RAF Leuchars air show, USAF no show?

[sandozer]

Looking at the "What`s on?" schedules, what has happened to the USAF?
First time that I can recall no visitors flying or static. Good support from most of Europe though.

[Tashengurt]

Sequestration?


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Broadsword***]

Disassociation?

[c130jage]

Sequestration, Same as at RIAT !!

[Al R]

All sequestration cuts are equal, etc.

So how much does it cost for President Obama to golf? - Binghamton Political Buzz | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/so-how-much-does-it-cost-for-president-obama-to-golf)

[gr4techie]

I remember going to airshows at RAF Finningley as a child. The static displays had so many different aircraft types that it seemed to fill the entire length of the taxiway / unused runway. It seemed not just every aircraft type had a static but every squadron turned up! I remember line after line of the same aircraft type in different markings.
The flying programme was constant non-stop all day, every type of aircraft in the RAF with a display team...the original Vulcan display, Jag, Harrier, Nimrod, Tornado Air Display Variant, maybe Buccaneer and Phantom? Several other nations also sent display aircraft. Lots of static displays such as Rapier and the hangars were full of stuff.

Today, airshows or families day seem a sorry state of affairs, with hardly anything there.

[Broadsword***]

So now Obama's golf is to blame for the USAF no-show.

I don't recall anyone ever making an issue about the cost of Reagan's golf rounds or either of the Bush's for that matter.

As ever, the Right will resort to anything to divert attention from the sequestration mess their obstructionism has helped to create.

[serf]

Maybe they looked at the weather forecast.....

[fallmonk]

Such a shame , always good to see the buff there , plus usually a few F15's and tanker , and usually the airmen/woman dress up for the crowd a few years ago they was in Star Wars uniforms , kids loved it

[SOSL]

The various British Empire air shows, during the first half of the 20th century, were impressive, to say the least! Even up to 1962 there were huge numbers of exciting aircraft and massive formations (or so I'm told). I'd be interested to learn if the USAF were invited to participate in those.

My own experience of air shows between 1970 and 1989, at Finningley, Leuchars, Church Fenton and Abingdon (I never made it to a Biggin Hill air show, more's the pity) was that lots of European air forces and the USAF all contributed flying and static displays. Lots and lots of people turned up and traffic clogged up all the access roads for miles around, both on the way in and on the way out. Nonetheless, everyone seemed to enjoy and have fun.

The yanks were great on the ground and in the air (and in the mess). Lets hope the RAF and the USAF don't lose touch with each other.

Rgds SOS

[incubus]

I'll not be lamenting their absence. I'm apathetic towards their presence on the ground (though the odd F15 adds some variety) and always considered their airborne contributions to be a waste of programme time.

[sandozer]

The static display will certainly have a huge gap in it, normally a few US aircraft taking up space there.
My last memory of the USAF last year was the B-52 disappearing into the early evening sky . B-52 FSC_8621 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandozer/7996982663/in/set-72157624815976825)

[SASless]

Always the drag on a good party are you Incubus?

You lot have to bring half your Air Force to put on a show these days so I assume it shall be more like a Club Open Day than an Air Show.

You will have a Black Jet, a Tornado, and a Typhoon putting on the same routine....perhaps a Turbo Prop fly over head and the Chinook putting on a smashing good routine....then call it a day unless the Red show up then you will consider a Great Day.

Now when all the Europeans show up....and the Americans with their craft...added to the Home Team....now that is a Show.

Shame our Politicians cannot get the bills paid and our folks have to sit at home....granted this time they are probably briefing for some cross country flying to Syria.

[walbut]

Ah the good old days.

I remember one of the most impressive, and eerie moments from the Finningley airshow used to be the Vulcan scamble. A few minutes silence followed by the message coming over the tannoy, 'This is the bomber controller, B flight Finningley, scramble, scramble, scramble.' Then 16 Olympus engines started simultaneously and 4 Vulcans thundered off down the runway to disappear off into the blue (or more often grey). Wonderful, just thank god it never happend for real.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Sequestration is the cause - USAF participation in public events was cut in March 2013 for the remainder of the FY:

Budget Cuts Ground USAF Thunderbirds And Eliminates Support To Air Shows | Ottawa Citizen (http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2013/03/02/budget-cuts-ground-usaf-thunderbirds-and-cuts-support-to-air-shows/)

MCAS Yuma still managed to put on a very worthwhile event with USMC assets, including MV-22, AV-8B, F-5E and privately owned classic fighters flying and all current inventory types in the static display including F-35B, UH-1Y and AH-1Z.

However, Aviation Nation 2013 at Nellis AFB, normally an excellent free show with flawless organization from which RIAT could learn a lot (free parking at the Speedway and a fleet of 50+ x 50-PAX coaches for shuttle - no queues to approach and park - on the base within 15 minutes of parking including security check and shuttle) is cancelled. As Las Vegas loses about $18M in business due to the cancellation, a consortium of business owners was trying to come up with some kind of sponsorship deal but it was obvious from the outset that the DoD bureaucracy could never be overcome in the 8 months available.

[gr4techie]

Maybe the USAF will turn up if Mr President makes the draw fae getting a place playing on St Andrews Old Course?

[Speedywheels]

........and ,unfortunately, no Vulcan this year :ooh:

[WH904]

I remember going to airshows at RAF Finningley as a child. The static displays had so many different aircraft types that it seemed to fill the entire length of the taxiway

Memory does play tricks on us. I attended every Finningley show from about 1965 onwards and if one looks at the number of aircraft that were on display, it was often surprisingly small. It was only in latter years that the numbers swelled, but even then it wasn't much. I think the problem is that there is no longer the variety that used to give the impression of size. Sadly, all the great aircraft are gone and costs/operations prevent what is left from being on display.

Leuchars must have been struggling from the start with this year's show with no USAF, hardly any RAF and not much from Nato either. The weather forecast, combined with the Vulcan's no-show seem to suggest it will be quite a damp squib.

Unfortunately it's just the way it is these days. Even the mighty RIAT is a feeble shadow of its former self now. Enthusiasts still drool with delight over the "exciting" line-up but in reality it's mostly a (small) line-up of static aircraft, most of which are transports and tankers. All very nice but hardly worth walking down the street for, never mind a cross-country drive. The days of Phantom or Hunter line-ups, SR-71s, Russian machines and all the rest are long gone.

I'm surprised that many die-hard enthusiasts still get excited by shows, but I guess they don't know what they've missed. If they did, they'd probably stay in bed!

[sandozer]

WH904, I can bet you never paid £30 on the day, for entry either !!!
(small print, pensioners £15) :D

[WH904]

Indeed, most shows used to be free.

I don't think anyone objected to paying for the likes of Greenham Common or Mildenhall, but back then one got something for one's money. These days it's a very different matter. For example, I went to Waddington's show to see the Viggen and Vulcan and I was astonished to see how little there was to see. The static line-up was virtually nil, and this was supposed to be the RAF's "flagship" show of the year. The flying display was tame, and livened-up only by the Viggen. Even the Vulcan was a bit of a disappointment, performing somewhere closer to Metheringham than Waddington.

I've carped about this before, and the response is usually that I should accept that everybody loves these shows, as demonstrated by the attendance figures. It's spurious nonsense of course, as nobody has calculated how many people just don't go to shows any more because they're so poor.

I sympathise with the organisers for having to struggle with dwindling numbers of potential attendees and the ever-rising costs, plus absurd safety rules that make watching the show a better idea outside the airfield than in it. But my sympathy goes only so far. I see no attempt from anyone to make shows better, given the resources that remain. They seem to think that soldiering-on with the same old format is the way to go, even though it's gasping its last breath.

[500N]

WH904

"and the response is usually that I should accept that everybody loves these shows, as demonstrated by the attendance figures."

This applies to everything in this world "we are successful, lot at the figures,
look how many walk through the door" as opposed to
"how can we make this better, how can we improve, who are we missing out on,
who doesn't come that would like to" etc etc.

[Coochycool]

Wot no Vulcan?

I could swear last time I checked the website it was listed as flying.

I see the Belgians and Danes arent showing face either, cant remember a show without them.

Last chance to see the VC-10 though. Makes spending 50 quid to stand in the rain all day worth it alone.

[WH904]

Vulcan cancelled couple of days ago after suffering a fuel leak on Sunday. The VC10 will indeed be nice though, although it's not a C1 - sadly they've all gone now.

I can't imagine there's going to be much at Leuchars to create much interest for anyone who has any great interest in aircraft. Viggen has got to be the star of the show - it certainly was at Waddington by a mile!

[TomJoad]

Let's be a little bit upbeat here WH904. I'm not mad about Airshows but the Leuchars' show has always been well received by the community that attend it. I'm sure it will be the same this year. Regards to all those who are presently working their nuts off and putting up with all sorts of nonsense to make the day go well and put a smile on the faces of those who visit on Sat. Your efforts are all the more appreciated given that you working under the transition programme. Good luck for Sat.:ok:

Tom

[WH904]

We all have our views of course. I simply look at the way these shows are presented. They're not a free day out to showcase the RAF or anything else. They're commercial events now. We don't have to thank anybody for them. If shows want our money then they are obliged to provide a show worth paying for. Same applies to any other kind of spectator event. Anyone is entitled to point-out how poor they are, surely? I really don't get this notion that we should somehow be thankful or grateful for an air show. Why?

