Drinking Culture in the RAF – Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.

[SRENNAPS]

As I sit here nursing a beer following the loss of the British Lions game (it’s not over yet) it reminding me of a conversation I had in work a few days ago about drinking in the RAF.

When I joined in 78 the drinking culture was huge. Between joining in 78 to leaving in 07 I saw a dramatic change in attitude from high level leadership towards the drinking culture.

At Swinderby and Halton at aged 17, getting hammered was totally normal, and sociably acceptable by everybody from the top down, despite the fact you were underage. Yes, you were given special coloured epaulets if you were over 18, but they were just shared amongst the under aged chaps (lass’s were treated quite differently in those days). Everybody knew it went on and provided you did not get into trouble it was unofficially accepted.

After being posted in to the real Air Force, lunch time drinking was the norm and Friday midday or end of shift the whole Sqn/Flt/Section was off down the pub or had a beer call.

A posting to Germany and the drinking culture went into 5th gear. I remember when I first went to Bruggen and the Stash used to have a yearly competition on which Sqn/Section/even MQ blocks down in Elmpt, had the best bar.

Over the years I saw this attitude change. Bars and booze slowly, but surely became frowned upon and some bars were closed down and banned. Ironically, this change of attitude came from the top leaders (strangely the same chaps that used to get hammered when they were young officers’ in a sociably acceptable culture), but in my experience it continued at working level. Most still enjoying going for that “Shed On” on a Friday beer call.

I have been out 6 years now, but now and again I meet up with the old crowd and we still go for it big style :O:O

So, I was just wondering what it is like now and what the attitude to a great big pi$$ up will be in the future.

[glad rag]

Hmm. Having joined in '79 I agree with SRENNAPS and his description of those days both in the UK and RAFG.

However, with hindsight , it seems that the drinking culture was seen as the lesser of two evils compared to drug use.

In saying that you have to remember the Septics with their Vietnam fiasco and the prevalence of drug use and the problems that arose in the field.

[Shack37]

I third the previous two posts. Joined B/E in 1960 at 16 y/o. Sitting in a pub in Barry Island with some mates when in walked a large Welsh policeman. Fortunately he was a good chap who just said "I'll be back in 10 minutes lads, I suppose you'll have left by then". Never found out if he returned because we had gone.
Once in the real mob lunchtime and nightshift supper sessions were the norm.
Happy daze!

[smujsmith]

I was posted from Halton (in 1971) as a wet behind the ears 17 1/2 year old Jnr Tech. I was employed on a Base 3 Servicing team, which consisted of around 50 personnel of all trades. Managed by a Flt Sgt, the Airframes and Engine trades were run by Chf Techs. We had our own OC, a Fg Officer Engineer Branch. Every Thursday the whole team "paraded" at the " Fox" in Colerne village. On walking in there were pies and pints for everyone, which was usually followed by another ale. The bill for this was paid for out of a team fund, which we all contributed to, dependant on rank. I never saw anyone drunk in the 2 years I was on that team, there was never any "trouble" and I suspect that most of us learned the "art" of how to drink sensibly from our SNCO's who were always the last to leave at 1300 hrs. I think the drinking got a lot heavier by the 80s and that's when I believe, restrictions began to enter the service. By the time I left in 1997 it was frowned on to have a pint with your lunch, and then return to work. I'd like to say, looking back, aahhh those were the days, but I'm not convinced that the service is now the worse for controlling alcohol consumption. I know that many of the Drivers Airframe and their fellow crew members always had the 8 hour bottle to throttle rule, which always seemed sensible to me, and generally did not impede on people's needs for a beer or two. It's fair that the Groundcrew operate similarly, if they are to maintain their professional integrity.

Smudge

[Shack37]

Smudge, I wasn't suggesting we returned to work legless which wouldn't have been acceptable even back then. A max of two pints of beer would rarely, if ever have been exceeded. If later, 1980's, alcohol consumption needed to be controlled then that's another story.

[goudie]

As a young airman in Germany I was an enthusiastic member of the drinking culture, along with just about everyone else. Although enthusiastic I wasn't (fortunately I suppose) very good at it. The same drinking culture existed on every RAF Base, in my experience, especially o/seas. The furniture in the 'Pigs Bar' at Tengah was bolted to the floor for obvious reasons!
As Ord. Sgt. at Akrotiri, I had to clear the Airmen's Club of about 30 hard drinking Paras. Fortunately there were a couple of dog handlers hovering outside and on seeing them the Paras upped and left, in a semi orderly manner.
The IT company I joined in the early '70s also had a drinking culture, especially among middle management. By the time I left in the mid '90's that too had diminished somewhat.

[smujsmith]

Shack,

Sorry if I leave the wrong impression. I certainly wasn't insinuating that anyone was rolling back to work at 1300 canned. I just had the impression that for a period of time it became quite acceptable to partake, and, as always, one or two overdid it. I for one am certainly no saint, and certainly used my time as a Herk GE to sample some delightful watering holes. Apologies again for any idea I may have left that I thought you had a drinking problem.:ugh:

Smudge

[Melchett01]

I'm afraid you wouldn't recognise it now then. I suspect the work hard play hard culture was part of the military being a way of life rather than a job. Unfortunately, that has diminished and we have become more and more corporate in our outlook, our language and our ways of working. There is little room for a hard drinking culture these days, especially as post-incidents, the investigative chain has a very long reach and can include breathalysers and testing for blood alcohol levels.

As we move to the NEM and more and more people are encouraged to live off base, what little reamins of the work hard play hard culture post-PAYD will be finally killed off as beer calls become soft drink calls as people have to drive home.

Now I must admit to being a bit of a lightweight these days - I did most of my life's drinking between starting uni and finishing my second tour, but even I can see the benefits of getting everyone together for a session to enhance unit cohesion, following a success, or as a way of bringing people together after some bad news.

[Haraka]

Sorry, it's now all part of the "Nannie" culture. The RAF ethos was in my time partly bar based (happy hour , POETS hour, drinking on a dead mate's bar bill etc,)
Some Aircrew USED to drink a bit at lunch time and fly in the 60's . 70's no way , unless there was nothing on in the afternoon- perhaps.
Happy hour was always a good opportunity to collar the Boss about some real or imagined bugbear, keeping in mind that his quarter was likely fodder for a "Taceval" later in the evening.
Yes, we drank hard and played hard. "In vino veritas" taught us youngsters a lot from our seniors and all was forgotten on Monday Morning.
Later, in Industry, I found that a definition of a "Good Farnborough" was one in which more alcohol than aviation fuel was consumed.
All terribly non -PC now.
You're welcome to it.
P.S. Posted before reading the above submission......

[BEagle]

Delving through the ULAS archives in about 1992, I found a bar chit dating from our time at White Waltham 20 years earlier, Haraka - which vividly described the vile concotions created for a night of 7 - 14 - 21.....

I've no idea how we survived!

In 1977-9, if we landed the tin triangle after night flying, it was common to adjourn for a 'crew round' if the Scruffs' Bar was still open. Beer was 20p per pint, there were five in the crew and we all bought a round for a pound. Five pints later, we all went home - and thought nothing of it. We simply didn't know any better.....

[Danny42C]

I think it's an age thing:

"When the blood ran in my veins
And the curls lay on my brow
Then did I, O undergraduates
Much as you are doing now"

D.

[Onceapilot]

Can't remember a thing......:yuk:.

OAP

[CoffmanStarter]

Chad says ...

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/asstd3/kroy-small.jpg

Taken in moderation and occasional excess once the Hangar Doors are closed ... not a problem :ok:

[NutLoose]

I remember in RAF Bruggen Alcohol was allowed in the Blocks as long as it was for immediate consumption and a crate of Grolsch was acceptable.

We had a couple of deaths when I was there, one in Roermond involving a train sadly and another ran over on the way back from the Feardry Inn, poor kid that hit him as he staggered out in front of his rover had only been driving a short time.

[Onceapilot]

Ha! Someone will claim that there were Joker cards soon:ooh:.

OAP

[Rigga]

Had the same conversation with my Daughters on a recent long drive:

My experience of the RAF's Friday drinking was this:
Pub at 1200
Out by 1500
Sweep & Sign-Up 'til 1600 (ish)
Home.
I did that more or less for four years 'til my Fitters Course.

Posted to RAFG in the v. early 80s: I went for a 2200 Duty Evening meal and was taken to the Naafi instead where we quaffed three pints each...when I got back to work - I found I couldn't!

I haven't done that since.


...well, not when at work!
Cheers!
Rigga

[MATELO]

It is down to two reasons I reckon.

In the "old" days people had nothing in there room so would pop out for a quick beer to the Naffi/Mess to be social. Fridays were an excuse to finish early to be honest and beer calls were looked forward to all week.

Now, everybody has internet in their rooms and cars on the car park. People just sit in most nights now and play console games and bugger off at the weekend in their cars.

Naafis and messes are like ghost towns now with some closing at weekends because nobody stays on camp.

[NutLoose]

Sounds like a right bunch of sado's these days from that description.

Might not of had Internet in those days, but had motorbike / car, TV, Video, kettle, Toaster, HiFi, PC and could while away many an hour waiting for my game tape to load whilst watching the bright flashing colours on the screen...

And still went out socialising...

Ahh I wondered how we ever did it, out on the town, night clubbing to 5.30 am in Jever, back to the station and the block, have a wash and pop on the uniform and await the crew van at 7am to take us to work

:}

Ahhh anyone remember the 52 hour discos they used to do at Rheindalen for charity? When the bar shut a beer store opened... Remember getting home Sunday night late, having left on Friday evening early to go to it...

Same at Christmas at Bruggen, a bar was open all day in the NAAFI to some silly time, was normally followed by Champagne and Strawberries for breakfast in the ermmmmmm WAAF block. :O

Then there was the block parties........exercise, in at a stupid time, back to the block 7pm ish with 5am ish start, so corridor party and so drunk was one and all no one knew the police block next door had even burnt down until subsequently we were all interviewed by the SIB

But as said, it was the culture of the time.... Damn miss those parties :E

[Top West 50]

Looking back, to 1963 when I joined, pretty well every event was either preceded by alcohol, had alcohol involved or was succeded by alcohol. I do not drink at all these days having realised, over the years, that I had built up some dependence.

[MATELO]

Maybe's it's just that we are old farts and dont get invited anymore. :{ :{

[NutLoose]

Same here TW50, I can go months without any then may have a few before going months again without touching it... Though I do enjoy a bottle of wine on a weekend of late.

