Career advice

[dirk85]

Hello everyone!

I need a little bit of advice from you fellow aviators.

I have been flying, and I still do, a midsize business jet for about 3 years and a half, with a company change in the middle.
My total time is about 1600 hours, with more than 1000 hours on this particoular type, on different companies.

I see no future in this company, but most of all, I find myself totally unhappy: with the current (lack of) roster the quality time I am able to spend at home is very low. Not that I would have much money to spend in my days off anyway, since the salary is ridicously low. The colleagues are all nice and all, but the motivation level among the pilots is below ground level. No respect whatsoever toward employees by the company, and no sign of improvements. Any attempt to improve is just a waste of time and energy.
For the first time since I fly, I have experienced what it means going to work, and actually hating every second of it. And beware, I love flying, and I love general aviation flying.

I spend all my time sending out CV, but the type I fly is not particoulary marketable at the moment.

Having said that I have now the remote possibility to join another company, operating turboprop, not far from where I live now.
The money would be slightly better, and people working there seem to be reasonably happy.

Would you consider this kind of move at this point?
Jet to Turboprop... not such a great career move, one would say.

Other things that make me think... this job I have right now is not good, but still in some way might allow me to make some contacts... as you know in this business networking is the key. Thing that would be much more difficult in an Airline.

I appreciate any kind of advice.

Thank you!

[bacp]

I think as a general rule (in the UK) if you are on TP's then its a case of being stuck there while all the PTF people jump over you on to the jets. So, I think staying on a jet, in career terms is a better option.
If you made the move to scheduled TP's would your quality of life be any better? If Flybe is anything to go by, the FO's don't have much quality of life.
Depending on your age and circumstances I would be inclined to tough it out where you are while constantly keeping your eyes open for an opportunity as a DEP on jets with BA or any other reputable outfit. I have met quite a Bizjet drivers who are very happy with their lot, but a lot of time away from home is normal. Best of luck.
PS if you are young enough, retrain as a lawyer/accountant and have a less exciting job, but a life!

[gianninipilot]

It's funny that u are in a situation like this one...!!!

I fly a heavy turbo-prop for 12 years with almost 7000 hours on type and believe me for the last 3 years i ve been trying to get onto a jet....BUT it's impossible!!!

Everybody is looking for the type rated guy with more than 500hours on jet.

As u can see i am stuck on the opposite side of the one you are at.

My advice is don't hop on my side...

By the way i make more money than all my friends on A320 and b737 but still i am not happy...i am fed up of the turbo-prop and i am thinking of resigning forever from aviation

Good luck whatever u decide....

[IXUXU]

From jet to turboprop ....

At the end is your happiness mate, no airline gives a sh*t about your previous experience anymore.....they want you with the exact type rating and the required hours on type.
If the money and the quality of life are better.. I would say that´s a step forward in your career.

Go for it.

[SloppyJoe]

What is important to you? You only live once and if you spend most of that time being miserable what is the point of it. You have jet hours in a type that you can't get a better job on the same type, cant switch type as like you say type experience is required.

The way I see it is like this.

You have jet hours and are in a position to get some more if you stay put. Will more jet hours on a type you can't get off be useful. Probably not.

If you take the TP job I expect you will have a happier more structured life. You wont lose your jet hours but you will lose your currency on that type, which you can't get a job on anyway at a better company.

If you take the turboprop job I assume it is with an airline so you add airline ops to your CV.

If you take the turboprop I think your total time will increase much quicker.

When the industry picks up you still have your jet time, more total time and experience in an airline.

I don't think going from a jet to a turboprop is a backwards step. There are so many idiots in this industry that just have to get into a jet even if they are prepared to earn less than the person who cleans that jet. That is what is wrong with this industry, the :mad: who spend £150,000 to get a job that pays £1500 a month, just so they can post a pic of themselves in an A320/737 on facebook to impress their mates. Pathetic.

Its about quality of life in the end, doing what you want to do with your family and friends, who cares what you fly you should be more focused on getting a better job that fits the lifestyle you want. If everyone who got into this industry did it for quality of life, things would be very very different and you would not have the kids working for peanuts or the turboprop captain wanting to get into a jet even if it means a paycut and reduction in quality of life.

Take the better job, that's my advice.

[beachbumflyer]

That's one of the best arguments I've seen here, "if everyone that got into this industry did for quality of life,things would be very very different........"
That's it, it's quality of life what matters in the end. But a lot of guys don't get it.
They have no respect for themeselves and sell their soul to the devil for peanuts screwing a lot of pilots on the way to the bottom.

[Caboclo]

If you're planning on a career with the airlines, then don't go TP. They will see it as a step back; as Giannini said, the airlines only care about jet time. However, if you're willing to spend your career in TPs, there might be some good options available. I can only speak for America; I don't know what the industry is like where you are, but over here the medevac industry employs a large number of King Air pilots at a pretty decent wage. If you can live where you're based, and live close to the airport, you can spend all your standby time at home.

