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El Grifo
17th May 2013, 14:06
Any respect I had for Nigel Farage and his UKIP party have evaporated today.

He is a liar pure and simple, more accurately, a bigger twister of facts or at least as big as those in the other Parties.

BBC News - Nigel Farage blasts 'fascist' protesters after Edinburgh confrontation (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22566183)

He has now single-handedly destroyed any prospects he might have had in Scotland.

In the parlance of the Scots, he has "pished on his chips" :eek:

Fitter2
17th May 2013, 14:10
While I have not a great deal of respect for Farage as a politician (well, he's a politician, says it all really) I agree with him on this. Look at the characteristics of Fascists, and that mob displayed them.

Cacophonix
17th May 2013, 14:14
It seems that Scotland chucked Farage out of Edinburgh...

A little naive of him methinks to think that he would get a polite round of applause while he supped a pleasant pint and introduced UKIP as the next best thing to stovies in Scotland.

Caco

El Grifo
17th May 2013, 14:18
Yeah I know, that woman in the wheelchair !!! Proper bloody Nazi that one :ugh:

Just listen to the radio interview. He even accused the BBC Scotland reporter of displaying hatred.

Shot himself in the foot, both feet in fact.

Have you listened to the interview ?

green granite
17th May 2013, 14:45
It's very noticeable that when the left get scared that they might loose their influence over the media and politicians and bad mouthing doesn't work, they revert to the the storm-trooper tactics of hatred and violence to suppress free speech.

El Grifo
17th May 2013, 14:52
Well it was the right was it not, and there was only one of them ?

Have YOU listened to the radio interview ?

Lon More
17th May 2013, 15:20
Farage proves himself a fool yet again.

The UKIP Policy Nigel Farage Doesn’t Want to Talk About

Gerry Hassan

Open Democracy, March 8th 2013

UKIP are suddenly everywhere in the aftermath of their second place and 28% in the Eastleigh by-election. Nigel Farage, their irascible leader, is even more omnipotent with even more appearances on BBC ‘Question Time’ to look forward too.

North of the border UKIP have always had a perception, identity and popularity problem. They are widely seen as an English nationalist party, one whose idea of Britain is narrowly centred on a time when the two terms could be used interchangeably. It is a mindset stuck in a timewarp situated between the 1950s and 1970s, between the beginning and end of the Empire, and which yearns for an England which began to completely disappear in the decade of ‘The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin’ and ‘The Good Life’.

Nevertheless Scottish politics is not immune to people harking back to better yesterdays, and certainly there is a similar popular sentiment and aura of anti-politics, which dismisses all mainstream politics and politicians, in Scotland as elsewhere in the UK.

Post-Eastleigh, the Scottish media turned their attention to UKIP and their possible appeal in Scotland. The ‘Sunday Herald’ spoke to four party members, middle class and middle aged who all said the sort of things you would expect UKIP members to say, for example, Kim Terry, 56, from Girvan, stated that, ‘there’s people coming over here who are claiming everything when they have not put in a penny’ (1).

Nicola Sturgeon, SNP Deputy Leader commented that, ‘Eastleigh shows how far the politics of Westminster has diverged from Scotland – and it will boost the siren voices in the Tory Party who want to cuts out of Europe …’ (2) Alf Young in a piece in the previous day’s ‘Scotsman’ wanted to challenge the ‘Well, not here in Scotland’ view of UKIP support, writing, ‘Everywhere I go, I encounter growing disillusion about the capacity of conventional party politics to meet the challenges Scotland still faces’ (3).

None of these pieces, or any of UKIP’s members in the ‘Sunday Herald’ article, spoke of one of UKIP’s central policies with regard to Scotland – namely what they would do with the Scottish Parliament.

The 2011 UKIP manifesto for the Scottish Parliament, ‘We, the People’, is explicit and unashamed on this declaring in a section entitled, ‘Democracy first. We, the people, shall rule’, as its first point, ‘Retain the Scottish Parliament’ and then on the next line announcing, ‘Replace MSPs with Scottish Westminster MPs’ (4). Strangely, Nigel Farage in his appeal to Scottish voters, ‘Power to local people’, fails to mention this policy once (5).

This is abolition of the Scottish Parliament in everything but name; the replacement of a directly elected Scottish Parliament with what is in effect a Scottish Grand Committee. It would be using the trappings and surroundings of devolution to return to the reality of pre-devolution. The substance of this would be a mix of Labour majoritarian dominance (thanks to Westminster FPTP distortions) and what would in effect be Westminster direct rule.

It is a policy UKIP do not want to talk about in Scotland for understandable reasons; the Scottish Parliament as an institution is enormously popular in Scotland – a significant achievement in an age of anti-politics.

Why though have the entire Scottish media proven so accommodating in hiding this key UKIP policy? In a recent interview Farage did with Mandy Rhodes for ‘Holyrood’ magazine, he was not questioned at all about this policy (6); Rhodes later reflecting on twitter that he had declared in the interview, ‘I have always thought that some kind of federal system is the way forward for the UK’ (7).

UKIP policy has shifted on this, moving towards support for an English Parliament, but it is a strange, unreal federalism which proposes the abolition of the directly elected Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly; Paul Nuttall, UKIP Deputy Leader, in a party video on an English Parliament and the kind of union of the UK he believes in, leaves unstated Scots and Welsh policy (8).

UKIP is many things: one is a product of the crisis of British mainstream politics, while others include the inability of Westminster, a fear of change and the modern world, and the sense some people have that they are losing the old, certain Britain of yesteryear (and usually their imaginations), all wrapped up in fears over Europe and immigration.

The UKIP answer to this is some return to a golden age of Westminster supremacy and sovereignty: a stance which might work well with Eurosceptics, but which doesn’t go down very well in Scotland or Wales (where their policy is a mirror image of Scotland: abolition of the Welsh Assembly, but let’s not call it that! (9)).

The emergence and rise of UKIP is a symptom of the deep malaise at the heart of British politics and society, and the failure of mainstream parties and elites to address the long-term underlying causes or the powerful interests who have produced this state of affairs. People are naturally confused, disappointed and searching for answers, with some looking for them in a mythical Britain which never existed, and cannot be realistically created today.

This is an unhelpful reminder to the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties of their shortcomings and the narrow bandwidth of Westminster politics. It isn’t surprising that Scottish, along with Welsh, politics should provide such unfertile terrain for UKIP, marching as they are to such a different beat from that of Westminster. Strange that UKIP don’t want to talk about such a distinctive policy, and that the media seem happy to let them so easily off the hook.

Notes

1. Jody Harrison, ‘Meet the Scots who vote UKIP’, Sunday Herald, March 3rd 2013, Meet the Scots who vote Ukip | Herald Scotland (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/meet-the-scots-who-vote-ukip.20387989)

2. Tom Gordon, ‘SNP: Eastleigh proves gulf exists between Scotland and England’, Sunday Herald, March 3rd 2013, SNP: Eastleigh proves gulf exists between Scotland and England | Herald Scotland (http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/snp-eastleigh-proves-gulf-exists-between-scotland-and-england.20398486)

3. Alf Young, ‘Is Scotland safe from UKIP surge?’, The Scotsman, March 2nd 2013,

Alf Young: Is Scotland safe from Ukip surge? - Comment - Scotsman.com (http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/alf-young-is-scotland-safe-from-ukip-surge-1-2818544)

4. UKIP, ‘We, the People: UKIP’s straight-talking manifesto for the Scottish Parliament elections 2011’, UKIP, 2011, p. 4,

http://www.ukip.org/media/pdf/LocalManifestoScotsDL.pdf

5. Ibid., p. 2.

6. Mandy Rhodes, ‘Carry-on Farage’, Holyrood, February 11th 2013, Carry-on Farage | Holyrood Magazine (http://www.holyrood.com/2013/02/carry-on-farage/)

7. twitter, March 4th 2013, https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy

8. Paul Nuttall, ‘UKIP and an English Parliament’, UKIP, February 10th 2012, http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/2608-ukip-and-an-english-parliament

9. UKIP, ‘We, the People: UKIP’s straight-talking manifesto for the Welsh Assembly elections 2011’, UKIP, 2011,

http://ukip.org/media/pdf/LocalManifestoWalesDL.pdf


He's lucky he wasn't deemed a substitute for he Wicker Man

Two's in
17th May 2013, 15:43
It's very noticeable that when the left get scared that they might loose their influence over the media and politicians and bad mouthing doesn't work, they revert to the the storm-trooper tactics of hatred and violence to suppress free speech.

I thought the UKIP were right-wing? You learn something everyday.

Milo Minderbinder
17th May 2013, 16:18
very reminiscent of the kind of demonstrations orchestrated againt the Tories in the 1970's by the likes of the Socialist Workers Student Organisation and the International Marxist Group, hiding under the guise of the "Broad Left".
And I would guess that these protesters were a similar bunch of extremist idiots.
Its worth remembering that such demonstrations were a manifestation of the extremists realisation that the Tories were gaining in popularity and likely to win the next election. I wonder if this presages a similar experience?

El Grifo
17th May 2013, 16:20
A bunch of about 100 students mate :ugh:

Milo Minderbinder
17th May 2013, 16:39
"A bunch of about 100 students mate"

yes - a bunch led by a few extremists and brainwashed into creating a scene.
Very typical of how the Tories were treated all those years ago. I and a few friends used to take great delight in catching the ringleading egg-throwers and treating them to rough justice.

Davaar
17th May 2013, 16:48
I and a few friends used to take great delight in catching the ringleading egg-throwers and treating them to rough justice.

Rough justice! Goodness, Milo! Really?

Reminds me of the dear old ballad:

Die Strasse frei, dem braunen Bataillonen;
Die Strasse frei, dem Sturmabteilungsmann



No?

Cacophonix
17th May 2013, 16:50
Democracy is all about making a scene. If Farage wants to go and peddle his wares in the street then he must be able take the rough with the smooth.

As it was he was just shouted down. Nothing was thrown and it appears that no blood was spilled although to listen to him you'd think he had been scalped the poor wee baern.

Mind you there's nothing like a good punch up to revitalise those democratic juices no matter what one's politics are. Good for the body politic but bad for democracy in the long run..

