BALPA accuses EASA of maladministration

[overstress]

The mainstream press don't seem to have picked up on this yet.

The European agency responsible for aviation safety across the EU has been accused of gross maladministration by British pilots.

The British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), which represents over 80% of British airline pilots, has submitted a formal complaint to the European Ombudsman who has responsibility for investigating such cases of poor governance within European agencies.

BALPA’s complaint is that the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has breached its own terms of reference in the way it has put together its proposals to change pilots’ working hour limits; limits which are supposed to prevent fatigue. In particular the EASA group that formulated the proposals appear to be very short on relevant medical and scientific qualification and – astonishingly – EASA took no steps to record or manage conflicts of interest within the group.

BALPA’s General Secretary, Jim McAuslan, said, ‘The UK government will be represented at a crucial EU meeting on 10th and 11th July at which they will be asked to support these EASA rules which will substantially dilute the existing UK rules. We have written to the Minister to inform him of our Ombudsman complaint and asking him to support our cause and insist that the rule-making process is done properly.

'Regrettably the Minister has shown little stomach so far for a fight with EU bureaucrats. BALPA's battle is therefore likely to move to the EU parliament which has been poorly served by an agency that lacks transparency, skill and knowledge and yet has been given the power to draft rules which will have a big impact on every airline passenger in Europe.'

Link here (http://www.balpa.org/News-and-campaigns/News/EUROPEAN-AVIATION-AGENCY-GUILTY-OF-MALADMINISTRATI.aspx)

[BBK]

I'm guessing the mainstream press are not interested in stories without sensationalist value. It's not surprising that the general PPRUNE readers have ignored this thread because most of them are NOT professional pilots and so are ignorant of the issues surrounding fatigue. Much easier to spout nonsense about a high profile event like the Asiana tragedy.

[cockney steve]

Good to see that BALPA is finally being seen to do something useful with it's members' contributions.

Purely my opinion as an outsider, usual disclaimers etc.

This has far wider ramifications than "just" Pilot -Fatigue......the whole issue of incompetent beaurocrats abusing power is long-overdue for reassessment.

[Cows getting bigger]

Those of us in the training side of the industry have been banging on about EASA for a while. Poor audit trails, non-existent safety management (oh, they preach Management Systems but don't actually examine their own Opinion forming) and too much politicking.

'Bout time that someone shouted. At they same time we should be arguing about the wholly dysfunctional manner in which the CAA is interpreting and enforcing the EASA regulations.

[BBK]

Claybird

Thanks for the info. I'll give credit to BALPA for their work on this topic.

[overstress]

It will be interesting to see how the Cannock Coal Miner handles this one...

[BBK]

overstress

Quite so! It's not like he would act against the wishes of a members' ballot is it now.:{

[BOAC]

They did produce an explanatory video, too, a few months back. - would that be like the video they produced on cabin air problems? Remember that?

[BOAC]

Yes, vm, divide and conquer? Perhaps address your post to Mr Fyne?

[BBK]

VM

This isn't the place to debate that topic. I only replied with a one liner in response to over stress who wrote:

It will be interesting to see how the Cannock Coal Miner handles this one...


As I said I give BALPA credit for their work on FTL.

BOAC

Danny has offered BALPA the opportunity to communicate with non members on the VA Pilot Forum (not the pprune one). So far they have declined.

[overstress]

Hmm... Some confusion here. This thread isn't about VS and the Cannock Coal miner is the minister for transport, Patrick McLoughlin, who mined coal in Cannock.

[BBK]

overstress

My error entirely, lashings of apologies! In fairness to me the thread is about BALPA hence my confusion.

[moonym20]

EASA and maladministration in the same sentence? Surely not!





:ugh:

[A and C]

About ten years ago the chair of the parliamentary select committee for transport ( the late G Dunwoody ) described EASA as unfit for purpose and an accident going somewhere to happen...... Little has changed !

The paper trail for maintenance under Part M is driving up the cost of maintenance to a point were it is making general aviation unaffordable and at the same time the constant paper chase is keeping the engineering supervisors in the office and not keeping an hour to hour watch on the work in the hangar. It is the worst of both worlds EASA has put in place a less safe more expensive system.

The very pinnacle of EASA stupidity is the abolition of the UK's IMC rating, a qualification that has clear safety benefits that has been stopped by EASA politics and ego.

Flight crew licensing is now so complicate that it is very easy to fall foul of the mountain of rules, flying clubs are being over regulated out of existence by turning flying leisure establishments into mini flight schools and the latest gem of stupidity is that if a rating expires by just one day you need retraining to get the rating back not just an LPC.

Why BALPA have taken so long to wake up to the EASA paperwork gravy train ? I am pleased that they have but they need to look much further than the flight time limitations otherwise the regulator will strangle the industry from the ground up.

[Lonewolf_50]

Bravo to BALPA in trying to bell a cat.

Will other pilots' unions in Europe join in?

If not, why not? :confused:

[RAT 5]

Many many years ago N.Kinnock, yes him of UK prime minister fame, and who then became EU transport commissioner, voiced his support for improvements in aviation working conditions. Not a lot happened to improve matters; indeed much worsened. Was he held to account for his failing? No! No surprise there, then. On Prune, again many years ago, a debate was underway including a journalist and letters to MP's. It seemed at last that something might happen. Nope: naught once again was the result and things have declined further.

Now, I read, that the response from AEA (i.e. the managers/owners of EU airlines) is that EASA rules are better because they will apply to all operators in EU and give a level playing field. Oh! So that's alright then: it doesn't matter if the rules are rubbish, as long as everyone has to abide by them. Amazing that the financial leaders of the industry applaud the idea of more productivity for less reward from the workers. "They would say that, wouldn't they." For heavens sake, just think where we would be without FTL's. They stopped craziness in working hours, just. Yet now their correcting influence is being eroded rapidly back towards a previous life. technology is no compensation for eroding the fitness of the human in charge. e.g. SFO B777 and others.
I have never been so angry as when I was told by management that the roster schedule was proven to be fine & generous and any problems was a fault in the pilot's sleep/rest management strategy.
There is more to a family life than having an aluminium tube strapped to your back-side for half a day or night, even longer, and living away from home & family for half your life. The stresses of both are not what a 21st century professional career should be about. Making it worse is pure greed from the employers. For EASA to have the word 'safety' in its title is an insult to us all. I have watched the behaviour and worked under the FTL's of various XAA's in various EU countries over 30 years and wonder just who pulls their strings. I am convinced that the airline management have more influence than the pilots, cabin crew and engineers. I was fed up with having an airline audit from XAA, where FTL abuse was rife, loop holes exploited, but being harangued for not signing everything with dotted i's & crossed t's. Good heavens they could not see the woods for the trees, and seemingly didn't want to because then they would have to do something as the policemen they are supposed to be. And they didn't have a solution and would bite the hand that feeds them.
Now EASA seems to be continuing that behaviour. Can the pilot corps allow that abuse of power to continue? Absolutely not. MP's in all countries should be subjected to a constant, continuous, professional, well reasoned campaign to make them aware of what is happening. Greed must not be allowed to drag our public service down the same drain that the bankers took the general economy. Greed and bad management can have such disastrous effects. In some cases more deadly that others.

[ECAM_Actions]

European bureaucracy all over: useless, incompetent, dangerous.

The biggest danger with fatigue is that it is not a matter of feeling tired, but is a longer-term problem that can take months to really show itself. By then, it is too late.

[Epsilon minus]

http://www.easa.europa.eu/agency-measures/docs/opinions/2012/04/Draft%20CS%20for%20flight%20time%20specification%20schemes%2 0(Opinion%2004-2012).pdf

[Epsilon minus]

If you can navigate your way around the EASA web site you are cleverer than I!

http://www.easa.europa.eu/rulemaking/docs/crd/2011/CRD%202010-14/CRD%202010-14.pdf

[BARKINGMAD]

RAT 5 and A&C; Very well expressed thoughts and history on the decline of our industry, I shall cut and paste and fire them off to my elected rep in UK Parliament but without much hope.

Reading the postings on the recent CFITs such as AF447, THY @ AMS, Lionair and now Asiana @ SFO, there is very little use of the dreaded 'F' word.

If we can get our minds away from cultural differences and dodgy training, just remember that here in good old Blighty, where everything is tightly regulated and officially no airline staff are abused (:rolleyes:), I still open my copy of CHIRP to read of bad practices by CAA Regulated airlines negatively affecting both flying and ground staff.

F A T I G U E is a regularly aired complaint, despite UK FTLs, yet the corporate interests continue to overrule the basic health and safety (deliberately small font!) of the workers at the coalface and the paying public who put their money and their trust in the airlines whio carry them.

The question frequently aired in respect of the recent CFITs is "how could they be so stupid etc as to miss the IAS, AoA, performance and other cues presented just before it all went pear-shaped"?

Well is it just possible they were simply 'dog-tired' at the time, though the accident investigations will show compliance with whichever awful set of FTLs applied at the time? I bet the Fatigue Management Sytems operated by most airlines make the CEOs feel they've ticked the relevant boxes, but if a UK chief pilot can react to a pilot's complaint about running 100hrs in 28 days rolling, over a period, by suggesting he "find another contract", then we're all on our way to hell in a handcart, along with our passengers who (mistakenly) trust the systems in which they've entrusted their lives.

