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Hell Man
8th Sep 2013, 18:50
So what's the low down on the new PM down under?

Word is he's going to try and discourage open homosexuality, evict immigrants and boost the economy?

But the biggest contribution, so some say, are his daughters!

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2010/12/20/1225974/148749-opposition-leader-tony-abbott-and-family.jpg

But that's just media talk.

Does anyone know what he's really up to?

BlankBox
8th Sep 2013, 19:49
...what's with the hand...he originally from Taz or sumphin ??? :sad:

500N
8th Sep 2013, 19:52
" ...what's with the hand...he originally from Taz or sumphin ??? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif"

Do you mean Tasmania ?

or something else ?

toffeez
8th Sep 2013, 20:17
He originally from London, old chap.

yencopter
8th Sep 2013, 20:33
I think he will make a good prime minister. :D

lomapaseo
8th Sep 2013, 21:38
Has he drawn his first red line yet?

galaxy flyer
8th Sep 2013, 21:57
Yes, at the NSW/QLD border.

GF

MTOW
8th Sep 2013, 21:59
Has he drawn his first red line yet?Many Australians are hoping he has, if in the water rather than the sand - about 50NM north of Christmas Island.

Sadly, if he has, it will probably be no more enforceable than any of Barry Obummer's. But we live in hope.

BenThere
8th Sep 2013, 22:35
Seems to me Australia has elected a good and decent man to be their new PM.

I wish him luck, and hope the conspiracy of media, academia, and union labor to discredit and destroy, both our heritage and the individuals who believe in it, as those forces did in America to GW Bush, Sarah Palin, et al., don't hold sway with a better informed populace.

Can't express how much I look forward to being in Australia for the renaissance.

Private jet
8th Sep 2013, 22:44
He's a politician, so it will go something like this; promises, excuses , promises, excuses, promises, excuses. Get the idea? just like all the rest.

onyxcrowle
8th Sep 2013, 22:48
He looks a bit like Tony Blair. A bit of a showman too.
Hope hes going to be a decent pm. Im betting he wont be offering support fir syria

500N
8th Sep 2013, 23:18
"A bit of a showman too."

Where do you get that idea ????????

Especially when you had Rudd as the other who is all showman
and no substance.

Richo77
8th Sep 2013, 23:39
He wears budgie smugglers in public. Need we say any more?

500N
8th Sep 2013, 23:41
That's a weak reason.

The only reason you know is because the media highlight it.

galaxy flyer
9th Sep 2013, 00:02
What are "budgie smugglers"?

GF

Richo77
9th Sep 2013, 00:06
GF;

Budgie Smugglers AKA Banana Hammock or Speedo's.

RJM
9th Sep 2013, 00:46
The Jesuits had him for the first seven years, so draw your own conclusions.

He may not be your first choice to go on some rollicking quasi-legal escapade, but IMHO he's the ideal guy to be PM.

He seems to lead a very disciplined life, and he certainly kept his party under control during nearly 4 years leading it in Opposition - no easy task with Labor doing all it could to finish him. The best dirt they came up with in all that time is that the guy may have punched a wall near a woman 35 years ago.

For all the Jesuit discipline, though, Abbott said recently that he'd learned through life that people should be given a bit of leeway, and that in most cases, people's actions are understandable, if not acceptable.

So the indications are good. I think the combination of Abbott, Bishop and Hockey should do pretty well.

Worrals in the wilds
9th Sep 2013, 00:58
He wears budgie smugglers in public. Need we say any more?

IIRC, in fairness that's because he was at a surf life saving comp; he could hardly compete in a pin striped suit. War in Oz regulars will know that I'm no fan of either the Libs or Tone, but I think the swimwear thing is a bit unfair.

I'm more concerned that he rides a bicycle while wearing Lycra. This points to an aggressive, bullying personality if the local Lyra bikers are any indication. :uhoh: :}

500N
9th Sep 2013, 01:02
I posted this in the Oz Politics thread but meant to post it here.

In regards to
"So the indications are good. I think the combination of Abbott, Bishop and Hockey should do pretty well."


I know it is a coalition but Bishop now has to step aside for Truss
because that is the way the coalition works.

So, why don't they have a NP as a deputy when in Opposition ?

Because it seems that Bishop has done all the hard yards for a few years now
but is now going to be Foreign Minister.

Abbott and her were a good team, with others, shame to split it up.

Andu
9th Sep 2013, 02:48
If I had a six pack at age 55 like Abbott's, I'd be quite happy to be seen in public in budgie smugglers. In a country that supposedly prides itself on its sporting prowess - (although these days, that's a long dead myth; but let's not go there) - having a leader who can wear budgie smugglers in public should be something we should be proud about. The way the mainstream media gleefully leapt aboard Labor's negative spin over the budgie smugglers "incident" speaks volumes about the blatant pro-Labor bias of 90% of our so-called "journalists". (What else should he have been wearing competing in a surf/swim race? And what was every other competitor in that race wearing?)

I just saw Abbott on Sky News stepping off the VIP 737 in Canberra this morning. He stopped briefly to acknowledge the two RAAF stewardesses at the foot of the stairs and they seemed to have an amicable conversation.

As someone who has himself stood at the foot of those stairs for more than one Prime Minister on both sides of politics if a long time ago, (and been totally ignored by most of them, Malcolm **** Fraser being the worst offender), I think that speaks volumes about the man.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 03:31
Andu

"I just saw Abbott on Sky News stepping off the VIP 737 in Canberra this morning. He stopped briefly to acknowledge the two RAAF stewardesses at the foot of the stairs and they seemed to have an amicable conversation.:

I just saw that on the news - and nearly fell over at it.

Even if he only did / does it once, the fact he did it says a lot.
They seemed to appreciate it.

We talk about Sporting prowess - Abbott was asked what the
highlight of his campaign was and he said doing a work out with
1 Armoured boys up in Darwin "and holding his own" !!!

A 55 year old holding his own with 18 - 30 year old in an
Army PT session, that is telling. And yes, I did watch him
do it on TV and know what is involved. They also seemed
to respect him for it, smiles ALL round the troops unlike
what you saw with Rudd when he visited the troops.

At least in that he leads by example.

Richo77
9th Sep 2013, 04:10
Budgie smugglers aside i know 2 card carrying liberals (who also share his views on religion and same sex marriage) who both know him personally and they have both separately told me that as a person he is a "nutbag" or words to that effect. I'm not saying that Rudd or JG or any of the others aren't, It's just what i've been told.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 04:35
Richo

A great article in the Age on the team that help Abbott get over the line,
especially the two head people, especially then young lady who was in
charge of him "on the road" reined him in and stopped him making his
foot in mouth, tempestuous gaffes.

I do think he is a bit "different" to a lot of people.

SASless
9th Sep 2013, 04:58
http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2010/12/20/1225974/148749-opposition-leader-tony-abbott-and-family.jpg

Four Women in the house.....at least we know where he gets his Patience from.....waiting to get access to the Dunny.

bosnich71
9th Sep 2013, 05:00
Andu ..... on being ignored at the foot of the stairs. Been there myself but always found Howard and Costello to be very polite .... despite the usual Aussie MSM crap.

cattletruck
9th Sep 2013, 05:12
Didn't think much of either major party candidate this election, so I voted for that fat rich cnut Clive Palmer on the grounds that the political pot needs a bit of a stir.

Struck a very friendly conversation with someone at the polling booths, turns out she was a running candidate for Tony's party and won her seat. She looked the part, ethusiastic, intelligent and had a mature disposition for her relatively young age.

I plan on visiting her just to congratulate her and see if she still remembers me. :rolleyes:

Worrals in the wilds
9th Sep 2013, 05:31
Didn't think much of either major party candidate this election, so I voted for that fat rich cnut Clive Palmer on the grounds that the political pot needs a bit of a stir.I think that you just summed up the mood of the nation. :E
Palmer reminds me of Kerry Packer a bit, though Kerry was wittier and I think smarter. Both successful, both big, loud and irreverent... I think that's why they both appeal(ed) to many ordinary Australians.

Although Packer wasn't self-made (and never pretended to be) I think both men represent the way many Aussies would like to see themselves behaving if they had millions of dollars. The other thing with Palmer is there's no script writer; no team of media gurus or spin-meisters. It's just him saying what he thinks and doing his own ads, and I think people found it refreshing.

