RAF flag on Alpe d'Huez - TdeF Stage 18

[Trim Stab]

Quick bz for the person waiving the RAF flag on TdeF Stage 18 - made it on the telly live coverage..

Unless it was a Mod shouting for Bradley Wiggins?

[Uncle Ginsters]

'RAF Flag' ? Is that the same as the RAF Ensign?:ok:

[Trim Stab]

'RAF Flag' ? Is that the same as the RAF Ensign?

No, because it was not on an RAF boat, and Alpe d'Huez is a big mountain, not a sea.

RAF calling their flag an "Ensign" is as ridiculous as RAF officers wearing ceremonial spurs and swords. Oh wait, they do that too...

[Ken Scott]

as ridiculous as RAF officers wearing ceremonial spurs and swords

Swords yes but never seen anyone light blue in spurs.

And why is a sword ridiculous? RAF has its roots in the RFC & RNAS & many of its early personnel transferred over from the cavalry, it's no more ridiculous than anyone (apart from the Household Cavalry) wearing such traditional accoutrements in today's military.

What should the RAF officer carry on parade? It would look a little ridiculous leading a flight carrying a pistol.......

[Trim Stab]

What should the RAF officer carry on parade?

Well if they must insist on dressing up, how about leather hat and goggles? Ceremonial handkerchief with map of Germany on it?

Modern army regiments - eg the Chav Cav - don't once around with swords on the grounds that a sword is naff all use inside a tank.

[Wrathmonk]

the Chav Cav - don't ponce around with swords

Except when escorting the colour of course

http://www.1rtr.net/sp08/Standards_Parade_027.jpg

[Wensleydale]

Also saw the Yorkshire flag in attendance. Getting off thread, but with the opening stage of next year's tour passing through the hallowed ground of Hawes, I wonder how the peloton will cope with the cattle grids of the dales together with sheep wandering into the unfenced roads! I predict carnage!

[Roland Pulfrew]

No, because it was not on an RAF boat...
RAF calling their flag an "Ensign" is as ridiculous...

Well according to this (http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/theroyalairforceensign.cfm) it is an ensign and its all the Admiralty's fault. :E

The Royal Air Force Ensign. The Royal Air Force Ensign was introduced in 1920 amid much controversy. This was because it involved the Admiralty, The War Office and the Air Ministry. The Air Council had decided that the newly formed Royal Air Force should fly its own flag from its stations. This did not find much favour with the Admiralty who have the right to veto the introduction of any new flag intended for use either on land or at sea anywhere within the British territories.

The Air Council though, were most insistent and so the Admiralty reluctantly conceded, stating that if the Royal Air Force was intent on having its own flag, then it should adopt the Union Flag with some appropriate device attached to it.

The Air Council did not like this idea and sent a sketch of its proposed design to the Admiralty, which was a White Ensign minus the St George's Cross. Although the War Office had no objection to this, the Admiralty did and rejected the submission on the grounds that the White Ensign, along with the Blue and Red Ensigns, were reserved for the Royal Naval Service exclusively and any use of them not connected with the Royal Navy was to be forbidden.

[Wensleydale]

The Royal Air Force Ensign was introduced in 1920 amid much controversy


If we had tried this today, would the chair of the meeting insist that we "run it up a flag pole and see if it flies"? B*llsh*t bingo has its uses occasionally.

[Whenurhappy]

Did I read correctly that the full (pre-war) Ceremonial Dress, complete with the rather ridiculous Busby, was worn with spurs? Also, I understand that Mess Dress trousers ('overalls') had a rather natty gold strip down the seam, akin to senior Naval officers, and spurs (without rowels) were also worn.

There are 3 patterns of RAF Sword. The every-day Officers' sword was authorised in 1926, I believe, but Air Officers' swords have different billets on the scabbard. There are a few pre-1926 pattern 'RAF' swords lurking around; they do not have the gilt basket hilt and the blades seem to be less ornately etched - perhaps they were a private purchase item?

One little know fact is that CAS has his own sword, presented to the Office in the mid 1950s. It is sans basket, and has a much longer grip that the 1926 pattern, as was presented by (IIRC) the Worshipful Company of Cutlers, or somesuch. No amount of googling turns up a picture of it.

[Sandy Parts]

"One little know fact is that CAS has his own sword, presented to the Office in the mid 1950s. It is sans basket, and has a much longer grip that the 1926 pattern, as was presented by (IIRC) the Worshipful Company of Cutlers, or somesuch. No amount of googling turns up a picture of it."