[TomJoad]

We all have our views of course. I simply look at the way these shows are presented. They're not a free day out to showcase the RAF or anything else. They're commercial events now. We don't have to thank anybody for them. If shows want our money then they are obliged to provide a show worth paying for. Same applies to any other kind of spectator event. Anyone is entitled to point-out how poor they are, surely? I really don't get this notion that we should somehow be thankful or grateful for an air show. Why?

Yes you are right WH, in life you do not need to thank anyone for anything - particularly if it's something you have paid for. That's what makes the act special, worthwhile and appreciated. Hey Ho, each to their own.:=

The servicemen/women who make the Airshow happen do not undertake it on a commercial footing nor do they receive any financial gain for it. I'm not going to tell you how many of them get "buggered" about in the run-up to the Airshow, the attention which it attracts from stn Execs is wholly disproportionate and hence the triv factor filters downward. But, hey at the end of the day. they are service personnel so they should just get on with it aye. Like I said, I agree you do not need to say thanks - some just choose to. Anyway, looking forward to Sat, taking the kids to see what may well be the last BB Airshow at Leuchars. Should be a good one:ok:

[WH904]

Don't get me wrong, the folks who actually do the job of physically putting on the show should be given due credit. I'm really talking about the organisers more than anyone else. It's their "commercial" attitude that sets the tone and style of each show and that's fine, but I never quite get how we're then somehow obliged to be grateful that they've deigned to put on a show for us. That's really not how it should be.

[sitigeltfel]

Enjoy what's there, if you can. Its going to be the last.

Last Leuchars Airshow (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/this-weekend-s-raf-leuchars-airshow-will-be-the-last-1.127993)

[WH904]

Think it was already widely assumed that this would be the last show. It's a very sad business. It was tragic to see the very last Finningley show, and that was one of the last of a long line of stations that held annual BofB At Home days (even though it wasn't billed as such towards the end). Abingdon, St.Athan, and many others all disappeared and Leuchars was the last of the traditional annual events. It's particularly sad that they're ending on such a lack-lustre note, with little of interest to see and gloomy weather by the looks of it. But there's not much that the organisers could do about either issue!

I guess the only attitude is to enjoy what there is for one last time. It's hard to see how the event could be replicated elsewhere (I mean, how many people would go all the way to Lossiemouth?!) so Leuchars is simply going the same way as so many other stations, and taking its show with it. One would imagine that for the future, the air show scene is going to become little more than a series of small events, mostly held at the seaside. One hopes that the RAF will strive to present some sort of annual event, but if they do, let's hope it's significantly better than this year's Waddington show. If it hadn't been for the Vulcan and particularly the Viggen, it would have been pretty grim.

I think the problem is that organisers try to carry-on replicating the same kind of show that's been staged for decades. It seems clear that this kind of event is no longer sustainable. It needs some "blue sky thinking" and a new attitude towards the concept of public relations. Problem is, I don't think there's any sign of that happening - just yet ;)

[dead_pan]

Even the mighty RIAT is a feeble shadow of its former self now

Indeed. I recall many a show in the 80s at Fairford and Greenham when the field was packed to the gunnels with a/c, one in particular when they were celebrating some Herc anniversary or other, when perhaps 30+* variants of the type were on show.

* If memory serves - either way, it seemed a lot to me.

[dead_pan]

...that said, the principal (summer) shows at Duxford seem still to be going strong. Haven't been to leg-ends for a while, but that always seems to be pretty well attended. I know it helps when it is the home airfield for a fair few warbirds.

[NutLoose]

that the show might be able to continue even after the change to an army base, but that now appears to have been dashed.

Can totally understand it being the last as all the infrastructure to support flying will have gone.

Deadpan it was the 25th, went there in a Puma, someone (NOT ME) has pics on line, it amused me at the time because they put the Saudi one next to the Israeli one.. I know it was a bloody long walk, being a mile long line of them

Lockheed C130 Hercules 25th Anniversary Line Up IAT 79 Greenham common - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/toteavbods-pictures/sets/72157622625476562/)

[gr4techie]

Vulcan cancelled couple of days ago after suffering a fuel leak on Sunday.

That was like 5 days ago. Wish we could take that long over a snag. What happened to repairing the required number of aircraft for the following days flying programme? We (well, the stackers) have even found spares and couriered them from Marhell to ice station Lossie and we still got the jet fixed quicker than that.

