PDA

View Full Version : Yachts trapped in Northwest Passage by.... ice


pigboat
1st Sep 2013, 15:40
Sail-World.com : North West Passage blocked with ice - yachts caught (http://www.sail-world.com/Canada/North-West-Passage-blocked-with-ice%E2%80%94yachts-caught/113788)
They're probably waiting for a bit of global warming. ;)

500N
1st Sep 2013, 15:48
Always expect the unexpected.

I like the wording in the article.

"Since one of the Canadian Coast Guard’s prime missions is to provide icebreaking for commercial shipping it will be interesting to see if Canada Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Government views this as an opportunity for good public relations to help recreational yachts transiting the Northwest Passage."

Set a precedent and it could prove a costly one.

RJM
1st Sep 2013, 15:52
That's no joke. Read about the fate of Sir John Franklin's expedition in the Erebus and Terror, trying to get through the N W Passage.

The Erebus and Terror were so named because they were 'bomb ketches' - ships with hulls specially strengthened to take the forces of large calibre mortars mounted on their decks. They were supposed to be hard for the ice to crush. They weren't. Everyone died - but only after eating their shoes, belts and wallets to stay alive. Their remains and diaries were found years later.

500N
1st Sep 2013, 16:00
I know it's not a joke. That is one heck of a lot of yatchs that
are stuck. I see it says that some of them have already been
abandoned. Does that mean out into harbour or just left for the
ice to crush them over winter ?

But this discussion occurs every time someone needs help
doing something extreme / some extreme sport - well, it
does here in Aus because it's normally the Gov't and Essential
services that haul them out of the shyte.

In our case in Aus, it is often rescuing sailors on round the world
races in the ocean way down south because it falls in our area for SAR.

er340790
1st Sep 2013, 16:15
Spent a couple of years up there in the NWT at a diamond mine 150m SW of Bathurst Inlet... Diavik. Remote does not even begin to describe it.

Summer would finally arrive around mid-June (despite total daylight far ahead of that), but by mid-August we would be getting snow flurries again.

Experienced my personal windchill record there in 2010... -65c. Actual temp was -56c. To be honest, you can't really feel the difference to -30c, you just DIE a lot faster.

If anyone has abandoned their ships, they should stay on the coast. With luck they might bump into a few Inuit. The interior is a starvation-zone.

MG23
1st Sep 2013, 16:41
Wasn't the media claiming a few days ago that the arctic had record low ice coverage or something?

G-CPTN
1st Sep 2013, 16:46
If anyone has abandoned their ships, they should stay on the coast. With luck they might bump into a few Inuit.Shirley you would carry a bicycle onboard in case of such eventualities?

green granite
1st Sep 2013, 17:37
It's what happens when you believe the Watermelons propaganda. :rolleyes:

Flypro
1st Sep 2013, 17:40
What is everyone fretting about?


Don't you know that GLOBAL WARMING means that these yachts really need to be supplied with sun beds?

Ice in The Northwest Passage is surely a thing of there past - if not, I think we should be told:)

Little cloud
1st Sep 2013, 18:07
The Erebus and Terror were so named because they were 'bomb ketches' - ships with hulls specially strengthened to take the forces of large calibre mortars mounted on their decks. They were supposed to be hard for the ice to crush. They weren't. Everyone died - but only after eating their shoes, belts and wallets to stay alive. Their remains and diaries were found years later.

Everyone died - but only after eating their shoes, belts and wallets to stay alive.
...and each other if the evidence uncovered by Dr Rae is to be believed. He was written out of the narrative by the establishment and the RN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rae_(explorer)

mixture
1st Sep 2013, 18:09
pigboat,

Heh.... looks just like the PPRuNe flotilla ....:E

Sunnyjohn
1st Sep 2013, 18:42
From Paul Homewood's homepage:

During 2003 to 2008, the mass gain of the Antarctic ice sheet from snow accumulation exceeded the mass loss from ice discharge by 49 Gt/yr (2.5% of input), as derived from ICESat laser measurements of elevation change.
The net gain (86 Gt/yr) over the West Antarctic (WA) and East Antarctic ice sheets (WA and EA) is essentially unchanged from revised results for 1992 to 2001 from ERS radar altimetry.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120013495_2012013235.pdf

Zwally goes on to say that “a slow increase in snowfall with climate warming, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.” But, of course, we don’t know how these rates of accumulation and melting compare to previous decades, so this is pure speculation on Zwally’s part.

There is nothing to suggest that this is not a normal, natural process seen many times in the past.

So, in Antarctica, we have:-

Increasing ice sheet mass
Advancing glaciers
Increasing sea ice
Global warming anyone?
Essentially, global temperatures have temporarily peaked, due to El Niño and the Decadel Oscillation and the planet is now entering a cooling phase. I suggest you sort out your central heating and buy a few more long woolly jumpers.

500N
1st Sep 2013, 19:42
ER34

That doco on the Ice Truckers makes you shiver just watching it.

ricardian
1st Sep 2013, 20:27
John Rae was an Orcadian, his tomb in in St Magnus cathedral in Kirkwall

pigboat
1st Sep 2013, 20:47
Does that mean out into harbour or just left for the
ice to crush them over winter ?

There aren't a whole lot of settlements up there to leave a boat. Right at the top there at the mouth of Prince Regent Inlet there's Arctic Bay/Nanisivik. Nanisivik has a deep water harbor from an iron ore mine that was open years back. Further up on that little island just outside the red circle, at the 10 o'clock position, there's Resolute Bay. Down that peninsula that juts up in the center of that map there's Taloyoak and further down there's Gjoa Haven, where Amundsen overwintered. For those stuck further east, east of Cape Bathurst, there's a couple of settlements along the McKenzie River delta, Cambridge Bay and Tuktoyaktuk. Those are the only places up there that I know of, where a boat could possibly be pulled out of the water. Far too often those adventurers have more money than brains. There should be a procedure in place whereby anyone attempting to traverse the NWP should have to post a hefty bond to cover the cost of having their butts pulled out of there by the Coast Guard. The bond would be repayable only after they've traversed.

uffington sb
1st Sep 2013, 20:59
Looks like these guys didn't make it.

MainStream Last First (http://mainstreamlastfirst.com/)

Rowing the NWP to prove GW. I don't think so!

500N
1st Sep 2013, 21:05
"Far too often those adventurers have more money than brains."

That's what I was getting at.

"There should be a procedure in place whereby anyone attempting to traverse the NWP should have to post a hefty bond to cover the cost of having their butts pulled out of there by the Coast Guard. The bond would be repayable only after they've traversed."

Good idea.

We have had Tony Bullimore, Isabelle Autissier and Thierry Dubios
all rescued way down south and often at short notice. Xmas / New Year seems to be the period for these things to occur !!!

bugg smasher
1st Sep 2013, 23:01
Far too often those adventurers have more money than brains. There should be a procedure in place whereby anyone attempting to traverse the NWP should have to post a hefty bond to cover the cost of having their butts pulled out of there by the Coast Guard. The bond would be repayable only after they've traversed.

Exactly. Too many 'adventurers' out there relying on Coast Guard rescue when the brown meets the spin. Let em freeze I say, daft kfecks, my tax dollar is needed elsewhere.

Seems to me, when rescue is readily available, lots of '@rse me softly' courage suddenly shows up to grab the limelight.

500N
1st Sep 2013, 23:08
So, what is the consensus ?

Should the Coast Guard do a goodwill PR rescue before it turns into a suvival rescue or
should they be taken to port and let them hole up there for 6 months ?

I can imagine the ice flow might have moved in pretty quickly with the right
prevailing winds but does that negate the sailors responsibility to plan well
and make sure all avenues are covered ?


In Australia's case, we don't have a Coast Guard, it is the Navy that
does all the rescues.

Cacophonix
1st Sep 2013, 23:09
Let em freeze I say

Ah come off it bugg. If your turbine was to wheeze off the Grand Banks (well south of that damned passage I know) or anywhere you'd like to think somebody would come to look for the wreckage, no? Least of all if it would stop the bull on R&N eh? ;)

Caco

bugg smasher
1st Sep 2013, 23:47
Yessir Caco, only reason I fly a four engine airplane is cause they don't make one with five. Self reliance I say, and a good lookin gal to watch the cockpit door. From the outside. Sadly, these days. Just in case.

Cacophonix
1st Sep 2013, 23:52
and a good lookin gal to watch the cockpit door

If you have found one Sir then you are a good man indeed! Women tend not to do that well behind closed doors and become uppity either way but, hell, I sound like a misogynist. ;)

Caco

bugg smasher
2nd Sep 2013, 00:16
She hurt you Caco, didn't she...

:)

pigboat
2nd Sep 2013, 00:43
So, what is the consensus ?

I'd send the CG to get 'em, but certainly not because such action would give me a warm fuzzy feeling. My reason is purely nationalistic. Canada claims the NWP as an inland waterway since the passage is entirely within Canadian waters, a position with which I agree, while other countries claim the NWP is an international waterway. Were Canada to mount a rescue mission I think it would strengthen the claim to the former. But the authorities in Ottawa had better poop or get off the pot. They have, at the very latest, until the end of September before freeze up.

500N
2nd Sep 2013, 00:48
Pig boat

Yes, that is one reason I hadn't thought of.

Agree re they need to get a move on, if it has closed up early,
it's not going to take much of a cold snap to freeze it over.

BlankBox
2nd Sep 2013, 01:18
...I figure we should call up our good ol' American buds...hell they likely got one their nukers hanging out there already...then instead of the dive-dive-dive stuff they can practice their blow all tanks....surface-surface-surface stuff I seen 'em do in the movies and blow all those fecken yawts to kindling...before winter sets in and the ice does it anyway..:{

500N
2nd Sep 2013, 01:24
A bit of Target practice for some Apache's ? :O

A few 30mm's or maybe even the odd Hellfire missile ?