Today, August 24th

[Captain Sherm]

Another day dawns and in many ways this day is no different to any other.

Except....this particular day offers a reminder that it behoves us all to reflect on things beyond our immediate circumstances from time to time. Things that have passed, yet cast long shadows, and things ahead, that offer great hope. Friends that have gone, fond remembrances of myriad foreign skies that offered a welcoming challenge when it seemed Australia's skies were closed to many. Continuing yet hidden sadnesses in the hearts of those who made choices whose after-effects seem to linger way beyond the immediacy of those times, yet with no way to clean the slate.

Next year will be the 25th time that this day has meant a lot to me and to others.That gives us a year to think and act on things that could, and that's could not will.....make August 24th next year a real day to remember.

Imagine....

Some form of truth and reconciliation forum to finally heal old wounds in a way that despite our best hopes, time alone has not in these 24 years, and will not.

A unified professional pilot body in Australia sending a single message on standards, safety, human factors, infrastructure etc to industry, CASA, government, IFALPA, ICAO et al

I can imagine that and I can certainly imagine that I don't want one more year to go by without decent steps forward in both areas.

So many threads here have their origins in the absence of one or both of these foundation stones for the future.... so this is not a day for snappy points scoring responses, or "get over it" rants. Such outpourings from little narrow grey minds have not served us well and will not.

An opportunity is here.....these pages can be used to build up as well as tear down. Our voices can matter, can heal and can build.

Our choice, your choice......yet if we want a decent future there really is no choice.

Captain Sherm

[S70IP]

Huh? I'm a different generation. What?

[Capn Bloggs]

Good post Sherm. :ok:

[Lifer01]

Huh? I'm a different generation. What?I'm tipping the "vague" reference is to the Australian Pilots' dispute of 1989.

[Capt. On Heat]

Aye Sherm

S70IP Huh? I'm a different generation. What?


As am I S701P, but you need to be not just a student of your job but the industry as a whole lest the lessons of the past be forgotten. 1989.

[Pinky the pilot]

Concur with Capn Bloggs.:ok:

[S70IP]

Yeah ok. I just thought it started on 18 August. Wasn't sure of what happened on 24 August.

[VH-UFO]

I could imagine you writing that in the 'circle' on That70's Show with a big hooch hangin' out your mouth; YEAH MAAANNNN!!!

[Wally Mk2]

Interesting post 'Sherm' from the heart no doubt & a good read but I doubt it will have any effect although well meaning for the future of Australian aviation.
Enough water has passed under the aviation bridge now that it's a very diff landscape with an ever increasing pilot group coming into the system that had nothing to do with WW3 & it won't be too many years when pretty much all the 89's will be but just a memory in the annuls of our at times ugly aviation industry.
The Australian Govt is mostly the problem & always has been as what we have here is a dysfunctional governing system that any forward long term planing (which not only involves aviation) is simply not possible due the short tenure of any particular political party that has the reigns. Business is dirty & that includes aviation.
The unions have less & less clout these days, '89 showed what was possible with a very poisoned Govt back then. Aviation is no longer a respected industry, it's just another form of transport (always has been) that we now see is affordable to those that once caught a Grey Hound bus to Syd.
Low fares, Airlines undercutting each other (they are their worst own enemies) the 'them & us' mentality & mass transport as common as going to the local corner store to buy milk means we the aviation employees are but just tools to be used, don't like it?....them leave there will be another one around the corner to fill yr pace. I love flying, always have & I try to put in 101% into any Co I work for but it's getting harder & harder to sustain that enthusiasm.

I feel for those that lost their future, their families back then near 25 yrs ago & their hope for without hope we have nothing. It changed my direction but & adjusted like we all have to do when a major event happens like that
.
Lets all 'HOPE' that we have learnt from that mess, learnt enough for the 'new breed' to cope with an every changing & mostly unknown industry that was once a proud part of Australia's past.

Humans are very tolerant, we adapt & get on with the job & we Aussies are a tuff bunch at times:ok:

The above is just an opinion.


Wmk2

[Captain Dart]

As an '89er, I find it gratifying that today is also significant in that it is only fourteen more sleeps until yet another Labor government is given the boot. :D

Why the Australian populace has its dalliance with these clowns every decade or so is beyond me.

[004wercras]

We can also stop to reflect on the ones who took their lives after the 89 dispute.
R.I.P

[Wally Mk2]

"Darty" I hear ya there. I think that Aussies tend to 4get quickly when it comes to politics & the circus that it is. As I mentioned above 3 yrs in any one term is simply not enuf time to make a difference here in Oz where we are an inherent lazy society thanks to our easy & laid back way of life.
The 'Kevin 07' lies promised lots of 'escapes' from the tyranny of the Howard regime as we paid dearly to keep this country in the black then & when good 'old Kev came along with lots of stimulus idea's the gen public fell for it hook line & sinker just to get relief from little Johnny's way of keeping us afloat in a heavy handed rules boat, we soon learned that Uncle Kev was evil underneath so once again the circus cranks up the merry-go-round for yet another 'ride' where we 'pay' for it big time :ugh:!

