Binary

[Capetonian]

I read somewhere that there are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

We have a remote controller for the outside gate. It has 10 switches, each is either up or down.

It doesn't work since I dropped it whilst changing the battery, I can only assume that one of the switches - cheap and nasty - has moved. I've tried changing each, one by one, and lost patience.

As a matter of interest, how many combiantations are there?

[MacBoero]

2^10 combinations = 1024

If the switches are there to set a code that needs to match the receiver, is there are similar set of switches at the receiver you can copy?

[Capetonian]

I thought 2 to the power of 10 too ..........

There is a set of similar switches inside the receiver number 1-10. All down except No. 2.

Set the switches on the transmitter to the same - doesn't work.
Set the switches on the transmitter to the opposite - all up except No. 2 - still doesn't work.

Stumped or what?

[le Pingouin]

You did drop it so cheap and nasty soldering could have broken as well.

[MacBoero]

The next step I would take is identify if possible the manufacturer and see if they have any useful information online.

[Avionker]

Are the switches in the transmitter also numbered?

[Capetonian]

Switches in receiver numbered 1-10.
1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 DOWN
2 UP

Switches in transmitter numbered 1-10
1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 DOWN
2 UP

Maybe key cutting man (who 'specialises' in remote control units) speaks with forked tongue, but he tells me that this is not the magic bullet. He says the switches in the receiver control the functions of the gate opener (how long it stays open for etc) and that there is another unit which I can reprogramme to match the transmitter, but then the neighbours remotes won't work ............... I think he's talking ****.

I would like to go back to the days of having a garden boy in Rhodesia who was on watch 24/7 and opened and closed the gates as we came and went with a cheery wave and 'morning baas'! None of this electronic ****tery.

[Avionker]

I would have thought that the only function of the switches would be to "pair" the Tx with the Rx. I suspect that there is some damage to the Tx from the drop. Do you know the make and model of the equipment?

[Capetonian]

We have two, both worked before, only one was dropped. I knocked the switches in the process of changing the batteries and I think that is the problem. The key man says his equipment doesn't read the signal they put out, but he can confirm that both are putting out a signal.

[Avionker]

So the Tx that you didn't drop, and which I assume you have not altered any switch positions on, does not work either?

[Capetonian]

No, it works with another transmitter of a different type, which is doesn't have the tumbler switches. Altogether we have 4, and the two which are the same type don't work.

The lock man says he can't code the 'switch' ones from the electronic ones, but could do it the other way round, but the 'switch' ones have the wrong code now.

[Loose rivets]

Right, off you go. 0000000001 - test. 0000000010 - test . . . phew, only another 1022 to go.

The thing is with electronics, you always have to be thinking laterally. Just what did that fall do? Just what happened when you changed the batteries? How much of a trap can be created by two factors both effecting it at the same time?

I'm perplexed by two controllers being the only ones switched. Perhaps your man is right and the receiver's switches do control other functions and the programed code is achieved another way . . . or maybe fixed.

I certainly would start by working with the switch in the original position, and looking for something else. On the very old units, some selection was done with a punched strip clamped in a plastic block about the size of a medium sized computer chip. Sprung connections were made through the holes.

[Unixman]

Not sure if this is exactly the answer to your problem but give it a go:

You have 10 switches. Put 5 on and 5 off. Does it work? If yes then the fault lies with the 5 that are off.

Reverse the switches (On to Off and Off to On). It shouldn't work. Select 3 of the ones that are now on and put them off. Does it work? Then one of the the 3 switches are duff and so on ....

[Loose rivets]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! It don't work like that.

[BOAC]

Cape - quite often these controllers have a LED that lights when you 'transmit'. If it does, does it?

[Guest 112233]

The number of combinations of 2 from 10 choices is 45 - Still a bit of a job though

I Know what has happened the perm 0000010001 for example has been counted twice.

So we produce a work table as follows:

1100000000 0110000000 0011000000 0001100000 0000110000 .........
1010000000 0101000000 0010100000 0001010000 0000101000
1001000000 0100100000 0010010000 0001001000 0000100100
1000100000 0100010000 0010001000 0001000100 0000100010
1000010000 0100001000 0010000100 0001000010 0000100001
1000001000 0100000100 0010000010 0001000001
1000000100 0100000010 0010000001
1000000010 0100000001
1000000001

You can see how its going to turn out but you will get there. 9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 i.e 45

You can do this for both switch sets but the formatting is too difficult to post.