[Shack37]

Apologies again for any idea I may have left that I thought you had a drinking problem.:ugh:


Smudge,
Thanks for your reply, I did not read your post as suggesting anything of the sort ergo no apology required.:ok:

[Dan Gerous]

Joined in 76 and after training and into the real RAF at Lossiemouth, it was out on the town or in the Naafi 4 or 5 nights a week, and at least 4 pints a night. The bars shut at 10.30 in Scotland then and that was drag, until they introduced 11-11 hours for pubs and the Naafi open till I think 00.00 or even 01.00. I can well remember one day being on the booze from 11.00am until Midnight, trying to dance with some lass at the Naafi bop and unable to move my feet, I was so drunk. Woke up on Sunday morning, and nothing, no hangover or side effects at all. I remember having a little internal word with myself about it warning me to watch it in future. Two tours in Belize with a lot of weekends in the City knocking back the drink, and a posting in between to Kinloss, which was a social club, masquerading as an RAF Base. In all that time I never felt I was out of control or it was a problem, I was young and could handle it. The one thing I would never do, was put in for Germany. Whenever you asked anyone what Germany was like, it was always about the alcohol. I know a few folk who came back from there with not necessarily an alcohol problem, but with a large rate of consumption of the stuff, and the big difference in price was a problem for them. I bought a 4 pack some months ago to have a drink watching the European cup final, planning to have one for each half. As it turned out I forced myself to finish the first one, and the other 3 are still sitting in the fridge. I guess when you were out with your mates you looked after each other, you were young and daft, and had the money to spend, but as you got older the money was better spent on other things.

[Speedywheels]

An interesting post.
I served in the RAF in the 80s and there definitely was a drinking culture BUT as long as you stuck to the adage of 'Dont be late on parade', drinking seemed to be an accepted part of the work hard, play hard attitude to life in the RAF. Now after 20 years in civvie mode, i can see that there is equally hard drinking as i ever saw in the RAF. I still see guys drinking 20 pints in a session that would floor me after half that amount but at the same time they will never pass BFT or would ever be seen as the right material for military life now, although some of them are ex Army and RAF.
I served on the same squadron as the OP and we have plenty of stories of life in the 'front line' in RAFG enjoying the benefits of overseas allowance and an inclusive environment stationed in a fantastic community - life really was good!
Attitudes to alcohol have changed and no doubt the RAF has moved in the same direction as the corporate world (although some people still manage to have those corporate long boozy lunches and then go back to their desks for the afternoon).
Like everything else there were times we want to forget but I do remember being pulled up by my SENGO as i'd been spotted by aircrew quaffing a quick cup of Gluhwein when i was on nightshift at a Guy Fawkes night at Brueggen and I had to put my hands up and apologise. The most important point is I dont think we were relaxed about the consumption of alcohol and its impact on the safety of the lives of our comrades.
That said, i do still remember the joys as a young J/T at Coningsby, I learnt about the pleasure of being nominated to fit the LOX pots on early shift and doing oxy flow checks in the cockpit :ok:

[Herod]

Back in the sixties a lot of the senior pilots were ex-wartime, when a lot of drinking went on. I suppose when tomorrow's flight might be your last, that was to be expected. In fact, in Enemy Coast Ahead, Gibson responds to criticism of the drinking culture and explains that it had a lot to do with bonding and esprit de corps.

I went through pilot training in '65-'66 and the expected was bar till eleven, breakfast at seven, brief at eight and airborne at nine. I found as I got older that the quality of oxygen seemed to change: a quick whiff was no longer enough. Nowadays the commercial guys daren't touch the stuff during the working week.

[FJJP]

The death knell for the drinking culture was sounded when the QFI on an early morning weather check did an ultra low level run along Gouthwaite Reservoir and buried a wingtip in the water. He was found to be still half pissed after a heavy and late night on the booze.

Rules on dinking went through the roof - some took it to extremes; for example, an edict came from on high that guests to messes were to be served soft drinks only - my Staish sent a missive back to the effect that HE would decide what to serve guests on HIS station.

These days, the drinking culture is largely dead - the latest generation are not used to 'going for a beer' at the end of the day/week...

[Basil]

When I joined in 1965, I was ex Mercantile Marine (Merch) where we thought ourselves quite a drinking womanising bunch.
As a new junior RAF officer, I rapidly formed the opinion that the RAF had the MN beaten into a corner in those respects.
A very minor custom was that, refuelling in Istres le Tube near Marseille we would have a glass of wine with lunch before continuing to Malta or Cyprus. One day, on a whole crew route check, the wine arrived but, of course, no-one touched it until the 54yo route check captain picked up a bottle and announced "Shall we just treat this like a normal trip?"
The drinking, extramarital shagging and GF swopping were legendary.
Aahh :O

Edited to say - Had a look this am to see if I'd posted anything bannable post drinks ;)

[NutLoose]

Anyone remember pints of Tizer? :E

'Twas cheaper to put spirits in the glass at Bruggen than the mixer, so pints of Bacardi coke etc was the norm in the Naff 1...

Or Deci and the Deci red purchased from a "petrol pump" behind the German Bar.


:D

[Robert Cooper]

In the 50's one was expected to be in the mess bar at 5:30pm with the rest of the squadron. I seem to recall that habitual absence was reflected on ones annual report. Same for dining in night's, one was expected to be there and get involved in mess games.

Happy daze!!!

Bob C

[The Oberon]

I can remember being posted to RAFU Goose Bay in the early 70s. Goose was on the special duties list at the time and was parented by Waddington.

Sgt Oberon duly presented himself at Waddington and was interviewed by a Sqn. Ldr. Educator, part of the conversation went :-

"Sgt., are you teetotal ?" "No, sir"

"Are you a habitual drinker ?" "No, sir"

"That's OK then, we don't like to send drunks or teetotallers to Goose, just normal people who are going to get smashed 2-3 times a week", and we did.

[blaireau]

Ah the 60's. I well recall one very foggy morning at Syerston with a poor forecast for the afternoon. The boss suggested a session at a local pub in a nearby village. We all marched down, yes; marched, leaving a duty boy on the desk. Well into a very convivial session, the boss took a call from the duty boy. The weather had miraculously cleared and the CFI wanted to know why the f*** we weren't flying. After a rapid RTB, we manned up for Staff Continuation Training. No studes were subjected to our possibly degraded abilities. A lot of formation aeros and circuits and we were soon fit for the evening session. AND boxes were ticked.

[Haraka]

I was sitting next to a German Service mate on a flight some years ago and started browsing the Airline's In-Flight magazine. Amongst the usual inane drivel was an article including one of those "effects of Alcohol" pieces, including the loading table. " One beer = no effect," "Two beers = slight elevation of mood" up to "Twenty Beers = danger of total loss of consciousness - possible death".
Now Edgar was a drinker of the old German School, so out of interest I handed the magazine across to him for his opinion. With a bored expression he looked at it , glanced down the "Alcohol effects" table and passed it back.
" I drink more than that before I have a p*ss", he replied.

[Wander00]

Remember Aunty Joan at Neatishead, with a smile on her face watching the look of disgust on the late great Ken Hayr's face as he realised the beer the Boss had given him was non-alcoholic. She reminded him it was his rules as AOC. I think it was quickly changed for a "proper" pint!

[Trim Stab]

Must be something wrong in the RAF then. I have absolutely no recollection whatsoever of ever drinking any alcohol in the army:-)

[BEagle]

The death knell for the drinking culture was sounded when the QFI on an early morning weather check did an ultra low level run along Gouthwaite Reservoir and buried a wingtip in the water. He was found to be still half pissed after a heavy and late night on the booze.


I recall being told on some course or other that excess alcohol was frequently detected after most non-technical failure flying accidents, but that was such a potential hot potato that it was never disclosed if other factors were likely to have been more contributory.....:uhoh:

[Q-RTF-X]

First posting in 1960 after Boy Entrant training and 617 squadron Christmas p.u. at the big pub by Caenby Corner. My first squadron bash, lots of grizzled old timers on the squadron who seemed intent on breaking wet behind the ears former boy entrants into the culture. The ‘eats’ that night was a simple affair; a great cauldron of thick pea soup and crusty bread. The grizzled old timers had determined I was to drink pints of bitter with rum and black chasers. The combined effect of the soup and the drinks made for a rather colorful yawn just outside, fortunately before boarding the bus to return. There were many walking wounded and I thought I did well to start feeling human again in just under 48 hours; heavy duty stuff. Good foundation for two tours at Akrotiri, one in Masirah and a handful of detachments (including a couple in Malta).

Was there a drinking culture in those days … certainly but, as quite a few have pointed out, we were expected to show up at work on time and police ourselves when it was needed. I left the air force in 1975 and went to work within aviation in the Middle East and found a pretty heavy duty drinking culture there also. I did witness a slowing down over the years, for the better I think. I’m retired now but still do a little consulting, simple rules apply; enjoy your drink but don’t make an ass of yourself. I meet up occasionally with an ex 33rd entry buddy who also lives in Manila and on such occasions feel free to be a little more flexible, wives being responsible for return transport arrangements tends to keep a bit of a cap on things though. :ok:

[teeteringhead]

I recall being told on some course or other that excess alcohol was frequently detected after most non-technical failure flying accidents, Indeed. Possibly the Flying Supervisors' Course.

I think that was the one I attended when Day One finished with the Alcohol Abuse lecture and film ......

........ closely followed by the Welcome Barrel!! :ok:

[The Oberon]

QRTFX

Probably " The Monk's Arms ", still there, but a bit worse for wear.

[SRENNAPS]

Dam, I am well pi$$ed and I have to fly to Munich tomorrow. Nothing changed for me then :):)

[goudie]

On detachment to Tengah from Akrotiri, for two months, Boss gets us all in the crewroom for a Saturday morning social get together, just prior to returning home. When he judged that we'd consumed enough cans of Tiger he announced that we'd been extended for another month. A few moans but on the whole it was accepted and we just got on with it and carried on drinking in the Malcolm Club and London Bar in the village.

[Onceapilot]

Drinking for another month?:uhoh:

OAP

[LateArmLive]

It's fair to say that we (aircrew) do drink less at "work" these days, and there are plenty of reasons for it:

1. Mess life is very different from the Cold War/RAFG days as previously mentioned. People also tend not to live-in these days (post-OCU) unless there's something wrong with them :\

2. Drinking and flying really isn't big or clever - in fact it's totally unprofessional. It used to be "ok" to drink and drive - the RAF only caught up in the past 15-20 years.

3. You can be tested for booze/drugs after any accident these days. Read the last F3 accident report to see just how much detail they go into. Note - drugs or alcohol had nothing to do with Kenny's crash, it's just the first accident report I read that made me realise just how seriously we are about alcohol vs aviation these days.

That's not to say we don't drink these days - happy hours are generally good but tend to need a catalyst to make them legendary these days. Dining in nights are usually followed by no-fly or gnd trg days nowadays (thank goodness :ouch:) so people can build their sheds without worrying too much about the morning after. But you'd have to be a real idiot to go flying with alcohol in your system.

[NutLoose]

Really it's all just gone the way we operate Civi wise.

[Pontius Navigator]

In 1964 the bar at Finningley was pale cream woodwork, blue velvet seating and very subdued lighting a la USAF Clubs. I remember one liquid lunch when on the ground school. I think we had a late-PM start and I certainly had a glass or 4 of sherbet. Poured out of the bar at 2 it was a rude awakening finding bright sunshine rather than a starlite sky.

The anti-drink culture started when Craig was CAS and went from there. I remember my boss, slops at ISK, coming back well the worse for wear and sitting in his office until tea time when he sobered up a little to do some work. It seemed his problem had started during a tour on 203 and resumed when he couldn't cope with the demands of his new job. I think it was well overdue.

