B787 / MA60

[DeltaT]

mmm, lets see now, another fire on the B787 today, and a technical issue forcing another to return, both in the same day. Isn't that the 4th or 5th fire its had (incl testing)?
Does this mean I can expect a mass panic news item on TVNZ tonight like they did for the MA60? Travellers warnings, retraction of funding etc
o, and the B787 isn't certified here in NZ yet either (because no one operates it from here right now), does that make it even worse? OMG OMG :}:}:rolleyes:

[Ngineer]

Not looking forward to this type hitting our shores. Wonder if the airlines involved will bother training any B2 (avionic) guys up, or if they will try save money letting the B1 (eng/af) fellas sort out any elect bugs.

Very interesting times ahead. Hope it runs smoothly.

[pull-up-terrain]

Not looking forward to this type hitting our shores. Wonder if the airlines involved will bother training any B2 (avionic) guys up, or if they will try save money letting the B1 (eng/af) fellas sort out any elect bugs.

.

The answer is pretty obvious :ugh:

[DeltaT]

Well that was a very sedate tv news item tonight by comparison to the MA60 segments in the past few days. I guess you can't possibly say anything too bad when Air NZ is about to get them now can you. We were even led to believe that the 787-9 is a whole new different plane compared to the 787-8. :ugh:

[Mobi LAME]

Some B2s have returned from Seattle and others have gone to Singapore for type training. Jolly decent of Boeing and Jetstar to provide plenty of work for those people to purchase additional investment properties!

[training wheels]

This might be the reason why the media's scaremongering about the MA60.

New Zealand cuts aid after Real Tonga gets its first MA60 - ch-aviation.ch (http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/news/20308-new-zealand-cuts-aid-after-real-tonga-gets-its-first-ma60)

[DeltaT]

Yes there was a interesting comment made on the BBC video by someone saying how the fire won't deter airlines from it as there is nothing else as fuel efficient on the market yet for the intended routes. (A350 still about another year away)
Watch how quick the NZCAA gives it the rubber stamp.
What's that I hear you say about Profits vs Safety?:ouch:

[mainwheel]

Mate, it should run smoothly and the onus won't be on any local staff, B1 or B2. It is a manufacturers problem and their responsibility just like cross tie lockouts, stab trim freezing on long flights, fire bottle wiring wrong way round, inlet spinners allowing ice and flameouts, torque shifts, L188 wings falling off, and multiple other initial problems.
The honeymoon stage is also the teething stage.
Even the almighty QF has 1 IFSD per week with the 747 when it first operated. Was that a blackhanders problem, fault?:8

[Ngineer]

Even the almighty QF has 1 IFSD per week with the 747 when it first operated. Was that a blackhanders problem, fault?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif14th Jul 2013 16:51

Of course not, but alot of new aircraft come out of the factory with defects surfacing that that are left to the ngineers to resolve. Occasionally they get sent back to the manufacturer if the issue becomes unresolved.

Unfortunately this is the nature of the beast when buying new planes. Not our problem, but it does eventually become ours.:O

[43Inches]

Interesting that after seeing this thread I had a read of the reports for the Merpati MA60 accidents. These along with the witness/media reports from the other accidents at Zest and Myanma do not indicate a problem with the aircraft at all. Both Merpati accidents were purely pilot error.

PK-MZK Flight 8968 (7/05/2011) was a visual approach into IMC (vis less than 2000m) , no briefing at all prior to approach, no navigation facilities or instrument approaches available, PIC called for flap settings that did not exist on the aircraft and during the missed approach called for flap retract below retract speed, never set climb attitude, in fact set 1-2 degrees nose down at 300AGL and entered a 38 degree angle of bank turn.

Flight 6517 (10/06/2013) The flight where the aircraft landed hard and lost its wings/engines. In the preliminary report Merpati was found to have changed the approach checklist to disable/turn off the automatic flight idle stop mechanism against the manufacturers checklist. The aircraft performed a non-stable high approach and the left engine was found to have been in beta from around 200agl to impact.

The two Zest over-runs appear to be more a matter of not enough runway for the aircraft combined with poor conditions and very bad pilot technique. The Myanma accidents were similar and the same airline had managed to lose a few Fokkers in years past as well.

I don't know much about the aircraft in detail, however the accidents do not seem to reflect a problem with the aircraft rather more a large problem with training.

[Jack Ranga]

mmmmmm, why would China GIVE an aircraft to Tonga? Interesting.

[43Inches]

mmmmmm, why would China GIVE an aircraft to Tonga? Interesting.

A lot of things are given to the pacific islands under the guise of aid, in return certain business favours are earned. Australia and NZ have been at it for years, as well as many other countries. Part of the reason Fiji has been in the naughty corner is that it is rejecting Aus/NZ involvement in favour of Chinese business. The trade agreements probably are similar to the Japanese situation where economic aid is given in the form of vehicles for police, naval vessels for patrol, aircraft etc... in exchange for favourable investment in local tourism businesses.

[Kiwiconehead]

Hi, here is a plane, now give us all your fish

[tail wheel]

Hi, here is a plane, now give us all your fish

Tuna, within Tongan territorial waters to be exact.

[belowMDA]

Having flown through the Pacific Islands reasonably extensively I can attest that the Chinese are very active with their "Aid" program. The difference between aid from China and that from Aus/NZ is that China expects a lot more in return especially when it comes to fishing rights. When I was in the Marshall Is the Chinese had made a deal to fish the territiorial waters outside 5nm from land. Problem was they trawled well inside 5nm in contravention of the deal and ignored protests from locals. Had the locals been bothered to fish to feed themselves (they weren't) their stock would have been severely depleted.
better the devil of Aus/NZ aid than China I think, but then they haven't as much bribe money I guess.