Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged) [Archive]

PlankBlender

15th Jul 2009, 19:18

Another vote for YLIL, if it's close there's really no contest. Has everything you'll need and a friendly place from what I know.

Don't worry about learning to fly in older machines, pretty much right up to CPL you'll only need very basic instrumentation, and your dollars will buy more hours if looking at shiny new GPS units and big screens isn't aestethically important to you. Pretty much everything in the CPL syllabus can be done in a very basic aeroplane without many bells and whistles. Yup it's nice to take a great machine for a long nav, but then for those hour building occasions there are plenty of cross-hire options around Melbourne. Not something you need to worry about at first, though.

Once you're up to the instrument rating if that's where you want to go, better equipment becomes more vital (just look at the Benalla accident, a very similar GPS malfunction with a position given by a Trimble 2000 that was dozens of miles out actually happened to me on a training flight, but we had a Garmin 430 also..), but Lilydale has some options there too; I know the owner who hires out his YLIL-based Travelair for advanced training and his is one mighty fine aeroplane :ok:

VH-XXX

16th Jul 2009, 00:11

Planky is now the GPS expert I see.

So Planky, did you report your GPS issue to CASA / ATSB as an incident report when it failed on you, being a certified model?

I'd also like to hear your crash analysis on the Benalla crash if you have time, perhaps another thread can be created for that one?

PlankBlender

16th Jul 2009, 07:46

XXX, you just had to stir again, ey? :zzz:

Again not going to bite, although it is tempting. :p

wawa yaka mynmak

17th Aug 2013, 11:58

Use the information in this post at your own risk.

Having read some of the posts in recent time, here is a summary addressing some key points.

Don't expect to find a job purely by sending out emails or making cold calls to operators. Unfortunately it is a fact of life in this industry that you will have to eventually pack up all you life in your car and pack up shop. Yes, some do get lucky and have picked up jobs over the phone, but it doesn't happen often. Don't be rude to the operations person on the other end of the phone/desk. CV's have been binned on the spot purely because the potential employee was rude and belligerent to the staff on the front desk. Remember: how you present yourself to general staff, will be scrutinized.

"It's not what you know, it's who you know." This line bodes well in our industry. It can work in your favor and it can also work against you. For your first job; hit up all your mates who have "made it" and see if their operators' are hiring. If not, read the first paragraph. Having said that; if you know very little about your chosen profession come interview time, say goodbye to that potential job.

Take care when writing your CV. Spelling mistakes and grammatical errors will always tarnish a potential's chance of getting an interview.

Just remember though: once you're established in your job; your reputation might make or break you down the track. Keep your head down, work hard and the rest will follow. - The aviation industry is like any other, it is very small so don't go rubbing too many people the wrong way.

Don't expect to find that first job right away, it will take time. Find another casual position outside of flying until something else pops up.

If you do gain an opportunity to have a sit down with a potential employer; do yourself a favor and present well. A business attire works well eg: Black slacks, button shirt, or pilot's uniform without bars and wings. - I have seen many potentials walk through the door and sit down, only to disappoint themselves by wearing shorts, t-shirt, jeans etc. This is your only opportunity to make that first impression, make it count!

150 hour pilots do get charter positions. - I have had the privilege of sitting in on interviews with a few 150 hour pilots who have gone onto become proficient pilots. - I was given my first charter job with 170 odd hours and we all had 150 hours at the start of our careers.

Your first 500 hours Total time will be the hardest to get, then your first twin, turbo prop and so on. Many I know of took at least 18 months to gather those first 500 hours. They got there by: station flying, private ops, remote charter operations etc. After that, it's all downhill from there.

Don't turn your nose down at the opportunity of being posted to a remote community. - Flying is only the half of the journey, the other half is the character building experience. Your closest mates will be made by the hardships sometimes faced in these remote areas and they will become your friends for life. You will depend on them and they will depend on you when times are tough. You will find that flying is only 20% of the job and by far the easiest.

You will screw up at some time. Be honest, and own up to whatever mistake you have made. - Your integrity is on the line. Those who deceive others, will eventually be found out and disciplined. Re-read the paragraph on "it's a small industry."

Your aircraft performance/weight and balance charts/checklists will save you from a scare/embarrassment to potentially your life. Use these with diligence and due care. The flight manual on the aircraft is your "bible." If things are looking tight, it is time to look at the figures.

If something doesn't feel or look right, it generally isn't. - It will take time to develop this "sixth sense." Swallow your pride and ask your senior pilots, as no doubt they would have found themselves in similar situations. Try and fill that bag of experience, before the bag of luck runs out.

Don't give up on your dream. Many have dropped out along the way after spending their hard earned cash to gain their CPL.

If it's time to move onto another operator: just remember, that it is far easier to find another job to go to whilst still being employed.

Just because you're in the bush, by yourself and not under the direct scrutiny of your Chief Pilot; Don't use this as an excuse to become ill disciplined in your flying. Bad habits are easy to form but hard to break! Low flying, beat ups and formation flying will not be tolerated by either your employer or CASA. At the end of the day, it's your licence, livelihood and your company's AOC on the line. It just isn't worth the risk and you only have to look at some of the ATSB's reports that are around to see that others have died because of this.

Above all: Have fun, enjoy the experience and take plenty of photos. You're in General Aviation for a good time, not a long time!

Enjoy.

farmer dan

18th Aug 2013, 01:01

Couldn't agree more. Great post!

DancingDog

18th Aug 2013, 01:05

Sticky? :ok:

maxgrad

18th Aug 2013, 01:39

Well stated and accurate.
Definitely sticky worth.

Might pin this up on the front door of work

marianoberna

18th Aug 2013, 02:11

I think this is worth a Sticky ;)

Flying Bear

18th Aug 2013, 05:07

Most of the advice I'd offer has been encapsulated in the OP.

The addition is that it is worth remembering that progression should be seen as an outcome and consequence of good DEVELOPMENT.

This means that 500 hrs in the logbook does not entitle one to a first twin - rather, what the CP and other decision makers expect is that the newbie generally keeps his mouth shut (unless to ask a question) and his eyes / ears open and listens to the advice being offered by any mentors in the organisation. Furthermore, it is important that the effort is made to APPLY the knowledge being passed on. Commercial flying is a lot different to CPL training in a flying school environment! Find the right mentor and you'll learn how to do it safely and well.

Wally Mk2

18th Aug 2013, 05:15

Yep a good overall description of what to do & what not to do, well put 'wym'
A lot of it common sense but I guess common sense isn't being taught to much anymore.

Shame though that fewer & fewer will need such advice in the future as there won't be the traditional flying route to get to that big shinny jet.

I guess the end of an era is now really stating to show.

Wmk2

717tech

18th Aug 2013, 05:23

Great post mate!

Flying Bear

18th Aug 2013, 21:31

And another thing...

Just got back from an early morning flight, checked my e-mail and saw a resume / covering letter with the following:

"I hold a fATPL with 1090 flight hours..."

I will presume the "f" means frozen.

Can I please get one thing off my chest for those seeking a start / subsequent job in the industry - you do not hold a "frozen ATPL", you are the holder of a CPL with passes in ATPL subjects!

Grrr...

Now seeking coffee!

mcgrath50

18th Aug 2013, 22:36

Flying Bear (or other CPs),

On my resume I currently have my CPL listed in qualifications then under education (further down the page) I have Passes in all ATPL subjects. Should I put CPL with passes in ATPL subjects up or is it much of a muchness?

Also when listing hours, some have suggested rounding down to the nearest whole number for neatness as much as anything (eg; 378.4 is listed as 378) what are your thoughts on this?

This thread looks like it will be another pprune classic that should be mandatory reading when completing a CPL!

Mick Stuped

19th Aug 2013, 00:40

FB
Agree completely with you an all that have posted on this thread. From an owners point of view I see our CP blood pressure rising slowly over the last few years as it seems that newbies come demanding a job with the attitude of what can you do for me not the other way round.

We have always had a policy of giving pilots first job in the industry. We take our responsibility of giving back to industry very seriously and as an owner it's a great feeling when you invest a lot of time and frustration in developing a newby into a confident strong experienced decision maker, with great stick and rudder, skills to see them move onto the next stage of their career. We have had a feeling of pride a lot of times to board a heavy somewhere in the world to hear a familiar voice and name then have them thank us for the start and tough love and basic commercial skills.

Newbies come into this industry with a dream that's what drives every one on. However loose the attitude. We don't care about ATPL in fact you are rubbing our nose in the fact that we as charter employers are only a step for you, that you will leave us as soon as you can. A lot of our past employees have gone onto do ATPL after 1000 hours of charter time and said they are so glad to have done this later as so much made more sense after doing real commercial time and helped them into RPT as it also refreshed them and helped revisit areas of op's they knew they were deficient in.

Come to your first job as a blank canvas. You have basic skills, remember you are starting as an apprentice. Your main job is to make your boss money so he can stay in business and give the next pilot a job.

The most important skills you are about to learn is about profitable operations. How you treat and look after your tools(aircraft), how to profitably manage fuel and plan for high stressful situations. How to adapt quickly to changing situations and remain professional and smiling the whole way through.

There are so many things that are to be learnt in small charter that are just not taught in textbooks or cadet ships. Unless you are a natural gun and breezed through all CPL subjects with high 90's on first attempt and found all your practical flying and planning easy go for a cadet ship. If not, then sorry charter miles is the only way up.

To go north hunting a job this is basically what you will require.

100-200 command time. We look at TT to judge how hard it was for you to learn your basic skills and if you have spent to much duel time training then you are best looking for another career as whoever has trained you never gave you that advice an just plainly stole your money.
20 hours on a 200 series Cessna will be an advantage. (Insurance minim times are getting tighter.)
Willingness to sweep hangers, pickup freight,refuel aircraft and turn up for work each day happy with a smile.

Come with an attitude of, what can I do to help, will get you in the door. Prove you want to learn. Ask lots of questions.

Apart from a few bad operators that most rumour mills know about most operators are not there to rip you off with cheap labour it is a way of trailing your keenness and patience. When a spot is available you will be first in a seat. Don't expect big wages for a start as it costs us a lost seat or freight weight to put the CP in next to you and usually longer days, the operation still has to balance books. Your wages will increase as your skills do.

Hope this gives some insight into employment from the other side of the fence. We generally all love to fly and the industry as much as you. We all started at the same basic level. Some of us had a dream to run their own business other to hand on their skills to others and other to fly the big things around to world. It's a responsible job as lives are involved at any level. No other way really of getting were you dream easily. It's hard work, miles and willingness to learn that will make your career.

the_rookie

19th Aug 2013, 10:18

Great thread and great replies! Mick do you have an email dress that I can send some questions to? Cheers, rookie

Mick Stuped

20th Aug 2013, 08:25

Rookie
Best you post any questions you may have in this forum so that all get to see any advice that comes out of your questions. It will also allow advice from other directions that maybe better than advice I can offer.

It was from frustration that I posted the last message as I understand fully were the thread started as we also are bombarded with so many employment requests and the same mistakes are being made time and time again in approaches to us.

We now don't even advertise jobs and protect our email addresses as the modern age of technology means we get bombarded with so many employment requests, that it is becoming a problem as big as spam. To tell you the truth, only one or two per every 100 submissions even meet our basic criteria as mentioned in my blog.

Our CP still likes to see a potential pilot do the cold call and introduce themselves and have a chat. Sometimes it may take a few visits before you even get to meet the CP. Its not that we are arrogant and don't want to meet you, its because usually we are very busy and don't have the time. Ask if we have a preferable time and be prepared to come back. We feel this shows they are keener than someone just sitting at home on a computer sending off mail blasts to every operator thinking they we will contact you with a job offer. Doesn't work like that, sorry. :=

As an example we put an add out in the electronic media a couple of years ago for a basic line pilot as a first job. That resulted in 148 applications and resumes in the first 24 hours. Some 36 came through in the first 4 hours of posting the add. We had to take the add down before we got swamped.

We are only a small charter company so I can imagine how frustrated the bigger higher profile guys get with so many requests. I have been told by some of them that they end up setting up a special email address for this very reason and delete anything on their other email addresses that look like a CV without opening.

So rookie nothing personal we just don't give email address out to anyone we don't know.

wawa yaka mynmak

20th Aug 2013, 10:37

mcgrath50

Flying Bear (or other CPs),

On my resume I currently have my CPL listed in qualifications then under education (further down the page) I have Passes in all ATPL subjects. Should I put CPL with passes in ATPL subjects up or is it much of a muchness?

Also when listing hours, some have suggested rounding down to the nearest whole number for neatness as much as anything (eg; 378.4 is listed as 378) what are your thoughts on this?

This thread looks like it will be another pprune classic that should be mandatory reading when completing a CPL!

If you're really that keen on putting whole numbers, I would write 378. If it were my CV I would just round to 380, 375 or 370. Take your pick, just don't blatantly lie and tell your potential employer you have a lot more experience than you actually, do or falsify your logbook.

There was a time where we all could recall to the decimal place how many hours we had in our logbook. Don't fall into this trap, just tally the numbers at the end of the page and get a pleasant surprise when you hit whatever target you've set yourself. The kettle will always take longer to boil if you sit and watch it. There will come a time where your logbook becomes a chore to fill in.

Speaking of numbers: Try and take any opportunity you can to clock up some night as these are the hardest numbers to put in your logbook. Some considerations when doing so: Weather (don't get caught out by unforecast fog or take your 210 through CB's during the wet), duty times, CP's/Operations' permission, aircraft serviceability, currency, previous experience, black hole approach etc. With the change in ATPL requirements needing a flight test to gain an ATPL, self regulated early starts and late finishes to gain these hours may be a thing of the past.

