Email 'reputation'

[BOAC]

I am having infrequent but inconvenient email delivery failures via my current host to Tiscali and AOL addresses. According to 'support', both these ISPs have a 'hair trigger' on spam and it takes very little for them to assess a mail server as a problem.

Is anyone else experiencing problems with these two ISPs? My host is trying to persuade me that I should go for a dedicated email server rather than using the normal 'shared' server on which it appears one or more other customers are generating these issues via spam or viruses.

[mixture]

There's no straightforward answer as different ISPs will have different anti-spam measures.

However, if your 'shared' email server a relatively busy one, then yes, there is the proportionally increased risk of people sending out a larger number of spam and virus messages.

If your ISP then does not deal with those spammers in a timely and efficient manner, then they increase the risk of getting themselves on blacklists.

I wouldn't say go as a far as a dedicated server (just yet), but perhaps try a different shared service such as smtp.com (never used myself, but know some others who have).

[Capetonian]

For what it's worth, I've been told that a very common 'trigger' for spam filters is the word 'hi!', and/or exclamation marks in the title.

Text in ALL CAPITALS so beloved of Nigerian scammers is another.

I find that legitimate emails from one of my clients always go into my spam folder, even though I have added the email address to my address book as suggested. It's a bit of a lottery.

[BOAC]

If your ISP then does not deal with those spammers in a timely and efficient manner - it is not an ISP problem (at my end) as per post #1. It is a domain hosting issue. There appears to be a slow indication of 'progress' there and they are 'looking' at an automatic trigger to advise the controller (reseller) when an account appears to be 'naughty', in particular when it floods. Just taking a while! The query was whether anyone else found Tiscali and AOL 'over-sensitive'?

[vulcanised]

Not saying it's the same server but Tiscali & AOL have common ownership.

[mixture]

- it is not an ISP problem (at my end) as per post #1.

Alright, let me rephrase my originals statement....

If the server operator then does not deal with those spammers in a timely and efficient manner

ISP or whatever, if the server operator either ignores abuse@ or is on the slow side to respond, then they'll find themselves on blacklists pretty quickly.

[BOAC]

Thanks, vulcanised - that explains it! Mixture - you are into PRISM-land if you think email hosts should monitor outgoing for spam etc, are you not?

The host has been 'kicked' for allowing flooding for too long before doing something for some time now, but I understand from their tech support that AOL can 'black' an incoming server for 1 spam email.

[mixture]

Mixture - you are into PRISM-land if you think email hosts should monitor outgoing for spam etc, are you not?

Oh dear.... I had rather hoped to have got you onto the right page BOAC, but you seem to have switched books instead ! :ugh:

Let me spell it out :

- Email host provides facility to send email = Fine. No problem.
- Unscrupulous individual uses facility to send spam etc. = Bad
- Internet community attempts to make contact with email host via abuse@ or otherwise = Expected
- Email host denies it has anything to do with them / ignores reports / takes long time to respond = Bad

Result = Email host punished.

I know lots of people who use shared SMTP servers without issue. The only people who have issue are those with shared SMTP providers who either have mis-configured servers or who fail to take prompt or effective action on abusers.

[BOAC]

I'm afraid my bookmark dropped out. The problem with your story is
"- Internet community attempts to make contact with email host via abuse@ or otherwise = Expected" doesn't happen with those two ISPs so the last few pages of your book are missing. All that happens is that the hapless reader's emails are bounced.I know lots of people who use shared SMTP servers without issue. - yup, count me in on that too, EXCEPT for AOL and Tiscali. It is very difficult to take "prompt or effective action on abusers" when the delicate flowers at those two ISPs react to just one spam, and our dear reader then comes along and tries to send a clean email to them. Does the second volume of your book have a solution?

By the way, was it the butler........?

[Milo Minderbinder]

Sorry, but this thread carries a high BS quotient

First, AOL/TalkTalk still have open relays and are still a spam source: you are more likely to find mail from their domains being blocked, than them doing the blocking.
Next, AOL don't have their own unique spam-host-ID system: they just "buy in" info from SpamHaus or the other information congregators.

What that means is, plug your own IP address and your own e-mail address into the spam-bot listings and see if you get a hit. If you do, theres usually a hint given as to why the hit was there.