Theres a joke that "When it stops leaking, then there is a problem :} ".

[NutLoose]

The difference is you have spares available, all be it in another place, they may not, hence the parts need repairing and the time factor comes into play.

[gr4techie]

I could chisel a new widget out of stone quicker.

Maybe the could do a visit to one of the other static Vulcans with an adjustable spanner a swag bag.

[rab-k]

With this being the final year at Leuchars I can see the inhabitants of Inverness and Aberdeen, and all points inbetween, being up for the event being moved to Lossie, but only the uber-keen would make the journey up from the central-belt conurbations I'd imagine.

Perhaps an enhanced beat-up programme for East Fortune (http://www.nms.ac.uk/our_museums/museum_of_flight/whats_on/airshow.aspx) might be the best the Edinburgers etc. can hope for.

East Fortune Airshow 2013 (National Museum of Flight) - YouTube

[FrustratedFormerFlie]

Quote: "I mean, how many people would go all the way to Lossiemouth?"

I'm sure I remember attending an excellent display at Lossie some time in the 1980s. One distinct benefit over Leuchars is that at Lossie the logical arrangement of the crowd and display line has the crowd facing North, not squinting into the sun as at Leuchars

[Roland Pulfrew]

RIAT this year was definitely a shadow of its former self. The static park was pretty empty and well s p r e a d out (which was good in a way, as you never felt hemmed in by people, despite the Sat being a sell out) and the flying display was definitely well s p a c e d out as opposed to the shows of the 90s where there was something displaying almost continuously.

Not entirely convinced by the Lossie crowd direction, certainly better than Leuchars which is entirely in to sun, but the sun still gets into the eyes at Lossie after about midday. Kinloss had the best layout up there, with the crowd on the south-side and an east-west runway.

Sadly costs, ever shrinking militaries and, for the US this year, sequestration have taken a serious toll on static and flying displays - will airshows involving the regular military survive much longer? Will we be just left with those specialist shows, such as Duxford and maybe the big trade shows, in the not too distant future? :{

[November4]

Deadpan it was the 25th, went there in a Puma, someone (NOT ME) has pics on line, it amused me at the time because they put the Saudi one next to the Israeli one.. I know it was a bloody long walk, being a mile long line of them

Lockheed C130 Hercules 25th Anniversary Line Up IAT 79 Greenham common - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/toteavbods-pictures/sets/72157622625476562/)

Thanks for posting the link to the photos NL. That was my first and only visit to Greenham Common. Great to see the photos of Snoopy as I got a chance to have a look inside it as the Capt was (and still is) a family friend.

[WH904]

I gave-up on RIAT some years ago. I marvel at how some enthusiasts still whip themselves into a frenzy on some forum sites over RIAT but I really don't understand why. I suspect it's simply because they've not seen anything better. It is a pity we can't go back in time... :)

[TomJoad]

I gave-up on RIAT some years ago. I marvel at how some enthusiasts still whip themselves into a frenzy on some forum sites over RIAT but I really don't understand why. I suspect it's simply because they've not seen anything better. It is a pity we can't go back in time... :)

Gosh I feel your pain WH, you make me laugh. Have you considered the need for a new hobby.:)

[El Grifo]

Remember my first ever airshow was Leuchars in the 50´s or 60´s. I was a mere stripling of a lad and got a last minute place in car, replacing some poorly child.

74 Sqdn flying the illustrious Lightning will endure in my crumbling memory.

Long time ago and very far away !!

El G.

[glad rag]

........and ,unfortunately, no Vulcan this year :ooh:

Bugger.

Last Vulcan display I watched was the last ever survival scramble @ RAF Wyton cira 1980 Entire station turned [I]oot but we freaks in the gin palace had our own wee secret place to watch ;)...

[Coochycool]

Had my first ever flight as a 9 year old at the Leuchars show.

Air Atlantique did 20 minute hops with a brace of DC-3s, think they might have had a Rapide there aswell.

Wouldnt get away with it now security wise I guess.

And to think we won the cold war

[NutLoose]

Earlier this week, with further investigation, we traced the fuel leak seen on Sunday to No.5 Tank Starboard, not as indicated by the leak as being from No.7 Tank - the leaking fuel was tracking back in the aircraft’s structure and emerging under No.7 Tank.


The No.7 tank sump plate pipework is clearly visible to the left of the No.5 tank sump where
our technicians are now working.

We are currently getting ready to inspect No. 5 Tank fully, having drained and vented it, to assess the size of the problem. The tank will then be removed and sent to FPT Industries for further investigation and possible repair or remanufacture.

