Is US a police state now?

[PBY]

I used to enjoy going there for a vacation and renting. I felt it was a land of free. But last time I have flown there was 2004. But after reading this,
I am thinking more australia and Europe. Any experience with this hassle, anybody?

Annals of the Security State: Even More Airplane Stories - James Fallows - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/annals-of-the-security-state-even-more-airplane-stories/276239/)

[The Dominican]

Now? It's been trending that way for a while now.:ugh:

[Kapitanleutnant]

I have to admit I was thinking the same thing after my last stay in the US. Born and raised there but went overseas for better income. I think police state might be a bit strong, however it does feel like the country is going down that road a bit more whether by necessity or otherwise.

Just an observation.....

[MrMachfivepointfive]

In 1988 me (Kraut) and my (Norwegian) flight instructor drove home from Milledgeville GA to Sandersville GA after watching a movie. It was about midnight. 30 miles through absolutely nothing and nobody. Halfway, my instructor decided to respond to the call of nature and headed for the bushes. The car behind us was the stereotype 300lb, bored cop. He arrested my CFI for public exposure. The poor guy spent the night in jail. Whenever in the US (only on duty - never for holiday) the emergency number of my embassy is always in my wallet.

[Gomrath]

He arrested my CFI for public exposure.

The moral being - don't break the law!
Your (Norwegian) CFI is now unable to return to the US on a visa waiver and will have to apply for a full visa should he ever want to come back - even for a holiday.
As you cannot enter the US on the Visa Waiver if having ever been previously arrested. (Note - arrested - doesn't have to have been subsequently charged)..

[MrMachfivepointfive]

The moral being - don't break the law!
Which law? He took a leak, in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, behind a bush, next to a deserted and unlighted secondary road. The fat cop who by chance trundled along was simply bored and applies 'the law' in an abrbitrary way to amuse himself. Ergo: Police state. As of the consequences...

[Selfmade92]

Yes it is, I came from Europe 3 years ago to this country and it is horrible what the police is allowed to do... and people here don't care at all. :D

[The Range]

Yeah, the police there shoot first then ask questions. I loved the States, but I don't like it anymore. After 11 Sept. they are paranoid.

[air pig]

Entered the USA at Buffalo last year, took an hour to pass immigration, unsmiling gruff staff, Canada fantastic reception by immigration smiling happy and more important welcoming myself to their country. Try Canada, fantastic place.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Try Canada, fantastic place.

Totally agree. Canada - The best part of North America.

[westhawk]

Yeah it's so bad here in the US. I've had 2 runs ins with the cops in the last 15 years and one of them resulted in a traffic ticket. The other time the officer advised me that one of my tail lights was inoperative and said I should see about replacing it. Fascists! :{

And entering the US in a bizjet is just ridiculous. Out of the last 100 or so times having to clear customs at an airport of entry, I've been spoken to in a less than welcoming manner by an agent on 2 or 3 occasions. Why can't they smile more?

But I agree, the Canadians are great. Go visit them!

Airline travel is another matter altogether though. Count me in with the whiners and complainers when it comes to dealing with TSA. As President, my first act would be to fire the whole sorry lot and start over. I'm not likely to run for the office though, so expect more of the same from them for the foreseeable future.

[RandomPerson8008]

Yep. You can thank whackos ranging from terrorists to insane people shooting up schools and movie theaters for making people paranoid. Then you also have the CNN/Fox news/MSNBC 24/7 media constantly drumming up stories to scare people with so they can sell advertising.

Even for petty crimes the authorities will go out of their way to ruin your entire life unless you pay off the right people. I didn't pay a speeding ticket on time when I was 17 (turned in the fine money a few days late), was arrested, mugshotted, and now it's on the internet for eternity whenever someone googles my name.

I carry a concealed pistol on my person almost all the time when I'm at home stateside, but I truly fear the state & federal governments more than I do ordinary citizens. A pistol is scant protection from the real boogeymen.

[jsfboat]

This country is so afraid of it's own shadow. If you have a neighbor who's dog barks at the early morning hours, and you go to ask him to keep it quiet at night when you have a 4 day trip starting the next morning with a 430 show. You will be arrested as having threatened your neighbor just by asking him to keep his dog quiet.

If you want to look at a police state, look at the home owners association for a particular neighborhood, they stipulate what brand and color of paint to buy for the house, when to paint it (even though it may not need new paint) how tall the grass has to be, what you can and can't have on YOUR property, permits to do the smallest of jobs to the house, mandatory meetings, and if you flip them the bird, they will take your house. Who wants to own a house when someone can come in and take it because they don't like you? Legal theft is all it is. People are afraid to do anything about it and other things in the US.... This generates fear and frustration, which causes violence, and even more fear frustration and the furthering policing of stupid things. I hope to go abroad eventually, thankfully my wife is Colombian.

[OFBSLF]

You are comparing the US now to police states like East Germany? Seriously?

:rolleyes:

The US has its issues, certainly, as do all countries. But take off your tinfoil hat.

[alouette3]

I agree with OFBSLF. What you guys are talking about are minor irritants as a reasonable response (as opposed to the great nation of Israel's response) to a changing world order. The last time I looked, nobody flew airliners into buildings in Canada or Europe. And, until cops wielding automatic weapons with fierce dogs on leash are a common sight here at most airports, ( as they are in most of Europe) I refuse to acknowledge that the US is a police state.:rolleyes:
Even if it is, the shuffle of a million pair of feet trying to move here, live here, work here or even just train here seems to continue. Why is that I wonder?:confused:
And that guy whose wife is Colombian? Try living there for a few years and, if you survive, come back and tell us how it is. :ugh:
The US maybe a lot of things to a lot of people but the one thing it is not is a police state. Those who think otherwise are welcome to leave (you can still do that ,you know, unlike a few other places where your passport is surrendered upon entry) or not visit at all.:mad:
Alt3

[falcon10]

Was driving around in Spain with friends. Got pulled over after leaving a bar. Driver was over their limit but below what is allowed in the USA. Paid the fine on the spot and we drove off. 'nuff said.

America is a joke and definitely a police state with trigger happy cops and over zealous prosecutors looking to rack up convictions for their CV and job advancement. I'll take the personal freedoms of Europe and other places rather than deal with that nonsense. Sadly, the sheeple who don't know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy are too lazy to do anything about it.

[Kefuddle]

This utube springs to mind Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

[westhawk]

Yeah, like most countries, the USA has it's share of problems in finding the right balance of personal liberties and security. I personally believe the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of security over liberty, but the media and politicos benefit from creating fear and worry. So the general perception is somewhat different than the reality I experience in my own life.

For those of us who live relatively normal lives of working, playing and living mostly within the law, we don't have much interaction with law enforcement or indeed any branch of local, state or federal government. Work, pay taxes. don't run too far afoul of the law and I am free to do pretty much whatever my finances allow provided I don't step on the wrong toes. All this hysterical whinging about a "police state" and "trigger happy cops" is something I just don't see in my mundane little middle-class (lower half) existence.

The bottom line is that a certain amount of law enforcement against the lowlifes of this world needs to be aggressively accomplished or innocent law-abiding taxpayers suffer the consequences. I'd like to see this done without impeding my rights or liberties, but the balance is difficult to find when hysteria and sensationalism rules the conversation.

I made a couple of tongue-in-cheek comments earlier in this thread the hope that a sense of humor might be introduced into this rather inane and bitchy thread. Wasted effort I suppose.

I've spent time all over Europe, North America, the Caribbean, Central America etc and found that experiencing things for myself is often quite different than the media hype might lead one to expect. Most places I'd like to see again even though I wouldn't necessarily prefer to live there, under their cultural and societal systems. But I have no desire to disparage their systems or tell them how they should be. I reserve my criticism for my own society and invite all of you who don't prefer America to do the same. We'll get along fine without your input.

westhawk

[The Dominican]

And that guy whose wife is Colombian? Try living there for a few years and, if you survive, come back and tell us how it is.

Seems you didn't make any research before you made that statement, the number of American expats in Colombia (and many other places in South America for that matter) had exploded in the past decade. Go figure! I have a few friends that are real state agents there, the vast majority of expats purchasing properties in Colombia are from the US now a days!

[The Dominican]

Activist Post: Is It Time to Pack Your Bags America? (http://www.activistpost.com/2013/02/is-it-time-to-pack-your-bags-america.html?m=1:hmm:)

Places like Belize, Colombia, Panama, Peru, Ecuador, all these countries have experienced an increase of over 4 to 5 times the amount of Americans purchasing property and moving to these nations. Numbered in the millions!!! You have to admit that even just a decade ago, that number was very low and in many cases just transient (job transfer or military assignments)
The US is still and will continue to be a shining star of opportunity for many, but many folks are moving abroad, in numbers you never saw before

[OFBSLF]

It is odd to me that, of all people, some Europeans seem to have forgotten what a true police state is.

When was the last time someone was shot to death trying to escape from the United States? When was the last time someone was denied an exit visa from the United States? When was the last time someone was jailed for criticizing the US President?

Does the US legal system have problems? Yes, it absolutely does. The same is true of every country, to a greater or lesser degree. But the US is not a police state. Eastern European countries during the Soviet Era were police states, and as European citizens, you, of all people, should know the difference.

Calling the United States a police state undercuts whatever point you were trying to make.

[The Range]

If you don't believe the U.S. is a police state, read this:

NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers: report - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nsa-collecting-phone-records-verizon-010806360.html)

[B-HKD]

I'm a U.S. citizen born in Italy. Lived in Italy/Germany for 3/4 of my 21 years of life and live in the U.S. now.

Like it or not, unless you live here you probably have no clue what the laws are or how the system actually works on a day to day basis.

Personally, I believe as a law abiding citizen there is no better system to live in. Its simple, you dont mess with the law and the law doesnt mess with you. There is no gray areas. Its all straightforward and made clear from day 1 at elementary school.

On the other hand, In Italy you have a complete lack of law, crime and poverty everywhere. Too much to even discuss.

Germany, great country all around, but the closest thing to a police state I have ever lived in. Examples...you can get pulled over at any given time while driving for no reason except that the officers want to check your license etc. etc. You can get fined for 'offending' a public official. Public officials are treated as if they are somehow 'above' the average citizen. No big issues, but just an example of the different approach to freedom and rights.

Terrible integration of immigrants... never met U.S. born individual from a first generation immigrant family not speaking the language.

In Germany? You meet third/fourth German Turks who dont speak a word of German. :ugh:

I do admit the gun problem is troubling, but it can only get better, and at least the public has the power to make changes in this country. Maybe tomorrow or maybe sometime in the future. But change is always possible in the U.S.

Do we need to ban guns? Absolutely not. Nobody ever wishes to face a situation with a intruder at home. If god forbid it does ever happen, you have the right to defend yourself and your family. And if indeed it and it comes to the intruder being shot, then you will not face the law for defending yourself and your family. I dont know another country where private property is as protected and valued as the U.S.

In any case, some changes in the law need to happen so that we dont have jackasses going to schools and malls as we sadly all too often hear about on the news.

In Italy you still have politicians calling for the abolition of private property. Want to talk about self defense? It isn't even clearly defined by the law. Just google the countless cases of hard working people having guns pointed to their faces at point blank range during armed robberies. They fight back like anyone would, and then they are the ones being put on trial facing 10+ years for 'excessive' force used in self defense. Fact is, the moment someone chooses to point a gun in your face, you should have the right to defend yourself however you deem necessary.

Is the U.S. have its share of problems? Absolutely. However, knowing that we have a system that encourages and is open to change (as slow as it may come about at times) is all I need. Ultimately, what separates the country from the rest, Is the immense diversity of its people and as different as opinions may be on gun laws, abortion etc., we all want to move forward and we are all Americans. The sense of national pride is far stronger in this country than anywhere else I have lived.

Although insanely expensive today (needs to change) our universities are still the best in the world, and students flock in from all corners of the world to study here.

Name me 3. under 30 year olds who have started a billion dollar business in the last 20 years in Europe? You will have trouble finding even 1 who started a million dollar business.

In the U.S.? I could name you 100+ And the beauty of it is, many came from all reaches of the world to realize their goals and dreams here, because they know there is no better merit based system in the world that encourages entrepreneurship and technological advancement like the U.S.


If you don't believe the U.S. is a police state, read this:

NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers: report - Yahoo! Finance

I would rather have the NSA, FBI, CIA and hell even the FAA reading every single one of my text messages, emails, listening to my phone calls, because as a law abiding citizen you have nothing to hide, and If it helps stop another jackass from committing a horrendous and senseless act, then ultimately it makes us all safer.