Would that be to prevent any incumbent in post falling upon it at any stage, no matter how often the government of the day force him to bend to their will? :)

Anyhoo - back on topic - maybe the 'ensign-waver' had 'borrowed' it from one of the many stations recently closed? Strange how little coverage Mr Froome's efforts have received this year. His misfortune to follow in the wheels of the great 'sidey-face'?

[ImageGear]

Off Topic

Perhaps this is the Sword in Question.

Trenchard Painting while Chief of Air Staff, 1927 - 1930

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Lord_Trenchard_in_RAF_full_dress.jpg/387px-Lord_Trenchard_in_RAF_full_dress.jpg

On Topic

Imagegear

[dctyke]

I'll see your three patterns and raise you to four...... WO sword with black whale bone handle. In a past life I had cause to wear it many times.

[Bob Viking]

Sandy Parts.
As an avid road cyclist myself, who's been gripped by every tour for over twenty years, it is fantastic to finally have so much British interest. I have also noticed the apparent lack of coverage of Froome's efforts. I put it down to several factors. Firstly, he is not viewed as an all-British individual because of his foreign up-bringing and he certainly doesn't come across like your average guy from Chippenham (or wherever). He never received as much interest even in his early tours when he rode for minor teams such as Barloworld. Secondly, he is not as interesting in interviews as Bradley. Thirdly, his efforts come after the whole Armstrong affair and amidst the meltdown in athletics. Large swathes of the public are probably, understandably, sceptical about the whole sport at the moment. I was taken in by Lance hook, line and sinker but I fully believe the Team Sky set up is squeaky clean. In fact the whole sport really has cleaned up its act in dramatic form. Apart from Lance (I believe head figures in the UCI should resign over the issue) cycling is a world leader in catching cheats which is why it receives so much adverse publicity.
Anyway, sorry to divert the thread from a classic pprune tangent.
BV

[Ken Scott]

Well if they must insist on dressing up, how about leather hat and goggles? Ceremonial handkerchief with map of Germany on it?


Oh how very patronising Trim Stab! Anti-RAF banter....are you sure you're in the right place, I thought this was a Military thread?

[XV277]

'Air' flags are refered to as ensigns.

[Hatchet 130]

I have to agree with Bob V,

We're on the eve of something unbelievable, a Brit winning the T de F second year running!!!!

He's as British as Murray, in fact, when he was born there most people still called it Keenyah, so he must be British.

A word of warning, anyone driving to France on hols in the next 2 weeks, the Frogs won't like you, especially the Gendarme, cruise control to 79 kph.

Chop, chop.

[2Planks]

Said ensign also spotted by Le Louvre during last night's laps

[Union Jack]

A word of warning, anyone driving to France on hols in the next 2 weeks, the Frogs won't like you, especially the Gendarme(rie), cruise control to 79 kph.

I'm not sure they will really be that bothered, Hatchet, observing that no Frenchman has won since 1985. You might also like to look at:

French Speed Limits (http://www.safetravel.co.uk/frenchspeedlimits.html) :)

Jack

[Wensleydale]

I understand that the gendarmerie are more interesting in confiscating all satnavs that have the capability to hold speed camera positions - even if you have the function disabled. (And woe betide if you don't have a hi-viz vest in the car cabin).

[500N]

Wensley

"(And woe betide if you don't have a hi-viz vest in the car cabin)."

I carry one in the pocket on the back of the drivers seat,
always handy if needed.

Why don't they like them in the car cabin ?

And what do you do if you have an estate / Station wagon ?

[Mad_Mark]

500N, I suggest you re-read what was written...

(And woe betide if you don't have a hi-viz vest in the car cabin) {my bold}

Hi-viz vests for all occupants must be carried in the car cabin and within reach without getting out of the vehicle. The reason being that if you have to stop at the side of a main road (e.g. breakdown) all occupants of the vehicle MUST put on a hi-viz before getting out of the vehicle.

Who said the French were not into Elfen Saftea?


MadMark!!! :mad:

[500N]

Mad Mark

Thanks, I should have read it !

[Basil]

the Frogs won't like you
I'd be more concerned about Brits.
Drove a French reg car into the UK one evening recently and was assailed by some English oiks pulling alongside to stbd and shouting 'Froggie' comments.
I was on the wrong side to provide a riposte in Jockinese :}

[teeteringhead]

Modern army regiments - eg the Chav Cav - don't once around with swords AAC - formed in 1955 - swords and spurs.

"once around"??? Is someone taking the p ..........:D:D:D:D

complete with the rather ridiculous Busby, ... which I think was designed as a loose symbolic representation of a flying helmet!

So perhaps Trim Stab is right! Well if they must insist on dressing up, how about leather hat and goggles?

[Ken Scott]

So perhaps Trim Stab is right!

Please, no, don't encourage him or he might come back.