Would suggest you take two torches with you during night ops. Keep one accessible in your nav bag and one on your belt. Keep one on, and in between your legs ready to grab when in critical phases of flight ie: Takeoff, Landing and in IMC. You don't want to lose your lights and not having a backup in hand, especially a during a departure in the wet. A green/red adjustable brightness torch is superior so you don't go blinding yourself when you turn it on. If you're a crafty person, you will find a way to jam it in between your headset band and head. LED's are superior to normal filament bulbs as they will last the test of time. Also keep plenty of spare batteries in that mighty captain's briefcase you purchased.

Everything you purchase should have a practical application to your job. There isn't much point of buying that said briefcase if you've got no where to put it in the aircraft. Small and flexible is the key. Backpacks, messenger bags, helmet bags, small pilot's bags etc work well. Come to an understanding that you won't be able to fit much under your knees or in between the pilot's seats of the aircraft you are going to fly. There isn't much point of putting your flight bag in a baggage locker. Try as you might, your documents wont be accessible when you need them!

Hydration: Camelbaks etc fit well in between pilot seats. Trust me, you will need all three litres of water that it contains by lunchtime when working a 12 hour multi sector day in the top end. Keep sunscreen and hand sanitizer in the pockets of your hydration pack/ chosen flight bag. Why hand sanitizer you may ask? You will know when the time comes... :yuk:

Clothing: Wear whatever your company dictates uniform wise. In the bush? Wear sensible shoes and a hat. Leather shoes? Don't buy anything that will last you a month or so before the sole wears through - Anything that you would normally wear to the races/formal functions will not stand the test of time! I would suggest smart looking boots of a known brand/quality. The environment that your footware is operating in is very different to footware that was designed for an office worker and will last as such. Gravel and tarmac are very abrasive and will destroy your shoes in weeks, not years.

Communication: You're kidding yourself if you think one of the discount mobile providers are going to provide you such a service in remote Australia. There is only one telco that will provide service to the areas that you're going to operate in. Keep a spare charger in your flight bag. If you get stuck somewhere, you will have wished you had packed one.

Navigation: Bring a handheld GPS with you that will withstand the test of time. Wouldn't recommend touch screens due to turbulence. Leave it on the dash in the hot sun at your own peril. Also your boss will not be happy if he catches you wedging said GPS in between the windscreen and the dash. You were warned.

Sam_25

7th Sep 2013, 13:52

Hi,

I am Indian resident and i have a passion to become a pilot from childhood. My qualification is BSc. Computing with Software engineering from UK. At present my age is 28 and i weight 97kg. But i am working hard to reduce weight.
Don't have any flying experience. Hence i need to start from scratch.

In India pilot training school are not good, it is very expensive, some school are tired up with foreign pilot training school, fees are too high, duration of courses are long which incur more tuition fees, main reason all old model flight. Whereas if i complete the training in foreign then i can save years.

q1] What is the maximum age to become a pilot?

q2] Don't want to work for Indian airlines? Therefore planning to take course in abroad? Hence please let me know which school is best for it, which provides more flying hrs and fees are less? i need flight experience in both day and night?

q3] After completion of pilot training, how easy it is to get a job as an international student? i don't want to convert into DGCA licence. i just want to settle in abroad after finishing my training and get a job over there.

q4] Which country is much expensive?

Bye

pistinaround

8th Sep 2013, 08:55

Nice wind up but you tried a little to hard this time !

Buttscratcher

8th Sep 2013, 08:59

Airplanes make fast like burning pig

triathlon

8th Sep 2013, 11:24

You gotta love it.

004wercras

8th Sep 2013, 11:38

Naughty Gobbledock, are you **** stirring again?

VT-ASM

8th Sep 2013, 12:14

Why don't we start with English lessons and losing some attitude first ?

SOPS

8th Sep 2013, 13:02

Wind up alert

Ozavatar

8th Sep 2013, 13:02

Frankly speaking I am yet to come across an English born who haven't had trouble spelling words and if u happen to know , we don't speak English here , we speak Australian ;)

Jokes aside, if you are from India and wants to pursue your passion into aviation then take my advise and stay the fcuk out of the land down under.
You will have more choices landing a job in India or Asia than to any westen country right now unless you are born with good fortune( I meant dollars here)

Before you venture into your passion, aviation is a long hard road and you would often find numb nuts like the above who has nothing else to share but bunch of bollocks and of course they are good at it it's part of their grammar here .

All the best.For future reference , seek professional help from your friends who are already in aviation and whom you can trust

Cheers

pistinaround

8th Sep 2013, 13:24

we don't speak English here , we speak Australian

Yeah that would still be English !

Wally Mk2

8th Sep 2013, 13:41

..........ya gotta luv the Aussie attitude, straight to the point in any language!

With the internet being the medium of choice as far as communications go world wide you would think that we had an 8 gauge shot gun attached to our keyboard ready to take out anyone who isn't an Aussie & can spell like one!
We live in such a small world.

Advice to the poster, seek info directly from flying schools within Australia as help from here is unlikely to be accurate & unbiased.

Wmk2

Tinstaafl

8th Sep 2013, 18:38

Where you can be employed depends on where you are eligible for a working visa or can emigrate, if not already a citizen. Once you have that worked out then you need to work out what would be the necessary pilot licence for that/those countries and, if a foreign licence is acceptable (for use as is, or by some conversion process), what foreign licences are accepted.

Until then your question can't be answered properly.

Mach E Avelli

8th Sep 2013, 21:42

I will try to answer your questions as posed:

1. There is no maximum age to become a pilot. 80 year olds have qualified to be Private Pilots. But over 40 to 45 with a fresh Commercial Licence and no on- the-job experience, I doubt anyone would employ you. Simply because there are plenty of 20 year olds available at that level.

2. You do need some night flying - each country will have its own syllabus. Search via the various licencing websites eg: www.casa.gov.au (http://www.casa.gov.au) for Australia.

3. You won't find it easy to get a pilot job in Australia as an international student. You would be competing against our own young people looking for the same job, and as a former employer of pilots I can tell you that yes, we do favour our own. We are not being racist. I suspect it is the same everywhere else in the world.

4. I will answer this question in reverse. The cheapest place to learn to fly is most probably the USA. Get quotes, but ensure that they will handle the student visa requirements, because the Americans have become quite sensitive about people who want to learn take-offs but not landings.

Sam_25

9th Sep 2013, 15:56

Thanks Mach for replying to my post.

blackhand

19th Sep 2013, 06:08

Hey Mynmak
Hows Gove?
CHeers

wawa yaka mynmak

9th Oct 2013, 03:48

A few things that come into mind that I've seen of late.

Considerations to Airmanship and Discipline.

Airmanship can be learned from others and gained by experience. Airmanship is a broad term used to define a series of positive behaviours/abilities and of an awareness of the environment that we operate in.

To summarise: Use your head and don't be selfish.

Basic rookie errors:

Propwash - Have a think about where you're pointing the tail of your aircraft and how much power you're using. You wont make many friends with engineers if you go blasting dust through their hanger or blowing over cowling etc, while they have the aircraft apart. Your mates wont be happy when you blow their doors shut on them while they're trying to load freight etc.

Doors/Windows - Keep these shut while you aren't using them. Here is one for you to picture: Your hamfisted new work college, just checked to line on a C210, does a 180 tail to tail with you at 1700RPM while you're loading a person who has a stiff leg into the aircraft and not guarding the door. The door swings open, catches the prop wash and subsequently breaks of at the hinges. Embarrassment, a loss of an aircraft door and a please explain from the boss are going to be the consequences of the day. Personally I've seen the result of a 210 who's doors were left open overnight, have a Conquest start behind it and tear the doors clean off at the hinges on two separate occasions.

Be especially cautious of low winged aircraft and open storm windows in the wet. Moldy carpets and wet bums aren't much fun.

Parking: A daily struggle due to the lack of room, complicates parking. I see plenty of rookies parking directly behind aircraft to get 20m closer to the gate and blocking that aircraft in the designated parking area for the duration of their wait.

Aircraft Washing: Fairly straight forward. Nothing looks better than clean tyre rims and oleo struts. Avoid water etc around the static ports and pitot tubes.

Final walk arounds: Once your aircraft is loaded, take 30 seconds to do a quick lap of the aircraft. Make sure oil caps/doors are secure, baggage lockers are shut and locked, fuel caps are on, chocks are out, pitot cover is off and that dreaded passenger seatbelt is not hanging out the door. All these are easily missed and consequences vary from embarrassing yourself to potentially an off field landing.

If it's any advice that you take from this post, I would suggest that it's the "final walk arounds" as I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of us have been caught by at least one of these.

Fly safe out there.

Visual Procedures

9th Oct 2013, 04:54

If it's any advice that you take from this post, I would suggest that it's the "final walk arounds" as I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of us have been caught by at least one of these.

Otherwise known as the Last Minute Gross Negligence Check :ok:

Definitely, highly recommended. Many a clipboard/mobile phone have been saved by these :)

Shagpile

9th Oct 2013, 07:44

Ummm, isn't a final walk-around the normal thing to do? It's up here as something extra or special.

Edit: OK I'll value-add. My $0.02

- Be willing to say no to unsafe tasking.
- Write up any unserviceabilities. Don't accept a crap aircraft.

Hysteresis Error

5th Nov 2013, 02:13

Some great advice here

I want get back into flying and to aim for CPL level after I've finished myqualification (I'm currently an A.M.E. yr 4 avionics apprentice)

Would prospective employers see this qualification as much of an advantagewhen looking for my 1st flying gig?

Also, I have three young kids and will find traveling to the top end impossible.Is there any chance at all of finding a job in a more regional east coastcentre? (I'm in Cairns) or is that just un-heard of and wishful thinking?

Cheers

mcgrath50

5th Nov 2013, 13:09

I know of people who have gotten into 'desirable' GA companies as LAMEs then after a year or two moved across to flying but it's not guaranteed and all have started at the bottom of the pilot ladder. Like anything in GA, work hard and don't expect favourable treatment and you will make the opportunities happen.

bonzaii

22nd Nov 2013, 03:38

Technically im still a rookie, (350tt) but i got a couple

- photos on CVs with 4 bars and aviators will get your CV trashed. (that goes for interviews as well) AIRNZ say hire for attitude, train for excellence if that gives you an idea

- do not submit your CV to a company if you are not even close to the required hours, if you want to work for them in a few years and they remember the guy who submitted 500cvs over 6 months while hour building for his PPL

-if you get a reputation as "that guy" who doesnt follow rules or is unsafe, you will damage your chances later (especially if you want a job on a "who you know" basis)

-and lastly, dont post rubbish online, that goes for anything that has your real name attached, IE LinkedIN/Facebook/google+, and inclues posts, photos, and videos. employes may will check the main sites. bear it in mind

good luck

mogga04

11th Dec 2013, 00:17

Hi all,

I recently completed my CPL and MECIR. I'm currently working two jobs (60 to 70 hour weeks) in hope to save enough to fund a trip 'up north' before the start of the dry season.
I have a map of all the companies i plan to stop at along the way, but it's not many...
was hoping for some advice about companies that are willing to employ low time pilots and the best way to research and find these companies!

shpilot

11th Dec 2013, 11:26

Companies | Aircraft Registry (http://aircraftregistry.com.au/companies/)

Seems to have a fairly good list

mogga04

12th Dec 2013, 04:17

thank you,

felling pretty stupid I didn't know about this :ugh:

tmpffisch

12th Dec 2013, 05:19

felling pretty stupid I didn't know about this

Don't worry. Flight schools use photos of shiny airliners and 787 cockpits, and convince you if you purchase an instructor rating after your CPL, they'll give you a job and you'll be flying long haul 747's for Qantas after 2 years (regardless that they haven't recruited in 5 years). The reality is far from that, and it's hard to develop an understanding of the industry in Australia as a student; let alone from the typical 22 year old instructor!

mogga04

12th Dec 2013, 10:29

true, they suggested i got a instructor rating to help with with work but i really didn't want to..so i said no

then i was told go north and good luck

aphexau

12th Dec 2013, 11:26

I thought I would chime in on this excellent thread. I am packing up my car in a few weeks to head up north and hopefully land my first gig...

If given the chance, a potential employer would want to test my skills in the plane - just how difficult will this flight be?

iPahlot

12th Dec 2013, 19:13

Depends on the operator, some will just take you along on a days charter, some will do circuits with you and some will spend a few hours doing almost a mini flight test.

Even if you pass the interview check flight, you'll be doing quite a bit of ICUS first and then you'll get rechecked periodically.

My best advice is treat every flight as a learning flight, especially when you're on you're own. Concentrate on just one thing per flight, nail your height, heading, radio calls, RUDDER (you'd be surprised how many people you see that'd don't know how to use their feet :ugh:). If you do that it'll show in your flying and you'll have no worries with any future checks and it'll look favourably on you when it comes time to progression or that next job.

emergency000

4th Jan 2014, 04:05

Write up any unserviceabilities. Don't accept a crap aircraft.

This one cannot be stressed enough! And, as was mentioned, if something doesn't look or feel right, it probably isn't. Just go ask the engineer to look at what you're looking at and get his opinion. No engineer worthy of a license will allow the dispatch of an unsafe, serviceable aircraft.

ABusboy

4th Jan 2014, 23:53

Always carry some rags and a few litres of oil...engineers are not always around to get you home..

BreakNeckSpeed

6th Jan 2014, 20:53

Always carry some rags and a few litres of oil...engineers are not always around to get you home..

Not always?!?

Unless things have changed significantly, in my experience, not at all unless at a home base between the hours of 7am and 4pm (which is the time you hear the tires screeching out the front gate of the airport, not the tools down time)...:rolleyes:

As for writing up anything that is unservicable on an aircraft - CAR50 is pretty clear on that, but the lines can become a tad blurred when stuck at a remote airstrip with naught but the shade of your wing and a 250ml bottle of water to last you the next 4 hours while an engineer comes to change your busted nav light... common sense (not overly common, I know) must prevail in these circumstances - could it have broken on the way home? Certainly not if its a serious defect - Nil Comms across the desert, alternator etc...

It is essential also, to remain cognisant of the different motivations each party has in deciding an aircraft is taskworthy:

Pilot - although it would seem obvious (complete the task, get home safe), it is amazing how often the "I have to get to the pub to catch up with the boys" type of motivation gets in the way... don't be a fool.
Operations - are there to achieve the endstate of the client and make money for the Company. Don't begrudge them for this, but be aware that they may not see the "minor" defect in the same light as you - rather just an embuggerance that is ruining their plan...
Engineers - although we would all like to think that "no engineer worth his salt would release an aircraft to line that wasn't taskworthy", the filter for what does and does not meet the taskworthy list may often become blurred as the day draws towards "knock off" time...
Customer - I had many passengers in the past ask me how serious the issue was - especially if they had been paxing in GA aircraft for years prior - chances are they've seen it all before; good and bad. The adage don't die for a deadline comes to mind here...

A sound tech knowledge will save a lot of hassle in many instances as you will have a better understanding of what has gone wrong and the implications. Morale of the story is therefore (its been said many times before, but is certainly worth repeating) - pull the flight manual and read it cover to cover. Then read it again. Until you can draw every diagram and schematic and explain every system in detail from memory, you don't know enough about your machine!

wawa yaka mynmak

17th Jan 2014, 06:17

The wet has snuck in up North once again. Flights here and there are being cancelled due to forecasts cropping up with marginal weather. Unfortunately due to the reality of our job, we can't choose to fly in only blue skies, although the complexities and sensitive nature of the environment we work in, we can't force others to go out into the grey although the more experienced wouldn't have a problem in having a look.

What advice would you give a newbie who faces their first wet season?

Look Mum - no hands

19th Jan 2014, 21:03

w-y-m....

Gotta say that I have found the newbies who ask this sort of question are probably the ones least likely to get into serious trouble in the first place! Just thinking about the changes and asking the questions is a solid start.

Fuel or daylight will be what most often adds pressure on a poor weather day, so keep plenty of both. What are you going to do at the end of the day if you've burned extra fuel going around weather on the way out in the morning?

Do the homework on airstrip condition - treat anything unsealed as suspect unless you have a reliable and very recent report. Even then, remember that wet season rain can make an unsealed strip u/s in hours.

Always have a Plan B (and C....) - one that is close enough that you [U]know[U][U] you can make it. The maximum distance to this guaranteed option decreases as the weather gets worse - it has to be close enough that you are certain you can get to it and land safely. Metars are great for IFR, but only half the story for VFR - the conditions at the aerodrome are irrelevant if you can't get there.

Watch the guys who have been there for a few seasons - they won't all be good examples, but you'll work out pretty quickly who the good ones are. Then don't be afraid to ask those ones for advice.

Lastly, don't let it spook you. There are days in the wet that light aircraft just should not be flying, but a lot more days when it's possible to operate safely with good planning and decision making. Allow extra margins, plan carefully, and be prepared to spend the night away from home if you need to. :ok:

wawa yaka mynmak

20th Jan 2014, 04:59

LMNH,

Solid advice that applies to both to the VFR and IFR pilots.

To add for the VFR guys, always have a good awareness of where you are. When the cloud base starts lowering down, make sure your situational awareness is high. Being able to put a lat/long from your handheld to your WAC can be critical. Remember that everyone is going to be sharing the same airspace to stay visual. Having a good idea of where you are will save you heart ache later on, with reference to other aircraft and terrain.

Give your position to other aircraft reference to a distinct feature ie: an Airfield. I doubt many (especially the IFR drivers) will have a clue where BS swamp is, where as "ABC 15nm NW of Lake Evil, tracking east at 1000'" will have more meaning to everybody.

VFR drivers, have an idea of the approaches for the airfields you operate at. Some days the IFR drivers will be under the pump and will be giving positions reference an RNAV waypoint or " 2nm outbound in the NDB-A approach" etc etc with limited mental capacity to deal with other traffic.

Keep an eye on your fuel, don't miss a fuel drain in the wet season as the noise will soon stop if your tanks are full of water.

If you operate within phone and weather radar coverage, keep an eye on the weather as it passes through. Sometimes waiting on the ground for 30 minutes can make all the difference between dark and gloomy to reasonable.

Cheers.

mattyj

22nd Jan 2014, 20:24

Just do it the way they do it at your prospective new job..forget what you did at flying school..adapt and integrate..that goes for almost every next job you get!

MKA742

24th Jan 2014, 09:18

Some great posts on here and very educational reading. I would like to ask the employers here an honest question but first I'dd like to paint a picture of where I'm 'coming from'. If not interested skip to the end :ok:

Currently I'm at a point in my (young) career where I believe I'm at a crossroad.

I did a (JAA) Frozen ATPL (yea I know, o oh right) back in 2008 but even before I finished the financial crisis struck and my (then) big dream of flying a classic A300 for DHL was shattered. No more hiring 195 hour guys.

I saw that coming so started researching on pprune what to do next. Africa had always been a part of my life so I looked in this direction and soon decided to go to Windhoek, Namibia to try my fortune. From Belgium I called a few operators and after getting a 'maybe' I booked myself on the next flight.

2 days after I got there I got hired by Scenic Air for the C210. Some time after the tourists stopped coming though and things got very quiet. I went back home to my girlfriend after working there for about 15 months and only getting to 550 TT.

2 years later after sending a lot of cv's and some (a lot of?) help from a friend who started there together with me and stayed there, I got an email inviting me to the interviews for Wilderness Air formerly known as Sefofane.
This is where I'm currently working flying the Cessna 210. I'm living a happy life here with my wife and 2 small kids. I'm soon reaching the magic number of 1000 TT with at least 700 PIC. But my contract ends in June and I'm already thinking about what I want to do.

I've learned many things here in Africa. Not only about flying (I agree with most what has been said above) but also about life. I'm not really interested in flying the big iron for now (not that I would say no:}), I came to appreciate this kind of hands on flying. But I would like to move up 1 step in my career and make a little more money than now (I can't really say, but lets say it's below 900 USD). But oh well, surviving is enough, right :ok:

What I really wanted to ask is if I would stand a chance in Australia.

My wife is registered nurse and her current job is on the visa 457 list. We are married so I guess that implies we would at least be able to enter Australia. I also have some distant relatives in Perth.
Once there I can convert my EASA to a CASA CPL.

I think my experience is relevant to the outback. All my experience, though limited at about 1500 hours when I would leave, has been in a desert environment where careful planning and sometimes tough decision making is required. We land on (semi-)unprepared strips and deal with small and big defects in these old but amazingly capable little planes. There are only a few refuelling stations in a vast area so deciding when and where to divert for bad weather or emergencies is always in your mind. It teaches you to treat your aircraft right, think about all the little things as well as the obvious, encourages you to really know your aircraft and the geography. We also interact closely with our passengers and try to provide them with the most comfortable experience in a sometimes terrible environment. And I still have lots to learn...
But anyway, I'm starting to rant again.

What I would love to do is get my CASA CPL, travel around WT and NT and try to find a job. Obviously F/O on a small twin turboprop would be awesome but I wouldn't mind flying some more C210 or something similar to get to know the country. I also lack twin time since twin pistons are become very rare fast. My ME/IR has lapsed since there are no jobs for it and we only fly VFR anyway. I do fly a lot of approaches on the computer to keep me in the game.

Anyway, I would love to make the move and try it. I hope that employers would be interested in a profile like mine. Any ideas on that? Mick Stuped?

Thanks guys. Sorry again for the long post. Once I start writing, I just go :}

RookieFan

30th Jan 2014, 08:38

Hey everyone,

I'm posting here as i just want some seasoned advice from people in the loop as to whether i have a decent chance of making it into the pilot seat of a 737 or whether id be better of trying something else.

My situation is - 26 years old. Live in Melbourne, Australia. Have always had a moderate interest in flying but never thought about it as a career. I don't have my PPL or any flight experience either.

After browsing the forums a bit id seems that my options are...

- Go for private lessons out of my own pocket and get my PPL and CPL, get as many hours as i can as an instructor or up north flying tour groups, once i hit 500 (or 1000?) hours, apply at the major regional airlines such as QantasLink, Rex, Skywest, etc and then progress to the major airlines a few years after that.

OR

- Apply and get a cadetship at Qantaslink, Skywest, Jet*, etc

I understand that both of these routes are very very competitive and require a HUGE HUGE HUGE!!! financial and time commitment with no guarantee that this big investment will get in with the major airlines aka Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar, Tiger, etc

I have almost $50,000 in savings and the means to save a lot more so i could realistically pay for my PPL and CPL but being a bit older at 26 years, i'd be throwing everything i have into this with no guarantee (or even a decent chance?) of getting in due to massive oversupply of young pilots all trying to get in as well as ongoing cost cutting by major airlines.

The one ace i have up my sleeve is that i have 2 family members who are pilots with Qantas, one who is a Captain (who ill be speaking to soon) who might be able to pull some strings to help get me in if i did get my PPL and CPL.

So taking all this into account would anyone here (especially those who work for the major airlines, or work in airline management, HR, etc) have any advice, would this be a smart investment for me that will pay off or are the odds small enough that'd id be better finding something else?

My biggest fear here is spending all my time and money to get my license only to have no career at the end of it. - Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated :)

C

50 50

1st Feb 2014, 05:59

I suggest reading all the other forums entitled "Advice for a newbie".
A moderate interest is not even close. Unless it is an absolute overwhelming passion, get a PPL and fly for fun. As far as relatives pulling strings, that just p@sses the rest of us off.

Howard Hughes

1st Feb 2014, 06:05

My biggest fear here is spending all my time and money to get my license only to have no career at the end of it.
As is everyone's - We all took that risk at some stage, for some it worked out for some it did not.

If you can't decide, or are not 100% passionate about flying, then don't do it! :ok:

PS: Can your relo's pull some strings for me? ;)

The Green Goblin

1st Feb 2014, 06:25

If you only have a moderate interest it will not be enough.

The job requires passion and discipline. If you don't love it, the journey is simply to long and treacherous.

It's also not fun having job day every six months passing your checks. Your career could be set back because of a difference of opinion, particularly in regionals.

It'll be a ten year journey from now to an airliner via the traditional route and you will be starting your life over.

It took me a long time to catch my mates financially and I started the journey in my very early 20s.

Horatio Leafblower

1st Feb 2014, 06:33

Funny thing about free advice...

I had uncles who were doctors who told me not to do it, "it's not what it once was".

I had uncles who were Architects who told me not to do that either - same reason.

Bloody good thing I didn't know any pilots. :ok:

I don't know if a "passing interest" is enough to get you through the tough times but I do know a few pilots who weren't total aviation anoraks and have done just fine.

It's only a job at the end of the day.

...and by the time you have been in it for 10 years you would have had any burning passion bashed out of you anyway. If you can muster the cash and the time to take on a new career, why not?

Go for it I say. It's more fun than most other jobs despite what the whingers on here will have you think!

desert goat

1st Feb 2014, 22:49

Have you done any flying at all yet?

VH-XXX

1st Feb 2014, 23:12

I have almost $50,000 in savings

Most 26 year olds with 50k would go and buy a WRX so at least it seems they you have your head on straight.

Avgas172

2nd Feb 2014, 02:28

Tend to agree with WR XXX on this one, my only suggestion is to look at doing an apprenticeship as an AME while you are chasing the 737 seat .... That way you will at least have a trade to fall back on, I wish I had done just that 30 odd years ago .... Have fun :ok:
Cheers
A172

RookieFan

3rd Feb 2014, 05:45

Thanks for the advice everyone (the good and the unhelpful too) - could i narrow my question down a bit more, putting all other factors aside (my interest, experience etc), what are the odds of an average person making it all the way from PPL right up to the major airlines?

Is the job market (RIGHT NOW) overflowing with unemployed junior pilots or does a new pilot have a fairly decent chance of getting into the airlines? Thx!:ok:

Capt Fathom

3rd Feb 2014, 08:57

Thanks for the advice everyone (the good and the unhelpful too)

Which advice was unhelpful? :confused:

It all seemed very balanced to me!

j3pipercub

3rd Feb 2014, 08:59

Probably the truth that he didn't want to hear...

The Green Goblin

3rd Feb 2014, 10:09

The truth is it's a great job.

But probably half the guys that set out with stars in their eyes make it to a regional. Half that again make it to a major.

If everyone made it, there'd be no one left down the ladder after all.

Jack Ranga

3rd Feb 2014, 10:36

mmmmmm, dum-de-dum, what would I do if I had 50 gorillas & I was 26 years old. Get the f@ck out of this hole bro, get your licence in the States, fly a couple of seasons at Ice Pilots. On your way home do your float plane endo in Vancouver. By the time you get back here your uncle will be knocking on your door :ok:

Horatio Leafblower

3rd Feb 2014, 10:44

Is the job market (RIGHT NOW) overflowing with unemployed junior pilots or does a new pilot have a fairly decent chance of getting into the airlines?

Rookie it's not the job market RIGHT NOW that counts.

Start training today and it will probably be 18 months before you are qualified for your first job. Please be aware that you aren't ready for the cockpit of an airliner just yet.

Assuming you have been lucky, you might have your first job ($25-30k as a casual) as a very junior pilot or a junior instructor within 6 months of graduation.

You should expect 5-7 years clawing your way up the ladder, only leaving each job as a better job is offered (and occasionally getting retrenched) before you could reasonably expect to be in a small airliner.

Although you might technically meet an airline's minimum experience requirements within a couple of years, the plum jobs will often go to the candidate with far more than the minimums - like any career, to the best candidate available.

You might do it in less - and then again you might never make it at all.

Your intelligence, your people skills, your integrity and your determination will have a major influence on your quest to become an airline pilot. If you don't fit the defined mold you won't get into that airline - but that doesn't mean you can't have a fulfilling career as a pilot in one of many other streams.

Like many others I set off down this road with Qantas as the only possible objective. I was in an interview/Sim-ride assessment group in May 2008 with 4 others, all of whom were jet pilots for other airlines. I was scrubbed but the other 4 made it, only to be scrubbed when the GFC hit in October/November of that year.

To the best of my knowledge Qantas has not hired a single new pilot "Off the street" since.

I will echo the words of The Green Goblin - if you don't have the fire burning inside you, then you will end up either a) very lucky and in an airline or b) bitter and twisted and $80k poorer.

Jack Ranga

3rd Feb 2014, 11:03

My advice is better :ok: you blokes are far too negative :ugh:

Flying Bear

3rd Feb 2014, 20:41

That's gold, Ranga!:D

MKA742

4th Feb 2014, 06:02

Rookie, if you wanna do itand you can, just do it.

You put my post in the shade though, nothing for me??

Humbly Reserved

4th Feb 2014, 14:25

I thought flight training is alot more accessible with FEE-HELP now...most schools who have it have seen huge jumps in their MECIR and IRC course numbers. I Wish it was around when I did my training, it would have saved alot of time and heartache but I guess its also partly responsible for a recent newbie flood I've been seeing as well as some people entering the industry with less "drive" than previously seen...

RookieFan

6th Feb 2014, 07:40

Which advice was unhelpful?

Just had one comment that seemed a bit out of place and offering no value...

As far as relatives pulling strings, that just p@sses the rest of us off.

Thanks for the rest of the advice everyone, time to book that first introductory flight and see how i go...

beijing

21st Feb 2014, 03:28

If I were 26, I'll do it in a heartbeat. I'm more than 40 and just started the journey myself.

hillbillybob

27th Feb 2014, 02:32

If I were 26, I'll do it in a heartbeat. I'm more than 40 and just started the journey myself.

37 and in Broome looking for work. Age doesn't seem to matter much from what I can see

Howard Hughes

27th Feb 2014, 03:35

Age doesn't seem to matter much from what I can see
Got my first job at 36, haven't looked back since! :ok:

I C RED

1st Mar 2014, 05:42

Can anybody give me information about a good flight school that also might be able to offer employment as a flight instructor after any training.

ABusboy

10th Mar 2014, 12:03

Try Air gold coast at Coolangatta,

neoxman

11th Mar 2014, 02:59

Can anybody give me information about a good flight school that also might be able to offer employment as a flight instructor after any training.

Pretty much all the guys I see go through the instructor rating at Moorabbin Flying Services seem to end up working for them.

CallMeAProfessional

31st Mar 2014, 03:08

Hey there

Its my first time posting, Long time reader, first time poster. This thread (Newbie Advice) is an absolute delight, ive read it about 3 to 4 times now, and i keep coming back to see if there's anymore haha. I just have a question, im currently in the process of looking for that elusive first job, however i was just wondering, is it rude to go in to a company and ask for a job or would it be more appropriate to call or email first for a suitable time? Ive always felt that going in and asking to see the pilot seemed a bit rude, since he could easily be working etc?

Humbly Reserved

31st Mar 2014, 07:33

Some operators are good and will organise something whether it is an interview or tell you to send 'em an email. Others on the other hand will completely disregard you over the phone (either receptionists who want to get you off the phone or other pilots who couldn't care less about you). but always ask to speak to the CP or GM when making a call. This method does work but prob not as much as walk-ins.

If you want advice, I'd walk in off the street well dressed with resume in hand. If the CFI or CP or even GM is out or working, then politely ask to make an appointment. This I have found usually yields the best results.

HR

mcgrath50

31st Mar 2014, 14:08

My tactic has always been to go in and speak to whoever mans the office, receptionist/pilot. Treat them like you are delighted to get a chance to speak to them and would they please pass on your resume/details to the relevant parties.

Many companies use the office person as a gate keeper. You won't get past them until the CP wants to see you, if you treat the gatekeeper right you go a long way to getting to see the CP. Some companies will let you meet the CP (usually a hand shake and basic introductions) straight away but it still doesn't hurt to make a good first impression; you may be seeing that office person every day you rock up for work in the future! :ok:

Slameye

3rd Apr 2014, 16:14

Hi,

Another long time listener first time caller.

My question is what are the first job options for somebody based in Perth, and what is the expect starting wage (p.a.)?

From what I have gathered thus far its circa 30k and job options are charter or instructor? I would love to go up north but having a wife and two kids limits how willing to relocate I would otherwise be.

I am still a looooong way from being able to make the switch from FIFO to flying I am just trying to get an idea on how bad the pay is going to be so I can set up to weather the storm of the first few years.

Thanks in advance :ok:

mcgrath50

4th Apr 2014, 01:31

If you really can't leave Perth I'd say for the first year or two your options are solely instructing. I don't think any of the Perth charter companies take 200 hour pilots (who aren't also instructors to work in their flying school). If you can relocate your family further North you'd open up your options.

Wage of 30k? At best. It really depends, some people go straight on full time and earn more, most spend a year or two (or three!!) on casual and would earn that, sometimes less.

I have a lot of respect for the guys who do GA with a family. I found it hard enough to support 1 single person let alone a whole mob!

Slameye

4th Apr 2014, 15:14

Cheers for the reply mcgrath50,

Instructing doesnt seem too bad I am a Cert IV trainer and assessor and I really enjoy the work 30k is do-able (my wife can always get a job as well) I will just need to set myself up financially before I make the switch.

When you say further north where do you mean broom ect?

mcgrath50

5th Apr 2014, 03:17

Yeah anywhere in the tropics as a general rule. Kimberley, NT, FNQ. Which is the best one to go to changes each year. Darwin sounded extremely busy last year but Broome was relatively empty. This year Broome is packed with pilots looking for work. Plus it depends what companies are doing, expanding, contracting, going to an all turbine fleet etc.

Where to choose to set up camp is a much debated topic. The method I recommend is pick a town you would like to live in that has companies you'd like to work for. The lifestyle of the town is important as it may be months before you get a flying gig.

China Southern out of Jandakot may be a way to go for you, it is a sausage factory and no one I know loved their time there but it served a purpose, relatively steady income, lots of hours and relatively quick progression to multis if you stick around.

There's no right way to go about this, got to pick what's best for you and your dependants and have a bit of luck along the way!

Centaurus

10th Apr 2014, 12:45

Talked to an experienced pilot that recently went to Broome to look for work. He was informed by one operator that he must be a "resident" of Broome for several months before being considered even for an interview. In other words he must live in Broome, find his own work and after about six months he maybe considered for an interview for a job flying a single.

It just goes to show that there really is such a vast oversupply of unemployed pilots that operators can afford to lay down ridiculous criteria such as that above. Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?

Horatio Leafblower

10th Apr 2014, 13:10

Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?

1/. Statistically, the newbie is probably from Mosman or Toorak and doesn't believe in unions

2/. If the newbie is a member, but is not employed by any flying organisation (as a pilot or otherwise), what business is it of the AFAP?

3/. Many is the newbie who arrives in remote town and finds the locals don't smell nice and their stuff has been stolen 3 times in the first week and it's all a bit lonely and I don't like it. So I'm leaving. It would be a pity to give this guy a job and have him slink off after 4 weeks.

4/. There are plenty of guys who take it all in their stride, become a part of the town they chose to target, learn the local businesses and people and tourist attractions, and get to know a few pilots as well. If I was a Chief Pilot I would be looking at these guys for my next recruit before I looked at the kid who just stepped off the burner from Sydney with brand new Aviators and a pile of resumes in his hand.

mcgrath50

10th Apr 2014, 22:59

Cent,

I was told a similar thing when I was job hunting although it was more "It will increase your chances greatly if you were to set up in town."

It's a case of supply and demand. Why would an operator call a guy for an interview who has passed through and is now in Darwin when there are 30+ guys living in town with similar experience. As I'm sure you know most GA companies don't plan staff levels well and need the new pilot yesterday.

Elevator Driver

19th Apr 2014, 02:41

Hey guys / gals out there hour building

I have a very well priced C152 (NVFR!) based at YMMB.

Charged on airswitch at as low as $150/hr for block hour purchances

Pm for more info

hillbillybob

20th Apr 2014, 05:55

Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?

I'm not sure why AFAP would take umbrage with preferencing people whom are established and living in town over those that aren't

Horatio, I haven't met any newbies up here from mossman or toorak yet, plenty from the western and inner west in sydney, and a bunch from perth. I'm not currently a member of AFAP but will consider it when I get a job, the correct union for me currently is the SDA but there isn't a hope in hell of me joining them after the WA senate debacle.

In the last few months I have seen all types of wannabes here in Broome, those that have literally come for 2 days to do the rounds then head back home to guys who are on their second dry season and still trying for a gig.

Talking to the CPs up here the main takeaways have been:

there are more pilots here than the last 2-3 years and the theory is that this is because people doing the degree courses with FeeHelp are now starting to complete their degrees
if you aren't in town you need to be very good or very lucky to get a job without being here (and out of the backpackers)

as for me, I'm pretty happy here, I have met some awesome people, I'm not working in an office for the first time in forever, the weather is nice, and thursdays at the roey is good for a giggle. I do want that first job but I'm willing to be a little patient to get it especially now that I have some cash coming in to support myself.

so far the records I have heard of for the quickest time to get a job was less than a week, and the lowest hours were a bit under 200, anything is possible and that is one of the things that does peoples heads in, they can't see the logic/method being used to pick the guys that are successful

mikewil

20th Apr 2014, 06:13

there are more pilots here than the last 2-3 years and the theory is that this is because people doing the degree courses with FeeHelp are now starting to complete their degrees

You will also find there are less guys/gals in the piston singles/light twins moving on to bigger & better things as many doors have closed with all the airlines (especially REX) now offering cadetships.

Now that REX is no longer recruiting a large number of crew from GA on an annual basis, there are far fewer opportunities for the guys up there to move onto. Unfortunately this is a fact of life now and I do not see it getting better any time in the foreseeable future.

BlatantLiar

16th Jun 2014, 10:10

Both will take money from you in exchange for a license. None will teach you how to fly. Depends what sort of pilot you want to be really.

DancingDog

16th Jun 2014, 10:59

Search function is your friend
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/358750-rmit-flight-training-good-bad.html

pilotchute

16th Jun 2014, 11:09

Well the CFI is still the same guy from 2007 so I doubt the spots on the RMIT animal have changed.

They no longer offer the one year diploma as virtually no one was finishing within 12 months. Now a 2 year course but apparently extending the time just extends the crap excuses for why you haven't finished.

On the other hand I hear Swinburne isn't getting rave reviews anymore either. Something to do with the take over not long ago and changes in management?

There are plenty of better schools you can attend. They won't have G1000 172's but they also wont be charging you over $350 an hour dual. They might even help you find your first job at the end!

PM me for a list of schools I would send friends to if I wanted them to stay my friends!!!

peterc005

16th Jun 2014, 14:08

My son is most of the way thru the RMIT course and here are my observations:

1) The course seems to have improved greatly with a new course co-ordinator started about two years ago, about the same time it changed to a two year Associate Degree.

2) The place is quite structured and strict, with a big emphasis on check lists and SOPs. This may not suit all people, but is probably a good idea when you have a lot of young guys who sometimes have more hormones than good sense. flying small planes all over the country. It also builds good habits for pilots potentially headed for large organisations like airlines.

3) All of the planes are quite new. A mixture of C172, C182 and a Super Decathlon. Some of the planes have analogue instruments, some are G1000. Very nice fleet and very suitable for this type of training.

4) Over the years I'd heard some adverse things about the RMIT CFI, but my son's experience dealing with him has been very good and I now have a positive impression about him.

5) My son's first instructor at RMIT was a disaster, but he spoke to course co-ordinator and got a new instructor who has been excellent. The new instructor was previously a Qantas LAME and is one of the best instructors I've met in the past twenty years.

6) I've met half a dozen RMIT instructors and they all seem pretty decent and positive about the place.

7) Training at RAAF Williams Point Cook means there are great resources, with massive and good quality runways right next to a variety of controlled airspace environments. The RMIT buildings are very good, but it's a pain to have to drive to the shopping centre for food.

8) My son did his PPL at a larger GA school Moorabbin before starting at RMIT and went straight into second year. In hindsight this saved quite a bit of cash and gave him exposure to different environments which has proved valuable.

9) I can notice a difference in my son's flying. He has a much more professional approach which shows in in areas like pre-flight preparation, radio calls, circuit procedures etc.

10) In summary, it's a fairly tough course that needs a bit of dedication and hard work, but the facilities and training are very good. Junior is enjoying the course, making good progress and has made some good mates.

DancingDog

17th Jun 2014, 01:47

Just a word of warning, take what peterc005 says with a grain of salt. He's pretty infamous around here for posting unpaid ads for big university flying schools :suspect:

500N

17th Jun 2014, 02:12

"but it's a pain to have to drive to the shopping centre for food."

I hope that was supposed to be a joke ?

All of a couple of kms at most, that is if you don't take your food
with you in the morning !

kingRB

17th Jun 2014, 02:30

probably about as valid a comment as:
with massive and good quality runwaysYeah, because there are plenty of those typically in your first 1000 hours of GA.

peterc005

17th Jun 2014, 03:25

@Alex3008 - I think two years for completion is possible, but a lot of it comes down to motivation and being organised.

Generally the mature-age students with some aviation experience do better than schools leavers because they able to focus better.

My suggestion is to try and do at least your BAK and maybe PPL theory exams before you start. You'd get Recognition for Prior Learning (RPL) and would save time and fees.

I've known a lot of people who've been through the Swinburne courses and have a favourable impression, although I've heard that a combination of the OAA/CAE ownership changes and too many students means it can be a bit disorganised and requires push to get through.

One problem with all integrated courses is that people run out of funding before completion because the training takes longer than the curriculum. My suggestion is be organised and do as much pre-preparation as possible to get thru in the minimum time.

A lot of the aviation training experience depends on the individual instructors, and this is universal across all schools. If you are not happy with progress with one instructor, try a different one. One thing I like about RMIT is that students generally have one primary and a secondary instructor, which should make the training more cohesive.

I've been encouraging Junior to do his IREX and ATPL theory with Lionel Taylor at Moorabbin to save on fees and broaden his experience.

JustJoinedToSearch

17th Jun 2014, 03:31

Why don't you push junior to self study the IREX and ATPLs?

Saves even more cost, teaches him an important life skill and really, they aren't that difficult.

David Eyre

19th Jun 2014, 04:53

Hi All,

A friend of mine is looking into undertaking his PPL and maybe a CPL at Jandakot.

There are a number of operators there, such as Royal Aero Club of WA, Air Australia International, ACFT, Thunderbird Aviation Academy, Jandakot Flight Centre, but I'm seeking recommendations on which is the best.

Also, does it matter much if the company uses older-technology aircraft?

I've tried searching the forum regarding this, but the search function seems to be faulty at the moment.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
David

cptkris

19th Jun 2014, 05:02

I trained at Air Australia in 2008-2009. Im now a first officer with air new zealand. I think the key is that you get a good instructor and work really really hard. I can definitely recommend them.
Chuck runs a tight ship and the planes are not the newest but certainly kept at a tidy safe standard!

Cheerio,
Kris

ddoth

19th Jun 2014, 05:12

Few people I know, including myself, have been through Minovation.

Instruct very well and teach you about how to find information (ie. can you fly over square on CSU equipped planes).

That's my recommendation anyways :).

Bograt

19th Jun 2014, 08:09

Recommended. PM me for more details.

Eddie Bauer

19th Jun 2014, 11:55

On the topic of jandakot flight schools, is Phoenix aviation still about or have they become something else? I started my PPL there around 11-12 years ago but never completed it due to work taking me away.
Rod Jarrold was my instructor back then. Nice bloke who was a good instructor. It did get a little cramped with both of us in the aircraft though and could never take a full load of fuel!

crescoboy

17th Jul 2014, 11:56

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster.

Im just wondering what to do from here :rolleyes:. Currently living in Perth, originally from NZ. I was a loader driver in Ag Ops back in NZ, was dead set on becoming an Ag Pilot since the age of 5. Went through my flight training etc, came back to loading and then witnessed a crash off the end of the strip where I lost one of my best mates. Just thought I'd fill you in on that to stop the guys who would normally say "well you should have done some research on the aviation industry before getting into it". Ag is no longer for me, as much as I've tried to get over that :mad:

Anyway. I've got 300TT. Have just done my multi. Tried getting into survery work but the companies I have talked to all have their fleet on the ground as no one is doing any exploration.

Im pretty keen to get into skydiving. Originally from Taupo, so to end up there dropping meatbombs would be ideal, I guess as a stepping stone before getting into a multi somehow and then on to Eagle etc. Pretty sure thats the only option ultimately.

Just looking for some advice as to where to go from here. My non-aviation related job is finishing up in october. Do I move home to NZ to try suss some work or best to stick here? Perth doesn't seem to offer much as Im not an instructor.

Any help is appreciated.

Happy landings.

Crescoboy :ok:

deadcut

18th Jul 2014, 03:06

Have you thought of staying and heading up north? Its the wrong time of year but if you make the move you might be able to pick something up next year.

I am from NZ too but want to go back now after a few years here as prospects in Australia are looking dim. One thing for sure is that the opportunities for low pilots in Australia are much better than NZ.

luckyluke

20th Jul 2014, 01:17

Crescoboy

If entry level work is drying/dried up other there why not come back and try get a gig meatbombing at one of the smaller outfits over here learn the trade then have a go at getting work in Taupo once you got a little more time in the book?

flying139

12th Aug 2014, 08:54

Just after some advice if it is worthwhile searching around Darwin this time of year with a fresh CPL? Any advice on this subject will be much appreciated.

hadagutful

13th Aug 2014, 06:19

Wouldn't mind a dollar for every time this question has been asked!! :
A fresh CPL.......can I have a go at answering, go up there and join the far queue. Seriously, check on all the previous posts or take a lovely holiday up there and do some snooping around.
Great time of the year now.

Lasiorhinus

14th Aug 2014, 02:59

It will be more worthwhile than staying on the Gold Coast.

The "hiring season" is largely confined to history, operators take pilots as they need them, whenever they need them. Darwin does not get quiet over the wet season, though perhaps the scenic operators out in Kakadu aren't doing quite as many scenics.

You're not going to get hired unless you are in Darwin, so that it of itself makes it worthwhile going up.

StormAir

31st Aug 2014, 04:29

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about flying for quite some time and I've decided that I'm going to commit next year to it. I was just wondering about where to do my training. I have 2 options that would really suit me. The first is in Coffs Harbour, as I will be living with parents I would be able to fly more regularly but I feel Newcastle would be a better place to learn, but because I'll be living out of home I would be flying a little less frequent. Just wondering on your thought of each place and what would be a better option.

Thanks

L.A.S

4th Sep 2014, 11:30

I'd recommend Redcliffe Aero Club. Just finished my training there, nice place to live, plenty of work around (non flying of course lol) plus great blokes and machines.
As a regular visitor to Coffs, there's nothing there...

Fly43dom

11th Oct 2014, 08:59

Hi guys.

Need some advice on the new CASA part 61 ATPL flight test.

How does 1 go about getting an ATPL with the new part 61 ATPL flight test? If im not flying a high-performance multi-crew aircraft but has just met the hours for the ATPL.

Does anyone know which training organisation in Aus can conduct the new CASA ATPL flight test? Can you do it in say a Boeing 737 flight simulator during type rating conversion? other than doing it in a real high performance turbine aircraft?

Appreciate any help.

Cheers :)

Humbly Reserved

30th Oct 2014, 15:42

Best advice I've heard from someone:

Only get the ATPL when you physically need it. Most airlines and major operations with T&C will conduct their own flight test (in approved facility and of course examiner) So theres no rush to get it until your in a company and have worked the time to upgrade to a command position anyway...

I've heard that two people have thus far taken the test both were successful prospective command upgrades with two operators (one was a charter company) both supervised by CASA (both in the operators sims) and it was no different than a standard instrument renewal with a few questions tagged on the front (both were very lenient on KDR's) as the box on test form says "tester must be satisfied knowledge is adequate for issue of licence" etc etc which means you'll be asked relevant operational questions (none of where is the best FL for a B727 BS....

Ads25

5th Nov 2014, 09:40

Hey Mick
You seem like the person I would want to work for!
I'm busy door knocking around QLD at the moment, will head up North if nothing happens here.

If you need a hard working, eager to learn pilot, I would appreciate a pm :)

Otherwise back on the hunt tomorrow!

PyroTek

12th Dec 2014, 04:18

That's a great resource, evilducky! Good work!:ok:

iPahlot

12th Dec 2014, 08:16

Evil Duckie.

Nice map.

Some changes / additions.

Chartair - will take green pilots
Savannah - has been known to take newbies, but generally only newbies that have passed through Bob Harris

Kakadu Air Tours / Sky Air Safari (Jabiru, Darwin) - ~ 400TT plus

Broome Aviation - Will take newbies, also looking for experienced van drivers last time I heard

GSL Aviation (Airlie Beach, Cairns) - will take green / lower hour pilots

Skydive the Beach - bit of the right attitude and a caravan endo might land you a job at any one of their numerous bases

Shoal Air - has been know to take newbies

Bunbury Aeroclub - always advertising for instructors

Left 270

12th Dec 2014, 09:36

Agree with above, except for the van drivers for BAV. Reckon they are sorted for drivers.

Working out where/who you are going target is half the battle. Good work!

concerned parent

18th Dec 2014, 03:14

That is a terrific resource and one you could have kept to yourself so thank you for making it available. As a parent of a low hour CPL with MECIR and ILS we feel for everyone in the same position. It's heart breaking to see the work and commitment (and money)that goes into getting these qualifications only to be spat out the other end. Keep at it.

BlatantLiar

18th Dec 2014, 09:45

http://media2.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.gif

That troll account has legs.

alexbrown2005

25th Dec 2014, 21:22

Hi Mick,

Forgive me for digging up an old post, but I have to ask. You mentioned in your post the idea of "too much dual time".

How much dual time would you deem as TOO much dual time?

Thanks

Alexander

Mick Stuped

3rd Jan 2015, 23:13

Alexander,
As a general rule of thumb any thing more than 50% goes into resume pile two. Eg 150 hour TT 70 - 75 command. We go through logbook and look for how much time training has taken. The sort of training that has been done. We are looking for signs of struggle during training. Lots of dual time compared to command is an indicator we have found in the past to either lack of natural flying ability or lack of listening or understand skills.

We don't want to take the easy way of culling that a lot other operators use and just put a 300 - 400 hour minim on new pilots. We have always felt a sence of responsibility to give back to the industry that has been good to us. Someone has to get pilots to the 300-400 hour mark. However we only have a certain amount of time, money and patience in a small organisation to be able to get newbies to line. We cannot go broke trying to get newbies to line that lack enthusiasm or ability.

We look for pilots that have the ability to think outside the box and are ahead of not just the plane but operations. We have seen a link between those newbies that need to be told everything and high dual time. Lower Dual time pilots tend to be big picture pilots. Eg have always studied a step ahead of physical abilitys, understand aircraft systems before flying that aircraft. Have constantly asked questions of instructor/ CFI during training. Live, breath flying and don't really look at flying as a job. Will arrive at work/training with weather/notams and flight plan in hand.

Have the ability to have a picture in their head of what the day will hold and changes that could happen before they start the day. I find that then helps them cope with the forever changing day that is charter operations.

Newbies tend to think that flying is the only skill they need. Organisation is just as important and that tends to start in training and will also show in Dual time.

Hope this helps

Mick

maxgrad

4th Jan 2015, 05:02

Well said that man.

alexbrown2005

5th Jan 2015, 05:37

Thanks Mick, that's great! :)

pistnbroke_again

5th Jan 2015, 05:43

Mick I think that would work in most cases, not all cases. A lot of different reasons why people could have more dual. People who have completed the training in the 150hour bracket would have more dual then solo. Especially if they have got initial multi and nvfr on the piece of paper

alexbrown2005

6th Jan 2015, 08:25

On recollection, pistnbroke_again (http://www.pprune.org/members/439042-pistnbroke_again) is right. Once I complete my RA-Aus Certificate and Nav endorsement, I'll have around 40 hours dual and 8 or 9 solo.

Because I plan on going to PPL and CPL afterwards, I'm going to have a *lot* more dual time than solo time when I emerge with a CPL and an MECIR. How would I go about explaining this to a CP such as yourself, Mick?

Mick Stuped

6th Jan 2015, 10:08

You don't get it. Re read my post. It isn't a deal breaker it's a rule of thumb. I said we review logbooks for signs of struggle. Don't insult me with a reason or excuse that it took you twice as long to get your CPL because your instructor didn't understand you needs. This excuse has been given before. After 30 odd years and thousands of CV,s we have indicators to look for. We know how long each section of training should take to achieve. We take into account different types of training. These are all indicators. 150 and 75 single time was a good example we have found in the past as an indicator. It however isn't the only thing we look at. However if you come in with 250 to 75 single, I say pile 2. Remember we are only looking for basic day single VFR pilots. I don't care if you have MECIR. I am looking for an intelligent common sense pilot that can think for themselves, that are keen and willing to improve, willing to jump in and do something as basic as cleaning their plane and don't wait to be told. We also look for all those things that help handle stress in a changing environment. After looking through lots of logbooks they will tell a story.

pistnbroke_again

6th Jan 2015, 12:40

As I said; most cases, not all!

alexbrown2005

8th Jan 2015, 03:49

I apologise if my post came off as insulting, Mick. I just saw the 150/75 and thought, "If I don't have that, I'll be stuffed in finding a job."

Thanks for clearing that up.

danms

15th Jan 2015, 08:59

Hi all!

I'm new to this so please excuse any breach in protocol. Basically I have moved to Aus from NZ to look for flying work, I have a CPL (260hrs), Multi-engine Instrument Rating and ratings in a C172 and DA42. I'm looking for work doing any type of flying anywhere, Im planning to head up north to the Darwin area driving from Brisbane and going to stop at all the airports and aerodromes on the way. Any suggestions of where to stop, who to speak to, or any advice at all? Any advice is hugely appreciated!

Cheers

Dan

nestorkelly508

16th Jan 2015, 05:13

It's always an important aspect to leave a good reputation to your employers.. Some are picked of qualifications..

MilesPNZ

21st Jan 2015, 09:12

@ Mick

I had a question if you don't mind me asking. I am a B-cat here in NZ holding a current OCA with around 20 hours under part 135. Those 135 hours are mostly scenic with some aerial photography as well. My total time is 800+

I was interested to know if you think that is enough to have an edge if I was to come to Aus, buy a car and go job hunting or if it would be better to wait for the 1000hour mark.