We don’t have a date for when the aircraft will be likely to be serviceable but we will update you just as soon as the engineers and OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) feedback the information.

Please continue reading these newsletters for further news.


From their newsletter.

[WH904]

I guess I'm pretty lucky living near to Finningley so I get to see XH558 coming and going. It's ironic that one gets a better and closer look at XH558 at Finningley than at the air shows, where the aircraft is so far away!

Sadly, I haven't managed the long trip up to Leuchars in a long time. I remember a great couple of days there with 111 Squadron, with display pilot Archie Liggot kindly taking me for a supersonic run and some aeros in one of their Phantoms. Waiting for the train to head home was fun - can't be many stations where one can watch Phantoms roar over!

TomJoad, maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm not feeling any pain - I was lucky enough to see all the good stuff years ago so I can't say I'm particularly worried if there's never so much as one decent air show ever again. I just think it's a great shame in terms of the RAF's relationship with the public.

[OutlawPete]

Much as I'd love the superb spectacle that is the RAF Leuchars airshow to move to RAF Lossiemouth, I can't see it. Apart from it's geographical location Lossie is not the easiest to access for huge volumes of traffic and has no rail link either.

The best move would be to hold it at Prestwick. It's got decent road links, a railway station and is on a main bus route. Also the town of Ayr is a belting night out!

[TomJoad]

WH,

Understand what you are getting at but perhaps the airshows you were so found of reflected the RAF of the day. Today's RAF is much different, in size, equipment and personnel. I will be at Leuchars tomorrow with my young children and I am sure that they will be as impressed by all the "good stuff" as you were in your day; it's all relative. The days of the RAF mounting the airshows that you recall are well and truly over - we no longer have that capacity, and to be honest with you I don't think there is the public appetite beyond the immediate interest group. Perhaps it is time for a combined service Military Tatto with a more capability demonstration focus than ceremonial. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the day out tomorrow, even if the cloud is low there is always something to see and as it is the last BoB at Leuchars it kind of makes it special anyway.

Tom

[TomJoad]

Outlaw,

Been a wee while since I've been to Ayr but "a belting night out" - really that good eh:E

I agree though it won't move to Lossie far too remote. Apparently they have announced in the local press now that it will be the last one at Leuchars - sad but then again nothing stays forever. On a more serious note I wonder if they considered the impact of closing RAF Leuchars in terms of promoting the military profile in Scotland.

Tom

[OutlawPete]

Ayr. Depends where you go, Tom. And it's home ground for me so I'd say that anyway!! I'm sure many would say different.

[sandozer]

El Grifo, I was that soldier, 74 Squadron being my first squadron at Leuchars. F3s, dont`t you just love them. Enough time to see a kite off, have a coffee, game of darts and see the same aircraft back in again ! Like 55 minutes flying time on a good day. Twas luxury to finish up on 43Sqdn, and their phabulous Phantoms.

[wub]

TomJoad: Enjoy your day at Leuchars, as a veteran of many shows going back to the mid 1960s I will miss it but I won't be there tomorrow, not enough interest for all the hassle involved.

As an aside, a friend of mine, an air trafficker, was posted to Prestwick and was enjoying a night in a local pub in Ayr when he was engaged in conversation by a local, who asked him what his job was. He told the man he was an air traffic controller, whereupon he was poked in the chest by the man who said "well, you've made a right arse of the roundabout in Ayr town centre"

[Union Jack]

The best move would be to hold it at Prestwick. It's got decent road links, a railway station and is on a main bus route.

.... and it's got HMS GANNET SAR Flight!:ok:

Jack

[TomJoad]

He told the man he was an air traffic controller, whereupon he was poked in the chest by the man who said "well, you've made a right arse of the roundabout in Ayr town centre"

Love it, you could't make that up.


Outlaw, Prestwick is actually not a bad idea, if the intention was there.

[OutlawPete]

Tom, they held an air show at Prestwick regularly until 1992. Ok it was fairly small scale in comparison to Leuchars but good nonetheless.

[wub]

It was at a Prestwick air show that Cdr Beattie of the RNHF had to throw away the Sea Fury when he experienced an asymmetric gear problem.

[Davef68]

"Ayr town centre"

Wasn't he a racing driver? :) I'll get my coat!!

[WH904]

Realistically, I don't think anything will come along to replace the Leuchars show. I think it's fair to assume that the RAF will concentrate its efforts on Waddington in future. That wouldn't be so bad if Waddington is made into a better show, but I can't see any appetite to change the current format... just yet. But who knows - maybe with only one annual event to work with, there might be more enthusiasm for thinking of ways in which a much better show could be staged, but I suspect that for the foreseeable future (at least while the Reds and BBMF are still around), Waddington will not change significantly. Thing is, if the Vulcan doesn't come back next year and the Swedish HF stays home, you have to wonder whether there's much prospect of any sort of show that's really worth seeing.

[OutlawPete]

It was at a Prestwick air show that Cdr Beattie of the RNHF had to throw away the Sea Fury when he experienced an asymmetric gear problem.

Indeed it was, I was in the crowd that very day. A sad end to the day as it was a magnificent aircraft. One of the mains wouldn't lower. He bailed out safely and the aircraft ended up in the sea.

[SASless]

Why would a Gear Up landing not have been a better option?

The aircraft could have probably been salvaged.

[Cubanate]

Just a thought, Outlawpete

Kinloss is easier to get to than Lossie, has a railway station, a nice long runway and, sadly, loads of ramp space and accommodation :( The weather is probably better than Leuchars or PIK too

[Evalu8ter]

SASless - he's done one of those too.....WG655 into a field post total engine failure. Unfortunately the slide swerved into a tree and the crew were lucky to get out relatively unharmed.

Re the Prestwick bird (TF956) IIRC the gear was asymmetrically deployed and stuck; ie one fixed leg down, and despite a couple of hours of pushing/pulling and head scratching the decision was made to abandon her. I think the Aircrew Manual said that it was not recommended to land on one leg due to the risk of flipping over.

Lovely aircraft.....would be a tough choice between the Spad and a Sea Fury!

[FJJP]

I organised the Waddington Airshow in the late nineties. I can see that it is more difficult these days with the shrinking of budgets and the reduction in the size of Air forces worldwide. The guys who sit behind desks for hours on end at the end of a telephone trying to persuade people to participate have my deepest sympathy - it is not easy. Also trying to achieve a balanced show is hard work, and therere is also the high rank factor, where after you have organised the display, someone one with stars on their shoulders throw you a wobbly, like 'were having some VIPs to lunch at 1pm and don't want noisy jets farting about in the circuit - so make sure the noise level is kept to a minimum'. Re-write the programme...

We have to accept that the military world is shrinking and increasingly short of the readies. No longer can we call up matey on an old Sqn to come and do a beat-up. Everything is so regimented that it is painful. Live with it and realise that the guys are doing the best they can...

[WH904]

But that's the problem. You're right in everything you say, and yet the conclusion that we simply accept things as they are seems to be the difficulty. If that attitude prevails then the remaining shows will get worse and eventually disappear completely.

Surely, the only sensible way forward is to abandon the whole show format and start afresh. Re-examine the "safety" rules that prevail and re-examine the relationship between routine/operational flying and display flying. My guess is that if there was enough will to look at things differently without any agenda, a really good event could be staged. I just fear that nothing like that will happen because nobody seems willing to think outside of the same parameters that have applied for decades.

[TomJoad]

Well FJJP they certainly did their best today - it was a great show and a fitting one. Despite best efforts of weathermen predictions the sun shone.

Nice article here in the BBC site. I'm coming to terms that Prestwick would be the ideal location for a future central Scotland Airshow.


BBC News - Last RAF Leuchars Airshow takes to skies (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-23986041)

[fallmonk]

Was a fantastic day as always. Weather behaved. Show was good, only down side was no yanks and no Vulcan,
BIG THANKS. To all involved

[FJJP]

Unfortunately the Vulcan suffered a fuel tank leak - they would have loved to have done the display, but it was not to be...

[glad rag]

Excellent.

Well done to those involved today and Crack On in the memory of the Few.

Raise the rafters and to Damn with those who are ignorant!

:D

[fallmonk]

Yip knew that. Get 558 updates on FB. Shame though tin triangle always a crowd pleaser
Any idea what happened to the RN black cat lynx?
Or did I just miss it? Might have been while in the interactive hanger!

[OutlawPete]

Why would a Gear Up landing not have been a better option?

The aircraft could have probably been salvaged.

I'm not sure sasless and the same thought occurred to me at the time. The only rationale behind it, as far as I can see, is the potential danger that such a landing may put a large crowd in.

[Fareastdriver]

yanks and no Vulcan

and no RAF support helicopters either. No Chinook, no RAF Merlin and God only knows what has happened to the Mk2 Puma. Apart from one pilot on a KC10 that had eighteen days before being struck off charge there were no RAF aircrew to discuss any points on any of the aircraft on the static display. The result was queues of an hour or so to look in the two or three that were open.

The Red Arrows, down to eight, had the same show as last year because there's not a lot else they can do. The B of B flight the same though to see the Lancaster fly is to me still a great sight. You had to hand it to the civvy aerobatic teams using aircraft built for the job for their displays and also the various vintage aircraft organisations.

