Aircrew Training in Rhodesia

[M-62A3]

There is a fascinating and long running thread on the PPRuNe Military Aircrew Forum which was started about 5 years ago entitled "Gaining An RAF's Pilots' Brevet in WWII". There have been many informative reminiscences by RAF airmen trained in the UK and the USA, etc. Sadly there are fewer of those men around now and naturally the thread has progressed onto post war airmen's experiences. Despite hundreds of posts no one appears to have step forward with their experiences wartime flying training in Rhodesia.

The Rhodesian Air Training Group operated from 1940 until 1954 training, mainly pilots, but also Navigators, Bomb Aimers and Gunners up to April 1945.

To quote Wikipedia:
"The trainees came mainly from Great Britain but also from Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand, USA, Yugoslavia, Greece, France, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, Fiji and Malta. There were also pupils from the Royal Hellenic Air Force in training. Over 7,600 pilots and 2,300 navigators were trained by the RATG during the war."

The aircraft used in this scheme were similar trainer types to those most common in the wartime flying schools around the British Isles, i.e., Tiger Moth, Harvard, Oxford and Anson , but with one stranger to these shores, the Fairchild Cornell in use from late 1943 to 1946.

One of the Air-Britain quarterly house journals is currently publishing a series on the RATG 1940/54. The series author is Dave Newnham but I am assisting him in the collection of Cornell data which has proved sadly brief from the usual RAF records. The copies/scans from logbooks of the RATG students and their flying instructors are now the best sources for our research.

Though I am specifically interested in the RATG Cornells, I know Dave would welcome all RATG logbooks - covering which ever type, school or period.

I would like to ask any former RATG students and Instructors, or their descendents, if they can help would they kindly contact me through this forum.

Thank you, M-62A3

[old,not bold]

I can't quite quote personal experiences; however my father was an instructor at No 20 SFTS Cranborne from July 1940 to October 1942, mainly teaching navigation to pilots from the back seat of a Harvard, as far as I can tell.

Was that part of the "RATG"?

Other aircraft he got his hands on in that period were DH Rapide, Oxford, Junkers 52 (how?/why?), Anson and Audax. And DH82, of course, if only for what seem to be jollies with his best friend.

Nearly all the Harvard sorties were "P/Nav test". I'm guessing that the names entered as P2 must be a roll call of students at 20 SFTS.

The Anson sorties were "Astro Practice", with Self as P2.

If anyone wants to see if a name/aircraft number appears, let me know. I don't guarantee to respond quickly, but I probably will eventually.

[Fareastdriver]

There was a thread on Thornhill in Rhodesia a few years ago.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/454937-raf-funerals-earlier-era.html

[M-62A3]

old, not bold,
Thank you for the reply.

Yes indeed, No.20 S.F.T.S. at Cranborne was part of the Rhodesian Air Training Group. I am sure Dave and I would find your father's log book entries very valuable to the project.

Ju52 - very intriguing. Perhaps a captured example or one of the eleven that were operated pre-war by South African Airways and taken over by the SAAF in 1940

If you are able to receive private messages via this forum I will try and contact you that way.

All the best, M-62A3

[M-62A3]

Fareastdriver,
Thank you for the link to the Thornhill thread. There are some interesting tales and some very sad Harvard accident photos.

One aspect of the RATG Cornell data I have not been able to access are the accident summaries. The RAF Museum archive has microfilmed copies of the F.1180s, which are cards recording brief aircraft accident details. The files at Hendon include the Fairchild PT-26 Cornell accident cards from India and those of the Fairchild PT-19s at No.3 BFTS in Oklahoma - but none from Rhodesia.
All the best, M-62A3

[Warmtoast]

One of the best known personalities to be trained on Cornells with the Rhodesian Air Training Group (RATG) during the war is Tony Benn. Tony Benn was Labour MP for Bristol South-East for 31 years and in 1943 joined the R.A.F. for training as a pilot.

He was posted to Southern Rhodesia for pilot training and the entry below is for 14th June 1944, the day of his first solo in a Cornell PT-26 trainer at No. 26 EFTS Guinea Fowl not far from Gweru (Gwelo) in the middle of the colony.


Wednesday 14 June 1944

At six this morning Crownshaw told me to get into 322 straightaway, a PT-26 Cornell trainer. I apologised to him for boobing the check yesterday and he remarked thet were really only nominal things and that they didn’t really matter.

We taxied on to the tarmac and I got out and walked back with Crownshaw. He said we’d just have a cigarette and then go up again. I was very surprised, but put it down to a desire on his part to finish me off ready for another check tomorrow. However, we took off, did a circuit or maybe two, and then as we taxied up to the take-off point, he said to me, ‘Well, how do you feel about your landings?’ I replied, ‘Well, that’s really for you to say, sir.’ He chuckled. ‘I think you can manage one solo,’ he said. ‘I’m going to get out now and I’ll wait here for you,’ he went on.

So this was it, I thought. The moment I had been waiting for came all of a sudden just like that. ‘OK, sir,’ I replied. ‘And don’t forget that you’ve got a throttle,’ he said. ‘Don’t be frightened to go round again -OK? And by the way,’ he added -he finished locking the rear harness and closing the hood, then came up to me, leant over and shouted in my ear, ‘you do know the new trimming for taking off?’ ‘Yes, sir,’ I replied, and he jumped off the wing and walked over to the boundary with his ‘chute.

I was not all that excited. I certainly wasn’t frightened and I hope I wasn’t over-confident but I just had to adjust my mirror so that I could really see that there was no one behind me.

Then I remembered my brother Mike’s words: ‘Whatever you do don’t get over-confident; it is that that kills most people and I only survived the initial stages through being excessively cautious.’ So I brought my mind back to the job, checked the instruments, looked all around and when we had reached 500 feet began a gentle climbing turn. It was very bumpy and the wind got under my starboard wing and tried to keel me over, but I checked it with my stick and straightened out when my gyro compass read 270 degrees. Then I climbed to 900, looked all round and turned again on to the down-wind leg. By the time I’d finished that turn we were at 1,000 feet, so I throttled back, re-trimmed, got dead on 180 and I felt pretty good about things.

I thought I was a little high as I crossed the boundary so I eased back to 800 rpm, and as I passed over, I distinctly saw Crownshaw standing watching where I had left him. Now we were coming in beautifully and I eased the stick and throttle back. A quick glance at the ground below showed me to be a little high, so I left the stick as it was, gave a tiny burst of engine and as we floated down I brought both back fully. We settled, juddered and settled again for a fair three-pointer.

I was as happy as could be. I taxied up, stopped and braked. Try as I did, I couldn’t restrain the broad grin which gripped me from ear to ear and Crownshaw, seeing it, leant over before he got in and said ironically with a smile, ‘Happy now?’

