Canadian Sea Kings grounded

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Four months after the head of Canada¹s air force expressed his utmost confidence in the Sea King helicopter, the military has grounded the aircraft indefinitely.

Sea King helicopters grounded after new accident (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/King+helicopters+grounded+after+accident/8666657/story.html)

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

At least noone was hurt. Will be interesting to hear exactly what happened in due course...

[espresso drinker]

They could do with a replacement by now :E

[twisted wrench]

They would have there replacements Cyclones if Sikorsky meet there contract to supply by 2009. Still not meeting contract specifications is the reason for delay to deliver.

[helihub]

Maybe they should consider AW101s instead of S92s? :ok:

[Thomas coupling]

For a start they aren't Sea Kings! They are S61's......
To be precise they are Ch124's but they are identical in 99% of the case to an S61.
Secondly - so what if they "tipped forward" ...could have been the pilot!!!
Anyone out there know what happened?

CH148 a long long long way off and Sikorski must be haemorrhaging money.

[Cyclic Hotline]

They are Sikorsky Sea-Kings. (CH-124)

They were manufactured by Sikorsky, in Canada, and are 100% based on the SH-3. They have nothing in common with the commercial S61, other than being a military variant of the same basic platform. There are lots of interchangeable designs, parts and systems between the H-3 series and S61, but they are not the same aircraft.

Closer examination will reveal they have;
T-58 engines
24000 Series Main Transmission
Folding Rotor Head (and applicable metal blades)
Short tail pylon (and applicable tail rotor blades)
Short airframe
Small sponsons

:)

[John Eacott]

For a start they aren't Sea Kings! They are S61's......
To be precise they are Ch124's but they are identical in 99% of the case to an S61.

Oh dear. TC, you really need to research and understand the Sikorsky S61/Sea King history before you insert those size 12s :rolleyes:

[HeliHenri]

.

And if the commander of the RCAF talks about Sea King, maybe we can consider that he is right ... ;)

Rule number one : the chief is always right !

.

[Thomas coupling]

I stand corrected - sincere apologies.

Perhaps I should have been more succinct:
There are 2 SeaKings in the world:
Sikorsky and Westland.

These two versions are like chalk and cheese is what I should have said.

The differences are (to name a few) with engines/electrics/governors/dimensions/gearbox.

Would still love to know why the cab "tipped forward". Unless the pilot did it it can surely only be a runaway fwd in pitch?

[Cyclic Hotline]

Absolutely no need to apologize... :8

There are actually four series of Sea-Kings in the World. Sikorsky is the original, and the other three are licence built variants. Westland, Agusta and Mitsubishi all built significant numbers of this great aircraft under licence.

Tipping forward?

Too much fuel or personnel forward, not enough aft
Brakes seizing (common post maintenance item)
Taxiing (and stopping) with a significant tailwind
Pothole, drain or other ground hazard
Releasing cyclic with trim turned off
SAS or servo runaway
Mixing unit bellcrank or component failure
Flight control failure or interference (like tail wheel lock cable in flight controls)
Flight control hardware failure or lack of safety causing loss of flight control integrity
Something completely new that hasn't been seen before!

[HeliStudent]

Cyclic Hotline, thank you for clarifying the situation between the versions of Sea King.

Are there really differing dimensions between the Sikorsky, Westland, Agusta and Mitsubishi built versions?

[Thomas coupling]

Cyclic, were you CAF: when and where?

What was the Agusta version? Tell me more.........

[Grenville Fortescue]

Some people still believe the name "Sea King" was given to this aircraft by Westland. It was not. The Sea King was named Sea King by Sikorsky.

Boeing would go on to name their next naval helicopter (a year after the introduction of the Sea King) the Sea Knight/CH-46.

What was the Agusta version?

The Sea King - built by Agusta, see here (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Italy---Air/Agusta-SH-3D-TS-Sea/2184868/L/&sid=6d315dcc812413bc9c8dbcb868318504). It was used to fly the Pope until the introduction of the AW139.

Designation Agusta-Sikorsky SH-3D

[ericferret]

Agusta built a civil version the "Silver" I don't think there were any takers and it stayed in the prototype form.

[Grenville Fortescue]

S-61 Silver was a totally different project.

SH-3D (built by Agusta) additionally served the Italian Navy and was also bought by the Iranian Navy and Iraqi Air Force.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Basic dimensions for all of the Sea-King variants started out exactly the same. The SH-3H upgraded model utilizes a 4 inch longer tail pylon, permitting the use of the longer tail rotor blades, thus improving tail rotor performance just like the commercial S61N model.

The HH-3E (S61R) is a slighty longer airframe than the H-3, and is the basic design for the current "stretch" SH-3 (prospective S61T) because all the parts like flight controls, etc, already exist.

The commercial S61N and S61L both had stretched airframes, with plugs behind the cockpit, to provide more cabin space, and a range of cargo or airstair door configurations, but more importantly to remedy a serious aft C of G limitation with the basic design. The "L" model had the same short tail pylon as the H-3, whereas the "N" model had a longer pylon, and various changes to the tail rotor drive-train and stabilizer.

I was never CAF, but am intimately familiar with all variants. :)

The basic Agusta versions were straight licence built Sikorsky SH-3D models, and everything on them is identical to a Sikorsky built model. Agusta also built a large number of HH-3 models. Agusta's licence territory covered Southern Europe, North Africa, Middle East and South America. Many remain in service.

Concur with the naming convention of the US Navy helicopters - the basic protocol originated with the Navy (same for the Army with Native American tribes).

The Agusta S61N1 Silver was a short S61 (SH-3D length) commercial S61N helicopter. The timing was wrong; if they had started building them 5 years earlier and incorporated some significant upgrades, it would probably have been a raging success - but they didn't. Two helicopters were ever built and both were sold to, and are still operated by the Royal Malaysian Air Force.

:8

[fijdor]

S61R Serial Number 001 up in the high Artic in 2009

JD

Gno6p7_PTm8

[Heli-News]

The Canadian military has released photographs taken after a Sea King helicopter tipped forward and smashed its five rotor blades on the tarmac at Canadian Forces Base Shearwater in Halifax.

No one was hurt in Monday's incident, which led to indefinite grounding of the Sea King fleet.


http://www.cbc.ca/photos/galleries/4697/4697_76574_web_8column.jpg

The first photograph taken at night shows the helicopter laying on its left side with its tail rotor laying on the right side of the tarmac. Courtesy Department of National Defence

http://www.cbc.ca/photos/galleries/4697/4697_76575_web_8column.jpg

The second photograph taken during daytime shows a rear view of the helicopter. Courtesy Department of National Defence


On Tuesday the wing commander at the base, Lieutenant-Colonel James Hawthorne, said the taxiing chopper tipped forward causing each of the 10-metre blades to break into pieces of flying debris that dented walls and broke glass on surrounding buildings.

Investigators from the military's directorate of flight safety are continuing to conduct a technical assessment of the incident.


Photos show crashed Sea King helicopter - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/07/18/ns-seaking-photos-crash.html)

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

At least it's not the Waterbird...

[Cyclic Hotline]

I would start with the airframe and sponson attachments of that left sponson!:uhoh:

[JohnDixson]

Brought back memories Fijdor:

Joining Sikorsky in 1966 , that ship was our chase/ rescue aircraft, having been built for the USAF competition that resulted in the CH-3C. That machine actually was FAA certified ( USAF requirement ). At the time it had sponsons and the aux xmsn lube system. We sold it Grumman for their F-14 program chase and then it went to Carson. Lost track of it after that. Not exactly a spring chicken, but a good flying machine. I remember when we first taxied the initial S-92 around, it immediately brought back recollections of this machine. Thanks for the clip.

[fijdor]

Here are a little bit more about it. Photo taken before the sponsons were taken off.
This machine being THE one #001, two more FAA certified S61R were built and all the subsequent ones were HH3's. I was told only #1 and #3 are still flying.
The sponsons were taken off, Carson blades were put on and we used it for work (Vert Ref) I just loved to fly this Aircraft. I went to the North Pole, the True one with it, (well, really close to it anyway, she can add that to her history) APU on it (none on the N model) was our Savior a couple times.

JD


http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv196/jacdor/N664Y-1.jpg

[Heli-News]

HALIFAX -- Canada's fleet of aging Sea King helicopters is being allowed into the air again after one was damaged this week.

The Royal Canadian Air Force grounded the fleet after one Sea King helicopter tipped forward and smashed its rotor blades on the tarmac at CFB Shearwater in Halifax.

The air force released a statement on Friday saying that there are no airworthiness issues affecting the other Sea Kings.

"Our confidence in the Sea King remains high and our crew members are looking forward to resuming the many important missions they conduct every day," Lt.-Col. James Hawthorne, Commander of 12 Wing Shearwater, said in the statement.


Sea King helicopters cleared to fly after grounding | CTV News (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/sea-king-helicopters-cleared-to-fly-after-grounding-1.1375552)

[Back door]

Me thinks the grand ole girl will be around for a few more years...lets hope! :D

Canada Refuses To Accept Sikorsky Helos | Defense News | defensenews.com (http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130720/DEFREG02/307200005/Canada-Refuses-Accept-Sikorsky-Helos) :ooh:

[Thomas coupling]

Seems to suggest pilot error therefore?

[Thone1]

Strange mishap.

A German Sea King once got it´s blades to hit the sand filter, but tipping over so that the blades hit the ground looks like a hydraulic servo malfunction to me... :confused:
Maybe together with a tailwind, simultaneous braking and or a slight nose down attitude?
A runaway in the pitch or roll channel is manageable on the ground due to the limited authority. And why should the trim be switched off?

Tom

[Harry the Hun]

Hmm, maybe the tail wheel exploded? :-)
Or the fat crew chief came up front again?

[Heli-News]

Bells toll in Halifax for lost Sea King crews

http://media.winnipegfreepress.com/images/HAL101_20130730119641_high.jpg

A Canadian soldiers jumps into Halifax harbour from a Sea King helicopter as he participates in advanced amphibious training from the Shearwater Jetty in Halifax on Tuesday, July 30, 2013. The soldiers are working to qualify as Patrol Pathfinders, specialists in deploying in hostile environments.

HALIFAX - Former pilot Norm Lovitt says he felt grateful Thursday to hear memorial bells toll for friends who died unsung deaths flying the Sea King helicopters during the Cold War.

Lovitt, 66, came from Tsawwassen, B.C., to Halifax for a ceremony that commemorated the 50th anniversary of the aircraft and formally recognized Cold War naval aviation as a period of national historic significance.

"It's so gratifying to see that these people have been remembered as they should have been," he said.

Bells toll in Halifax for the Sea King crew members who died in crashes, mishaps - Winnipeg Free Press (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/military-to-formally-mark-the-sea-kings-50-years-of-service-in-halifax-217879371.html)

[MLHeliwrench]

Official Navy Sea King 50th Anniversary Video

Sea King 50th Anniversary Tribute on Vimeo

:)