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BahrainLad
3rd May 2002, 08:29
From the Gulf Daily News, 3rd May 2002.

Setback for airline
MANAMA

Qatar and Oman have declined to pay more capital to bail out Gulf Air.

"Qatar and Oman have officially refused to grant (more) funds demanded" to help financially stricken Gulf Air, also owned by Abu Dhabi and Bahrain, an airline official said.

He said talks between Gulf Air management and Abu Dhabi were ongoing.

"Abu Dhabi has not yet spoken but it says, in principle, that it stands by the company."

According to the official, the Gulf Air board of directors "could meet next week."

Gulf Air asked the four owner states during an emergency meeting in Abu Dhabi on April 22 to increase its capital by $272.5 million (BD103m) in a bid to overcome a crisis worsened by the September 11 attacks in the US.

The government representatives then met again on April 30, but an expected announcement on the airline's fate was not forthcoming as the officials had received no directives from their governments.


http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Articles.asp?Article=22185&Sn=BNEW

Joe Monsoon
3rd May 2002, 14:35
Just heard that Bahrain's going to buy the whole thing.:cool:

BahrainLad
3rd May 2002, 14:37
A source? Didn't think there was anything to buy: only 'assets' are the traffic rights which AFAIK are controlled by the owner states?

Joe Monsoon
3rd May 2002, 14:46
AFAIK ? ? ?

BahrainLad
3rd May 2002, 14:54
AFAIK....As Far As I Know

Icarus
3rd May 2002, 15:26
Interesting one this now.
If Oman/Qatar are not going to invest and either Bahrain or Bahrain/Abu Dhabi continue then Oman and Qatar will want ther share holding bought; which is worth one quarter of about -380 Million!
So instead of paying in 25 million or thereabouts, they shall have to cough up almost 95 million to pay their share of the debt in order to leave!
I guess this is (one of the reasons) why GF is in so much trouble; obviously the board cannot see beyond the end of their noses or think much beyond the next few hours!

Anyhow, it's about time these two moved away as they are the biggist culprits to GF's demise.
As for traffic rights etc; so what. Maybe it's about time GF shrank back a little, consolidated and then come back with a vengance; this will be possible through one owner (Bahrain) although the airport will need sorting out if it is to operate as a proper hub. (Raymond take note!! ;) )

Joe Monsoon
3rd May 2002, 15:27
Thanks. Good luck.:)

Abbeville
3rd May 2002, 15:50
Watch out for a Far Eastern influence

jongar
3rd May 2002, 17:36
I heard a rumour - I guess this is the best place for it, that Singapore have offered to manage the airline, this in the same week as they sign a FF pact with Emirates

boiler
4th May 2002, 04:12
Aren't SH&E already "trying" to manage the airline? Any inside info on them? If Qatar and Oman do not pay up, will SH&E stay?

G.Khan
4th May 2002, 11:07
If there is any money/useful position to be made from it then I imagine SIA would love to offer a management contract to Gulf Air.

Having worked a considerable length of time with both airlines I can realisitcally say that the Flight Deck and Cabin Crew have nothing to fear should such a management contract become reality.

On the other hand there are several hundred others in what they perceive as 'safe jobs' who might wish to consider an alternative career!

gulf_slf
5th May 2002, 10:03
So if SIA comes into manage GF we could have a situation of where one airline that doesnt know if it is rightside up, in tight turns, being directed one that doesnt know its left from its right, in the dark......!!

If you get my drift.....

Should be interesting in the near future...

Should get BA to come back in a part owner / alliance partner and call it 'Gulf Aviation'....now there is a thought?

;)

2high
5th May 2002, 14:01
My goodness scanscan - I think you wrote that after a few at the rugby club. True however.

boiler
5th May 2002, 14:28
If they decide to liquidate the airline, how different will the company be if they hire all the 'useless' people back? The people who know their jobs are very few, and are way outnumbered by the 'useless' ones. In addition to all that, politics rules in the Arab world particularily at GF. So then what?

G.Khan
5th May 2002, 23:45
I can see the scenario that Scan Scan(hic!)Scan mentions as working in some parts of the world but somehow, for the political reasons mentioned above, I don't see it happening in Bahrain.

Was "Jack" still alive when the accident happened? Was it him or his son that gave the assurance that the report would be issued pronto?

brakedwell
6th May 2002, 15:19
gulf_slf
If you can find four Herons, four Doves, a load of surplus khaki uniforms and some boozy old pilots you will have the makings of a happy new outfit. You could call it: Gulf Aviation 2002

BahrainLad
6th May 2002, 15:38
....and a chap called Lawrence...!

G.Khan
6th May 2002, 23:39
Try - Alan Bodger!

ironbutt57
7th May 2002, 14:46
Don't think funds availability is the problem....just convincing the folks forking it over that this time will be different.....hope it is..

boiler
7th May 2002, 15:23
News has it that Al-Hamer is out and the new Persident and Chief Executive might be James Hogan. Can anyone from GF confirm this?

Icarus
7th May 2002, 16:03
Yes.
Fax from Shk Hamdan UAE to all GF VP's received earlier today (about 5 hours ago) confirms the appointment effective from Sunday 16 May as Acting PCE.

kimmeke
7th May 2002, 17:08
I just have one question than:

How does it happen that GF is actually in the recruitment process for 80 additional A320 crews stationed in BAH?:confused:

BahrainLad
7th May 2002, 17:09
Gulf Air names new chief executive
Posted: Tuesday, May 07, 2002

MANAMA:



Regional airline Gulf Air has named James Hogan as its acting president and chief executive of the airline effective May 12.

The appointment was announced by Gulf Air chairman Shaikh Hamdan bin Mubarak Al Nahyan, who said Hogan was chosen after consulating the ministers of the four owning states -- Bahrain, Qatar and Oman and the Abu Dubai emirate of UAE.

Hogan has years of experience in the aviation industry in senior positions. Most recently, he was the chief executive Officer of Ansett Airlines in Australia and Bmi British Midlands Airways, UK.

"I would like to thank Mr Ibrahim Al Hamer for his continued dedication and support in developing the airline and also for his cooperation during his presidency," Shaikh Hamdan said. "Hogan was selected from numerous candidates for his experience and aviation background. I trust you will all give him your complete support as he begins the restructuring as directed by the board," Sheikh Hamdan told the airline staff.

A statement from Gulf Air said the appointment would add impetus to its restructuring process that began in March.

Industry sources estimate Gulf Air's debt at $800 million.

The troubled airline is seeking a $272.5 million capital injection from the owning states to save it from insolvency.-- TradeArabia News Service

http://www.tradearabia.com/routes/travel_tourism/News.asp?Article=34761

sirwa69
8th May 2002, 05:44
So who the hell is James Hogan anyway, Is he perhaps the brother of Paul? He'll have to have a big sense of humour:D :D :D

Gulf Air to become new Hogan's Heroes!!! (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Articles.asp?Article=22517&Sn=BNEW)

;)

gulf_slf
8th May 2002, 10:48
Brakedwell,

I know a few old stalwarts who fit the bill .... a couple rusting away in the west country and another in Croydon and one in Australiia..

Have to get the old man measured to see if he still get into his khaki shorts ...and had better return the GF flying jacket I nicked off him in my teenage days....the females loved it....!!

Had better hurry if you want to get them together again ...if only for a few beers down at the Sailing Club !!!

Pip! Pip!

kimmeke
8th May 2002, 14:54
And still....what about the big recruitment going on right now.

Could it be that the are ending all the old contracts because they are too expensive and do they want to replace those with new contracts or ar they just expanding as well which makes place for 80 additional crews???

80 crews corresponds with 16 additional aircraft!!!!!Still seems a lot to me!
:eek: :confused:

kimmeke
9th May 2002, 12:37
Troubled Middle Eastern airline Gulf Air is awaiting confirmation from two of its shareholders that they will provide extra cash to help rescue the carrier following a downturn in business since 11 September. The governments of both Qatar and Oman failed to respond by a 30 April deadline set by the Gulf Air board for an emergency cash injection of $258 million. The other two major shareholders, Abu Dhabi and Bahrain, have already agreed support.

Abu Dhabi and Bahrain are the main hubs for Gulf Air - the region's oldest airline - and have provided the most financial support for the airline's growth. Over the past decade, Oman Air and Qatar Airways have developed as national carriers for the other two shareholders, and analysts in the region believe there is greater government support for these carriers than for Gulf Air.

Bahrain's prime minister Sheikh Khalifa bin Salman al Khalifa has been quoted by official news agency BNA as being firmly committed to the survival of Gulf Air. He told the Bahrain cabinet on 28 April that the carrier represented "a symbol of co-operation and solidarity among member states of the Gulf Co-operation Council", which includes Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

The carrier has already had a $160 million cash bail-out from the shareholders since 11 September, and has called in consultants Simat Helliesen & Eichner to look at cost-cutting and restructuring. Local sources say that almost 500 staff will be laid off as part of the proposed changes, although Gulf Air will not confirm this.

(FlightInternational, 7 May 2002)


:confused: :eek:

boiler
9th May 2002, 12:57
Sources say that over 350 have already left through 'early retirement'. Not sure if there are more still to go. Many cabin crew have already been let go too.

boiler
9th May 2002, 13:01
From etravelblackboard.com:

Hogan Rises High in CEO's Estimation

The man who almost ran Ansett, James Hogan, seems to have found a boss with deeper pockets than one-time Tesna saviours Solomon Lew and Lindsay Fox. And, in a neat turn of events, it's an employer who is happy to credit Hogan for his "almost" effort.

In a press release to announce Hogan as the new president and CEO of Gulf Air, the airline's chairman, Sheikh Hamdan bin Mubarak Al Nahyan, gave his tenuous tenure at Ansett a little more wings than it had. "Prior to this engagement he was the chief executive officer of Ansett Airlines in Australia and BMI British Midlands Airways, UK," it stated.

Hogan was appointed by Lew and Fox in January to run a relaunched Ansett before the Melbourne millionaires bailed out in February.

Having left his post as chief operating officer at British Midlands last August after a fall-out with chairman Sir Michael Bishop, Hogan will be hoping for clearer skies at Gulf Air.

kimmeke
9th May 2002, 13:07
Then why are they still hiring???????

Icarus
10th May 2002, 05:45
SH&E recommend a further 5% reduction in staff, which will not likely affect productivity as more than 5% are unproductive on a daily basis anyway!
Or is it to release funds for the new BHD38,000 per month CEO?

Let's hope he is worth every penny and we get more than 'one more year of hope' just like the last 12 months.
All talk,very little action, lots of indecsion when faced with tough choices, and continued nepotism from those on the top two tiers.

Hopefully this tough/brash Aussie will sort it out!

Let's hope that there really will be 'clear skies' ahead.

Icarus (with a 'c'!) :D

boiler
10th May 2002, 15:36
Wow! If the new CEO is getting BH.D. 38,000 a month, and the new Finance guy probably in the same ballpark range, no wonder GF needs a cash injection every year.

BahrainLad
10th May 2002, 15:45
You sure it's not US$38,000 rather than BD?

Icarus
11th May 2002, 04:43
The finance guy is on US75,000 per month I understand, for 6 months and is tasked with finding a permanent replacement as VP Finance.
The new boy has supposedly had 'cash up front' as a part of the deal due to GF being 'high risk'!, the right to bring in his own team at the top as well.

Yes it is a lot by any means, but then many other CEO's in Europe/US are being paid more than that with stock options on top. There are no stock options with GF (and besides if you held any you would be a fool as they are currently worth less than nothing!).

Again, this is only what I have heard over the last few days, but I have no reasons to doubt the sources, but that does not say that I am (or they are) right.

Dr. Hibbert
11th May 2002, 06:51
And that's nothing to what "disappears" from GF's kitty every month. It doesn't really matter who's the boss - they have to have the authority to put a stop to this sort of thing, or they might as well not bother.