Abbott has some of the same 'au naturel' appeal, in fact with hindsight I think the gaffes actually helped him along a bit.

If they're going to get back on their feet quickly, Labor need to get back to some natural looking and sounding candidates in a big hurry. A few people who've had real jobs (even if it was prior to entering the union movement) would be a great start, and not just in the safe Liberal seats that don't count, either. :hmm: Whoever wins the leadership needs to paint the words RANK AND FILE on their bedroom ceiling in big letters, so it's the first thing they see when they wake up. If they do that and hound out the rorters quick pronto, then they probably have half a chance.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 05:34
"Labor need to get back to some natural looking and sounding candidates
in a big hurry."

And to do that, they need to get rid of or rein in the factions
and not sure that is going to happen in a hurry.

Grenville Fortescue
9th Sep 2013, 08:37
Some of ex-MP Ross Cameron's comments about Abbott from The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/trusted-team-to-govern/story-e6frg6z6-1226714796916):

Abbott confidant and former Howard frontbencher Ross Cameron disagrees. "Abbott's first ministry will have continuity written large on it," he says. "The people who held the jobs in opposition are likely to retain those jobs in the first Abbott term. That means making a deliberate choice to leave out a significant number of people who think talent should trump continuity."

Cameron says some of the borderline members of the frontbench will be given "a year to prove they deserve to retain their place", but "eventually gravity will demand that new people be let in", he says. Peter Dutton may have been an absent figure in the campaign, indeed, for much of the past three years, in his health portfolio. But that was the directive he was given. Health has always been a policy area more favourable for Labor than the Coalition, so Dutton's orders were to lay low. He will have the key task of identifying savings for the budget, which will cut the health bureaucracy rather than front-line services. It will be Dutton's chance to move back into the mainstream.

Cameron agrees [see linked article] but thinks new entrants are unlikely to be quickly promoted. "The first thing that the new prime minister will do is crush the deepest hopes and aspirations of the newest members," he says.

It will be a difficult first term for Abbott, given both the national challenges and the disparate arrival of minor parties in the Senate. Ensuring his team is properly calibrated for the jobs at hand will be crucial to the early fortunes of the new government.

Worrals in the wilds
9th Sep 2013, 08:58
Cameron agrees [see linked article] but thinks new entrants are unlikely to be quickly promoted. "The first thing that the new prime minister will do is crush the deepest hopes and aspirations of the newest members," he says.That's not a bad idea. One of the problems the Qld LNP government has had is the number of brand new MPs in ministerial positions. When your Attorney General looks like he should still be getting ID checked at the pub and your Police Minister is a recent former cop (never a good idea, it's like giving a kid his very own McDonald's restaurant :}), they tend to trip over their own feet a bit.

Of course the LNP had been out of power for so long in Qld that most of their former serving government MPs had either died or were limited to providing TV election-night commentary from their nursing home verandah (former Premier Russell Cooper, we're looking at you :zzz::E) so they didn't have much choice...

However, given their landslide victory after years in opposition even diehard Tories were complaining about 1. the lack of governing experience amongst their MPs and 2. the onslaught of one-term wannabes demanding senior Ministries because they'd rolled a former Labor heavyweight in a formerly safe seat.

Given that the federal coalition has many experienced people, it makes sense to use them accordingly. It saves a lot of media heartache, unintended failure-to-declare breaches and crazy, bright eyed schemes that end badly.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 09:04
Worrals

I'll add to your last sentence, the people already know the portfolio so they
can hit the ground running instead of trying to not only learn the portfolio
but also the people in the Dept's.

I think it's a good idea as well, too much change too quickly is crazy.
We had the situation of Bracks when he unexpectedly won the election
then did nothing for 2 years.

Lon More
9th Sep 2013, 09:48
so will the suppository of wisdom stuff it to the Australian people?

Worrals in the wilds
9th Sep 2013, 10:11
Probably not, because the Senate's looking awesome. One from the Motoring Enthusiast's Party, one from the Sports Party, one from the Liberal Democrats who thinks everyone should have a handgun...

Needless to say the political commentators are frothing at the mouth, but like it or lump it... the demos has spoken.

The prevailing media view seems to be that people are too stupid to understand the preference system, but I think they understand the system all too well, and that's why candidates from outside the political oligarchy scored so many votes. If nothing else, it's reminded me how much I hate being called stupid by some media gob, who's only on the telly by virtue of hosting a radio show in some southern city that I've never been to. Suck it up, princess!

When the little parties get up (and Palmer's the biggest of the little winners) it means that people distrust the majors. That's the major's problem, not the people's. While the prevailing wisdom is that people get the government they deserve, I think that in this case the parties have gotten the Senate they deserve. Best of luck, fellahs! :E

http://media2.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/thumbnails/collection_images/3/395.1993.a-c%23%23S.jpg.505x477_q85.jpg
(Lin Onus, Fruitbats...great artist BTW and well worth checking out)

The current local (NQ) rag reported how a surprising number of people voted Liberal/Labor but neither collected nor followed the parties' how to vote cards or voted 'above the line' in the Senate (ie followed the major party preferences). I know I didn't. I spent a bit of time online researching senate parties and numbered the whole bloody thing accordingly. :bored:

If nothing gets done then that's probably all most people crave from a government; stay out of the way, fix the roads and let people get on with doing their business.

Yamagata ken
9th Sep 2013, 10:21
Tony Abbott: ‘My vision for Australia is not that Big Brother government knows best; it’s that our country will best flourish when all of our citizens, individually and collectively, have the best chance to be their best selves. Government’s job is rarely to tell people what to do; mostly, it’s to make it easier for people to make their own choices.’

Andu
9th Sep 2013, 10:25
Tony Abbott has pulled off the almost impossible in keeping every member of the "broad church" that is the Liberal/Nationals coalition in line -and out of unfavourable headlines - over the last six years. (And he - or should it be Peta Credlin? - should be congratulated for that.)

The big question is whether he can continue to do so with all those very disparate prima donnas all wanting their bite of the cherry now now that they're in government. (And which,if he's not going to give some, if not most of the new talent, a run, will be almost impossible for some.)

If he can pull that off, he'll really deserve congratulations. Myself, I can't see that at least one or two of those who feel that

(a) they're missing out on the spoils of power and

(b) that the direction the new government s taking isn't exactly the way they want it to go

won't break ranks and allow some journalist to exploit the "division" in the government ranks with a tale of woe that the whole of the MSM will latch onto in undisguised glee. For Australia's sake as much as Tony Abbott's, I hope he (or Ms Credlin) can continue to pull off the impossible.

I16
9th Sep 2013, 10:49
Andu

"I just saw Abbott on Sky News stepping off the VIP 737 in Canberra
this morning. He stopped briefly to acknowledge the two RAAF stewardesses at the
foot of the stairs and they seemed to have an amicable conversation.:

I just saw that on the news - and nearly fell over at it.



Just saw the clip and looked like VIP C604

onetrack
9th Sep 2013, 11:55
Abbotts credentials:

Attended Jesuit primary and high schools (reputedly, his grandfather caught a ship to Australia during WW2 and promised to turn Catholic if the family arrived safely. They did, and he did).

Is a Rhodes Scholar (graduated from Queens College Oxford, with an MA in Politics and Philosophy).

University debating team champion.

Joined in boxing activities whilst at Oxford (noted for his pugilistic stance when confronting people).

Known for strongly opposing the then left-wing student leadership whilst at Oxford. He got beaten up for it.

Spent 3 years studying for the Catholic priesthood at Manly, Sydney (1984-1987).

During this time, he was influenced by B.A. Santamaria, a Right Wing Labor Catholic leader whose strident views against Communism were well known. B.A. Santamaria was a Right Wing article writer of renown.

Toyed with joining the Labor Party just after he left training for the priesthood. Decided the Labor Party wasn't for him.

Worked as Plant Manager for a concrete company for a short time (might have given him some ideas on how to get rid of opposition?).

Married a Kiwi, Margie (can anyone forgive him for this??)

Worked as a journalist for the Bulletin and the Australian Newspapers (both Right Wing tabloids) during his student, seminary and early politician days.

Worked as executive director for "Australians for Constitutional Monarchy" - a group intent on keeping Queen Elizabeth II the constitutional head of Australia.

Full-time politician and political animal since 1994.


Has an exceptionally conservative view of all things religious, political and economic. Driven by his powerful Catholic upbringing and Catholic mentors.