The non stop Tornados of various nationalities were impressive but as a show to present the Royal Air Force as a whole I felt it was disappointing.

[OutlawPete]

Just a thought, Outlawpete

Kinloss is easier to get to than Lossie, has a railway station, a nice long runway and, sadly, loads of ramp space and accommodation :( The weather is probably better than Leuchars or PIK too

A fair point Cubanate, I can but hope! Still cant see the same numbers venturing this far up north as we see at Leuchars.

Glad for all involved that it went well today, gutted I couldn't be there!

[TomJoad]

Don't be too hard on yourself Outlaw - I enjoyed it for you:)

I think the most serious contender for an alternative site must be Prestwick. More accessible for a larger part of the population. If the RAF put on an Air Tattoo there, then the closure of RAF Leuchars could, in a very small way, actually be a blessing in disguise. We will just need to wait and see.

[dead_pan]

God only knows what has happened to the Mk2 Puma

Laid-up waiting for Eurocopter to work their magic on them? Saw my first one in a good few months in Oxon last week.

[OutlawPete]

Nice one Tom. Highlight of the day?

[AtomKraft]

Well, highlight wise, for me it was the Viggen. The Austrians did well though.

Swedish Vampire was nice too.

If I'd believed the weatherman though, I'd have stayed in my bed. If they can't even predict todays wx, what hope is there for any forecast?

[hoodie]

Why would a Gear Up landing not have been a better option?

The aircraft could have probably been salvaged.

IIRC, one gear leg wouldn't come down, and then the other wouldn't go up.

A landing would have therefore had to have been on one main leg only, which was deemed too risky - I'm pretty sure there was historic experience that supported that decision. Potential to flip on its back rings a bell.

[dead_pan]

Indeed it was, I was in the crowd that very day. A sad end to the day as it was a magnificent aircraft. One of the mains wouldn't lower. He bailed out safely and the aircraft ended up in the sea.

Me too. Recall him doing flicks and bouncing his good leg down the runway in an effort to deploy the other.

I also remember that, shortly after Sea King pair departed to recover the pilot from the Clyde, a BA 747 enroute to the 'states did an emergency landing. All rather exciting for a young lad. The show organisers rather wisely decided to call it a day after that after realising the airshow Gods were angry with them that day.

[Dan Gerous]

Almost didn't go thanks to the weather report. Found out on Friday night this was to be the last, so decided to risk it. Glad I did. Fantastic day out, weather played ball for most of the day and they dodged the rain bullet.:ok:

I'm all for the Lossie option if it comes off. Lossie had a couple of shows back in the 70/80's and I seem to recall they were well attended.

[Heathrow Harry]

Bugger to get to tho'......................

A9 or Inverness airport....................

[Lima Juliet]

The RAF moving out of Leuchars vice Lossie was always wrong for sooo many reasons:

1. To keep on thread, Leuchars is better for the airshow.
2. Leuchars is nearer more diversions that FJs need for low fuel on the ground unless you keep KIS's runway open at many ££££££s..
3. It is near civilisation (ie. Edinburgh)
4. It is the right side of the Grampians.
5. The golf is better.
6. The army could 'blob up' in LOS/KIS.
7. People from South of the border don't mind a posting to Leuchars but a further 3 hours up the A9 can be a marriage killer or career shortener (i.e. they leave). That said, some odd-balls like the isolation!

Still, another crap decision made, another good base going to the other services (just like Brawdy, Chivenor, Cottesmore, Abingdon, Andover, :{). It's done now...

LJ

[rab-k]

Prestwick? I think MOL (of Ryanair fame) might have something to say about his (few) scheduled services being potentially interrupted by fast-jet jockeys showing off.

Parking (cars rather than aeroplanes) might be an issue as most of the larger spaces are already used by airport-associated long-stay outfits - only the patch of ground beside the tower security gate comes to mind, and it isn't 'large' as car parks go.

I know the railway station is close, but if public access were to be from the Gannet side as opposed to the terminal side, it'd be a bit of a hike for some... 2+ miles.

As for RNAS Prestwick/HMS Gannet SAR, mentioned earlier, (thread drift...), are it's days also not numbered, with civvy contractors taking on that role in the not too distant, and potentially from elsewhere?

Any other non-mil airfields having commercial/scheduled operators holding similar shows?

[Postman Plod]

I would have thought East Fortune would have some potential for an airshow?

[chinook240]

I too mourn the passing of the Leuchars Airshow, first flight ever was there as a lad in the 60's in a C172 and probably led to my decision to join the RAF.