I was more than happy, I was deliriously carefree, and as he taxied her back I thought about it all and realised that the success of my first solo was entirety due to the fine instruction I had received; it was a tribute to the instruction that I never felt nervous once, and all the time had imagined what my instructor would be saying, so used had I got to doing everything with him behind me. We climbed out, and attempting to restrain my happiness I listened while he told me where and what to sign. Then I wandered back to my billet and one of the greatest experiences of my life was behind me. The lectures were pretty ordinary, and it being my free afternoon I had a bit of lemonade in the canteen and wrote this


His diaries can be viewed online here:
The Benn Diaries: 1940-1990 - Tony Benn - Google Books (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LdCp8S5XK9wC&pg=PA382&lpg=PA382&dq=tony+benn+%2B+Rhodesia&source=bl&ots=yWxmBF6IeM&sig=dHT5KlsebAf3N2UyO7b_Oyn1EBM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=A7_lUdDEIoGH0AWKh4HgBw&ved=0CHEQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=tony%20benn%20%2B%20Rhodesia&f=false)

[megabyte]

My websites on RAF Training in In Rhodesia and Florida may be of interest:

RAF EFTS RHODESIA (http://www.ianmeredith.com/raf_africa/EFTS_africa.htm)

RAF in the USA : Florida (http://www.ianmeredith.com/page_america/raf_america.htm)

The former has helped put people back in touch after 50 years or more and answered questions for many. Sadly man of the people I have spoken with over the last decade have passed on, but equally it is often the family who get in touch.

The site tries not to simply repeat other main sources such as Wiki but to provide a different perspective with anecdote where possible.

Both sites have been neglected a while in the last year and I know have some broken links.

Please let me know if you encounter such and I will address that so that the missing content is restored.

( The Rhodeisan Site in mid make-over ( being done live) so the older 'Main site' ( click the header) has more info and probably fewer breaks and typos - but looks rather old fashioned in web terms.

Ian

[M-62A3]

Warmtoast,
Thank you for the post relating to Tony Benn. I spent sometime reading through the pages made available by Google Books.

It would be interesting to see his log book but I believe he is not to well at present (cancelled appearances).

David Williams (one time Secretery of the Spitfire Society) and the late S/Ldr K.R. "Jacko" Jackson (BBMF and much else) kindly sent me transcripts of their 25 EFTS logbook entries some years ago.

I recall the recently desceased Bill Giunston once wrote an article about his time in the RATG. I think he was there as things were being cut back severely in late 1945/46 and seemed to have spent some of his time dismantling stored and unused Cornells fresh out of their shipping crates.
M-62A3

[M-62A3]

megabyte,
What an excellent set of RATG photographs.
Thank you for posting. I have to admit I had not seen your website before.
5 BFTS site also very interesting.

Will be in touch, M-62A-3

[Warmtoast]

I recall the recently deceased Bill Gunston once wrote an article about his time in the RATG. I think he was there as things were being cut back severely in late 1945/46 and seemed to have spent some of his time dismantling stored and unused Cornells fresh out of their shipping crates.

Bill Gunston was ex-Technical Editor of Flight magazine and author of more than 300 books, he was born in 1927 and prided himself as being a DOPE cadet (in for the Duration Of the Present Emergency). I wonder if this is the article you referred to?


‘I remember the thrill I felt when I read in Flight just after VJ-day that future aircrew training would be carried out in Southern Rhodesia. The dream came true. I became part of No. 1 Course, and we sailed from Tilbury aboard the troopship Chitral on 29 November 1946. We docked at Durban on Christmas Day, to find ourselves surrounded by things totally unfamiliar: hot sunshine, giant fruit sundaes, cigarettes in boxes of 50 (price is 3d), flashy American cars, electric shavers, colour film and modern 35 mm cameras, fresh or canned fruit, chocolate, and more liquor than we could take. Austere post-war Britain was 8,012 miles away, and it seemed like it.

‘After two days in trains we unloaded at Bulawayo, spent a day or two at RAF Station Kumalo and then a week or two at 4 FTS, Heany. During the war the Rhodesian Air Training Group had grown to include 15 airfields, using de Havilland Tiger Moths and Fairchild Cornells for elementary pilot training, and Avro Ansons and Airspeed Oxfords for twin-engine qualification and, especially, for training navigators. The RATG and SRAF headquarters was at Cranbourne, outside Salisbury.

‘Along with the rest of what had become the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, the RATG was shut down after VE-day, the stations being put on a Care & Maintenance basis. But the incoming post-war government decided to reopen three stations as the RATW. I would not presume to know the reasons, though obviously the weather was far better than in the UK, and probably overall costs would be lower. The three stations were: Kumalo, HQ and wing admin; Heany, No. 4 FTS; and Thornhill, 5 FTS.

‘After the short spell at Heany about half No. 1 Course, myself included, got back on a train and arrived at Gwelo. This pleasant town was the capital of the Midlands, with Matabeleland on one side and Mashonaland on the other. Today it is called Gweru, and is quite a big city, but 45 years ago Gwelo was a small chessboard of straight streets with one or two substantial buildings and a much larger collection of single-storey shops and dwellings mostly of corrugated iron. It had the air of a Western frontier town, but we loved it. The amazing width of the main streets was explained to us: before the age of the car the streets had to be wide enough to turn a wagon with a long team of oxen.

‘A mile or two outside the town was RAF Thornhill. Its layout followed a familiar pattern. The straight road ran past the guardroom at the main gate. Entering the station, you soon came to a roundabout, with SHQ facing you on the far side and the flag mast in the centre of the grass circle. From this point the station’s built-up area was arranged in concentric semi-circles. Around the outside edge were the four pairs of giant hangars. The latter were of T2 type, but with a row of windows on each side. They were of silver corrugated steel, and so was virtually every other building on the station; I can’t recall a single thing made of brick or wood. Everyone knows the old saying, “If it moves, salute it; if it doesn’t move, paint it white”. This applied to the RATW 100 per cent. Post-war bull**** ruled the day, and the entire station was lined with many hundreds of white-painted rocks. But no problem; this was nothing compared with No. 1 Aircrew Officers’ School at Hereford, which many of us had survived.
‘The AOC of the RATW was Air Commodore G. G. Banting. He was a Grade A1 flying instructor, and he certainly impressed me. We would have seen little of him, but one day another cadet and I happened to meet him in Salisbury. We were in civvies, but he knew who we were instantly, grilled us at great length and put right most of our many beefs almost overnight. Station Commander was Group Captain F. W. Stannard, a no-nonsense cigar-smoker who looked and acted the part, though I suspect the Adjutant, Flt/Lt Hagger, did the routine work. CFI was Wg Cdr Dennis Weston-Birt, who probably wished he was back busting Panzers in the Western Desert as CO of 6 Squadron. SAdO was Wg Cdr E. L. A. Walter, the most hirsute man I ever met; hair bushed out from his cuffs. He was a fitness fanatic, and was heartily disgusted to find hardly anyone on the station who was eager to spend his spare time boxing.