Thanks for any help!

radiodude

21st Jan 2015, 12:55

Hi all, I've read these forums for years and finally joined.

I'm posting this because I need honest/professional advice from anyone in the industry. I'm 31, I have a PPL and would love to make a life long career as a pilot. I have a very supportive wife and 2 young kids. Here's a few questions I hope I can get some answers/advice on.

1) I'm thinking about flying with a college at Bankstown which offers Vet Fee Help. Has anyone done this and is it a good path to go down?

2) Is getting a MECIR something I should do whilst getting CPL or go straight to a NVFR and instructor rating? (I love teaching people new things so instructing is something I will prob end up doing).

3) Being 31 and not having a great education. Can I get 'good' job in a few years? ME charter / RFDS / Regional RPT

4) Is there work around? do Fresh CPL's struggle to find work and if so will this get better?

Sorry for the long question. Some big decisions to make soon.

seneca208

21st Jan 2015, 20:45

Having an OCA means nothing in Australia. With 500+ hours of instructing, you'd look good for a basic instructing job. For charter, you're at the bottom of the pile with every other fresh CPL graduate in Australia. 800 nor 1000 hours of instructing will give you an edge for top-end charter companies, in my opinion.

50 50

22nd Jan 2015, 04:32

Radio dude, I think I'm qualified to at least give an opinion.

We are about the same age, in the same family circumstances. I however have all the qualifications that you desire. CPL, MECIR, Instructor rating, NVFR, tail wheel, and over 100 hours aerobatic competition flying. The only thing I don't have, aside from a floating hull endorsement, is a job.

To answer your points:

1) Didn't do it myself, so despite no job, I also have no debt too repay. You know your financial situation, it's between you and your wife.

2) Without having a great education as you say, CPL will be a lot of work and you will struggle with some of the concepts. I was/am exactly the same. Do not under estimate the amount of time you will need for study. It is enormous. I did mine before I had my daughter, don't know how I would manage now.
Don't add to your woes by trying for an instrument rating at the same time. You won't get an IFR job straight away anyhow, so it is a waste of money at this stage.

3) Unlikely but not impossible, if you and your family are willing and able to live in a top end sh1thole for a couple of years on very little money. That is, if you can score the job over all the rich kids that got bankrolled by Daddy. Not trying to be negative, that's just how it is.

4) There is work around, just not where you and I are. Absolutely you will struggle to get work, everyone does. Will it get better? I don't know. I hope so, but the industry has stagnated. Major airlines haven't recruited en masse for about 5 years, regionals are shutting down at an alarming rate, and schools like the Bankstown flying college that offers VET FEE-HELP are pumping out as many new CPL's as they can.

That's the situation we are all in. Hope this helps you decide.

radiodude

24th Jan 2015, 15:25

50_50 that's the sort of honest advice I was after. It's great to hear two sides to every story. Sadly the picture you paint is completely different to the ones the college (and flying schools) paint. Some of the things they've promised is so far fetched, even a guy like me with just a plain PPL and no experience in the industry wouldn't believe!!

Can you not find any work at Bankstown or Camden as an instructor?

I do agree with you how the colleges are pumping out so many CPL pilots. That cannot have a positive place in the industry and also makes it harder to find work.

Please don't get me wrong... I want this career so bad but the mature father of 2 steps in and surveys the idea of spending $80k for the possibility of nil work.

Once again mate, I do truly appreciate the advice given.

CaptainHook96

24th Jan 2015, 22:40

Hi Guys,
as well as learning how to use this confusing forum, (so much information), I am currently looking for a start into the industry.
I have almost no flying experience, (10 hours 2 years ago), and am currently considering starting my RPL/PPL/CPL training through Melbourne Flight Training.
However, I also have offers through Moorabbin flying services and RMIT for commercial licences (all based in Melbourne at YMMB).
Any thoughts or previous experience?
Cheers.

50 50

28th Jan 2015, 19:57

I have been to every flight school in Bankstown and Camden. No work anywhere. In fact when I went to the college you seem to be considering, the chief pilot refused to even come out of his office and meet me.

radiodude

28th Jan 2015, 21:07

Was that Basair or Sydney Flight College?

50 50

28th Jan 2015, 23:07

One is owned by the other. Same chief pilot.

peterc005

15th Feb 2015, 12:28

MFT and MFS are General Aviation schools and have very sound reputations.

RMIT is at Point Cook, not Moorabbin, and is a university-based integrated course. RMIT is the largest of the three schools you've mentioned and has the advantage of also granting a tertiary qualification on completion. The large integrated courses can be good or bad experiences, but generally require higher levels of organisation and motivation to complete in a timely manner.

pilotchute

15th Feb 2015, 13:08

Peter is on the money with his advice. I would advise myself against going to one of the schools offering HELP loans to pay for training. The licence will end up costing considerably more than doing it somewhere else. But if it's a tertiary qualification you want or you can't pay for it yourself than maybe Uni affiliated courses will be the best option.

Better again would be going to a school in the country where they may have industry contacts to help you out with a first job. The country schools will be cheaper and generally be much friendlier.

When you talk to the schools, ask to speak to current students and get the CFI to give you an estimate on price. If they are reluctant to do either you may want to try a different school. Keep in mind that people learn at different speeds and hence the price will change. Ask them a min price and also a price for going 20 hours over.

peterc005

15th Feb 2015, 14:19

The cost of the uni integrated training is dearer, but this is somewhat offset by not paying GST.

The uni integrated courses have the advantage of being more accessible by having funding available (FEE-HELP) and a tertiary qualification. At these uni courses most staff are former students, which is one avenue for employment.

One important factor with these integrated courses that I don't see discussed is the importance of being properly prepared and committed so they can complete the course in the minimum time and cost. Having to pay for extra training and subjects is a common cause of these students running out of funding before they complete training.

If you do an integrated course make sure you do an much preparation as possible before you start. Read the text books, get your medical, ASIC etc. before you start.

The uni integrated courses sometimes have massive numbers of students, making it hard to get bookings. Don't book one flight at a time, which may get cancelled due to weather and then wait another two weeks for a booking.

Try and book a dozen flights at a time and push hard if you get messed around. Don't let the training drag on, make every day count.

Diffracted

18th Feb 2015, 06:15

I'm a reasonably fresh CPL, having completed the 200hr course a few months ago, and have started exploring my options.

I've started researching my options regarding further qualifications and have discovered that there is a but of a price difference between my short-listed schools when it comes to Instrument Ratings and/or Instructor Ratings, with some schools quoting x thousand and some others (RTO types) x + 6-or-so thousand, but with a Dip.Aviation thrown in.

So here is a little scenario for you more senior guys out there in PPRuNe land:

Assume that after advertising a position for a new driver for your school/operation, and working through the various selection criteria you employ, you have narrowed down your selection to Candidate A and Candidate B. Both A and B are a good fit for your business; they have similar experience and have shown a great attitude for the job, both have similar experience. Candidate A has a Dip.Aviation (relevant to your operation) and Candidate B does not.

Question: Which candidate are you likely to pick?

I know that recruitment is a complex activity, and I have dumbed it down a little in the scenario, but I really would like to know if the diploma is worth the extra money considering that the important part (as insofar as actually flying is concerned) is the rating.

AshMammens27

18th Feb 2015, 06:51

Hey does anyone know if BASAIR or Australian Wings Academy is any good? cant find many reviews online. Any input is greatly appreciated. THANKS!

xma007

18th Feb 2015, 11:54

Basair and Sydney Flight College are two totally separate schools. Sydney Flight College is part of Schoifeilds Flying Club with there own CFI

maxgrad

18th Feb 2015, 21:42

Diffracted,

In your scenario the only difference is the degree.
I would still look for something that put one above the other. In my opinion the uni course does not add to the standard already in place.
I am talking just about GA from initial entry to turbo prop and biz jet.

Flying standard, professionalism, airmanship and maturity in the industry is not improved by the degree input.
The person presenting may already have stronger skills in this area and the degree may have brought that out further but it seems not to be a uni generating thing.

Hope that helps

50 50

19th Feb 2015, 00:36

Xma007 I will stand corrected. The other outfit I was thinking of was Sydney Aviators. I went in to speak to their Chief Pilot and was sent over to Basair.

mcgrath50

19th Feb 2015, 02:31

Diffractd,

Diplomas make 0 difference, there is very little difference between diploma courses and just doing a CPL other than paperwork.

Diffracted

19th Feb 2015, 02:54

maxgrad and mcgrath50,

Both your replies are the exact type of advice I was after :ok:. I think I will save myself some dosh and put it towards something more worthwhile like an endo or spoil the missus :E (she deserves it with all my flying talk at home).

Cheers

alialbarwani

26th Feb 2015, 12:23

Hi there,
Im wondering if any of you are aware of any EASA approved flying schools for a zero to ATPL course that have decent costs?
Help would be appreciated!!!!

Wilsonctc

7th Apr 2015, 15:22

I'm from Hong Kong and I've been interested to acquire the PPL in Australia for quite a while. I still haven't made it into action primarily because of my job which doesn't really allow me to take a few months off.

I would highly appreciate it if anyone could kindly advise on the following matters.

- My understanding to obtain a PPL is that I will first need to complete the BAK exam to start the flight trainings, followed with the GFPT flight test and eventually the PPL exam and flight test. Is it correct?

- Is it possible to self-study the theory parts (only BAK and PPL exams?) in Hong Kong so that I could take the exams immediately when I come to Australia? If yes, what are the textbooks you would recommend?

- Is it reasonable to assume the total flight time, on average, would be less than 50 hours before the PPL flight test? Is it possible to spread these hours into 2 years as I could probably only fly to Australia during long holiday due to work commitment

Any advise to my situation will also be appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Wilson

rgmgbg01

8th Apr 2015, 11:24

Hi wilsonstc,
In answer to your question;

1.theory exams including bak before doing rpl flight test (no more gfpt). Then ppl theory then ppl flight test

2.study at home! Personally I like bob tait text books but any are fine really . Take exams when you get here

3. 50hours to ppl is possible BUT not common. Many take 70 something. Hope for the best plan for the worst.

All definitely possible part time/during your holidays.

Best of luck with it all!

gchriste

9th Apr 2015, 03:59

Just to add to the above, I am going for my RPL test in the next week, and have 35+ hours at this stage, with 7.5 of that solo.. The comment from my instructor is that is a little under most, with most being around 40-45 hours.

From here there are the 8 Nav exercises to get your PPL, each being several hours long. Plus the obligatory family jaunts and practice.

So 70+ hours would be a reasonable estimate to get to your PPL.

And yes, study at home. I did all self study for the BAK exam, and will do the same for PPL.

The Bob Tait books are very concise, well written, and give you just what you need to get through the exams. The Aviation Theory books go far more in-depth about most systems, and whilst not necessary for the exams, provide great background. I ended up getting both.

Andy_P

14th Apr 2015, 09:24

Another advocate for Bob Tait here. If you can afford it, and have the time I highly recommend heading to YRED and doing the courses. The PPL runs for 3 weeks, and is well presented. The online practice exams are more or less what you get in the actual CASA exam. I reckon 85% of the questions on the exam where just about the same as Bob Taits practice exams.

I have not done the CPL course, but I know a few people who have and when I did the PPL course there was was a CPL course running. The CPL course runs for longer, but you do each module and then school books you in to do the exam. By the time you finish, all the exams are done.

The best thing about the Bob Tait course, is you are surrounded by like minded people, so your coffee breaks and lunch breaks are usually dominated by talk about flying and the course. Plus you get to sit in the hangar and judge the ****ty landings done by people like me!!!

runway16

12th Jun 2015, 09:17

Talking of getting extra experience I saw an item in facebook about someone going from Moorabbin to the west ina Cessna 206 lookoing for someone to share the costs.
PM me for details.

absilo

23rd Jun 2015, 00:57

I'm looking to move from my snails pace of learning, to a full-time sort of thing to complete my CPL.
I've looked at Basair - Which doesn't seem to have the best reputation. I would love for someone to prove this wrong though, as it is the most convenient.
I've looked at Sydney Flight College - I haven't been able to grasp too much about their reputability.
I've looked at Sydney Aviators - I don't think they do full-time. Not sure.
Any recommendations?

Horatio Leafblower

23rd Jun 2015, 01:09

Basair and Sydney Aviators are the same business but in different buildings, with different branding.

I am not close to them but from afar they seem solid enough, no worse than any other school. The bad reputation they had at one time was mostly due to incidents during the Indian training boom.

I suggest they have worked very hard since then to repair the damage and earn their good reputation back. I would no longer try to talk you out of using Basair/SydAviators. :ok:

For what it's worth my preferred school in the Sydney Basin is Curtis Aviation; far more "bush pilot" oriented than "airline pilot" oriented and probably better for the GA phase of your career.

