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View Full Version : The "intelligence" of armed police officers.


doubleu-anker
8th Sep 2013, 12:05
This takes the biscuit.

Should the officers in question, be allowed near a firearm? I would say no.

BBC News - Police 'challenged Prince Andrew' at Buckingham Palace (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24005811)

Shack37
8th Sep 2013, 12:13
Should the officers in question, be allowed near a firearm? I would say no.


If you're referring to their eyesight in not recognising him, you may have a point.

doubleu-anker
8th Sep 2013, 12:19
:ok: :D:D:D :}

IB4138
8th Sep 2013, 12:20
but...........Was the Prince returning from a fancy dress party in his Lord Lucan costume and mask?

west lakes
8th Sep 2013, 12:23
I would have been more concerned if they had failed to challenge him to be honest.

Just because they saw someone who looked like a member of the royal family doesn't mean that person is who they look like without obtaining positive identification.

dat581
8th Sep 2013, 12:24
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the coppers realised who he was! I wonder what he said to them... :}

Checkboard
8th Sep 2013, 12:26
You're saying officers SHOULDN'T challenge people they don't recognise walking around Buckingham Palace in the dark?

radeng
8th Sep 2013, 12:28
But surely on his return to the palace, all police should have been warned that he was there. That's one reason why they have things called 'radio'.

If that happened to his father, the coppers involved would doubtless have been on the receiving end of an earful! They may have been, of course...

doubleu-anker
8th Sep 2013, 12:31
west lakes

Are saying Andy should have been displaying ID?? I don't see Cameron or Obama displaying ID. Andy was around before and is likely to be there long after they have left the seen.

UniFoxOs
8th Sep 2013, 12:32
You're saying officers SHOULDN'T challenge people they don't recognise walking around Buckingham Palace in the dark?


As sunset was around 1930 (BST) this week I don't think it would have been that dark at 1800.

Checkboard
8th Sep 2013, 12:34
In the shadows of the walls and grounds of the Palace?

west lakes
8th Sep 2013, 12:35
No I'm not saying he should display anything!

Just that I consider it correct that they ask for ID, considering an intruder had been arrested in the grounds 2 days previously!
Did they see his face initially or approach from behind, we don't know. It appears all they did was ask him to confirm his ID.

Just as I'm sure had had to every time he went onto a naval base when in the navy, just as I'm sure his Nephew does every time he goes onto RAF Valley.

Or to put it another way it was a "right side" error as it could have been in imposter

llondel
8th Sep 2013, 12:35
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the coppers realised who he was! I wonder what he said to them...

At least in public he's actually got a very laid-back personality (having been in his presence a while back). There was no official comment from his side, and it wouldn't surprise me if he saw the funny side of it, given the inevitable reaction (such as this thread) when the news leaked out.

Don't forget he was in the navy and is probably used to security and understands the need for it, especially after the recent intruder incident.

Vercingetorix
8th Sep 2013, 12:48
Guess that's why their nickname is "Plod".

doubleu-anker
8th Sep 2013, 12:50
west lakes.

Point taken

Hard to know where to draw the line I guess.

Be interesting to read your reaction, if it were the Queen herself. challenged. Cant be too careful can we??

west lakes
8th Sep 2013, 12:55
Be interesting to read your reaction, if it were the Queen herself. challenged.

It would be no different (in fact I'm sure I recall it has happened)

SilsoeSid
8th Sep 2013, 13:12
Perhaps the question what he was doing there is a bit more appropriate than questioning the actions of officers who saw someone who probably shouldn't have been there. Heaven forbid that the Prince may even have been facing away from them at the time of the challenge. Remember, this was 2 days after a 'real intruder' was found in the Palace.

Being in town on personal business and popping into Grannies for the night when she's not there, must be different the World over. Mmmm, some of us paid for the Princes stay at the 'Buck House B&B' that night!

Your comments about firearms are irellivant and are nothing more than sensationalism, as they weren't even drawn! Well disciplined rather than gung ho in my opinion. But don't let that stop you having your rather ridiculous interpretation of this incident.

I remember the good old days during the Cold War when people were bollocked for not checking CO/OC/RSM's etc ID cards and assuming that because they looked like who they should be, they were.

mixture
8th Sep 2013, 13:17
Your comments about firearms are irellivant and are nothing more than sensationalism, as they weren't even drawn! Well disciplined rather than gung ho in my opinion.