Its important to note that in the grown-up e-mail world, spam IS blocked at the sending ISP - thats why so many open relays have closed. AOL are one of the exceptions in the west

But.......e-mail rejection can be a funny thing
A few weeks ago one of my customers was pulling his hair out because an advertising shot he was trying to mail was constantly being rejected by his SMTP mailhost (Orange - he has his own POP domain)
Eventually I tracked the problem down to the use of the word "teen" in the mail title. The actual title was on the lines of "Would-be teenage organist entertains" and was advertising a cinema organ recital.
A real-life example of what BOAC described as PRISMism gone wrong

In this particular case I suspect theres something more going on. Its more likely that your e-mail host -not you - is on a blacklist somewhere for having an open relay. And I'd take anything their helpdesk says with a pinch of salt.
Essentially its down to your e-mail host to cure the problem by stopping the spam. If they don't, then they are not doing their job. Take your business (and your e-mail domain) elsewhere. You've already said theres spam going through the server through other accounts. Its up to the mail company to close those accounts.

[BOAC]

Pretty much a summary of what is happening, Milo, and all covered in post #4 for those who take the trouble to read 'the book'. I have no problems with 'bad' emails from the two ISPs - I think my personal spam filters are adequate there. There are, as you say, issues in the way the hosting outfit is responding to both hack-induced flooding (mostly insecure Wordpress installs) and the odd virus induced spamming and they are (they claim) 'taking steps' to sort it out, BUT as I have said, the major problem is rejection by these two ISPs. I will attempt to find out what barriers my server has in additional to attachment size, exe, com etc. (if, indeed, any, as you are suggesting?). I take it from your comments that some email hosts are actually scanning the entire content of all outbound emails eg Orange? A little concerning in view of recent 'news'.

For those who appear to have either taken the wrong book off the shelf, or lost their place, I repeat part of post #1I am having infrequent but inconvenient email delivery failures via my current host to Tiscali and AOL addresses. According to 'support', both these ISPs have a 'hair trigger' on spam and it takes very little for them to assess a mail server as a problem.

Is anyone else experiencing problems with these two ISPs? I have to assume that no-one else is seeing server blocking by these two ISPs. 9/10 times my email server does not appear on any blacklist when the reject from Ti or AOL occurs but it then takes them '24 hours' to clear their block.

[Milo Minderbinder]

"I take it from your comments that some email hosts are actually scanning the entire content of all outbound emails eg Orange?"

It would be better to say "Most" not "some"


But the key point is this
"According to 'support', both these ISPs have a 'hair trigger' on spam and it takes very little for them to assess a mail server as a problem."
That is not true. AOL is no more likely to block than anyone else. This is your e-mail host casting blame incorrectly.
If AOL are blocking, others will be also. You need to find just which blocklist your server is on



Something else to remember in all this is that AOL can be a bit funny about incoming e-mail from competing companies.....
for instance I've noticed many times that if I send a test e-mail to one of my AOL accounts from a Yahoo account it goes into a black hole. No bounceback message, it just vanishes. Yet the same message appears in my Gmail or Hotmail or other accounts without delay.

[BOAC]

If AOL are blocking, others will be also. You need to find just which blocklist your server is on - also appears to be "not true.", I'm afraid. Only AOL and Ti are consistently (occasionally) blocking - no others -and I have yet to see the server on any blacklist when it happens. As to the host "casting blame incorrectly." - not impossible, I know..............hence the ongoing 'discussion' with them.

Anyone any experience of 'Untangle' Spam Blocker Lite?

[mixture]

Anyone any experience of 'Untangle' Spam Blocker Lite?

Just had a look at it. You don't need half the rubbish its got.

If you've already got a nix*/nux* gateway box, then just run your favourite MTA (postfix/sendmail/qmail etc.) .... configure it for DNSBL and RBL lookups against decent blacklists and that's all you need .... it will catch 99% of spam.

All stuff like Bayesian Filters, Razor and OCR does is increase the chances of false positives.

[BOAC]

If you've already got a nix*/nux* gateway box, then just run your favourite MTA (postfix/sendmail/qmail etc.) .... configure it for DNSBL and RBL lookups against decent blacklists and that's all you need .... it will catch 99% of spam. - do I take it this is what you think my hosting company ('you') should be using?

[mixture]

- do I take it this is what you think my hosting company ('you') should be using?

I'm sorry, have I missed something ?

"'Untangle' Spam Blocker Lite? " is something that gets run on a gateway.

Why were you asking about it if you don't operate a gateway yourself ? :rolleyes:

[BOAC]

I'm sorry, have I missed something ?- I fear so. Perhaps start at post #1 again or on second thoughts probably better to forget it?

[mixture]

or on second thoughts probably better to forget it?

Yeah, sod it ... I'll hire a translator next time I have to read one of your posts. :cool: