AFE OR POOLEYS?

[predzsingh15]

Hi Guys !
Im starting my training for my ppl next week and i need to get the materials and equipment. I want to buy a student starter set, i have seen both on afe and pooleys and they are the same price, £220.00.

AFE: AFE Full PPL Study Pack : AFE - Airplan Flight Equipment (http://www.afeonline.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=439_174&products_id=175)

Pooleys: Student Starter Kits | Student Starter Kit | PSK001 | Fixed-Wing Pilot's Starter Kit (http://www.pooleys.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=81)

I am very confused in which one to buy, which would you recommend?
I would like to place an order today, but as its my first time and i have never bought any afe or pooleys stuff please could you advise me. Also which one has got the better books to study? Which do you prefer? And why?

[mad_jock]

Neither to be honest.

Are you going to take it further onto commercial flying?

Once we know that we can give you some tips what you need to do your PPL which will do for later as well.

[predzsingh15]

Yes i would like to go further onto doing commercial flying

[BackPacker]

I agree: Neither.

The student starter kits contain a lot of stuff you don't need at all, or don't need immediately. It's better to buy kit as and when you need it.

Talk it over with your instructor. Initially you'll need nothing more than:

- A kneeboard, clipboard or something along those lines. A5 size is OK in most aircraft. You can get these at Tescos as well. Stuff some blank sheets of paper in them for your notes, and download a plog template from the internet to print a few times. (I've got one if you want mine.)
- A pen or pencil, and if you buy a laminated chart, a pen that will hold on that laminated chart.
- Something to erase your marks from the chart.
- A current map of the local area. The default is the laminated, CAA issued one, but the Jeppesen paper one will do just fine too. Although the Jeppesen VFR+GPS ones have a slightly different presentation of the same data, and your instructor might not like that. Furthermore, the CAA nav exams are based on the CAA way of presenting the data.
- A ruler marked in 1:500000 and 1:250000 nautical miles, and a protractor or something else to measure angles.
- The airfield map of your local airfield, and maybe those of the few airfields that you'll be visiting in the near future. You can print these from the UK AIP, and the AIP is accessible for free via multiple sources (UK CAA, Eurocontrol, Skydemon, ...)
- A headset. This is probably the most costly investment, but well worth the money in the long run. Yes, you can borrow these from the school but IME these are clapped out, dirty and non-functioning at times.
- A good pair of sunglasses. Non-polarized preferably.
- Depending on the airfield: A high-viz vest of some sort.
- Something to keep track of time. A wristwatch is good enough for PPL flying - there's no need for a stopwatch or anything fancy right now.
- If you have glasses or lenses, your medical will require that you carry a spare set at all times, once you go solo.
- The checklist for the aircraft you're going to fly. Most clubs/schools will create their own, based on the aircraft POH and local peculiarities, and will provide you with one. (Read: Will sell you one.) Alternatively you can use the one in the POH itself - which should be on board anyway. But there's no need to buy them from AFE or Pooleys.
- A logbook.
- A bag to hold all that stuff. Any bag will do, although if you do get a headset of your own, it's best if the bag has a separate compartment for that headset. (Or keep the headset in a separate headset bag - in most cases this bag is included with the headset.)

Once you start studying the theory, you'll need the full set of theory books. AFE or Trevor Thom are the most common choices, but I believe Oxford now does a PPL set as well. Also get some sort of PPL Confuser, Questions and Answers Simplifier or something to practice the exams. And you'll need an analog "flight computer". Again, talk to your instructor about which one is best. And see if you can get a 2nd hand one - lots of people find they don't need them anymore once they've got the licence, so they might sell them off cheap.

Remember that a lot of organizations, including AFE, Pooleys and your school/club, view flight students as nothing more than walking wallets. It's their goal to extract as much money from you as they can, and it's your job to resist that.

[mad_jock]

From a uk ex-instructor point of view knowing your going commercial

CRP-5 which is the commercial nav computer which is used in the exams. But you won't need it until you start the NAV phase of training.

Books: EBAY has most of them but see which ones your school uses both are as good as each other.

Clip Board initially you don't need one but as you go on for PPL a A5 one will do and some means of attaching it to your knee. Or you can purchase at great cost one from a pilot shop. A4 later for instrument flying .

chart wise they will sell them in the school hopefully unfolded. Then you instructor can show you how to fold it properly without fighting against the creases that the shop has put in it. Don't go near Jeps charts until after you have got your PPL. It will just confuse you.

Rule's pens and all the rest you can get from tescos as you need them.

And a watch any one will do that is clear digital or analogue as you prefer.

The log book is the biggest first thing you need to get quickly

Basically get one which says commercial and either JAR or EASA compliant. Don't get a FAA compliant one.

[BackPacker]

Books: EBAY has most of them but see which ones your school uses both are as good as each other.

eBay is fine, just make sure the Air Law book is as up to date as possible. With EASA taking over from the CAA, there are loads of changes at the moment. Also, I don't know how up to date the CAA exams are in this respect. But a three-year old Air Law book is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

As far as the rest of the books series is concerned: No problem to use books that are slightly out of date.

Don't go near Jeps charts until after you have got your PPL.

Despite being a big fan of the Jeppesen charts, I agree with this. The advantage of the Jeps charts is that they have a uniform presentation across the whole of Europe, and quite a few places beyond. But the nav books, nav exam and other materials are all based on the CAAs interpretation of the ICAO way of presenting things, so it's best to use those charts initially. You can always switch to Jeppesen once you got your PPL and are going abroad.

[chevvron]

I would be very wary of AFE. In their latest flight guide they are saying Fairoaks circuit height limited to 800ft when runway 23 is in use at Heathrow.
If they can get that wrong - 23 was withdrawn from use as a runway about 10 years ago - what else can they get wrong?

[mr_rodge]

eBay is fine, just make sure the Air Law book is as up to date as possible. With EASA taking over from the CAA, there are loads of changes at the moment. Also, I don't know how up to date the CAA exams are in this respect. But a three-year old Air Law book is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

I also know that some Trevor Thom 7 (R/T) books which are still being sold are based on the old ATSOCAS and not the current ones. I got mine when the system had only just changed (a good 4 years ago I think), so it was understandable then but be careful now. As a student it's pretty confusing if you're learning the wrong services!

I'm assuming (so am probably wrong) that a new edition has been published (FlightStore says 2011), but it doesn't seem to be circulating yet from certain places. If I were doing it again I wouldn't bother with the R/T book anyway, I'd just download CAP 413 and the GA supplement.

[CharlieDeltaUK]

Get your school to introduce you to other students. You can pick their brains on what you need and start enjoying the social benefits and support that make the whole project more human.

[stevelup]

I also know that some Trevor Thom 7 (R/T) books which are still being sold are based on the old ATSOCAS and not the current ones. I got mine when the system had only just changed (a good 4 years ago I think), so it was understandable then but be careful now. As a student it's pretty confusing if you're learning the wrong services!

I'm assuming (so am probably wrong) that a new edition has been published (FlightStore says 2011), but it doesn't seem to be circulating yet from certain places. If I were doing it again I wouldn't bother with the R/T book anyway, I'd just download CAP 413 and the GA supplement.

My 2009 Trevor Thom covers the new ATSOCAS stuff, so a 2011 edition certainly would. To be fair, there's a lot of stuff in the book that isn't in the CAP 413 supplement - it's far from useless.

[A and C]

Forget all that stuff they are trying to sell the unsuspecting student pilot, get a grip on what you need first and then buy.

Also remember that ebay and the search engine is your friend.......

............ Now lets start with a bit of navigation tuition !

LiveLeak.com - RAF. Nought Feet 1943 - 44 (comments)

[Howard Long]

I realise this is going against the grain, but I purchased the Pooley's kit at the recommendation of the school. They weren't pushy about it, the first day I went in there I asked for suggestions and this is what they suggested. (Slight aside, Pooley's Air Pilot's Manual series is the same as the oft-quoted Trevor Thom).

I've used every single part of the kit during my PPL training over the past four months, I am about 85% done. I am not sure where you'd find an appropriate ruler in Tescos: the ruler markings are designed to work with 1:500,000 and 1:250,000 maps.

The main problem with the Pooley's kit is the bag itself. It's simply not the best dimensions for the folded map. In addition the zip fasteners are less than robust, mine broke a few days after I received it.

What is missing from the kit? A suitable Q&A book and something to clean the map etc from the permananent markers. For the Q&A book, I use both the Pooley's Q&A book and the AFE Simplifier. The AFE has a cram section for each exam which I found very useful, but the Pooley's Q&A has very good colour explanations. To clean the map there are a few suggestions, but probably a dry whiteboard marker pen and a cloth is the most convenient. Others suggest nail varnish remover. Being an electronics engineer, I have isopropyl alcohol (IPA) in the lab, so I use that, it's cheaper than nail varnish.

You may need a better flight computer than the one in the kit for your CPL as others have mentioned, I am not intending to do a CPL so I can't really comment further.

I am also not convinced about the kneeboard supplied yet, I can see me changing that when I spot something more appropriate. This is the one very slight disadvantage of being a left-hander! I naturally put the kneeboard on my left leg being left handed, but sitting in the left seat the knee board won't open as there's a door in the way! So I have it on my right leg but it's not the most comfortable for writing.

Cheers, Howard

[riverrock83]

For cleaning the maps, I recommend alcoholic hand sanitiser and kitchen roll...
Only bad thing is that now all my maps smell a bit like cucumber...
Its also useful when you get your hands covered in fuel after the tester slips...

[Howard Long]

...and they have to be "alcoholic". The non-alcoholic wipes do not work. At all. Been there, etc.

[Fly-by-Wife]

For cleaning the mapsI keep a small bottle of acetone in my flight bag for this purpose. Plus kitchen roll / paper towels, of course.

FBW

[mad_jock]

acetone

Not a good idea to have that on an aircraft. Better with a half bottle of cheap vodka. It can do funny things at altitude if the bottle bursts. Not to mention its not allowed under Dangerous goods in crew baggage.

The other way is to use a none perm pen and scribble over the top and it will come off.

[mr_rodge]

I have a pack of CD-R pens. Permanent, doesn't rub off with rustling the papers around, comes in four colours and has an eraser pen that brings it straight off with a bit of kitchen roll. Scribble out the line and wipe.

[Crash one]

Surgical spirit & cotton wool pads.
They take a spark pretty good as well when you come down somewhere & need a cuppa.:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Packs of 4 CD marker pens with an eraser pen are a few quid, including postage, from numerous sources on eBay and the like. Much less hassle than a bottle of acetone.

G

[thing]

Howard I use a simple pencil eraser to rub out map lines, works a treat.

[A and C]

All aircraft have a supply of map cleaning fluid , all you have to do is slightly undo the screw at the back of that thingy in the centre of the windscreen with the numbers and letters that wander around on the face and it will despence a small amount of map cleaning fluid. The fluid dispenser is much better positioned on the Cessna (rather than the piper ) as it has a convenient shelf to let you position the map exactly underneath the fluid dispenser.

[Grob Queen]

Ref Cleaning maps, i find that Jif is perfect!

Ref which books to use. I started off with Pratt but have found him too complicated and have gone over to Pooleys, much simpler to understand and closer to the exam questions!

Talking of exam questions, buy yourself a copy of the PPL Perfector..I couldn't be without it now! ;)

Ref starter kits, yeah, I made the mistake of getting the AFE one. Most of it I now don't use (including the bag!) In fact the only thing I do use now is the nav ruler :hmm:

[Flying_Anorak]

Cheap (value brand) hairspray works great for cleaning maps - glider pilots have been using it for years!

[abgd]

I bought most of my materials on Ebay and I'm sure I did save money overall. However, in retrospect I'm not sure it was worth the hassle. The reasonably up-to-date books tend to go at perhaps half-price after you've included postage, so if you can get a package that saves significantly on the RRP then you may get some shiny new books and equipment without paying all that much more.

If I was to do it all over again, I would have bought a nice headset early on, with active noise reduction.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

I have to smile. The cost of either of these starter kits is small potatoes when you are considering taking up flying as a hobby or career. Buying stuff on Ebay is fine if you don't mind other peoples' dog eared stuff, which may have been goodness knows where!

The bulk of the costs of both kits is in the books. Which of those two series is chosen is down to personal preference. They both say the same thing in slightly different style. Occasionally, you will find a small point which may be out of date. Your instructor will almost certainly put you right, and there is the internet, etc. You will buy other books - definitely!

Hardly anything in those kits will not be used in your training. You need the map. You need the logbook. Yes, the knee-board may be sub optimal, but it will do as a starter. Your needs will change as you progress in the hobby or career, and so you will replace it. You will love a new and better flight bag, so you'll eventually choose and get one, and then another one.... You'll rarely use your square protractor (a plotter is better!), the flight computer, and some other items later, because you already own a far more expensive iPad, a computer and so on - on which you'll have perfect wind corrected flight plans with the lines on the map that you will plan. Your flight log will be printed by you - but not yet! You do the PPL the traditional way... Some of it may seem (and is) somewhat anachronistic, but the principles learned will serve you well.

You will need most of the items in either of those kits - these have been standardised for years, and are similar in the USA. Both Pooleys and AFE have been in the business long enough to know what the basic requirements are. As I've already said, you will buy other bits when you see that you need or prefer them.

Get the best headset (ANR is really recommended!) that you can afford. A good one will last you for years. Do try and visit a pilot shop to try these out. One size does not fit all :)

[forestman238]

I found the best way to get permanent marker pen off a chart is to go over the lines etc with a "White Board" marker pen and then wipe both off with a wipe or tissue. No need for any fluids. The white board marker is non- permanent and takes the permanent marker line with it. I carry one in my flight bag. Stragely enough the trick also works on a white board when someone has used a permanent marker pen!

[Flying Tooth Driller]

For simple VFR hamburger runs, use a wax pencil/marker pen. They can be reasonably well sharpened, and you don't have to be accurate to one degree on the map for this sort of flying (if you could even fly that accurately!). A quick wipe with a damp cloth, and the map is clean.