Try reading over the aforementioned threads and maybe the suspicion will arise that FATIGUE could be a possible explanation as to "how could they do that?". Yet once that genie is out of the bottle, the profitability of many airlines who've made their piles out of abusing their staff is then in danger.

So I have no doubt that, even if this posting gets past our very busy censor, we'll hear precious little about tired pilots, CC and engineers whilst many on the forums various will continue to muse over A/P modes and ATC procedures and rushed approaches.

Can anyone smell coffee...........?! Or are you not awake................?! :ugh:

[cockney steve]

@ barking mad.... you surely weren't , when you chose that alias:}......
First,I'll play Devil's Advocate...... Most of Industry works a 40-hour week,- that includes the bods in charge of Nuclear Power generation, among other very high-risk, high responsibility jobs......Brain-surgeon, anyone?....so, while fatigue *may* be a real issue , an average 25-hour week is seen as a "cushy number" through most other eyes.

IMO, the real problem is the huge growth in mass air-travel bought about by cheap fares.

If the airlines are making so much money, stop to ask yourself, "why are so many going bust? "

Up the fares and you'll have more money and therefore be able to justify better T's and C's EXCEPT YOU WON'T because you will exclude those who can't (or won't) afford the extra cost...so the REAL answer is to shrink the airline business dramatically.....fewer, less frequent aircraft on fewer routes, charging enough that seat-occupancy is optimally high and profits pay the remaining staff a good wage and leaves sufficient for maintenance and replacememt.

Of course, this new, elite air-transport world will mean at least half of present Aircrew will need a new carreer...........
Is that what you reallywant?

[Sporran]

Cockney Steve,

I have not bothered to comment of this forum for ages, but some of your comments cannot go 'un-challenged'.

You imply that airline pilots do 25 hours a week!!!!!! I am a S/H captain working out of LHR and I manage more than that as 'block time'. You then need to add briefing times, times between turnarounds, simulator checks, ground duties and also the plethora of other matters that are involved in maintaining your ability to remain competent.

Airline pilots are not looking for favours, just sensible FTLs based on scientific data and 'knowledge' rather than the whims of bean-counters in airlines.

The USA is making an effort to tighten some aspects of their FTLs, but the bunch of beaurocrats at EASA are not basing the new regulations on scientific data and even less on knowledge.

'Some' aspects of the new FTLs will increase the possibility of fatigue among pilots, not improve safety.

[cockney steve]

@ Sporran....
Yes, I'm well aware that there are loads of "extras",over and above time in the Command seat . Again, this is not the perogative of just Flight-Deck Crew.
Many of us deride the poor quality of a lot of teachers, nowadays...It's also seen as a cushy number for those that can't "do"....but it cannot be denied there are a lot of hidden hours with the job, over and above the headline"9-3.30, 5 days a week, half term, full term and 6-week summer holidays"

I have often stated (see the Canadian ,"18 and Iwant to be a Pilot" thread)....the cost of training, divided into the short, legally mandated and limited working time of a professional Pilot, is a significant drain on the hourly remuneration of the Profession.

Truth is, most love the job and get paid to "play"....most other workers have to do the "least bad" job to put the bread on the table.

Currently, too many Pilots , too many Airframes, not enough Pax revenue.
simple economics.
show me a "greedy" airline and I'll show you a bank that makes over 15% on lending out someone-else's money(the depositors' , who *might* get 1%)

[PBY]

Did Easa answered BALPA? It has been over a year now.
Any progress in this area?
What really screwed me up in the FTL system is that after 12 hrs of duty, I have to have 14 hours of rest. But day has only 24 hours. So if you add 12 and 14, you will end up with 26 hours. So now we have to get switched back and forth from morning shift to evening shift.

[Methersgate]

"I'm guessing the mainstream press are not interested in stories without sensationalist value. It's not surprising that the general PPRuNe readers have ignored this thread because most of them are NOT professional pilots and so are ignorant of the issues surrounding fatigue. Much easier to spout nonsense about a high profile event like the Asiana tragedy."

I am not a professional pilot; my field is commercial shipping and my EASA is EMSA, if I may so put it. I am very alert to fatigue issues and I have huge reservations about EMSA, and to some extent also the IMO (our ICAO). So this thread is of immediate interest to me.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Pby - the fourteen hour reg is when crew work the extension Fdp. Normal rest at home is twelve

[RAT 5]

Normal rest at home is twelve

I wonder if what you wrote is what you mean. Many years ago the sensible Scandanivian FTL's allowed a 1 hour travel time home and back again. Thus 12 hours rest at home equalled 14hr off duty: which is what PSB hinted at. However, in only that regime wasrest at home considered. Every other FTL was time off duty - time on duty. Travelling was not considered. The time in some airports from stand engines off to car park can differ by 1 hour in both directions.