736 NAS - Why?

[althenick]

Hi
Was lurking about on the RN Website and found That FRADU at Culdrose had been given a squadron number. According to the blurb nothing has really changed except that now they also do observer training which seems strange as I always though 750 did that job. The Pilots are still Civvy so why give it a Squadron Number?

[seadrills]

Because it then becomes more difficult to disband the unit?

[Bismark]

Perhaps they are going to fill the unit with serving pilots who are on hold for F35. There were also buzzes that more of the aircraft were going to be based at Yeovilton rather than Culdrose.

[BBadanov]

736 NAS was the dark blue Bucc training squadron, at Lossie I think.

[Madbob]

Althenick - maybe we can then declare FRADU to NATO in the RN/FAA order of battle? With our declining frontline we may be getting to the stage where what out to be regarded as support/training assets get included to "massage" the numbers and to make our stats (at least on paper) look a bit stronger.:}

A bit like renaming the OCU's reserve squadrons....

Get hat, coat......

MB

[althenick]

Bismark - Your answer seems pretty good but why put them to Yeovil?

[4Greens]

736 was also the conversion unit for the Scimitar at Lossie.

[seadrills]

Why Yeovilton?

Why not Yeovilton? It does have a runway after all and suppose it may as well be used.

[tmmorris]

Madbob,

Always wondered why the VGSs are now Volunteer Gliding squadrons

[Milo Minderbinder]

Given that the RAF has effectively given up on retaining any anti-shipping capability, can you think of any better place to attempt to retain those maritime skills, and teach new Navy pilots how to attack ships? By the time the F-35 comes into service those skills will have been lost to both services.
Imagine it as a kind of seedcorn project, keeping the maritime strike skills alive.
My guess is the Navy will get more hand-me-down Hawks based at Yeovilton as part of an expanded standards flight. It may not be perfect, but desperation measures are required.

[ACW418]

tmm

As a VGS CO at the time I think I can make some informed comments on the subject. The then COS for the Air Cadets was asked if we could be called squadrons by a number of us at an annual conference of VGS CO's. It eventually went to the Air Force board and was approved.

Why did I want it to be called a squadron? My VGS was on an Army Garrison (formerly an RAF Station). The Army insisted on calling us a gliding club and gave us support in the same vein. Once we became a Squadron it was a lot easier to ask and obtain support more appropriate. e.g. messing, accommodation and so on.

Pity the Army subsequently declared all the hangars unsafe and booted us out without warning but that is another story. Funny old thing but I understand they are now safe again and being filled with - you guessed it Army units. Not flying units mind!

ACW

[althenick]

Seadrills
Going by your location you obviously are in the know.
I was under the impression that Yeovil was to become quite busy with Wildcat and CHF Merlin.
Thanks for all the replies

Al

[Bismark]

I was under the impression that Yeovil was to become quite busy with Wildcat and CHF Merlin

Have you been to Yeovilton? The normal residency is 100+ aircraft (136 when the SHAR was there) - a few additional Hawks will not make much difference.

[orca]

I am not in the know...

..but I do know that Yeovilton used to cope with 800, 801, 899, NFSF(FW), Historics and Heron Flight south side and 845, 846, 847, 848, 815 and 702 north side.

I thought that the Merlin transition meant a reduction in aircraft numbers for the Junglies and even with 727 south side I'm pretty sure a few more Hawks wouldn't really break the bank.

(Errr, looks like I posted at the same time as Bismark, with much the same message. Great minds etc etc)

[Milo Minderbinder]

"why put them to Yeovil?"

I hope you meant Yeovilton.........Yeovil (Westland) has a short grass runway with a bump in the middle.....would be fun for a jet

[althenick]

Sorry Milo - Having been a "Fulmar brat" I didn't know there was a difference as the old man was never stationed there lol.

[tomdocherty72]

The squadron was first formed at RNAS Yeovilton on 24th May 1943 as an air combat training squadron for naval aviators, before moving to RNAS St Merryn in September that year. Between 1943 and 1952 the squadron operated several piston-engined aircraft including the Supermarine Seafire, Fairey Barracuda, Hawker Sea Fury and Fairey Firefly.

The squadron moved to RNAS Culdrose in 1950 where in August 1952, it was eventually disbanded as piston-engined squadron and reformed as the Advanced Jet Flying School; operating Supermarine Attacker and Meteor T.7 jet aircraft.

It was recommissioned at RNAS Lossiemouth in June 1953 as a training squadron for Sea Vampire and Hawker Sea Hawk. In 1959 the squadron was equipped with Supermarine Scimitar F.1 aircraft under the command of Lieutenant Commander J.D. Baker, to provide support for operational squadrons. As Scimitars started to be phased out of first line servicing, 736 Squadron was disbanded on 26 March 1965.

