F3 or GR4 - Which do you think?

[tcp2001]

HI, i wonder if you all can help?

I've recenty been accepted by OASC to join as a Nav or now WSO. (probably start IOT 199) Like most people I've spoken to I would like to go Fast Jet - which means either F3 or GR4. But i'm not all that sure about the pros and cons of each.

I think F3s because they can fly faster and pull more G, but then you hear more about the GR4s going in and dropping bombs. What does anyone think? Cheers.

[RotaDish]

GR4 or F3 you ask.......Hmmmmm, tough one. The GR4 is a very handy bit of kit, and the F3 has had lots of recent upgrades. Either way, you'll be challenged!

However, if you really want to get into the "Thick of it", GR4 will offer more for you, since our colonial collegues don't let F3s anywhere near the Fighter action. Just the way it is...

Probably better to worry about passing Nav School (or whatever it's call these days), before choosing your type!

Good Luck Though!

Rota

PS: I love Navs, I just can't finish a whole one.

[Flap62]

tcp,

If your reason for choosing F3 is that it "goes faster and pulls more G" then I wouldn't bother with OASC till you've gone through the Top Trumps stage.

[Flt Lt Spry]

I would go for the GR4 because it looks cooler and I prefer dark grey. And it has a fricking "LASER."

[ORAC]

If your reason for choosing F3 is that it "goes faster and pulls more G" I'm surprised they didn't put you down for pilot!! :D

[skyflash]

GR4 mate , F3 has the turning circle of my grandma in a HGV. Besides the F3s are being phased out soon.

[STANDTO]

Jeesh

get through Cranwell first

Then be grateful whatever they give you. Who knows, you might end up on Fat Alberts yet (and would be no worse a person for it)

[Grimweasel]

I would say GR4 wins hands down. After all if you go F (not for fighter but F***ed) 3 then you are bound to clock up far more ground hours than flying ones. They are always U/s!
Failing that go for the RAF's best kept secret and do a stint on the Tactical Sqns that fly the Albert one! Low and slow but much more sociable and fun!;) ;)

[tcp2001]

Cheers, all

I've had lots of feedback about the benefits of GR4 - but is anyone going to stand up for the F3?:confused:

[Jackonicko]

OK, here goes.

There was a time, not that long ago, when it looked as though the remaining F3s might become really useful assets, with a recce pod (just the EO Vicon, rather than the super-expensive but maybe not-so-super Raptor), TIALD and even an ELS to give a real 'Wild Weasel' capability. Then there were the plans to give it helmet mounted sights and even digi-ASRAAM.

With all that the F3 still wouldn't have been a dogfighter, but by gum, what a useful piece of kit.

Unfortunately, though none of it was funded......:mad:

[RotaDish]

OK,

I appear to have opened a "can of worms" here!! So I'll defend the poor old F3. Jackonicko is right, it's not a dogfighter, at least not in comparison to F15,16,18 etc. However, it is better or comparable to other interceptors of it's type and design, ie F4, Mig23, Tomcat etc.

This really isn't the issue though, because with Slammers, ASRAAM, latest radar, JTIDS and a host of other goodies it could and would put up a credible fight......if someone would let it! But it earned such a bad reputation (Deserved by the way!) in it's early days, nothing will convince people that it is now OK. Sadly, there is every potential for a similar situation to occur with Eurofighter if it is brought into service before it is ready.

Bring back the Lightning and F4, totally useless by the mid 80s, but at least everyone "Thought" they were great!

Rota

F4 pilots won debriefs by SHOUTING, Lightning pilots usually didn't bother! (What's the point for a 8 min sortie?)

[bad livin']

Have to agree with STANDTO - at the end of the day either will keep you busier than a three peckered goat and happy at that (old salts that moan notwithstanding). Get through IOT, Tutor, Tuc, and BDM, then LLTS, then 100 Sqn, THEN start worrying about where you want to go. I have a very good friend that was unlucky twice on his LLTS FNT after a very, very good run through the training system and is now happy as larry on Alberts - there's really no such thing as a bad job for a pilot or navigator in the RAF compared to everyday careers. Think yourself lucky, and ENJOY!

Rgds
BL

[Mr C Hinecap]

Strange ambitions them - does the mighty new Typhoon not feature in your dreams?

Lets face it - F3 - can't be that difficult - nothing to hit when you're punching holes at 25000 ft is there. And there's 2 of you in the damn thing. V efficient fuel to noise converters tho.

[tcp2001]

Mr C,

umm, Typhoon , why didn't I think of that - Oh yes thats because last time I looked you couldn't fit a Nav in it. Maybe Navs could be accomodated by getting rid of the pilot, but thats a completely different arguement.

So as far as air combat the F3 is the only choice.

[STANDTO]

I'd look at moderating the sarcasm in your replies young man. Who knows, the person on the end of your viper-like wit might be your next flight commander, and at their stroke of a pen the nearest you'll get to being a navigator is holding the map on a teambuilding orienteering weekend with the bank you end up working at.

anonymity is harder than you think...................

[tcp2001]

Apologies Mr C / Standto no offence was intended.

[bad livin']

tcp - STANDTO speaks the truth with several tongues. my "differences" with my flt cdr at IOT made my time post chop at JEFTS a lot less pleasant than it might have been, despite excellent holding and JEFTS officer commentaries. watch your step - VERY carefully. it can be a challenging 6 months, or a hard 6 months. the difference is largely up to you.

best of luck.

BL

[Flap62]

Stadto - what is your problem?

tcp need not apologise to anyone. Mr c posted without reading or understanding the whole thread. tcp stated right at the start that he had been accepted for "nav or WSO". For Mr C to ask if he'd thought about Typhoon was therefore just a touch dull. If you're suggesting that just because tcp is starting out on his career, he should not have the temerity to gently banter on pprune, then you really do need to get a life!

[STANDTO]

There is a difference between gentle banter, perhaps between yourself and someone you know, and sticking the knife in to someone who may well have made an honest mistake but was trying to offer some polite, well intentioned and constructive advice.

The advice I offered seems to have been accepted and I might say, endorsed by others. You pass this way but once, and to mess up an opportunity which few have, just because you perhaps opened mouth before putting brain into gear is something I wouldn't want anyone to do. There are too many individuals who will stick the knife in these days.

If my advice could perhaps be put another way, it would be to think twice, speak once. Perhaps something we all forget to do from time to time.

May his career be long, and above ground level

[Flap62]

umm, Typhoon , why didn't I think of that - Oh yes thats because last time I looked you couldn't fit a Nav in it.

Hardly "sticking the knife in". I'm sure Mr C is a big boy and will not require to much post banter councelling. Having seen the air force change markedly over the last 15 years, I am sure that it is attitudes such as yours (however well intentioned) that are have contributed to the current wishy-washy PC mentallity. People nowadays are so scared of showing any spiwit and bwavado that the training system is churning out characterless drones.

By the way, your use of the phrase "young man" says more about you than any amount of "friendly guidance" ever could !

[The Diggler]

Now children - lets all play nicely.

Re. the F3. Suggestion has been made on other pprune threads, as well as a few muted industry references from the likes of Warton and Boscombe Down as to the benefits of using the F3 platform - now much imporved over the orginal F2s and early F3 kit - as a fast recce jet. The PR9s have been all over the place for the past 10 years and the F3 could fill that void.?.

This would certainly present a challenging 9-5.

[STANDTO]

Mr Flaps

I, metaphorically, smile sympathetically and walk away................


mind the blood pressure, won't you

[pshakey]

Dear All,

I have just applied for my provisional driving licence, but can't decide if I should buy a Ferrari 550 Maranello, or a Porsche 911 GT2. What do you think?

I thought about the Williams BMW Formula 1 car, but am not sure if it will challenge me enough ?

p.s. I am hoping to go for my glider wings next year, because I want to be an astronaut.

p.p.s. GR4s any day mate!:)

[Mr C Hinecap]

Banter too strong.........feeling weak........must lie down.........

Sorry guys - didn't get the Nav/WeSo bit - doesn't stop Nav abuse tho!! Self-loading ballast etc.

You'll soon learn where the banter/abuse line is young man - usually has to be learned with as senior an officer as possible in the conversation - boy it is a fast lesson & best carried out as early as possible.

There - blunty advice.