Caco

Edited to say that I harken to Davaar's warning from history....

Krystal n chips
17th May 2013, 16:52
" a bunch led by a few extremists and brainwashed into creating a scene.
Very typical of how the Tories were treated all those years ago. I and a few friends used to take great delight in catching the ringleading egg-throwers and treating them to rough justice.


Really ?......so lets see, from criminologist, to freudian repression, now onto political pundit, not forgetting carrying a large hammer "for defensive reasons"..when riding a motorbike ( and a bit of soothsaying..what do you foresee here oh sage? ) ..... and now !....Charles Bronson emulator ....vigilante of this parish no less.!!!:ooh:

Any particular reason you " and a few friends"...well nothing like going in with a little back up really I suppose, decided to replace the constabulary and the judicial system...all in the public interest no doubt ?.

Such an eclectic life Milo...have you been approached for the book and film rights yet we wonder ??

Still, that's just the sort of public spirited citizenship this country needs does it not !

mustpost
17th May 2013, 17:00
Methinks he's not exactly going to hit the spot by having anoher hissy fit...
BBC News - Nigel Farage blasts 'anti-English' protesters (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22566180)

airship
17th May 2013, 17:02
Farage and UKIP don't worry about whatever "they're obliged to say" in their attempts to get voted in at the next election. Not very far different from the current Conservative party.

Without a blink of any eye, they're both apparently ready to quit the EU at a moment's opportunity. And "throw the baby out with the bath-water". Good luck to you. (I'm a Brit in France).

Ask Farage why he (or the ruling Conservative Party) can't "already be doing more" to increase trade with the ex. colonies (Common-wealth etc.). and fast-growing mostly Asian and African nations TODAY - both the UKIP and Conservative EU-sceptics explain that whever trade is lost with the EU will "easily be replaced" by trade with mostly Common-wealth countries...?! So grow UK trade with these other countries before exiting the EU why not???!!! "Arseholes with tongues up each others' butts", best describes the lazy slime who easily spread such vitriol, hatred and anxiety so widely and unnecessarily.

At least others wore "brownshirts" openly.

ATNotts
17th May 2013, 17:10
Farage reminds me of Scargill - not in his politics obviously, but his attitude to questioning of his version of the truth. Chucking the Farage teddy out of its cot at the Edinburgh press conference was one thing, his attitude to the BBC Radio Scotland interview was another altogether.

This week's performance will return to haunt him come the 2015 election. It could be as "unfortunate" as Gordon Brown's "bigot" remarks.

Lon More
17th May 2013, 17:15
He apparently thought he was launching Ukip's campaign for the Aberdeen Donside by-election. Perhaps he would have got a better reception from the locals if he'd known enough about Scottish geography to at least turn up in the right city? I wouldn't bank on it.

I didn't hear any racist comments; I did hear someone say, "We welcome immigrants. We don't want you"

As for being shouted down by those who don't believe you. 99.9% of his supporters here could well be advised to accept that advice.

Milo I didn't think you were old enough to have been in the Waffen SS

Milo Minderbinder
17th May 2013, 17:22
I don't think it will haunt him - at least not in England. I believe most people will see it as reinforcing their preconceptions (whether held rightly or wrongly) that Scotland is a nation of whining whingers who sponge off the rest of the UK, needing constant handouts to stay afloat.
To the English yet again Farage will appear as someone stating unpleasant truths (or presumed truths.....) and it will simply add to his appeal.

Milo Minderbinder
17th May 2013, 17:28
"Milo I didn't think you were old enough to have been in the Waffen SS"

I don't think that showing the error of their ways to people who carried bricks bats golf clubs and eggs to greet visiting politicians can be in any way construed as membership of the Waffen SS.

perthsaint
17th May 2013, 17:37
If Farage can't hack an interview on Radio Shortbread then he's got no chance with any of the big-hitters.

It'll be compulsive viewing/listening.

Cacophonix
17th May 2013, 17:41
I tend to think that Farage has shown himself up for the cluckwit that he is.

UKIP are an assembled bunch of klein Englanders who will be found out rapidly if Britain is ever stupid enough to vote these no hopers anywhere near political office....

They are sans policy save for one and appeal to the basest and meanest of principles in humanity ...

If this is what England has sunk to then God help us all.

Caco

El Grifo
17th May 2013, 17:55
yes - a bunch led by a few extremists and brainwashed into creating a scene.


You are just making that up of course. Just you personal predjudice shining through.

Sir George Cayley
17th May 2013, 18:05
Politics of late have become deathly dull :sad:

So the likes of Farage & Johnson (lovely paints and tiles) bring some colour back into the hustings.

Of course UKIP will only ever be a thorn in the dull grey establishments side and Boris will never be PM. But the clear emotion spelled out in these few posts show that political passion can surface again.

I just wish David Sutch was still around.

SGC

perthsaint
17th May 2013, 19:03
Well, that's nonsense.

I knew from a well known microblogging site several hours beforehand that the fluffy fascists were having a presser there at 5.

mustpost
17th May 2013, 19:03
One for Lon and El Griffo - Sheena Wellington, friend of a friend, has complained about Fararge using 'her favourite Edinburgh pub' describing him as 'a cheeky ratbag', and the pub itself is under book of faces fire for previously allowing a meeting of the Scottish Defence League. They countered with this..

The Canons' Gait had no prior warning from, or arrangement with UKIP to hold an impromptu press conference in the bar. We were as surprised as everyone when things developed as quickly as they did.

That the staff managed to clear those involved quickly and professionaly is a great credit to them considering the stramash that followed.

"There was no request from UKIP to use the pub and they certainly weren't invited."
Sorry in cyberspace, perthsaint is referring to this post (which I re-posted)

perthsaint
17th May 2013, 19:06
not sure why my post appears before the one I was replying to...

(thanks mustpost)

Mr Chips
17th May 2013, 19:07
When asked if he condemned the demonstration against Mr Farage, the first minister said: "If there's been any law-breaking - and that's yet to be established - then obviously we condemn that, as we always do in Scotland, but you've got to get things into context.

Police said two men had been arrested following the protest.

Outside chance that there had been some law-breaking I would suggest....

A spokesman for the Radical Independence Campaign, who helped organise the demonstration in Edinburgh,

John Martin, president of the Edinburgh College Students' Association, which also took part in the protest, said: "We organised yesterday's protest against Farage out of a belief that UKIP's policies are fundamentally rotten.

Not exactly spontaneous then...I'm always doubtful of "organised protests"

That's just me though

El Grifo
17th May 2013, 19:07
"Erse for elbow" would one say Mustpost :ok:

dead_pan
17th May 2013, 19:14
I'm surprised no-one has suggested that the whole fracas could have been manufactured by UKIP to garner them with a bit of publicity. I mean, they had been out of the news for a good day or two prior to this. It would have been easy to do - tip-off the yobbos about the press briefing, let events run their course, et voila, wall-to-wall press coverage.

mustpost
17th May 2013, 19:15
Thanks Grifo ;)
For students of irony south of the border, it's worth pointing out that Sheena Wellington sang "A Man's A Man For 'a That" at the opening ceremony of the Scottish Parliament....

Davaar
17th May 2013, 19:42
Milo I didn't think you were old enough to have been in the Waffen SS



Lon. Just on a point of accuracy, were not the Waffen SS a tad later than the merry men who cleared the streets? I rather think the street-clearing political thinkers, the "rough justice men", were in the Brown Shirts before what's 'is name lost out in the Night of the Long Knives. The Waffen SS were more the creation of Himmler.

rab-k
17th May 2013, 20:09
Nigel Farage: 'Anti-English' protest shows fascist side of Scottish nationalism (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10064417/Nigel-Farage-Anti-English-protest-shows-fascist-side-of-Scottish-nationalism.html)

"Anti-English" protester speaks at 8:40 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s8y49)

Poor old Nige; Haste ye back...:E

Lon More
17th May 2013, 20:43
I and a few friends used to take great delight in catching the ringleading egg-throwers and treating them to rough justice.

I don't think that showing the error of their ways to people who carried bricks bats golf clubs and eggs to greet visiting politicians

Make your mind up, if you can. Eggs or Brickbats?

Sounds like a typical piece of right wing paranoia.

Low Flier
17th May 2013, 22:10
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02566/180513-MATT-web_2566173a.jpg

Airborne Aircrew
17th May 2013, 22:21
El G:

Any respect I had for Nigel Farage and his UKIP party have evaporated today.You know what I found in that? It's a very sad day in my life...

At the end of the report the reporter used the phrase "in this country" to refer to Scotland... Not so long ago the United Kingdom was the country.... Now the petty squabbling has destroyed my country....

I despise those who have manufactured that because it has been manufactured by the petty, tribal losers who use division to gain power rather than to be effective leaders to manage the whole...

bigfatsweatysock
17th May 2013, 22:53
Now the petty squabbling has destroyed my countryWould that be the same country you abandoned in 1988? If you cared that much why did you leave?

El Grifo
17th May 2013, 23:29
Airbourne, you clearly have no sense of history or fair play.

When I left Scotland, I was aked why.

I replied," I hate the weather and I hate the politics. I have no chance of changing the weather and less chance of changing the politics"

That has now changed thankfully.

The time is ripe !

Milo Minderbinder
17th May 2013, 23:57
What, you can change the weather?
You working on that HAARP project? Or can you just walk on water? Much easier......

AtomKraft
18th May 2013, 00:15
If Farage wanted to meet the Scots....

What the hell was he doing in Edinburgh?

Should have jumped on the train and come through to ....Glasgow.

Airborne Aircrew
18th May 2013, 00:51
BigFat:

Would that be the same country you abandoned in 1988? If you cared that much why did you leave? I left with an American wife who wanted to return home. I made a life here... Is that so difficult to understand? Take your attempt at a wind up and place it... You know where... :=

El Grifo:

Airbourne, you clearly have no sense of history or fair play.

When I left Scotland, I was aked why.

I replied," I hate the weather and I hate the politics. I have no chance of changing the weather and less chance of changing the politics"

That has now changed thankfully.

The time is ripe ! Have at it son... People like you and BigFat have destroyed Great Britain... You've ripped the very heart from it. You deserve everything you get... But, I notice, as I have been accused of abandonment, you too should get BigFat's contempt ...