Best of luck.

kim19pedro

5th Jul 2015, 09:03

Hi guys.
As you might noticed, I'm new here.
I decided to register myself in this forum in order to get some more info about flight schools in the Sydney area.
I'm Portuguese and I intend to take this to the ultimate level. From zero to the ATPL. :O
I've done some research already and the schools that seemed to be reasonably good are the Basair, PFS, Sydney Aviators.
I'm preparing myself to go "in loco" and have a clearer idea of this schools and what they can offer to me but I'd like to have some feedback from you guys. I'm asking for your wise advices. :ok:
Cheers

Anne M

23rd Jul 2015, 12:13

Hi everyone,

I read on one of the threads that operators will consider a potential applicant's total training time to determine how easily the individual learnt the basic skills.
As a recently qualified CPL holder with significantly more hours than the required minimum,will this ruin my chances of getting a charter job?
I had lengthily breaks during my training( over four years)between PPL and CPL and needed a lot of remedial training after resuming.
Any advice is highly appreciated

Eystein

27th Jul 2015, 09:25

Hi, everyone!
I'm a newcomer in this forum.I would like to get the license from 0 to frozen ATPL in Aus.I've researched many of flying schools but nearly all of them only provide PPL and CPL.The only one that I found is AFTC which is under Flight Training Adelaide.And here's my questions:
1.How's the reputation of AFTC?Is it good?
2.If not,any recommendation of flying schools in Aus that can obtain ATPL with good reputation?(New Zealand is also an option for me).
Thankyou guys,really appreciated ;)

lorys096

30th Jul 2015, 14:02

Hi,
I'm nineteen years old, and my dream is to become an airline pilot (I've just finished secondary school).
Surfing the Internet I understand that there is need for money to become an airline pilot, then in Italy is difficult to achieve this goal.
I hope someone writes me all about the licenses, price and convenient locations (I know what is PPL, CPL, Atpl... But I want to know much more about all, like what is Type Rating and Line Training, the possibility to find work and the problem of the language for me).
Thank so much

outnabout

3rd Aug 2015, 00:28

Good morning guys n gals:

To drag this thread back onto Advice for Newby's, it's pretty interesting watching the CP's blood pressure rise at the moment.

A lot of resumes are now coming across the desk which state MEA, SEA, and total time, and that's about it.

While this complies with Part 61, it is utterly useless to a CP trying to sift through the 50 resumes (and that's just from this week). To help your resume climb to the top of the pile, please specify your hours on each aircraft type (ie C182, C206, C210 - etc).

While CASA may accept 400 TT SEA, the insurance company will not. Insurance companies always require total time, on type (and type is make & model specific. One of the guys who has just joined us has 1500 hours (500 multi), and yet still needs to do 10 hours ICUS on a C206 to meet the insurance requirements).

So do yourself a favour, take a minute to specify it in your resume, and help yours stand out from the pack.

triple7x

8th Nov 2015, 11:10

Dear OZ Pilots,

I'm holding an FAA CPL/IR ME/SE license and like to convert it in a FULL stand allone AUS CPL/IR ME/SE license.

I already have the CASA forms and know what to do next, but I have no clue which flight school I should take... there are so many of it around Australia and hope you could give me some recommendations.

I guess the flight school has to be "certified" for license convertion.
After that I look forward to get training in more or less modern glass cockpits.
I don't care about location of the flight school, I am pretty flexible!

Thank you in advance for your support! :ok:
Regards,
Martial

sabri

1st Dec 2015, 11:29

Hey guys,

I am looking to get my CPL, but very confused about available flying schools, don't know where to go and what to avoid.

1 - I am Gold Coast based at the moment, I have visited all 3 flying schools on the Gold Coast;

- Airways Aviation (Most Impressive to me for some reason)
- Air Gold Coast
- Australian Wings Academy (Most Expensive one)

If anyone can help me choosing the best one please.

2 - I will be around 35 when I am gonna finish my school, wondering is it too late?

3 - I know after CPL I have to move to NT eventually, so is there anyway instead of moving after getting CPL I move now and get my CPL in NT? Will it be a wiser decision?

4 - Why few schools are way expensive than others? Does it make any difference at the end when you hunting for job?

Thanks.

iPahlot

1st Dec 2015, 20:47

1. If you read the forum conditions you'll see that an admin will probably remove this portion...

2. Not too late at all, though will probably require more sacrifice on your and who ever will follow you on your journey (partner, kids etc) than say if you were a 20 year old.

3. the NT is most definitely not the only place to get your first gig, regional WA and regional SA are also quite common places for people to get their first charter gig. There are of course some that have had their first gig in other states, but the above mentioned are your most likely candidates.

IRT doing your training in Darwin, well there really isn't much in the way of flight training up here, though I have heard of some schools starting up. (Someone more in the know might be able to elaborate in this for you). It may help you network, but given the history of flight training in Darwin and the lack of longevity of the schools, mixed in with the rather expensive cost of living I'd think twice about it. Unless of course you have a good job up here to supplement this.

4. The school you do your training with doesn't usually have much of a weighing with operators. I'd suggest you stay away from anyone training "airline cadets" or large number of foreigners. Read some of the other threads on what you really should be looking for and asking.

One thing I would add to "what to ask" list, is what the flying schools limitations are for weather. It's surprising to see how many people you see now a days that haven't experienced more than a 5-8kt x-wind as the flying school didn't allow it and have never flown when the weather was marginal. Of course I'm not saying go for a school that has a cavalier attitude to weather, rather a school that teaches you how to properly evaluate weather in a commercial sense (read: learn how to fly when it's not CAVOK legally!). This is invaluable when doing VFR charter "up north".

sabri

2nd Dec 2015, 17:48

Thanks mate, I appreciate your comment. I was bit worried about being 35 I had people saying to me that its bit late.
Actually I am in contact with few schools down in adelaide, but again its a tough decision to choose the right place, I will definitely go through other threads to get to the right place.
I am hoping few more comments on this thread about available options on the Gold Coast so I spend my hard earned money for the best training.

Cheers

Flying Bear

3rd Dec 2015, 19:50

Sabri,

If you're interested in looking at training options in Darwin - get in touch with me via Private Message.

Musan

20th Dec 2015, 11:37

Hi there,

I total beginner looking for the right flight school to kickstart a potential career in aviation.

Schools in Redcliffe (North of Brisbane) are best suited to where I live. I have read Redcliffe Aero Club is a good school with good money value and instructors but these were posts and comments from a few years back.

Can anyone share any insights about which is school is good in the region; things that are important to look out for when choosing a flight school. Basically any tips would be appreciated.

:rolleyes::):ok:

BPA

20th Dec 2015, 20:00

You also have Air Queensland at Redcliffe, operating Tecnam P2008(RAAUS), PA38, C172, PN68 and PA31.

If you want to start in RAAUS you also have Fly Now Redcliffe operating Tecnam P92, CTLS and a Sportstar.

Further north at Caboolture you have Aerodynamic Flight operating C172. RAAUS schools there are Gofly, operating Sling 2's, Tecnam Echo and TC550. They also have a school at Calaroundra with a Sling 2 up there and they have a deal with some GA school and also offer PA38 and a C172RG.

You also have Caboolture Recreational Aviation operating Foxbat's and Jabiru's (think they are trying to sell them).

Calaroundra also has Inspire aviation with TC550 and CTLS, QAS operating C172.

Go further north to Sunshine Coast Airport you will find Flight Options operating Cessna's and the Aeroclub operating Foxbat, Sling and a Robin 2160.

hillbillybob

22nd Dec 2015, 02:15

Musan

I can't comment on the other schools at redcliffe but have certainly been happy with my time there doing Instrument renewals and additional approach training

Sabri

I got my first job at 38, anything is possible, feel free to PM for a chat about being a more senior fresh CPL

gchriste

22nd Dec 2015, 06:17

Hi Musan, I did my training at Redcliffe Aero Club and private hire out of there now. Great club, well maintained modern (2000+) fleet of C172, good facilities and friendly bunch of people. Ring up and make an appointment to drop in and talk to them, or do it while doing a trial flight there.

Musan

22nd Dec 2015, 12:29

BPA, hillbillybob, gchriste

Thanks guys! It's great to find nice people sharing their knowledge, experience and suggestions here. I will definitely drop in to RAC and check it out after this holidays break.

I am currently reading a book named VFR(DAY) STUDY GUIDE on basic aeronautical knowledge. I am hoping to finish the book before starting my RPL in Feb/Mar when there is less rain and clouds.

Should I go for a trial flight first or is it ok to jump straight into actual flying lessons?

triton140

22nd Dec 2015, 21:37

Go for the trial flight - it's cheaper!

The instructor will use it to demonstrate to you the effect of controls (and let you do it too), so it will be a lesson anyway (including briefing/debriefing).

gchriste

23rd Dec 2015, 01:43

Alternatively, they are one in the same. If you opt for a one hour TIF, generally it is actually your first lesson (if you carry on) as they will cover the effects of controls, while letting you fly the plane. Certainly how I did mine.

jjhews

17th Feb 2016, 05:43

Aside from the obvious fact that you can't take family and friends up for flights if you've chosen to forgo the PPL checkpoint (which is fine with me), are there any other major disadvantages or things to lookout for with courses that take you from 0 through to CPL + MECIR + fATPL? Looking at some of the new Fee-help courses at FTA which now bypass the PPL flight test.

Input from instructors and pilots who've undergone the above appreciated.

Arm out the window

17th Feb 2016, 09:21

Plus, if you get your PPL (or RPL even) you can build GF, nav (not with RPL obviously) and PIC hours that will count towards your CPL in a mate's aircraft, or one you can access a bit cheaper than paying the flying school.

Not so much an issue if you're going to go straight through, but if you take a break or run out of money partway through, it's a consideration.

Fee help and all that is OK, but you'll have to pay it back one day anyhow, so if you can get some cheap hours on the way through that's not a bad thing.

(PS GFPT has gone the way of the dodo with Part 61, now a flight test for an RPL, but once licenced you don't need flying school supervision, can sign your own MR etc.)

glenb

17th Feb 2016, 18:33

Lose the opportunity to put 2 mates in an aeroplane. Equally cost share on your solo navs and knock 2/3 off the price of the aircraft.

The PPL theory exam offers a good opportunity for you to assess your strong and week areas prior to tackling the individual CPL subjects.

Exposure to an additional flight test may help to expose you to the test regime and go someway to reducing subsequent test pressure.

Can add on a night rating and do your solo hours at night as part of your solo hours requirement. could result in you being eligible for an ATPL years earlier. (hard to get night command for many new starters in the industry)

An opportunity for a testing officer to identify your weaker areas and you can consolidate those on the way to a CPL

Could miss out on an opportunity to ferry an aircraft for a few hours

Wont have a licence to flash at the girls until a lot later

Left 270

17th Feb 2016, 20:33

Glenn has nailed it there on the last line, because the reason we become pilots is to impress the girls right? (Or blokes for the ladies)

Other noteworthy points, without a PPL you wouldn't be unable to wear any bars on your solo nav's

And you would be unable to say that you are a pilot every time someone said hello on your morning walk of 30+ min 3 days a week that you tell CASA about each year.

On a serious note ild sit it, it's a nice part way achievement to keep it interesting if nothing more, personally I've never used it but was worthwhile.

TOUCH-AND-GO

17th Feb 2016, 21:10

Wont have a licence to flash at the girls until a lot later

I tend to generally flash out my ASIC. That seems to get them going..:ok:

jjhews

19th Feb 2016, 22:31

jjhews

21st Feb 2016, 02:48

Thoughts from anyone else?

Flying Bear

21st Feb 2016, 03:19

As glenb has stated above...

There are many reasons why going through the PPL flight test step is beneficial and for mine, the cost is very minor and well worth it. The more exposure to an assessment regime the better, when you're starting out.

Further, I would offer that if at all possible, avoid VET Fee help. My observation is that, despite the platitudes offered by the large colleges offering this, you simply become a source of approx $100K to them - they will want to grab that money as quickly as possible and shovel you out the door. Granted, most likely with a CPL, but with bare minimum training / effort on their part and for this you will suffer when looking for a first job. Better you find a school that you feel comfortable with that does not purport to be an "airline training academy". It will be a relaxed, low key company with instructors that focus on the delivery of quality training (not mass management of large course groups) and should allow you to take the journey through training as quickly (or slowly) as you like and can afford.

Ixixly

21st Feb 2016, 04:31

jjhews, you might try posting this in The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions section if you want a response, also try waiting more than half a day, people are probably at work and tend not to get on until the evening.

tail wheel

21st Feb 2016, 21:09

Has anyone trained with Basair on the VET programs? Any thoughts, tips or items to look out for (from your experience), apart from the obvious ones, before signing up to the course? Tossing up between FTA and Basair.

I've gone through some of the old threads on this but they would be out of date. Looking for a more current insight from recent grads.

jjhews. Have you bothered to use our Search function? There are already a plethora of threads on Basair, without starting a new thread in our Airline News forum (now moved here):

PPRuNe Forums - Search Results (http://www.pprune.org/search.php?searchid=3753982)

jjhews

22nd Feb 2016, 08:19

tail wheel - this thread was moved here by the moderators. And read the second paragraph of my post.

turbopropulsion

25th Feb 2016, 06:16

What's really annoying is when a thread gets hijacked with:

"Hey, I have no idea about this profession, but I'd like to get all the information right now as it relates specifically to me.

- Here is my background--

-Will I be paid well?

- Do you think I'm too old?

- What's the likelihood of me finding work?

Thanks guys"

Just, stop. :ugh:

australianpilot

25th Feb 2016, 06:19

Hi everyone. I feel like I was in all your shoes about 10 years ago. I remember writing on here asking where I should look for my first job and with resounding "Kununurra" as most of the replies, I packing my bags at the age of 18 I managed to gain a job about 5 months after setting myself in the Kimberley.

If you would like help in choosing a flying school, finding a first job, what it's like in the industry or have any other questions, please don't hesitate to PM me. I'd be happy to help out.

Cheers

ReubenM

28th Feb 2016, 08:34

Hi, I'm looking for work and am prepared to go anywhere in Australia but would like some insight from the experiences of others that have been in my position in order to help me make sound choices now to set me up for my long term goal.

Goal: I love GA and would love to stay in GA for the foreseeable with my long term sights set on Air Ambulance/RFDS or other aeromedical group.

