Announcements - Do you care who does them?

[wiggy]

Ladies/Gents, a question if I may, please bare with me.....

You've got on your flight, doors are shut, it's time to go .......and nothing happens. Delay builds up, after, ummm, say 20 minutes you get an announcement from the chief steward/stewardess that there's a delay and are given some vague details ..... 20 minutes later more of the same from the chief steward/stewardess....and so it goes on with the odd announcement from the Cabin crew but not a word from either of the pilots on the flight deck - FWIW you do depart eventually but not a word about the delay from the front end.

Would you find the lack of direct information from the Flight crew acceptable or do you always expect to hear something from the captain in the event of a significant ground delay?

I'd appreciate your thoughts - it's just a little thought experiment, honest :E

[strake]

I'm pretty sure that for all the commercial flying I have been on as Pax, I wouldn't be able to recall one occasion where a delay as you describe has been explained/apologised for by anyone other than the fight deck.
Come to think of it, that goes for any type of delay apart from once, when we were waiting for 30 minutes on an early morning arrival BA747 for stairs/buses at Heathrow on the first anniversary of 911, which seemed to have the airport in a bit of chaos.

[aergid]

Hi

Sounds like this was CTOT delay (Calculated Time of Taxi or SLOT). Given either locally by ATC or Euro-control (if Europe).
Usually all delays are announced by the FD and usually apologies follow again by the FD.
I suppose it depends if the Captain is not very happy with the delay or he has caused it and decides to let the Cabin Manager do the dirty business in this case.
:ok:

[wiggy]

Thanks for your thoughts (and they tie in with what I thought I might hear)

...Sorry if I'm being a bit vague - I have my reasons :oh:. The situation I describe (a significant ground delay but no announcements at all from the flight deck) is imaginary but I understand it might start happening at an airline near you and me before very long...just interested in what folks thought of the idea.

[Gibon2]

Like strake, I think I've only ever heard such announcements from the flight deck.

No one likes to hear them, of course, but a frank, knowledgeable and straightforward explanation, with some specific details but not too technical, goes a long way to soothing the rapidly mounting feelings of rage and frustration as one resigns oneself to missed connections and other tedious inconveniences. As such, an announcement from the flight deck has a lot more credibility than one from the cabin crew. Presumably the cabin crew would have had to be informed by the flight deck anyway, so what is to be gained by passing it to the SLF second-hand, instead of directly?

In general terms, I could put it this way: for matters concerning the movements of the plane (or lack thereof), we expect to hear from those who move it. For matters concerning what goes on inside the plane (including the matter of how to get outside quickly) we expect to hear from those who look after the inside.

[T250]

Sounds like this was CTOT delay (Calculated Time of Taxi or SLOT).

CTOT does not stand for TAXI it stands for Calculated TAKE OFF Time. :rolleyes:

[crewmeal]

The worst PA is when someone announces ' an operational delay' It tells you nothing!

[Hotel Tango]

Or, "this delay is due to the late arrival of the aircraft from.....". So why was it late arriving from its previous sector then?

[wiggy]

why was it late arriving from its previous sector then?

Fair point - in all honesty we don't always know.

[radeng]

I had one delay at Dallas because of lightning, heavy rain and wind. We had got to the end of the taxiway and were next in line when the Captain said we would wait as ATC wouldn't let us take off until the storm had passed. And then he added "I'm sure you would all be much rather down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here".

No PAX complaints at all.......

[PAXboy]

Slight thread drift/

I recall departing Johannesburg in mid summer as a usual afternoon storm was passing through. We had to swap ends of the runway and were trundling down the taxy way in HEAVY rain. It was obviously going to be a bouncy departure - we were in a BAe Jestream 41! :\ [19 pax, 2 up front and 1 in the cabin]

As we lined up, the flight deck warned that it would be bouncy but the storm was going in a different direction to us and we'd be clear in five or ten minutes. So, with plenty of warning we left.

At the first big 'dip and waggle' a woman in the cabin screamed loudly. So you can tell them all you like and someone will get surprised!

[Basil]

At the first big 'dip and waggle'
Erm, are you sure that her exclamation was weather related? :E

Anyway, when they have time, I'd rather have the info from the captain for the simple reasons that he's closer to the communications and may explain technical points more clearly. If it's something about slides out of action and doors unusable or reduced CC numbers then the senior CC member will know about the rules and requirements to explain that.

[Leftofcentre2009]

From what i remember of my Air Law exams - doesnt the Captain have to re-file and submit the flightplan after a 45minute delay in departure?

[peakcrew]

To answer the original question, on the few occasions that the flight I was on was delayed, the notification and any explanation came from the flight deck, as I would expect. Of course, sometimes the CC have been asked for clarification by some passengers, usually due to language difficulties from what I have seen. I can see no reason why this should change - what would it add to anything?