Thread drift I know but one thing leads to another on any subject that has a political cynical undercurrent to it.

Wmk2

[Captain Dart]

Not really thread drift, Wally, the events of 'that year' were very closely linked to Llayba Pardy politics.

The three companies involved no longer exist, but many of us are still pilots, and there is a quiet little gathering being planned at a certain regional airport early next year for 'cleanskin' ex-Ansett crew; no wringing of hands or gnashing of teeth, but a fly-in, golf, catching up with old mates, food and of course 'liquid refreshment' aplenty.

[redned]

And while your all getting misty eyed about the glorious past,spare a thought about the poor buggers who were sent broke by this strike.Tourist enterprises in the north sent to the wall.Whole family businesses gone for good.The pilots dispute and the live cattle trade ban would be the two dumbest things ive seen in my entire life.

[Captain Sherm]

Sigh....there's always one isn't there. This was meant to be positive.

I made no reference to a glorious past....because, except for solidarity, it wasn't. My aim was to remember difficult times and try to learn lessons from them, including the need for healing. As for the length of the Dispute (no it wasn't a strike), I refer you to the late Mr. Abeles, Mr Hawke, Mr Kelty, Mr Crean and Mr Murdoch.

If the Dispute and the live cattle ban are the two worst things you've ever seen you do indeed live in a privileged little bubble. And yet it clearly brings you no joy.

I wish you well. I hope the rest of us can make some positive steps in the year ahead. I really do.

[Centaurus]

The unions have less & less clout these days

Thank goodness for that. Mind you, the AWU, the mining industry, maritime industry and not forgetting the CFMEU the bugbear of all governments State or Federal. They certainly have clout with multi-millions of $ to pay for fines...

[haughtney1]

Why the Australian populace has its dalliance with these clowns every decade or so is beyond me.

Simple Darty, the political class need reminding every now and them for whom they work for.
Typically 2 1/2 terms creates an arrogant administration, 1 term of labour...and all is forgiven...:E

[AnQrKa]

Yes, times have changed.

Its amazing how many of those unionists from that year have become managers and chief pilots that now screw down the very same wages and conditions they once fought for.

Money talks.

[redned]

Sherm,i didn't say worst event in my time,i said dumbest.My family tourist business was shut down for good during the dispute.Darwin was devastated.There were a lot of innocent victims during that time,but it seems the domestic pilots are/were totally unaware of that fact.

[Jack Ranga]

Captain Sherm, rest assured that some of us learnt valuable lessons from the dispute. Wasn't involved, a fraction young but it certainly guided my choices, decisions when it came to aviating :ok:

Redned, any group in Australia has the right to withdraw their labour, it is a fundamental right in any democracy. I've done it myself and respect that right greatly. You are bitching at the wrong side of this argument. ;)

[B772]

RIP to the fallen, including Cabin Crew and the husband and wife pair.

[amos2]

...and deaths due stress in all the airlines involved, of pilots as well as wives and the suicides that have never been mentioned!

God bless them all.

[sheppey]

As for the length of the Dispute (no it wasn't a strike),

Dispute or Strike.. A rose by any other name, comes to mind.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" isa commonly quoted part of a dialogue in William Shakespeare's play Romeo andJuliet, in which Juliet argues that the names of things do not matter, onlywhat things "are".

[Kharon]

Hamlet : Thrift, thrift, Horatio! the funeral baked meats
Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables.
Would I had met my dearest foe in heaven
Or ever I had seen that day, Horatio!
It's a little esoteric; but I wonder how much unquantifiable damage was inflicted on 'families', friendships, individual happiness and well being that little dust up left behind. The legacy left through divorce or separation, the plain misery of needing to leave home to earn a crust and pay the mortgage or school fees. In dollars and cents a figure could probably be agreed on, but in human terms –

Aye well: the wheel turns, the dead are buried, wounds are healed and the true horror of the conflict forgotten; it's a very necessary, self protective human trait. But I'll raise a glass or two in quiet remembrance with a couple of 49'ers and 89'ers; then let it slide away. History will continue to repeat itself I expect; but next time it does, look for me in a quiet corner, farthest away from the fire, knitting socks for the troops.

Selah.

[Flying Bear]

I was a tad young in '89 to be involved in all this, however was old enough to know what career I wanted to pursue...

In that year, I was in high school watching the whole thing unfold and seeing my "heroes" being torn apart by a Labor government (seemingly amazingly). I also recall needing to travel to see relatives urgently and being bungled into the back of a C-130 for a rather slow and noisy trip to Townsville...

The thing that had me confused (and still does, despite my (admittedly) not greatly in depth research on the event) is how can a union be so thoroughly bashed by a Bob Hawke Labor government? I appreciate that the disruption to the country's infrastructure and the impact on business would be enough to "poke the bear" big time, but the support of the government to allow airlines to sue pilots personally and forfeit the protection of their assets / super etc - well, it seems to me like there was something greater at stake that I have missed.