Its also the UK, not the USA. In the USA if he was wondering around the White House gardens, would have probably been shot first, questions asked later. :E

doubleu-anker
8th Sep 2013, 13:19
Fair enough Sid

If the said officers were suspicious of the "intruder", why weren't the guns drawn?

RedhillPhil
8th Sep 2013, 13:25
This just confirms to be what I've always thought which is Prince Andrew is an arrogant Barsteward. He should be grateful that he was challenged so soon after yet another palace security incident. I was always taught that one of the first rules of security is "never assume" when it comes to looks.

uffington sb
8th Sep 2013, 13:28
Grannies?.....

cattletruck
8th Sep 2013, 13:44
and popping into Grannies for the night when she's not there

Probably the best time as it's the only time he can get to play with the crown jewels.:}

...crown...robe...guilded gate.

VP959
8th Sep 2013, 13:46
This just confirms to be what I've always thought which is Prince Andrew is an arrogant Barsteward.

I had the misfortune to be around him when he was a Midshipman and have to say he didn't come across as being a particularly nice bloke, although he did turn out to be a pretty good pilot by all accounts.

Krystal n chips
8th Sep 2013, 13:56
" when people were bollocked for not checking CO/OC/RSM's etc ID cards and assuming that because they looked like who they should be, they were

No assumption needed.....it wasn't difficult to remember the arrogant / pretentious and life's natural anal orifices / military cabbages...after the first meeting.

angels
8th Sep 2013, 14:08
Paul Burrows (sp), Lady Di's valet/butler who spilt the Royal Family beans bigtime said Andrew was an obnoxious ****, er edited to add I merely said twit with an 'a'. Blimey!

One of Burrows' duties at the Palace was to open Andrew's curtains in the morning(!!). Apparently he used to f and blind at him -- especially if he'd had a skinful the night before.

I assume he was (is) a good pilot but then not all pilots are wonderful human beings are they?? :eek:

uffington sb
8th Sep 2013, 14:08
SilsoeSid.

And I suppose they really looked just like their photo on the ID card!
The best means of identification is recognition. If you know them, don't check them.

And I think you'll find that Granny died a few years ago.

radeng
8th Sep 2013, 15:08
Trouble is, we don't know the full story. It goes from 'a challenge' to 'at gun point, told to lie down'. The police SHOULD have been told that he had entered the palace and so know to look out for him: that way, they should then be aware and more careful.

But we don't know the full story - and probably never will.

SilsoeSid
8th Sep 2013, 15:32
If the said officers were suspicious of the "intruder", why weren't the guns drawn?


Not being a firearms officer, I can only suggest that on the warm sunny evening in question, the man seen dressed in trousers and shirt, taking in the evening sun and facing the other way, wasn't assessed as an immediate threat.

And I suppose they really looked just like their photo on the ID card!
The best means of identification is recognition. If you know them, don't check them.

Ok Uffing sb, next time I have access to a time machine, I'll use that as an excuse ..... didn't work last time when the SSM asked why they weren't asked for their ID cards :rolleyes: Even going back into camp after a night out when your room mate was on stag, you habitually showed your ID card. Simply because if the guard commander saw anyone just walking in, matey would at best get a "who was that", but more often as not, get a bollocking!


And I think you'll find that Granny died a few years ago.

Oh yea, what's the saying these days .... My bad :ouch:

Tankertrashnav
8th Sep 2013, 15:58
Bit of thread drift, although not entirely unconnected

Mate of mine was a met superintendent working on royal security some years back. One day when driving along one of the many narrow tarmac roads in Windsor Great Park he saw an unfamiliar vehicle coming in the opposite direction. He kept to the road and thought he'd have a closer look as he passed it then radio for someone to check up on the two occupants.

As it got up to him it was forced to swerve onto the grass to pass him, at which point my chum looked across to check out the occupants. The car was being driven by HM herself, accompanied by one of her close protection officers, who had a huge grin on his face. Subsequently as he learned from the close protection guy, the Queen had just said "That man ----- who does he think he is?"

At which point, as my chum said, he kissed goodbye to his MVO!

4mastacker
8th Sep 2013, 16:08
Perhaps it was part of a test to check whether or not the officers were alert and doing their job properly. How many times has that kind of thing happened to guards during an exercise when they were armed only with a self-loading pickaxe handle and CPX rounds? IMHO, a non-story.