‘The instructors, whom it was my privilege later to join, were naturally ex-operational types who in some cases regarded the job as a chore to be suffered for a short time until their number for release came up. The erks, a splendid lot, were almost all ex-Palestine or Egypt. We soon learned that the truck taking those off duty into Gwelo each evening was actually “a gharry”. And, incidentally, I never found one who didn’t wish he was back in the Middle East.

‘Like most of Southern Africa, Southern Rhodesia is on a high plateau. Though more than 1,000 ft lower than Jo’burg, Thornhill was still 4,680 ft up, so a Tiger was getting on for half-way to its ceiling before we took off. We began on Tigers, and because most of us had already done lots of “gash” flying we soloed pretty quickly. Ian Stebbings made it in 3 hours, and I took 4 hr 50 min. I am sure we had no “washouts”. It was a difficult period for the Air Force but we were lucky in getting plenty of flying in mainly glorious weather with no prospect of being shot at. The very fact that the war was over removed from most of us our reason for being in uniform. Many cadets, especially the navigators, were mature chaps—real oldies, over 25—who had been through the war in ground trades, re-mustered as aircrew and, from 1944 onwards, had spent their time mowing lawns and cleaning out latrines, in between fierce kit inspections and staying up half the night varnishing the coal in the mirror-like scuttles and polishing the soles of their boots. As for the instructors, most were simply counting the days.

‘Half the time, classroom lessons were made up on the spot. F/O Johnson, a nav instructor, thought one day he’d teach us about map grid references. Then he called a cadet out to demonstrate. “Bich” Pope strode up to the blackboard and quickly drew a map and a grid, with the letters QO, RO, SO, TO, etc, and TA, TB, TC, etc. Marking a point, he said, “This is grid reference ROTB 1947.” The whole class was convulsed, because this was a belligerent chant heard day and night, ROTB standing for “Roll on the boat” (to take chaps back to Blighty).

‘Somewhere in between we did a lot of things. When we arrived, our khaki drill shorts reached to our knees, but having seen the vast expanse of bronzed thigh and leg exposed by the local white Rhodesians, we soon cut 10 in off. We got on well with half the locals, though I recall we had an official complaint from the Gwelo Rugby Club who couldn’t take the RAF team’s brandy-soaked breath (this on Sunday mornings, mark you). The other half, of Afrikaner origin, had lain low during the war, but now they came out looking for trouble, and the young ones—locally called Yarpis—caused fights in the town almost every night. Down the road was a town reputed to be 100 per cent Boer—Enkeldoorn—and we were told if we went there we would be unlikely to come back. We didn’t test the belief. On the other hand the congregation of St Cuthbert’s, Gwelo, included several hospitable Afrikaner families who found the aggro embarrassing.

‘We also rehabilitated the station itself, and in our spare time uncrated 115 Cornells, took out the map cases with beautifully hinged lids, which could serve many purposes, and then sledge hammered them into pieces small enough to be loaded into trucks. The Lend-Lease Act precluded their post-war use, and the USA didn’t want them back. We also played a lot of water polo, built a theatre in a hangar, and built dozens of giant flying models powered by Ohlsson petrol engines bought from a shop of the Das Brothers (we’d never seen such things before). In odd moments we learned to fly Harvards. One day two Spitfire IXs arrived with officers of the SAAF who promised us what sounded like an air marshal’s pay, but I don’t think they got many takers. Several of us, me included, though totally unqualified as instructors, stayed on to help teach No. 3 course. I can only remember one prang in two years. S/L Hyland-Smith, a brilliant aerobatic pilot, got caught in a whirling dust devil as he practised his routine in a Tiger for a forthcoming air show. He lay encased in plaster in Gwelo hospital, where the nurses spent much of their time rolling him over to see what we had written on him.

‘Southern Rhodesia obviously has many happy memories for me. The RATW was finally closed in March 1954. Subsequently, Thornhill was to go through dark days in which white Zimbabwe AF officers were tortured during investigations into sabotage of Hawk jet trainers. I hope that by now they have got their act together.’

[M-62A3]

Warmtoast,
Thank you, yes I am sure that must have been the article. Where was it published - Aeroplane Monthly perhaps?

I am sure some RAF clerk must have made a record of which Cornells were scrapped as described, but I suspect that has not survived either.
M-62A3

[canberrasig]

My late father, Bernard Sheehan did his pilot training in Rhodesia in the latter years of WWII before moving on to 79 and 34 Sqn's flying the P.47 Thunderbolt in Burma, I'd be happy to scan the relevant pages from his log books if they are of interest?

John

[Warmtoast]

M-62A3

Thank you, yes I am sure that must have been the article. Where was it published - Aeroplane Monthly perhaps?


I just can't remember, but as I'm always interested in events at 5 FTS (RAF Thornhill) in the early 1950's I squirreled it away when I saw as being of interest to me as another view of RAF service life in the colony.

Please check your PM's

WT

[M-62A3]

canberrasig,
Yes, please.
I will send you a PM via this forum and then we can exchange e-mail addresses.
Thank you foir replying, M-62A3.

[canberrasig]

Yes sure, I'll get that sorted as soon as I can

John

[canberrasig]

This is a model of one of the Harvard's he flew whilst training in Rhodesia.
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af35/canberra-sig/Aircraft%20photos/DSC01801.jpg
John

[M-62A3]

After looking through the 20 SFTS log book from John and seen the photo of his model, the serial no. EX405 rang some distant bells.

Well over fifteen years ago I copied the log book and the photos of one first Fairchild Cornell veterans I met. He had done his advanced training at 20 SFTS and his photos include some of the school's Harvards. I assumed at the time that he, or one of his colleagues, had taken the pictures but having seen some very similar published since I now wonder they were publicity photos made available to the students.

The two images below relate to Harvards that appear in Bernard Sheenan's log. I have e-mailed copies to John and on reflection thought they might be of interest here.
M-62A3

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a552/CABroadhurst/EX405_zps8da30052.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/CABroadhurst/media/EX405_zps8da30052.jpg.html)http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a552/CABroadhurst/EX378_zpse916788a.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/CABroadhurst/media/EX378_zpse916788a.jpg.html)

[canberrasig]

Fantastic photos! I wish my old man was still around to see them. Thanks for posting
John

[babil]

Hi
I was one of the many pilots trained post war at RAF Heany (4 FTS) I was on No.8 Course (August 1948 to December 1949) - I'm not sure what information you are looking for, but I can answer any questions you may have (given my advanced age (84) I can't promise to be absolutely accurate!!!).

