Aspiring Airline Pilot - Should I start a PPL at 15 Years Old?

[Tom Cahill]

Hello,
Unfortunately I'm relatively new to the pprune forums so I don't know if this has been mentioned before - but I suppose it shouldn't hurt to ask again. :)

I'm aiming to become a commercial airline pilot (for airlines like BA, FlyBe or maybe EasyJet). I aim to get all of my certification (ATPL, CPL, etc) via their scholarship schemes e.g: BAFuturePilot - but as I'm sure you know, places are ridiculously competitive.

Would it be a good or bad idea to go for a PPL (which I would probably complete if I get onto a scholarship anyway), so that I stand a better chance of being accepted for a scholarship?

Being 15, I can't do my solo flights until 16/17, but was thinking of getting the PPL exams and assisted flights done before then - over a 1-2 year period. It will also enable me to fit it around my exams. Is this a good or bad idea at such an early age, and why?

I've been in the Air Cadets for nearly 2 years, and am aware of gliding scholarships which I intend to complete in addition to a possible PPL.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[thing]

Go for it Tom, don't let it interfere with your schoolwork though. As you say, places are very hard to get so always have a plan B. You can fly solo at 16 and take your skills test at 17 so if you have the financial werewithall then starting at 15 seems like a good idea to me. Do go gliding if you get the chance, it's cheaper for one thing and it will broaden your flying.

Be aware that everything is changing exam wise very shortly, I think the number of exams you have to do is going up, no doubt someone in the know will be along to advise.

I might also add without I hope sounding patronising that from a 15 year old that was a well written and lucid post, you seem to have your goals set! Good luck.

[Pace]

Tom

I am an ATP flying corporate jets and love it! Beats a 9-5 office job!
My son used to fly right seat SEP when he was small and I did everything to dissuade him from a career in aviation.
17 He had a PPL, refused going to university even with strong advice from his school.
He went to Oxford and straight through a selection process with CTC.
Lucky Easy Jet took on 6 more pilots in the recession and he was right seat in a 737 before his 21 st Birthday now on the A320. Now a Senior first officer and in the captain process.

Go for it! PPL now!!! but hope you have a Dad and Mum to help with the initial costs to help you on your way as even modular courses like my son did are expensive. Integrated stupidly expensive! He was lucky with those six places after being in a holding pool as many others sat in the holding pool for some time after those final six places. CTC was the way to go then !!! nowadays???

Pace

[thing]

My son used to fly right seat SEP when he was small

My grandson is 7 and can now fly straight and level apart from operating the rudder because he can't reach it yet, knows the effects of controls, can relate E,N,S and West to a half mil and knows more or less what ATC are rabbiting on about....start 'em young I say.

[ETOPS]

Tom

Bit of advice direct from a BA recruitment manager - by all means get your PPL, it shows commitment and ability, but be wary of building up too many flying hours before starting a course at one of the larger colleges.

The figures mentioned were "200 hours just about OK but 400 hours would be a problem"

Makes sense as the "skills" learnt solo hour building aren't necessarily the ones they want to teach for your ATPL......

[stevelup]

Which is pretty ironic really when you think about things like AF447...

[Monocock]

Tom

If you decide not to fly for a living, with spelling and grammar like yours at the age of 15 you could always be a writer or a very good teacher! :ok:

[ETOPS]

stevelup

I think you're deliberately missing the point made by BA's recruitment manager and it has nothing to do with the AF accident.

The courses offered by CTC (and the like) are geared towards producing airline pilots for the future and in a relatively short time. A student arriving with, say, 400 hours in a Cessna 150 will potentially need to un-learn his single pilot operation in order to fit with the multi-crew training they offer. Many of his fellow students will not have flown before and thus will start from scratch as a team member.

The advice to Tom stands - get a PPL, enjoy it but don't build hours for the sake of it...

[Pace]

Etops

Just to correct a typo error unless things have changed at CTC they do not take on zero time pilots and train them from scratch.
They select suitable pilots and type rate them but they hold Frozen ATPs when they apply to CTC or that was the case 5-6 years back.

Pace

[CharlieDeltaUK]

Tom, a commercial licence requires a class 1 medical. A PPL needs class 2. Some folk are unlucky and cannot get a class 1 irrespective of their efforts. No need to do it right away, but think about getting a class 1 even for the PPL so that you know you don't have some impediment. Eyesight is an obvious one.

One other thought...when you do your PPL, you may find an instructor who flies commercially. Our club has several - they do flight training because they love it - and they fly airliners for a day job. It's nowhere near Cornwall but I'm guessing it's not unusual. I'm not saying the training is any different, but you will doubtless pick up tit bits about real life commercial flying.

[Oldbiggincfi]

Tom
Don't forget you can now solo in a glider at 14.
Take a summer holiday break at one of the residential Gliding Sites.
Student rates are usually very reasonable. Easy to move on to the NPPL.

[Tom Cahill]

Thanks for all your replies, I wouldn't have been able to find the support anywhere else!

I hope to be going off to Newquay airport to investigate more accurate prices for a PPL before I decide to commit - as many of you have said, its a significant financial decision. However, in the light of some of the more recent posts - I may not start until I'm a little older.

Your support has been invaluable, and I hope any other 15 year olds can come to this and make an informed decision on where they want aviation to lead them. Hopefully it's the right one!

Thanks again for your highly professional support! :)

[Contacttower]

Just to clarify about CTC...

They have two separate processes. Wings, which is for people with little or no flying experience and results in a fATPL or an MPL if done on one of the tagged schemes and CTC ATP which is for people already holding a fATPL and wanting to enter their hold pool for partner airlines.

So they deal with both experienced and ab initio...

[Jonty]

Personally, at this stage (15/16) I wouldn't bother with a PPL. If your intention is for a sponsorship then you're going to need A levels at least, if not a degree. So, you're looking at 18 to 21 before you even apply to get a sponsorship. Thats between 4 and 7 years in which you will need to keep your PPL current, but not accumulate too many hours that the course wont accept you.

Also, the course will take you from 0 hours. So you don't need the PPL.

I would ask what are you trying to achieve in gaining the PPL? Its going to cost the thick end of 7K and another £150 an hour to keep current (at least once a month). So thats £14K that could be used towards an ATPL course if you don't get the sponsorship.

The best bet, IMHO, if you want to get airborne at 15 is to go gliding. Its cheap, fun, and will stand you in very good stead when you finally start a course toward a licence. You could even buy a glider for less than a PPL is going to cost over the years.

At 15 you have time on your side. Don't be in too much of a rush to get in the right seat of an airliner, its only a way of paying the bills. Aviation is a VERY broad church, with an awful lot to offer. Airline flying is just one part of that church, and not a very interesting one at that.

[A and C]

Tom, having been in one or another part of professional aviation for the best part of forty years I am not sure what advice I would give to the keen newcomer.

Doing the gliding with the air cadets is the best start that you can get as they teach to a high standard that is monitored by the RAF.

Learning to fly in a club environment is altogether more of a problem as the standard of instruction is variable to say the least and IF you get the wrong instructor you will learn bad habits. As an air cadet you do have access to the RAF flying clubs, these are usually staffed by retired RAF & airline pilots who teach more or less for the love of flying and will ensure that you learn the correct way to fly.

Getting into an airline is a bit more of a problem as you are seen by the bean counters as a revenue stream and people like CTC want to maximize the Proffit that they can make out of training you and so don't want to have someone turn up with the ability to start half way through the course because their system is not set up to cope with it.

The other thing to think about is job security I have lost my job four times due to airlines going bust and am owed IRO £100K in back pay that i will never see by airlines various who have gone to the wall. Add to this the appalling way that some airlines treat their staff and you have from your point of view a very poor investment in terms of time and money just to become a slave of Mr O'Leary.

I can't help thinking that for the airline staff the golden days are over and so despite having enjoyed my time in aviation I would advise you to go into another profession that is well enough paid to enable you to fly as a leisure activity and not to get drawn into a pay to fly deal that locks you into a form of serfdom just to enrich the airlines and training providers.

[kernowlife]

Tom

You might be better off popping out to Bodmin airfield for your PPL. They are a decent bunch out there (I did a trial lesson there a couple of years back)

Also check out Perranporth for Gliding.