There was a drinking culture at ISK with Crownex and Stablex etc but only after an early stack. With about a 100 aircrew there were also plenty of barrels on Friday nights and post-flight officers and knockers would repair to scruffs bars for individual debriefs.

There was still a culture at ISL but by now more restrained to post-flight debriefs. I recall one such debrief where it was deemed inappropriate to go home after a couple of beers and wake the wife (at 4am) so we carried on through to breakfast. I have no recollection of how or when I got home 30 miles away.

By the 90s, with more people living off base and at some distance from the station even dining-in nights could be dry affairs for some.

[Q-RTF-X]

I thought this might be an appropriate read - not too much of a thread drift with a few smiles along the way

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/opinion/sunday/booze-as-muse.html?pagewanted=1&emc=eta1

PS While reading this I made a note to try to get a coy of Roald Dahl’s short story “Taste”

[NRU74]

I was a tad reluctant to contribute to this thread...but..after a few beers it's a subject I know something about...
I look back in horror at my time in the RAF in the sixties and seventies when (very) heavy drinking and flying took place
'Basil' mentions Istres - we didn't just drink the wine en route to Malta/Idris/El Adem- we went in the bar first and had a couple of beers before having the wine.On the same (transport) squadron I once remember Ops phoning the pub and asking us (Friday lunchtime after 4 pints) if we'd mind going back to the squadron to do an Air Test.The main problem was -could we do the Air Test and land in time for 5pm Happy Hour.
Again, on Tankers, I remember arriving late in Akrotiri one Friday night and having do an early slot on an exercise because of crew sickness etc -we carried the plotter-who was so pi$$ed from the previous night- up the ladder and strapped him in before going to flight planning etc.
We were young,with young livers,and occasionally I and others stayed up all night before the next leg-but as I approach 70,i'm pleased and somewhat surprised I'm in such (relatively) good nick
I could go on, but I think that many who were on Transports and V Force will recognise (with hindsight) just how heavy the drinking culture was.

[NutLoose]

We were young,with young livers,and occasionally I and others stayed up all night before the next leg-but as I approach 70,i'm pleased and somewhat surprised I'm in such (relatively) good nick

Probably why they pickle specimens in alcohol :)

[Wensleydale]

I remember being subject to a minival recall one night during the 1980s. I had been to a function and had a couple of pints of beer inside me. I was ordered to fly a sortie - I was not even fit to drive and so I refused and was given a big b*ll*cking by my flight commander about Squadron loyalty!

Why did I make the decision? The only time that I flew with fresh beer inside me was during my first few months on the squadron - it was on a transit in a Shackleton from Benbecula to Lossie. We had delivered some rifles to Benbecula but with unforecast ice on the runway we had delayed landing and we needed a slurp of fuel to get back to Lossie. The Captain decreed that we would return minimum crew with the scopies as passengers - we could have a beer with lunch in the mess before the straight transit home. Needless to say, we lost an engine on the take-off run and had to make a fairly heavy landing on a rapidly icing runway. I wonder what the BOI would have made of it had we not had a successful landing, and I also wonder what the squadron's take on loyalty would have been.:{

[chuks]

then you probably weren't part of it!

I worked with a few "when I's" in civilian life, when this ex-Forces drinking culture was fairly obvious. Well, actually, it stuck out like a dog's balls! I liked a drink now and then, particularly when playing darts, but Holy Moly!

The problem became trying to drink like the young men we had been, on into middle age.

The funny thing was that I saw, and then got officially shown, the writing on the wall.Then I had to quit; I could either drink heavily or else not at all, but to sit there sipping one glass of slowly-warming white wine seemed ridiculous, pathetic.

Once I was sat there faking it, drinking soda water with bitters that looks for all the world like a proper whiskey soda, I could see someone I had taken for a bon vivant turn into a slobbering fool, telling the same "When I was on..." story twice or thrice, leant in close enough for little bits of his spit to hit me in the face... Ugh! Drunk, I never noticed, or at least never minded, that.

The problem is that the military teaches you to drink heavily, but then decants you into a world where that becomes a rather silly thing to do. Some of us just do not want to change, and I think we all know people who pay heavily for that, just doing what they had been taught to do when they were young and impressionable, and resilient. I used to fall over and bounce. Now I just hit with a dull thud and lay there, moaning. Boring, I know....

[Onceapilot]

Do we need the booze or, is it a "culture" thing?

OAP

[goudie]

Do we need the booze or, is it a "culture" thing?
Good question.
In my experience how much one could drink was a very macho thing .Also there were quite a few games played whereby the penalty was to knock down a pint, quickly. Guys who could down a pint in one were heroes.
Spent many a night with head in the toilet vowing never to drink again! As probably many of us did.
So yes, it was a culture thing in my opinion.
I enjoy a couple of pints these days still...sipped slowly!

[Tankertrashnav]

It used to be "ok" to drink and drive - the RAF only caught up in the past 15-20 years


Not so. Somewhere around 70-71 a decree came out that any officer who lost his/her licence as a result of a drink driving conviction would also lose their commission as well. I don't think anyone really believed it until an Air Commodore medic or dentist (can't remember which) was chucked out after a breathalyser conviction. Certainly made people think.

It was around that time that those living out were able to claim for a taxi fare home after a dining-in night as these were regarded as parades. Doubt if that still happens - indeed reading about non-existent mess life I wouldn't be surprised to read that dining-in nights no longer exist :(

[Basil]

chucks, "When I was on..." story twice or thrice
Oh, I do that; I like to think that the others are out of it or have forgotten I told the same story last week :}

[cuefaye]

I well recall in 1969 the Chivenor Stn Cdr summoning all officers into the ante-room and warning us of the dire consequences after being caught drink driving. Overnight things changed, especially given the Air Cdre's fate! But happily the 'culture', or whatever one wishes to brand the lifestyle, didn't change. Now approaching 70, I still enjoy five pints several times a week, good banter in the bar with all ages, and an annual MoT that continues to reveal a sporting liver. Vive l'alcool - albeit I now find that beer and red are a tad fatal these days.

[denachtenmai]

Drinking in the 60's:eek:
After about 47 years I'll tell about about the time we were to do a Sharjah det. starting 1st Jan. with a TOT of around 0730ish.
Now, of course, we were at a party the night of 31/01, on the scaley patch, and, of course, we had our suitcases and holdalls full of clothing etc. for a fortnights trip with us!

0600ish, Cue a gaggle of very hungover/ still tipsy groundcrew staggering to 3 shed and our squadron Hastings ready to depart on time, get on strap in, hold heads, and go
Next thing, airborne and then discover that an enterprising rigger had installed a keg of beer underfloor and had a tap in the cabin!! 1 shilling a plastic cup istr.

Needless to say there wasn't a big uptake between here and Malta, and, for anyone who hasn't tried a two day old beer between Luqa and Esenboga, let me tell you, it's horrible.
Regards, Den.

[chuks]

Well, when I see my OC Domestic rolling her eyes, then I think, "Hmmm... has she heard the one about 'the only aircraft to make it into Warri Airstrip in thick dust haze that day was mine!' before?" My cue to shut up, and that is me sober!

The thing was, my "When I" colleague could see that his tale was not causing my eyes to light with enthusiasm (after the 50th telling), then he put that down to simple incomprehension on my part. Then he would lean in closer and re-tell it louder, just trying to make me understand. The spit would fly so that I would end up posed like a limbo dancer, bent over backwards trying to stay dry. What booze can do!

The best one was a fellow dressed in flip-flops and a lava-lava, holding a cold, wet, pint bottle of Gulder that was slipping un-noticed downwards as he maundered on, in his cups. I kept trying to direct his attention to the oncoming disaster as he drunkenly persisted in his oft-told tale.

Finally, the neck portion of the bottle came down and made him lose his grasp; then the bottle fell, and hit the deck with a small explosion.

There he was then, posed in the middle of a three-foot circle of beer and shrapnel, goggling at what had suddenly come to pass. I told him, "Stand still!" but he just looked down, took a step, and added blood to the hellish mix.

[RampTramp]

Bunch of old farts travelling down the nostalgia trail and visiting their old station were shocked to the core to find that the NAAFI didn't serve any alcohol until 1700! Yes, times have changed!!!

[merlin1]

I remember the Gouthwaith event, v sad, my course had moved on to Valley not long before. Those were the "what's wrong with this picture" (QFI holding up empty hand) days when the studes bought all the beer; seems fair.
Anyone remember the last NATO Beer Call at Norvenich summer '75? I still deny setting fire to the 2 cars.

[Fareastdriver]

those living out were able to claim for a taxi

We used to have or Regiment drivers come out in a Trabant and takes us in. Ever tried to sit in one of those trying to keep you mess kit clean. After the festivities then you would use a taxi to get back home.

Strange how you would always see your Trabant going back to camp

[goudie]

"When I was on..." story twice or thrice


How true.
I've been having a convivial pint or two with an old work colleague, who is ex-navy, for over 20yrs or more. We're often asked what we find to talk about after so many years. ''The same things we talked about last week...and the week before'' is our reply. We came to a gentleman's agreement some years ago that we would not say 'You've already told me that story many times''.

[Pontius Navigator]

Somewhere around 70-71 a decree came out that any officer who lost his/her licence as a result of a drink driving conviction would also lose their commission as well. I don't think anyone really believed it until an Air Commodore medic or dentist (can't remember which) was chucked out after a breathalyser conviction.

Actually it was 1967 after a guest night at RAF Scampton. It was the SASO 1 Gp, Air Cmdr Boxer, an A1 bloke who, instead of having a driver hang around for hours said he would drive himself. He ran his car off the road and reported the accident to the police fully aware of the consequences.

He did the honourable thing and resigned his commission so as not to bring the RAF in to disrepute. As I said, honourable.

Since then drink-drive offences continued and as someone said, only in the last 15-20 years has public opinion swung firmly behind the law and against offenders.

[Chugalug2]

OAP:-
Do we need the booze or, is it a "culture" thing?
I think that the Service needed the booze, or more precisely its Units and Squadrons did. A TGIF booze up in the Squadron before the week-end bonded it together. Ditto the crew "after lander", or any other such informal celebration of the "ties that bind".

Of course the growing trend of car ownership versus that of bicycles or the use of public transport has increasingly made that custom unacceptable, together with the trend of Service life being just a job, or did I get that bit wrong?

[4mastacker]

Four pages in and no-one seems to have mentioned the drinking culture at MPA. It may have changed now, but in the early nineties I don't think there was a single section, flight or squadron which didn't have its own watering facilities. There were also (unofficial) bars in various parts of the domestic accommodation where one could get a drink if you didn't fancy getting mugged in the 38 Facility corridors on the way to the mess.

I joined as an Appo and even in the monastic life that was forced on us by the powers-that-be there were ways and means of testing the local brews. My first posting after training was Stafford and in all my time in the service, I have never encountered a station where alcohol seemed to dominate all the activities. Anyone who was posted to 16MU will understand why.

[Evalu8ter]

4Mast,
I was waiting for the MPA tales too...

