ILS CAT III

[kingmomo]

Hello
i was confused about ILS CAT III
can it really land an aircraft and taxi it + take it to the gate
i ask all instructors in my collage , they say it can only land it , i ask some captains i know they say its true which is CAT III C
and if its true what airports it exist
thx

[Ollie Onion]

It can autoland the aircraft to an appropriately equipped runway. It will track the centerline down to taxi speed. You then have to disconnect the autopilot and taxi if off the runway the old fashioned way.

So 'land' yes,
'taxi' NO.

[Dora-9]

The easy bit is the autoland (although it takes some faith), the frightening bit is taxying and trying to find your way around a fog shrouded airfield. Sometimes (e.g. Frankfurt) they send out a "Follow Me" van which works well - providing he can find you!

[fl610]

Or you could put EVS in your aircraft.:ok:

Enhanced Vision System (EVS) - Gulfstream (http://www.gulfstream.com/product_enhancements/evs/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR9lyAM2YNE

[Yobbo]

Not in Australia

[fl610]

Of course not! :E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E

[Capt Fathom]

In Australia. Melbourne.

[Homesick-Angel]

Is it installed at ymml yet? If so I thought the problem was crews (in aus) not trained to use it..??

Woulda been useful over the last 12 hours or so!

[kingmomo]

my question still , does it exist or not ^^
thx for the answer guys

[Ghost_Rider737]

The lowest minima I've seen is Cat 3 B.

No Decision Height but a minimum RVR of 75m is required. I'm sure this is a minimum visual reference for taxying.
CAT 3 C does not feature in my companys ops manual.

[esreverlluf]

YMML has Cat IIIB - Minima 0'/75m RVR.

All Qantas long-haul crews and aircraft are trained/capable (ie B767, B747, A330, A380). Not sure about the short-haul guys or the other companies.

It is absurd that YSSY does not have the appropriate ground equipment.

[felixthecat]

Im with GhostRider, lowest I have seen and flown in 3B No decision and 75m RVR, land and track the centre line to taxi speed taxi in to gate no.

[404 Titan]

kingmomo

There is only one catIII ILS in Australia and that is a catIIIB ILS on rwy16 in Melbourne. Required vis varies based on aircraft but for our company Airbus is 75m and Boeing 100m.

I find it hard to believe any captain would tell you that the system would taxi you to the gate. All it will do is allow an auto land with an auto roll out on the rwy. You're on your own for the taxi in except for precision ground radar for taxi guidance though without checking the Melbourne charts I can't tell if that is installed.

[kingmomo]

aha
i have been searching , and i have found that in heathrow airport that kind of system is installed but no idea if it can taxi you ,
thx guys really helpfull information
btw CAT IIIb has a DC of 0-50m and RVR of 75 , it doesnt have to be 0 DC minima right? as i learned in airlaw o.O

[Ollie Onion]

Just to clarify, there is NO system installed at ANY airport in the world that will allow a Commercial Airliner to taxi itself.

[404 Titan]

Lookingforajob & Kingmomo

With the exception of France the following DH (Decision Height) generally apply:

Cat 2 = 100ft
Cat 3A = 50ft
Cat 3B = 0ft
Cat 3C = 0ft

[Wally Mk2]

'Kingm' I think yr Q has been well answered here by those in the know.

If you have a logical think about it, guidance to the gate after Ldg automatically from an ILS would be extremely impracticable & damned dangerous. The amount of mobile equip en-route to yr gate especially around the apron area would make the journey in fog very hazardous.
Technology would be there that's for sure but there would be too many variables like closed taxi-ways/routes at random times, blocked taxiways due other A/C & the specter of equipment failure both onboard the A/C & any ground based tracking/guidance system just for starters not to mention human error. Simply the possible problems far outweigh any benefits.

Wmk2

[avconnection]

Sounds to me like the captains are having a bit of fun with a freshly minted cadet. :ok:

[kingmomo]

ok thx guys i got it all now
----------------
avconnection
what do you mean :o

[sleeve of wizard]

Don't forget it's not just about the aircraft, what happens when the inevitable emergency arises, if the vis was 0m how does the RFF services find you?
75m has been established as a reasonable vis for the fire services to still be able to navigate the labyrinth of taxi ways service roads etc to be able to reach you in the required period of time.:ok:

[oz in dxb]

An ILS will not be able to taxi an A/C to the gate, but in the future GBAS may have the accuracy to to it.

ILS will be on the way out as soon as GBAS is introduced. It will be more accurate and less prone to interference.

Oz

[Wally Mk2]

'Wiz' that's a good addition here as to why there isn't auto taxi facilities at Dromes.
The Tenerife accident comes to mind here as if I recall the RFF services headed in the direction of the glow from the fire which was at first the KLM airframe & didn't notice (wasn't aware) the Pan Am wrecked airframe further down the Rwy for quite some time,(could have been the other way round, memory 'foggy') so much for the req'd 500 m or so for T/off although I think some rwy lighting wasn't avail meaning more vix was needed, 800 M.


Wmk2

[halas]

Heathrow is different.
Like Singapore, their taxi instructions are "follow the greens".

They can selectively activate and deactivate taxi centre line lights and stop bars.
This makes it a peace of piss to taxi in low viz.

Maybe thats where the info got crossed from reality to fantasy?

halas

[Thomas330]

On a CAT111B approach below alert hight (200) Ft if Capt's PFD fails can you continue the approach and land or go around and configure the instruments by using EFIS and come and land with both PFD's working? :confused:

[DeltaT]

I haven't seen any one mention yet that the aircraft must have the suitable autoland systems in the aircraft and backups working, and have been checked as doing one successfully in the previous x days, as well the pilots having done the same also in the previous y days.
Happy to be corrected if I am wrong on all that.
Just because it can fly down a ILS III doesn't mean legally it can do the autoland at the end.

[clear to land]

Here in the sandpit there is absolutely no requirement for the aircraft to do an autoland on a regular basis-its comes straight from the box!. As far as the human element goes, depending on bidding and scheduling you can go a long time without doing one for real. The only legal requirement is box ticked in each 6 monthly check, the LVO qual itself is formally revalidated every 12 months.

[Thomas330]

Hi,
Any one who is on airbus please tell me On a CAT111B approach below alert hight (200) Ft if Capt's PFD fails can you continue the approach and land or go around and configure the instruments by using EFIS and come and land with both PFD's working? :confused: