VA annual profit plunge of $110 mil

[004wercras]

I'm sure executive bonuses are still safe?
Making shareholder returns at the higher end are probably not part of operation 'Game Change'?
Is this one of the reasons Donahue decided bail?

Virgin warns of $110 million loss (http://m.theage.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-singles-out-carbon-tax-in-profit-warning-20130805-2r8id.html)

[The The]

At least they are giving a profit guidance, unlike QF who have said nothing about the second half year.

[PoppaJo]

Do not be surprised to see Tiger more profitable than Virgin next year.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Do not be surprised to see Tiger more profitable than Virgin next year.

That would be a surprise...

[Buttscratcher]

Prolly just a beancounter's black magic
....see, they bought Tiger and Skywest this year.....so that's a writable loss, right?

[falconx]

Isn't tiger already?

[Best Rate]

A DreamLiner announcement soon should send the share price heading the right way at least..... :ok:

[Buttscratcher]

Why's that, BR?

[Break Right]

A350 I think best rate.

[KRUSTY 34]

A new type is probably the last thing VA needs.

A reality check for some methinks! :confused:

[jarden]

Virgin has had very poor return since it has been set up in Australia. They had far more years of loses than had profits. It seems to get harder for them each year, if that carbon tax was removed it would help them out a fair bit. $50 million it adds a lot to their bottom line.

[The Bunglerat]

Well Jarden, with any luck September 7 should take care of that.

[Romulus]

Hold on a minute!

All the experts here were saying what a genius Borghetti is, how he will deliver, what a cock Joyce is and how he will destroy Qantas by letting Virgin take over etc etc etc.

Maybe Joyce at Qantas isn't so bad after all?

Just a topic conversation starter.

[Cactusjack]

Does this mean Il Deuce and his footstool Tanner will engage in some lame HR roadshows preaching about the needs for cost cutting, efficiency, cutbacks in negotiated awards blah blah blah so that they can hold on to their ludicrous salaries and bonuses?
Borghetti stuffed up. He bought a chunk of Tiger which will return nothing for a couple of more years, he bought Skywest right at the time the mining industry turned downwards and he now has several different aircraft types and business models (didn't AN do that?).
John, quit blaming the carbon tax and stand up and be accountable. You haven't done a stellar job. And as stated earlier, VA has never been a great investment.
Rob Sherrard was the one who really hit the gravy train, not to forget Brett, Highfield, Gill and Ivanovski. Paydirt for the mates! As for everybody else.........flush!

[VH-FTS]

When will management learn that pilots are always the smartest guys in the room and should be running airlines...

Some of the above comments are a joke. You lot complain when airlines only cut costs, now you are complaining about someone investing in the airline and improving the product. Yes, a bad result, but this has a long way to play out yet (and isn't quiet like Ansett either).

VA has never been a great investment

True, but name one airline that has ever been a good investment!

Buying Skywest was about the mining boom and getting more regional bums on jet seats between BNE-SYD-MEL-PER. Mining towns were the low hanging fruit, so no wonder they went after these towns first. The company is going to have to work a bit harder now. Buying 60% of Tiger was a strategic move to avoid two LCCs biting at VA's ankles, as well as keeping Singapore Airlines interested.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is getting the election over and done with can only be a good thing for the industry.


Does this mean Il Deuce and his footstool Tanner will engage in some lame HR roadshows ...


Last I heard Tanner was gone. But yes, I think cost control will be the big focus this year. No many pilots will be called off the hold file as a result.

[Higs]

Mate..... Virgin is just where Ansett was, except with lovely new planes. I'm not even sure how many types they operate, but I reckon it is more than Ansett and you can talk all you like about expansion, more new planes and buying other Airlines. You have to make some money or else the rumours will start, small at first then when the traveling public gets a whiff they will dump you quicker than you can say "Absolutely"!!!!!!!
I hope John gets it together. He is one of the best Airline CEO's I have ever seen when it comes to his staff. Good luck, because everyone has the right to go broke.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Borghetti takes the long view
1.Introduction of an upgraded Sabre Res system
2.Purchase of Tiger and SkyWest
....the clowns at QF only see as far as the next bonus cycle....and we can see how thats working out

[wondrousbitofrough]

Bad hat Harry, by upgraded res system (Sabre) I take it you mean the system that's let us down twice in 3 weeks? The debacle at Sydney 3 weeks ago and today's outage is doing nothing to help us keep passengers.

[VBA Engineer]

John, quit blaming the carbon tax and stand up and be accountable

He is standing up.

:p:)

[Flying Binghi]

Where did the money go ?

Shareholders must be happy...

Virgin Australia is paying plenty for Labor’s utterly useless carbon tax:

...The Company today also confirmed that the pre-tax costs of the carbon tax for the 2013 financial year are estimated to be between $45 million to $50 million and were unable to be recovered due to weak economic conditions and the competitive environment. As a result of these factors, Virgin Australia expects a statutory Loss After Tax in the range of $95 million to $110 million...

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/virgin_loses_innocence_about_carbon_tax/)


At least Branson could see the damage it would do to the airline...

"...Any tax should be done on a global basis, I think ideally, not on a country-by-country basis...
...if it disadvantages Australian companies and Australian people; anyway that's a question that Australians are going to have to ask themselves..."

PM - Branson criticises carbon tax, backs biofuels 06/07/2011 (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3262739.htm)











.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hallajeuah...!!!

Wot say u lot now..... Kevin 07 dun on the 7th ....live on CH........7

See ya.......but not too soon Oi hope.....
:yuk:

[limitedrisk]

True, but name one airline that has ever been a good investment!

Thai Airways! Made a profit for 40 years straight prior to a loss in 2008 then a few more....

You did say "ever" been a good investment. I reckon those first 40 years would have been alright.

[neville_nobody]

True, but name one airline that has ever been a good investment!

Branson cleaned up on Virgin Blue/Australia. Made him hundreds of millions.

[Cactusjack]

What did Borghetti earn for the last financial year? I thought it was $2.8 mil excluding bonuses and shares. He sure has learned a lot from his old boss at QF - earn millions per annum and deliver????????
Then again, no wonder the place is crying poor when they are, or should I say were paying people like Tanner $915 k per year! Talk about dead money!

And to think, investors buy shares in this?? How lame.

[TIMA9X]

Virgin Blows 50 million on 'carbon'

That's a big hit, Australia is currently not a cheap place to do business for airlines. The next 12 months will be very interesting, particularly in Asia as well. A lot going on at the moment.

0apwHqbMy1c

[Berealgetreal]

Our industry has been getting raped by governments for years. Its a cash cow and has an enormous input to the economy. I read an article that said that we are around 1.85 times more productive than other industries. 25 mil last year 50 mil this year for Virgin. What do we get for it? Nothing, not even a show bag.

If socialism continues in this country I think you might find we will see redundancies. Its time for the long term unemployed and the single mums to get up off the couch and chip in. The rest of us are getting up at 3am and sitting in peak hour on the way home.

I don't know if the 100 mil includes the purchase of the other two companies but if it does, combined with the carbon tax isn't probably as bad as it looks. Lets not forget Virgin hasn't had decades of free reign on corporate and government accounts so its a mighty big mountain to climb against the QF enormous machine.

Relishing in the misfortunes of colleagues is not normal by the way.

[Chadzat]

When you are talking about Tanner it most certainly IS normal! As he was a very not-normal person.....

[43Inches]

I don't know if the 100 mil includes the purchase of the other two companies but if it does, combined with the carbon tax isn't probably as bad as it looks.

Singapore Airlines purchased shares directly from VA in exchange for guaranteed 10% holdings for $105mil (Oct 2012). This was probably part of a deal to fund the acquisition of Tiger and Skywest one would assume. Therefore the purchase of Tiger and Skywest was effectively free, paid for by SQ. The further shares this year were purchased from Virgin group so that money went to Branson.

[Romulus]

that would require admitting that Qantas and Joyce aren't so bad after all...

[porch monkey]

Plenty. Do a search. Try v Australia. Do try to keep up........

[004wercras]

Here you go dude;

http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/520693-va-annual-profit-plunge-110-mil.html

:ok:

[Exit Strategy]

I would be more concerned with their billion $debt (combined with operating loss).

[porch monkey]

Yes, plenty of outgoings due to buying restructuring etc. But "preferred choice for domestic business"? 15 or so % of the market is a start, but a long way from "preferred". And if they don't pull their finger out to maintain customer satisfaction, then that's going to slide downhill.

[Jack Ranga]

Porch I think he's talking about a recent survey of business travellers that had Virgin overtake Qantas in satisfaction rates. Of note, the survey included business travellers that travel in economy. The survey was a Ray Morgan one I think, so reputable :ok:

[porch monkey]

Problem is jack, I see it as it happens. The poll is always behind the times, sadly. They really do need to get their **** together in the cabin, and, dare I say it, on the ground.......:sad:

[27/09]

Anyway, I would be really concerned about the injection of capital this morning from AirNZ and SQ following the results announcement. NZX media release by AirNZ states an unsecured loan to VAH of AUD$70m was agreed to prop up liquidity.Air New Zealand can probably afford it at the moment.