Current basic qualifications:
>Australian CPL and MECIR (current with recent command IFR)
>Grade 3 instructor rating
>Approx 300hrs TT (incl. some C210 time)
>HR truck license
>Registered Nurse

My options as I see them are to pursue instructing or charter or possibly a mix. I have been told that hours as an instructor are looked upon less favourably than those spent in charter. What are your thoughts on which path is the best in terms of my own development and experience as well as setting me up best for my goal as stated above? Perhaps some of you have been in this situation and could offer some insight.

Many thanks,
Reuben

Kiloaranov

29th Feb 2016, 11:23

I have a PPL and am looking to go on and finish my CPL and MECIR.

I'm currently torn between ADFA, Redcliffe Aero club, RACWA, Thunderbirds or Basair/Sydney aviators. Has anyone been to any of these schools recently?

I'm an international student and don't really have the option of going in for a visit. I have rang them up and had lovely phone conversations with each one of them. Does anyone have any advice? Cheers!

Stanley1985

29th Feb 2016, 13:02

Hi all!

I have a casa fixed wing ppl, and am intending to get a rotary licence too. May I know which schools are recommended?

Thank you!!!

Kiloaranov

29th Feb 2016, 15:02

I am looking for latest reviews of some of Australia's best flight schools. This is for any international students looking to get the most of their flying in Australia. I have purposely left out organisations that work with cadets, as those interested in cadet programmes wouldn't really be interested in such a thread anyway.

I personally have a PPL and am now looking to move on to CPL and MECIR.

I am currently researching and looking in to these schools -
Aero dynamic Flight academy
Redcliffe Aero Club
Basair Aviation College/Sydney Aviators
Royal Aero Club of WA
Thunderbirds Aero Service

If anyone could help me review these schools I would be very grateful and it would help me greatly in making an informed decision.

Cheers!

Squawk7700

29th Feb 2016, 19:05

See above....

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/521632-newbie-flying-training-advice-merged.html

truthinbeer

29th Feb 2016, 19:49

You may be better off posting your question in a helicopter biased forum. In any event you will want to indicate where you want to train.

thorn bird

29th Feb 2016, 23:10

Mate the best schools are in New Zealand, but there is a wait list.

Nick 123

1st Mar 2016, 00:24

I did my CPL and MECIR at Aero Dynamic Flight Academy and could not speak more highly of them. Alisdair is a top bloke and a very good Instructor. Would be money well spent.

hillbillybob

4th Mar 2016, 05:22

have done renewals with Redcliffe and found them great, plenty of coworkers up here have come through racwa and have generally been happy with their training and seem to be good operators

Micheal Mo

4th Mar 2016, 17:03

Good evening

I am Michael. I am keen on aviation so I am now planing to obtain the PPL from Australia but there are many flight schools in Australia. i am confused about which one is good or bad; therefore is there anyone who can give me some recommendation? my budget is under AUD$26000(not including accommodation)

thank you very much:ok:

jorget

8th Mar 2016, 11:50

Hello everyone,
I'm looking at schools in Gold coast and brisbane to get my CPL and MEIFR I have applied for two of them BASAIR and AAA haven't got any acceptance letters yet, as I'm going for the VET FEE Option I only applied in those two.
I found GC schools are cheaper than Brisbane, schools like Air Goldcoast and wings Academy, just wondering if there's anyone who went aND trained there can give me some advice on these 4 Schools or what's the word about them, i found some post on the Internet but they are not very current.
I appreciated any help, thank you.

Bomber ARIS

9th Mar 2016, 12:26

Hello all,

As the title suggests, I'm looking to do an MEA Instrument Rating in Melbourne and am after advice as to the 'best' provider.

In particular, I'm looking for a really solid ground school foundation. I have passed my IREX, but want a thorough grounding in the practical aspects of instrument flying, e.g. calculating terrain clearance for OEI departures, etc.

Thanks for any and all advice.

mcgrath50

9th Mar 2016, 21:33

Steve Pearce at Peter Bini Advanced Flight training. :ok: An old salt who has forgotten more about twin IFR than I will ever know.

Old Akro

9th Mar 2016, 21:53

The best school is the one that has the instructor that you get on well with. Do the leg work and meet some.

I would suggest that once you've ticked the IREX box, the best learning is in the air or by yourself developing wx forecast reading skills and becoming very, very familiar with the charts and the GPS you will fly. Practice with an online simulator.

Right now; I'd decide if you are going to go the AsA route or Jepp route and whether you will go paper or iPad. The training you do will entrench this choice. If you go iPad, then get sorted with battery backup, external bluetooth GPS unit, kneepad / holders, etc. Choose your program and become fluent with it. IMHO Avplan is a better IFR program than OZrunways, but I prefer Jepp charts, so I have Avplan for flight planning & Jeppview for flying procedures. There is no good reason for this. Its just what I like. In flight Jeppesen Flitedeck is best, but it needs a windows based tablet and it all becomes harder than iPads (I carry a dedicated mini plus my day to day big one as backup).

There are less school / instructor options now under the new part 61 licence rules. Some of the best guys have not bothered to maintain their test officer status and others have effectively "closed their books" and are not taking new students. Thanks CASA. Another step forward.

This is especially so if you need to hire a twin. If you don't have a twin endorsement or limited twin time, remember that the aircraft type you do the MECIR rating in will be the easiest aircraft type to hire / be insured in. Its best to do the training in an aircraft type you will fly.

In alphabetic order; start by visiting Bini, MFS & Vortex.

fizflyer

9th Mar 2016, 22:44

speaking from my own training, Steve Pearce at Bini's, is the greatest. Kind person, exceptionally knowledgeable, still writes the ifr quiz questions for the Flight Safety Magazine (i think), and puts you at ease to learn. I remembered saying to him at my yearly renewals that its like seeing your annual dentist checkup, but I always came out without pain and smiling for another year.
Difficulty is he,s so booked up you may not be able to be instructed by him, probably by other instructors??
good luck

Bomber ARIS

10th Mar 2016, 07:22

Thanks so much for the quality responses.

I have a little single-engine IF experience from overseas, and can/could generally keep the aircraft the right way up. I also have a twin endorsement on a Duchess from what seems like a thousand years ago, not sure how much use that will be.

I am already equipped with iPad + OzRunways, so will probably just lazily continue with AsA unless there is a compelling reason to switch.

Old Akro, you mention the subsequent hiring of a twin. I hadn't actually thought that far ahead, but it is a great point. I had assumed all the available training aircraft would be much of a muchness; is there one that is safer, or faster, or cheaper.......or EASIER FOR THE TEST!?

Thanks again for the shared wisdom

Old Akro

10th Mar 2016, 08:00

EASIER FOR THE TEST!

An aeroplane is an aeroplane. Its what you are familiar with. You'll find the schools will have Partenavia's, Travelairs or Seminole's as options.

Twin's are not all that easy to hire - especially with low twin time. Your options are likely to be either the school you use or Blue Demon. Thats why I suggest thinking about what aircraft you want to hire then using the MECIR training to build hours on type.

john_tullamarine

10th Mar 2016, 08:23

Years ago, I did most of my training for the rating on an Aztruck and then switched to the Partenavia (can't quite recall what the reason was).

However, the Partenavia was a delight to handfly and a breeze to operate for the test.

The DCA examiner was well known to me and gave me a good working over - all good fun - I think the autopilot "failed" shortly after the first takeoff.

Suggest you do the rating test on the Partenavia and then worry about fancier machines in which the throttles have some relationship to the airspeed and the wheels go up and down.

Stationair8

10th Mar 2016, 09:54

Partenavia-Italian for induction icing.

Aztec-love pumping them wheels up with an EFATO, unless it has dual hydraulic pumps.

Centaurus

10th Mar 2016, 11:51

e.g. calculating terrain clearance for OEI departures, etc.

You need a specialist performance engineer in individual runway analysis chart design for that sort of stuff. You won't get that in general aviation as it is normally aircraft type specific and the analysis would need to cover each obstacle liable to encroach the planned flight path including curved departures if needed for terrain reasons.

The name is Porter

10th Mar 2016, 19:40

Steve Pearce, Bini's. :ok: A practical, no nonsense instructor.

Ganjesh

14th Mar 2016, 08:05

Hello,
My name is Ganesh and I'm an Indian citizen. I hold a FAA CPL with no work experience. I'm 32 yrs old and have done a lotta odd jobs in the meantime and would like to put my foot down and get into aviation. Eventually, I would like to migrate to australia/new Zealand.

If I studied instructor rating in either of the countries help me in getting a job as an instructor in a flying school? Or is there any other possibilities.
I appreciate any information that will help. Either post IR comments here or you could email me.

Thanks a ton.

The Green Goblin

14th Mar 2016, 13:51

No chance.

If a labor government ever gets back into power, you'd have more chance arriving by boat and claiming asylum.

radiodude

14th Mar 2016, 14:29

So what happens to all of the Indian students that learn to fly in Australia? I'm assuming they don't stay and work in the industry?

donpizmeov

14th Mar 2016, 16:46

I am not sure how much it is to buy a job in Jetstar these days, but it has both NZ and Australian bases. Could well be worth a look.

ZKSUJ

14th Mar 2016, 18:49

For NZ if you are not a citizen or PR then forget it. Being a pilot with out any major selling points will not get you a work permit here

Wizofoz

14th Mar 2016, 18:58

That's the rub- unfortunately your age puts you outside the working visa window, so the main trouble is gaining residency- as has been said, a simple CPL is not enough to gain entry as a skilled migrant.

Do you have any other qualifications?

maesaithwameh

14th Mar 2016, 23:22

I know of two full time oportunities in both countries that have been advertised by for over 6months and as yet unfilled. I also know of several other opportunities for hour building that are taken up by Europeans every year without visa's because Aussies just don't have the drive.

Tell that to the many newbie pilots looking for their first jobs in the hot and humid NT and WA.

neville_nobody

15th Mar 2016, 03:30

Really? And where is this magical place that Australian pilots are to lazy to work?

Atticus Finch

18th Mar 2016, 03:59

Has anyone used Pinstripe Solutions lately for job preparation and interview/resume help? Ive seen a few posts about them but they are 4 years old. They look good to me but would love to hear any personal experiences with them (or other similar companies)

I've ised Pinstripe and she is great!

Beef Noodle

29th Mar 2016, 05:26

I know I'm starting to think about the first job a bit early (having only done 10hrs towards RPL) but having been around the aviation industry all my life I know the CPL is something I'm definitely going to pursue and am passionately committed to.

I'm well aware that the first job is going to be a tricky one and I want to get as much info and advice as early as possible so I can make good decisions throughout my training. The training school I'm currently at has a good reputation and I'll definitely be sticking with them through to PPL at the very least. The biggest aircraft they train on is a C182RG. I notice that a lot of charter companies up north (and just in general) are conducting operations with C210's and Twins. Is it worth trying to find a flight school that can conduct training in C210's instead? Would employers even look at young, green, fresh CPL's who did all of their CPL training in smaller Cessnas?

Any advice would be great. I've spent a good deal of time looking through the forum. A lot of the threads seem to be from around 2009 so would be good for some up to date info on the job market too. Is up north still the place to go early in the year? Thanks in advance.

Noodle.

outnabout

1st Apr 2016, 12:49

It is always interesting watching the Chief Pilots blood pressure rise, and just pray that you are not the cause.

The current reason for the rise is watching the CP sift through resumes which have been submitted in the past 6 months. The CP telephones, and emails the people of interest that may have a chance at a job. What sends the blood pressure skyrocketing is when there is no reply to the voice message, and no reply to the email.

Here is a word of advice to a newby. If you submit your resume, then obviously you are interested in working for the company. If a CP takes the time to contact you, if your circumstances have changed (you now have a job or you have lost interest entirely or it's a bad time) it takes 2 minutes to phone back and say Thanks, but no thanks. That will be remembered....ignore the email / phone message, and that too will be remembered.

You thought elephants had a long memory? Trust me, a CPs memory is longer....

Slameye

2nd Apr 2016, 18:07

It seems to me that this bloke is taking each of these non replies as a personal slight against the honor of his family name. Is he taking applications for entry level stuff or A380 Captains? I understand his frustration having worked in a company with no HR Dept. Each manager was required to fill vacancies in their team and it was quite frustrating at times. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I am no CP. But I have been in leadership positions in various organisations for most of my working life and one thing I learnt about leadership very early on was to stress about the stuff that will get people hurt and just let the sh!t go through to the keeper. Because at the end of the day the person that does not return a call or email has failed the very first step in getting ANY job and thus has done you a favor by reducing the amount of time you have to spend interviewing.

outnabout

5th Apr 2016, 10:37

You are possibly correct, Siameye - if a newby can't be arsed to return a phone call and an email, then they probably don't deserve an interview.

Blatchy

11th Apr 2016, 01:05

Hey everyone

Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong area.

I am in my late twenties, working in corporate sales, however due to a lack of interest in this career I am pursuing my lifelong dream to fly and possibly turn it into a career. My current approach is to keep working within my current position (due to the reasonable income) whilst studying and training towards my ppl with night vfr rating. If I still have the bug after completing this then I will move forward and complete the other necessary qualifications (cpl, Meir etc). I am a bit of an adventurist, and would like to pursue bush flying in various environments due to the challenge and opportunity to live in developing nations (I have lived in Asia before so aware of the risks) before possibly chasing an airline position.

Firstly I am writing this to see if any of you have recommendations for flight schools in New Zealand. I am based in Christchurch but don't mind travelling a little if required.

Secondly can anyone give me a good approximate of the total cost I should be expecting? All the pricing I have been finding on forums is from the late 2000's so I am unsure how relevant that would be now.

Also, how many hours are required to obtain a type rating for aircraft (eg c172, pa28 etc), and would it be more cost effective or advantageous to complete flight training in a cheaper aircraft then obtain a type rating for the others?

Thanks

Pete