However, I think I have only had four such flights - one due to the pilot's seat inexplicably running to the end of its runners just before the point of no return (I was in row A and heard a "thump" from the bulkhead just before an emergency stop!:ooh:); a second because another flight was in difficulties and hence delayed everything else for a while; a third due to a go-around at Brussels in horrible gusty crosswinds (it felt like we eventually landed at 45 degrees to the line of the runway, and on the wheels on one side only!:\); and, last week, failure of an airbridge to move towards the plane when we got to it. In each case the person from the FD was professional and humorous, as I would expect.

[easyflyer83]

If the pilots are not busy then there's no reason why they can't make a quick PA and in most situations this is the case. Sometimes however they can be very busy on the phone to op's, ATC, handling agents etc devising contingencies or what not and so this PA maybe delegated to the CM/purser. Indeed, a good CM/purser will offer to make it if he/she sees how busy the guys in ye flightdeck are. Quite often it isn't anything too technical and the information can be relayed by most senior cabin crew in an effective and credible manner, after all it's probably a delay that they have experienced before. But, like I say, a PA from te Captain never hurts. Then again most pax don't care who makes the PA aslong as they are furnished with the info.

At my airline extended delay information is given to pax every 20 mins regardless of whether the Captain has made a PA or not.

[wiggy]

Thanks everybody.

The reason I posed the original question was that a certain company has just made it mandatory for any "delay PA's", whatever the reason, to be made by the Senior Cabin Crew Member and that the Flight Crew should remain silent on the issue. As I understand it general opinion amongst the Flight Crew at that airline is that this is contrary to customer expectations and perhaps not a good thing, especially if the Cabin Crew Member has to explain a technical problem....."send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance" :oh:

...I was (and still am) interested in whether the paying public has a strong opinion on the matter.

[easyflyer83]

Thanks for the extra info.

I broadly agree with you. Although one or two technically minded seniors could credibly convey a message regarding a technical PA it's best it comes from the flight deck. With other delays then I do think the cabin crew are perfectly capable of making a PA and most pax really don't care who makes it anyway. Mind you, you always get one or two full of self importance who must have it from the top. I once had a pax who demanded to see the captain when a crew member gave them an out of date tub of Pringles.

But I really do see the logic in silencing the flight crew. Sorry if I seem like I'm on the fence.

[Eboy]

It's nice but not necessary to hear from the flight deck. Strong opinion? No.

[PAXboy]

I don't have a strong opinion about it - but my guess is that a very considerable number of pax will.

They know the pilots ar ein charge and expect the pilot to tell them what is what about the flight. They expect the CC to tell them about safety and food. It does not matter whether that is 'right' or 'wrong' - but it is what the airlines have fostered since the first cabin PA system was installed. Any carrier who wants to change that need to think carefully.

One possibility is for an announcement about the journey that is going to be made by senior CC to start: "The Captain has asked me to tell you ..."

[ReggieMoto]

I recently experienced a delayed pushback from the gate at BWI for a 75-80 minute flight to MHT. The delay was about 40 minutes. The plane was a 737-700. We heard no information regarding the delay until a gate employee -- not the flight crew -- came onto the plane and provided the explanation: there was a weight and balance issue and they required the last 6 people who boarded to deplane, presumably along with their luggage. All well and good.

Curious about two things: why wouldn't an explanation have come sooner rather than later and from the flight crew? Also, how is "weight and balance" determined, manually (ramp personnel) or via some onboard mechanism that could determine the weight and balance parameters?

[Denti]

Depends on airline in question. In "my" outfit weight and balance is done in two external centralized load control centers that will then send the information on to the flight crew, and in case of problems to the gate staff as well. It is quite often the case that the gate staff has the information first. However usually the boarding system on its own will keep the plane in trim by opening or closing of seat rows during check in, both via the internet or at the counter.

[ExXB]

I'm not looking for an apology, I'm looking for a good estimate of the delay. Please, any pilots out there, please promise low and deliver high, not promise high and deliver low.

i.e. If you say it's going to be 20 minutes and if you go at 15 that's GREAT. If you say 10 minutes and go at 15 that is {expletive deleted}!

One exception though, and we had it last night on the Squeezy flight from BRS. We were on finals, gear down, when engines spooled up and gear/flaps retracted. Within a few seconds the flight attendant came on with a short message that we were doing a go-around (can't recant exact message, but it was clear) and that the captain would let us know what was happening as soon as he was able to. On previous go-rounds on other airlines it was just silence besides the know-it-all pax speculating on what was happening. Now I know the flight attendant had no information on what was going on, but the message was calming and cut the fear factor. Well done Squeezy!

Also it would be nice to hear something if we are not going to pushback by STD +/- 5. Your best guess plus a few will keep us happy.