But that won't happen though will it... You two are happy with the utter destruction of what once was the greatest country on earth... One wonders why the two of you are so happy to become, simply, mediocre at best... Most likely it is a reflection of yourselves...

PS: It's Airborne... NOT Airbourne... You make yourself look so uneducated, or worse.... :ugh:

B Fraser
18th May 2013, 07:29
Police said two men had been arrested following the protest.

It was reported last night on the BBC that one was Scottish and the other was English.

Perhaps Nigel Farage will be along shortly to condemn them both equally for their part in the protest that he claimed was a demonstration of hatred against the English.........or perhaps he won't. It was actually a demonstration against a useless ****. As for the radio interview, he would have a harder time with James Naughtie.

Anyway, if Farage had wanted to meet the Scots then any bar within half a mile of the London Stock Exchange on a Friday lunchtime would have had a greater chance of success.

Fareastdriver
18th May 2013, 08:57
It was actually a demonstration against a useless ****.

This useless **** was elected, and has been re-elected twice, as a MEP. That is something that most of the scribers here on JB could not hope to attain. He, unique among MEPs, is on a campaign to get British MEP's noses OUT of the European Parliamentary trough instead of deeper into it.

The opposite are the members of the Scottish Parliament. An incredibly expensive building with individual offices complete with a £4,000 built-in refrigerators. True to form, one of their first actions was to vote themselves a massive pay rise.

I shudder to think of the perks they will dream up if they get independence.

Lon More
18th May 2013, 09:09
This useless **** was elected, and has been re-elected twice, as a MEP. That is something that most of the scribers here on JB could not hope to attain. He, unique among MEPs, is on a campaign to get British MEP's noses OUT of the European Parliamentary trough instead of deeper into it.

That hasn't stopped him misappropriating reportedly 2 million in EU funds to bolster up his party.


Wee Eck must be pishing himself laughing this morning; Farage has probably, single handedly, guaranteed a yes vote in the Referendum

bigfatsweatysock
18th May 2013, 09:12
People like you and BigFat have destroyed Great Britain... You've ripped the very heart from it. Really? Justify that particular piece of nastiness with some evidence.

I wont hold my breath for it though.

hellsbrink
18th May 2013, 09:18
That hasn't stopped him misappropriating reportedly 2 million in EU funds to bolster up his party.

Again, as you were asked in the UKIP thread, prove that allegation is true and not libel.

PS

Lon, explain why it is ok for the SNP to use public funds to bolster their campaigns in local elections, but not ok for Farage to do something entirely legal with EU funds?

SNP caught using public funds to promote Council candidates (http://www.libdemvoice.org/snp-caught-using-public-funds-to-promote-council-candidates-28250.html)

Turbo-Prop
18th May 2013, 09:21
I left Scotland a few years ago, because of work.
If you consider UKIP is a party set to adjust British politics the SNP sets itself as a serious party stirring up xenophobic sentiments to secure itself.
SNP is a dreadful party. Their policies are so full of holes and yet they are popular because they play the anti-English card.

They get away with the most ridiculous ideas by claiming they are the only way to an independent Scotland.

The Scotland I know is heavily, and I mean heavily, dependent on public money.

...and there are many examples of politicians using 'Nationalism' to gain votes. They have never ended well.

Part of me, my morbid curiosity, wants to vote SNP to see how bad things can get. Like voting for Sarah Palin in the USA.

But Scotland is a fantastic country and the SNP are fools.

B Fraser
18th May 2013, 09:23
This useless **** was elected, and has been re-elected

And so has George Galloway. It seems that if you can spin enough of a scare story and present yourself as the only candidate that can save you from it then it's a walk in the park.

hellsbrink
18th May 2013, 09:28
And so has Alex Salmond. It seems that if you can spin enough of a scare story and present yourself as the only candidate that can save you from it then it's a walk in the park.


Fixed it for ya! :ok:

Krystal n chips
18th May 2013, 09:30
On the subject of money, here's a donor that clearly feels his values are represented in UKIP....

Ukip donor brands women 'hostile' for wearing trousers | Society | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/17/ukip-donor-women-hostile-trousers)

One can think of many ways to spend £10 k.......UKIP, strangely, not being one of them.

StressFree
18th May 2013, 09:31
Well folks, I'm a member of UKIP and proud of it.

Bring on our exit from the EU, quick as you like please :ok:

El Grifo
18th May 2013, 09:43
People like you and BigFat have destroyed Great Britain... You've ripped the very heart from it.

So Airborne BigF asked you and you made no attempt to, now I am asking. Could you yyour statement please.

For my part, If I had not got out, it may well have "ripped the very heart from me" :ok:

You have picked up some of the worst characteristics from your adopted country I see. You are happy to justify your departure from your dear motherland, but the rest of us who chose to do so are "ripping the heart out"

Reminds me of the mother watching her son march by in a parade. "Look they are all out of step except our Johnny" :D

El G.

Richard Taylor
18th May 2013, 09:49
#49 Turbo-Prop

I would suggest that if the Tories, Labour & Lib-dems weren't so useless, with complete lightweights in charge, then perhaps they could get somewhere in Scotland? Just a thought.

Whatever you think of Salmond, he had the charisma & gravitas that appealed to the Scottish people in the last Holyrood elections, in a system so designed that no one party was supposed to have an overall majority.

I'm not saying the SNP get everything right - they don't. But they are still streets ahead of the other political parties.

As for UKIP & Farage - I like his bombast (as in he gets up the nose of Herr Schulz!), but I say again - perhaps they would have got somewhere had Farage actually rocked up to the city where the by-election is actually being held?

bigfatsweatysock
18th May 2013, 09:54
hellsbrink,

using the LibDem website to justify an attack on the SNP? Thats pretty desperate even for you. response (http://www.northern-times.co.uk/News/Gibson-responds-to-Lib-Dem-accusations-24042012.htm)

mustpost
18th May 2013, 09:57
Some interesting reading here, particularly the closing 'political class' attitude pointers..
Nigel Farage's Scottish hounding was an antidote to fawning media treatment | Mike Small | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/17/nigel-farage-ukip-scotland-press)

Cacophonix
18th May 2013, 10:10
And so has Alex Salmond. It seems that if you can spin enough of a scarestory and present yourself as the only candidate that can save you from it then it's a walk in the park.

Spot on and in the absence of leadership from the middle the loons from Left and Right drown out the sound of the ship that is Britannia slowly going down the gurgler.

We do really live in desperate times...

Caco

Lon More
18th May 2013, 10:17
Again, as you were asked in the UKIP thread, prove that allegation is true and not libel.

again, no smoke without fire
Farage has not seen fit to take his original accusers to court, just sitting their doing his usual Home Simpson impression when the accusations were made.
The mods here have also not seen fit to remove my posts on the subject and by his ow2n admission, guilty as charged.
During a debate about Europe at the Foreign Press Association - which was discreetly taped by the hosts - Farage was asked by former Europe minister Denis MacShane what he had received in non-salary expenses and allowances since becoming an MEP in 1999.

"It is a vast sum," Farage said. "I don't know what the total amount is but - oh lor - it must be pushing £2 million." Taken aback, MacShane then joked: "Is it too late to become an MEP?"

Farage insisted that he had not "pocketed" the money but had used the "very large sum of European taxpayers' money" to help promote Ukip's message that the UK should get out of the EU.

When asked later by the Observer to justify how he could claim so much while running a campaign attacking Westminster MPs for their extravagance, Farage was unapologetic, saying that, while MEPs were "very expensive", he was entirely happy that the money had been used for the best of causes."


I won't hold my breathe waiting for an apology though.

El Grifo
18th May 2013, 10:34
Nail squarely on the head Caco !

Every man-jack of us knows that (great) britain is and has been for some time now "heading down the gurgler"

The nation has been lied to, cheated, ripped of by financial institutions, energy companies, petrol companies, all of whom seem to have hidden behind some sort of protection mechanism overseen by government.

The little guy gets taxed to the hilt by fair means and foul and the big guys are laughing all the way to the offshore bank.

The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting stuffed.

Nothing apparently can be done to change this cycle, irrespective of which shade of "goverment" appears to have it's hand on the tiller.

Against this background, a small and patriotic nation is placing its hopes for change, however futile, in a move for independance.

There is nothing on the horizon which promises anything else but a continuing downward spiral fo Britain.

The Scots and the Scottish can hardly be blamed for grasping at any possibilty of breaking the cycle.

I hope the opportunity comes their way. I doubt things could be any worse.

Turbo-Prop
18th May 2013, 10:46
Richard Taylor #55

...all that shows is that the Nationalism card is a good card to play.

The trouble is, were the SNP to gain independence, where do they go from there?

I really don't want to compare this with Nazi Germany, there are many differences of course but if you consider how the German people were conned by the National Socialists into believing that the problems they had were caused by others.....

I don't believe the Scots will try to annex Northumbria, I am not making a direct comparison.

Rather the means by which the German people were brought to believe is very comparable.

They had groups of youths turning up to harangue dissenters too.

Interesting times. The SNP is not the way to independence.

Milo Minderbinder
18th May 2013, 10:58
The website of Radical Independance Scotland (the organisers of the demo) has an interesting list of "supporters" at
Radical Independence | Another Scotland Is Possible (http://radicalindependence.org/#signatories)

A rag tag bunch of left wing socialists, commies, trade unionists, CND supporters, arab sympathisers and extremists. In other words, just as I expected: a retread of 1970's left wing extremism.

Lon More
18th May 2013, 11:02
I suppose if we want to see your photo Milo we'd have to look at the BNP siteor maybe just look at the wall down the local police station.

bigfatsweatysock
18th May 2013, 11:03
Maybe so, milo, but you have admitted to being a right wing bully boy who dispenses summary justice by giving people a kicking who disagree with your politics. :yuk:

El Grifo
18th May 2013, 11:18
Pretty salient extract from the Guardian article :-

Last night's protest is also a watershed for those Scottish unionist pundits – who try to cling to the idea that there is a uniform political culture north and south of the border. But media treatment remains an ongoing issue. As Scott Hames, editor of Unstated: Writers on Scottish Independence has pointed out, last night is already being reframed thus:

The political class last week: "Farage is a dangerous, odious berk. Legitimising Ukip's rhetoric is deeply worrying. The new acceptability of such views evokes [insert sinister 1930s reference]."
Farage visits Scotland, and is hounded.
The political class: "Farage isn't my cup of tea, but the man deserved a fair hearing. Intolerance of Ukip's rhetoric is deeply worrying. The unacceptability of such views evokes [insert sinister 1930s reference]."

What happened on Thursday on the streets of Edinburgh was a refreshing antidote to the fawning media treatment of Farage. But what now remains disturbing is the media's stubborn inability to see the Scottish independence movement having a jurisdiction beyond the SNP. That's going to change now. Now it's clearer than ever: another Scotland is possible.

El Grifo
18th May 2013, 11:23
left wing socialists, commies, trade unionists, CND supporters, arab sympathisers and extremists.

Funny that Milo. Exactly the same terms used against my by the cuzzins on the US politics hamserwheel and the like when the try and stifle discussion.

And here's me, just an ordinary self-employed bloke, wife and kids, running a business, pushing retirement. :ok:

Milo Minderbinder
18th May 2013, 11:32
I seem to think that it was the demonstrators who in this case were trying to stifle discussion?
Just like back in the 1970's when our antics were contrived to stop the left wing loonies from using threats and violence to likewise stop discussion.
It would seem to me that you chaps seem to believe its OK for lefties to shout down and threaten right wing politicians, but when someone tries to prevent that from happening, you shout "foul'. Typical double standards from the socialist inspired.

El Grifo
18th May 2013, 11:39
Coming from the guy who was intstrumental in getting the the Spitfire thread binned.
A move that pissed off a lot of good people :ugh:

Milo Minderbinder
18th May 2013, 11:47
That thread was binned because you'd turned it into an illogical obsessive personal persecution of one man.

Krystal n chips
18th May 2013, 11:53
" Just like back in the 1970's when our antics were contrived to stop the left wing loonies from using threats and violence to likewise stop discussion"


Ah, that would be the well established practice of "along with a few friends" dispensing "rough justice" towards those who may not have entirely shared your view of life then.

You may have noticed your ever so slight contradiction here Milo.

I don't suppose you would care to share with us, the locations of the demonstrations where yourself, and "a few friends" decided to act in such a public spirited manner.....vigilante thugs does sounnd rather crass now doesn't it...so I will refrain from using the term....in order that we can gain a better perspective of those, whom it would seem, needed this "rough justice".

AlpineSkier
18th May 2013, 11:57
@Richard Taylor

I would suggest that if the Tories, Labour & Lib-dems weren't so useless, with complete lightweights in charge, then perhaps they could get somewhere in Scotland? Just a thought.

That comment reminds me very much of a scene in a Carry On film ( Carry On Jack or similar maybe ? ). Kenneth Williams as a very young and naive ensign is about to enter an ale-house/brothel for the first time: someone ( probably Sid James ) tells him that the custom is to enter holding aloft a bag of gold sovereigns to "show good faith "

Same attitude now ?

Mr Chips
18th May 2013, 13:11
Not that i give a toss, but if you are going to pick on someone for "dealing with the egg throwers" you might want to remember that John "Not exactly Right Wing" Prescott did exactly that, in front of the press and wasn't prosecuted for it...

Just saying

airship
18th May 2013, 13:21
Except, dear Basil, the UK has been run by a Conservative - Liberal alliance since 2010, in case that had escaped your attention.

But you're quite right to draw attention to the UKIP's hate-filled, destructive and, IMHO, treasonous, behaviour most recently. Oh, did I misquote you...? Do you ever show your face at a late-opening grocers anywhere (presumably run-by the "wrong folks"), exchanging simple pleasantries and hiding your innermost thoughts...?!

At least then, if you'd have been forthright, they might at least have had a clear choice and might even have refused to serve you (if they were fully aware of what you represent). The UKIP are the same...

hellsbrink
18th May 2013, 14:50
Except, dear Basil, the UK has been run by a Conservative - Liberal alliance since 2010, in case that had escaped your attention.

And have all the immigrants that came in under the Labour free-for-all gone home because of said coalition? I think not, and since getting that uncontrolled immigration stopped is a mainstay of their policies then Basil's comment about how one of the main weapons that UKIP is the disastrous "social experiment" carried out by Labour is valid as it can give an insight as to how some would vote UKIP instead of Labour.

Get it now?

glad rag
18th May 2013, 16:57
The thing about the UKIP is the simple fact they are outwith the political system that has led the UK to where it is today.

You might think that is either a good or bad thing.

StressFree
18th May 2013, 17:38
Hellsbrink,

As usual sir, you tell it as it is, well said and spot on......:D

mustpost
18th May 2013, 20:30
Interesting times
Indeed, as this thread is proving. Given some of the opinion, invective and vitriol coming from south of the border directly or indirectly criticising Scotland and its inhabitants, coupled with the democratic possibility of those inhabitants voting for self-determination, just what fuels this obsession with remaining united?
Oh wait....

Fareastdriver
19th May 2013, 10:49
who has been wound up by a power grabbing fool

Don't knock Salmon like that; he's a professional politician; he's only doing his job.

airship
19th May 2013, 13:20
It's your country now Basil, do with it however you wish, use it and abuse it, that's your priviledge.

My mum's ashes will join in early June those of my dad's, in a small corner of a cheap plot in West Sussex. And that will end my 52 year long "close relationship" with the UK (apart from continuing to hold a UK passport for whatever that will be worth tomorrow).

So all you complete or semi-blind militants hankering for "something else", just go ahead and destroy what's left of the UK. See if I care anymore. At the worst, I should be able to apply for French citizenship (or perhaps another EU one) having resided in France for almost 22 years.

PS. Please do keep whatever NI entitlements I might have accrued in view of the contributions I ever made working in UK, "for yourselves". I think that whatever I ever "paid in" in UK back then was easily "paid out" to my parents over their last few years of life. And I'm pretty sure that any difference has been more than settled by my own contributions here in France, paid out to other ageing UK citizens etc. from French state coffers.

"In reply to a bunch of ignorant, if not simply ungrateful sods, who prefer to poison good relationships between various nations and peoples which required many decades to develop, negating it all for their own nefarious purposes".

Davaar
19th May 2013, 13:54
I have wondered ever since how a bunch of wandering Pakis* would be received in my country.

This is not quite an answer, but a parallel tale I heard on good authority.

In a Canadian province, at that time devout, the local RC bishop was travelling by car when Nature Called. Nearby was a small house. The bishop had the car stopped and sent his young chaplain to ask the good chatelaine if his boss might use "the facilities".

The chaplain returned. Yes! She would be honoured.

Off went the bishop, shortly to return, relieved. They resumed the trip.

The bishop was thoughtful, but eventually just had to share his experience.

The house, as many at that time, could boast but an "out-house", which the lady deemed unfit for the Great Man.

She had therefore in haste prepared the "best parlour" for his ease. The furniture was cleared back to leave an open space. On the open space was spread a large white towel, on which reposed a pot de chambre. At one side of the latter was a crucifix, and on each of two other sides was a candle in a candlestick. The fourth side was free.

Davaar
19th May 2013, 14:00
you don't expect people in an occupied country to think nicely of you.




Probably not, but Frau Davaar was a child in Hamburg at the time and speaks fondly of the BAOR, especially Jocks, who were she says kindly and generous to children such as she.

perthsaint
19th May 2013, 21:21
Basil,

You claim that we are "full" but neither define what you mean nor provide supporting evidence. Can you do so now, please? Be specific.

A cursory glance at the demographics of the UK shows that we have an ageing population, due primarily to low birth-rates. How do you propose to resolve this problem without immigration? Again, be specific.

perthsaint
19th May 2013, 21:35
There is a fantastic still photo of Faraj being interviewed on tv doing the rounds of social media just now.

If someone could locate and post much hilarity will ensue..

Low Flier
19th May 2013, 22:01
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1145859/thumbs/o-LAMENT-570.jpg

Utrinque Apparatus
19th May 2013, 22:20
Oh please Perthsaint, save us from your sanctimonious drivel. The social, health and welfare services throughout the UK, particularly in England, are being overwhelmed by mass immigration. Schools are struggling to provide education in the many languages required, as English does not seem to be a prerequisite to attend primary or secondary education in our many segregated ghettos.

As for your witty little still pic, where was all that left wing satire when Blair and Brown were ruining the country .

BenThere
20th May 2013, 00:14
Seems to me Mr. Farage is the most erudite intellect to appear on the UK political stage since Thatcher. I think he holds great promise.

hellsbrink
20th May 2013, 04:37
You claim that we are "full" but neither define what you mean nor provide supporting evidence. Can you do so now, please? Be specific.

UK population density per sq.km. :- 253.1

Now, given that much of the UK is "uninhabitable" due to it being moorland or rising steeply (think of how much of Scotland and Wales is mountainous, and how many people live in them mountains), we come to the realisation that the population density of the HABITABLE areas is much, much higher, to the point where England has a population density per sq.km which is higher than Japan (398/km², Japan 350/km²). Out of what is left of the "habitable" area, you have to have the infrastructure necessary to support the population, things like transportation, water, food and sewerage/garbage disposal. That means that as the population grows, it takes over that space leading to there now being around 1 acre of land per person to provide and absorb all the needs of the people.

That all means that the UK, and England in particular, is heading towards the population density of New Jersey, and you would hardly call that "empty".

StressFree
20th May 2013, 07:12
Hellsbrink,

Excellent post, well said :D:D:D:D

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 08:00
That all means that the UK, and England in particular, is heading towards the population density of New Jersey, and you would hardly call that "empty".

Seriously, what on earth are you talking about? Take any of the major road or rail arteries out of London and you pretty quickly reach open countryside. There's huge swathes of lightly populated greenery all over the country. Full my ar$e.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 08:04
Seems to me Mr. Farage is the most erudite intellect to appear on the UK political stage since Thatcher. I think he holds great promise.

Not sure if I detect a hint of sarcasm here.

Either way, did you hear that radio interview?

Lon More
20th May 2013, 08:05
Brilliant Low Flier/ Now all we need is a re-write of MacPherson's Rant, ".... on yonder gallows tree... "

He didn't look too happy when he returned to the bosom of his admirers.
http://pictures.4ever.eu/data/674xX/cartoons/[pictures.4ever.eu]%20homer%20simpson,%20the%20simpsons,%20loozers,%20hockey%20 player,%20monocle%20144154.jpg

Capetonian
20th May 2013, 08:28
The point about the UK being 'full' is valid. The population density is a red herring, and as others have said, even in the southeast there are huge areas of uninhabited green fields, mercifully. As an example, I can drive from Gatwick to Lewes, as I often do, with at least three quarters of my journey on country lanes running through very sparsely inhaibited areas. The same applies to Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, and other home counties. Anyone who's been up to Ivinghoe Beacon near Luton, and enjoyed the view from there, or Box Hill in Surrey, and many other places, will know this.

The problem is that the infrastructure is overladen and under-resourced, particularly in the main centres of population, so whilst the country as a whole is not 'full', there are pockets which most definitely are.

Then, we have the problem that there are many people who contribute the least and take the most out of the resources.

So whilst this might be simplistic, it's true:http://tinyurl.com/lzshyvc

hellsbrink
20th May 2013, 08:33
Seriously, what on earth are you talking about? Take any of the major road or rail arteries out of London and you pretty quickly reach open countryside. There's huge swathes of lightly populated greenery all over the country. Full my ar$e.

And what is most of that "greenery"? Oh yes, most of it grows food for the population.

So you are an advocate for concreting over the countryside, irrespective of the consequences of building on land that may well not be suitable for building on, irrespective of getting fresh water to that land, irrespective of the infrastructure necessary for building on that land, irrespective of the need for farming on said land, irrespective of the impact on England's "green and pleasant land", irrespective of the fact that people would not actually live in these sparsely populated areas due to a lack of employment?

So, come on. How do you suddenly build new cities in places with no real road network, no water or electricity supply, no gas supply, no sewerage, no drainage, no guarantee that the ground is actually suitable for building on, etc? Where does the money for all that come from, where is the benefit to the country? How does concreting over perfectly good farmland and turning the country into one where even more food imports are necessary become a benefit?

And how do you build on the more mountainous regions of the country?


Tell us all how it could be done, tell us all how you would not only provide the infrastructure, etc, as well as jobs in the area without detriment to the country, the countryside and the economy.

And tell us all how further uncontrolled immigration would benefit the country, for that is the issue which has actually triggered the need for more housing, amenities and services.

Lon More
20th May 2013, 08:34
Capetonian, then the population can be spread about a bit by building social housing on all the large estates owned by city traders and the like?

I see Farage is described as a "metal trader" He could do his bit by moving in with the other Pikeys.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 08:38
Then, we have the problem that there are many people who contribute the least and take the most out of the resources.

So, lets also chuck out our own home-grown layabout chavs, not to mention the elderly, those who've managed to con their way past ATOS and retain their disability allowance etc. And casually ignore the fact that large number of immigrants are paying taxes to help fund our bloated welfare system.

Lon More
20th May 2013, 08:42
Obviously a quota system would need to be introduced on immigration.
10 hard working Polish builders = 1 bigoted Englishman trying to return from abroad

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 09:00
So you are an advocate for concreting over the countryside

Just pointing out that your 'argument' re population density was rather silly. There's plenty of space to accommodate people w/o having to lay waste to the countryside, should we so desire.

irrespective of the impact on England's "green and pleasant land"

Ah yes, Jerusalem. I bet you sing that every time you wake up in the morning, twice at lunchtime, and once before bed.

irrespective of the fact that people would not actually live in these sparsely populated areas due to a lack of employment?

Indeed, who would consider living in such areas where the only work on offer are those poorly paid, back-breaking jobs that no right-minded Brit would ever consider?

hellsbrink
20th May 2013, 09:42
Good god, you have taken things to a new level.

Do you REALLY think these seasonal "back-breaking" jobs that no Brit wants could actually support the populations of these new towns you want to build on the ground that grows the stuff that provides those "back breaking" jobs?

There's plenty space without "laying waste to the countryside"? Really? So you don't need roads, electricity lines, sewerage, water supplies, rail links, etc? you can just build a town in the middle of nowhere with absolutely nothing to support it? Are people going to travel to their place of work many miles away by broomstick? Will food be supplied by air drop? You see, the very nature of building a town from scratch necessitates the destruction of the "countryside" in the area as said town will need a suitable level of infrastructure to support it's needs at that time as well as the needs for future expansion, and the quaint country lanes that Cape referred to are hardly suitable for neither the commuting of a couple of thousand people nor the need to have thumping big trucks trundling up and down them to bring in the supplies that would be needed for the supermarkets that these people would actually need.

After all, don't you think there would have been more construction like Cambourne if such a concept was viable (only 3 truly "new" towns have been built or construction commenced since the 1970's, with one other finally getting planning approval. Only one was on "greenfield" ground, the others are where there is already some form of infrastructure due to them being brownfield or ex-military sites. Think about why that is, and then think of why there is not more building on the countryside in the middle of nowhere).

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 09:59
It is also monstrous that we pay dole money to able bodied men and then import foreign labour.

So what's your answer? Conscription into the land army? Now there's a proper UKIP policy - Nige would love that one.

If Brits don't want the work, there's b*gger-all we can do about it save get someone else in to do it.

Andy_S
20th May 2013, 10:49
A cursory glance at the demographics of the UK shows that we have an ageing population, due primarily to low birth-rates.

Total b*****ks.

BBC News - Booming birth rate 'a strain on NHS midwifery services' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21120593)

Andy_S
20th May 2013, 10:53
If Brits don't want the work, there's b*gger-all we can do about it save get someone else in to do it.

We can't make Brits work. But if there's work available, and they decline it, then they shouldn't expect a penny in benefits. That might concentrate a few minds.

perthsaint
20th May 2013, 11:12
Yes, Andy, we need immigration to boost our low birth rate. Thanks for posting a confirmatory link.

You'll no doubt have noticed the reference to the ageing midwifery population. Why is it ageing? Because of low birth-rates.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 11:33
We can't make Brits work. But if there's work available, and they decline it, then they shouldn't expect a penny in benefits. That might concentrate a few minds.

Yep, but this is a different issue, one which our current administration is at least trying to do something about.

Seeing as UKIP seem intent are making immigrants here in the UK persona non grata, are they also going to insist that all UK emigres return home? After all, its only fair - why should British emigrants to the likes of Oz, Canada, South Africa etc, be treated any different to foreign nationals taking up residence here? Bl00dy emigrants, going over there and taking their citizens' jobs, paying their taxes to foreign governments, sponging off those countries welfare states when they're retired - its a national disgrace.

hellsbrink
20th May 2013, 11:47
Not quite, dead_pan, but ending the UNCONTROLLED immigration is the policy. How they achieve that has been made clear and will mean leaving the EU.

UKIP IMMIGRATION & ASYLUM POLICIES « UKIP Basingstoke (http://www.ukipbasingstoke.co.uk/ukip-policies/ukip-immigration-asylum-policies/)

They are not saying "No more immigrants", they are not saying they will kick out all other immigrants, they are, however, saying they will put in controls on immigration like many other countries, even in the EU where you will satisfy certain criteria before being given "right to stay" even if you are a citizen of an EU member state and are moving to another one.

Unless, of course, it's the UK where there are none of the same restrictions (provide documentation like birth certificates to prove who you are, provide some sort of evidence that you do not have a criminal record in your country of origin, provide proof of not being married if you are claiming you are not, provide proof of having a roof over your head, proof of looking for work, etc. The only real difference between someone like myself and someone moving to Belgium from, say, the Philippines is that I am not subject to a MANDATORY course on learning the language.).

El Grifo
20th May 2013, 12:03
Interesting stats from the NOS:-

People with no religion had the highest proportion of people who were economically active, Christians and Muslims the lowest. Jewish people had the highest level of employment and Muslim people the highest level of unemployment

Anyone have stats for birthrate by ethnicity ?

hellsbrink
20th May 2013, 12:13
Got this from 2001, El G

BBC News | UK | Ethnic birth rate climbs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1556901.stm)

This from last year

One in four British babies born to foreign mothers - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9634127/One-in-four-British-babies-born-to-foreign-mothers.html)

and if you go to

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm%3A77-276693

and

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm%3A77-231415

you can get the data.

El Grifo
20th May 2013, 12:16
Yeah but when did England become England :ok:

When did England become known as England (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_England_become_known_as_England)

tony draper
20th May 2013, 12:32
Out we would be able to sell arms to both sides when the new Franco German war commences.
Perhaps next time twould be wiser to lean more toward Germany.
:E

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 12:36
UKIP IMMIGRATION & ASYLUM POLICIES « UKIP Basingstoke

I can't believe you posted that link w/o any sense of irony.

Basingstoke??? That's Wernham Hogg territory, isn't it?

hellsbrink
20th May 2013, 12:37
You are the one who made the claim about UKIP policy on immigration, I'm just pointing out what they really say.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 12:38
Perhaps next time twould be wiser to lean more toward Germany.

I think we already are. References to jack-boots being polished, Lebensraum, ethnic cleansing etc etc

AlpineSkier
20th May 2013, 12:43
a higher birth rate means the nation's growing elderly population will get greater support from working-age people in 30 years’ time.

Note that it's carefully formulated as "working-age people" and not working-people. The higher birth-rate is predominantly coming from Muslims and , according to an earlier link on this thread, that is the least-likely group to be in employment.

pvmw
20th May 2013, 12:51
References to jack-boots being polished, Lebensraum, ethnic cleansing............
Strange. I don't recall any of the above being mentioned anywhere in this thread - unless by the typical leftie trying to distort the argument, by the introduction of hyperbole and meaningless drivel in a desperate attempt to subvert an argument already lost.

Not untypical tho'. Ever the tactics of the Left. Smear, slander and attempt to ridicule anyone who has the temerity to actually hold an opinion contrary to that of the hive mind.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 13:11
Strange. I don't recall any of the above being mentioned anywhere in this thread

Yup, both this and the other thread. Not sure why there are now two running, as everyone seems to have stopped talking about the Faraj dummy spit.

Ever the tactics of the Left. Smear, slander and attempt to ridicule anyone who has the temerity to actually hold an opinion contrary to that of the hive mind.

Hmm, are you Stuckgear in disguise? There was a rumour that he had multiple personailities on PPRuNe (or was it identities?).

It is a bit worrying the number of alleged professional pilots can't differentiate between left and right.

airship
20th May 2013, 13:49
Basil wrote: You and your family sound like the sort of people whom I would welcome - in appropriate numbers.

It's true that neither my father, nor his father were actually born in the UK or Ireland. You have to stretch your mind a little perhaps to appreciate that at these times, we possessed "an empire" which needed managing etc. But their blood was more or less pure (according to your own principles), they were "all-white" and Britons to boot. I can assure you that my own "all-white" and "Britannic" lineage is probably very easily as long as your own, until my dad took my mum as wife...:}

Imagine well, therefore, that I'm not at all assuaged or otherwise reassured when I read that You and your family sound like the sort of people whom I would welcome - in appropriate numbers..

Are you 100% sure that it is not you yourself that has been previously "welcomed" by us, or others like us, my own family...?! I'm unsure that you can stretch your mind around enough to accommodate such dreadful thoughts, but do give it a try? :sad:

But like I said before, It's your country now Basil, do with it however you wish, use it and abuse it, that's your priviledge.

pvmw
20th May 2013, 14:21
Hmm, are you Stuckgear in disguise?
oh dear, is that the best you can come up with?

I know its hard, but try to grasp the concept that there are plenty of people out there who fundamentally disagree with you.

People with minds of their own, who don't believe that it is necessary to spout the party line on all occasions. Who believe that an unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy consisting of thousands of over-paid civil "servants", that is so currupt that its accounts haven't actually been ratified in living memory, is the greatest threat to peace, wealth and democracy in Europe in the last 70 years.

Of course. The concepts of Wealth and Democracy are words that would be anathema to one of your political beliefs anyway.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 14:32
As I recently asked of your alter-ego, can you not conceive that there may be people the right of centre of the political spectrum who oppose UKIP and believe that us leaving the EU would be detrimental to the UK's economic prospects and world standing? In your world, anyone who opposes you is automatically designated a lefty. That's simply laughable.

Nice work deleting and re-posting BTW. It does seem a bit gaffe when you have to edit your 'witty' riposte - kind of detracts from its impact, don't you think?

pvmw
20th May 2013, 14:44
:
Strange. I don't recall any of the above being mentioned anywhere in this thread

Yup, both this and the other thread. Not sure why there are now two running, as everyone seems to have stopped talking about the Faraj dummy spit.

Ah, another little piece of mis-information in an attempt to dissemble. Telling little porkies are we? check the facts. Until you used the word, Lebensraum was last mentioned in the USA Hamsterwheel in January. "Jack-boots"? No, no reference there either. How about "ethnic cleansing"? No, nothing in either thread - tho' it is mentioned in the "Euphemisms" thread last week.

So, please explain. Why are you so insecure in your beliefs that you have to bolster them by lying in an attempt to belittle the arguments of others?

pvmw
20th May 2013, 14:48
Nice work deleting and re-posting BTW. It does seem a bit gaffe when you have to edit your 'witty' riposte - kind of detracts from its impact, don't you think?
Thanks for the compliment. Nice to see that you are capable of reasoned argument. Hm! "Gaffe" - a clumsy social error. Yeah, right on. Keep the insults coming. easier than trying to argue the substance.

mustpost
20th May 2013, 15:14
Just a point for further discussion....


https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/249104_585103638189294_1019181785_n.jpg


Denis Healey: Westminster 'worried stiff' about losing North Sea oil | Politics | News | STV (http://news.stv.tv/politics/225958-denis-healey-westminster-worried-stiff-about-losing-north-sea-oil/)

Fareastdriver
20th May 2013, 15:17
What does Dennis Healey know about economics. IIRC he used a box of matches.

Andy_S
20th May 2013, 15:18
Dennis Healy is an idiot.

He was and still is......

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 16:07
"Jack-boots"? No, no reference there either.

Really? Check out post #575. I guess the hyphen caught you out.

The Lebensraum comment was an obtuse reference to people erroneously stating on the other thread that Britain was full to capacity. Not strictly the precise definition but I'm sure you get the drift.

Shame I missed the comments on the Waffen SS, Fascism, and Nazis on p.1 of this thread, not to mention doling out summary justice to left wing dissenters. Would you have been happy if I had used these instead?

Krystal n chips
20th May 2013, 17:33
"I know its hard, but try to grasp the concept that there are plenty of people out there who fundamentally disagree with you.

People with minds of their own, who don't believe that it is necessary to spout the party line on all occasions. Who believe that an unelected, unaccountable bureaucracy consisting of thousands of over-paid civil "servants", that is so currupt that its accounts haven't actually been ratified in living memory, is the greatest threat to peace, wealth and democracy in Europe in the last 70 years.

Of course. The concepts of Wealth and Democracy are words that would be anathema to one of your political beliefs anyway."

You know, there's a remarkable similarity between the fervent zeal both yourself and UA post when doing a credible impression of a Party Political broadcast on behalf of UKIP.

Which leads to the question about the Divine Leader.

Having displayed an Achilles heel so to speak, albeit not a mortal political wound ( for the moment at least, hopefully it will develop into political gangrene ) and given his propensity for supporting any candidate who stands for election, one wonders, if, he will be visiting Aberdeen in the not to distanf future.

True, any attendance is highly unlikely to win any support for the candidate, but the fact remains, he was proven to be vulnerable and on this basis alone, the poitical ego will have been damaged.

Hence, can we expect a reprise should he venture away from the leafy shires of the totally unbigoted...must have a frog in my throat...cough !.... hinterland of the Home Counties.

Strangely enough, on all my visits to a variety of locations in Scotland..:ok:. only once over the many years have I even encountered any animosity and that was one, brief, unprovoked comment in a folk club on the banks of Loch Ness. Had the pillock in question actually noticed, I was singing along quite happily to several songs which were not entirely complimentary to the English.

I wonder why this should be?

Utrinque Apparatus
20th May 2013, 17:53
Vulnerable ? You wish. You're deflecting again, as Farage has rocked Westminster to the core. He really has you on the ropes too, as you cannot see the impact on the British electorate UKIP has already had and will continue to have. Your accusations of bigotry and smears just prove what we're saying on here, that the left has browbeaten free thought for too many years and marginalised anyone who disagrees with its tainted and discredited dogma. Even that clown Mandelson is putting clear blue water between him and the New Labour disaster, opportunistic hypocrite that he is

The Tories are in utter confusion, Milliband is still looking for policies, and Clegg is consigned to the dustbin of history (Or the European Commission, where all the left leaning failures from all the European countries go to milk the gravy train al la the hypocritical immensely wealthy Kinnocks)

I almost can't wait for the inevitable implosion of the Euro, although I genuinely hope the architects of the whole federal project see the folly of their ways in time to avoid the social tragedies that will unfold in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and Eire for starters

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 18:05
Well, I wonder how UKIP will fare next year when they unveil their candidates for the European elections? There's talk that Neil Hamilton will be making an unlikely come-back on a UKIP ticket. There's nothing like a top-class political heavyweight to boost your party's prospects.

BenThere
20th May 2013, 18:23
The astute politician learns to perceive which way the wind is blowing.

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 18:33
Gee, thanks for that Yoda.

The only blowing Mr Hamilton does is from his backside. Here's pic for your delectation - not sure if he and his missus are modelling the new UKIP uniform (only joking pvmw :ok:):

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00884/money-graphics-2007_884065a.jpg

G&T ice n slice
20th May 2013, 20:12
Really? Check out post #575. I guess the hyphen caught you out.

darn difficult to check post 575 when this has only got to 136

but good try

and... you are exhibiting the usual left-wing socialist commie pinko liberal careful selection of a few words out of context, because I know exactly to which post you refer...

It REALLY is time we had a good strong government that would implement some special measure to combat socialism

dead_pan
20th May 2013, 21:15
I know exactly to which post you refer

I would have hoped so, given who posted it.

you are exhibiting the usual left-wing socialist commie pinko liberal

Here we go again. Is this a kind of default setting for a UKIP supporter? I suppose when you're on one side of the spectrum, everything else is on the opposite hand.

It REALLY is time we had a good strong government that would implement some special measure to combat socialism

That's the spirit. Yes, you-know-who had the right idea and all that.

stuckgear
20th May 2013, 21:24
10 hard working Polish builders = 1 bigoted Englishman trying to return from abroad

oh you planning on returning to the UK ?? we can make it 20 polish builders in your case.

Krystal n chips
21st May 2013, 05:54
" It REALLY is time we had a good strong government that would implement some special measure to combat socialism"

Such wishful thinking....however....I am sure that once UKIP are in power, then, with the soon to be ammended no doubt, clause in their manifesto for:

Clearances. Highland: Version 2. To be implemented as soon as is practical

there will be plenty of space in Scotland for the incarceraion of anybody with left wing views....gets cold enough to match Siberia at times as well.

Please refrain from having an orgasm at this tantalising fantasy however...:p

dead_pan
21st May 2013, 08:49
you cannot see the impact on the British electorate UKIP has already had and will continue to have.

The thing is, UKIP are to all intents and purposes a one-man show. Can anyone actually name 5 of their senior party members or MEPs , other than Nige?

On a related topic, I did find this when I Giggled 'UKIP MEPs':

Nigel Farage Hints At Purge Of Ukip MEPs As He Targets 2014 Victory (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/01/nigel-farage-ukpi-mep-purge_n_2788981.html)

dead_pan
21st May 2013, 09:57
Yes, its not the most flattering portrayal of the party. Still, I'm sure they'll get their act together in due course.

stuckgear
21st May 2013, 10:05
Yes, its not the most flattering portrayal of the party. Still, I'm sure they'll get their act together in due course

Unlike a party that actually has *no* policies, like errrm Labour, yet the swivel eyed leftie loons still support a party with no policies.

though Labour will *never* get their act together, what with their track record yet the lunatic lefties fervently support a political party with no, ermm policies.

dead_pan
21st May 2013, 10:10
Indeed. Still they served a purpose last night when they rescued the Tories from another potential embarrassment. Dave's days must surely be numbered - Boris better get himself a parliamentary seat PDQ otherwise he'll miss his big chance.

hellsbrink
21st May 2013, 16:50
Really? Check out post #575. I guess the hyphen caught you out.

When you figure out which thread you're posting in, let us know.



As usual, you're confusing Britain with England
Despite their growing support in England, UKIP has failed to make a mark on Scottish politics. The party lost its deposit in every seat it contested in in Scotland at the 2010 UK general election and in the 2011 Scottish Parliament election. Recent opinion polls carried out in Scotland have not shown any significant increase in UKIP support.


Actually, it could be said that both of you are right, to an extent. UKIP has had an impact on the British electorate, even though they've not realistically tried in Scotland until now, as they have gotten people across the whole country talking about them and at least trying to change the UK relationship with the EU. But, as you say, at this moment they are more active in England and Wales than anywhere else even though they are looking to pull the whole of the UK out of the EU and not just part of the country. That means that they are merely not represented in Scotland, not that they are some sort of "English National Party" only, but the fact that there are those north of the border even discussing UKIP, whether in a good or bad way, means that there is an impact, UKIP's profile has risen.

The same can be said for parties like the SNP. Involved in Scotland only but have had an impact across the whole of the UK due to the little event being held in 2014. People across the whole of the UK, not only in Scotland, have been discussing whether the SNP should get it's wish of Independence, and what it would mean for everyone else, therefore there has been an impact across the whole UK.

You have to define "impact". If you mean "votes only", then you are right. If we mean people across the UK actually talking about them, then UA is right.

hellsbrink
21st May 2013, 16:52
Can anyone actually name 5 of their senior party members or MEPs , other than Nige?

Can you name 5 UK MEPs, from any party without using Giggle to search?

Bet ya most here couldn't, especially the one who represents the area they are from......

airship
21st May 2013, 18:22
hellsbrink wrote: I have that right, don't I?
If the "right" you allude to above "is not enshined" in one of the EU's nefarious and insincere rules / laws, which you and others here criticise sevrely very regularly... "UHMMM, YES, YOU DO HAVE IT" today. Perhaps if you expressed it in UK after the UK quits the EU, you would not have the right (as not a UK resident) anymore...?! But for sure, you would still have the right, expressing an opinion as a UK citizen (resident in Belgium), even after the UK quits the EU. I'd like to think so anyway.

Gobbling up too much UKIP, Farage or Belgian chocolates can be detrimental to one's health mate... ;)

hellsbrink
21st May 2013, 18:23
No, airship, it was "right" as in "correct". Not any other definition you are thinking of.

airship
21st May 2013, 18:28
No, airship, it was "right" as in "correct". Not any other definition you are thinking of.

That doesn't make any sense at all: "right" , "correct" etc., mere adjectives...

Whatever, tomorrow's another day... :zzz:

Fareastdriver
21st May 2013, 18:31
airship has got to remember that Lon More, punching on the other side, resides in Holland.

Milo Minderbinder
21st May 2013, 18:31
Not the Selgovae - they were more around the Solway (hence the name)
Maybe the Otadini / Votadini who appear to have been Romanized

El Grifo
21st May 2013, 19:28
Well its just about south of the Antonine wall, so wasn't part of Caledonia, so it must be a stolen part of England

England was a pretty new invention was it not.
Some foreigners from the teutonic countries invaded and helped themselves.

It has been said that the reason the English hate the Germans so much is because the Germans remind them so much of themselves :ok:

Milo Minderbinder
21st May 2013, 19:33
And the Jutes (or the Angles) kicked the heck out of the Otadini after the Romans left, and pretty much took their land over

El Grifo
21st May 2013, 19:45
Precisely ! So who stole whose land ?

Milo Minderbinder
21st May 2013, 20:14
But it was part of the Romanized territory, which the Angles etc annexed. Not the territory of the damn Picts who were north of the Antonine wall, or the Scottii who were still in Ireland. The current Scots are a bunch of Dalriadan Irish led by renegade Norsemen who pinched the country. Send them all back to Ulster!

dead_pan
21st May 2013, 20:18
Can you name 5 UK MEPs, from any party without using Giggle to search?

Bet ya most here couldn't, especially the one who represents the area they are from......

No, but I could name 5 senior party names from all of the major political parties, hence my reason for including it. Re the MEPs, I was wondering if anyone could remember the name of that baldy UKIP chap who did a passable impression of Nige a few months back.

You're right in that I have absolutely no idea who my MEP is. I reckon we're all going to pay a lot closer attention to these elections than we ever have in the past.

dead_pan
21st May 2013, 20:23
When you figure out which thread you're posting in, let us know.

When you figure out how to read posts properly, let us know. Clue: difference between 'here' and 'there'. I guess the 't' caught you out.

El Grifo
21st May 2013, 21:07
And the Jutes (or the Angles) kicked the heck out of the Otadini after the Romans left, and pretty much took their land over

That´s better Milo !!

Stolen from England indeed. Ho Ho !

Milo Minderbinder
21st May 2013, 21:16
the Jutes and Anglesare the English....so it is ours, not the property of the Scottii

G&T ice n slice
21st May 2013, 21:32
I just spent half the evening working out a scathing, fact-filled, unrefutable reply to a question asked in one of these threads and now I can;t find the question.

and now we are talking Star-Trek?

I'm lost...

El Grifo
21st May 2013, 21:35
No Probs G+T.

Milo has gone into mega-haver mode. :ok:

Cacophonix
21st May 2013, 23:22
Farage is an irrelevancy and so is his party. They may have one moment in the sun but they add nothing to sum of the solution that this country really needs.

I mean intelligence, not the old wasted anger for a past that is long gone.

Caco

Airborne Aircrew
22nd May 2013, 01:05
I mean intelligence, not the old wasted anger for a past that is long gone

Ahh.... You mean just trying to get by until you are forced out by the unwashed scum and the immigrants who hate you... Good luck... Don't call us, we'll call you.. :ok:

Cacophonix
22nd May 2013, 01:09
Airborne

For a bloke who quit this country you still seem to care a lot. Good for you.

I am not going anywhere. A man has to stand where he is some day.

Caco

hellsbrink
22nd May 2013, 04:21
When you figure out how to read posts properly, let us know. Clue: difference between 'here' and 'there'. I guess the 't' caught you out.

Nope, as pmvw had been talking about THIS thread and not the other. Nothing had specified that the "jackboots" was in an obviously tongue-in-cheek post in the other thread.

And it's pretty sad when you have to refer to other threads before insulting posters to try and back up your argument........

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 08:00
Caco,

Then STAND, don't be a carpet and walked upon by others. The whole history of the British is as an independent island race, made up from many sources, but successful and strong. And now we're run by folk in Brussels who only this week banned re-fillable oilve oil bottles from EU restaurants. Honestly you couldn't make it up.............:confused: How can Farage be 'irrelevent' when his party make such gains in elections? It's a strange process called democracy, like him or loathe him, people are VOTING for him, get used to it as it's not going away.

I'm proud to be a UKIP member, I want OUT of the EU as quick as possible, I'm a patriot and want my country back.

Edited for spelling due to being in rant mode......

Airborne Aircrew
22nd May 2013, 09:57
Caco:

For a bloke who quit this country you still seem to care a lot. Good for you.

It may not be apparent from my scribbling here but it is important to note that, while I have been here in the USA since 1988, I have resisted the temptation to avail myself of citizenship. Despite the fact Great Britain has taken such a horrendous and, IMO, needless nosedive over the past three or four decades I believe there is still some Great in Britain... :ok:

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 10:51
Nope, as pmvw had been talking about THIS thread and not the other. Nothing had specified that the "jackboots" was in an obviously tongue-in-cheek post in the other thread.

Well Mr pmvw made the connection, his words were "no reference there either".

I know they sound similar but they mean different things. For example, here is your ar5e, there is your elbow. Can you spot the difference?

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 11:02
I'm proud to be a UKIP member, I want OUT of the EU as quick as possible, I'm a patriot and want my country back.

Where are you speaking from exactly? Oh, I see...

Have a butchers at this article in the Telegraph. They've picked up on quite a few of the doubts I raised on the other thread:

Nigel Farage's biggest problem is Ukip doesn't do details - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10071380/Nigel-Farages-biggest-problem-is-Ukip-doesnt-do-details.html)

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 11:16
Dead Pan,

Reasonable attempt at humour.......

Why are you scared of independence? What do you want, a continuation of current political failures whether its Labour in power or the Tories?

We need to re-think what we're doing, and if Farage generates that debate then he must be congratulated for it. We simply cannot go on as we are, part of an over-bearing expensive and bloated organisation. It doesn't mean we can't trade with Europe as we are entitled to join EFTA, we're not in Schenken either anyway so how do we benefit from the EU? :confused:

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 11:36
Its all very well congratulating Farrage for freshening up politics, quite another actually voting for him. I did make a quip on this thread (or was it the other? I'm sure HB will tell me) about The Office - Farrage is exactly like the David Brent of politics i.e. perfectly affable company, I'm sure, however there's no way you'd actually want him in charge of anything. Their manifesto, such as it is, is incredibly narrow and their entire reason for existence will disappear the moment we ever have a referendum.

As for the EU, have a read of the other thread (or was it this?) why I reckon it would be potentially disastrous for us to leave.

Airborne Aircrew
22nd May 2013, 11:45
Dead_pan:

Farrage is exactly like the David Brent of politics i.e. perfectly affable company, I'm sure, however there's no way you'd actually want him in charge of anything.Hmmm.... Yet it's acceptable to have put Blair, Brown and Cameron/Clegg in charge???? :ugh:

I can already see one advantage of Farrage, he's "perfectly affable company" unlike the four above where any normal person would spend the time trying desperately not to reach out and grab them by their scrawny bloody necks... :*

In retrospect, your argument falls flat on it's face eh? ;)

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 11:52
Why not go the whole hog and vote for the one with the biggest t1ts? I mean, if its solely down to being a popularity contest, who cares what they say/do?

Airborne Aircrew
22nd May 2013, 11:55
Dead_pan:

I mean, if its solely down to being a popularity contest, who cares what they say/do?

