aeronautical engineering of one sort or another. We (engineers) spent 5 years at Cranwell.

First year spent learning how to get our hair cut and march in a straight line, then 3 years studying for the BSc, then 12 months on what was called the Applied Course - an introduction to the then current RAF equipment and procedures. In particular how to fill out a MT request form!

At that time all non-engineer cadets were offered the chance of taking up a university place to do a bachelor's degree in any subject and then return to Cranwell and finish their officer and professional training.

Also, at that time, the JP Mk 4s had been transferred to Shawbury for ATC training.

If I've got any of this wrong, BEags might correct me (if you see what I mean).

Rgds SOS

[Will1593]

Chugalug - here's reel 2 THE ROYAL AIRFORCE COLLEGE CRANWELL - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-royal-airforce-college-cranwell)

[Ian W]

Chug's points are spot on we only entered and exited College Hall through the doors in the wings, except, as he says, after our graduation parade and that was the only time we walked on the carpet in the rotunda; unless you count the grad ball and that was more like staggering!

A few short years after your time, Chug. Although, still, none of us came with degrees, the engineering cadets studied for and mostly gained a BSc in Aeronautical engineering of one sort or another. We (engineers) spent 5 years at Cranwell.

First year spent learning how to get our hair cut and march in a straight line, then 3 years studying for the BSc, then 12 months on what was called the Applied Course - an introduction to the then current RAF equipment and procedures. In particular how to fill out a MT request form!

At that time all non-engineer cadets were offered the chance of taking up a university place to do a bachelor's degree in any subject and then return to Cranwell and finish their officer and professional training.

Also, at that time, the JP Mk 4s had been transferred to Shawbury for ATC training.

If I've got any of this wrong, BEags might correct me (if you see what I mean).

Rgds SOS

98 entry was the last 'spring' Cadet entry 99 entry was offered University places. By 1970 the college was getting entries of 'green shield flight lieutenants' and A and B cadet sqns and C and D cadet sqns were amalgamated into two sqns.

[viz]

The Staish at that time was Gp Capt DB Craig, now Lord Craig of Radley, the last RAF officer to reach the rank of MRAF.

That's an interesting point... sorry for thread drift but why is it that we no longer have a MRAF? When I joined there was always at least one.

[Chugalug2]

Will1953:-
Chugalug - here's reel 2
I'm obliged to you, Sir. Your search technique is far superior to mine (not a surprise!).

[ShyTorque]

I joined the mob in 1976, as a direct entrant. I was sent to learn how to use the correct knife and fork at Henlow. We went straight to JPs at Linton after that. There was no piston engine training phase in those days.

[Stuff]

That's an interesting point... sorry for thread drift but why is it that we no longer have a MRAF? When I joined there was always at least one.

Actually we have 6:

HRH Prince Philip
HRH Prince Charles
MRAF Sir Michael Beetham
MRAF Sir Keith Williamson
MRAF David Craig, Baron Craig of Radley
MRAF Sir Peter Harding

of these only the first 2 are still serving, the others having retired on the same day they were promoted (retaining the rank for life) except Sir Peter who resigned his commission after being exposed as having had an affair.

[BEagle]

At that time all non-engineer cadets were offered the chance of taking up a university place to do a bachelor's degree in any subject and then return to Cranwell and finish their officer and professional training.

Also, at that time, the JP Mk 4s had been transferred to Shawbury for ATC training.

If I've got any of this wrong, BEags might correct me (if you see what I mean).



Indeed, Bill. It was on about Day 2 of marching about in lounge suits with shaved heads courtesy of 'Slasher' (Junior Mess barber and an utter $hit!) that this pearl was sprung on us. The choice was another 2½ years on the Flt Cdt system, graduating as a Plt Off or off to University as an APO for all the joys of Applied Fornication and Chipmunkery, with the odd lecture. So, those of us who were 1. Academically capable and 2. Not totally stupid, jumped at the chance and went to University either immediately or, in most cases, in Autumn 1969.

So enjoyable was UAS life in London that my 3 year course took 4 years, but the last year was as a Plt Off on roughly 3 x an LEA grant (remember those?). Like many of my contemporaries, I arrived back at 'Towers for my Graduate Entry IOT course with a sports car, hi-fi and money in the bank. Which improved yet further once we were promoted to Fg Off during IOT. So weird was the system that one chap on 16 GE, with an Honours Degree after a 4 year course, arrived as a substantive Flt Lt and technically outranked his IOT Flt Cdr who was an acting Flt Lt, being Direct Entry filth of some non-engineering ground-pounding branch....

By then the JP4s had gone and we started on the Mk3, then depending on fleet availability, the Mk5. About 3 people actually flew the Mk5 having never flown anything before, but most of us, having gained our PFBs on Chipmunks at a UAS, were on a reduced course.

Sadly the mystique of such hallowed traditions as the 'Senior Entry carpet' had gone; we didn't drill with rifles as that was considered frightfully lower order and really rather 'Henlow', so Wing Drill was nothing like as impressive as it had been in cadet days.... But I don't think that the RAFC ever really recovered....:uhoh:

[ShyTorque]

we didn't drill with rifles as that was considered frightfully lower order and really rather 'Henlow', so Wing Drill was nothing like as impressive as it had been in cadet days....

No doubt the rifle would have got tangled up in the handbag strap.... :E

[Tankertrashnav]

Viz I think what you were asking was why dont we still create MRAFs. The five star rank was discontinued in all three services in 1995, and Field Marshal Lord Inge was in fact the last 4 star to be appointed to 5 star rank (in 1994). The rank has not been entirely abolished and is retained for special circumstances, thus Flt Lt Wales may one day find himself MRAF Wales, but other than that they are a dying breed!

[Wander00]

If Sir P..H.............resigned his commission, how come he is still an MRAF. I was always under the impression that "resignation" meant just that.

[Stuff]

You could well be right, perhaps we only have 5...

[chopd95]

Did we not have a strictly drill weapon, Lee Enfield .303 shackled to one's bedstead in South Brick Lines? Inherited from some senior chap who may or may not have made more tiresome one's task of painting, varnishing and cleaning? informal inspection often perpetrated during the night time pleasure of "crowing".
Upon moving to College Hall, via the blocks surrounding junior mess parade ground, the .303 was replaced by a real rifle, stored in squadron armoury and issued for drill / parades by the introvert Flt Sgt Palmer. senior Entry paraded without rifles - swords for SUO / UOs ?

Chipmunks from North Airfield in junior entry, then JP 3 and 4 in final year.
seem to think the 3/4 were randomly allocated, though most of the later trips were in the JP4 - happy to be corrected !

[Clive Roberts]

Excellent film . I lived at RAF Cranwell AMQ 1966/7 many happy hours spent gliding on the North airfield . The shot of all the parked Chipmunks is where the present Aircrew Selection building stands. The hangar used for the raft exercises was full of Chipmunks in 1967. The hangar near to the Italian restaurant(was the Post Office then) was the Glider flight and the Flying Club with Tiger Moths and Austers.

I'm trying to locate Ian Wilson and Les Trewinnard, from Cranwell 1968. Any info from the author of the above quote?

Clive.

[Wander00]

Crikey, just read through this thread - tears to the eyes job- I won a scholarship and a cadetship, and passed out of the Towers in December 65, to go, to my amazement, to Valley. In my brick of history records sent me are my Cranwell assessments and reports. I wish they had told me my overall results at the time, might have helped my confidence. Still look back on the place with considerable affection. Really enjoyed my Secretarial Course there in 1980, and going back in 82 for 18 months as a flight commander in DIOT

[roving]

Actually we have 6:

HRH Prince Philip
HRH Prince Charles
MRAF Sir Michael Beetham
MRAF Sir Keith Williamson
MRAF David Craig, Baron Craig of Radley
MRAF Sir Peter Harding

of these only the first 2 are still serving, the others having retired on the same day they were promoted (retaining the rank for life) except Sir Peter who resigned his commission after being exposed as having had an affair.

Jock Stirrup has been made up too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Stirrup

The Queen appoints 3 former Chiefs of the Defence Staff to honorary 5-star rank
Her Majesty has given orders for the following honorary appointments:

Admiral the Lord Boyce KG, GCB, OBE, DL as Admiral of the Fleet
General the Lord Walker GCB, CMG, CBE, DL as Field Marshal
Air Chief Marshal the Lord Stirrup KG, GCB, AFC as Marshal of the Royal Air Force
The appointment to honorary 5-star rank is a promotion that can be given by the sovereign alone and is made sparingly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/2014-birthday-honours-for-service-personnel-and-defence-civilians

[caped crusader]

"I'm trying to locate Ian Wilson and Les Trewinnard, from Cranwell 1968. Any info from the author of the above quote?"

Clive,

Check your PMs.

CC