Question about ATIS frequencies in the UK

[piperboy84]

Was flying into Inverness the other day and went to dial in the ATIS but its on a VOR frequency that my VFR equipped aircraft can not get, Are there a lot of other larger UK airports similarly setup like this?

[wb9999]

Guernsey and Jersey. Jersey also have a separate com frequency.

[ShyTorque]

LHR, Southampton.

[piperboy84]

ShyTorque LHR, Southampton.
4th Jun 2013 22:19
wb9999 Guernsey and Jersey. Jersey also have a separate com frequency.


So i guess if your aircraft is equipped as mine is , you have to call up and get the recording on the mobile, what is the purpose of having the ATIS on the VOR frequency?

[OhNoCB]

Saves frequencies, can be used to ident the VOR and also - for IFR flights, chances are you will be tuned into the VOR already so it makes it a bit easier.

[wb9999]

So i guess if your aircraft is equipped as mine is , you have to call up and get the recording on the mobile, what is the purpose of having the ATIS on the VOR frequency?

At Guernsey a couple of weeks ago before startup, I went to tune into ATIS on com 1 and wondered why I couldn't select it (I've never come across ATIS on the VOR before). After about 5 seconds thinking WTF, I thought of tuning in the VOR and selecting NAV 1 on the radio panel, and to my surprise it worked. The VOR ident was quieter but audible enough during the ATIS broadcast.

[TRY2FLY]

The ATS your are talking to will be only too happy to give/get you the current weather at your destination or alternate, don't be afraid to ask.

[chevvron]

TRY2FLY: the whole point of ATIS is that you don't need to ask ATC for details; some units get a bit 'ratty' if you ask them for the weather etc and it's already being broadcast on another frequency.
Heathrow ATIS for instance is broadcast from OCK and BNN VORs plus from Heathrow itself, so there is no excuse for not listening to it.

[John R81]

err...... Isn't that 'the excuse', Chevvron? If your aircraft is not equipped with VOR you can't listen to a VOR broadcast ATIS? Not sure how you think it would be reasonable to berate someone for not getting the ATIS in that circumstance.

[mad_jock]

No its not an issue with the fact you are asking but with the fact you didn't give them the correct information to start with.

"Negative VOR equipped request ATIS" will get a completely different response to
"Request your latest wx" or "request airfield information"

First one you will be treated as you have a clue the second two you will be treated as someone who is clueless quite rightly

[tmmorris]

Presumably this was originally to help those equipped with only one COM/VOR box? In which case I'd have said it was obsolete. Or is it so you can listen to both simultaneously without needing two VHF radios and a fancy intercom?*

Tim

*which we have on the PA28 I fly normally, so I do this quite regularly.

[ShyTorque]

Heathrow ATIS for instance is broadcast from OCK and BNN VORs plus from Heathrow itself, so there is no excuse for not listening to it.

Unless you're on the ground at Heathrow prior to engine start and therefore can't receive the beacon ident.....

[fireflybob]

Correct me if I am wrong but recall that at LHR the arrival ATIS is on BNN/OCK VOR versus the departure ATIS is on VHF COM freq - 121.85 MHz?

[piperboy84]

Presumably this was originally to help those equipped with only one COM/VOR box? In which case I'd have said it was obsolete. Or is it so you can listen to both simultaneously without needing two VHF radios and a fancy intercom?*

I have a panel mounted Garmin SL40 wired thru a fancy PMA 8000 4 place intercom with every bell and whistle on it, i can listen the the ipod, use my mobile and a whole bunch of other **** i would never need/want to do, but I only have COM frequency range so I guess i will just buy a little handheld nav/com radio for picking up any ATIS's that are on the 109-110 NAV range. It just caught me unawares at Inverness as i had never came across this before, but the tower were dashed decent and relayed the info to me. I know what MJ is saying about just explaining why I cant tune them in but you do feel a bit of a prat all the same not being prepared when you make first contact for transitions etc if they are busy.

[Jim59]

Blame ofcom for charging thousands of pounds for each separate frequency.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Its a perfectly sensible way to economise on frequencies in an intensive radio environment like Europe. Why use a good comms freq when there's a spare VOR going unused? Not many aircraft are non-VOR equipped so few are inconvenienced, and the few that are can easily be accommodated. It may also give longer range reception.

In the US they take the idea one stage further, you transmit to an air traffic service on its VHF freq and they transmit back - and you receive their reply on the local (or sometimes not all that local) VOR freq. That doesn't economise on the RT spectrum so there must be another good reason for it.

[ShyTorque]

Correct me if I am wrong but recall that at LHR the arrival ATIS is on BNN/OCK VOR versus the departure ATIS is on VHF COM freq - 121.85 MHz?

But unfortunately not all aircraft radios have the correct 8.33 kHz spacing to receive that frequency, nor are they yet mandated to do so.

(Actually, I think it's 121.935 for the departure ATIS).

[fireflybob]

But unfortunately not all aircraft radios have the correct 8.33 kHz spacing to receive that frequency, nor are they yet mandated to do so.

(Actually, I think it's 121.935 for the departure ATIS).


Shy Torque, thanks - good points!

[Piper.Classique]

A lot of airports in France publish a phone number for the ATIS. In the Carte Vac, free online and various apps.

[mad_jock]

Most have them in the UK now as well.

INV has a phone ATIS.

[Maoraigh1]

i will just buy a little handheld nav/com radio for picking up any ATIS's that are on the 109-110 NAV range
My Icom won't get the Inverness ATIS readable on the VOR until I'm nearer than my normal radio contact points, when I'll have been given the numbers. The COM can be used at a much greater distance - including transmit.

[mad_jock]

In a spam can I have never managed to get the VOR at normal levels while flying unless just at the Cromarty gap.

Mind you even in the work machine with a bit more height on you didn't get a decent usable signal until you were nearly into the direct arrival procedures.

[BackPacker]

My Icom won't get the Inverness ATIS readable on the VOR until I'm nearer than my normal radio contact points

A VOR signal is horizontally polarized, while COM is vertically polarized - or the other way around. The tiny whip antenna on the Icom is not ideal to deal with VOR signals, and neither will the airplanes COM antenna be if you connect the Icom to that. You would have to connect the Icom to the NAV antenna for good reception.

Have you ever tried holding the Icom horizontally while trying to receive a VOR frequency? When I was playing around with homebuilt external antennas for a Bearcat scanner, altering the antenna orientation made an enormous difference. (That was with a dipole antenna which is not quite the same as the whip antenna in the Icom, but who knows?)

[Jonzarno]

You can also use the Volmet reports:

Volmet (http://users.whsmithnet.co.uk/colin.martin/weather/volmet.html)

As you can see, Inverness is included in the Scottish list.

[Jetblu]

It is interesting that within that volmet link that London LGW is listed in the London North section, I have never noticed this before.

[mad_jock]

You won't get volmet below FL55 FL 60 in the highlands.

But if your speaking to Scottish info those helpful types will give you whatever you want sometimes at FL200 over London. Sometimes they give you wx when you don't even want it.