[M-62A3]

Hello babil,
Thank you for replying to my forum enquiry.

The original purpose of my request was to contact the holders of RATG log books and photographs, etc., in the hope of having the documents copied for continuing research. These personal records can add to the details (and in some cases the lack of detail) obtainable from the various formal records, such as Operations Record Books and aircraft movement cards.

Despite the end of hostilities and Lend-Lease funding the training of RAF pilots continued in Rhodesia until 1954. As yet I have not seen any log books from Heany during the period you were there.

Would I be right in assuming you flew Harvards and possibly Ansons or Oxfords at Heany during 1948/49?
Did you attend both Elementery and Service schools in Rhodesia?
May I contact you through the forum's private message system?
Thank you, M-62A3

[l.garey]

M-62A3: I have a friend who was at 33 Flying Instructor School at Norton in 1944. I have his logbook details: Cornell, Harvard, Oxford, Tiger Moth. I am just waiting to get his approval, after which I can publish them on the thread if they are of interest.

[M-62A3]

l.garey,
Thank you, your offer is much appreciated. I hope it will meet with your friend's approval as the details from his log book would be of great interest to me.

No.33 FIS's diary records that the unit was renamed the Central Flying School, S. Rhodesia in May 1944. This must indicate the significant role the school came to play within the Rhodesian Air Training Group.
M-62A3

[l.garey]

Yes, that was just after my friend's departure from Norton. He then went on to instruct on RAAF Liberators.

Laurence

[l.garey]

My friend, Tony Tubbenhauer, RAAF, after flying Blenheims with 244 Squadron at Sharjah in 1942 and Baltimores with 203 in North Africa 1942 to 1943, was posted to 33 FIS, Norton, from January to March 1944. He has agreed for me to use data from his logbook, of which I have a copy.
He flew:
Cornells (which kept their Canadian serials) 15073, 15097, 15105, 15114, 15121, 15131, 15133
Oxfords X7317, BM170, BM827, BM785 plus others for which he only wrote the last three and which I have not yet tied to the full serial (maybe someone can identify them) 170, 237, 253, 342, 364, 367, 379, 445, 518, 930, 961
Harvard EX165
Tiger Moth DE553

He went on the instruct on Liberators after the war. He is still living actively in Queensland, age 92 tomorrow. Happy Birthday, Tony!

Laurence

[l.garey]

Here are some of Tony's photos at Norton described in my post above.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/apollo-fox/HARVARDNORTONRHODESIA_zps36a8266c.jpg (http://s215.photobucket.com/user/apollo-fox/media/HARVARDNORTONRHODESIA_zps36a8266c.jpg.html)

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/apollo-fox/Harvardbwsmall_zps959a59c6.jpg (http://s215.photobucket.com/user/apollo-fox/media/Harvardbwsmall_zps959a59c6.jpg.html)

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/apollo-fox/CORNELLNORTONSRHODESIAsmall_zps179378a8.jpg

[URL=http://s215.photobucket.com/user/apollo-fox/media/CornellSRhodesiabw_zpsb7d2f05e.jpg.html]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/apollo-fox/CornellSRhodesiabw_zpsb7d2f05e.jpg (http://s215.photobucket.com/user/apollo-fox/media/CORNELLNORTONSRHODESIAsmall_zps179378a8.jpg.html)

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/apollo-fox/OxfordatNortonbwsmall_zps56370618.jpg (http://s215.photobucket.com/user/apollo-fox/media/OxfordatNortonbwsmall_zps56370618.jpg.html)

[M-62A3]

A very Happy Birthday to Tony Tubbenhauer - and grateful thanks from a Pommie.

Thank you to Laurence for posting the serial nos and Tony's magnifcent photographs.

I should be able to post the Oxford serial prefixes later today.

M-62A3

[Exnomad]

My late brother trained Rhodesia, near Bulawayo in 1941 on Oxfords, then did a refresher Near Elgin in Scotland
Strangely enough his next posting was on single engined aircraft at Cranwell.
He did eventually go back on muti engined aircraft on Wellingtons and Lancasters.
I myself did an Oxford course in 1953 at Dalcross

[M-62A3]

Laurence,
Here are the likely Oxford Serials. All these are listed as being delivered to Rhodesia.
BG170, HN237, HN342, BG364, HN367, BG445, HN518, LW930 & EB961.

I was unable to find a definite fit for ??253 & ??379 .

Hope this helps, M-62A

[ericferret]

I have the log books of Ronald Osborne who learnt to fly and spent the war instructing in SR.

[l.garey]

M-62A3: Thanks for the serial tie-ups. I hope you received the copies of Tony's logbook pages showing dates, crew, duties and times that I sent privately.

ericferret: Can you give us some details? Thanks.

Laurence

[M-62A3]

Eric,
Thank you for replying to this RATG thread. I will be very interest in Ronald Osbourne's logbook. Have sent you a PM.
M-62A3

[babil]

Hello M6-2A3
You may contact me via e-mail ([email protected]). I trained on Tiger Moth's and Harvards at 4 FTS Heany - not sure I understand your query about "Elementary and Service Schools" in Rhodesia - I was educated in England and only went to Southern Rhodesia as part of my 20-year RAF service. Maybe you can clarify your query on e-mail?? Awaiting your response.

[M-62A3]

babil,
Having now studied a post war log from 4 FTS I now realise the elementary flying (as it was called in WW.2) on Tiger Moths was being carried at the same location as the advanced stages on Harvard. Previously I had assumed that the two stages were undertaken at seperate schools as had normally been the case until 1947.
M-62A3.

[Fareastdriver]

4 FTS at RAF Heany had Tiger Moths, upgrading to Chipmunks in about 1951, that shared the airfield with Harvards. They overcame the mix in circuit behaviour by using separate relief landing grounds for basic training.
The Harvards used White's Run, a relief landing ground close the Bulawayo-Gwelo road, about five miles north. It was adjacent to Ntabizindula Mission where we lived for a short time.
When dad's Chevrolet was a bit sick he would go down there and be picked up by the morning weather recce aircraft and taken to work.

[Chris Scott]

Thanks for the memories, old codgers. Keep the anecdotes coming. In later years - as a teenager in about 1961 - I was offered a ride in a Tiger Moth by a fellow passenger on a commercial flight, who said he had one at Cranborne. My parents vetoed the idea as far too dangerous...

[ME453]

My father was trained as a pilot in S Rhodesia in 1943/4, on earning his wings he was retained as a flying instructor but then moved to No. 24 BG&NS at Moffat. I have his logbook, many of his notes and his diary plus his photograph album including some overlap aerial photos of Bulawayo for instance.
I'm particularly interested in the Hurricane that he flew on one occasion, he didn't enter its serial number in his logbook though he did put that he did an oxygen climb to 20000'.
I'm very happy to share any of this with anybody who may wish to see it, and to hear from anybody who may be able to shed a little more light on any of the Hurricanes that were part of the RATG.
Max Williams

[Treble one]

A chum of mine was trained in Rhodesia on the last RAF flying course there to use Tiger Moths for EFT. The course after moved on to the Chipmunk.

[Warmtoast]

111

I was stationed at RAF Thornhill (5 FTS) S. Rhodesia arriving there in August 1951. When I arrived Tiger Moths were used for primary training, but starting in September 1951 Chipmunk T.10s started to replace the Tiger Moths at 5 FTS.

5 FTS was allocated 27 Chipmunk T.10s. Built at Hawarden near Chester, they were crated and shipped out to Durban in South Africa and transferred to rail trucks for the journey to 394 MU at RAF Heany near Bulawayo where they were assembled, flight tested and then flown up to Thornhill.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-TigerMoth2.jpg

5 FTS Tiger Moth - Aug - Sept 1951

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Thornhill-Chipmunk.jpg

5 FTS First Chipmunk T.10 arrives - Sept 1951

[Rosevidney1]

The Chipmunk before anti-spin strakes were added.

[Dora-9]

Some of the RATG Chipmunks were never uncrated, and when sold were literally "zero-time" items...

Rose - not just no spin recovery strakes (fitted around 1958), but sporting the narrow chord rudder too - the broad-chord rudder started appearing in 1953.

[Treble one]

Many thanks for the info regarding the Tiger Moth/Chipmunk handover.


I seem to remember my chum saying that the Harvard's had longer propeller blades due to the altitude which meant they made even more of a noise as the tips went supersonic?

[Warmtoast]

111

There was some discussion about the Harvard props going supersonic here on PPRUNE: http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/405410-harvard-texan-prop.html

[Treble one]

Many thanks Warmtoast. An interesting dicussion.

[Warmtoast]

Dora-9

Some of the RATG Chipmunks were never uncrated, and when sold were literally "zero-time" items...


When the Rhodesian Air Training Group closed in October 1953 flying clubs in South Africa and Australia realised that the many surplus RAF Chipmunks now on offer were an economic alternative to the purchase of new aircraft.
Eleven used ex RATG Chipmunks were imported into Australia via South Africa. They proved so popular that when the RAF released further aircraft in 1956, W.S. Shackleton Ltd were appointed to purchase Chipmunks on behalf of the Federation of Australian Aero Clubs. In total some 80 ex-RAF Chipmunks were exported to Australia.

[Dora-9]

Warmtoast - absolutely correct.

Here's VH-AJD, (C1-0446, ex WG357), the very first ex RAF Chipmunk to arrive in Australia. You can still see traces of the fuselage roundel, plus various RAF stencils. It's history is typical of the RATG Chipmunks:

14.8.51 Delivered Chester
15.8.51 Towed across airfield to 47 MU Hawarden, crated
9.10.51 To Birkinhead Docks
13.10.51 Departs on SS Clan McTaggart
2.11.51 Arrives Durban
18.12.51 394 MU Heany
19.6.53 4 FTS Heany
29.10.53 Sold
21.1.54 Registered to the RAC of NSW as VH-AJD
Subsequently it became VH-RSP, -ESP and then -RSP again. The aircraft remains flying (still with a narrow chord rudder and without the strakes), now based at Caloundra Qld.

The point is the Federation of Australian Aero Clubs got an absolute bargain with this one - it was never test flown at Chester, and had never been uncrated before it arrived at Bankstown for the RACNSW, i.e. it had NEVER flown! All this for about a third of the quoted price from DHA for a new Chipmunk Mk.21! Most of the initial ex-RATG Chipmunks to arrive here had around 500 hours, although there were a few others in the "never been uncrated" category.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Blithering/VH-AJDEddieCoatescollection_zps90962047.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/Blithering/media/VH-AJDEddieCoatescollection_zps90962047.jpg.html)

[Dora-9]

Warmtoast - at the risk of being pedantic (who, me?), may add some details please?

Eleven used ex RATG Chipmunks were imported into Australia via South Africa.Initially yes, later no. The original eleven were:

C1-0373 WG314, became VH-WRW
C1-0418 WG328, became VH-RBW
C1-0446 WG357, became VH-AJD, -RSP, -ESP, -RSP
C1-0466 WG393, became VH-CBM, -RSV, -WAU, -AFG, -ZIT
C1-0467 WG394, became VH-RNF
C1-0472 WG398, became VH-RVY
C1-0478 WG404, became VH-REW
C1-0485 WG414, became VH-RVX
C1-0498 WG424, became VH-RVZ, -RTW
C1-0499 WG425, became VH-FTA
C1-0500 WG426, became VH-BNU, -RSR

No less than six of these were in the "never been uncrated" category; the Chipmunks that were to become VH-RVX, -RVY, -RVZ, -BNU, -FTA & -AJD. I still think that the Federation must have collectively wet themselves when they realized what they'd got!

But there two more that were to arrive here indirectly from the RATG:

C1-0438 WG351, initially to Noumea as F-AOAL, then VH-SJD (the very short-lived prototype SA29 "Spraymaster").
C1-0439 WG352, to South Africa as ZS-DIN, then VH-RVJ

Four of these still survive; VH-RSP, -RVY and -RTW still fly in this country, while VH-ZIT was exported to the US.

In total some 80 ex-RAF Chipmunks were exported to Australia.I think you might have to qualify that number as "exported to Australian aero clubs or flying schools"; there have been an additional twenty-seven Chipmunks imported for/by individuals - a significant proportion of these following the 1972, 1994 and 1997 disposals.

Cheers!

[Warmtoast]

Dora-9

Thanks for the details. However my only interest is that I was there in Rhodesia when the RATG closed down in 1953 and read with interest and squirreled away anything about the Group that I read, not because I was keeping detailed tabs on what went where as the Group folded, but because it was something I was interested in and reminded me of happy days in my first overseas posting, with the result that I kept any relevant cuttings as they appeared in the press.

[Dora-9]

Warmtoast: Thanks, as you probably gathered my main interest is the Chipmunk in Australia!

An RATG question, please - where is/was Heany? I've searched around Bulawayo with Google Earth and can only locate the current Bulawayo Airport. Was this Heany?

[Fareastdriver]

Heany is 081 degrees 20 kilometres from Bulawayo city centre. The hangers and buildings are in a semicular shape but the runways are overgrown.
After 4 FTS left it was taken over by the Rhodesian Army and named Llewellan Barracks. It was the depot of the Royal Rhodesia Regiment which had the national service battalions.
I lived in a brand new married quarter immediately North East of Heany as a kid and later did my Rhodesian National Serive (four months training, two years weekend camps) at Llewellan Barracks.
The buildings on the road just before you reach Heany were the barracks and married quarters for the 2nd Batt. Rhodesian African Rifles. They were all from the Matebele tribe. The 1st Batt. was near Salisbury (Harare) who were Shona.
The two battalions were never allowed within twenty miles of each other.

[mustpost]

My father learned in Rhodesia, did his tour in the Middle East, then returned to instruct. I've already made contact with someone here who flew with him at Moffat; in the course of my search I found this site which may be of interest...

Our Rhodesian Heritage - The Story of Royal Air Force Station Moffat
(just cut and paste this into search engine)

[Dora-9]

Fareastdriver:

Found it! Thanks.

You weren't kidding about the runway(s) being overgrown - maybe, like Thornhill, initially an overall field with a runway added later? The configuration is remarkably similar between the two.

[Warmtoast]

Fareastdriver

After 6 FTS left

4 FTS was at Heany, whilst 5 FTS was located at Thornhill near Gwelo (Gweru) in the centre of the colony.

Thornhill's runway in 1951 - 53 was of rolled earth (Laterite).

Thornhill in 1952
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Image5-1.jpg

and from Google Earth

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Thornhill/Image6.jpg

[dasa]

Greetings all,

In January 2013 I helped some Air Britain members with locating GPS co-ordinates for RATG bases.

I was helped by having aerial images of all but one of the bases - Norton

Does anyone have an aerial photograph of RATG Norton please?

I am trying to find its exact GPS co-ordinates.

Do any of the RATG related hangars or buildings at Norton survive?

Below are GPS details for the bases I have found.

Belvedere, Salisbury -17°50'07.91" +31°01'01.88" Red roof building here
Cranborne, Salisbury -17°51'5.15" +31° 4'19.92" Old Hangars still there
Guinea Fowl, Gwelo -19° 31' 38.53", +29° 56' 8.15" Old building still there
Heany, Bulawayo -20° 7' 45.24", +28° 46' 9.70" Old building still there
Induna, Bulawayo -20° 06' 18.29", +28° 41' 51.83" Old building red roof still there
Kumalo, Bulawayo -20° 8' 24.63", +28° 36' 11.48" Old building still there
Moffat, Gwelo -19° 28' 42.00", +29° 47' 22.19" North East hangar was there
Mount Hampden, Salisbury -17°44'41.57" +30°55'27.73" Old building still there
Norton Salisbury, Exact location unknown.

Thornhill, Gwelo -19°26'48.95" +29°51'15.39" Old building still there

The GPS co-ordinates listed above can be copied and pasted into either Google Maps or Google Earth.

Best wishes for the festive season to you all.

Jaws

John Austin-Williams
+27 (0) 83 459-7802
[email protected]

[Warmtoast]

I've got a descriptive note about the RATG and in it Norton is described as " Norton, the flying instructors’ school (later renamed Central Flying School), thirty miles west of Salisbury. It breathed an atmosphere of its own, rather rarefied and academic, as would be expected of the “University of the Training Group,” where the cream of the pilots were instructing".

It also mentioned that it "was renamed No. 33 Flying Instructor School", but this was during WW2.

A bit of Googling threw up this reference:
http://rhodesianheritage.********.co.uk/search?q=Norton

(substitute b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t without the hyphens for the asterisks)

this link contains a variety of photographs including a 1944 overhead shot that shows its layout in relation to the adjacent roads and railway line.

[jblaverick]

Dear all,

I am writing about the murder of two trainee pilots who got lost from RAF Kumalo in 1943. Having landed on one of the salt pans over the border in Botswana, they met a hunting party of Bushmen who initially gave them food and shelter. However, something went terribly wrong and they were brutally murdered.

I have lots of original documentation, including the court documents, files from the UK national archives, and lots of info and some photos from one of the families involved.

However, I have not been able to find many pics of RATG Oxfords and none at all of Kumalo. If anybody can help, I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Jonathan Laverick

[l.garey]

Jonathan: see my posts starting at no. 21 in this thread about Norton and, among other things its Oxfords, of which I published a photo in post 25.

Laurence

[jblaverick]

Thanks Laurence - I'm afraid that I was including the photo you had posted in my meager collection of 3 RATG Oxfords! It is really appreciated when people take the time to put up memories and pics like that - so thank you!

[l.garey]

OK Jonathan. I'm afraid that this is the only one I have!
I guess you saw the list of Oxford serials in my posts too, but no pictures available! Good hunting. Let me know if you find any more.

Laurence

[RAFDAUGHTER]

My father David R Keiller was posted to Salsibury as a flying instructor in 1941. My mother joined him from the UK in 1941 He was in North Africa beforehand and moved to Bulawayo thence to Durban before returning to the UK in 1944.
My sister was born in Salsibury in 1941 and I Bulawayo 1944, I have several photographs of him and the planes he flew, both from Abu Simnel (where he learned to fly in the 1930's )and Africa. Sadly he died in 1952 from lung cancer after my mother divorced him on returning to the UK
I would love to hear whether anyone knew him or of him as I have very little knowledge about him

[Jerico]

Hi

My father died in May and his logbooks have been passed to me, along with his diaries of the period.

To add to your notes my father was at 28 E.F.T.S Mt Hampden flying Cornells from Sept 1944 - Jan 45, on Course 39c
They mainly seem to have Canadian Reg:
15138,15238,15088,15218,15177,15221,15368,15130,15111,15234, 15180; 15182; 15138; 15171; 15190; 15327; 15118 & 15368. He did his first solo on type on 15368 on 6th Nov 44.

RAF registrations shown in his logbook are

FV567, FV522, FV987; FV564 & FV578

He then went onto 20 SFTS at Cranborne to fly Harvards from Feb 45 - Apr 45 on 51 Course

[M-62A3]

Hello Jerico,
I am sorry to hear your father has died.
Thank you very much for posting the serial nos. of the Cornells he flew at No.28 EFTS. and I have added them to my notes and will incorporate them into my RATG Cornell database.

M-62A3

[Jerico]

Hi M-62A3

In case you are interested the Harvards at Cranbourne were a mixture of RAF Registrations:

AJ664
AJ709
AJ666
AJ746
AJ719
AJ721
AJ707
AJ620
EZ308
EX659
AJ627
EX362 or 302 not sure which
AJ750

Plus several showing the following Registrations:

7095; 7122; 7125;5858; 5945; 7116; 5952; 5960; 5900; 5917 & 7125. Any ideas what these might indicate?

[M-62A3]

7095; 7122; 7125;5858; 5945; 7116; 5952; 5960; 5900; 5917 & 7125. Any ideas what these might indicate?

Hi again Jerico,
Thank you for the Harvard serials.
The above are all Harvard Mk.Is with single letter serial prefixes.
N7095; N7122; N7125; P5858; P5945; N7116; P5952; P5960; P5900; P5917; N7125.

Those with the 'N' prefix and P5858 were delivered first to the UK in 1939, serving at such as No.6 S.F.T.S., Little Rissington before being shipped to Rhodesia in 1940 & '41. The remainder were delivered directly to Rhodesia in 1940.
The Mk.Is had a curved trailing edge to the rudder and most of the RATG survivors were struck off and scrapped in November 1945.

Those with the 'AJ' prefix are Mk.II and those with 'EX' prefix are Mk.IIa. Both models have a more triangular rudder. Most of the Mk.IIs were also struck off in 1945 whereas many of the surviving Mk.IIa's were used post war.

EX302 is currently registered in the UK as G-BICE.

Cheers, M-62A3

[litton92]

Hi, The father of a friend of mine flew a lancaster on one engine (the other three engines feathered) on a flypast at the Kumalo Air display, Bulawayo, on August 2nd 1947. I was wondering if anybody else has any knowledge of this interesting feat!! I have a photograph of the aircraft in flight with three engines feathered on its flypast. Hand written on the back of the photo is: 'Flying on one at 'Kumalo' Air Display 'Bulawayo' Aug 2nd 1947. Aerodrome Height 4600 FEET'

[dasa]

Hi all,

"Norton has been found".

See here http://www.saamuseum.co.za/images/stories/RATG_bases_Rhodesian_Air_Training_Group_web_page.htm

cheers,
Jaws

[John N]

My father trained as a pilot in 1944/45 in Rhodesia. I have a lot of photograhs which may be of interest to others. I would also like to be able to put some detail into captions. Dad never really spoke of those times and the photos have come to light because I have digitised the negatives.

[ME453]

John N, can you contact me via email: maxw467"AT"gmail.com, replacing the "AT" with @ of course! Many thanks - if you don't receive an immediate reply it's probably because I'm away from home for a fortnight and I'm not sure what the internet coverage will be where I'm going in S America.
Max

[enfranglais]

I am wading through 2 boxes of photos & ephemera relating to the career of Sqn. Ldr. E. G. Waddingham, who trained at Thornhill in 1944 & passed 43a course, on the 21/12/1944. He remained in the RAF as a pilot until the mandatory retirement age of 55, having flown a total of 7,880 Hrs, his last flight being on the 09/04/1976.
I will try & attach a few things that stood out, including the wings party list, which would appear to be the list of pilots who graduated from the course & a page from his first of 4 log books.
If anyone has photos of Thornhill that year, it would help to determine which of his photos were from there?
Will try & post some more in the future, including a long list of pilots handbooks on various aircraft, a silk map of Palestine etc etc.

[Brian 48nav]

I guess must be 'Ed the Wad' who was a spec' aircrew Sqn Ldr pilot on 30 Sqn, Hercules, at Fairford and Lyneham from '68 to at least '73.

[enfranglais]

Yes, a "legend in his own lunchbox", or more to the point, in the mess bar!!!!
Trying to get to grips with all the boxes of RAF ephemera that i inherited when he passed away & now that i have retired & have a bit more time.
After leaving Lyneham, Ed & June had 12 years on a boat, getting as far as Sydney. They both then settled in Ft. Lauderdale, where he bought a twin prop, did private flights to the Bahamas & even flew as Captain for the US Coastguard into his late 60`s.
Interesting items include being fired upon over Palestine flying in spitfire formation by American pilot flying for the emerging Israeli Air Force!!!
Also loads about Operation "Deep Freeze", where he was flying out of NZ to resupply & landing Hercules in Antarctica on wheels rather than the "yanks", who apparently always used skis?!!
Did you "Nav" with Ed - if so, it must have been towards the end of his RAF career?
All the best,

Philip Waddingham

[ancientaviator62]

enfranglais,
I was on STS ('airdrop ocu') at Lyneham with Ed in the Early 1970s. Have his name in my log book several times.

[Brian 48nav]

Just dug my log book out - my first flight with Ed was:-

1970, Feb 19-21 Gyro trainer to Thule, Goose bay and Ottawa - then no again until:-

23/7/70 Drop at Watchfield
30/8/70 Fairford- Luqa- Akrotiri
10/9/70 Circuits
15/12/70 to 19/12/70 To Jo'burg via Lajes,Ascension, return via Accra and Lajes
the other captain was Chugalug2 who posts on PPRuNe
25/1/71 Circuits
16/2/71 to 24/2/71 Lyneham to Changi we were screening a new captain and nav'.
A few odd flights then we were both on the infamous Pisa detachment in Nov' '71 when a Herc we were following crashed into the sea. No3 in the formation crashed and Ed was in No4, I being in No5.
We led a formation together a week later.
Several odd flights together until we were the lead of 2 Hercs at the '72 Farnborough Air Show.
A few more flights and then Ed was the skipper on my last flight in the RAF in September '73 to Wildenrath and return twice.
He was certainly on 30 Sqn until then.

[ancientaviator62]

One of the things about my log book that during the airdrop courses I always logged the student captain as 'pilot'. So the first time Ed appears it is on Dec 4 1974 when the airdrop training empire was then called TSTS (it went through several names !) We flew in XV 210 to Tengah and back via the usual places.
I do recall him enthralling us all with tales of flying the Tempest in Egypt and especially of the day one of their a/c was shot down.

[enfranglais]

For anyone who knew "Ed the Wadd", here is him in his 20`s, his late 60`s in "Yank uniforms" & the "toy" he bought, when he sold the boat in Ft. Lauderdale:

[enfranglais]

Off topic but might interest a few here?
While looking through Ed`s accumulation, i found a silk escape map of Palestine & the Middle East & his log book entry was bookmarked with a newspaper report, so have put this up on E bay, to help fund his last grandchild's World Challenge to India, along with his RAF pins etc:

(add http in front) ://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202231786975?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649


There is a long article on the web RAFVIAF, though they have Ed as Waddington, rather than Waddingham (perhaps they knew his propensity for bar games?),
which might also be of interest to some here?
add http in front) ://www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.htm

[enfranglais]

Still going through Ed`s papers & this might interest 30 Sqn. Lyneham `lads` (have offered scan to the museum, if they are interested at Lyneham):

RAF Operation Deep Freeze 30 Sqn. Photos & Memorabilia




In November 1972, RAF Hercules C130 aircraft from Lyneham, Wiltshire, based out of Christchurch New Zealand to resupply the Antarctic research stations from McMudo station. They astonished the Americans by landing with wheels rather than skis!!! The resupply was from the 26th November 72 to the 8th of December & each return flight was about 14 hrs flying time.




This collection of 9 photographs, taken by the official USN photographers PHC Ralph Payne/Richard Beaudet on the 26/11/1972 (11-26-72 for the Colonials), shows LCDR Ralph Lewis greeting the RAF pilot, Sqn. Ldr. E.G. Waddingham & various shots of Hercules & base camp.

[enfranglais]

Still going through mountains of papers & found this Sgts. Mess Christmas dinner menu from 1944!! There seems to be no idea of rationing out in Rhodesia at that time & would be the envy of anyone still stationed back in `Blighty`!!!!!!!

[Gurnerworld]

Hi

My father trained at Thornhill in 1952/53 and would love to know if there are any others still around who were there too - I sat with him last weekend and went through some of his photos and his log book and it was fascinating to hear and see.

I’d intended to PM a couple of people on here, but I don’t think I’ve been a member long enough - sorry :)

Michael

[ian16th]

Still going through mountains of papers & found this Sgts. Mess Christmas dinner menu from 1944!! There seems to be no idea of rationing out in Rhodesia at that time & would be the envy of anyone still stationed back in `Blighty`!!!!!!!

Just seen this because of Gurnerworld's posting bringing the thread to life.

During a lot of WWII Southern Africa had a surplus of food, because the shipping wasn't available to export it.

[enfranglais]

Just seen this because of Gurnerworld's posting bringing the thread to life.

During a lot of WWII Southern Africa had a surplus of food, because the shipping wasn't available to export it.

Well, politics & emancipation resolved that one in Rhodesia unfortunately!!!!!!!!!!

[Warmtoast]

Gurnerworld

Like your father, I too was in Rhodesia (5 FTS RAF Thornhill) from 1951 to 1953 as a ground radio operator and have contributed extensively to this and other forums about my time there complete with a large number of photos.
To see some of what I have posted here on PPRuNe I suggest you do an "Advanced Search" in the Search column and in the Keyword Box enter 5 FTS and in the Username box enter Warmtoast. The results should keep you or your father entertained for a little while!

WT

[Matoman]

Philip

I run the Spyflight Website and wrote the article about the incidents between the RAF and various Israeli aircraft.

Sorry about the error in your fathers name - I shall change it to Waddingham when I next update the site.

My father F T Williamson was a QFI in Rhodesia when your father went through training and they may have flown together.

Regards,

Matoman

[enfranglais]

Sorry about late reply.
Thanks for correcting your website.
I have found that he flew with another Williamson but will have to get his log books out to see if he flew with your father.
I attach the wings party list for 1943, which shows the list of trainee pilots on the 1943a course, which might interest others here?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1251x959/22_thornhill_43a_course_wings_party_1_2afc9bdb1d6f8e31327c7d 7a8a63a3a5a5fc3267.jpg
1943 WINGS PARTY 1943a course



Philip

I run the Spyflight Website and wrote the article about the incidents between the RAF and various Israeli aircraft.

Sorry about the error in your fathers name - I shall change it to Waddingham when I next update the site.

My father F T Williamson was a QFI in Rhodesia when your father went through training and they may have flown together.

Regards,

Matoman

[Brian 48nav]

enfranglais

I don't know why I looked at your list of pilots, must be a quiet Sunday morning - but lo and behold I recognised the name E G Waddingham, 'Ed the Wad' as he was known on 30 Squadron. He was a Herc' skipper on 30 at Fairford and then Lyneham from '68 to at least late '73 when I left. I think he had been on Hastings in Akrotiri prior to the Herc'. He was a Spec' Aircrew Sqn Ldr and very pleasant man to fly with.
There were a few photos of him on the '60 years of the Hercules' thread' on Prune.
Edit - just noticed that his son had already placed them above - I'd not noticed them before!

[Tim00]

My late father (Noel "Steve" Stevens) was a nav instructor with RATG after completing a tour in Europe with 106. Info I have is:

13/8/43: Rhodesian Air Trg Gp duties: supy
02/2/44: 26 Elementary Flg Trg group:RATG duties: Staff Nav
Then back to UK 07/09/45.

Unfortunately, his wartime log book was destroyed in an officers' mess fire in Japan in '47, so I only have his post-war logs. The info above I obtained from his service records.
Tim.

[Snakes]

Good Day All

I am looking for assistance please, I bought a propeller from a lady called Lisa Heigh here in Zimbabwe about 17 years ago the propeller was handed down to her from someone in the RAF, I believe it use to hang in a officer mess some where in Rhodesia, I have the Part No and Her No of the prop but can't find the origin.

I will add some pictures, I think I came off a Fairtchild Cornell.

Any assistance will be appriciated.

Regards
Leon Snyman

[Snakes]

Good Day

Having problems uploading my pictures, the propeller is a Sensenich Model 43K15131A Ser No AF43B9293

Regards
Leon

[Ka-2b Pilot]

Hi all, only just come across this thread but I have a lot of information I can supply.
My father was an Insructor on Oxfords at RAF Kumalo from 1942 to 1944, having been posted there after spending 7 months in Hospital in Cairo after being shot down while flying a Blenheim from Palestine.
A few weeks ago my brother found his old logbooks in a box of our mother's possessions so I have details of many of the people involved both students and some instructors and groundcrew. In addition details of all their aircraft over that period.
I also have logbooks from 1935 when he started as a cadet flying Cadets through to 1954 when he was an air traffic controller.

[kenparry]

Ref post #83:

I suspect that "J D Mercer" is Jack Mercer, who was a QFI at Bristol UAS at the end of the '50s when I was a student there. He would be about the right age, and wore several WW2 medal ribbons. The last time I saw him was at Kidlington, about 1978; he was a flying instructor with what was then OATS, and I was there to do a civil IR.

Small world!

[M-62A3]

Good Day

Having problems uploading my pictures, the propeller is a Sensenich Model 43K15131A Ser No AF43B9293

Regards
Leon

Leon,
Firstly as the O.P. of this thread I owe you my sincere apologies for not finding and replying to your posting a lot sooner.
As regards your propellor. Yes, very likely it is ex-Cornell.
From Canadian Air Publication No.347, Cornell Schedule of Parts. "Sensenich Propellors 43K15131 to be used on WSL72-204 Contract (AC30109)....".
Fifty Cornell II from Contract AC30109 were assigned to the R.A.T.G. These aircraft wore the RCAF serials 16651 to 16700.
Tony Broadhurst

[M-62A3]

The original posting of this thread was to assist in the search for resources for a series on the Rhodesian Air Training Group to be published in an Air-Britain Journal. The eleventh and the final part of the series was published in the Summer 2016 issue of "Aeromilitaria" .
The thread proved invaluable to my own Fairchild Cornell research and I am sure assisted the series author, Dave Newnham.
I remain interested in seeing and recording any logbooks with Fairchild Cornell or Argus entries.
Tony Broadhurst