736 NAS reformed shortly afterwards with the Blackburn Buccaneer S.2, using aircraft and aircrews from the recently disbanded 700B Flight (the Buccaneer S.2 Intensive Flying Trials Unit) in order to train aircrews for the aircraft. Still based at RNAS Lossiemouth, from 1967 onwards the unit shared a pool of aircraft with 803 NAS, the Buccaneer HQ and weapons trials unit. With the decision to transfer all the RN's Buccaneers to the RAF, 736 NAS took on the extra task of training RAF crews. To cope with this, several Buccaneer S.1s were taken out of storage to increase the numbers of aircraft available, and a number of RAF aircrew who had previously served exchange tours with FAA Buccaneer squadrons were posted to 736 NAS as instructors. After a few accidents due to engine problems the S.1s were withdrawn from service in 1970. In 1971 the RAF stood up their own OCU (237 OCU) to take over the training of both their own and the dwindling number of RN aircrews.

736 NAS was finally disbanded in early 1972, and was inactive until it was recommissioned in order to operate the Fleet Air Arm's Hawk T1s in 2013.

[Kilonovember52]

Insight into 736 NAS and their role in preparing a FAA Fixed wing cadre for the arrival of the F35!

Royal Navy 736 Naval Air Squadron will fly from the new Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620412/Behind-scenes-Britains-Top-Gun-fighter-pilots-Royal-Navy-736-Naval-Air-Squadron-business-fly-decks-new-Queen-Elizabeth-class-aircraft-carriers.html|)

BBC News - Royal Navy takes over Culdrose air base Hawk jets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27584899)

[Martin the Martian]

I would have thought that 764 NAS would be a more appropriate numberplate.

With regard to the squadron's base, my understanding is that when FRADU re-equipped with Hawks it moved to Culdrose as the range of the Hawk is less than the Hunter with four 100-gallon tanks apparently. T.1s are not plumbed to carry auxiliary tanks. An article in the aviation press (sorry, can't remember which comic) on Hawker Hunter Aviation's ops at Yeovilton last year would suggest that when the T.1 comes to an end, if HHA receive the contract for FOST support they will likely more than likely use Yeovilton as a base.

[Mike51]

So you're saying that the Hawks, which replaced the Hunters, are likely to themselves be replaced by Hunters?

[david parry]

809 buccaneers, were changed to form another buccaneer squadron 736:)

[Martin the Martian]

'So you're saying that the Hawks, which replaced the Hunters, are likely to themselves be replaced by Hunters?'

That's about the size of it, if HHA get the work. I love a bit of irony.

Mind, who knows what might end up doing the job, when you see what aircraft do similar work for NATO forces: Alpha Jet, L.39s, even Skyhawks. Either way, 736 would appear to have a very finite life.

[Sandy Parts]

The real question is...is the Yeovilton Air day as good fun as it used to be for visiting crews? :) Holds my award for best UK trip away in my MR2 days (what was the nightclub called with the palm trees in it?). Everyone (visitors and locals) just seemed to be out to have as good a time as possible and the staff 'on board' couldn't do enough to help. Hope some of that character remains for any incoming studes to experience (even if they are obviously joining the wrong arm of the Forces :E)

[Hangarshuffle]

Or Jardins was the nightclub with the palm trees. Its been flattened and is now a warden-fitted accommodation for the elderly,or some such piss. Has been for 13 odd years now..Possibly appropriate then for many lurking on here.
The 393 club at Ilchester (had a propeller in it from god knows what) also long gone by 23 odd years, now houses.
Yes got to admit VLN was a good social for the airday, better than clag and doom filled misery cloud that is Culdrose.
Glad you enjoyed it, its still a good day when the sun shines.

[Mick Strigg]

To answer the original question......736 has been formed to conform with the MAA's requirement to have a Duty Holder construct and CAMO organisation. Therefore, it is now under the command of a RN Lt Cdr rather than an ex-Gp Capt. Definately a step-up in my book!

[switch_on_lofty]

What does CAMO stand for?

[chopper2004]

Continuous Airworthiness Maintenance Organisation :)

As an afterthought will 736 get the T2 in the future? :ok::E

[switch_on_lofty]

Ahh, CAMO Organisation. Like NVG Goggles.

[Vitesse]

According to our local news, Serco were running the show...

Justification for the change (TV news interview with OC 736) seemed a bit limp.

[AutoBit]

How did it seem a bit 'limp'?

The RN needs to regenerate its cadre of fixed wing pilots. There are only so many slots in the US. Why would you not have Navy pilots flying military aircraft in support of a Navy/Defence mission?

Or have I missed something?

[lmgaylard]

I think the nightclub with the palm trees was called 'The Gardens'.


I'm just completing an article with 736 for which I interviewed the current CO. I was lucky to spend 4 days with the squadron, 2 at Culdrose and 2 at Yeovilton.


Serco only now provide 3 or 4 pilots with the main guys being FAA and RNR. Babcock still provide the ground crews.
FRADU is gone along with NFSF (FW) and the Hawk Detachment. It is now a Royal Navy squadron which will still fulfil certain defence contracts, such as FOST and also NATO allies.


It will also be the 'hub' for naval fast-jet aircrew in the run-up to JSF.

[Martin the Martian]

Wandering off topic, didn't the RAF, back in the 1970s/1980s, instead of washing out struggling fast jet students at the TWU stage, send them to tow targets in Canberras for a tour to build up experience and then give them another go? I'm sure I heard that somewhere?

I guess no such equivalent exists now.

[Wander00]

MM - Certainly the case on the Ton early 90s

[Martin the Martian]

Thanks Wander00.:ok: