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View Full Version : US Park Police Professionalism On Display


SASless
2nd Sep 2013, 21:45
Following a Protest against the Proposed Attack on Syria that President Obama wishes to do....a Female Military Veteran had the occasion to encounter the Long Arm of the Federal Park Police.

She was inside a fenced area in Philadelphia that is near Independence Mall.

The opening hours for the location is from 0800-1700 Daily.

When first approached by the Federal Park Police the time was approximately 1715. She was in the company of many other folks, some of whom filmed the encounter.

In a former Life....I was both a City Police Officer and later a Federal Special Agent.....this is exactly not the way such an encounter should have been handled.

Why is it....it took 8-9 Federal Park Police Officers and an untold number of Philadelphia Police Officers to persuade this young Woman to voluntarily leave the Park?

Why did they take an agressive stance from the Git Go?

She has a defense fund that was started by some of her friends and has the offer of Pro Bono defense from a Lawyer Group. I hope she sues the Ass off the Cops as they clearly used force when no force was warranted.

I know Wimmen can be difficult at times....but when told they have some choices to make....they as most folks will pick the lesser of the evils offered once they understand one of the options is going to happen unless they do in fact make a choice of their own.

Perhaps this proves the concept that out of the 756 different and unique ways there are to argue with a Woman....exactly none of them work.


Woman violently arrested playing banjo in wrong place at Syria war protest in Philly - Emily Yates - YouTube

pigboat
2nd Sep 2013, 22:13
Does Al Sharpton know about this? Oh, wait...

Mach Turtle
3rd Sep 2013, 01:32
The militarization of the police in the States during the past decade is troublesome.

North Shore
3rd Sep 2013, 04:16
Well, I'm usually the last to defend the police; but, if she's in a park after it closes, refuses to leave under her own steam, and gets cute with the people asking her to leave, then she can't complain too loudly when she is moved. Perhaps the cops were a little rough, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that their style is changing from the less aggressive stance of years past. If you don't take that into account in your dealings with them...

That all being said, one of these days there's going to be a mass police shooting down there, as the police push a second amendment nut a little too far over an issue like this, and s/he comes out guns-a-blazin' in defence against tyranny.

mikedreamer787
3rd Sep 2013, 04:39
Looks to me like she planned to get arrested in order
to rile the mob and get some free advertising of the
cause. Her speel was textbook with the right verbage
and actions for a female. What she also should've
done was be holding a baby in order to gain even
further inflamed emotion from her audience.

SASless
3rd Sep 2013, 05:19
You reckon if a single Police Officer had politely approached her and nicely reminded her the Park was closing and she would need to leave....it might have worked a bit nicer? He could have explained the hours, pointed out the sign with the hours on it, and explained it applied to everyone.

I am sure in time....she would have left....and done so quietly....if she realized there would be no scene, she had not been treated officiously, and had nothing to gain by being recalcitrant.

I am quite sure if she stayed there till the next morning....no harm would have been done. At some point she would have to hit the Loo....and that would have taken her out of the Park by itself for crying out loud.

If they had not bothered with her....she would have left for Dinner at some point.

Nope...they were looking for a confrontation of some kind.....and were just being a bunch of Pricks.

UniFoxOs
3rd Sep 2013, 07:48
I am quite sure if she stayed there till the next morning....no harm would have been done. At some point she would have to hit the Loo....and that would have taken her out of the Park by itself for crying out loud.

If they had not bothered with her....she would have left for Dinner at some point.

Quite right. They should have cleared everybody else out and locked up the park. She would soon have got fed up without an audience to show off in front of.

Or, of course, maybe after closing they water all the plants with a big hose....

A Squared
3rd Sep 2013, 08:46
Why did they take an agressive stance from the Git Go?

Were they? I don't get that from the video, but then the video doesn't show the beginning of the encounter. Seems to me that they're being polite and professional at the begining of the video. I can't really follow the dialog but it doesn't seem like their tone of body language is particularly aggressive.



You reckon if a single Police Officer had politely approached her and nicely reminded her the Park was closing and she would need to leave....it might have worked a bit nicer?

Do you know for a fact that they didn't? The video starts with I think 3 officers, but the discussion is already well under way at that point. Who and how many first approached her? It would be interesting to see the entire exchange form the beginning.

Like North Shore, I'm not one to defend cops on a power trip, but honestly, I'm kind of scratching my head at the opinion that the police at a closed facility should ask someone to leave, but just let them stay if they chose not to obey.

Tankertrashnav
3rd Sep 2013, 09:17
We used to have a branch of the police known as the Royal Parks Police which was disbanded a few years ago and its responsibilities handed over to a section of the Met.

If our lot took their duties as seriously as these ones then perhaps the Bomber Command memorial in Green Park might not have been seriously vandalised on two occasions.

darkroomsource
3rd Sep 2013, 12:02
This video, if presented in court, will prove her guilt.
The law enforcement officers told her several times, I counted 23 times, that she was there in violation of the law.
She was provoking this.

Nick Riviera
3rd Sep 2013, 13:21
What I saw was a woman who was deliberately provoking the officers and ended up getting the outcome that she wanted. Far from being aggressive from the "git go" the opening couple of minutes shows the officers politely explaining to her that the park was closed and that she had to leave. We don't see the very start of the confrontation but I would assume that they were equally polite at that time as it wouldn't make any sense otherwise. I am the first to react when officers of the law go over the top and abuse their powers but I saw none of that here. I would love to see the outcome of her lawsuit when that tape is played in court as she does not come out of it well.

SASless
3rd Sep 2013, 13:33
How many Cops does one need to handle one Women playing a Banjo?

That is what you guys are skipping over.....that and not one word was said to all those folks that were watching....why was that?

I can assure you a good "Come Along Grip" and Babs would have been on her toes tap dancing out of the Park and saying "Thank You Officer" when released outside the Fence. No muss....no fuss....just a bit of persuasion is all it would have taken.

Once you piss a Woman off.....you reckon they get difficult to reason with?

How many of you Married Men ever done that and reaped what you sowed?

onetrack
3rd Sep 2013, 13:34
A Policeman's Lot Is Not A Happy One - YouTube

A Squared
3rd Sep 2013, 13:49
How many Cops does one need to handle one Women playing a Banjo?

I'll ask again, how many were present at the start of the exchange, and how do you know?

That is what you guys are skipping over.....that and not one word was said to all those folks that were watching....why was that?

Because all those people watching and filming were on the other side of the a barrier which separated the part of the park which was open 24 hours a day, form the part that closed 15 minutes prior to the start of the video. The people watching and filming weren't in a closed area after hours, Banjo Girl was.

And the cops explained that to her. Repeatedly. And asked her, repeatedly to leave the closed portion of the park.

SASless
3rd Sep 2013, 14:02
Could they have issued her a Summons and let it go at that.....in time she would have left. Again.....minimum force required is the Standard....the policy used to be...."De-escalate".

Nope....sorry.....the Cops way over-reacted.

Were they running late for their Donuts or something?

Exactly what harm was she doing....other than being obtuse perhaps and argumentative.

If that is the criteria for that kind of Police Response.....imagine what a real trouble maker would get!

I noticed the City Cops got on their bikes and pedaled off.....no doubt not wanting to be connected to what was going on. They had no jurisdiction probably if the fenced area was Federal Property.....but knowing the Philly Police unless they could beat the crap out of the Lady they would not be interested. Perhaps they have changed but under Rizzo....they were well known for being abusive.

Philly is not the City of Brotherhood it is made out to be.

A Squared
3rd Sep 2013, 14:05
Philly is not the City of Brotherhood it is made out to be.

Get it right. Its the "City of Brotherly Love":}

SASless
3rd Sep 2013, 14:07
My girl's Bio.....

I do have a certain amount of sympathy for anyone who has to deal with her as she has a background that would lend itself to her being difficult.

Just because you might want to slap her out of her loafers doesn't mean you can or should....as a Police Officer.

Emily Yates Does Everything* ? Bio + Contact (http://emilyyatesdoeseverything.com/bio-contact/)

West Coast
3rd Sep 2013, 14:22
I have to believe it was her intent to leave that park arrested.

By a park ranger though?

Molemot
3rd Sep 2013, 15:45
A banjo player ???!!

Say no more......

er340790
3rd Sep 2013, 16:04
Sorry, but I think she deserved what she got! Dozy :mad: b1nt!

Mr Chips
3rd Sep 2013, 20:22
wow Sasless, you clearly have an opinion here. Even after posting 5 times you haven't convinced everyone that the Police are in the wrong, perhaps you should give up!

I watched the clip, and there is no hint of aggression until 3 minutes in, at which point the officers saw a chance to end the stand off. Prior to that, open body language, text book non aggression from the officers. She refused to comply with their requests to leave, she was grandstanding and when they laid hands on her she resisted

From your comments I can only assume you were watching a totally different video

obgraham
3rd Sep 2013, 22:42
Wot Chips said. I don't know what Sasless is seeing here.

Very little aggressive cop behavior until it becomes apparent that she isn't going to obey. So 2 of them cuffed her. Meanwhile she's trying to kick them in the nuts. So they go to full cop maneuver, everyone grabs a limb, and she's out of there.

What they really needed was some of that Syrian gas to take care of the bunch of louts outside the fence hollering all that abuse. To me the cops all exercised extreme restraint.

SASless
3rd Sep 2013, 22:54
Think what you want Chippy....I think the Cops handled it quite badly. Care to explain why they could not have taken more time? Why did they show up with such a large group of Officers for one Woman? They arrived with a pre-planned goal....and carried it out.

They engaged in argument....not persuasion as I see it.

I would have handled it quite differently.....after telling her about the closing hours and her not being willing to shift.....I would have asked some of the bystanders if they were her friends or associates....and explained to them what would happen if she did not leave.

I would have moved well off and given them a chance to persuade her she should leave.

When I returned....then we would have gone down the road they did in the video.

Do you expect instant obedience from a Citizen in response to a Police Officer in such a trivial issue?

Perhaps you have never dealt with people very much in a relationship such as that......I have.

Just as in a domestic conflict between folks at a residence.....girl and guy living in Sin together....flat in the girl's name (lease holder), guy giving her money and affection, sharing the bed with her, then she says off you go.

He doesn't...she calls the Plod....Plod shows up...figures out the deal....and explains to the Lad he has no legal right to be there and he must go. Naturally, Laddy doesn't care to do so and refuses. Plod says either shift or go to jail....at that point...if the Lad balks a a bit but is not aggressive or abusive but wants to argue a bit......does Plod immediately put the Habeas Grabus on the Lad, or does he remind the Kid that the law says he must go....and go he must....or it is off to the Cross Bar Hotel?

That is a dead common occurrence for City Cops....happens every single day all over the country. Usually, the Lad gets some help clearing out his kit and off he goes....fuming but off the premises to find a park bench somewhere.

Not always...but when the Lad gets aggressive or abusive we usually skipped to option three....but only after trying the soft way first.

Nope....those guys would not have made it on my Department as over time they would run into enough folks that 1) Would really resist 2)Would have fought 3) Would have complained to Internal Affairs 4) Would sue their ass off in court 5)Would find themselves looking for a job.

But....remember this is a Federal Level bunch of Cops....not City Cops.

Much harder to fire them than locals.

Cacophonix
3rd Sep 2013, 22:58
What is it about cops that they can be such utter pricks but when you really need one they aren't there?

Arlo Guthrie "The Motorcycle Song" - YouTube

Caco

SASless
3rd Sep 2013, 23:58
Update on the Arrest....charges filed....release on her own recognizance.

Seems she received some minor injuries during the Arrest.

For you unknowing....Assault on an Officer is done all but automatically to cover the Officers use of force. In our court system....there is a great difference between Resisting and Assault.

With all the video that is surfacing....and the Defense Fund that has been set up.....this case shall drag through the Courts until a Federal Prosecutor cuts a deal....which will go something like....No Harm/No Foul....no charges...no lawsuit....case closed.

Flap 5
4th Sep 2013, 10:23
The park was closed. If you or I were there we would have to leave. End of.

The aggressive one was the woman when she became mouthy and refused to leave. At that point what should the police do? Leave her? The park was closed. They could not just leave her there. Anyone else would have to leave.

She had an aggressive point to make and had brought along a mob to support her. The police were just doing their job.

Mr Chips
4th Sep 2013, 17:55
Sasless
Think what you want Chippy....I think the Cops handled it quite badly. .
Thank you, I will think what I like, but if you then return seven times to tell me I'm wrong.....
Care to explain why they could not have taken more time? Why did they show up with such a large group of Officers for one Woman? They arrived with a pre-planned goal....and carried it out.
It has already been pointed out, although you have ignored it, that we have no idea how long this had been going on before the video starts.
They were very calm for the first 3 minutes of the video (and presumably for some time before) but the woman was refusing to follow their requests. They take the opportunity when she turns round to restrain her. SHE CHOOSES TO FIGHT BACK. Pre planned goal? Well, yes. They had planned to uphold the law. i kinda assumed that's what cops do. large group? Well, there was a crowd, and she chose to fight the two officers who first restrained her

I would have handled it quite differently.....after telling her about the closing hours and her not being willing to shift.....I would have asked some of the bystanders if they were her friends or associates....and explained to them what would happen if she did not leave.
They explained it to her, and she chose to fight them

Listen sasless you can try and tell us all you like that these cops are not as good as you, but it strikes me that nobody agrees with you. The woman tried to protest, and she got arrested. She tried to fight and she lost. I'm not sure why you have such a problem with what these cops did, but i'll say again, I can see nothing wrong with how they behaved.

If you want to sulk and post another seven times that you are right and everyone else is wrong, you run the risk of looking just a teeny bit petulant. And silly.

SASless
5th Sep 2013, 04:10
Seems the EPA is getting in on the act.

Bad enough Immigration sent a SWAT Team to seize a young Cuban child from his family so they could ship him back to Cuba to meet his Father's custody demand....but now way up in the Arctic....the EPA is using a SWAT Team to look for Clean Water Violations.

Gold miners near Chicken, Alaska, cry foul over 'heavy-handed' EPA raids | Alaska Dispatch (http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20130903/gold-miners-near-chicken-cry-foul-over-heavy-handed-epa-raids)

West Coast
5th Sep 2013, 04:31
I'd change the name of that town to begin with.

I had the small business administration police on my plane a number of months ago. I was chasing down food between legs, my FO who is a FFDO greeted him when he pre boarded. The guy was a bit uppity when my FO asked him for his paperwork. Upon finding out that the FO was armed, he demanded to see his flat badge, which he produced. He then demanded to see some other paperwork that the FO never heard of. Tiring of him, my FO told him to take his seat or that he was going to be leaving the plane.

Some people. The SBA to boot.

500N
5th Sep 2013, 04:41
SaSless

I had to laugh at this

"rampant problem with drug and human traffickers."

Human traffickers ???

Bugger all humans up there and where are
they going if they are trafficking them ?

Mr Chips
5th Sep 2013, 07:27
So Sasless has failed to convince us that the Park Police did anything wrong, so has now dredged up something totally unrelated?

Exactly what is your point here?

A Squared
5th Sep 2013, 07:45
So Sasless has failed to convince us that the Park Police did anything wrong, so has now dredged up something totally unrelated?

Exactly what is your point here?

I think that if one were able to look into the mind of Mr SASless, one would find there there was some underlying issue at play here. Something pre-existing that has nothing to do with the incident at hand. Deep seated resentment of Federal Law enforcement, or some axe to grind specifically with Park Service police. Something of that nature. That would be one plausible explanation for why he is so desperately trying to claim the video shows something it does not.

When a former law enforcement officer claims that the proper response to a person refusing to comply with a LEO's apparently lawful request is to shrug his shoulders and walk away, leaving the person to continue breaking the law, you know there's something more than meets the eye.

Hydromet
5th Sep 2013, 10:17
Not to say whether the park police's actions were proper or not, but I've seen a better job done by one of our railway police, using quite different methods.
Our railway 'police' were (the system's changed now) usually 'would be if they could be s', who looked scruffy, liked to throw their weight around if there was a group of them, and generally were nowhere to be found if there was any possibility of trouble.
Except for one. He came through checking tickets, had a row of ribbons and was smartly turned out. I'd guess he was a recently discharged Sgt. or WO who was either killing time until a real job came up, or wanted a no-worry job to supplement his pension. He checked a young bloke who didn't have a ticket. Normally, the bloke would have got an on-the-spot infringement for a relatively small fine, but this one started giving lip. A normal railway cop would have immediately tried to summon a couple of his mates and started acting the same way as the park police in the vid. Not this one. He went into negative shouting mode, so that he could hardly be heard. He didn't threaten anything, just told the bloke that they were going to get off the train at the next stop, he was going to get an infringement, and he could make his way to wherever he was going by whatever means he liked, but if he chose the train, he'd better have a ticket. Without laying a hand on the bloke, they left the train at the next station. Seems quite an effective method.

SASless
5th Sep 2013, 16:00
A Squared.....you are late to the parade....I am a former Federal Law Enforcement Officer....and that absolutely qualifies me to pass judgement on the way the Park Police handled this.

I have been in their shoes so to speak....as some would say....been there done that!

Now your next point?

A Squared
5th Sep 2013, 16:05
Ehhh the fact that you may have been a Federal LEO of some sort doesn't exclude the possibility the you may have some sort of historical grudge with that particular branch. Still seems a plausible explanation for why you look at that video and see something so different that everyone else who watches the video. Your every post on this subject reeks of trying to bend the facts to a preconceived notion.

Mr Chips
5th Sep 2013, 16:48
oh sasless you aren't getting any better. Nobody said you weren't an ex LEO, just that you are wrong about your claims regarding the video. You were called out on the video, so you dragged up another unrelated incident, and you don't even respond properly to A Squared

You aren't doing very well at this......

Dushan
5th Sep 2013, 21:44
I'd change the name of that town to begin with.

I had the small business administration police on my plane a number of months ago. I was chasing down food between legs, my FO who is a FFDO greeted him when he pre boarded. The guy was a bit uppity when my FO asked him for his paperwork. Upon finding out that the FO was armed, he demanded to see his flat badge, which he produced. He then demanded to see some other paperwork that the FO never heard of. Tiring of him, my FO told him to take his seat or that he was going to be leaving the plane.

Some people. The SBA to boot.

LOL, this sounds like a case of "don't bring paperwork to a gunfight".

Did he sit (good boy) or did he walk?