Propellor
12th May 2002, 17:00
:confused:
By golly, 30k of Bahraini Dinars is U.S.$ 100700
Now that is somewhat far fetched for any guy at any position for a months' work. Anywhere.
Of course, if there are any such places, please do let me know - I will strive for them in my next life!
By the way, Icarus, you were a manager in GF in the past. Do you still retain a position ?

Icarus
12th May 2002, 17:57
Still am (at least this week! :D )

boiler
12th May 2002, 20:11
So what are the people at GF saying about SH&E? Do they know their stuff, or are they full of 'hot air'?

Icarus
13th May 2002, 03:58
What do people have to say about anything?
Mixed views I guess.
Are you asking for mine?

One has to understand the reasons behind why a body of consultants have been brought in I guess.

Some (very senior) staff here are being as 'un-cooperative' as possible towards them, some are working very hard with them to make things better. I hope there are more working with them than against them!

This is (i.e. they are) a life line for GF, anyone who constructively works against that is not working in the best interests of the company overall; but then again, that is why GF is in a mess anyway; too many people looking after their own interests. I do not believe there is or has been 'massive corruption' in the lead up the mess GF are in. I believe it is more down to irresponsible management and a number of high level staff continuously wishing to play 'Mr Nice Guy' and to not deal with issues that require them to face the truth. This is far more damaging (especially long term) than creaming off a bit of cash (which I do not condone at all). Empire builders and control freaks who surround themselves with 'Yes Men' so that their own inablilities/inefficiencies are never exposed are more a threat to the overall health and prosperity of any company and its employees in my eyes; and GF has far too many of these people, some have been here a long time, some have only been here perhaps 15 months or so!

If SH&E and the new Chief have 'carte-blanche' then this will be (mostly) rectified.
If GF can find the "Political Will' to do what is right, even if it is a tough call and their mates wont like them anymore, then GF will not only survive, it will prosper.

Oh, and of course, someone will need to take a very sharp knife to a number of departments living on the third floor and bring people in who know what they are doing!

BahrainLad
14th May 2002, 18:13
From the Gulf News:

Gulf Air all set to unveil new strategy
Manama |By A Correspondent | 14-05-2002
Print friendly format | Email to Friend

The management of cash-strapped Gulf Air is expected to unveil its strategy in a few days, news reports said yesterday.

The new president and chief executive, James Hogan, took over Sunday from the outgoing president, Ibrahim Al Hamer, said a report by English language daily The Bahrain Tribune.

Hogan, an Australian, spent a busy couple of days with top officials at the airline headquarters in Manama will very soon announce his new strategy that will include route structure, schedules and fleet, engineering and maintenance, finance and human resources and "issues related to achieving the overall objective to make the airline commercially viable," said the report.

The board of directors appointed the international consultants Simat Helliesen and Eichner, Inc (SH&E) to make recommendations for restructuring and restoring the company's profitability.

In the last few months, the SH&E has conducted a comprehensive assessment of the airline's business processes and strategies.

It was given a mandate by the board to develop and manage an action plan for restructuring with the goal of ensuring the airline's long-term viability and its ability to cope with the increasing competition for high quality air services in the rapidly growing Gulf region.

In line with the strategy, the airline announced a few months back an early retirement package for long-serving employees of the four owner states - the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar and Oman, to cut jobs as an austerity measure.

http://www.gulf-news.com

Propellor
15th May 2002, 16:21
I am told that there was a meeting called by James Hogan for all the managers.
Icarus, if you wre there, tell us about it first hand.
Do you think this guy can pull it off for the company,or is just one more chair warmer?

Icarus
16th May 2002, 04:52
Yes I was there.

And I did think about posting almost immediately afterwards; however, as I was still quite upset/angry and disappointed I left it.

Don't hold your breath! But I will put a somewhat 'matter of fact' and 'unemotional' post about it either later today or over the weekend (FRI/SAT here!).

boiler
16th May 2002, 07:49
The Gulf newspapers mentioned that GF might lease out 3 of the 5 A340's, bring back the 2 A330's that were leased out, and then lease/buy 5 A320's and one A330 (pending cash injection from the owner states). I remember talking to someone from GF who said that one of the things that caused GF to go downhill was too many A320's when they didn't really nead that many. That was when they had only 12. If they do bring in the additional A320's, that would mean having a total of 17. It is going to be interesting.

G.Khan
16th May 2002, 09:51
One of GFs most financially successful periods was when it side-lined the TriStar, which had become expensive to run, and went full out on the B767.

One wonders why they are now so keen on the Airbus? Cheap to buy and even more expensive to run.

Hope it is nothing to do with the large brown envelopes that Airbus are famous for handing out?;)

Icarus
16th May 2002, 13:15
OK let’s see what I can remember! :)

Essentials of the meeting to GF management hosted by our new Chief Executive, SH&E and Senior VP’s.

From what I can recall the meeting (presentation) was titled:

The Future of Gulf Air: The Road to Profitability.

The new Chief briefed us on his background and the need to change, adopt a mission statement and to accept that as managers we have to embrace certain values. (Integrity, respect, be fair, transparent, be more proactive and take on some social responsibility).

The fact that we have around two weeks to go before there is an extraordinary general meeting (of the board) , the main issue being the re-finance package that is required.
He walked us through the current state of affairs and how bad the financial situation is and that recapitalisation is required immediately and that GF has to prove to the board that it is worth continued investment.

SH&E then took over to brief on matters of their direct involvement.
The mater of a restructured organisation was touch upon although that will not be released for perhaps another 10 days or so. Changes are required in the network and fleet so that we can operate where/when is most commercially beneficial and with lower costs. Problems with our primary engineering contractor are going to be addressed, changes to business processes etc. etc. etc.
The concentration on BAH as a primary hub and what it is going to take to make that work. New aircraft (5 A320 one A330 plus the 2 back from TAM); assumptions that all the A340 fleet will be disposed of by a wet lease agreement.
Cost reductions of almost 18M BHD are targeted and revenue opportunities of BD20M+ identified (does this mean net on the balance sheet BD39M+ I do not know, I do not work for finance!).
Staff at HDQ to be reduced by 18% (I was wrong in my previous post obviously!) but currently no reduction in cabin/tech crew; that would be subject to what AIMS decides (assuming the people that are going to use are competent ,which I doubt as this system will probably not meet our needs and the same people who chose it will administer it so I can’t see it being much good myself!).

The we moved onto a spell with HR. Very boring so I am not going to waste my time with it here! (Boring subject, not the chap who gave it I hasten to add).

SH&E then showed us the top level pages of an MS Project plan (wooooooo very swish! I think not) which indicated we have to get our acts together to be ready by 1 October implementation.
The rest was mediocre. KPI plans and a need for us to cascade this information to our staff. I am Saturday night over my usual monthly dinner outing with them (boys if you are reading this it is not my turn to pay this time!! And no I will not put on my entertainment budget! Times are hard you know!).

Then a few closing words from the new boy telling us what was expected of us.

Overall, nothing unknown, nothing exciting, but nothing too bad either, although the overused ‘move forward’ phrase (which makes me cringe every time I hear it as it is so false. Uugghhh!!) seemed to be ‘en vogue’ with the new Chief (please find something a little more “English” or “Australian” for the next time James these American phrases are just like Americans, full of promise but short on delivery!).

Why was I upset, disappointed and angry? :(

Because as with every presentation, the closing move is to open the floor.
Oh boy, here we go!
Will we get an intelligent question? HA HA HA!

After all we had been told, six very silly people opened their mouths to prove to the whole world just how silly they really are!

Six or seven different questions, one underlying statement!

“What’s in it for me! What’s in it for my staff! What are you going to do for me! “

Well F*****G HELL! Boys shut the **** up and ask what you can do for GF, what you can do for your staff; otherwise just p*** off and let those who really care get on with it. This is our last chance you d*ck-heads!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

That is why was I upset, disappointed and angry and I really wanted to say all of that! (but far more diplomatically of course; trouble is, do that and no-one really gets the underlying message!)

Mr Hogan I beg you; if you can only change one thing in this company then it MUST BE this attitude.
I am so sorry you had to listen to this **** on your first introduction to ‘the management’. I am surprised you are still here. The fact that you are, must mean you are serious.
Good.

I believe we now have a chance.

ironbutt57
16th May 2002, 13:39
The "brown paper bag" is how Airbus always pawns off their plastic french airplanes...in spite of their beautiful long wings.just like BAE and their commuter planes in the states...(now littering the Mojave desert)....

Icarus
16th May 2002, 15:50
Boilermaker,
We may have had 12 at one time but 1 was written off in AUH (tell me about it, my g/f was on the overwing!) and the other was driven into into waters North of BAH 2 years ago almost; so that's 10 left. 5 to come will mean a fleet of 15 320's!

The problem was not too many 320's, it was (probably) too much bad scheduling of the 320 (as with the others!). This appears to be being corrected in a number of ways, SH&E for one, and the departure of some of the planning staff, and the those remaining behaving themselves for once (probably due to pressure from SH&E to get it right).

BahrainLad
16th May 2002, 18:11
Icarus, absolutely right. If GF can sort out the schedules/utilisation then they will have a fighting chance.

Why are A340s used BAH-DOH-BAH for instance and A320s used on BAH-ROM. That sort of thing is not particularly efficient.

Icarus
16th May 2002, 18:38
That's easy!

Mostly to get aircraft in position for long haul flights and use what may have been a positioning sector as a commercial flight.
That's what happens when your traffic rights are limited to only one of the four states but you need the aircrfat in another!
But then again why not operate a 'complexed flight' or 'funnel flight'; why? Systems have huge difficulties handling it and passengers soon catch on! QF spent hundreds of man years programming their systems to meet the demands of their marketing department to fulfil a SIN hub operation many years ago. Didnt last, threw it away after a matter of months, loads-a-money down the drain. :eek: (SH&E please take note!).

320 on FCO (which is closed now) was sensible in the fact it matched the demand, however, lack of IFE (in flight entertainment) and a little short on seat pitch made it a loser, 321 a better option but we dont have any! :D

boiler
16th May 2002, 19:35
Icarus,

Are you sure GF went to FCO with a 320? I was under the impression they used the 330's (even 767)? I think it is very unfair of you to put all the blame the scheduling dept. There are tons of other problems with GF, and yield is one of the most important reasons why. Because of competition from other airlines in the region, yield has been taking a downward spiral and that has not helped. As a result, a lot of the routes have a break-even S.F. of over 100%. The scheduling dept. can fill up the plane, and it will still lose money. Anyway, I just got off the phone with someone close to the sales dept. Don't expect SH&E to have a better schedule this winter. Let us face it, coming from the U.S. does not mean you know more about the markets than the people who have been working and monitoring the trends at GF for years. For example, I was told that SH&E was planning a daily trip from BAH to AMM, BEY and DAM in Winter!! A monkey would know there is no such demand to warrant this amount of frequencies (summer yes, but not winter). Going to NBO with an A320 is an interesting one (I think there is a payload restriction with that, so it will never make it). Same issue with going to MNL with a 763 (payload restrictions). Another example that was given to me was bilaterals. In one case, SH&E are planning 19 flights to CAI, when bilaterals say GF are allowed 13 only! So, don't put to much hope in SH&E yet. Oh by the way, expect more intra-gulf frequencies with wide-bodies aircraft too (for example. BAH-DMM-BAH in A330!!). Good luck guys. :confused:

backtobasics
16th May 2002, 20:49
Icarus, James Hogan was at bmi for a while and a lot of folks disliked his business school ways of changing the business. Folks though, will always find things to moan about and ignore the possibility of anyone being able to drive a new course. I liked a lot of what JH did at bmi. At least he was open and honest, and followed his promises through as best he could in the circumstances. Many difficult pilot issues were honoured in a company that does its best to **** its pilots off. I wish you all well in the Gulf.:)

Propellor
17th May 2002, 19:49
Icarus
Thanks for the postings. They were unbiased and informative. Please keep it up.