SilsoeSid
8th Sep 2013, 16:18
The best means of identification is recognition. If you know them, don't check them.

Field day for 'Lookey Likeys' then;
Royal Family Lookalikes, Impersonators and Doubles (http://www.lookalikes.info/our-lookalikes/royals)
Kate Middleton and Prince William Look-Alikes Prank Royal Baby Fans Outside London Hospital (http://uk.eonline.com/news/440733/kate-middleton-and-prince-william-look-alikes-prank-royal-baby-fans-outside-london-hospital)

.... or even a new sideline in the criminal world for Mike Yarwood & Rory Bremner :ok:


RIGHT!, with all this anti-Andrew malarkey going on, 30 years+ have now passed ..... who sabotaged his parachute back in '78 ? :suspect:

Prince Andrew gets tangled in parachute after jumping (http://youtu.be/M_48JYIMrEg)
@0:45

West Coast
8th Sep 2013, 16:20
Much ado about nothing. These chaps are guilty of not recognizing Andy perhaps. As such they challenged him as they should. I would sleep better knowing the police guarding me aren't making assumptions and instead are positively identifying me and the other residents of the palace.

Lon More
8th Sep 2013, 16:57
would this have ben around the same time as there was much faffing around on the M25 at the Dartford Crossing?
If so I imagine there would have been a somewhat higher State of Alert than normal.

VP959
8th Sep 2013, 17:00
and just after an intruder had been caught inside the grounds of Buck House.

Shack37
8th Sep 2013, 17:34
Ok Uffing sb, next time I have access to a time machine, I'll use that as an
excuse ...


Especially as the bloody Doctor keeps changeing identities.

ZH875
8th Sep 2013, 19:53
Don't check anybody, remove all security and save a fortune

Let the stuck up **** get whatever anyone wants to throw at him, most people won't care.

obgraham
8th Sep 2013, 20:20
I still haven't heard just where was the bloke? Skulking around in the bushes? Peeing on the roses?
Seems odd that he was out there alone, no accompanying bodyguard.

VP959
8th Sep 2013, 21:40
When working at a certain large helo base, not wholly unconnected with HRH Midshipman Prince Andrew (as he insisted he be called at the time), we had car passes that looked rather like the front of a Players No 6 packet. The NPs on the gate never bothered to check ID cards, only car passes.

I decided to test the system and drove in and out for a few days using the torn off cover of a Players No 6 fag packet as a car pass. Worked a treat, but as this was at the height of the Cold War and IRA terrorist threat I decided I'd pop into the Master at Arms and report that I'd been able to get through the gate a few times using a fag packet as a pass.

Rather unsurprisingly I found that I was the one in hot water. Apparently me "testing the system" was a greater security breach than the NPs not bothering to properly check car passes or IDs.

cargosales
9th Sep 2013, 02:57
Paul Burrows (sp), Lady Di's valet/butler who spilt the Royal Family beans bigtime said Andrew was an obnoxious ****, er edited to add I merely said twit with an 'a'. Blimey!

One of Burrows' duties at the Palace was to open Andrew's curtains in the morning(!!). Apparently he used to f and blind at him -- especially if he'd had a skinful the night before.

I assume he was (is) a good pilot but then not all pilots are wonderful human beings are they?? :eek:

Interesting .. Some years ago I went to Holyrood for a very posh/formal dinner where my boss was invited to be on the 'top table' where 'a certain gentleman' was the 'guest of honour', while I was in the 'cheap seats'

My boss complained afterwards that booze was absolutely banned on said 'top table', even wine with the meal.

I've no idea how good said gentleman is as a helicopter pilot, even if he did serve with considerable distinction 'Down South' but it's probably fair to say that he needs to alert the minders when he goes walkabout in the grounds of his Mum's place

CS

500N
9th Sep 2013, 03:34
"My boss complained afterwards that booze was absolutely banned on said 'top table', even wine with the meal."

Why may I ask was wine banned ?

He's not a tea totaller is he ?

alisoncc
9th Sep 2013, 03:49
Then they got it wrong anyway. It was me wearing one of these:

http://www.tescoparty.com/images/masks/royal-family-queen-prince-phillip-prince-charles-MASK376_PS22.JPG

tony draper
9th Sep 2013, 08:28
Could have been worse.:uhoh:
107-Year-Old Man, Monroe Isadore, Shot Dead By SWAT Team In Arkansas (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/08/monroe-isadore-shot-dead_n_3889930.html)