And when you get fed up with the industry and quit, you'll be in good company. I did just that a couple years ago. After accumulating 7000 hours, including 3000 twin turbine PIC, and being routinely ignored by every airline except the poverty-wage regionals, I decided to go drive a truck. I've now doubled my salary, and have no regrets whatsoever. I do miss flying, but no regrets.

[Pork chop express]

The job closer to home, slightly more money reasonably happy crews and quality of life...Another type on your licence. No brainer. :ok:

[Rat Catcher]

SloppyJoe :D:D
Quality of life, you only have one after all

[bacp]

I think a slight reality check on what quality of life 'is' for the European pilots working for a TP operator. It usually involves cr#p pay and conditions, working up to the maximum hours each month and almost all your colleagues trying any way they can to leave. This is not to say that there are no happy TP pilots, those I flew with in Scotland doing Highlands and Islands loved it because they could live in their location of choice. That seems to be the only 'quality of life' card that carries any weight. Oh, and most of them were also drawing a pension from a previous life, that helped.
DIRK85 should analyse what particular items about his current job make him the least happy (because, lets face it, pilots by nature are always unhappy about something!) and make damn sure that particular issue is addressed by moving to a TP. If its not about location,location,location, then the golden glow of a new job will soon wear thin.
And, another type rating on your licence, in this day and age, carries absolutely no worth at all, unless you happen to have a matched pair of A320 and B737. Even then, without a regular LPC, one will be useless after 2 years.
Keep with the jet time and hope for happier days,IMHO.

[el caballero rojo]

I would stay on a Jet. I had 3000 hours TP before I got my first jet. It was either Captain on a TP or FO on the 320. The colleagues who choose the CMD are stuck ever since on the TP. I moved on over the years and although a Command is still written in between the stars, I fly long haul for over 9 years now. I do not regret this. It is just the company and the general industry misery that holds up.
There are some exceptions that got from CMD TP to CMD Jet but these were other times and companies like Vueling or Wizzair.

[dirk85]

You all aren't making it easy for me are you? :O
You are making very convincing cases for either option, which is not really helpful.
Just kidding, I appreciate all your contributions, of course.

If it wasnt that right now I am working for a company that is making me feel like a miserable piece of c**p while actually doing a job that I was loving until a few months ago, this would be a no brainer.

I am not one of those dreaming to go to the Airline at all costs, not at all.
I am seriously convinced that the best jobs are in GA, but that are not easy to catch, at all. I have known many colleagues in this business working for owners respecting their professionality, well paid and on beautiful and rewarding planes, while still able to retain a good lifestyle.
There are not many, but they are there. How to get them?
Most definitely not by going TP... sad to say but it is only by means of contacts and networking that you can climb that long and steep ladder that is business aviation. Bailing out from this sector would probably mean to say bye bye to any hope in this sense.
The ironic side of the story is that I was a few weeks ago just a few inches from nailing one of these dream jobs, but at the end it didnt go through, which is making this current situation even more bitter.

Having said this it is also very true that you live only once, and that being happy with what you do is more important than what kind of plane you fly.
Having to go to work not knowing when you will be back, but with the certainty that in the process you will be abused left, right and center is not an experience that I raccomend to anyone.

I work now from an airport close to where I have grown, but still the new opportunity would be close enough. But this is not the problem: I am relatively young, single, relocating is not a problem, and I see that more like an opportunity rather than a problem. The new rating on the license would be useful only in term of experience, not really in terms of marketability, since we are talking of a not very common plane.

In the meantime I will do my best to gather information about the TP company, but trust me, I am still far from making my mind. :(

Any other suggestion and comment is still more than welcome.

[Mikehotel152]

I am relatively young, single, relocating is not a problem, and I see that more like an opportunity rather than a problem.

:ok:

That's the right attitude.

[Mach E Avelli]

In the past it was often difficult to convince employers that you could actually make the transition to a jet from a turbo-prop. The old nonsense about "you can't fly a jet unless you have flown a jet" was put about by ex-military types as a way of leaping over the rest of us plebs down there at FL 210 in all the bad weather. Thankfully, we now know that jets are actually EASY to fly and anyway you already have jet time on your c.v.

As someone said here, these days they want you rated in a specific type anyway. AND usually current within the last six months.

My advice, for what it's worth: If your job sucks, look around and if the best on offer is a turbo-prop job, provided that it offers an improvement in your overall well-being, go for it. I have switched back and forth between jets and turbo-props several times in my career with no problems, so going to a TP won't cause your brain to somehow atrophy. If anything, changing types every few years does wonders for the skills.

[angelorange]

....until we walk through it !

But maybe a different shade of brown is better than no change at all.

All the best - try not to regret the past and enjoy today.