Probably a bit too 'recent' to divulge all, but I do recall a massively shabby day post epic happy hour when the DetCo kicked me out of my scratcher at 0730 to complaints of 'it's a Saturday' and 'we're not on the flypro...' only to be told that both Sea Queens were u/s and the F3s wanted to go flying so we had to stand to as SAR cover. A very, very painful day sobering up on 78 Sqn.....

I've not been 'South' since 2000, but I understand many of the bars have been shut and those that remain have been sanitised. A shame, but perhaps indicative of the times we live in. That said, I happened to stop over at a top secret Oxon RW base a few weeks ago and was met by a 'proper' Sqn lunch in full swing - always helps when you've got nothing to fly the next day!!

[thing]

I joined early '70s and was of the opinion that the RAF ran on alcohol; which incidentally suited me to a tee as I used to enjoy a pint or six. There were incidents involving a/c then that I still don't think it would be right to divulge even after 40 years.

The forces are only reflecting what has happened in civvy street. Lincoln where I've lived for the last 21 years had a thriving pub community; now pubs are closing left right and centre; my own local has just been pullled down to make way for a block of flats. People sit at home and booze these days which I find a little odd, I always looked upon drinking as a social exercise.

Edit: I did MPA over the Xmas/New Year 94/95 and even as a confirmed drinker I was surprised at the drinking to get ratfaced culture rather than let's have a drink to be sociable and if we happen to get oiled then so be it. Drinking just to get drunk isn't what I drink for.

[Wander00]

Not service personnel drinking, but at MPA as the contractors were finishing the build they kept the workforce going 7 days a week except for one weekend a month when they got a day off, just to control drinking - they ran out of beer at one stage, so had the sight of two workers watching TV and drinking Liebfraumilch from the bottle, and eventually gently sliding from the chair to the floor, then to sleep it off

[NutLoose]

Lincoln, a nightclub, a bit more expensive to get in but free bar and buffet :O Squadron on detachment from Bruggen, peeps split up and wander in pairs. At the bar notice they have bottles of Beck, deflated to be told only pump beers and spirits on free bar, so order a pint of Bacardi and Coke :E
Normal at Bruggens naff 1, but not Lincoln apparently, look around the nightclub to see the rest of the Squadron also on pints on Spirits. They certainly never made any money that night.

[Onceapilot]

Years ago, consumption was partly limited by finance. Most service personel have had little limitation in that way for thirty-plus years. Seemed to me that the hardest drinking was coupled with the greatest stress/risk. Latterly, the clubbing type of culture has introduced a new dimension that I cannot keep up with!
At least a, pint-in-one or on-yer-ed, was something that I enjoyed from the first till the last. Better than the sausage in a cold plate of beans:\.

OAP

[gopher01]

As a new arrival at Akrotiri in December 1968 I was somewhat taken aback when, after being invited to the section Christmas do on the night I arrived (with the complication that it was at Berengaria and I had no idea where that was so the prospect of possibly having to find my way back to the camp put a little bit of a dampener on the evening), I was informed that the section bar was located in my barrack block so it might be a bit noisy over Christmas! On investigation in the daylight of my second day at Akrotiri I found one of the rooms in the block had been transformed into a perfectly formed drinking establishment, permanent bar and all.
It appeared that for the period from Christmas Eve until early January, sections could have a bar in their blocks and a Station competition was judged by the Station Commander and his minions to decide whose was the best and a prize awarded each year. I gather that as the Boss had a drink in each bar and Akrotiri had a lot of sections the final judging was normally carried out by O.C. OPS as the Boss was by that time not really capable.
The bars were open 24 hours a day for the whole period and as can be imagined some serious drinking took place over that period.
The only downside in the whole thing was that as we were the M.U. we were excluded from the competition as we were judged to have professional assistance as we had the chippies as part of the M.U. Just try doing that these days!

[BBadanov]

OAP: " Latterly, the clubbing type of culture has introduced a new dimension that I cannot keep up with!"

I agree with a lot that has been observed here of the developments over the past 40 years - community changes against drink driving, members living out, unfortunately dead messes (which was going to be a consequence from the other points), and even dining-ins almost becoming extinct. Maybe a lot of us saw the best years!!

From what I hear these days, the kids flying the 4.5 jets are really on the ball, and do not drink during the week. They save it for Thursday night (if no fly on Fri) and blitz out then in the Mess, the only night it is busy. It is now almost a binge drinking culture. We did it to a lesser extent each night, now it's a big blow-out at the end of the week.

That is my perspective from Oz - the land now of dead messes.

[RetiredBA/BY]

Well, its not just the military which HAD a drink culture, (and I remember getting airborne in a Canberra when some muppet called a TACEVAL very late one Friday evening, the whole squadron having been in the bar since about 5pm, amazingly we all got back without breaking anything !) Moving into civil aviation I was introduced to the after landing "chocktail; turn off the runway, the purser would appear with 'Brown milks' or champers !

Just can't imagine that happening now !!

[ricardian]

Gopher1 - those Akrotiri Christmas bars were quite special. Don't know about the Station Commander judging them though. I was there 1965-67 and never saw the diminuitive Air Commodore North-Lewis although I do recall seeing his photograph on the "know your enemy" display in SHQ.

[Firestreak]

Just after the Battle of Britain film came out, we (the Sqn that is) were talking to a Very Senior Officer who had fought in the battle, a really splendid gentleman who fully deserved his exalted rank.

The film laid great stress on how tired the crews were and we asked him if this was so. "Absolutely" was the reply but not for the reasons given in the film. Basically, they started the day before dawn and were there till dusk, they may have been scrambled or not. However, if you flew, there was a good chance someone may not come back. So, as soon as they were stood down they went to the pub/mess and got hammered with a very late bedtime, in his words:-

"If we hadn't done that, we probably couldn't have done the same again the next day"

Booze does have it's uses.

[langleybaston]

The Metmen in uniform as Mobile Met Unit at Stanley et al had a PORT drinking culture from all accounts.

The shift pattern was 24 hours on, 24 hours off; sometimes 24 hours on 12 hours off.

Even so, a great deal of Port went down the hatch. Fines were levied in Port, sometimes a case at a time. My good friends George P and Pete T [sadly both now deceased] and Dave T used to regale me with tales of pleasant excess.

At JHQ if the Metmen didn't necessarily fancy Mess happy hour we used the Belgy Bar or the Dutchy ............. the beers were piddling little glasses so we started the evening c. 1630 with nine glasses between three, and then had a relay system. The evening usually broke up when one of us went to the bar for the next lot, forgot what he was supposed to do, and wobbled off home on the bike for a "dinner is in the dog" welcome.

[Basil]

wobbled off home on the bike for a "dinner is in the dog" welcome
Or even (much) worse, announced (around midnight) "Everyone back to my quarter for eggy bacs!"
Astonishing what great hostesses (and actresses) service wives are - wouldn't ever have liked to be in the host's shoes after we left :E

[BEagle]

Or even (much) worse, announced (around midnight) "Everyone back to my quarter for eggy bacs!"

When a certain Irish F-4 navigator tried this, his French wife appeared from her bed upstairs, then without saying anything, picked up the largest carving knife in the kitchen and went back upstairs....

"Ahhh - cheers Bill, see you tomorrow!" his guests bravely commented, before legging it PDQ!

[cuefaye]

BBad ----

Recall your supposed altercation with David, the Base CO at Amberley, when introducing your wife at a DI Night :ok:

[Wensleydale]

The Metmen in uniform as Mobile Met Unit at Stanley et al had a PORT
drinking culture from all accounts.

When I was living on the Coastel at Stanley in 1985, it was common to leave the Officers' bar to find the Mobile Met Unit waiting in the dining room armed with tea-cups and a couple of bottles of port. Many sociable evenings were had with these fine gentlemen, although there were also a few shabby mornings.:ok::ouch:

[Pontius Navigator]

I could go on, but I think that many who were on Transports and V Force will recognise (with hindsight) just how heavy the drinking culture was.

That last has a clue - the post-flight crew wind down beer.

A multi-crew invites a convivial beer and a 5-man crew invites 5 beers. Just hoped no one started a second round.

With the switch to 2-man flight crews the rounds are shorter and you may not want to keep drinking 1 on 1 (people might talk) or with mixed crew (people might talk).

[BBadanov]

cuefaye: BBad ---- Recall your supposed altercation with David, the Base CO at Amberley, when introducing your wife at a DI Night http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

cuefaye, go easy, wasn't a wife, c1976, before the married era - just some SYT.

But slightly off topic as that was at the beginning of the night! He didn't like being introduced as "David", told me at 'coffee' the next work day it should be "Air Cdre"!! Oh, really....

BB

[smujsmith]

Having read a few of the foregoing inputs to this thread, the subject of the Akrotiri Block bar brings back some seriously amusing thoughts. I was posted to Akrotiri in August 1973. A Jnr Tech it was my second posting since leaving Halton. I was still single at this point and was accommodated in a four man room in the old, sub standard side of the accommodation area. Whilst the posh side had the Peninsular Club etc, we had a WRVS club (home of the weekly country club) and NAAFI bar. All good stuff, but I digress.

The room I was alloted was shared with two, like myself, hard working, learning to drink fellow airmen Gary and John, both SACs working on Bomber wing. Gary a Radio Mech, John an Airframe Mech. The fourth bed space in the room had an empty locker and bed. Stay with me, it's relevant! It's about two weeks before Christmas 1973 and Gary and John have gone out for a night in Limassol. We had been discussing a theme for a block bar, none of the other rooms in the block had plans for one, and we thought, with having the spare bed space we could do something. Saturday morning, I wake up alone. No Gary or John, an all nighter was not that unusual. And then they arrived.

Gary had a sack over his back, in it was a "spaniel" sized pig that was screaming away like a banshee. Still obviously the worse for wear from the night out they explained the plan. We were to enter the block bar competition as "The Pigs Bar", complete with authentic pig. Jackie Grunt, as we came to know him was corralled in the spare bed space using packing cases etc. a rough bar was put together and the whole block contributed to the purchase of bar stock. Jackie Grunt was fed on a daily basis from leftovers everyone scrounged from our "sub standard" mess. All was well, he even settled into a routine after a couple of days and allowed us to sleep at night. My previous experience of working on a farm ensured the room didn't get too "whiffy". Fame began when a whole VC10 crew arrived to see the pig, it seems that somehow it had got back to Brize, they duly had a crew photo at the bar, and off they went. Over the following days/nights we had Hercules and Brittania crews visiting from the UK, plus many local Squadron Crews 9, 35, 56, 70 and 84.