CAT III

Edit: Unixman I know what you were thinking of but its not a single digit binary problem.

[Loose rivets]

The number of combinations of 2 from 10 choices is 45


As I see it, there is ONE switch set to the second position. i.e. Binary 1. This switch simply happens to be number two in a row of ten.


Cape, are these switches physically independent of each other? I had imagined a DIP switch - (dual In-line Pin molding with ten little red slider switches.)


Edit to say: Having said this, ten switches (twenty pins into the circuit board) would be bigger than I've ever seen in an early PC.)


Right, off you go. 0000000001 - test. 0000000010 - test . . . phew, only another 1022 to go.


My tongue in cheek comment does of course assume any combinations of up and down settings. Obviously only one switch would be a doddle by comparison.





.

[green granite]

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a new one? Electric Gate Remotes replacement gate remote transmitter key-fobs (http://www.gateremotes.co.uk/?gclid=COelouXFmrkCFXLLtAodnFkAJg)

[Guest 112233]

I did the table as you suggested but its too difficult to post here the formatting is a pain.(in Excel)

The answer is the same though. (45 solutions) - There is a lot of duplication sample of table below

Sorry I cannot post the table.

CAT III

[Loose rivets]

I can't understand why the other unit isn't going. Just coincidence? I used to carry a pillowcase full of (unboxed) valves for tuning accurately. All to do with chance messing up the equation. Thems were the days.


I had vast steel doors on my Frinton home. None of those tinsel ones they supply these days. The real half-horse motor had its power conveyed by a huge motorcycle-type chain to doors that would chop a Lotus in half. An no, they did not have a detector to stop them.

They were actioned by a loop in the drive and a chatterbox in the car sending pulses to a coil. When my mate (who built the house) was given the loop, he said, no, it looks like a ring of wood with wire round it. The builders said, gosh ( or something like that ) we've buried that thing in the drive. They drilled up an 8" thick drive to get it and set in the correct one.

This loop sent pulses to a cold-cathode valve in a big steel box. It all worked - if you got the car in the right place. Also, lightning would set it off - and one stormy day, there was a Lotus half way in. That's how I know.:p Not quite in half, but may as well have been.

In about 1975 I brought back a Geni Door controller system from Texas. The two 'beepers' were still going 25 years later.

One last memory, then I must do some work. Wife arrives in E-Type with a police car following her. They were all smiles, and just wanted to know what the round wooden thing was under the tail of the car. 'Thought it might be a mine.' said the smiley Bobbie.

[Capetonian]

If I buy a new one it means that the receiver will have to be re-coded to match the new one, and the existing transmitters (except the dip-switch ones which are now u/s) will also have to be re-coded or they won't work. I do wonder if the lock man is building his empire here.

I am about to employ a doorman to do the job!

[Loose rivets]

Pretty much, the receiver will only detect a pulse of the right frequency with mark-space modulation. Often such a simple module is separate from the gate sequencing etc., and come with a 'beeper' as a set. If it's all one board, then you need a good young lad doing electronics as a hobby.;)


Such a set could almost certainly be added to whatever was in the receiver box - the original receiver having been decommissioned.

[Synthetic]

If each button has an individual code rather than being a 1 or a 0, then the number of combinations would be 10 factorial (10x9x8x7x6x5x4x3x2x1) which is 3628800.

[Keef]

We had one of these systems in the garage in Essex. "Her" beeper always opened it. Mine never did. Not that it mattered: it was billed as a two car garage in the sales particulars, but in reality that only worked if one of the two cars was a bicycle. Since she was last out and first home, her car went in the garage and mine stayed on the drive.

Eventually her beeper wore out - it was a pretty flimsy thing. I tried to buy a new one.
Ah no, sir, the EU has changed the frequency they work on and we can't sell you a 416 MHz one. You'll have to move to the new 800MHz band. Oh, and that means a new receiver. Oh, and our new model receiver doesn't work with the controller and motor system you have, and the linkage to the door has been upgraded and ...

... so that would be <some silly sum in thousands of pounds> because a little placcy bit in her beeper had broken.

Which is where my non-working but unused beeper came in. I dismantled them both, and made one good (working) one.

It was still working when we sold the house.