Air New Zealand profit more than doubles - Business News | TVNZ (http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/air-new-zealand-profit-more-than-doubles-5547408)

[ernestkgann]

Interesting to see how Borghetti makes money from here. Any advance in business yield will be incremental and there is no domestic capacity expansion that the market could absorb. There is no international presence except for the international airlines that are the primary shareholders of the company and no plans to fly Virgin's own product and aircraft overseas. They make a commission on the code share but it can't be substantial and its not Virgin 'product'. No freight component to the company.
Tiger and Skywest must be going to rake it in.

[always inverted]

No international presence...

Umm, VAI, VANZ, Virgin Samoa all international and operated by Virgin. Or is there something that I am misreading about "international".
The ASX 200 site gives a comprehensive report about the outcome, I suggest a read. Should answer a few comments on here.

[Vorsicht]

Air New Zealand can probably afford it at the moment.

Whether or not Air New Zealand can afford it is not the concern. Why Virgin needs it is the real question, given that JB claimed to have 580 odd mil in the bank and a 184 mil cashflow.

WhT am I missing here?

[ernestkgann]

The odd 777 and a commanding 737 presence in the Pacific does not an international operation make.

[astinapilot]

Cash in bank is secured by banks you borrow off for aircraft.

[always inverted]

Well I guess that international to you and me mean different things, given I fly to different countries I would have thought that would be classed as international. Maybe I missed something in our manuals about not being short haul international...:ugh:

[Shredder6]

I also thought that 'International' (as in airline), was flying between two countries.
:ugh:

[ernestkgann]

I'm sorry you missed my sarcastic comment. The point is that the international routes flown are not substantial. That Borghetti's cunning plan doesn't include flying to Asia, Europe, North and South America, Africa. There isn't much money to be made in their current or future international ops.

[always inverted]

This is quoted straight from the Virgin Anouncement on the ASX...

Domestic
Domestic EBIT22 was a loss of $44.4 million (including $8.8 million23 from Skywest), a decline of $137.6 million on the prior comparative period. This performance was impacted by the difficult economic and operating environment which has impacted revenue, includes allocated corporate overheads and the Skywest loss, and makes no adjustment for waived ancillary fees or other earned revenue impacts from the Sabre migration.

International
International EBIT24 was a profit of $7.7 million, making no adjustment for waived ancillary fees or other earned revenue impacts from the Sabre migration.

Interesting that International made a profit in the last year and the Domestic Operation LOST a fortune... As for future international ops...tbc.

[KRUSTY 34]

I guess it depends upon what tier of the business wears the overall group loss. It's a fair suspicion that QF's international arm is Peter, with JQ being Paul. Whether VA has employed a similar strategy in reverse, well who knows?

Overall the entire business has to be viable, something the next few years will reveal.

Personally I hope VA hasn't bitten off more than it can chew. The acquisition of Tiger and Skywest obviously had an effect on the bottom line. The real endgame however must surely be the costs involved in making these acquisitions profitable?

[ampclamp]

You need to spend a dollar to make a few more. They needed a lcc ie Tiger to compete in any way against JQ. Q successfully snookered V with the dual brand strategy. Getting into Skywest, not sure but hope it works. I'll give them credit for having a go at growth and product diversification.

[Cactusjack]

No doubt executive bonuses are still safe?

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://m.theaustralian.com.au/business/breaking-news/virgin-australia-records-981m-loss/story-e6frg90f-1226707308879)

Typical excuses - carbon tax, restructuring, economic uncertainty, fuel in USD, new software, everybody else's fault except the CEO and Co, yeah yeah same old story we know........
Perhaps investing in Tiger was a bad choice?
Perhaps indulging in Skywest because JB had mining royalty stars in his eyes was a bad idea? He struck while the iron was cold on this one. They moved far to late as the mi ing sector was declining at the time they bought in. That's a bad business decision John, the gamble didn't pay off.
Perhaps the ludicrous amount of mid level managers and 'specialists' for the past decade is taking its toll? If you want to compete with JQ on that front John you need to remove the layers of people who don't get their hands dirty.

I'm sick of hearing the excuses from Australian airlines for their poor performances, poor investor returns, pathetic share prices and lack of dividends for investors while at the same time the senior people reap millions in salaries and bonuses. When will everybody else wake up to this farcicle con job.
If these executives can't factor in oil prices, economic uncertainties, an outbreak of the clap and whatever else can cause profit declines then bugger off out of the industry. The excuses are lame, palpable and very very repititious. In fact the words bull**** and incompetence comes to mind.

P.S John, how many millions are you still paying that nupty Branson so as to use his his silly brand name??? What a crock.