Christmas Eve arrived, as I remember a Monday, and judging day for the block bars. The Station Commander, Air Commodore D P Hall, was to visit as many bars as possible, and select the best. As we had finished work at our usual 1300 hours, the bar was in full swing, with Gary deciding to allow Jackie Grunt a pint of Keo (or two). With loud Beatles stuff coming from the record player, it was going a treat. Around 1900 "the Staish" arrived to check us out. It was only as he walked in that we realised two things. His wife was accompanying him and the pig had stopped oinking. In fact the pig, by now as drunk as a (Skunk)? had collapsed in the middle of the floor, lying alongside him, bollock naked and an arm around Jackie was Gary, happily out of his tree. "The Staish" and wife graciously accepted a swift half, said not a word about the pig and the airman on the floor and then made their exit, what a Lady and Gentleman. The Sgt Policeman who arrested Gary, for attempted bestiality, was not so gentlemanly and off they went to the guardroom for the formal procedure. The pig lasted until the new year, when the RAFP obviously remembered that there had been a pig involved. I believe that the Station Commander had intervened in charges, and Gary was let off with a warning. A week later he and John were given 24 hours to remove the pig from the unit. Which they did.

I'm sorry to drift from the serious topic of the drinking culture, but mention of the Akrotiri Christmas block bars brought that back to me. I don't know if anyone remembers the " Akrotiri Pig", I certainly remember it, the crews from all over who had to "see it to believe it", and did, would surely remember it. I heard at the time that it had been mentioned in both the Lyneham Globe and the Brize Gateway ? Magazines. 4 months later, I was married and left the block, with the coup, invasion and subsequent run down of what was a fabulous station I never saw either Gary or John again. But I always have a little chuckle when I see a "spaniel" sized pig.

Smudge

[newt]

You may call this a culture but in my time it was a way of life!

It was also a way of life in the civilian longhaul operation!

Things have changed and that is up to the individuals now engaged in the flying game. In my day they would have been called "whimps" if they did not join in the happy hour celebrations or the tree party!
But that's another story.

I loved the flying, the drinking and the socialising! Great times and wonderful memories!:ok:

[500N]

Smudge

That has to be one of the best mess stories I have ever heard.

I have known CO's / OC's to totally ignore / step over things that are so
out of place as your Staish and his wife did but that is a good story.

[smujsmith]

500N,

No story, it's the truth, Honest. I'm sure one of our fellow posters will confirm it !

Smudge

[dkh51250]

Smudge, the pig may have been a relative of Waddo Raven Clubs "Pig of the week" awarded in the Sunday evening disco during the late 60s early 70s.

Bars had always been open during exercises, until, for no apparent reason, all bars were ordered to close down half way through one. Some years later, telling this tale to a colleague who started to laugh. He advised that this was attributable to his brother in law who had been stationed at Scampton at the time.

Apparently the night shift had sought refuge in the Rugby Club during their supper break. Returning to work, the BiL decided to "borrow" a flying jacket from one of the aircrew. Unbeknown to him, the jacket contained a very very important document. The ensuing hue and cry resulted in closure of all bars on all V stations from that point onwards during exercises.

However, one particular Taceval, cannot recall which part, but it was the one the station were given notice of, someone decided it would be a good idea to bring everyone in on the Sunday lunchtime in readiness for the hooter. Damn fine idea totally overlooking the fact that as no exercise had been called the pigs bar was open as usual. The only difference being they were stood four deep at the bar all the way through to 2pm closing, singlies, scaleys, all filling their boots. Even after that, sufficient supplies had been purchased to ensure a jolly afternoon was had by all. I cannot remember what time the hooter went, but I do remember lots of people being herded into crewrooms to sleep off their enjoyment. Funny old thing, they never brought us in early again.

[Onceapilot]

Oh dear, pigs in bars!
Then, of course, there was the "Pig and Tapeworm" at Deci :).

OAP

[1.3VStall]

Ah, "The Pig & Tapeworm" at Deci, to borrow a line from Maurice Chevalier - I remember it well!

[Wholigan]

I remember it well!


I thought the Pig and Tape was like the 60s .............. if you remember it, you weren't there!

[TT2]

There has been a sea change in the boozing culture : When I arrived in the mob we were all wee baby boys determined to succeed, so heads in books. Can't do that with a hangover. Holidays were for chasing snatch and getting drunk.

By the time you'd been through the system and actually been posted off to an operational station the booze just flowed and flowed. It was silly really and I'm no prude. The longest serving officers were the worst offenders.

Into civvie aviation and a company with some senior pilots who were ex FAA - I'd say they all had a serious drink problem in today's terms. Sundays, if not on standby, all would meet up at a designated home / apartment at lunchtime. those guys would have started on the gin before the morning coffee and it showed by 1500.......Their wives, alas were in the habit of trying to keep up to the extent when hubby / bidie in' was on a night stop would do a bottle a night.
I personally knew two guys who arrived home to find their wives dead.
(It's the bleeding out from the stomach / throat due to continual alcohol abuse).

Another guy I knew, lost his medical due to alcohol problems, was being taken care of by his wife who was a pilot also - she drank and drank. Top lady and an excellent pilot. She ended up banged up for 3 years after killing a pedestrian whilst driving home from the pub..........they let her out after a year and she promptly got her job back. Didn't drink again, ever. Hubby had died when she was in pokey.

The problem with grog is that it so insidious in catching folks - I've been there after my divorce and getting it down to sensible levels is no easy task.
(Even as I speak Mrs TT2 is scoffing a bottle of Leo and me a Chang, but we are out for scoff in a few minutes and there won't be any more beer tonight. )

Coming from a trawling city, which became the Scottish Oil Klondike, the sheer havoc caused by folks hitting the beach and proceeding to get utterly smashed became a nuisance - whether fishers or offshore workers.

These days - if I decide to fly, then it is a full 24 hours alcohol free.
Mind you, if I'm down the back and not driving then keep the bacardis coming. One gets bored.........

[Basil]

TT2, "bidie in"
Don't see that one much on here :}

[OutlawPete]

The drinking culture has definitely evolved the the right direction as in it is far less prevalent now than it was 20 years ago. It is, however one of the ways we bond. Friendships are formed, trust is gained and good times are had, usually by all. There's no reason at all for it not to continue in it's current moderated form and for the most part people are sensible enough these days to have booked a day after a planned sesh.

"Alcohol. ..the cause of and the answer to, all of life's little problems! " - Homer Simpson

[FAStoat]

I spent some years being trained to out drink the Crabs.At Greenham one year it was decided to send out a Recce for a Red Sparrow Hunt.The Crimson Crabs were no longer in the same Hotac as the rest of us,after trying to win a Cocktail Competition previously.The Recce party duly returned having found same with their Red MGBGTs(Courtesy of BMC)parked in formation on the pan outside their lodgings.Armed with masking tape,mackerels and herrings,potatoes,the Boss led us to spike them!The deed was done and the results were expected at Briefing the following AM.Absolutely nothing was mentioned,except a challenge in the OC later after the Display,together with a few of the Yanks who were up for it.Happy days,and the mention of the Port in the North,brought further memories of later Airline flying when forced to go to the "Runway" for steak and chips ,and heavies, to find an entire Bar full of Chopper Pukes partying the night away.I thought I had left that behind in the ACN Crew Room flying for "Big Oggas",a few years before.I think we all worked hard,and so played hard.
Memories are also aroused of the Late John Blake,who was an excellent raconteur and drinker.At one Farnborough,at the Queens Hotel,we had drunk all the Beer,when John appeared with a gigantic Silver Salvour,into which he poured Champers and Guiness,with which the night passed into obscurity.I could not stand Black Velvet after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Only other memory was the Philosan Four won the Formation Aerobatic Trophy,or was that at Greenham!!!!!!!?

[NutLoose]

14 Sqn had "The Naked Ninja"

During a detachment to Gibraltar a couple of the guys were invited on to a RN Frigate where drinking ensued, one of the guys returned with an Anti Flash Mask.

Lying in bed after a heavy session the door burst open and in storms "The Naked Ninja" totally bollock naked bar the white anti flash hood, screams AwwwwHHHHHH "The Naked Ninja" strikes, adopts a kung fu'ie type pose, then is gone leaving us all bemused.
Roll on a few days and the police bar is booked for the leaving party, the police bar was one of those buildings that had wooden bars across the ceiling running down it's length and the ceiling painted black to give the illusion of a lower more cosy room height... anyway the party was in full swing when in storms "The Naked Ninja" followed by his Banshee scream, up he hops on the bar waving his parts at everyone and then starts to swing from beam to beam as he sets off down the room, several beams in a loud crack is heard ( and seen ) "The Naked Ninja" complete with artifical ceiling comes crashing down.... The police investigation begins into who is "The Naked Ninja" who wrecked their bar...... I do not believe he was found, the Aircrew when departing found all of their bicycle saddles missing, so set off across the runway home sadleless where they are stopped by the said police who try to arrest them, I believe the boss was waiting in the Staishes outer office before he got in to explain the nights entertainment before he heard it from his staff.. :E

[FJJP]

I remember the incident well. I was holding at Bawtry as OC Accts prior to the Big Delta OCU at Finningley. On the Mon morning after said DiN, SASO appeared in my office with a clearance chit !in person!

The details are largely correct, although I believe the DiN was at waddo.

[Al R]

Pete,

I agree - I have a two or three beers now and I'm mellow enough.. thats good enough for me. In the 80s and 90s especially, we used to do things that were good (at the time), but now, looking back.. they were just plain wrong and an abrogation of personal and professional responsibility. I remember the good times that revolved around booze, but if things had gone wrong, it'd be a different story.

I still like hanging one on, but only on the exception and not the rule - and if it has been a long week, I enjoy unwinding with a couple of decent beers, a nice bottle of Reisling, Southern Comfort, Llagavulin or G&T but my brain has finally caught up with my body. I'll enjoy a few this weekend watching the final Test and the Singles finals but booze (now) supports a good day and isn't the precursor of one.

We would sometimes be pulled in long before first light, de-bomb, clean weapons, hand in, and be half cut on cocktail brandy before nosebag. The next day, we'd be out again for 7-14 days.. it was what we did. Good times with some great people. I remember once, being told to get into the driver's compartment in a Scorpian in flip flops and Ron Hills in order to respond to an Arab ground attack, with 'x' pints of local finest inside me.

I don't mean to sound sanctimonious; I wish I could go back to some of those piss ups! But I'm pleased I can't - I'm just glad I can look back on them a) at all, and b) with fondness.

The drinking culture has definitely evolved the the right direction as in it is far less prevalent now than it was 20 years ago. It is, however one of the ways we bond. Friendships are formed, trust is gained and good times are had, usually by all. There's no reason at all for it not to continue in it's current moderated form and for the most part people are sensible enough these days to have booked a day after a planned sesh.

"Alcohol. ..the cause of and the answer to, all of life's little problems! " - Homer Simpson

[phantomstreaker]

The Naked Ninja is similar to our own Phantomstreaker, a mystical creature who would appear at random formal functions from behind a curtain or side door. He would run stark naked balls and all through the said function wearing only a Zorro typeface mask.

The alleged guilty suspect would of course at the next function be in full conversation with the WO and SENGO who would scream blue murder that they thought you were the guilty airman.

Final appearances could be seen at RAF Cosford in the Cpls Club leaning naked against the bar with a pint.

Rumours have it he still comes out of retirement at Bruntingthorpe from time to time.......:ok:

[goudie]

Many pitfalls mentioned here when under the influence. This one I sorely remember.
Tumbling out of a bar in the Bukit Timah road in the early hrs. Hail some beaten up Merc taxi and in we get, with me in the front asking. ''How much to Tengah?'' ''$20 John'', came the reply. '' 'We're not paying that much, right chaps all out'' I cry.
Out I leap from the taxi only to see it speed off with my three mates! The road now looks deserted so I start walking, eventually a taxi stops ''you want taxi John?''. In I get, rather thankfully, I'm on duty in three hours time. Arrive at Tengah. ''How much?'' ''$30 please.'' I quietly pay up! :{ At work when the chaps ask how I got back I mumble something about cadging a lift:O Forking out $30 instead of 5...hurt!

[Saintsman]

I was 16 1/2 when I joined (and looked it) but was immersed straight into the drinking culture and by the time I was 18, was well able to keep up with the pros. I remember being woken up at the crack of dawn by the sound of the birds chirping as they fought for the bits after being sick out of the barrack block window (because it was nearer than the toilets). There was several of us that were all under age on the squadron and we were all exactly the same. Living in, you spent the evenings in the pub or the NAAFI. The only time you didn't drink was on nights and you couldn't make supper. We looked after each other though and everybody got home to bed at the end of the night and we made sure we were all up for work the next day.

Detachments and beer calls were also good for a 3-man lift or a game of spoons. They were fun. Never saw anything like it in civvy street though.

Glory days? Well maybe, but I didn't have much to show for all the money I earnt afterwards. If it'd been todays prices, I'm not sure we would have drunk so much though. Maybe another reason the culture has changed.

[TT2]

Basil:
Strangely, 'Bidie in' is still used amongst certain segments. Seems a bit more polite than 'Hired housekeeper harlot' :)

[Pontius Navigator]

Goudie reminds me, and it could even have been TTN :} but we fell in with a bad crowd somewhere in Singapore. I don't remember the details (to spare the guilty blushes), but the night seemed to start trying to get some beers and the 'best' place was a brothel.

Coming down the stairs one night we met a bunch of Aussies coming up. We tried to stop them as the place was a dead loss. We almost came to blows.

At the next venue we again met the Aussies coming up the stairs. As they now realised we were friend and not foe we fell in and set off.

At some point we joined up with a Victor 1 crew.. A few beers later, and the Victor captain in charge, piled in to this taxi with instructions to take us to a live porn show. There followed a wild tour of the less salubrious parts of Singapore with the taxi driver stopping frequently trying to find a show.

Eventually we arrived at a timber yard where it turned out there was a blue movie. We're not paying said the Victor tanker captain as you didn't take us where we wanted to go. I have no idea if he was paid.

Anyway, in the yard, we entered this small room, benches made of sawn timber log cuts and a flickering Super 8 camera illuminating two white civilians in long-sleeved white shirts and trousers. The Victor and Vulcan crew chiefs!

[goudie]

PN Yes, know what you mean. A couple of us sneaked into a porn film show in some dodgy place down by the docks. When the lights went up half the bloody squadron was there!

[NutLoose]

First night in Bruggen we ended up in the local Brothel, not by choice I may add, having piled out of the NAAFI us newbies asked a taxi driver to take us to somewhere where the bar was open and there were a few girls, straight into Elmpt and dropped off we walked into a darkened room and up to the bar, camera flickered into life showing a porn movie, and a load of semi clad women appeared............ the penny dropped LOL and we beat a hasty retreat.

[Pontius Navigator]

As I said, like Nutloose, only there for the beer and then led astray by a tanker crew.

[NutLoose]

:p of course you were

[goudie]

Sounds a bit like the 'Screws of the World' journalist's standard line when investigating brothels, dodgy night clubs etc. 'When we were offered sex, we made our excuses and left!':rolleyes:

[Rossian]

......I remember that for the denoument of the evening (early morning hours??).
No crappy movies for us - the live thing. Towards the end the rather bored looking girls asked if anyone wanted to be the centre piece of the finale. The co (why is always the co? young and stupid I suppose) lurched up onto the "stage thingy" and fell forward through the flimsy wall into the next cubicle. He sort of bounced back into our bit followed by the top half of naked and very angry Chinee (obviously interrupted on the vinegar stroke) shouting "I going to fl**king kill you" and looking as if he reeeeeely meant it. Cue the crew grabbing to co who was half out of his trou and tumbling down the stairs and fleeing into the night giggling fit to bust. It was a long walk most of the way back to Tengah.

Bugis street is very sanitised nowadays my wife thought it was a bit dull but the food was OK-ish. Oh well.

The Ancient Mariner

[pontifex]

I keep reading about how things have become much less boozy in the past 20 years. I left 25 years ago and I thought how tame it had become then!

By the way the Gouthwaite guy was not "pissed", he was found to have traces of alcohol in his blood. He was one of the first batchelors to take advantage of the ability to live out. One of the opinions was that, had he been living in, there would have been peer pressure to keep him in line. I was unaware of a subsequent blitz on drinking but there was a great deal of information made available about the rate at which alcohol metabolises in the body and we were given the ability to calculate at what time to stop drinking after the quantity consumed against the time to airborne. Got very complicated - I could never manage it.

[Herod]

Roughly three hours per pint of the standard stuff, and even that would trigger the alarms in civil aviation nowadays. Most beers now seem to be about double that strength.

[1.3VStall]

Wholigan,

Ref your post #88, are you saying I'm going senile? Now where did I put my slippers........?:)

[Mk 1]

Interesting expression Pontifex: By the way the Gouthwaite guy was not "pissed", he was found to have traces of alcohol in his blood.

Infantry back in the late 80's I think it was an offence to be found with traces of blood in your alcohol.

Ex Caltrop Force was an exercise in California early 1989 to test interoperability. On ex were the 7th Inf Div (light), our hosts in Monterey Cal, 2 Para from the poms, the Canuks sent 3PPCLI and there was us 6 RAR from Australia. Back home in Brisbane, the Officers Mess bar was a place of parade after work - you had to be there and woe betide anyone who wasn't married sneaking out before 6pm. Most session lasted until - well, who reads the time anyway when they are hammered.

Nearly every Aussie unit had an Officers Mess, Sgt's Mess and diggers club. It was part of the culture. When we arrived at Fort Ord - the entire division had just 1 O Club - surprise number 1. When asked why there were so few people frequenting the place (seemed fairly decent) surprise number 2 was you got reported to the base Drug and Alcohol rehab service if you were found in the place more than a couple of times a month.

Of course, that didn't stop us or the poms from being there every night for a few (we were on our mostly best behaviour) - I guess you could say that was a foretaste of the way things are going in today's military. Not quite as restrictive at the US policies, but instead of subbies getting full of the idiot soup and heading out on the town, nowadays they are as likely to grab some energy drinks and settle down to some online gaming. Probably good skills practice for modern warfare...

I got out of the military fairly young - first thing I did was to stop the grog altogether for a year - I could see that I was possibly heading down the wrong (dependancy) path. Still enjoy the odd red wine or beer or two now - just nowhere near the same quantities as when I was young and stupid/pickled.

[langleybaston]

VINEGAR STROKE !

Not heard that expression in 50 years!

Oh Oh!

[teeteringhead]

you got reported to the base Drug and Alcohol rehab service Similar-ish thing happened to a chum of mine on a USAF exchange in the (?) late 80s.

Questions were asked when word got around that wifey had a G&T waiting for him after work every day!! :eek:

[TT2]

PN : Where I used to live in BKK the only foreigners were a French guy, ex para, and a great laugh, meself and this moaning English sod who'd met his Thai wife in a whorehouse in Singapore.

A lot of the gals over the way used to work in the 'Happy House' - a mere 5 minute walk away and one minute from Bumrumgrad hospital. (R&R?). So, on Sunday afternoons we'd take a stroll up for beer and watch the fish bowl as the clientel was about 90% muslim. Funny as bits.

Eventually the gaffer decided that we were driving too much business away and paid us to go elsewhere - a real score, being paid not to come back.

He told a Tuk Tuk where to take us, ten minutes away. Never had noticed the place before. It was called 'Campbell's' which cracked us up. Me being a Scot an' all.........Transpired the Mama San was the laundry lady where we lived. Great Fun.

Spent Hogmanay 1997 locked in there with an American pal - they locked the doors at 10pm and the party began. We weren't there for services, but just a 'Hello' (And the beer was super cheap). What a laugh. Pizza and rum for brekkies anyone with a bunch of mostly semi clad duskies?. Some not clad at all. Can't make it up. (And they are volunteers before the sex police and social workers here decide to have a say).

[Pontius Navigator]

TT, on one trip, this Calvanistic Scot (not a co-pilot) asked his crew where to go.

To a man they said the "Wankee" massage parlour in JB. They made the name up on the spot. Off he trotted to, where else, the Wankee massage parlour!

[Fareastdriver]

English sod who'd met his Thai wife in a whorehouse in Singapore.

It is amazing, as anyone who been in the Far East for any time will know, how many girls end up marrying their clients.

[kintyred]

I spent a few years on exchange with the Air Force of one of our European neighbours where alcohol was stored unsecured behind the bar in the crewroom and night flying always ended with a few beers for aircrew and groundcrew together. Likewise ceasework on Friday. There was never any intention of getting drunk, it was just a social gathering and a great mixer for all ranks. A refreshing change from Brit drinking "culture"!

[OutlawPete]

Has anyone tried Windswept Brewing Co's new Tornado beer? Keep hearing good things about it, named after the jet of course!

[goudie]

I'm still on the 'Spitfire'.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJz581_ChTSJq7R9Jht0TKA6jParfWIJSNf-VsUa5j1AS8vk_Ysg

[500N]

"the Officers Mess bar was a place of parade after work"

Very much the case.


I noticed a change in the drinking culture of the Aust Armed forces
around the same time the RAF stories on here portray. But up until
the late 80's in any unit I served in, mess at lunch and afterwards
in quantity for Regular army seemed to be standard.

[SRENNAPS]

Well I have just spent a week in Munich on business and I have just proved that my drinking culture and work hard, play hard ethics still exist big time :E:E

But I am looking forward to the flight home later today :)

Some great posts here, thanks :D:ok:

[Bladdered]

Anyone here at Saxa Vord in the early 80s - OCA bringing his shotgun to happy hours so we could blast bottles and cans off the barbed wire fence through the bar windows. Driving Gertie, the mess singlies crew bus - eventually got grounded by the local bobby who threatened to bring in reinforcements to enable him to breathalise the drunks returning from the Baltitowers (Baltasound Hotel) after lockin at 3 in the morning. And then they sent me to Laarbruch to dry out :)

[SRENNAPS]

Home now!!

I must admit that as a result of this thread I was able to talk the barmaid in our Munich Hotel to serve the following drinks to my Civvie work colleagues:

Pink Polar Bears
Tizers
Jägermeister
Dracular
Apple and Pear Schnapps
Spicy Rum
and God knows what else.

Had a great few nights and proof of the pudding that the drinking culture still exists when away on a jolly still exists :O:O:O:O

[cuefaye]

AAh the Jagermeister - always a good way to finish the session!