[Dak Man]

What if your name was Abu Hamza and you were a law abiding citizen but your every move was monitored merely because you shared a name with a known extremist? What if they mistook you for him.....what if you were a Bazilian plumber expat living in London that found yourself dead because of failures in the process of the watchers?

The USA and UK are both de facto Police States and they have achieved this because of the apathetic "if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah" BS attitude married to scaremongering policies founded on very dubious grounds.

You can literally get away with murder but woe betide anyone that commits a crime against the State, it's tyrannical at best.

[B-HKD]

What if your name was Abu Hamza and you were a law abiding citizen but your every move was monitored merely because you shared a name with a known extremist? What if they mistook you for him.....what if you were a Bazilian plumber expat living in London that found yourself dead because of failures in the process of the watchers?

The USA and UK are both de facto Police States and they have achieved this because of the apathetic "if I have nothing to hide blah blah blah" BS attitude married to scaremongering policies founded on very dubious grounds.

You can literally get away with murder but woe betide anyone that commits a crime against the State, it's tyrannical at best.

That is the price we pay living in a free society. Is it really that hard to understand?

No doubt it is unfortunate Abu Hamza may have every step monitored for being Abu Hamza, but does it directly affect his life? Will anyone wrongfully imprison him let alone interfere with his life for even 1 second? Most likely never.

And when it happens...Abu Hamza has every right and his own voice to bring forward change, as long as he can find others who agree and share his viewpoints.

Also... dont compare the U.K. to the U.S..... In the U.K. you have fanatic clerics spewing out hate against the very system and society that was tolerant enough to accept them in the first place.

google Anjem Choudary....

Never met a American of muslim faith who doesnt believe and cherish the freedoms this country provides. There is no country in the world that respects freedom of religion more than the U.S.

[Dak Man]

Free Society, I struggle to think of anything I do that the Government does not have it's dirty hands in.

I don't buy this "price we pay" BS.

[B-HKD]

Free Society, I struggle to think of anything I do that the Government does not have it's dirty hands in.

I don't buy this "price we pay" BS.


Nobody is stopping you from changing whatever it is you disagree with.

Not refering to you Dak Man, but more often that not, it is the very same people who blindly vote and elect clowns who proceed to complain about the clowns.

If you dont like something, then work to change it. The freedoms in Democracy are always a recipe for disaster as it allows both the smart individuals and the not so smart individuals to voice opinions and make decisions that affect us all. Hence it is our duty as citizens (if we care) to step forward and make sure the clowns stay away from the positions that matter most.

If you want a perfect society where you have no responsabilities and the government is perfect and everyone is happy, call uncle Kim in North Korea.

[Dak Man]

B-HKD, I like your youthful utopian naivety.

They came for the Jews
I wasn't a Jew so I said nothing...........

[B-HKD]

Your implying there is something going on to which I am turning my back to because it doesnt directly affect me.

If so...please enlighten me

Are people being excecuted/imprisoned based on religion/race/shoe size?

One thing is voicing your complaints on a website and yet doing nothing about it in your daily life.

Either you care enough to change something, or you dont.

I live in the same world you live in and face the same responsibilities. Only difference is, it isnt my generation that created all the problems the we currently face ;)

If there is one thing I learned from life so far, is that you either get up and attempt to change the things you dont agree with, or you remain quiet if you choose not to. Its easy complain..

Either way, its not up to your generation anymore to bring about change. So sit back, and enjoy the ride.

[Dak Man]

Lovely sentiment.

In case you need it in future...:ok:

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4660886653371108&pid=1.7&w=216&h=154&c=7&rs=1&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.scamraiders.com%2fprofiles%2fblogs%2fsh aun-murphy-esq-pounds-the

[Selfmade92]

Germany is the furthest away from a police state...

You get just a tiny bit out of the norm and you're a suspect in this country, they'll invade your home, they'll invade you're privacy, tapping your phones, there was even a report that cops put gps locators below cars and many more things here in the US which are shady operations... just look at NY.. stop and frisk... how the hell can that be legal?

You can also look at all those FEMA camps being built to increase the loads of prisons by over 70%, for what? :confused:

and it's sad to see that people actually accept to be overseen by big brother for anything, i dont want them to read what i text my girlfriend, my mom or whoever i text or call.