Boilermaker.
Yes, GFA did operate to Rome on the 320, not too long ago. And don’t count on your friend in the sales department to tell the future of the GFA schedules – they do not know if the 340s are being leased out next month, and what airplane is going to replace them. At the best, they can plan for the next week.

And everybody, is there any confirmation on the salary of JH? I'm just inquisitive.

Flybynite
17th May 2002, 19:59
Icarus

GF's problems have always been management related. As a self proclaimed manager you talk about the 320 on the FCO route. The route was flown by 330s and 767s. First management mistake - know your facts! The 320 would be hard pushed to make it fuelwise. Second management mistake - know your aeroplane. Third management mistake - spend more time managing and less time pontificating on the pages of PPrune.

kimmeke
17th May 2002, 20:07
I do not think there is any reason to become rude here!

1) A320 did fly FCO for GF!

2)A320 has the range to fly all the way to Rome!

So maybe you should get some facts straight before you start attacking people!

Flybynite
17th May 2002, 20:18
Sorry if I appeared rude. Just airing my views. When did the 320 fly to Rome?

boiler
17th May 2002, 21:03
Propellor,

The sales dept. recently had a meeting with SH&E in which the schedule was handed to them for comments. The examples I quoted had nothing to do with the A340 and so are perfectly valid.

BahrainLad
17th May 2002, 21:15
I believe 320s started to go to FCO about 3 years ago.

They also did Athens. I seem to remember a lot of pax complaints about the lack of IFE on the aircraft. This was rectified with a drop-down-LCD mod shortly after.

I don't think GF A330s have ever been seen at FCO.

Flybynite, I think the thread would be better served if in future you engaged brain before keyboard. Thanks!

Icarus
18th May 2002, 05:49
Oh boy, a quandry!

By replying to FBN am I 'rising to it' or 'lowering myself to his/her demeanour'? Maybe it's time for a poll on JB before I say anything!

Oh to hell with it!


FlyBy Nite:

1. GF's problems have always been management related.

True. I wish I was more senior than I am in the management team, maybe then I could either accept the responsibility your talk about or do something more about it.

2. As a self proclaimed manager you talk about the 320 on the FCO route. The route was flown by 330s and 767s.

Again true. It began with B767 paired with ZRH. About 3-4 years ago after ZRH closed an A320 operated for a matter of months, not even a full season.

3. First management mistake - know your facts!

I believe I do. In my area of specialisation you would be hard pushed to find anyone better, sorry!

4. The 320 would be hard pushed to make it fuelwise.

Rubbish. You just operate with a reduced payload capacity! Hence making it uneconomical, the usual GF short-sightedness I agree.

5. Second management mistake - know your aeroplane.

I do. But not from a technical point of view as not a pilot. But I know what it can/cannot carry under prevailing circumstances. Shame I do not work in capacity planning, we might do better if I did!

6. Third management mistake - spend more time managing and less time pontificating on the pages of PPrune.

Maybe I do sometimes, but I believe most of my posts contribute to the threads in a positive manner. You are entitled to your opinion of course.
Most of my posts are also made in my spare time and not during work hours. Are you saying I do not have the freedom to post here in my own time and I should commit myself to my work 24 hours a day? I dont think 100+ posts over 6-7 years is a lot of time on PPRUNE.

And finally, not that you would be aware so it's not your fault, as an agnostic, it is in fact impossible for me to pontificate!

Hogwash
18th May 2002, 07:08
The 320 was goinng to FCO a long time ago, more than 3 years. It also at this time carried on to Zurich.

ironbutt57
18th May 2002, 15:16
you tell 'em hoggie;) ;) ;) ;)

Human Factor
18th May 2002, 17:52
Don't want to get involved with a slanging match but GF defo operated 330s to FCO. Parked next to them enough times!

Icarus
18th May 2002, 19:02
Let's end this one then once and for all!

FCO opened in October 1993 and closed earlier this year.
During that time GF operated B767, A330 and A320 on that route's scheduled services ex the Gulf.

It is also possible that an A340 has dropped in as well ex LHR during times of disruption.

So in fact FCO had seen all aircraft types that GF has in its fleet over the last several years.

PS: heard a rumour today that Oman are now prepared to front up. They need the GF business at MCT otherwise the BAA (who recently acquired (wheres my dictionary!) the airport in partnership for development) may pull out!

scanscanscan
19th May 2002, 09:05
ICARUS..... A GF340 New York to Bahrain passenger flight did land at FCO.

Rumour was insufficient fuel loaded at New York,and this fuel load error was caused by the Bahrain ops computer defaulting to min zero fuel weight.

This min Zfw weight was then requested from the Computer generated flight plan machine in the USA.
i.e. The actual zero fuel weight was much higher.

The same Bahrain ops computer error,(default to min zero fuel weight) also occured that day on a Gf/ Dhl 757 freighter flight Bah/Bru, however the F/o on that flight noticed the error and the fuel load was ajusted prior to take off.

The Bah computer defaulted to min zero fuel if the Bahrain ops staff were required to do another task on the computer and then return to their original flight plan request to the USA.

The problem was fixed by causeing the computer to default to Max zero fuel weight.

Thought this may interest you and take your mind off the Australians BD38,000.00 per month salery and his indemnity.

2high
19th May 2002, 13:36
3Xscan

Yes quite right - a 340 lobbed into FCO because the capt. simply didn't put enough petrol in the thing to fly from JFK-BAH, and yes it was the ZFW that was out by a long way and yes it was the fact that the capt ignored all input from the 2 F/Os and told them to wind their necks in. Can't actually remeber if he got into any hot water but knowing GF they probably tried to fire the FSS - remember the 767 going stealth.

BahrainLad
19th May 2002, 14:37
Readers of the Bahrain Tribune may have already seen this...but I take the GDN so didn't.

Letters to the Editor - 19 May 2002.

Sir,
He started his career in the Ministry of Finance and National Economy and worked himself up to become the Undersecretary for Civil Aviation Affairs within Bahrain’s Ministry of Transportation. In December 2000, Ibrahim Abdulla Al Hamer was appointed President and Chief Executive of Gulf Air by the Board of Directors.
Ibrahim Al Hamer had all the necessary elements that would enable him to run such a company and succeed at it. Not only was he a leader, but he also had the skills, the knowledge, and the expertise to run an airline company. Bahrain’s Rulers highly recommended him to the Gulf Air Board, based on the significant role he played in improving Bahrain’s International Airport and making it one of the best in the region. He was also a part of Gulf Air long before he became its CEP and therefore was the most appropriate for the position.
He realised he will be encountering many obstacles in improving the company and understood that overcoming them will require a lot of time, effort, patience and control. Becoming Gulf Air’s CEP was the greatest challenge he faced and he was looking forward to it. ‘Quitting’ and ‘failing’ were not words he believed in, and neither were ‘dishonesty’ and ‘recklessness.’ He was ready to enter this difficult battle and lead it to its victory.
His first step was to enforce his ‘Winning Together’ objective among those in the company that are under his umbrella. This is not a one-man battle and the Gulf Air staff needed to understand that if the company was to succeed. He therefore worked on developing a corporate culture that strongly emphasised on teamwork, reliability, pride in performance, and finally, recognition and reward for productivity. He held many meetings with the employees to better understand their issues and gave everyone the opportunity not only to listen, but to act as well. Hence, he was able to spread a sense of composure among the employees as they realised they were being led by a respectable, sincere, and an honest hard-working man.
With that new objective, Ibrahim Al Hamer, along with every single employee in Gulf Air, worked hard to regain the company’s position among other airline carriers. They were headed towards a stable future, which, given time and further efforts, will result in the ultimate success they were all seeking. Once more, this was not an easy task for the CEP and there were many complications that kept him from completely achieving this goal in the short amount of time he was appointed to that position. First of all, Gulf Air was in debt and barely surviving when he first joined the company. Second of all, attempts at satisfying the needs of the four managing Gulf countries, each with its own requirements and preferences, complicated his task. Moreover, before he was able to make any further progress, he first had to deal with the never-ending issues that accumulated over the past. The final complication rose when some partner countries proposed developing a new system/structure for Gulf Air, led by foreign management, instead of him. Nevertheless, Ibrahim Al Hamer faced these agonising obstacles and continued fighting these battles, with whatever sparse support he got, giving it all his potency and effort.
Sixteen months later, the board responds to his continuous efforts by replacing him. They no longer had the understandable patience required to see the results of Ibrahim Al Hamer’s management. They did not recognise the crucial successes he has thus achieved in such a short, demanding time period. They did not appreciate the efforts he made to help improve this company. Instead, they deprived him of his right to achieve his objectives in a company he had known and been a part of for years, among people he had recently worked closely with. Is replacing him with someone who does not have as much knowledge about the company or the region really a better system/structure for Gulf Air? Why was such a decision made now, after years of abuse and millions in debt? Why was a qualified, Bahraini man denied the right to serve the entire five-year period?
Ibrahim Abdulla Al Hamer is our father and we are proud to be his children. We have decided to write this letter to let you know what an honest, hard-working man he is, one with great values and morals. We truly believe that had he been given the full five years he was originally allotted to act as CEP of Gulf Air, he would have been able to help the company surpass its previous level of achievement, without the need for a replacement. Since his time, energy, and efforts have gone unappreciated, we took it upon ourselves to express the unfairness of this situation, in which our father was given privileges as CEP that he was not able to entirely use, but which others before him have somewhat abused. Had he been given more time, he would have achieved what other Gulf Air CEPs have not achieved.
We sincerely hope this letter helped clarify any doubts you might have had regarding the replacement of our father.
Mai, Noor, Abdulla and Mohammed Al Hamer

Icarus
19th May 2002, 16:06
Brings tears to your eyes!

What about the appointment of an Assistant Airport manager in CAI just because the guy brown-noses him every time he flies in. GF have never has assistant airport managers not needed them. Circumvents all Personnel policies and needs of the user department, causes upset with other staff in CAI. Nice one!
This weeks after being told of 'transparency, honesty etc etc'.

Brings in his mates for comfort. And then they bring in theirs for the same reason. Favour after favour, disappointment after disappointment.

They talk the world and deliver nothing in 15 months, biggest disappointment in years GF!

What is more disappointing is that they are still here!

What GF needs is a hard nose b**tard at the top now, one who can make the tough decisions required now, today.
Someone who can tell his best mate "Sorry John, you've let me down it's time for you to go" instead of running away from it and let the crisis worsen. Someone who can recognise who is working and who is not; someone who can see who is competent and who is full of hot air.

It's time to crack the whip, or turn out the lights, nothing in between; but when you crack it Mr Hogan, make sure you direct it at the right people.

Too many looking after their own butt and blaming those below when they were never even given a chance to manage effectively in the first place!

VP's allowing incompetents to be promoted against the will of the department just because they are family or close to it.
Managers being dictated to in manners that limit their ability to manage. They know it wont work and so do you, obviously you dont care enough and of course, they can't answer you back.

How many times do we hear "Challenge me, Challenge me!" but when we do you all run away and hide, ignore us, forget us, watch over our failures and take no responsibility for it. Is that what being a VP is all about? Well I hope I never get to be a VP, I couldn't sleep at night!

Get to the core and quick.

Mr Al Hamer was a nice guy, still is and probably will be for the rest of his life, under other circumstances, yes, perhaps he would be the right man for the job.
But circumstances dictacted something far from what Mr Al Hamer could offer.

What GF needs is another Lord King!

It's going to be 'another long night'!

It needs to be 'another long night'!

scanscanscan
19th May 2002, 18:57
Rumour was....Lord King was asked by a Lhr BA engineer (who earned less than £20,000 a year before tax) if he considered his telephone number salery and share option package was justified compared to his?

Lord King answered, "I believe in paying what a person is worth!"

The following evening a BA747 with a full load and a problem engine was not signed off by the BA dispatching engineer.

Someone suggested maybe Lord King could sign instead.