[Pontius Navigator]

One thing I always remember from training was the SDO/OO set up. I think by the time I entered the real world it was a single duty. In training though the OO was one of the student sprogs and the SDO an old (mid-30s?) flt lt who could be found in the appropriate civvies of the day propping up one end of the bar. It was a habit I always applauded until armed guarding came in :(.

[Onceapilot]

"The SDO is to drink mildly". circa 1982

OAP

[NutLoose]

Tizer cocktail recipes and drink recipes (http://www.cocktailmaking.co.uk/displayingredient.php/2320-Tizer)


:)

[BEagle]

NutLoose, that link flags up a security threat warning - I suggest you delete it...:=

[NutLoose]

It doesn't on my iPad, it's simply a cocktail site.

Anyone else getting a prob? If so I'll whip it down.

1measure Bacardi
1 measure vodka
1 measure blackcurrent
Top up with lemonade

[Willard Whyte]

"The SDO is to drink mildly". circa 1982

OAP "The Orderly Officer cannot be drunk". circa 1995 (EGDL)

So, even after spending the entire evening in the bar, drinking bottles of red wine and many G&Ts, the OO was never drunk, yer 'onour.

I believe OO rules were re-written some time afterwards.

[ralphmalph]

"The Orderly Officer is to drink in moderation"

[MightyGem]

Anyone else getting a prob? If so I'll whip it down.
Works OK here.

[Haraka]

Yes, but the site seems to uplift some of your Facebook data......

[glad rag]

Hmm Ghostery gives pprune a big knockback indeed only reverting to whiteboarding the site gets any kind of graphic layout back......trackers listed below

DoubleClick
eXelate
Google Analytics
InternetBrands
ScoreCard Research Beacon
SkimLinks
Tacoda

:suspect:

[NutLoose]

Now I'm lost, so take the link down?

[glad rag]

Not your stuff mate.

"baggage" :oh:

[Haraka]

Like Nutters, I'm now totally baffled. Anybody care to illuminate our darkness?
:eek:

[BEagle]

Tell you what, Haraka, I cannot believe that it's now 43 years since we had that fabulous ULAS Summer Camp at RAF Thorney Island.... Illicit doggers over the Isle of Widget and all that....;)

Ever since then, the RAF went downhill. I'm so glad that you and I and the other ULAS mates were able to see some of the last of the Glory Days....:\

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

"The Orderly Officer is to drink in moderation"

There used to be a pub in Reading called the Moderation. Had visions of gangs of No1-clad officers merrily getting slaughtered, and entirely in accordance with regs...

[BEagle]

Hmm Ghostery gives PPRuNe a big knockback indeed only reverting to whiteboarding the site gets any kind of graphic layout back......trackers listed below....

In English?

[Wensleydale]

"The SDO is to drink mildly". circa 1982

"Another pint of mild please, barman"!

[smujsmith]

Oh crikey, someone has just resurrected a proper British pint. Mild, or the occasional Mild and Bitter, PFM when a thirst needs quenching. Nicely remembered sir.

Smudge:ok:

[Fitter2]

"The Orderly Officer is to drink in moderation"

There used to be a
pub in Reading called the Moderation. Had visions of gangs of No1-clad officers
merrily getting slaughtered, and entirely in accordance with regs...

Still is, just South of Caversham Bridge. I assume it was so named so one could claim truthfully to drink only in Moderation...

[ShyTorque]

The death knell for the drinking culture was sounded when the QFI on an early morning weather check did an ultra low level run along Gouthwaite Reservoir and buried a wingtip in the water. He was found to be still half pissed after a heavy and late night on the booze.

Not sure how they deemed him to be "half pissed" because he was killed in the accident - in fact he drowned. I was on the JP course at Linton at the time and I remember it quite well and could give his name but I won't. It was 1977 I think, or possibly '78. It occurred on a very still morning with no wind, so the lake surface was like a mirror. He dug a wingtip in as he rolled into a turn and the JP cartwheeled into the water.

I also remember that someone proposed a toast to his memory at dinner in the Mess the same evening.

[1.3VStall]

Brags,

It's 44 years since MUAS (son of MASUAS) summer camped at that idyllic location. Happy days indeed!

[RetiredF4]

If you allow me to contribute...

My homestation Bremgarten was often used by our british phantom friends as last gas station on the way south or on the return north. What amazed me even more than the drinking culture was the way the bill was handeled.
Taking a seat at the bar in the officers mess each crew member deposited a fifty DM below the glass and every order was payed from that deposit until it had depleted to zero, upon that time it was eagerly filled up again without discussion.

[BruisedCrab]

The Cat, RetiredF4, the Cat!

[Pontius Navigator]

I think BEeag's web alert had to do with the website name c0ckt^ail

[BEagle]

Nope. Trend Micro Titanium identified malware which flagged up a HTML_IFRAME.ZDA alert concerning that Tizer site and canned it!

HTLM_IFRAME.ZDA is the Trend Micro detection notification for web pages that have been compromised through the insertion of a certain IFRAME tag.

[aw ditor]

ISTR in 1958 there was an entry in the 2TAF Confidential Order Book to the effect that "Officers shall not arrive at the Hook of Holland drunk" One arrived at the Hook' via the well stocked' leave train system (Red, Blue, etc etc). Probably a hangover (sorry) from when Squadrons took leave as units and the war reparations boat' went Harwich-Hook-Harwich, with no stabilisers! Dutch Courage' for the North Sea crossing?

[NutLoose]

I seem to remember one had to be careful when driving back to the UK as the washer bottle was often filled with Vodka as it was cheaper to purchase than windscreen wash and was sometimes overlooked, but not by customs.

[Pontius Navigator]

Another thought, perhaps not as relevant with OOA, fewer aircraft and even fewer stations, but ever done the 'where have we met before?' routine?

Transit mess bar (Transit Mess!) at Luqa. After a few of their incomparable brandy sours me and my drinking companion at the time 'visited' just about every aircraft type, station and unit to try and figure out where we had met and why each was so familiar to the other but couldn't remember where.

After a few more stiff lemonades the penny dropped.

We had been drinking in the self same bar the night before!

[teeteringhead]

I seem to remember one had to be careful when driving back to the UK as the washer bottle was often filled with Vodka as it was cheaper to purchase than windscreen wash and was sometimes overlooked, but not by customs. One remembers being a young newly married living in private accommodation in Gűtersloh town. Thought my German neighbour was going to have a heart attack one day when he saw me de-icing the windscreen with a bottle of vodka.

But then I think it was NAAFI Vodka @ 5 DM a litre, while Halfords anti/de-icing fluid (also from NAAFI) was something like 7.50 DM for 500 ml. You do the math(s).

And the FFR then was 5.5 DM to the £ ..... :{

[Neptunus Rex]

Shy Torque,
At the time of that accident, I was a QFI on the same Squadron as the deceased, who was on a Staff Continuation Training sortie, flying solo. I was airborne at the same time, and the weather was seductive - clear skies, calm wind plus haze and mist with the sun low on the horizon. Gouthwaite Reservoir was flat calm, making low flying over it potentially dangerous without a Radar Altimeter. The pilot in question was the most experienced low-level Jet Provost pilot at Linton, having had a previous tour as a Staff Pilot on the JP at Nav School.
A sad and unnecessary loss made worse for his family because his brother died just weeks before his accident.

[Top Bunk Tester]

ISTR a couple of lineys who were members of the RAFC Bubbly Club and fully qual'd divers went up there to ascertain if the seat was still live and to pin it if poss, I believe they found the unfortunate on the bottom still strapped to a live seat in situ. The seat was duly pinned and the recovery began.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I remember flying LL down Loch Etive just after dawn on an utterly calm, clear summer morning. Totally impossible to judge height, and I was stone cold sober. The radalt was working fine as we left land, but I reset the pressure alt just in case. Fantastically beautiful, but potentially lethal. I doubt that booze had much to do with it. RIP

[Pontius Navigator]

Dawn over Lake Garda, glassy surface and descending below 200 feet at 300 kts in the mighty V. Only the loss of range on the radar queued me in to the height.

[Wander00]

Fox3 - Loch Etive - one of my favourite places on earth, where I spent one of the happiest fortnights of my life. I am so please the Loch and particularly you, were unscathed

[Haraka]

Just as an historical aside, before Radalts existed.
One technique used by pilots of such aircraft as Baltimores over the Mediterranean, easing in to low level( and low level at night) over a still sea, was to wind the trailing radio aerial right out.
The splashes of the tip of this skipping over the sea were visible in the rear view mirror.
(An analogous technique to this but using trailing wires and weights actually linked to mechanically closing the throttle and easing in up elevator was also used in the very earliest experiments in U.K. -pre-dating auto land systems and dating from the early 1920's).

Back to the bar .

[Fareastdriver]

Bombing across the water near the shoreline of a Norwegian Fiord in a Puma in the seventies. Nothing spectacular, 40-50 ft. or so on the radalt. Allofasudden it sprang up to 200+.

The water was flat calm and it had started pinging off the bottom.

[Haraka]

Similar stories from Vulcan mates in the Far East. Flying at 200' radalt but suddenly surrounded by birds leaping up out of the forest canopy.

[BEagle]

I understand that the Tornado GR1 needed a software tweak due to erroneous results from the system when flying over the fine powder sand of parts of the desert during OP GRANBY work-up training?

In 1989, I was authorised for a 300' m.s.d VC10K sunset ceremony flypast. Running in, concentrating on flying the right speed to hit the target on time, the line looked spot on but I thought we seemed rather low even with 500' indicated on the altimeter. The VC10K didn't have a rad alt back then (I don't know if it subsequently did) and I eased up a bit as we approached the parade, before flying over the Officers' Mess. I can still picture our trusty mate-on-the-roof-with-wireless, young 'Humper', cowering visibly as we whistled overhead. I thought about pressure error and various other nonsense - then as we flew over Cartoontown, the penny dropped. We'd been loafing around the local area on RPS and in all the frantic activity to sort out the bandmasters 60 sec timing error, I hadn't reset QFE := ......

Brize has an elevation of 288'.... As they say "Do the maths.....".

Still, the boss and the rest of the punters thought it looked epic!

[ralphmalph]

Coast out- Baralt to Radalt!

Otherwise it can be scary...even by day!

[Pontius Navigator]

Similar stories from Vulcan mates in the Far East. Flying at 200' radalt but suddenly surrounded by birds leaping up out of the forest canopy.

Not birds but we discovered the Alt 7 was pinging off the ground whereas the Alt 6 was pinging off the top of the canopy. Tall trees there!

[PPRuNeUser0139]

In a Shack, the clue to v low level was propwash. Saw it just the once - and that was once too many!

[Wander00]

Remember a low level Gnat trip going down the east coast looking for a railway station in the fens near the wash ranges - me getting agitated as cannot see the target - quiet voice from the back " go back up to 200' and you will see it" You know what, he was right! At debrief reckoned we had got down to 50' as the eye and brain got used to the speed and so crept lower and lower.

[teeteringhead]

In a Shack, the clue to v low level was propwash. Saw it just the once - and that was once too many! Felt Shack propwash once when our Desert Survival Course was "visited" by a Shack, some of whose sqn members were on the same Course.