These days, many in these forums who advocate strongly for the AFAP also bay for the blood of a Labor government. Forgive me, but wouldn't AFAP (or any union) be better off under that side of politics?

In my time in the industry I note that the AFAP has never really been a strong force (certainly not like the AWU, CFMEU, or other labour unions, etc) - so if anyone can provide those of us too young to have understood the intricacies of the time a short / clear explanation, I'd be appreciative. Regarding the history of '89, I recall an older gentleman pilot being introduced to me but before he would acknowledge me or shake my hand in greeting, he literally pulled out a notebook to see if I was what was / is known as a "scab" (I recall being mildly offended, as for him to think I am that old was a blow...:sad:)

Personally, I'm no unionist, but certainly respect history in the hope that we learn it's lessons to avoid repeating them. This is a genuine request for a summarised education on the issue, before anyone thinks I am playing "troll".

[Marauder]

Flying Bear

Basically Hawke and his government were dead in the water.

He needed a diversion, and interfered in what should have been a minor industrial issue, aided and abetted by his great mate Abels, and Murdoch who controller public opinion via News Ltd

A morally bankrupt Hawke got re-elected and did not give a flying rats @rse about any collateral damage

[Anthill]

You might want to add, Marauder, that AFAP acted outside the advice of the ACTU. AFAP also ignored directives from The Industrial Relations Commission. These 2 factors put them outside the 'protection' of a so-called pro-union Labour Party. The ALP only supports the working man when he does as he is told.:hmm:

[ranmar850]

The Australian Pilots Dispute of 1989 by Alex Paterson (http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/aviation/pd89_document.htm#PROFESSION%20OF%20PILOT)

To Flying Bear, and others too young to remember--For a pilots perspective on the whole ugly thing. This is a very comprehensive summary of the whole affair. Biased? Certainly written from one mans perspective, well written nonetheless. Accurate? Rings of truth, although that will obviously vary with your personal viewpoint. It bought back some memories for me of the era.:ok:

[Captain Sherm]

To return to the thread's theme....

Every soldier who completes the Israeli Defence Force basic training climbs to the top of the mountain fortification known as Massada which fell to the Romans after a long siege about 2000 years back. At the summit they take the oath...."Never again shall Massada fall"

I would like the year ahead to be a similar "Never again" aspirational and healing year leading the the 25th Anniversary of the Dispute. Never again will pilot be pitted against pilots, never again will the voice of Australia's pilots be muted, or divided, or disregarded, never again will pilots be forced to choose between good decisions and decisions that secure their jobs.

Healing, unity and learning from history.......three fundamental foundations of the future of our profession.

We seek them with diligence and enthusiasm....or ignore them at our peril. To put your own career and bank balance ahead of the collective good....is to imperil all, most especially yourself.

There endeth the sermon. If you'd like to know more, or have some positive plans on how to use this year well.....PM me.

Captain Sherm

[Captain Dart]

I've still got my list.

[Ollie Onion]

My god, flew with a Captain a while ago who with great pride showed me his 'scab list'. To be honest I couldn't really of cared less, I have read some excellent information on the 89' dispute, but to be honest the fact that I was in college at the time means I have absolutely NO interest in listening to who used to be a scab and who wasn't.

I understand that, for those who were around at the time feelings run deep. I prefer to take people as I find them and find it really unhelpful to be 'prewarned' about my colleagues because of something they did 24 years ago. The saddest thing from my point of view about the 89' dispute is that 24 years later we are still a 'fractured' community who are incapable of united together to stop the rot in our terms and conditions.

Not only did the choices made back then radically change the lives of many, they continue to change the lives of people today. Just don't ask me to dislike someone I have to fly with because, in your opinion, they were on the wrong side back then.

[BEAU JOKER]

Ollie,
I too find it amazing that after 24yrs, the '89' dispute is still festering. Those Australian '89' pilots are worse than little children playing in a sandpit.
To 'proudly show his list of scabs' does show the true character of the man who you were unfortunately crewed with. These characters have no place in the flight decks of 'millennium airlines' ie. the post dinosaur age.
Their 'baggage' is unwelcome and should be buried '6 feet UNDER'.
However, there is ONE GOOD thing that occurs every 24Aug anniversary - it is ONE year closer to the day when ALL '89' generation pilots are no longer part of the crews that we younger 'post dinosaur age' pilots comprise.

I fully expect a tirad of abuse- more like a tsunami ? - to appear here as the sun rises over 33°56′46″S 151°10′38″E (http://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Sydney_Airport&params=33_56_46_S_151_10_38_E_type:airport_region:AU-NSW) which is in approx. 8hrs.:(

[Zapatas Blood]

"I would like the year ahead to be a similar "Never again" aspirational"

Ok Ok, I have one.

"Never again will I surrender my own personal opinion to a bunch of self interested industrially naive legally incompetent twits into professionally doom again.

Never!!!!!