It was then pointed out Lord King was not qualified to sign.

Hopefully the new chief at GF will have a kinder and more diplomatic answer ready for the "little people" that actually move the aircraft if asked about improveing their low salery.

A340Driver
20th May 2002, 15:47
BahrainLad thanks for the post from the GDN, I had missed that issue and was much amused. First of all let me say this, if Mr Al Hammers children wrote that then maybe we needed them as a PCE and not their father because as I recall he never wrote a letter, he brought his mate Neil to do that for him. Nice piece Niel, thanks really enjoyed it.
Icarus your comments were spot on mate and thank God we do still have a few people in management that feel something for this Airline of ours.
Mr Hogan I hope you brought a big stick with you because sure as hell you will need it.

boiler
20th May 2002, 15:55
If things have not changed in 15 months, is there any hope that things will if the useless people Al-Hamer brought in stay with GF? Will SH&E or Mr. Hogan have the courage to tell them to shape up or ship out?

mutt
21st May 2002, 03:30
Will SH&E have the POWER to ship them out? Or will they be protected by the tribe?


Cheers

Mutt

sirwa69
21st May 2002, 06:41
You aught to have heard the huge sigh of relief that went up over Al Ahli Mall when AA left BA :eek:

Very difficult to sack a Bahrain :o

Mind you he still has that million dollars he won in a raffle to fall back on ;) ;)

kimmeke
21st May 2002, 09:27
What do you all think what will happen the 29th of this month?

Will GF continue its existance or will it be split up?

Cheers.....

Icarus
21st May 2002, 10:40
I know that SH&E firmly believe that 'nothing' will happen to change the plans that have been put together so far. Perhaps some fine-tuning but nothing more than that as far as the operational future of the airline is concerned.

As for the management and administration, who know, only a handful on the 3rd floor and no-one else at the moment. Maybe another week or so before anyone picks up the 'wind of change'.
Lets hope it's a damn good hurricance rather than a gentle breeze!

boiler
21st May 2002, 11:54
The mood over there at GF (with some of the people who have dealt directly with SH&E) seems to be that of dissapointment. SH&E does not seem to have a good grip about the main GF markets or scheduling an airline to begin with. They have their own data and forecasting models which they are refusing to share with GF and conflict with GF's own internal profitability/forecasting models (the ones obtained from Sabre). All the people get is 'Just do it like we told you to' without giving them any reasons as to why. So, mostly, people are hoping that SH&E will eventually hang themselves with all the mistakes they are making.

Icarus
21st May 2002, 12:28
Well if SH&E hang themselves then they will hang us as well.

I laugh at your comments about scheduling and profit forecast models, sorry. GF has no clue about scheduling, it is and always has been a joke! A bad joke at that!
As for p/l models, as you imply, they are built for a market that isn't ours. Being in bed with that particular suppliers products is also one of our main problems too.

SH&E are doing a damn good job, so far, it's now up to everyone to understand that we MUST implement this program of changes to the way we operate in order to survive in the short term and to profit once again in the medium-long term. The sooner people give up what they used to do and think (or just plain ****** off) the better.
I hope Capt Pprune can keep this is the archives for 12-18 months so I can come back and say "I told you so!'. If I can't because we failed, then that will be the fault (predominantly) of those named above (if they are still here) and a few more 'un-cooperatives' and 'ignoramases'.

boiler
21st May 2002, 13:06
If there is anyone ignorant about the schedules and models, it must be you. All you do is blame the schedules and nothing else, while we all know it is much much more than that. If you are such an expert about schedules, why didn't you become a scheduler and solve GF's problems? Instead, why don't you visit the people on the third floor and sit with them for a few minutes so you can get a clear picture as to what they do, the tools they use, and all the sh** they have to deal with everyday. To say that GF's profitability models are not built for this region is crap (I never said or implied that to begin with). The models (which as I understand are used in 20 other airlines around the world) are carefully calibrated to make sure it gives accurate forecats (profits or loss) when compared to MIDT and internal GF data. You obviously know jack Icarus!! It seems to me that your lack of knowledge and closed mind is part of the problem just like all the other people you claim are causing the demise of the airline. As for keeping the topic in the archives, just save or print the webpage smarty.

BahrainLad
21st May 2002, 13:09
I'm going to put my money squarely with Icarus and therefore SH&E. From what I've seen of the plans, their profit forecasts are based on highly conservative figures. Their plans also add up.

In comparison, GF's are based on increasing service quality without spending any money, reconfiguring a/c with more economy seats yet attempting to raise the yield, laying off staff yet improving staff morale, laying of staff yet not having to spend money on compensation - notice a pattern? I'd say if you believe GF's own figures, get into the SH&E-supporting camp quickly!

The question is - will the Air Afrique scenario come into play? In case noone knows, SH&E succeeded in turning round the airline only for the member states (11 of them!) to demand the resumption of their Paris-member state capital services. These services had been canned by SH&E, and lo and behold, the airline went bust. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to GF - for all our sakes.

But, 29th May is the big date.

boiler
21st May 2002, 13:21
But what are the assumptions of SH&E? All of us have 'assumptions', but they are of no use if they are based on unrealistic or faulty data. Where did they get their data from? For example, I was told that SH&E have their own costing formula for implementing a schedule. The problem is that they did not not consult with financing to see if the rates they used are realistic (things like aircraft maintenance and leasing rates, landing rates, navigation charges, etc...). If this is true, then would you still believe in the numbers of SH&E? I would not bet on that. So one has to be careful here. You can make a presentation and put in all the numbers you like, and unfortunately, most people fall for that. But are the numbers based on accurate and trustworthy data based on realistic and achievable assumptions? That is the million dollar question.

kimmeke
21st May 2002, 13:38
As long as they do not hang GF with them it is all right by me...

Anyhow, this is no good. I tought a consultancy agency is supposed to know how to handle the people in the company they work for!

Maybe it is not a bad iidea to put all these external guys through one of our so beloved CRM courses. There they will teach them some basic principles in people managment!

I believe in the Hurricane theory of Icarus.....AT SN we had the same situation during the company's existance. And the little breeze never became a Hurricane......Result: well known I guess!:mad:

GF is 50 years old, full of knowledge and experience, apparently willing people are still working there.....so please, let it live!!!:eek:

Icarus
21st May 2002, 17:44
I openely admit I am not a schedules expert, but I will also state that you do not have to be to see the rubbish produced over the years in GF.
The GF schedule is inadequate and horrendously expensive, terribly inefficient. This is the root cause of the losses incurred by GF. Bad scheduling and the roll on from that! Very little else has contributed in that manner, other than chasing everything in the market and excusing the behaviour by stating that we operate in volatile markets. Bull****! We create the volitility ourselves by chasing every last sales opportunity without any regard to cost of sales and other additional expenses instead of deciding exectly what market we want and sticking with it to maximum exploitation.

As for a certain American companies sofware products, HA! They would sell you their Grandmothers if they had to!
As for the product, I am fully aware of MIDT and APM calibration, I am also aware that there are far better products in the market to. Other than that I do not believe GF has 'capable' personnel to use it properly either. Perhaps you are one of them??

It sounds very much like you (Boilermaker) are one of the people involved in all of this, what's up, SH&E breathing down your neck, exposing you even? Afraid for your job now?

boiler
21st May 2002, 18:52
Icarus,

I do not have to fear for my job because I do not work for GF (I think you are the one who is paranoid, not me). I do admit that I do have a lot of people that I know who work in scheduling and in the forecasting departments and I get daily updates from them. I am also well aquainted with the person who is calibrating APM (as you have correctly stated). If I am not mistaken, he is an American with a Ph.D. in transportation engineering and have met him on several occasions in Paris (where the APM people have regular conferences). So, do you still think that person is incapable' of calibrating and using the tool properly? Get your info straight. Do you really think that 20 world class airlines who have this system are so stupid to keep APM when there are better products in the market? Get real! As for the schedules being expensive, maybe it is because of your overblown salary? As I have mentioned before, yield is MAJOR factor in the problems of GF. Competition from QR, EK, and other airlines has affected GF tremendously. Some airlines in this region have not played by the rules (so to speak) and charge far less than the agreed upon rates that is set by these airlines themselves. What about the times has GF been forced to go to certain destinations because of political pressure (by the CEO or otherwise)? What about the the Omani CEO was able to get away with millions without anyone standing in his way? What about the owner states Oman and Qatar themselves helping WY and QR while stabbing GF in the back? So, look at the bigger picture. Like it or not, there are people in scheduling who know their business and it is pretty sad to see you insult them the way you do when you yourself admitted have no experience in this issue.

As I have told you before, I challenge you to get the full picture from the people who know. Have the courage to go visit the people you hate so much. You might be enlightened.

Icarus
22nd May 2002, 03:51
Overblown salary! I Wish!

Remember the last guy running the yield control dept? Hewas similarly qualified and his models and ideas caused us more trouble than ever.

You need good internal data to run these systems, once you have that they almost run themselves.
GF doesn't have any, never has.

What they do have is so far scattered around the four corners of HDQ it is (almost) impossible to make anything meaningful of it. Little is shared, little is accurate. Hence all the bad decisions.

If you are that close to GF you should know that too, but of course your mates are the ones who can see the wood for the trees anyway, so how could you!
I don't 'hate' anyone as you put, just largely disappointed that so many fools can survive so long. But then that is what happens when your boss knows less than you and you are an 'ace brown-noser' like so many on that particular floor.

boiler
22nd May 2002, 07:18
I still hope that you would go to that floor and talk to some of the people who do know what they are doing. If you are a manager at GF then surely you must hear about who is good and who is not. Am I right? But upper management are also to blame for all this. MXP is a good example. When GF had to make a decision to drop FCO or MXP, the forecasting team recommended to keep FCO. They warned the upper management that if FCO was axed, MXP flights would have a maximum of 35% S.F. So, what happened? A.A. overruled the forecast and kept MXP, and it had indeed an average of 35% S.F. and was eventually dropped. Sad.

As for systems running themselves, there is no system in the world that can do that. Things change on a monthly/weekly basis. Things like revenues, passenger behavior, travel patterns, connections, etc... And systems need someone who can keep up with all these updates.

I do agree that the wrong person in charge of the systems(or one person operating a system while everyone else is ignorant) can cause havoc. That person you talk about was a manager and had tremendous power when it came to making decisions about yields, etc... Am I right? Any ideas what his qualifications were? If my memory serves, he was from Sabre. Sometimes, applying concepts from the U.S. or Europe do not apply to the ME region and hence he fell into trouble. But that is my take on it.

MrBig
22nd May 2002, 08:53
Icarus,

What's the story with the 340 should GF survive the next week or two?

Auto
22nd May 2002, 10:26
BOILERMAKER, thanks for post i agree with you with most of it expect one, the OMANI CEO, he went with millions and they didn't go after him, was he alone? if you live in the gulf area im pretty sure you will understand why they have stop half way, and what about the rest of the CEO's after him,there was an article on HAYAT news paper puplished in London on friday the 16 of may 2002 on GF/WY and QR if you read that you will understand who is the obsticle for Gulf Air to improve and why:rolleyes:

boiler
22nd May 2002, 12:02
Thanks for the coment Auto. You are right about the Omani guy. I forgot the word 'who' in the sentence and it gave the impression he did not get away with it. Sorry.

Icarus
22nd May 2002, 14:50
As far as I am aware, the 340 is not in the fleet equation post 27 October 2002.

Boilermaker - yes, upper management is terrible, I would not shed any tears if the names further up this thread had to go. The gentlemen you refer to has certainly biten off far more than he can chew or was ever capable of chewing in the first place, that has to be rectified immediately!

As for SH&E, I firmly believe they have the majority of things right, they are very much prepared to listen and make changes if necessary solong as the ultimate goal(s) remain in sight.
The new boss is working hard with them, and if it's going to work, then everyone else has to too.

It's time to 'put up' or 'ship out'.

boiler
22nd May 2002, 16:37
Auto, would you happen to have the link to that article (or maybe you can post it here)? Thanks.

Icarus, I do agree with you about AA and the others at the top. Do you think bringing them in caused AlHamer to be let go so soon? Too bad they are not departing with him (for now).

Icarus
22nd May 2002, 17:23
I believe AA let EaH down badly and that everyone AA brought in let him (AA) down also.
Trouble is of course no-one is 'man' enough to admit it and take the necessary corrective action; otherwise they would be admiting their own errors of judgment etc. which of course simply does not happen here. Shame really. And of course EaH also let himself down badly, he did not exactly practice what he preached.
Another moment in time I am sure he would have survived, but right now GF needs people at the top who can make good sensible business decisions and leave family and freinds out of it. We still do not have that today, the question is 'Will we have that tomorrow?'; if we do not, then I am quite sure there will be a new thread on this site by this time next year entitled -

GF: Remember them?!

PS - Nice we have finally agreed on something!

Oh the nice young coloured chap a few paragraphs up: Sabre and BD predominantly, highly qualified, incredibly stupid. He got away with it for so long for the reason above, his direct report would not admit his error of judgement and let it carry on, to the tune of over BD0.5M per annum in DBC!! and probably 10 times that in loss of faith from customers!

It really is that hard for these people to swallow such a bitter pill!

BahrainLad
22nd May 2002, 17:59
Common consensus is that EaH/AA/NW/HAM should never have been let anywhere near the running of a successful airline - never mind one that needed drastic surgery. They needed a King/Marshall combo, but didn't get it.

AA was brought in coz he was EaH's buddy from way back - nothing to do with his experience at BA - NW ditto - HAM ditto. EaH carried on flying when GF needed a strong man at the helm. The most challenging environment all had ever been in was the Civil Aviation Authority headquarters.

The depths the airline have sunk to are incredible. When travelling GF F on BAH-LHR about 6 years ago I witnessed the CEO who was a fighter pilot (can't remember name) basically saying to the two F hosties - be in my hotel room in 2 hours or you lose your jobs. EaH was continually allowed to carry on flying even when the Omani CAA had suspicions about him. What about the Lufthansa safety audit - unsecured cargo etc. The airline needs a swift kick up the backside. They need to clear the dead wood and replace them with expats who know what their doing so they can teach the Bahrainis.

Icarus
22nd May 2002, 18:10
BL - Bit strong that!

Try to leave NW out of it, nice chap he is! In the wrong position but someone who can make a positive contribution if fielded correctly!
As for the others, totally agree. Only there for the comfort of their friends and doing precious little else.

Also, to be honest, there are a lot of Bahrainis in GF who work damn hard and are very good at their work. They need to be noticed so that they can be invested in for the future. I'm lucky, I have a handful working for me.
There are an equal amount who are aggressive, selfish and power-crazy, but please don't tar them all with the same brush. Not fair to them and unbecoming of you, I am sure you are a far more decent fellow than that.

boiler
22nd May 2002, 18:44
Icarus, I commend you for what you said about the Bahrainies who work hard and deserve to be invested in. In my humble opinion, bringing in expats does not always mean things will get better. I hear GF is bringing a lot of expats in these days and paying them salaries through the roof (so much for cost cutting measures such as early retirement), while some of the locals who are paid next to nothing, work their a** off and deserve a shot at a promotion are being left out (mind you, I am not sure or familiar about the exact number of such people). I find that sad. I am all for bringing in an expat if there is no fully qualified local within the company who can truly take up a certain position.

BahrainLad
22nd May 2002, 18:47
Oh, absolutely, I would never knock anyone who makes an effort.

Unfortunately, you can put in all the effort you can but if you're not qualified (and with the experience to boot) I'm afraid you're not going to get anywhere. All the people mentioned are nice guys, but they should never have been put in the positions they are in. At the end of the day, if it all goes tits up, they'll take a wrap that they don't deserve.

With regards to the Bahraini's, sorry I wasn't clearer (been doing time-zone hopping as SLF a lot in the last 72 hrs). When I was referring to the dead wood I meant those (expat and Bahraini) who won't move with the times.

With reference to expats teaching Bahrainis, what I meant was I'd like to see a training based approach where young and promising Bahrainis are taken under the wings of qualified expat management and prepared to eventually take over the helm. Isn't this sort of apprentice scheme what Sayer is doing over in BAS?

The ab initio pilot scheme shows what happens when locals are appointed who aren't qualified - giving Command so readily to cut costs (as GF management at the time believed that local 'labour' was in some way cheaper than 'expat' labour) didn't work. But don't get me wrong - promote people if they are qualified, as boilermaker suggests.

BTW, anyone know what's happened to EaH since he's gone west?

kimmeke
24th May 2002, 07:39
I just hope the guys from SH&E are reading these forums as well. Maybe it will give them some ideas.....;)

boiler
24th May 2002, 10:39
This forum has been pretty quiet the past few days. Sort of like the night before X-mas. Hopefully, GF will get the present it needs to keep on going.

oneilas
25th May 2002, 07:11
:cool: :mad:

AMONGST ALL THIS THERE HAS BEEN A REVELATION TO SOME HAPPENINGS IN GF BY SOME VERY SENIOR PILOT IN A FORM OF 2 PAGE LETTER TO PILOTS MAIL BOXES DETAILING-

CURRENT AVPO'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE GF 072 CRASHHIS RIFT WITH THE PAST SENIOR MANAGER FLIGHT TRAINING

HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PAST PCE AND DGCAM OMAN AND ITS MAERICAN JEW

PRESENT HEAD OF FLIGHT OPERATIONS GRROOMING OF BECOMING VPO

THE OLD CLUB AND THE SENIOR EX BOSSES TO GET INTO MANAGEMENT AGAIN

DIRECTOR GENERAL DGCAM OMAN AND HIS BLACK MAGIC ANDSCAMS INVOVLVING CASH FROM GF SWINDLED YEARS AGO

GF 072 REPORT THOUGHT TO BE CHANGED TO SUIT CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS JOBS



And there is to be a further update or relese to this one,promised by the writer,

SO WE SHALL WAIT FOR THAT AND SEE WHAT COMES OUT OF IT.

MrBig
25th May 2002, 09:16
oneilas,

Wow. Seems you would like all local management, past and present, arrested and replaced with professional none partisan expats?.....with certain exceptions!!!!

kimmeke
25th May 2002, 10:57
oneilas,


maybe it would be possible for you to be a little more specific about that letter and its content?

Maybe you can post it on this forum?

12 pilots received a message last week that they where accepted as F/O A320 to commence training in July.....so every piece of information is crucial to them!(yes, i am one of them!!)

Thank you......

oneilas
25th May 2002, 11:42
kimmekke,
i am myself only one year old hear and was just inquisitive of the contents of the letter.
As for being specific,i am sorry but cannot release that as it is very serious in content and seems in some ways personal.
Also PPRUNE does not allow such material to be posted,I think.
As for your A320 jobs,there's no problems about that unless the company folds up in the next few months.

MR BIG,
I do not have any intentions of having anyone arrested due I dont know too many of these individuals to support the accusations,so you seem to be more in the position to ratify whether the letter of incrimination is to a certain extent,correct.
But I suppose you cant do that,its not in your nature,or shall I say in the Gulf peoples ways.
Many a times I have been told that extreme things have happened,but theres no accountabilty in the Gulf,or Gulf Air or Bahrain.
A crime would be committed and investigated but not prosecuted.
Isnt that the Gulf Way???????

sirwa69
26th May 2002, 09:52
GF 072 REPORT THOUGHT TO BE CHANGED TO SUIT CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS JOBS

This would not surprise me, however I wonder how they square this with the King who stated that the accident would be reported honestly and that there would be no hiding anything.

And just when is it due. Even Shk Ali thought that it was coming out about 2 months ago. :confused: :confused:

CedarBus
27th May 2002, 22:25
Is anybody aware of GF pilots going on a "Work to Rule" or "go slow" action due to some kind of frustration with management?
Last week a GF B767-300ER en route BEY-AUH was crusing at a very strange speed of Mach 0.7!!!! The pilots took all their time in BEY during push back even ordering the push back crew to come back and push the plane further as the pilots were not satisfied with the position of the plane. When questioned by ATC about their very low cruising speed they answered that they were maintaining Long Range Cruise speed because FL410 was occupied!?!?:p

strobes_on
28th May 2002, 03:49
Flight International is saying that the big meeting for the 4 "owner" states to vote on the USD 272 million cash injection is tomorrow (29 th).

GF would have to be in extremely serious strife if there is not a positive resolution.

Any advance ideas on the result ? :(

A767
28th May 2002, 16:41
For Your info, all countries agreed to pay their share. Tomorrow's meeting will make it oficial.
The game starts again...
;)

MTQatar
28th May 2002, 17:20
Well A767, that is good news. I just hope that they don't burn through this cash injection.

A767 did you get this info from a reliable source becuase many newspapers such as Al Hayat said that Qatar will not be paying up.

Regards,
MTQ

hostie
28th May 2002, 19:46
Having left Gulf Air in 95 and now find myself employed by BA I don't hold up much hope of the Gulf Aviation idea, it's a real shame though, as then there were people who could actually run an airline, anyone know where they are now?
They're definitely not in GF or BA ;)

oneilas
29th May 2002, 18:19
That B767 from Beirut is exactly right about the slow speed cruise due to non availabilty of higher level,especially when GF despatch plan you at F410 and you are stuck at F250,270 290,and thats it.
One such Skipper had taken CFP fuel to the kilo and got himself in the s*** due he diverted to Amman on the Beirut-Bahrain sector and made a tech stop.
Always good to take some for mum and the kids on some of those well known areas like Saudi airpace etc.
Neverthe less GF has a SOP on Cruise at a minimum of max range cruise or engine out speed,so its normal for those guys to be conservative.

mafibacon
30th May 2002, 04:10
Gulf Daily News reports Qatar have pulled out of GF.

boiler
30th May 2002, 04:26
Qatar has indeed decided to pull out. The rest of the owner states will pump in $80 million (far short of the $270 million requested). There will be another board meeting to discuss the future of GF in August.

sirwa69
30th May 2002, 04:47
Some people up early?

Just trying to put in the link to the GDN web site but the web site is a load of jelly babys today :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yes looks like no more commercial secrets going to Doha
However $80 million is not enough to get them out of the hole. :confused:

strobes_on
30th May 2002, 05:29
Sounds like death by a thousand cuts.

Qatar will no doubt be delighted to further antagonise Bahrain with this action.

Qatar Airways must be poised for some huge expansion and rubbing their hands together.

Interesting to see how long Oman stays in the picture ?

boiler
30th May 2002, 06:01
Here is the article in GDN:
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Articles.asp?Article=24259&Sn=BNEW


Qatar pulls out as Gulf Air's partner


ABU DHABI

Qatar has pulled out of Gulf Air, while the three remaining partners - Bahrain, Oman and Abu Dhabi - will immediately inject around $80 million (BD30.2m) into the cash-strapped company, the airline's chairman announced last night.

"Qatar has withdrawn from Gulf Air as a partner, but the three other partners will continue to support the airline," Shaikh Hamdan bin Mubarak Al Nahyan said after a board meeting in Abu Dhabi.

"The three (remaining) partners have decided to support Gulf Air by contributing BD30m immediately, in equal shares," he said. "Different options are being studied to restructure the airline and make it profitable. We are confident it will become a profitable airline."

The three governments will consider compensating Qatar for its 25 per cent stake "in view of the company's general situation," Qatari Oil Minister Abdulla bin Hamad Al Attiyah said after the meeting.

A Bahraini official said earlier this month that Qatar and Oman, equal partners in Gulf Air with the governments of Abu Dhabi and Bahrain, had refused to pump up more capital to bail out the airline.

The refusal followed Gulf Air's request of the four owners during an emergency meeting in Abu Dhabi on April 22 to increase its capital by $272.5m in a bid to overcome a crisis worsened by the September 11 . This was followed by reports that Oman and Qatar would reconsider their stances and bail out the airline.

"It is sad Qatar is leaving, but I thank them and respect their decision," Gulf Air's chairman said. "The legal and other implications of Qatar's pullout are being studied." He said a newly-appointed chief executive, Australian James Hogan, would draw up a plan within three months to pull the airline out of trouble.

Hogan, previously chief executive of Ansett Airlines in Australia and BMI British Midlands Airways, will present the plan at another meeting of directors in August, he said. New routes will be added and others closed, Shaikh Hamdan said, adding he was confident of a turnaround in the carrier's fortunes after it is restructured.

The four owners had already injected $160m into Gulf Air in May 2001. The airline's capital currently stands at $344m. Oman and Qatar stressed "the need to apply the restructure plan to Gulf Air" drawn up by US aviation consultants Simet Hellielson and Eicher, an aviation source said.

gulf_slf
30th May 2002, 06:04
Qatar pulls out of Gulf Air
Abu Dhabi |By Stanley Carvalho | 30-05-2002
Print friendly format | Email to Friend



Sheikh Hamdan bin Mubarak Al Nahyan (second from right), Abdullah bin Hamad Al Atiyyah (right), Sheikh Malik bin Sulaiman Al Maamary (left) and Sheikh Ali bin Khalifa Al Khalifa at the board meeting of Gulf Air in Abu Dhabi yesterday. © Gulf News

Qatar, one of the strategic equity shareholders of Gulf Air, has pulled out, adding further to the woes of the losing airline but Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Oman have affirmed their commitments and will inject 30 million Bahraini dinars immediately to help the airline tide over the crisis.

The legal implications of Qatar's withdrawal will be studied in detail as Qatar refused to inject the required cash for Gulf Air, top officials said, adding that the three remaining partners will now hold equal equity in the airline.

Gulf Air has an authorised capital of 135 million dinars. "Qatar has withdrawn from Gulf Air but the three others will continue to support the airline and have committed to inject 30 million dinars equally to keep the airline going," said Sheikh Hamdan bin Mubarak Al Nahyan, Chairman of Gulf Air, after a five-hour meeting of the board in the capital yesterday.

However, the chairman expressed optimism that the airline will come out of the red with a new restructuring plan to be presented by the newly appointed chief executive by the end of August.

"The study undertaken for restructuring the airline will include different options to increase the profitability of the airline such as adding new routes, closing some unprofitable routes," he said.

The total debt of Gulf Air currently stand at around $800 million, said Sheikh Hamdan. "All airlines have debts," he responded when asked why the airline's debts were so high.

About Qatar refusing to inject the much-needed cash for the airline and pulling out as an equity partner, the chairman said, "the complete legal implications on the withdrawal will be studied within three months."

Similarly, a decision will be taken in three months about further contribution by the three other partners to provide a safety net for the airline.

Gulf Air has performed "better" in the first quarter of 2002 and "we are confident this year will be a good year," he said, adding that while it is sad that Qatar has pulled out, the other partners respect its decision.

Gulf Air has a fleet of 30 aircraft currently. "There are no plans to acquire more aircraft for the time being," said a senior official of the airline. The airline suffered a net loss of around 40 million dinars for year 2001, compared to 37 million dinars in 2000.

Upto now, Gulf Air was owned equally by the governments of Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Oman and Qatar with the latter two having their own airlines.

**************************************************

Paint the a/c Navy blue and white, bring in BA Holdings as a partner and call call it 'Gulf Aviation'!!!

·
:) :) :)

Hogwash
30th May 2002, 08:04
Well this is good news! I am chuffed that the Qataries are pulling out . Hopefuly soon there will be no more visits to Doha for the sim! :) I suggest to GF that if they do not want to have the sims at the main base that they put them somewhere sensible like Phuket, las Vegas, Acapulco or Mombasa!!:) :)

kimmeke
30th May 2002, 08:13
do not forget TOULOUSE!!!!!:) :)

ironbutt57
30th May 2002, 18:41
Cebu .....good place for a sim...or any other "machine with 6-axis motion" that won't follow you around for a week after you ride it for 4 hours :) ;) ;) ;)

A300Man
30th May 2002, 18:51
Qatar clearly have big, big plans for their own carrier, and the funding formerly for Gulf Air will be simply re-assigned to Qatar Airways.

Anyone taking bets on the probability that Qatar Airways finds itself in exactly the same position soon as GF is today............?

boiler
30th May 2002, 20:51
That is an interesting question. QR seem to be expanding very rapidly, maybe too rapidly? They will be starting services to Milan (which GF dropped a few weeks ago due to poor results), Frankfurt, and other destinations. If they are going to be fully supported by the government, who cares if they are making profit or not.

A300Man
30th May 2002, 21:25
True. Maybe Qatar will start charging all ex-pats income tax soon to pay for the rapid expansion of Qatar Airways and other considerable spend in the peninsula at present.

By the way, Qatar's new A330's (first of 3) are now on line plying the Doha - Heathrow route, as well as Doha - Abu Dhabi and Doha - Dubai.

Nice machines inside and a few innovative cabin features which some of the big boys would benefit from having. Seems that Gulf Air have missed out on some of these niceties which - after all - attracts the self loading freight.

Despite the arrival of the A330 and the two recent new A320's, QR are still making full use of their 7 A300-600's, including their ex A7-ABP, which was re-painted for return to CityBird last October, arrived in Brussels on the day that CityBird folded, and was painted white and currently flies for Qatar as A7-AFA in this hybrid scheme.

The first class seat pitch on this aircraft is a staggering 150"!!!!! Perhaps Gulf Air could lease this excess cabin space from QR and start floor sharing, as well as code sharing.

strobes_on
31st May 2002, 03:04
I bet Qatar is not quite so keen to come up with their share of Gulf Air's total debt as they were to leave the company.

This could create some knife edge insolvency issues for the carrier.

At what point do the others draw the line and call in the receivers?

Short of a huge cash injection, it would seem that GF now does not have the critical mass necessary to keep going in its current form.

SwordFish-GF
31st May 2002, 08:09
What else do we want, first we get rid of the joke of a PCE Hammer (all I care about is building hours so my mate Ali Abubaker can type me on the A330) along with all his mob who were put there only to say yes to the man and ensure he passes his base checks and then Qatar pulls out. How lucky can we get.

Actually in Hammers case it was not luck at all, his incompetence and vendictiveness combined with Ali's did it for him. Your time is over my dear boys, enough bullying, manipulating and deceiving, you have been uncovered and you have been sent home for good. Now sit back and fly your armchair, at least that way you will no longer disrupt the roster. Let the professionals do the job of flying because you know bu@@er all about it.

Oh by the way the "Short Devil" is you fleet manager again Ali so be carefull out there dear boy.:D

SwordFish-GF
31st May 2002, 08:57
While on the subject can someone tell me why these people (Hammer, Abu Baker and gang) are still trying to cause damage to the work our new professional PCE is doing? Could it be your last resort?

Lets state a few facts

Fact is that Hammer from his position of undersecretary of civil aviation became a Captain with GF within 3 years of starting flying, now if that is not abuse of power I don't know what is. This was obviously achieved with the help of his mate Abu Baker who bent every rule in the book.

Fact is that the DGCAM inspector who clearly identified a safety issue in Hammer flying the line with always the same junior F/O instructed Hammer to fly with TRE's only. Hammer not only totally disregarded this instruction and continued flying with the same F/O but did his utmost to get the DGCAM inspector fired. Going to extrems such as raiding the DGCAM inspectors office at night and stealing his personal files from his computer and e-mails.

Fact is when the Chief Pilot 767 resigned stating his reasons in a letter which was very damaging to Hammer, Abu Baker and gang they bullied him into withdrawing the letter or facing termination of his contract. They even went to the extent of calling his home anonymously and threatening his family.

This was the state of the Hammer regime.

Your desperate attempts to still damage this Airline and it's dedicated people will get you nowhere, it will just go to prove how right our Government was in it's decision to remove you. Face it you have only yourself to blame for becoming the laughing stock "Captain" of the community, that will not change however many tearfull "they took my toy away before I could play with it" letters you write to the GDN.

Airbusser
31st May 2002, 12:39
Goody goody!!!!!!

SwordFish-GF
31st May 2002, 12:43
Anyone care to call me a liar????
Because I have a lot more where that came from

boiler
31st May 2002, 13:55
Encore Encore!! More stories please on him and any of the other goons that he hired as well.

Airbusser
31st May 2002, 15:21
Swordfish-GF,


please do make more posting like that!

I think we all are very keen to know whats going on gefore and behind the screens at GF!

You would not happen to know anything about the DLR testing would you?

Greetz,

Hogwash
31st May 2002, 19:40
SwordFish-GF I don't think that you are correct in saying that the Chief Pilot has resigned. I heard that it was the fleet trainning manager. Is that right?

GULFPILOT76
31st May 2002, 22:05
Hogwash,

Yes you're right, it was the mgr. training 76 and I just heard today
from one of his closest friends that his family was anonimously
threatened by phone. I can hardly believe this sh#t, what kind of
uncivilised bas##rd would do this. He was (is) a good man and
hardworking expat (YES) manager. I think people who know him would agree with me. May be it's a good idea if people who do
know him give him a call for support.

strobes_on
31st May 2002, 23:57
gulfpilot76,

If it is the same person I am thinking of, this is very serious. Irrespective of his views of 1989, his proven work ethic and the professional way in which he has managed the job is beyond doubt.

GF should be begging him to stay. It is totally unacceptable if he and others are receiving phone threats.

I know it's easy to say it in this anonymous forum, but have you guys thought of approaching James Hogan directly. He should be made aware of what is happening.

If there is ANY hope for GF, this sort of behaviour (which has been going on for years) has to change.

Good luck.

DESERTLAD
1st Jun 2002, 07:33
Here is an article from Khallej Times
www.khaleejtimes.co.ae/lead.htm

Gulf Air set to survive crisis

MANAMA - Bahrain-based Gulf Air is likely to overcome its current financial troubles despite the pullout of major shareholder Qatar, which was announced this week, but it must act to restore its reputation as a strong regional airline, bankers and officials said.


They said Gulf Air's board of directors on Wednesday gave management until August to submit a rescue plan if much-needed additional cash is to be pumped into the company to help it compete with other airlines in the region.

"We are optimistic about the future of Gulf Air... No doubt the money which will be injected into the company will achieve a primary leap," Bahrain's Information Minister, Nabeel Yacoub Al Hamer, said on Thursday.

"The company and its new chief executive will draw up a new study aimed at increasing efficiency and shifting the company to profitability. There is seriousness among the three owners to support Gulf Air," Hamer told Reuters.

A Gulf Air official said new Chief Executive James Hogan, former head of defunct Australian carrier Ansett, would now submit a strategic plan to the board by August.

Gulf Air's board would then meet again in late August or early September to evaluate the restructuring plan and to decide on the remaining cash injection.

"The coming phase is crucial and needs the concerted efforts of all staff at different levels. Gulf Air will pursue the process of restructuring its organisation and move ahead rapidly with the changes," said Hogan, who was appointed earlier this month.

The owners - Bahrain, Oman and the Abu Dhabi emirate in the United Arab Emirates - agreed in Abu Dhabi on Wednesday to inject DH300 million ($82 million) into the 50-year-old troubled airline, which has a total debt of around $800 million.

The proposed injection is less than a third of the $272 million that owner states were considering to rescue the firm.

But Gulf Air Chairman Shaikh Hamdan bin Mubarak Al Nahayan said the three owners might make a fresh injection of another Dh700 million once they have seen the restructuring plan.

"The new cash will definitely help Gulf Air in the short term, but the company must act because it is overstaffed, its costs are out of control, has too many (unprofitable) routes and bought many new planes in the past few years," Bahraini analyst Jassim Ali told Reuters.

Gulf Air said last year it would cut up to 450 jobs to trim costs and reduce its fleet to 26 from 30 aircraft in 2002. - Reuters

boiler
1st Jun 2002, 10:32
If Bahraini analyst Jassim Ali understands anything about airlines, he would know that just because a route is unprofitable does not mean that the route should be closed. A losing route (due to pro-rating revenue) could be causing other routes to be profitable. Already GF has closed SYD,MEL, ATH, FCO, and MXP. That is over 10% of its destinations. If GF keeps on closing routes, what will be left?

GULFPILOT76
1st Jun 2002, 13:09
:confused: boilermaker,

I'm not sure what your game is anyway, but to me it seems a bit suspicious by now, the way you are trying to protect scheduling and a socalled 3rd floor. You don't even work for GF. Whether or not a route is loosing money to feed other routes is not the point,
unless you have to work with 4 (now 3) states that DEMAND certain routes to be flown. This is called politics and destroys profitability, just look in the former USSR. The main objective of a commercial airline is to aim for profits on ALL routes and let go of the ones that are definitely loosing. Like for instance FCO, I've never flown with more then 40 pax and some cargo, and I never heard different from my collegues. Another problem with this route was the stop in between. Passengers hate that, O.K. cargo
doesn't care, but still. We still have a long long way to go before
anything will really change, and that to my humble opinion has to do with the local culture. The gulf states still base their way of doing business on a give and take attitude. That was allright up to let's say 1950. But......, things have changed since then. This is the 21 century and the airline business is global so if you want to play ball with the real world you'd better sign in now and obey the big world rules or....... 3 states keep on paying untill kingdom
come. Well the kingdom just came, so who knows???

boiler
1st Jun 2002, 13:37
GULFPILOT76,

I have no game whatsoever. If you read economic journals like I do, you will know that what I said was true. A certain route might be losing but still generate much more revenue for the other routes in the network. This is called Flow up/ Flow down revenue. You cannot immediately shut a route down if it is losing money unless it is not contributing anything to the network as a whole. Also, if you read any of my past posts, you will see that I have said time and time again that a lot of the routes were flown because of political pressure from the owner states (Such as GVA, FJR, RKT, etc...) and this was one of the problems at GF. So, I may not work for GF, but I am well informed and educated about things. I was just merely stating a fact and not defending anyone. All I am saying is that an airline business is much more complicated than a general statement by someone who was never in an airline business who says 'shut down a losing route'. That's all. So what exactly is your problem? I suggest you read my posts so you can get a general idea of the problems GF is having which is not just limited to scheduling.

Shark-GF
1st Jun 2002, 14:53
Beware because more will be posted if the goons go on with the dirty games

foxtrot
1st Jun 2002, 17:49
all you guys out there hye
Qatar offcially withdraws from Gulf Air as of 31st May.
bye

boiler
1st Jun 2002, 18:48
I don't want to sound sarcastic, but where have you been in the last few days? Qatar officially withdrew last Wednesday.:p

GULFPILOT76
1st Jun 2002, 18:50
boilermaker,

Am I wrong in reading a bit of arrogance and hot air in your reply?
"I read economic journals" well....HURRAY for you!!
Anyway, now that you have maybe climbed down the ladder to earth, were I think (unless I'm fully mistaken) you belong, let's try to get into some practice.
First of all I agree that the total route structure is of a high value to the overall return of a company, but there is a lot more to it.
For instance the personals motivation to please the customer, now this is pure practice and you will find little of this in airline economic journals. Were does the chain start; just try to make a reservation with GF by calling to,... you name it, main office, airport, ANYWHERE. You are lucky if anybody answers the phone.
It happened to me several times. Then..if you find someone answering they are usually rude and don't know the answers to simple questions. And this is only were it starts. Then you get the people at the check-in, same s##t. Followed by the gate people
and then finally if you are really unlucky the cabin crew, although I must say they have improved since I started. Staff motivation is of a very high value to any company and this has to be dealt with
asap. A company that is on the brink of collapse every other half year is not a good motivator. If this happens in the real world it's over and done with. As I have experienced many times over the years. It's like an autoland, everything has to be right to get the
best result, all the pieces of the puzzle have to fit in. Economics in books is nice but does not give all the answers. I remember in my old company the PCE was changed because of financial problems and he put his hand on the wallet and at the same time tried to make the crews work to the maximum of FTL, then slowly small things were taken away from us in a very camouflaged way, hardly noticeable. After some time sickness went up, people left and the remaining staff was about to have a nervous breakdown,
end result was revolution and more losses due to staff moral.
Were GF is at this moment and time, it may be the start of something good or it is the start of bare economics and squeezing practices in order to get financial result on paper as soon as possible to please the customer. I truly hope for the first option. Economics or not.

Icarus
1st Jun 2002, 19:29
Actually, I believe Qatar is still a shareholder until an appropriate ‘exit strategy’ is decided upon. They may well have chosen to discontinue their support of GF financially but their responsibilities as a shareholder still remain until such time as a negotiated settlement and amicable departure is agreed.

Interesting meeting last Thursday with the Chief.

By all accounts GF can have a future and the remaining states have made it clear that they wish GF to continue and to get better and will (conditionally) support the business.
Not quite what was expected at the board meeting and SH&E seem to have had the wind taken out of their sails a bit. Well, pick yourselves up boys and girls, it’s not over until the fat lady sings and you’ll have been paid by then anyway; just make sure she does sing and loudly! Get back on track and quickly!

I understand that the most senior management has until August to at least come up with the goods on paper.
Those same people will become more accountable for their (individual/departmental?) performance and if they have not performed, may well be ‘out’.
Hmm, somehow I cannot see that happening quite as well as most people might like unfortunately.

PCE is (heavily) rumoured to be tough, but I think the likes of one or two up there are far too slippery to get caught out; most likely they will shine the torch of blame on those directly underneath, despite the fact that they did not allow their heads/managers to manage and they dictated to them who gets a job (cousin, bothers best mate etc) despite the fact that the head/manager clearly knew it was inappropriate and damaging for the company. (This is happening already!). Mr Hogan, I say, “pay them off and get rid of them, we surely cannot work happily ever after with people like this around”. I do not believe you can give them enough rope! Nor is it the right time to play that game.

Hogan is a determined ‘winner’ and I trust he will do all that he can and that it will be enough to “Turn the ship around” (his words not mine). Oh and by the way, on the off chance that you read this, please look at my earlier posts, you have to seriously stop using that horrible phrase “Move forward”, it’s just so corny and insincere these days.

Overall, more good than bad was conveyed so that’s a start. It’s in his hands (and ours as employees) to get to work to now. I suspect the first indication of redeployments and ‘redundancies’ will be this coming week (heads/senior managers down) with perhaps a ‘cabinet re-shuffle’ in late August. Lets hope he can spot our “Peter Mandleson(s)” by that time!

boiler
2nd Jun 2002, 07:50
J.H.C. GULFPILOT76, are you on steroids or something? Calm down and come back to earth. All I did was state a fact that you can't just close down a route because it is losing money, and since I made that statement, you went off the wall, so I had to resort to something to show you that I know what I am talking about (ok, so I did not mention that I previously did have some working experience in the airlines as well). Maybe I should have said that instead. Keep your cool. Part of GF's problems are economic, and some are not. I cannot dissagree most of what you have said. So PLEASE do not take what I say out of context and calm down.

boiler
2nd Jun 2002, 18:05
Does anyone have any updated info on whose schedule (SH&E or GF) will be flown in the Winter and whether or not the A340's have been leased out or not? The date for filing the schedules must be very near and if GF is going to get new planes, I think the decision on that should be finalized.
Thanks

CaptA320
3rd Jun 2002, 05:44
Chill guys summer is here and it seems you both need a cold shower. Nobody seems to have any news with the A340 looks like they are still negotiating the lease. As we saw in the papers they were given a 3 month period to come up with a plan so I figure that route planning my play a part in this. What's the big deal anyway, figure we may just be doing a few less Dohas thats about the size of it. I'm more interested to see in if we will still have a job after the 3 months than where we'll be going, to be honest.

411A
3rd Jun 2002, 06:40
Since JR left (L10, gosh you guys "must remember"?), it has all been... down hill.
Prove i'm wrong.:eek: :eek:

GULFPILOT76
3rd Jun 2002, 14:09
Sure hope SH&E is not producing any 'pilot eating consultants' because THAT'S exactly my 'bad dream' as well as 'deja vu' scenario. Anyway, if history repeats it may be time to move.
I can already hear them say, " My god these pilots don't work at
all, we can make this much more efficient and cost saving." Without any clue of what we actually do. Please someone wake me up and tell me it's not true,.......or is it?

Just heard from someone in security that lately several people have had threatening phone calls, and they are taken very serious. It looks like an investigation will take place into these matters as well as the famous anonymous letter that is circulating in the office

MrBig
5th Jun 2002, 14:16
Any news on the A340's yet???

Airbusser
6th Jun 2002, 18:26
Hi guys,

whats the latest news from Bahrain? I waiting here but i am getting inpationate......:)

Count von Altibar
6th Jun 2002, 22:50
Are things on hold indefinitely? Has anyone been interviewed for the recently advertised pilot positions?

newswatcher
10th Jun 2002, 10:59
From the Khaleej Times(10/6):

"Gulf Air will reduce its staff strength and introduce several changes as part of the airline's new strategic restructuring programme, designed to make the financially-troubled airline a profitable venture in three years for the three owing AGCC states.

This was stated yesterday by the airline's Acting President and Chief Executive, James Hogan, at a Press conference. He also said that the BD30 million pledged by the three owning states - Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Oman - is sufficient for the present requirement. "We would seek more funds and this issue would be discussed at a meeting in September, so that we can go ahead with the complete rebuilding programme," he added.

Commenting on Qatar's recent withdrawal as partner, he said: "In six month's time we will know if Qatar will make its final decision of withdrawal." When asked by Khaleej Times what if Oman also pulls out in favour of its own existing national carrier, Oman Air, he said that the present owning-states, which includes Oman, have all given their full support and it is unlikely that Oman will take such a step.

"We know that the task of making the airline a profitable one is difficult," he said. "we are confident that we will succeed in making Gulf Air a profit-making international airline, he added. He declined to comment on the percentage of retrenchment of staff, and said that the "process has already begun and performance and productivity of each staff member is being evaluated."

"We will focus more on voluntary retirement rather than terminating services," he said. The airline's restructuring programme, which covers all the areas of operation, is aimed at 'winning the battle to rebuild Gulf Air.' The work has already begun, he said. "The next few months are very important for Gulf Air, and our key priorities will be to restore confidence in the market and recover lost business opportunities," he said.

The coming phase is crucial and needs the concerted efforts of all staff so that Gulf Air can pursue the process of restructuring, he added. The renewed commitment to put the airline back on track includes the creation of an "executive grade programme" to train our future leaders and a number of senior international airline executives will join to provide specialist support. Hence, the company will also have to reduce staff and focus on cost, he said, adding that the strategic changes will cover in various areas.

"As part of the programme, we have created a new service division, led by Luke Medley, formerly chief executive officer of Avis in the UK and Australia and also former Ansett executive, he said. Hogan also mentioned that the division will focus on improving cost and efficiencies related to airport, catering and services delivery. The network division, headed by Farid Alawi, was established to ensure that the organisation optimises schedules, utilisation of aircraft, yield management and route profitability. He will be supported by a team of international airline executives, Hogan said. Adel Ali, Vice-President, sales and marketing of Gulf Air, announced the airline's Great Summer Escapes promotion, underlining that "Gulf Air wanted to treat its loyal customers to some exciting breaks, ensuring that this promotion also demonstrates our commitment to remain competitive in the market."

GULFPILOT76
11th Jun 2002, 16:10
Just heard the Iran A340 deal is probably off.
The 'in between' man wants too much under the table.