Doesn't believe in same-sex marriage, but might allow it, if he sees he's outnumbered (see above).

Would abolish abortion if he could (knows he can't, so he strives to reduce abortions to as few as possible).

Is known to be a bit of a "loose cannon".

His grasp of the economics of running a country is judged by many, as poor.

His leadership ability really has yet to be tested. No-one doubts his political cunning.


He's a Scorpio with Aries in his Sun sign. Scorpios ruthlessly knife their enemies with unbelievable passion, and specialise in gaining psychological advantage over their enemies by any means possible. They are also the most secretive of all the birth signs.

Famous Scorpios:

Military: George Patton, P.J. Goebbels (Nazi), Erwin Rommel

Religious Leaders: Billy Sunday, Martin Luther, Billy Graham

Politicians: Warren G. Harding, Michael Dukakis, Joseph McCarthy, Indira Gandhi, Theodore Roosevelt, H.R. Haldeman, James K. Polk, James Garfield.

My guess for Tony Abbotts future? He'll end up with a knife in his back before his term is out - unless he can knife his opponent first. It's a rough game, politics.

dubbleyew eight
9th Sep 2013, 12:07
onetrack I was with you right up to "he's a scorpio" then I was convinced you'd declared yourself an idiot.

onetrack
9th Sep 2013, 12:23
Dubbleyew - The last paragraph was all tongue-in-cheek. Lighten up, man! :)

Worrals in the wilds
9th Sep 2013, 12:35
During this time, he was influenced by B.A. Santamaria, a Right Wing Labor Catholic leader whose strident views against Communism were well known. B.A. Santamaria was a Right Wing article writer of renown.
Well, isn't that nice. You're not the first person to remind me that he's traditionally a good DLP man! Of course the DLP scattered to both winds; half to the Libs and half to Labor. Families were split, albeit amicably. Such is the nature of Australian politics...and why thirty years on Christmas dinners can still get politically complicated. :suspect:

Santamaria represented a type of Labor voter that has been largely neglected by the party since the defeat of the Keating government. The left wing economic, but right wing social (often ethnic) voter who works for a wage and expects a fair go for that, while not necessarily supportive of left-wing causes such as free-range immigration and welfare for willful non-workers.

These are the people Labor has lost due to their pandering to inner city trendies. The people who support social welfare but not rampant benefits. The people who dislike Big Business but suffer because of excessive regulation of their own Small Business, where they don't want to kill people but drown in a sea of WH&S red tape and state government charges that do nothing to prevent the true pirates from running unsafe operations and just cost everyone else a bunch of money. :sad:.

The current student-union bred Labor oligarch despises Santamaria, and that's why tonight they're on the opposition benches. After another three years they may come to see his POV, and realize what the electorate wants. They may not like that; they may even detest it, but to assume Aussies are left wing socialists is like assuming that the other Santa will bring presents at Christmas; cute, but ultimately self defeating, and a bit embarrassing. :O

heated ice detector
9th Sep 2013, 12:50
This little ditto taken from independant Australia website 'tony Abbott, who is he'
The rest is quite amusing too.
He’s not that good at keeping promises. He swore a vow of chastity. He squirmed out of his shotgun wedding. He stood up Bernie Banton, who had ‒ at some inconvenience ‒ come to his office to see him in the last week of his life. He agreed with his hero Howard that global warming was real then called it ‘crap’. He defended a convicted pederast, Nestor, in court, and got him out of prison. He begged a friend of pederasts, Hollingworth, not to resign. He concealed, according to his uncontradicted biographer, acts of homosexual rape by trainee priests at St Barnabus’ — his college.

He gave up the priesthood because his friends were making more money (so he told Annabel on Wednesday). He was elected Opposition Leader by Peter Slipper’s lone vote and went to his wedding. He turned up to the wedding 20 minutes late, leaving everyone waiting and Slipper’s bride in tears. He then tried to drive his “friend” to suicide.

He ran from the chamber to refuse Craig Thomson’s vote, then later accepted it.

cattletruck
9th Sep 2013, 13:12
Don't forget Tony's long lost son back in 2005. :yuk:

The ending was a matter of wait and see. :yuk:

7x7
9th Sep 2013, 13:54
HID, you're drifting into sick puppydom with crap like: "He swore a vow of chastity." He pulled the pin three years into his training for the priesthood. That particular vow isn't made until (dare I call it) graduation day after at least seven years in the seminary.

If you Lefties could cast your minds back some six years, I think you'll find that most of the Right Wing Reactionaries didn't start moaning about KRudd until he started screwing things up. (Remember Kev the Economic Conservative? many of us actually thought he might have a few good ideas.) ) Maybe you could consider giving Tony Abbott the same leeway? Let's wait until (even if it's only in your eyes) he starts screwing up before launching into the kind of destructive crap you've listed in your last post.

For Australia's sake (and that includes you Lefties) let's hope he gets a few things right before he starts screwing up. I'm first to accept that he will screw a few things up.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 14:09
Oh yes, he will screw a few things up OK. Every PM has.

The good thing is, he has quite a bit of experience himself and in the party
to call on, they are not all "newbies" to Parliament so hopefully some wise
heads will prevail.

Bishop for one is likely to be one who will always speak her mind.

heated ice detector
9th Sep 2013, 14:23
Tony Abbott: Who is he? | Independent Australia (http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbott-who-is-he/).
Some one else asked the question, I am just relaying an independant site for people to read and make their own judgements

Solid Rust Twotter
9th Sep 2013, 14:28
What happened to the Oz politics thread? Been off a couple of days and it's disappeared. Did the usual suspects finally succeed in getting it binned?

500N
9th Sep 2013, 14:32
SRT

No, War in Australia (any OZ politics) is half way down the
first page of topics / threads.

I think this thread should be merged with it !!!

Solid Rust Twotter
9th Sep 2013, 15:19
Cheers, bloke. Must be getting senile or something...:ok:

500N
9th Sep 2013, 15:21
Don't worry, I do it all the time, get to page 3 of the threads,
go back to page 1 and there it is :O

dat581
9th Sep 2013, 15:33
So this Independant Australia page is Independant just like the Melbourne Age and just as full of fact less left wing crap. HID if you want to be taken seriously you will have to try harder and point to a non biased site.

BenThere
9th Sep 2013, 15:49
He squirmed out of his shotgun wedding.

I hadn't heard that. Did he actually squirm, like a worm, slithering secretly out from the chapel, or are you writing figuratively?

Were there real shotguns present? If so squirming out of it might indicate a diplomatic and strategic aplomb to be cherished in a leader.

Obviously from the family portrait shown here, he found a suitable partner and was blessed with a beautiful family. Maybe he's a smart one after all.

lomapaseo
9th Sep 2013, 16:26
I think this thread should be merged with it !!!

agree,

but initially a thread like this is more globally of interest and stands on its own for a couple of pages.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 16:27
Yes, agree, not a bad point.

BenThere
9th Sep 2013, 16:34
Don't forget, also, that the 'hamster wheel' designation was designed to be insult to those of us who wanted a forum to discuss politics.

The implication was that such discussions were futile wheel spinning with no result.

I think discussion of any topic should be allowed to run its course. If it is of no import it will quickly move to the back pages and be forgotten. If it matters it will stick around. No re-designation as 'hamster' is necessary.

500N
9th Sep 2013, 17:10
dat581

HID is like every other lefty ******, they only read lefty media
because it reinforces their view of being 100% correct and everyone
else being wrong.

So don't expect any changes in a hurry.


It has been interesting on this thread to see who reads what media,
even if they don't like it (ie a certain newspaper). I know having them
on line helps but it is amazing the number of people who only get news
from one source - be it The Herald Sun, The Age / SMH etc.

heated ice detector
10th Sep 2013, 01:10
Of course it's a lefty publication, just trying to give some balance when the usual suspects are quoting Mr Bolt.
Anyone no when Abbotts court case against Ettridge is due. I hope Julia has a nice comfy armchair:rolleyes:

500N
10th Sep 2013, 01:17
"I hope Julia has a nice comfy armchair:rolleyes:"

With her knitting ? :O

I think she will be on the beach or on the talk circuit :O

parabellum
10th Sep 2013, 03:01
I think she will be on the beach or on the talk circuit

or walking round the exercise yard in a smart orange number! :E

CoodaShooda
10th Sep 2013, 03:10
Of course it's a lefty publication, just trying to give some balance when the usual suspects are quoting Mr Bolt.