Indignation at having ones para-teepee blown away was ameliorated somewhat by the delivery shortly thereafter of a Lindholme Container of cold Amstel!! :ok:

[I guess that's low flying AND drinking culture!]

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Got a Shack visit on our annual sea survival drill, which as a deployment squadron we did in Cyprus.;). Our waterborne bronzy session was interrupted by an unasked-for Shack. Each pass got lower. Then there was a dinghy drop which practically hit one guy on the head.We all spontaneously decided that miniflares might make useful micro-SAMs, which had the desired effect of getting the Shackmen back up to dangerously low. Come happy hour we discovered that they were indeed trying to hit us with the dinghies, and so considered the miniflares a fair cop.

[charliegolf]

One remembers being a young newly married living in private accommodation in Gűtersloh town.

I was about to ask you when, TH, to see if i was there at the same time. Then I saw the FFR- mine was only 4:1. Still a great tour (1983 ish) though.

CG

[teeteringhead]

76-78 for me CG.

[pontifex]

On my final nav test on Harvards in Canada in1957 when on the lo level leg (250 agl) I remember the testing QFI remarking that he had never seen a 250 ft high chicken coop before. I think he was enjoying it because I got 98%.

[Neptunus Rex]

teeteringhead
If that was from Sharjah circa 1970, then I was flying the Shack!
As a point of interest, we spotted flashes from the heliograph miles out - before we saw the coloured smoke.

Neppie
:cool:

[Herod]

TTH and NR. Expedition training in Sharjah '68. After a couple of days getting further and further into the desert, the warm water was getting a bit monotonous, when this happened.

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr302/peter46/SharjahShackletondroppingsuppliesJebelFaiyah_zps084838d2.jpg (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/peter46/media/SharjahShackletondroppingsuppliesJebelFaiyah_zps084838d2.jpg .html)

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr302/peter46/SharjahJebelFaiyahdigColdbeercourtesyof120Sqn_zps7552beeb.jp g (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/peter46/media/SharjahJebelFaiyahdigColdbeercourtesyof120Sqn_zps7552beeb.jp g.html)

Bliss!!

[teeteringhead]

teeteringhead
If that was from Sharjah circa 1970, then I was flying the Shack! It was indeed! So many - if somewhat belated - thanks! :ok:

Two more details strike me. The 'chute on the container candled/maldeployed, so some of the tins had split! And the DS, who were some distance away in their "normal" campsite, guessed what happened and were legging it to the Lindholme too.

We were closer - so when they got there I think only the split tins were left. :E

I think MARDET had just become - or was about to become - 210 (?), as Grocer Heath had unexpectedly extended our "East of Suez" presence.

[oxenos]

My only experience of Shack propwash was in the Far East it -was never calm enough to get it on the North Atlantic.Tail lookout reckoned that at 100feet (our normal minimum) the wake started to split into two. On Cat Board visits we were allowed to go down to 50 feet under their supervision. Tail lookout reckoned that at that height there were four distinct wakes.

[Pontius Navigator]

Time to worry when there were five.

[SRENNAPS]

As this thread draws to a closed I would just like to say thank you for some fantastic stories and contributions and would ask you to bow your heads and join me in Prayer:

“The Beer Prayer”

Our Larger
Which art in barrels
Hallowed be thy drink
They will be drunk
I will be drunk
At home as it is in the tavern
Give us this day our foamy head
And forgive us our spillages
As we forgive those who spill against us
And lead us not to incarceration
But deliver us from hangovers
For thine is the beer, the bitter and the larger.
Barmen.

[NutLoose]

Lager...

http://s20.postimg.org/q465pge0t/NAS_Jax_Oclub.jpg


:)


Here's something you don't see anymore! - ARC Discussion Forums (http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=266326)

[NutLoose]

The NAAFI Odiham, apparently when the lunchtime bar closed someone found it was possible to push a tube through the grill onto the pumps and operate the pump, took the NAAFI staff weeks before they worked out where all the beer went and installed boards behind the shutters..

:}

[stevef]

1974-ish - some patch brats did a similar thing in the Colerne Pigs Bar early one Sunday morning by pushing open the taps with a pool cue through the lattice shutters. Admittedly it was something dreadful like Starlight or Tartan but any spilt beer is is a tragedy..
Keeping on topic, the Colerne Gliding Club painted the inside of the bar windows black so as to escape the late night/early morning attention of Old Bill, the snowdrop corporal who was the spitting image of Lord Kitchener. A likeable sort of cove, despite his trade. Fell asleep on driving patrol once and ended up inverted somewhere near the new tower. :)

[thing]

The NAAFI Odiham, apparently when the lunchtime bar closed someone found it was possible to push a tube through the grill onto the pumps and operate the pump,

Apparently it was possible to stick a pin into the tip of a snooker cue, push it through the grill, spear a packet of fags on the back shelf and bring them back through the grill. Somebody told me that.

[BEagle]

The NAAFI Odiham, apparently when the lunchtime bar closed someone found it was possible to push a tube through the grill onto the pumps and operate the pump,

Apparently it was possible to stick a pin into the tip of a snooker cue, push it through the grill, spear a packet of fags on the back shelf and bring them back through the grill. Somebody told me that.

Whenever any such similar 'fishing' might have taken place in an Officers' Mess, the 'fishermen' would invariably have passed a bar chit bearing their names / bar no.s through the shutters, so that no accusations of theft would be levied.

If you're going to have such a jolly jape, you must expect to pay for the fruits of your effort! Otherwise you're nothing more than a common thief....:=

[Onceapilot]

Pontifex...Brilliant! I remember we had a Baa-ometric altimeter on the Hawk in '82. Calibrated by the height of a sheep.:ok::ok::D:)

OAP

[wiggy]

Whenever any such similar 'fishing' might have taken place in an Officers' Mess, the 'fishermen' would invariably have passed a bar chit bearing their names / bar no.s through the shutters, so that no accusations of theft would be levied.

Ah, unfortunately that didn't always keep you out of the Doo do. Now before I start the story I must emphasise that it wasn't me, I wasn't there. Also I may have heard it all wrong, there's someone who occasionally visits here who was nearer to the action than me :oh: and who may be able to tell the real story. That said, at a certain airfield in around 1980 Harry Staish took exception to the above practise. He therefore had the guilty b*****stds marched into his office, presented them with their signed chits as evidence of their crime and then threatened them with disciplinary action because as far as he was concerned drinking after hours indicated a lack of OQ's......:eek: :eek:

I believe after that dishonesty became the best policy....:oh::oh::oh:

Oh, the staish went on to do quite well though :\ there's a surprise.

[NutLoose]

It was the NAAFI staff told me one lunchtime when he was shutting up shop and these new boards appeared.. :}

[thing]

If you're going to have such a jolly jape, you must expect to pay for the fruits of your effort! Otherwise you're nothing more than a common thief....:=

You're absolutely right, the persons involved (not me obviously) removed the carcinogenous contents and put the empty packet back on the shelf in a reverse procedure, thus saving some poor soul fron the evils of tobacco. It was a service to humanity but they are accused of being common thieves. Tsk.

[Wander00]

Coltishall Jaguar "survivors' " party, Fg Off(W) G M (my Neatishead OCPSF) had small hands so after the bar closed, and encouraged by the Jag contingent, managed to get beer through bar grille in empty crisp packets. Next morning Colt OCAW (and PMC) sees beer spill on carpet and calls for police investigation. Colt's OC Sy Flt rings Aunty Joan and says he needs to interview GM. Fine says Joan, make sure you arrive with "blues and twos". Shows how seriously she took it. She had a quiet word with Colt Staish and problem went away. G M also got banned from driving Service transport because she collected so much grass in the hub caps bouncing off the verges in the lanes.

[Basil]

If you're going to have such a jolly jape, you must expect to pay for the fruits of your effort! Otherwise you're nothing more than a common thief....
Haven't done it but, in the mess, I really don't think it's a big deal - unless the bar staff are accused - then you'd absolutely have to come clean.
Don't forget, you are not in a public bar; you are in your own mess.

Mob used to get knickers in a twist over nothing. I recollect a little incident when I was invited to visit the Staish (No tea OR biscuits). Pitched up looking extremely smart, if I may say so, and instead of Staish, who was off at a meeting, was dealt with by elderly Wingco. His response: "If I was you age I'd be doing the same thing!" Top man! :ok:

[smujsmith]

Having just checked out my life expectancy on the other thread, it seems I'm past it anyway. Ahh well, bugger it all, I'll just get on with getting on I suppose. It's been a week of reading how everything that's good for you is really bad? Omega 3, vitamins, hell even lettuce. Thank goodness I rely on my beer intake for my full quota of everything wonderful :sad:

Smudge

[SRENNAPS]

The great thing about life expectancy and the drinking culture is the fact that you have had a great life of drinking, smoking and every other indulgence, therefore, theoretically, you should be have been dead many years earlier, but when you keep going, every year is an extra bonus:D:O:ok:

Whereas those that have lived healthily and had a boring life by not participating in the above tend to think they will live forever, but only to find themselves a little bit pi$$ed off when they croak it earlier :{:{……and contrary to popular belief that does tend to happen more often than not!! :E:E

[Wetstart Dryrun]

...it seemed the natural thing to do.

(apologies to the Craven A advert)

regards

wets

[DON T]

Ten pages and nobody seems to have mentioned RAF Gan. Again drinking was a way of life not a culture. I believe the siggies on Hittadu had their salary paid to the Squadron bar and at the end of the week they were told if they had anything left.

The CO of Gan approved bars selling alcohol if they were squadron bars or something to do with a pastime or sport. How they managed to get a mountaineering club bar I will never know.

One early morning on the grass outside our accommodation we only had a bottle of gin left and had just run out of tonic. One good chap ran to the Naafi shop which had a soft drinks machine outside which sold tonic water. Unfortunately he pressed the wrong button and we had to drink gin and cherryade.

Anybody who has spent a night in the Marine Bar will know what a drinking culture is.:E

[sitigeltfel]

Anybody who has spent a night in the Marine Bar will know what a drinking culture is.:E

During the annual inter services shooting match at Bisley, the Marine bar was only for the brave. Once, at chucking out time, even the Marines couldn't get the Gurkhas to leave and got the RMP to send in their dogs, about the only creatures they were afraid of.
Cue, lots of little brown chaps in blazers, ties and flannels, jumping out of the windows.

[DON T]

Unfortunately my Marine Bar is in Gan. I'm going there next year so I will see what has happened.:ok:

[wub]

The NEAF Mountain Rescue Team (det) bar at Troodos had carabiners embeddeded in the stonework so that drinkers could don a harness and clip themselves on, enabling drinking well beyond the falling over stage.

There were, in addition to the NAAFI and two messes, at least three other bars and at Christmas a block bar, for a unit of about 150 personnel.

[Waddo Plumber]

Eng Wing chips on Friday lunchtimes in the Officers Mess bar at Wittering in 1978-80 was a fairly liquid event fuelled by Tolly Cobbold beer.