Icarus
11th Jun 2002, 18:03
Beginning to think I was too optimistic in my earlier beliefs and as reflected in previous posts.

Three organisational matters have been made 'public' over the last two-three weeks and a further one today. Sales & Marketing. Looks like yet another house of cards!

I always thought there were only supposed to be two jokers in a pack, how come Gulf Air's have so many!!

boiler
11th Jun 2002, 21:09
So do I take it that AA and A-HM are still with GF? Do you think that GF will really be able to cut costs by laying off people (they keep on stressing this point) if at the same time they keep on hiring outsiders with a monthly salary of 20-30 times that of the workers who they just let go? I sure hope that the extra revenues generated by them show sooner rather then later.

ex330
16th Jun 2002, 01:13
Dear Kimmeke,

You mentioned a while back that you were one of 12 hired. Have you received a start date???. Has the GF sent anything in the mail confiraming employment and start dates. Would appreciate any info from you or anyone else in the same position. cheers.

Airbusser
16th Jun 2002, 11:56
Hi ExA330,


Me too I have been succesfull at the GF interviews.

All I know is that I am sheduled to start training beginning of july. At this moment I have not received anything official part from the example contract and agreement given to us in London.

Apparently the problem now is that they have to decide when/if we have to take the DLR testing.
More news should be following beginning of next week.

For more details you can always contact me by email!

Greetz,

strobes_on
16th Jun 2002, 23:49
Airbusser

What is "DLR Testing" ?

strobes.

Airbusser
17th Jun 2002, 07:55
Its a rather difficult kind of Psycho technical test being done by Lufthansa in Hamburg. Gulf Air uses these tests to screen their new pilots or to screen "soon to be " captains before their upgrades.

Word goes that if you ever fail these tests your name appears on some kind of list and every airline in the world has access to it.....

I do not know, most possibly this is some kind of rumour spread be angry/frustrated pilots who failed the thing!

It most probably is difficult but so what....I "d rather be flying for a company wth well screened crews than the other way around.

Greetz

Airbusser
19th Jun 2002, 15:02
Bad news Guys.....


Just received the message that GF halts all its recruitment for the time being!

There will be lesser flights during the wintershedule, thats the reason!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

ex330
19th Jun 2002, 15:07
Dear airbusser,

i received the same news today. It seems that notuhing will be done untill the new business plan comes out in August. I was really looking forward to going.
ex330

Airbusser
19th Jun 2002, 15:20
Pretty damn annoying if you ask me!

Lets hope that in september they give us some better news!

Altough I totally disapprove of their way of working!!We where on the hold for what....4 weeks! I missed out on 2 jobs because of that!

Well, patience seems to be the answer these days!

Good luck y'all and I hope to meet you sometime ExA330!!

:mad:

boiler
26th Jun 2002, 12:32
So, A.A. and AH.M. have been let go by GF. It seems this new chief really means business. Anyone who does not perform is out. Any GF staff care to give us his/her views and reactions?

Icarus
26th Jun 2002, 16:27
Hoohray!

About f*****g time! :mad:

Best thing that has happened in GF for over a year!

Let's hope there are one or two more to follow!

Question? Will the remainder of the 'useless hangers-on' that came with (were brought in by) AA get the same treatment or not?

What about the people he (AA) forced to 'manage' the unmanageable? Will they get a second hearing? Most of AA ineffectiveness could be attributed to him wanting to be 'the good guy' all the time, especially for his mates; leaving his second level managers forced to give/keep jobs for (his) dross.

Some have now been left out of GF's future when essentially they didn't stand a cat in hells chance of succeeding in improving departmental performance.

Come on Jame's play the white man! ;)

(Oh, and be careful what you say in the board-room, I've heard you have used the phrase "I want you to bring home the bacon" on a number of occassions when addressing the sales team!! Might not go down so well or be appreciated here! Unless of course you intend to fill the board-room with Aussies! ;) ).

ex330
27th Jun 2002, 02:20
Gulf Air received an award from Airbus Yesterday for aircraft operations of the A340.

"It's about getting the most use of the aircraft as far as efficiency, safety, comfort and other issues are concerned," he said. Vice president, operations Captain Hameed Ali said Gulf Air's new management is hoping to turn the airline around.

"A three-year plan is awaiting approval from the airline's board and then we'll know where we are going from here," he said.


Any idea when the next board meeting is??? I heard August, but is the decision on the new plan coming sooner rather than later????
ex330

ia1166
27th Jun 2002, 06:10
the end of august. not much going on at the moment.

ia1166
27th Jun 2002, 06:13
by the way, who is aa and ahm anyway? which departments are we talking about. all i heard was that 5 guys in rostering were laid off. the same day that some passports strangely dissapeared from rosterings' safe draw.

boiler
27th Jun 2002, 14:03
I was told of the following joke that is going around GF lately.

"What does the 'TBA' stand for in a lot of the organization charts that have been e-mailed around lately"?

Answer: To Be Australian!

So, is there any truth to that? Are a lot of Australians esp. ex. Ansett people being hired by GF?

Bullishit
27th Jun 2002, 19:22
:( Where is the report of the A320?

Lodestar
3rd Jul 2002, 10:11
Can anyone confirm the rumours that GF is considering to buy 50/70 seaters from probably Bombardier?

What is the news from GF, it really has been too quit around here.....:(

MTQatar
3rd Jul 2002, 10:57
The 50-70 seater rumour has been confirmed by the CEO in a recent press conference in Dubai. A decision will be taken in September this year.

GULFPILOT76
8th Jul 2002, 10:21
I've seen an article in the Gulf News lately talking about 50-70 seaters. This is a recommendation from SH&E. They will look at Bombardier and Embraer. Sounds good to me, the more fuel you carry the more it F**KS up your life, so I'll volunteer. The latest
767 blocksheets are as close to hell as you can get. Embraer here I come!!( on the same pay of course).

scanscanscan
10th Jul 2002, 21:03
Please post the 767 block sheets so we can see if they are hellish or not or simply legal.

GULFPILOT76
13th Jul 2002, 12:38
3X scan,

Quote. ' On the one hand the commercial aims of the company require that the maximum productivity be obtained from what are very costly resources, the aircrew, and on the other hand the dictates of flight safety require that the personnel are NOT worked so hard that natural tiredness develops to a level of fatique at which they are unable to safely perform their duties and from which they cannot easily be aroused in an emergency' end quote. May be this rings a bell. Pilots, even within the FTL, can be worked to a point where fatique will start to kick in. I think there are signs within the fleet that this is about to happen, I am sorry to say. A lot of reports have been written on this subject.

Icarus
14th Jul 2002, 05:17
very costly resources, the aircrew,

I belive the fact the schedule GF produces is a heap of cr@p that makes it a costly operation, not the aircrew!

Look at the ratio of block-hours to flying-hours; it is garbage and that is a major factor in GF's unprofitability.

Perhaps that's where these new boys should look more closely.

But then again, I think from what I have heard the Chief would have to bend over double and look up his behind to find the culpit(s)!! :D

GULFPILOT76
14th Jul 2002, 14:05
Icarus,

I've seen your reaction to the economics side and I fully agree,
but do you also have an opinion about the human factor side of my last post. I understand it's very hard to glance over a block sheet and say it is hard or not, but still I would appreciate your general opinion as a manager.

Thanks.

boiler
14th Jul 2002, 17:35
From what I have heard, it is not the schedule as much as using the crew inefficiently. There is no doubt that GF has a costly operation, but the schedules is only a small part of it. GF just got an award from Airbus for the way they use the A340's. This seems to indicate that the problem is much more than the schedules. Maybe the crewing department is not using their systems properly (or maybe there is no one who knows to get the max out of it). But that is just a guess.

ex330
14th Jul 2002, 20:21
Has anyone heard what the fleet plans are yet. Is GF still getting the 5 new A320's they were planning to. How many RJ's are they looking to get. any info would be appreciated. Cheers
ex330

Icarus
15th Jul 2002, 04:06
it is not the schedule as much as using the crew inefficiently

Well I guess the flight and cabin crew just decide when they want to work then do they! Or do they follow are rather inefficient (and therefore very costly) schedule?! :rolleyes:

Award from Airbus, big deal. For what, the highest cycled A340's in the world 'cos they do 20,30 and 40 minute sectors. Great planning, wonderful efficiencies. Wonder what the maintenance costs are compared to other carriers! No wonder no-one wants them!

GP76 - Human Factor, since whan has GF been that bothered? I feel for you guys some time, really, I've seen some of you coming back off flights and walking into HDQ looking like death warmed up especially on the 76!

I think the problem in crewing is well known, but nothing is going to happen, as usual.
Not the answer you are looking for, sorry. I don't even think the new systems will make that much of an improvement either.

Until the schedule is one that is efficient then nothing will change. GF keep masking it under phrases like 'fluid or unstable markets'. That's BS as far as I am concerned, GF creates it's own instability by chasing every thing in the market and usually winning by under cutting with no regard to cost of sale or cost of operation.
Until that philosophy has gone I can't see any black ink on the balance sheet for a long time to come yet!

boiler
15th Jul 2002, 06:51
Award from Airbus, big deal. For what, the highest cycled A340's in the world 'cos they do 20,30 and 40 minute sectors.

Oh pu-lease? A 20 minute sector? when was the last time you saw a GF schedule (if you actually have)? The 340's are used to LHR, DAC, BKK, RUH, JED, MNL, KUL, and other long haul routes. No 20 or even 30 minute sector there. The only sector with a less than 40 minute block time is BAH-DMM (35 minutes) and an A320 is used. Please Icarus, stop spreading false statistics. I would really like to believe some of the things you say about GF because you are working for them, but I really can't when you start to exagerate stuff.

MTQatar
15th Jul 2002, 07:11
Bolermaker,

GF still flies the A340 to DMM, BAH, JED and MNL from DOH (www.amadeus.net). DMM and BAH are a total waste of aircraft, JED is understandable but the B763 would be a better use of aircraft.

Icarus
15th Jul 2002, 07:58
BM you really are hopeless aren't you.

So, agreed MNL and maybe KUL could be viewed as long haul being 7 and 10 hour sectors, but the rest? RUH and JED! Get real, if a 2 hour block time is long haul then you really are not from "Planet Earth, obviously!" And the 'hopping' around the Gulf (and yes GF did for a long time use a 340 on a 12 minute flight BAH-DMM for quite some time) in these aircraft is nothing more than ridiculous.

I was getting at high cycled long haul aircraft, these aircraft are designed for a very different operation to that that GF uses them for, be it 40 minutes or 2 hours, it is a sad waste of money caused predominatly by bad scheduling. This cascades to tired and under-productive crew from an expensive and inefficient operation. That was the point of my initial reply.
You on the other hand rely on 'your sources' who are in fact close to (or are) the people (IMHO) who are entirley (ir)responsible for most of GF's continued negative-growth (to coin a PC phrase!).

scanscanscan
15th Jul 2002, 12:31
Gulfpilot 76.... Feel your pain man!
Was a GF line pilot, from April 1974 until May 2000.(2years F27,14 years on the L1011 and 10years on the B767.)
After termination at 60 I found it took about 18 months to normalise the sleep patterns and 2years to regain health and fitness, consider myself lucky to have survived these blocks, others did not.
In retrospect I should have packed these blocks in at age 50 and took a job with a pension at B&Q.

boiler
15th Jul 2002, 15:33
MT Qatar,
I am looking at the GF timetable right in front of me. No 340's to DMM. Maybe they did so on the past, but not anymore. As for JED, don't they use that for Umrah and for labor markets connecting to MNL? You also have to take the planes to AUH for maintenance, so in certain cases, you have no option but to use them in certain intra-gulf sectors.

GULFPILOT76
16th Jul 2002, 11:52
Triple scan, Icarus,

Thanks for the kind understanding and your own experience, I am still optimistic (against all odds) things will change, don't ask me why. I just guess some of us won't make 60 if it doesn't.