That's akin to believing that two wrongs make a right.

(Or Gillard and Rudd made one good PM.)

Frank Arouet
10th Sep 2013, 04:02
Or two Wong's make anything wright.

BTW, where's Tim?

500N
10th Sep 2013, 04:07
In his shed :O


Or trying to crash another motorbike :O

onetrack
10th Sep 2013, 07:53
Stopping asylum seeker boats is going to be the place where Tony Abbott either reaches a new level of respect as a leader - or fails to achieve any effective result.

Asylum seekers from 3rd-world countries, rocking up by the thousand on 1st-world shores, are a character-testing world-wide problem, and I haven't seen any country yet, that has the perfect solution.

Abbott has come out with his hard line on asylum seekers again today - but the Howard Govts "Pacific Solution" - in which Abbott had a big hand - did little to stop the number of asylum seekers landing on our shores.
It will be interesting to see if he can produce a more effective solution. I notice that the "buying up the boats" idea has suddenly sunk without trace. :)

500N
10th Sep 2013, 08:02
I would live it if Abbott came up with a solution that worked,
not just for the reasons that it should but I would love to see
him stick it right up the Lefty wankers who have fcuked over
Australia in the last 6 years.

I am going to enjoy making sure the Gov't hears the people
and they lose as much influence as possible and that some
of the Gov't departments are changed to do gooders don't
run them anymore.

People are sick of them, this rule, that rule, this regulation,
you can't go out of the house without someone telling you
what to do.

rjtjrt
10th Sep 2013, 08:06
but the Howard Govts "Pacific Solution" - in which Abbott had a big hand - did little to stop the number of asylum seekers landing on our shores.

Onetrack, can you give some evidence that led you to this statement?

Andu
10th Sep 2013, 08:37
Abbott has come out with his hard line on asylum seekers again today - but the Howard Govts "Pacific Solution" - in which Abbott had a big hand - did little to stop the number of asylum seekers landing on our shores. This kind of sweeping and totally inaccurate comment will fly in the coffee shops of Fitzroy or Newtown and on 'The Drum' and 'Crikey' sites, one_track, but don't expect to get away with it here.

In a word, what you've said is untrue. I've amended the first word I wrote - it was another word for male bovine excrement.

onetrack
10th Sep 2013, 10:35
Well, if Malcolm Farr's figures are anywhere near correct, 97% of asylum seekers that arrived under the Pacific Solution between 1999 and 2001 were settled in Australia - and 70% of the Nauru and Manus Island detainees to 2007 were also resettled, mostly in Australia.

Refugees on $4 million boats | Daily Telegraph Malcolm Farr Blog (http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/malcolmfarr/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/refugees_on_4_million_boats/)

What's your solution, Andu? Not forgetting that we are party to 2 U.N conventions on Refugees. Withdraw from the U.N. conventions and shoot holes in refugee boats as soon as they reach Australias territorial waters??
Step up man, I'm sure Tony is looking for some new ideas.

500N
10th Sep 2013, 10:39
"Withdraw from the U.N. conventions and shoot holes in refugee boats as soon as they reach Australias territorial waters??"

Quite a few people in Aus would be willing to do that.

Just read some of the comments in some of the newspapers.

Just make sure it happens inside the Indo 12 mile limit :ok:

Oh, and we should pull out of the UN conventions
and tell the UN to stick it. Useless lefty wannabes.

Yellow & Blue Baron
10th Sep 2013, 10:42
We have made a big mistake in Sweden by allowing immigrants.

Yes, it is very good liberal "love the whole world" policy which sounds nice but it is :mad:ing-up our country!

500N
10th Sep 2013, 10:45
I know, I have a mate who is Swedish, he can't believe what is happening.

Don't you have one of the biggest Muslim populations now ?

Yellow & Blue Baron
10th Sep 2013, 10:51
Please 500N don't ruin my day.

We have tried as a country for so many years to be "neutral" and to help people but the liberal governments of the 90's basically allowed these people to come in and it is now creating internal social divisions which we have never before seen in our culture. Not for 100's of years at least.

They are saying that upwards of 5% of our population is now muslim :yuk:. Muslims who want to kill you if you say or even think one thing about them or their religion which is different to what they believe.

This is not how we live. I wish they would return to their own countries and take their problems with them.

Yellow & Blue Baron
10th Sep 2013, 11:00
Well now you officially ruin my day 500N my to make me check the figures:

Muslims in Scandinavia

Finland 20,000

Norway 79,000 (10% more than in 2006)

Denmark 260,000

Sweden 500,000

:mad: :ugh: :oh:

I am not joke when I think to move to Finland.

bosnich71
10th Sep 2013, 14:15
....... and they should be allowed to live in Scandinavian countries because the Scandinavians colonised their countries etc. etc.

That's 'tongue in cheek' by the way. It is usually used in the case of unlimited immigration into Britain. :confused:

SOPS
10th Sep 2013, 14:52
Shooting holes in the boats? Sounds like it could work...just do it when they send their first Mayday call, usually about 5 metres off the Indonesian shore line. That way, they can all wade back to the beach.

BenThere
10th Sep 2013, 18:17
Why don't any of the European receiver states do the obvious? Cut off the welfare!

500N
10th Sep 2013, 20:50
See, the lefty socialist wankers are screaming already :D:D:D:D:D

Bishops slam foreign aid cuts

Australia's Catholic bishops have attacked the Coalition's planned foreign aid cut, saying the proposed $4.5 billion “clawback” was like a rich man chasing a beggar to recover crumbs from his table.


John Ferguson, executive officer of the Australian Catholic Social Justice Council, said the policy, unveiled just two days before Saturday's federal election, was unworthy of a civilised nation.


How about we fix our own problems first, INCLUDING our Budget before we hand out $4.5 billion ?

500N
10th Sep 2013, 22:03
"Done properly it usually means one can become even more helpful in the longterm, emergency situations like national disasters aside."

Exactly.

It's not like Julia is wiping out the foreign aid, just reigning it in a little bit.

The problem is, the lefties are just take, take, take, regardless of how much
you give them they just want more and more like a big black hole !!!
(That sounds like a good description of the UN :O)

Australia isn't stingy.

rjtjrt
10th Sep 2013, 22:40
Yellow and Blue Baron
Sad to hear your report.
Sweden is a great nation, full of overachieving people.
Amazing what their industry have achieved worldwide from such a relatively small population (almost 10 million).

7x7
10th Sep 2013, 23:07
It's not like Julia is wiping out the foreign aid, just reigning it in a little bit.
500N, it's JiluE, not JuliA. Wash your mouth out with lye soap.

Welcome to the discussion, Y&B Baron. I understand that Malmo (or parts of it) has now become a "no go" area for police and emergency services. Sad to see the results of misguided policies by well meaning politicians, most if not all of whom (just like in Australia) do not live in retirement anywhere near the areas where any of the people they welcomed to the country now live.

one_track, nice attempt (but no prize) with switching your original allegation. You originally said that Howard's policy did not reduce the number of arrivals. (Not true. The boat arrivals had all but stopped in the 12 months before 'I'm the smartest man in any room' KRudd pranced onto the world stage craving accolades from an uncaring world for his 'feel good, kinder' policy.) Now you've switched to saying that most of those who came eventually got to settle here. Not the same argument - and also not true. Almost a third of the Tampa passengers were settled elsewhere, but that's a fact the Left always seems keen to overlook.

You ask Andu what he'd do. If there was an easy answer to that, someone would have come up with it already, but one thing is certain. Tony Abbott has to (very diplomatically) read the riot act to the Indonesians and tell them, in no uncertain terms, that the good old days of the last six years are over. It doesn't matter if they find a turn back policy unacceptable. They need to be told that their current policy is unacceptable to Australia.

It's the equivalent of a neighbour throwing the contents of his rubbish bin over the fence and finding it 'unacceptable' if the neighbour gathers it up and puts in back where it came from. The only way neighbour #1 gets away with behaviour like that is when he's a powerful bully and neighbour #2 is a 90 pound weakling.

Some would say that after six years of Labor misrule, that's a pretty accurate portrayal of the Indonesia/Australia relationship. If that is so, maybe it's time the Australian Government acknowledged it officially and told its people that we're not giving billions in "aid" to Indonesia, but as "Danegeld" (protection money).