As to its replacement, perhaps an enterprising Edinburgh City Council could follow the success of Bournemouth, Sunderland and Blackpool and put on a 'free' seaside airshow at somewhere like Portobello, say around the 18th of September next year;)

[Dryce]

I know the railway station is close, but if public access were to be from the Gannet side as opposed to the terminal side, it'd be a bit of a hike for some... 2+ miles.


At the last Prestwick show I attended in the late 70s they ran shuttle buses from the station round to the east side of the field.

My other recollection was that during the show there were some normal ops that briefly interrupted the show from time to time. (More to see:D)

[INT_QRU]

Well I was disappointed. Look at the RAF participation in the flying display. Sea King, Tucano, Sentry, Typhoon. Leave aside the Reds and BBMF (with a single Tornado) and that was the total of RAF hardware shown to the public.

I know there are operational constraints but I feel this was a poor representation of the albeit limited capabilities we have today.

Having said that, it was a good day - the Austrian role demo was particularly impressive and it was great to see the Viggen.

Cheers

[Finningley Boy]

I've posted a similar message on UKAR, I think the most logical option, if the show can't return to Leuchars after 2015, the most likely option is to continue it at Lossiemouth. It would represent the best way of retaining the tradition and custom of the Battle of Britain at home day. The concerns about the level of access I think have been over hyped. I would have thought that together with the determined few from further south that the towns of Aberdeen, Peterhead, Inverness and so forth would provide a reasonable size core population, but then I suppose its all down to what the review currently being conducted by the R.A.F will determine. Personally, I'd prefer the original format to contniue at Leuchars somehow.:8

FB:)

[BEagle]

A shame if Leuchars goes under - and this year's show sounded to have been rather thin from the RAF's attendance.

29 years ago I did a flypast in VC10K2 ZA140 and the aerodrome looked packed - we also did a flypast at RAF Finningley and that too was packed solid with the genpub and no doubt, spotters with their wretched little ladders...:rolleyes: Later, we did a couple of statics and the FunBus was host to many 'selected invitees'....:ok:

But we had an air force back then.....:bored:

[CoffmanStarter]

spotters with their wretched little ladders...

How low was that flypast then BEagle :eek:

[hval]

Whilst there may have been a paucity of aircraft, what was there was well presented, both on the ground and in the air. I feel that all dealt with any issues that came up (e.g. Vulcan and Hunter) well.

Everyone I saw certainly appeared to very much enjoy the airshow. The fact that the weather forecast was totally incorrect was much appreciated. Those that I spoke with certainly had a pleasurable day. I spoke with many former R.A.F. personnel who were happy to reminisce about their pasts and Leuchars' in particular. There was much sadness with the demise of R.A.F. leuchars and with the armed forces in general. This year, for some reason, I spoke with many people who wanted to tell me about their times at R.A.F. Tengah. It was absolutley fascinating.

I would personally like to thank all those people involved with organising, setting up, running and dismantling what was an extremely pleasurable day. Thank you all.

Finally a very big thanks to the Red Arrows for their departure display at 10:00 hrs on Sunday.

Hval.

[A A Gruntpuddock]

"The aircraft could have probably been salvaged."

But the pilot possibly wouldn't. Which is more important?

"I would have thought East Fortune would have some potential for an airshow?"

Have you been there?

Nice airfield but unfortunately access leaves MUCH to be desired.

[hval]

I wouldn't want an airshow on the West coast. Weather too unpredictable. Sorry, the weather is precitable; rain, low clouds and high winds.

[matkat]

Beagle, did you ever attend the post show beer call in VASS? George insisted on them and of course attendance was mandatory :ok:

[Speedywheels]

Come 2015, I'm sure the Scottish Air Force will be able to have their complete fleet on static display at SAF Lossiemouth. For the flying diplays, they can call on guest appearances from various foreign nations. Maybe the RAF might venture north to show the locals a glimpse of what they once had. :O

[Finningley Boy]

Speedywheels,

My sentiments entirely, MSPs and the SNP have been getting right on their high horses over this, yet none can possibly offer anything similar to go in place should independence become a reality.

Having been at Leuchars on Saturday and accepting the way the R.A.F. orbat is these days, I think they did a marvelous job. Got to admit though, had it not been for the Austrains and the Swedes (especially the Viggen) it would have struggled a bit. I've boticed that the home based aircraft when ever they put up have always been restricted to flypasts and or role demos, no formation drills culminating in zoom climbs like it was in the early 90s and before.

So, wonder what the future holds now?

FB:)

PS Beagle,

29 years ago being 1984, I was on the ground at Finningley that very day.