500N
10th Sep 2013, 23:11
7x7

Your post was a very good summary and totally agree re him having to tell
Indo it has to stop.

"Tony Abbott has to (very diplomatically) read the riot act to the Indonesians"

Well, it says in the media that he is going there very soon,
maybe even next week.

Andu
10th Sep 2013, 23:55
Pasted from the Pickering site:

speedy2460 12 minutes ago
Theres lots of chatter that a lot of people voted more than once. Also recently deceased people are reported to have voted. Maybe its time for ID to be shown or maybe electronic voting.

500N
10th Sep 2013, 23:58
It didn't help Labor much :O

BenThere
11th Sep 2013, 00:00
One solution would be to leave all the arrivals at Australia's reception island indefinitely. Give them bags of wheat, access to a community wheat grinder and Bob's your uncle. The boats would stop after a few months..guaranteed.

500N
11th Sep 2013, 00:05
BenThere

Agreed.

But the lefties would have a fit and challenge it in a court
- as they do everything - which is why quite a few talk
about stopping the boats BEFORE they get to Australian
waters, even if it means sinking a few.

The problem is, "Australian SAR waters" extend almost
up the the Indonesian Islands to within I think nearly
as close to the 12 mile limit so anyone in these areas
is our responsibility.

We need to stop them getting to us, that way the lefty
wankers can't use the courts in Australia.

Richo77
11th Sep 2013, 00:45
Andu,

A number of my friends reported they only had the option to vote with a pencil and were not happy about it but had no other option.

7x7
11th Sep 2013, 01:14
richo, I voted a week early (couldn't wait) and the same applied at the booth where I voted. A soft point pencil at every booth. I know there'll be some who'll say the system is the way it is because every other system is worse, but PENCIL?? Back in my airline days, the scheduling guys were forced by the union to use biro for roster/call out changes because using pencil, it was too easy to "amend" the paperwork to fit the company story in the event of a dispute with a pilot.

Anyone who believes there aren't true believers out there, who, given the slimmest chance, won't "amend" the paperwork in elections hasn't ever read a Frank Hardy book. There's one electorate where the margin for who will win is currently running a 14 (that's FOURTEEN!!!) votes. In the 2010 election, that one electorate could have decided which party formed government.

The current system is too easily manipulated in far too many ways and needs to be changed.

heated ice detector
11th Sep 2013, 02:33
You guys seem to spend a whole lot of time worrying about a few legal asylum seekers.
Relax, take a deep breath, after all they will stop coming soon...

heated ice detector
11th Sep 2013, 02:40
I see a liberal deputy campaign manager has been filmed ripping down several opposition banners and threatening women and children at different western Sydney voting locations during election day.
Threatening women, possible future Lib leader in the making

500N
11th Sep 2013, 02:46
HID

"You guys seem to spend a whole lot of time worrying about a few legal asylum seekers. Relax, take a deep breath, after all they will stop coming soon..."

Firstly, it is NOT a few. 50,000 in 6 months.

Secondly, they are NOT legal. They are entering Aus illegally.

Thirdly, it costs Australia a heap of $$$$.

And finally, you forget it is an opportunity for the right
to stick it up the left and try to tear down what they hold
dear to themselves :O

And they won't stop coming unless someone does something like
Howard did.

heated ice detector
11th Sep 2013, 03:34
Here you go 500
Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are neither engaging in illegal activity, nor are they immigrants

The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents.

The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

Now Scot Morrison has called them illegal and so does Andrew Bolt ( AB found guilty by Australian judge for racism by the way)

it is costing more money to prevent a legal activity than it would to just house them and find them work, unless they are just holding up the traffic of course.
now back to my relaxing chai latte and hobnobs!!

500N
11th Sep 2013, 03:48
HID

As most of Australia thinks, stick the UN Convention up the drain pipe
even if we did sign it, a lot of people think we should leave it.

Secondly, Australia has excised the islands to our north from being classified
as Australia for the purposes of the AS so even if they land on some of them
they haven't landed on Aus yet. Yes, more than one way to skin a cat.

Whether they have a "right" or not, no one really cares because it is only
the UN Convention that gives them that "right". If the UN Convention was
not there, they would not have that right. Hence why the calls to leave it.

I, and a lot of others don't have a problem with refugees per se, most of us live in a very multi cultural society and quite like it. We have a great Cosmo city in Melbourne.

BUT, a fair few if not the majority of these people are NOT refugees.
Just look at the well dressed, fit, well fed, latest mobile phone and PC carrying
people who were photographed getting off the boats in the last 6 months.

"Andrew Bolt (AB found guilty by Australian judge for racism by the way)"
So what, if someone wants to be a racist, why can't they ?
Freedom of Speech being trampled on by others.
I think you'd find when it comes to these AS, quite a few Aussies
would be called racist.

heated ice detector
11th Sep 2013, 04:46
Hi 500
I think Mr Bolt would of tried the freedom of speech line and "maybe its just the vibe". Why cant a radio jock be racist? you got me on that one

I was wondering when you left the motherland and came to these fine shores were you not well dressed, well fed and perhaps it was before mobiles and pc's but you could of afforded one no less.
what makes you different to an asylum seeker.
did you not both arrive (I assume you are legal) legally under the current laws.

I am not too sure if you can repeal a UN convention by just telling them to "stick it"
at least one or two forms to fill out

ChrisJ800
11th Sep 2013, 04:58
Fixing our politics and economy is easy. Fixing our embarassing rugby and cricket teams, thats hard! At least Abbott is a genuine sports and keep fit junkie.

500N
11th Sep 2013, 05:00
"I am not too sure if you can repeal a UN convention by just telling them to "stick it" at least one or two forms to fill out"

Probably, you could just ignore it totally !

Re me,
1. My parents (father) was seconded out here for 2 - 3 years that turned into 4.
2. I left school, 17, came out, told them I was going to stay whether they went back or not.
3. They applied for and got perm residency (not sure what it cost but hoops
had to be jumped through).
4. I joined the Australian Army Reserve and got citizenship within
6 months which was what you had to do then by law to stay in.

"were you not well dressed" My parents would say no :O
It was the era of DM's, Punk, drainpipe jeans etc :O

"but you could of afforded one no less."
I couldn't have, I was flat broke, had to get a job, worked hard, saved,
bought a car, left work and went to Uni ........ the usual.


Plenty of avenues exist for people to come to Aus, both poor or rich
and of any Nationality. We as a country don't discriminate as long as
you are not a crim and not a terrorist or member or ex member of
a Nationalist type group. But rules and methods exist for entry and
that is why they have them.

500N
11th Sep 2013, 05:01
"Fixing our embarassing rugby and cricket teams, thats hard!"

I think that is going to be a while yet :(

Lon More
11th Sep 2013, 06:16
I was wondering when you left the motherland and came to these fine shores

I thought he was one of the last to be transported :E

500N
11th Sep 2013, 06:18
Lon More

Thank you :O

I precede that period, I am from the Neanderthal era :O

bosnich71
11th Sep 2013, 06:35
H.I.D. ...... "left the Motherland" ? Isn't that statement a little 'racist' ?

I suppose it is how the recipient takes the jibe or whatever.A bit like being called a Pom, not racist, or is it ?. Some people take offence some don't. Personally if someone calls me a Pommy Bastard, face to face, then that's fine by me. I'll either laugh at the pratt or give him a smack in the teeth depending on what side of the bed I got out that day.( and how big he is, of course ).
It's the smart a**e MSM who give me the s***s because they use the term in a derogatory fashion in the media but are all so P.C. and "non racist".... and wouldn't dream of being like that nasty Mr. Bolt.... but seem to think that it is acceptable to label one particular ethnic minority.
After 200 years or so I would have thought that the average Australian journalist would have forgiven us, from the Motherland, for having found Oz and given them such a nice place to live in but, no, the drivel goes on.
I have been here since 1974.Like all genuine immigrants I had to jump through lots of hoops and checks something which seems to have been dropped for the latest arrivals. I have worked with lots of immigrants from Europe who arrived in the 50's and 60's who could tell you stories about their treatment by the Australian Immigration Dept; after their arrival, that would make your hair curl.
I'll quote one Dutch friend who 2 days after arriving, in the mid fifties, found himself shipped off to the Nullabor where he then worked, on the railway, for the next 2 years. Not because he wanted to but because he had to. No Q.C.s' waiting on the dock to help him with his case for damages against the Australian Govt.in those days.
Perhaps that is why the majority of those from whatever Motherland they originated in are somewhat p*****d off with the latest arrivals.

sisemen
11th Sep 2013, 06:42
what makes you different to an asylum seeker

The level of ignorance in that statement is breathtaking.

As a legal immigrant I paid many thousands of dollars in processing fees over a 3 year period (and that's the amount of time it took for a non-criminal pom to be checked out); underwent very thorough medical checks and jumped through every hoop imaginable put in my way by Australia House before I finally landed on these shores. I was also barred from sucking on the public welfare teat for 2 years (it is now 3 apparently).

In contrast ...... well, do I really have to spell it out? OK, I forgot I'm dealing with HID so here goes.....

An illegal immigrant (or "refugee" if you prefer) destroys his identity documents so that the Australian immigration system has no idea who the fcku it is; many boat people - particularly those from Sri Lanka and the 'stans - seem to be susceptible to TB and other noxious diseases AND they are on the public teat even before they've landed.

Maybe your reverse racist left wing attitudes blind you to reality HID :ugh::yuk::yuk:

Andu
11th Sep 2013, 06:44
The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents.HID, you and your Leftie mates always leave out the qualifier "FIRST" - these so-called refugees have the right to enter the first country of refuge. With the exception of the Tamils escaping Sri Lanka - (and their status as refugees, four years after the war OF THEIR MAKING ended, is debatable in the extreme) - every other so-called refugee entering Australia has come through any number of safe havens, usually by commercial airliner (I know this for a fact - I used to fly them into Jakarta from Dubai myself for years on end).

500N
11th Sep 2013, 06:45
bosnich

"I have worked with lots of immigrants from Europe who arrived in the 50's and 60's who could tell you stories about their treatment by the Australian Immigration Dept; after their arrival, that would make your hair curl."

I stayed in the VERY run down (almost derelict) migrant camp (wooden huts)
at Bonegilla near Albury for a few nights during an Army selection course.

Middle of winter, fcuk it was cold and families from Europe stayed in these
places for a couple of years, no insulation, little heating (an open fire), no cooling (it would get damn hot in summer).

So yes, agree, a lot of these migrants came, did it hard but got on
with it - AND helped build Australia and the infrastructure we have
now in Southern Australia.

And these Italians, Greeks, Maltese and others really did come
from bombed out shyte holes in Europe with often nothing more
than the clothes they were in. No Gov't welfare either !!!

Richo77
11th Sep 2013, 07:03
500,

A couple of posts back you quoted "as most of Australia thinks"; What makes you think YOU speak for the rest of us? Whether i agree with you or not is irrelevant, stick to YOUR beliefs and don't tell me mine if you please.

Aside from which unless we are Aboriginal are'nt WE ALL BOAT PEOPLE?

500N
11th Sep 2013, 07:10
Richo

On that point, maybe you are correct but over 50% voted in a change of Gov't.

Anyway, it's a tactic I learnt from the Greens / Lefties so might as well use it.
Since the Gov't seems to listen to the vocal minority, we might as well make
them listen to the vocal "majority". If it helps convince the Gov't to do
something we want, we win. Whether the numbers are fudged to get them to
believe it is irrelevant if the change happens.

If you want to put your views, by all means do.

500N
11th Sep 2013, 07:36
Worth a read.
Fmr Refugee Tribunal member says dump UN Treaty

The World Today - Fmr RefugeeTribunal member says dump UN Treaty 18/07/2013 (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3805755.htm)

bosnich71
11th Sep 2013, 07:46
Richo ......... I was an Aeroplane person.... and a legal one as were the vast majority and that's the problem. :)

bosnich71
11th Sep 2013, 08:05
500N .... Bonegilla etc. You could also have tried Port Adelaide which wasn't exactly the Hilton either. Old Nissan huts with only blankets between families to give some pretence at privacy was the norm there.
I believe the idea was to get those newly arrived to be so disgusted with the conditions that they just wanted to get out to anywhere they could and get on with life which was not always as quickly as they would have liked.
Is it any wonder that most of the older arrivals don't agree with methods used by some of our recent arrivals.

Clare Prop
11th Sep 2013, 11:11
I think one thing that some people find hard to understand is that we of European descent are used to fighting for our country and our freedom.

Some people find it hard to see the fit strong young men running away from whatever it is, while leaving their women and children, and in some cases our soldiers, behind to deal with it. People of the Left seem to applaud and encourage this behaviour, which our forefathers would probably see as cowardice.

And no, we are not all boat people, that's crazy, I came on a plane 20 years ago having spent seven years working on getting an Independent Migrant 126 visa. I encountered a lot of stupid pom come to take our jobs rubbish at first until they realised that I was actually working for myself and employing...Australians. The level of racism aimed at people like me in the last week has been breathtaking.

And oh how these people hate being told that an Austrian man in the 1930s was a socialist and social engineer as well and look how well that turned out.

onetrack
11th Sep 2013, 11:53
There's an awful lot of nasty, "f*ck off, we're full" attitudes in this thread.
I wonder how the immigrants who have identified themselves as such, who have settled in Australia, would feel, if they came up against this brick wall attitude, when they attempted to gain entry and acquire Australian citizenship??

Let's sit down and take a deep breath and recognise the following as inviolable truths;

1. Australia needs immigrants to continue to expand and develop.

2. Any immigrants who arrive, must, under our Immigration Laws, be of good character, and have no serious criminal record. Any previous criminal record has to be check-able.

3. Any immigrant admitted to Australia, has to come from a culture that is compatible with Australia's existing culture - so they don't become "marginalised" and "alienated".

There is no place in Australia for any followers of hard-line Islam - and there is no place in Australia for followers of Islam who believe that Allahs laws take precedence over our civil laws.
Anyone who does believe this, should immediately be stripped of their (illegally-gained) Australian citizenship and deported.
Anytime I have suggested this, I have been shouted down and told that this is illegal.
I don't see how acquiring Australian citizenship by illegal acts, can be upheld.

4. Any immigrant admitted to Australia should have to pass an education and language test, to guarantee a basic level of everyday skills, to enable them to survive in our modern and technological society.

There's nothing in our Constitution or Immigration Laws that states you have to be rich, poor or otherwise, to gain Australian citizenship. They do state you need to be of good character.

In the 1950's, if you applied to be an immigrant, all you had to do was get a sponsor who would back you up with support if you fell on hard times.
It wasn't generally hard to find a relative, or a countryman friend who would agree to do so.
My Italian neighbour Barney, who arrived in 1949, was backed by his Uncle, who had preceded him. You did need to provide check-able evidence of no serious criminal history.

Large numbers of immigrants of recent years (starting with the Lebanese "refugees" of SW Sydney) have arrived and been admitted as citizens of Australia, without background checks as to criminality.

The action of Malcolm Fraser in over-riding the Immigration officials who refused the Lebanese "refugees" admittance in 1976-77 - because the Immigration Dept was unable to check the criminal records of the Lebanese - is a treasonable action.

These Lebanese "refugees" of 1976-77 were nearly all criminals - handpicked by the Syrian Army to ensure that Lebanon was shot of the troublemakers.
Their criminal backgrounds were uncheck-able due to poor or non-existent records, or records that had been purposefully destroyed!

Since that time, this technique of failing to check the criminal records of potential immigrants has allowed too many immigrants of dubious character and ability into Australia.
This is not to say that all recent immigrants fall into this category. There are a large majority of recent immigrants who are good people, who are working hard and trying to fit in.

However, when our elected officials and senior public servants who are supposed to be ensuring that our Immigration laws and our Constitutional laws are being followed to the letter - and they are not - then that is a matter of great concern.

The problem is, that numerous "refugees" who arrive here, are "refugees" in their own country, purely because of their criminality, and their trouble-making activities at home.

I'm convinced many of these people are assisted to travel to Australia, by the people in charge of that country, to ensure that their country is shot of the troublemakers!

Do-gooders and bleeding hearts and quick-buck-seeking lawyers are overwhelming a lot of common sense and perverting the obeyance of our basic Immigration laws, to ensure that troublemakers kicked out of other countries are resettled here - without meeting the lawful criteria of "being of good character".

This is not desirable, nor conducive to our future peacefulness. Unfortunately, I have no faith that any of our political leaders, or either Left or Right Wing persuasion, have the ability, or the strength of character, to insist that we return to the 4 basic, inviolable Immigration rules, as listed above.

sisemen
11th Sep 2013, 12:30
one track - :D:D:D

SOPS
11th Sep 2013, 12:31
I will back Andu up on his post above. I too have flown AS from Dubai to Jakarta. They could try and claim asylum in any number of countries, but they push to Australia. Why? Because we where a soft touch.....I'm hoping that has changed as of last Saturday.

radeng
11th Sep 2013, 13:30
Unfortunately, the asylum seeker situation makes a bit of a mockery of the National Anthem

"For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share,"

dat581
11th Sep 2013, 14:35
That's from the second verse and it's considered unaustralian if you know it!

MagnusP
11th Sep 2013, 14:45
"For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share,"

Then let 'em have a bit of plain, and see how they get on. What it doesn't say is "We've boundless cash to share".

500N
11th Sep 2013, 15:43
One Track

Interesting post and well said.


"Do-gooders and bleeding hearts and quick-buck-seeking lawyers are overwhelming a lot of common sense and perverting the obeyance of our basic Immigration laws, to ensure that troublemakers kicked out of other countries are resettled here - without meeting the lawful criteria of "being of good character". "

Did anyone read or hear about the Sri Lankan lady who was refused entry
on the basis of an adverse ASIO report ? they had an interesting piece on
her and the appeal to this report. It seemed that this saga had been going
on for ages thanks to "Do-gooders and bleeding hearts and
quick-buck-seeking lawyers as you said above.

radeng
11th Sep 2013, 17:07
dat 581, I'm not Australian!

Magnus P, you Ozzies may actually have more cash than us poms, but that's no reason that you should be expected to hand it out to all and sundry. Especially when you consider some of the problems you've had in Oz with middle eastern 'asylum seekers' - being a bit of a bleeding heart liberal, I can't help feeling that all too often that phrase means 'free hand out seeker'.

Kodachrome
11th Sep 2013, 17:17
I will preface this by saying that I am not a ALP supporter, when I vote I make a decision based on the policies of the candidates and their performance and track record. I have voted for both major parties.

In this most recent election, Rudd was rather unfortunately the best of a bunch you wouldn't urinate on if they were on fire. Abbott's NBN is a joke, to the point where why even bother building it. Some may have disagreed with Rudd's economic policy, but it has kept us largely out of the economic collapse. Keynesian economics has proven to work, and remembering that is what brought the US out of the great depression in the form of FDR's New Deals. The LNP candidates also made several faux pas on the campaign trail, Jaymes Diaz and Fiona Scott spring to mind. On the other hand, one could argue that the Labor leadership battle was one five-year long faux pas, but those other two took it to new lows, especially Scott. It boggles the mind that she was actually elected.

Assylum Seekers. I cannot believe we are still having this discussion. We do not yet have a real problem with illegal immigration, not on the scale of what the US has. What we do have is a manufactured political hot potato, which has snowballed into a vaguely racist obsession with the issue. Can we not just find some common ground where we keep bone fide refugees whilst still maintaing an Australian cultural identity? 50,000 in the last 6 months 500N? Try 6 years mate that will be closer to the truth. Let's stick to the facts shall we? Rudd wanted to settle every single person in PNG, can't really get more hardline than that. Whilst granted the problem is growing, as it stands it is generating far too much attention (and votes) than it deserves. Racism is ridiculous too, from both sides. Calling them boat people is not racist, it's an accurate description for people who arrive on boats. Mudslimes and sh*tskins are racist terms, neither approach does their arguments any good.

Also 500N I'm afraid I am going to pick on you a little bit for saying things that are, quite frankly, mental. A couple of pages back you were talking about sinking the occasional AS boat. Are you out on day release mate?

You are on, at best, shaky ground when flinging around accusations of liberal bias in the media. Now, I am sorry but did you see some of the headlines and front pages in both the Fairfax and Murdoch publications? They were taking the mick at that point. The ABC does lean left (cr*p like this does annoy me: Sikh-ing a solution: motorbike riders want turbans not helmets - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-11/seeking-a-solution3a-sikhs-want-to-ride-with-turbans-not-helme/4951390) ) they don't run editorials favouring one party over the other as the top story.

Only fools and sheep would listen to Andrew Bolt non-ironically. Why do you need your opinions forcefed then confirmed for you? Are you incapable of researching an issue and coming to an informed conclusion? The Boltmeister gets paid to be a one trick pony, and he's as bad as Limbaugh, Beck and Sharpton over in the states, all getting paid to tell their borderline braindead audience what to think.

Finally, The Greens need a reality check.

500N
11th Sep 2013, 17:21
Kodachrome
No worries, you are entitled to your opinion :ok:

Not as nutty as the people who pull the plugs on the boat they
are on in the middle of the ocean and then are hoping to be rescued. ;)

I am quite aware of the media bias and have said so on here, which is why I,
like quite a few on here read more than one newspaper and listen to more than
one program. And I don't watch or read Andrew Bolt.

Andu
11th Sep 2013, 23:13
Kodachrome, you sayKeynesian economics has proven to work, and remembering that is what brought the US out of the great depression in the form of FDR's New Deals.I think you'd find yourself involved in heated debate in some circles with that statement. There are some who maintain that the New Deal prolonged the Great Depression and that World War Two was the savior of the US economy. (A parallel to the New Deal can be drawn in more recent times when Bob Geldorf or well-meaning people like him rush massive aid to stricken areas in Africa. The aid, while appreciated by the poor people most affected, (and even moreso by he ruling elites and warlords who make huge fortunes by ripping it off, but let's not go there) destroys the markets for local food producers, leaving them destitute as well and so prolongs the period until the area can become self-sustaining again.)

I don't agree with some of your other comments, but it's nice to see a contrary view stated clearly. Please continue to provide a contrary view here.

Back to Oz politics: I see that unemployment figures about to be announced look like being higher than usual. You can bet that Labor - and the ALPBC - will blame Tony Abbott for that.

parabellum
12th Sep 2013, 00:47
Rudd wanted to settle every single person in PNG, can't really get more hardline than that. Whilst granted the problem is growing, as it stands it is generating far too much attention (and votes) than it deserves


Rudd never expected PNG or Nauru to work as places for permanent residence for "Maritime Arrivals", he rushed around and spoke to both parties then came back to Australia and lied through his little yellow teeth telling the electorate what they wanted to hear, that he had solved the boat problem, that was enough to create a few points improvement in the polls but it didn't last, as evidenced by the continuing arrival of more boats! It was nothing more than an electioneering gambit and it didn't pay off. It wasn't policy and it wasn't hard line, it was pure BS.

Ogre
12th Sep 2013, 04:32
Onetrack; don't want to contradict but I certainly had to provide police certificates and evidence of no criminal record when I applied to become an Aussie, and it was checked.

When I took the test to get citizenship I had to answer three questions, 1) have you ever been expelled from a country? 2) was something about being a member of an organisation that would impact the security of Australia, but 3) was a cracker.

It said "Have you ever been a member of an armed force, police force, militia, ...... or trained in the use of arms and explosives"? The answer to the first two was "No", but having had some military experience I answered "Yes" to the third. This came as a bit of a shock as they hadn't had anyone answer yes before, so I had to provide a stack of details (different funny story!)

The trouble is that those who harp on about human rights and helping refugees don't stop to think that not everyone is doing it because they are honest decent chaps who have fallen on hard times. Some of them are bad boys and girls!

heated ice detector
12th Sep 2013, 04:35
Now onto important issues...
what kind of a man is Tony Abbott
Obama conversation re Syria
"But Mr Abbott also said the United States would have Australia's strongest support if military force was required".
All the way by the look of it just like LBJ
there goes the baby bonus!

reynoldsno1
12th Sep 2013, 05:37
Only two words you need to know - Julie Bishop ....

onetrack
12th Sep 2013, 06:15
The trouble is that those who harp on about human rights and helping refugees don't stop to think that not everyone is doing it because they are honest decent chaps who have fallen on hard times. Some of them are bad boys and girls!

This is the crux of the refugee/boat people question - how to sort out the baddies, from those who are genuine, peaceful people, who can contribute gainfully to our society - rather than being a burden by constantly indulging in law-breaking activity, and welfare-cheating.

The criminal background and unlawful activities checks are about the only way of checking people out to see if they will be of benefit to the nation and settle in satisfactorily.
If these areas can't be checked or verified - and the person appears genuine, then there has to be a "probation" period where they are given the chance to prove themselves worthy of Australian citizenship.
Citizenship should not be handed out willy-nilly, and come free in every packet of Weeties. It's a privilege that needs to be earned.

There's a good background article on the News.com.au site today about the boat people and the people smugglers, that really reveals what is going on, in complete detail.
There's a lot of poor desperate buggers who have done little more than offend a tinpot dictator, and now they are reduced to "asylum-seeker" level to try and better their lot. There but for the Grace of God, go any of us. :(

Video: Angry asylum seekers demand money back from people smugglers | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world-news/video-angry-asylum-seekers-demand-money-back-from-people-smugglers/story-fndir2ev-1226717227977)

bosnich71
12th Sep 2013, 06:59
One track ... " by constantly indulging in law breaking activity".

Forgive me, if I'm wrong, but haven't those who have flown into Jakarta .. as told by bloggers here ... and then got on a boat, destroyed any paperwork etc. broken the law.
To add that they have jumped the queue and those poor sods ,who don't have loads of money, are still in some camp somewhere and going backwards in their efforts to reach Australia legally. That is the reason so many in Australia do not look favourably on boat people. Those of left leaning persuasion like to label those who not agree as "racist" whilst not giving a tinkers cuss about those left behind in Indonesia and such like places . Sarah 2 Dads being on such.
P.s. on second thoughts Sarah isn't really like that. She would much rather open the doors completely to anyone wishing to rock up one weekend. :ugh:

MTOW
12th Sep 2013, 07:03
Citizenship should not be handed out willy-nilly, and come free in every packet of WeetiesIt used not to be, until Gough Whitlam reduced the residency period to a ridiculous two years to gain quick votes for Labor. Now we have tens of thousands of 'Australians' (dual citizens) living back in their home countries whilst drawing Australian pensions of one sort or another - until the *** hits the fan and then they dredge out their Aussie passports and demand a Qantas jet 'home', as 25,000 Lebanese/'Australians' did when the Israelis invaded. I understand that the Canadians repatriated(!) a similar number of Lebanese/Canadians to Canada at the same time.

When I lived in the Middle East, there were many (and I mean many) 'Australians' working there who had spent the minimum time in Australia (just long enough to get the passport) and then moved overseas, almost every one of them leaving the wife and children in Oz. (Most that I met were Sri Lankan, but they were by no means the only ones.)

I was never game to ask how many of those wives back in Oz were on the deserted wife's pension and the children getting assistance with their education from the Australian taxpayer, but suspect the number was quite large.

Whitlam cheapened Australian citizenship to the point where many (I accept, not all, but a significant number) of our new citizens see it as nothing but a convenient safety net and a means of gaining access to endless welfare.

500N
12th Sep 2013, 07:36
KRudd showing Abbott around the Lodge today :O

"We used to have quite a wine collection but piss pots Julia
and that psuedo first bloke Tim had some bikie mates round
and drank it all"

"You'll have to excuse the burn out mark on the lawn,
that was Tim doing a wheelie"

I16
12th Sep 2013, 10:00
Abbott to Rudd today " what is significant about the two long lines in the lawn?"

I would like to answer your question in two parts.
The first with a two line answer, "the first line is made by the left rear wheel
and the second line by the right rear wheel."
The second part of my answer "is all the green bits left are from that other mob."

MagnusP
12th Sep 2013, 10:11
radeng, that's the point I was trying to make. I'm not Australian, BTW, but our younger daughter is, born in Coonabarabran when we lived there in the 80s, so we continue to take a keen interest in Australian issues. Her boyfriend's father has a building business near Brisbane, and we suspect the two of them might move to Australia one day. :(

bosnich71
12th Sep 2013, 12:59
Read our local, Werribee... Julia's old area of operations .... weekly newspaper tonight and there is an article in it ref. homeless persons, i.e. living on the street.. The number, at the moment, is around 528 !
Call me racist etc. but I would have a lot more sympathy for illegals and Sarah 2 Dads opinions if we could at least make a dent in that figure first. At the moment it's rising steadily.

500N
12th Sep 2013, 13:00
bosnich

Is that 528 in Werribee or Melbourne ?
(I haven't read the local yet, it is still in the letter box :O)

Agree re fix this number first.

Neptunus Rex
12th Sep 2013, 13:45
Back to Tony Abbott.
This week Australia won the first 50/50 one day match, beating England by 88 runs.
Yesterday the second 50/50 was rained off, but not before England was drifting down at 59 for three wickets.
So, under Tony Abbott's Premiership, Australia has not lost a cricket match!

500N
12th Sep 2013, 23:47
TA is going to have an interesting time with Indo with what they
have come out with. They even mentioned "Indonesian sovereignty" :O

We should line up all the patrol boats at the 12.5 mile limit
or along our SAR limit and stop all the boats from entering.


Also, it looks like the Coalition will get over 90 seats :rolleyes:

onetrack
13th Sep 2013, 03:23
500N - I'd like to know just where you're going to acquire this 1000 flotilla Navy from, to carry out your suggested refugees "containment" action - not to even mention the cost of this "containment".

Australia = 22M population

Indonesia = 220M population

Methinks you could make a good politician, with silly ideas such as this suggestion.

http://www.ga.gov.au/image_cache/GA3746.pdf

500N
13th Sep 2013, 03:28
OneTrack

I wasn't just thinking the Patrol Boats.

You have aircraft patrolling already.
You have radar.
Combine those three things together, even if you only cover
the main area boats come from, it might help. After all, we know
where they are heading !

We have Amphib Assault ships where other craft can be launched from
including Helos.

Hey, I'm thinking laterally.

bosnich71
13th Sep 2013, 07:11
500N .... ref. homeless.

The Star refers to 600 youths ! at the moment. That's in Werribee.

Web site KUC org.com lists over 50,000 between the ages of 12 to 25 in danger of being or actually homeless Australia wide.
They break down the figures as follows .......

12% Indigenous.
46% Female............ where are the Emilies when you need them ?
56% Male.
11% Have mental issues.
59% In Metropolitan areas.
41% In Country areas.

500N
13th Sep 2013, 07:14
bosnich

Thanks. I still haven't read it.

I wonder if that figure includes the Long grassers (Aboriginies)
up in Darwin, I reckon you could find a few thousand in Darwin
every night.


So we have 50,000 homeless but we manage to find millions of $$$
for an AS problem which includes housing, accom and welfare.

We have our priorities the wrong way round.

onetrack
13th Sep 2013, 07:26
You may be thinking laterally, but I don't think you have much idea of the vastness of the Oceans surrounding Australia - and the limitations of radar, and visual sightings ability from aircraft and patrol boats.
Despite a pretty intensive patrol regime of patrol boats and constant aircraft patrolling, we still have refugee boats regularly sailing straight into Australian ports (Geraldton) or making Australian landfall, undetected.

Even in WW2, with an intensive Coastwatch and military patrolling effort, the Japs regularly made landfall in Australia, undetected.

No, we need to approach the refugee boat problem on a much more multi-pronged approach.
Abbott and his ministers are going to have to produce some much more innovative approaches than silly ideas such as "buying up the boats", or telling the Indonesians what we want them to do (and that's currently going over like a lead balloon with the Indos).

Too many of the refugees are "economic" refugees. They have sizeable sums of money and are able to pay people smugglers $10,000 or more for transportation.

Nailing the people smugglers is a good start. I'd like to see laws passed that allow Australian authorities to extradite people smugglers and jail them and asset-strip them, as we do now with other criminals (after all, the U.S. chases down and nails anyone who indulges in criminal offences against the U.S., from overseas).

Secondly, making it much harder for economic refugees to become Australian citizens. As I previously stated, a lengthy period of probation before issuing citizenship sounds good to me. Substantially tightened immigration requirements also sounds good to me.

There's a reputed 43 million refugees world-wide annually, we can't possibly accept them all, we can only take a few thousand annually.
Let's be highly selective - because no country in the world admits refugees willy-nilly and gives them citizenship, without a substantial amount of restrictions.

bosnich71
13th Sep 2013, 08:14
One track .... " no country in the world admits refugees willy nilly and gives them citizenship".

Sorry but successive British governments seem to have made an art form of just that since WW2. .... and it has spread to others in Europe also.