You're joking, right??? Let's list the good Blair, Brown and Cameron/Clegg have said/done for the country to date:-

1. <crickets>
2. <more crickets>
3. Errr....

There, job done.

You're having a bad day I take it... ;)

pvmw
22nd May 2013, 11:59
I take it you've been away some time - still catching up on the papers from 1983, are we? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we didn't win the 1986 World Cup. You'll never guess who we lost to.
Well done. I reckon that is the most intelligent and cogent argument you come up with so far in support of.........................

...........er, precisely what is the point you are trying to make?

Thats curious. I've managed to reply in advance of the original posting.

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 11:59
Well, my day was going fine until I ventured on JB.

I take it you've been away some time - still catching up on the papers from 1983, are we? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we didn't win the 1986 World Cup. You'll never guess who we lost to.

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 13:12
Dead Pan,

Accept it, get used to it, the tide is turning, the EU is a noble plan but in reality something of a failure. Farage is gaining support because people agree with his ideas, already he's got the Tories on the back foot, promising an earlier referendum. It's lovely to see democracy really at work.....


Can you tell me please when exactly the British people were allowed to have a say on being in the EU?

Ted Heath asked us about whether to join the EEC, but now that body has morphed into the European Union with all the baggage that comes with it.

No-one has ever asked me, and when they do I'm voting to get out 100%. Don't be scared, be a patriot, who would you rather be like, the Norwegians outside the EU or the French within it?

Bring it on, lets get out NOW.

Davaar
22nd May 2013, 13:16
Have a butchers at this article in the Telegraph

I am not English, so I am not affiliated with the UKIP. If I were, I probably would be.

But that is really beside the point, which is foreseeability and a program for the unknown.

That all takes me to the fairy-tale that brought the good fairies to the princess's cradle, "Sleeping Beauty", as I recall from childhood, or maybe it was "Beauty and the Beast". They all brought gifts, saving the fairy who was narked by being uninvited. She brought a curse. The story goes on from there.

If we take any child born anywhere in Europe or North America a lifetime ago, and postulate the gathering of fairies with gifts round his cradle, which of them could possibly have foreseen with any accuracy how the world, and especially his world, would evolve over his life?

With what value could any have prepared a program for WW2, the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe, the developments in Poland, Austria, Germany (East and West), Britain (Scottish devolution now in place for years), the ascendancy and then slide of US domination, the War in Korea, China, Japan, and on and on. Would any have foreseen that I would write this from Canada?

The most one can say is that in very general terms most people, and by that I do mean in nation states however much there is a pretence that Tush! Tush! they no longer matter, do rather like to be ruled by Their Own.

So fiddle-faddle to the newspaper about unknown details. Who can tell today where we shall all be three years from now, and how relevant will be any details planned?

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 13:20
pmvw - I think you may have slipped into a parallel dimension there - be careful, those things can play with your mind.

My point was Mr AA seems to be a little out-of-touch. Plenty of stuff have happened here since 1988 (not '83 - missed that post - my bad), some of it good, some of it less so. Shall I tell him Maggie is dead? I worry that he might not take it so well.

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 13:25
Accept it, get used to it, the tide is turning, the EU is a noble plan but in reality something of a failure. Farage is gaining support because people agree with his ideas, already he's got the Tories on the back foot, promising an earlier referendum. It's lovely to see democracy really at work.....The only thing Farage is going to deliver is a Tory defeat and God knows how many years of a Labour administration. Accept that.

who would you rather be like, the Norwegians

Given the choice, the French, no question. At least the French know how to have fun. I've always found the Norwegians a little, uhm, boring (no offence), a bit like the Swiss, who'll be our other new best mates (jeez, Nige will commit Hari Kari at the first summit - it'll be like a parish council meeting).

El Grifo
22nd May 2013, 13:38
Despite the fact Great Britain has taken such a horrendous and, IMO, needless nosedive over the past three or four decades I believe there is still some Great in Britain...

I understood the prefix "Great" had fallen or was pushed out of use some time ago Airborne.

You've been away too long mate. The country's screwed :{

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 14:15
Dead Pan,

You're now starting to lose the plot.

So in order to stifle a massively important debate we should just keep going with the same old Tory/Labour alternating and failing governments????? And ignore an increasing urgency for change? how much more of the EU do you need to see? Whats next, a forced change to driving on the right, abandoning the mile for the kilometre. We're British for christs sake, 100 years ago we ran a quarter of the World, now we can't even decide how we sell bananas as it's decided for us in Brussels.

So no old chap, I don't accept that, change is necessary and folks like you are running scared from it. Grow a pair and man up. We CANNOT continue as we are, its ruining a once great nation.

The French? Honestly, really?

I'll settle for being best mates with the Swiss and Norweigans, they share my indomitable spirit for independence.

Good job you weren't around in 1940, you'd have laid out the red carpet for Adolf...........:(

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 14:36
Tell me, can you see no potential pitfalls from us leaving the EU, none at all? You want to leave regardless of the potential cost? What if the business community comes out firmly in support of us staying in, stating that leaving will do irreparable harm to the UK's prospects? Would you have second thoughts then?

And what about renegotiating our position? Do you think there is absolutely no prospect we could secure ourself a better deal, along with the other non-Eurozone members?

And where would it leave the UK on the world stage? I read somewhere that someone was saying that China, Brazil and India aren't in any trading blocks and are doing just fine. Well, they rather ignored the fact that these countries are rather more populous and younger than us, not to mention quite a bit poorer. And they haven't got the legacy issues with creaking infrastructure, welfare system etc - i.e. they have pretty much a blank canvas on which to build.

Also, whats with the rush? We can take our time on this, properly weigh up the pros and cons. Problem is, once we're leave, thats it, we ain't never coming back (in more than one sense, I fear).

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 14:40
Good job you weren't around in 1940, you'd have laid out the red carpet for Adolf

Riiight, thats a bit of a leap.

Anyway, G&T would have beaten me to it, him and his guard of honour. Mind you, he may not have been a fan - Adolf was probably too wishy-washy and liberal for his liking.

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 15:04
Dead Pan,

Of course there are potential problems and pitfalls, the good thing that we are now forcing the nation and our leaders to closely examine the issue and have an honest debate.

If for nothing else then Farage should be thanked for forcing this matter firmly onto the political agenda.

If we can re-negotiate terms then so be it, if not we can leave but at least we're now all talking about it...........

I agree with you that this is a huge national decision and must be carefully taken for there will be no going back.

Its good to have a robust excahnge of views, many thanks for your time today, I welcome all reasoned debate and appreciate your opinions.

Apologies for my 'Adolf' comment - rather puerile on reflection.

G&T ice n slice
22nd May 2013, 15:16
Anyway, G&T would have beaten me to it, him and his guard of honour. Mind you, he may not have been a fan - Adolf was probably too wishy-washy and liberal for his liking.

And Geghis Khan was, IMHO, a left-wing pinko liberal

Curious Pax
22nd May 2013, 15:27
I find it a little curious that the European debate is going on so ferociously at this moment in time. The UK economy (along with many others) is in the toilet, though hopefully (depending on who you believe) there may be signs of improvement.

Leaving (or threatening to leave) the EU with that backdrop seems somewhat foolhardy given that at best it is a leap into the unknown. If it did happen, then hopefully the posters confident that we would slip gracefully into the EFTA group, and continue to trade as if nothing had changed would be correct, but with the best will in the world they don't know that.

What if they are even a little wrong on that score? What if multinationals decide that the uncertainty is too much to bear and start shifting production elsewhere. You have the prospect of the rest of the world economy recovering strongly while the UK remains in the doldrums.

Is it a chance worth taking for the sake of bent bananas and refillable olive oil pots?

stuckgear
22nd May 2013, 15:35
well CP, you're being a tad disingenuous there. you know as well as i do,and everyone else that it's not about bent bananas a refillable olive oil pots.

its about political and economic controls; while you may claim that Euroland is an economic utopia and the UK is in the festering tank, the realities are that the Eurozone countries are screwed and the UK is not doing all that bad.

so rather than spout bollocks, at least try and have one toe in the real world.

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 15:43
stuckgear,

Outstanding post sir, brilliant. More please :D:D:D

Curious Pax
22nd May 2013, 15:44
I knew I shouldn't try a little irony in one of these threads! :rolleyes:

A little presumptuous putting words in my mouth there SG, and then heaping abuse at me for those words I didn't say - nice!

In no way did I claim that Europe was an economic Utopia, but merely suggested it may be better the devil we know. Of course I bow to your superior crystal ball - it will be interesting to look back at this thread in 10 years time and see who was nearer to being right.

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 16:32
Curious pax

Outstanding posts sir, brilliant. More please :D:D:D

hellsbrink
22nd May 2013, 16:41
I read somewhere that someone was saying that China, Brazil and India aren't in any trading blocks and are doing just fine.

Just for your information,

Brazil is a member of MERCOSUR, and an associate member of ANDEAN

India is a member of SAARC

Slightly down the scale of "trading bloc" and covering more about cooperation between states in the "bloc" you have India and Brazil in IBSA, Brazil in UNASUR, Brazil is also one of those in the ongoing negotiations for the creation of the FTAA, and then, of course, we have APEC which China is a member of.

There are other areas of cooperation, but these are the main ones.

StressFree
22nd May 2013, 16:50
Dead Pan,

Weak, very weak, imitation is the greatest form of flattery so I thank you, and acknowledge your position.

No more needs to be said.

1 - 0.

:ok:

Krystal n chips
22nd May 2013, 17:03
" Whats next, a forced change to driving on the right, abandoning the mile for the kilometre. We're British for christs sake, 100 years ago we ran a quarter of the World, now we can't even decide how we sell bananas as it's decided for us in Brussels"

Ah, now this explains a great deal as to your declaration of being a patriot and also an avid supporter of UKIP.

Forgive me for raising a few salient points here.

We no longer have an Empire and indeed, celebrating Empire Day, as I am sure you do, does rather put you in the eccentric category.

Secondly, and I understand how difficult this can be for somebody addicted to Imperial measures given the complexity of multiples of ten, which do you think is actually the simpler to use?.

Have you thought of dropping Nige a line suggesting the return of the groat, farthing and 10 shilling note for example, or maybe a spot of child farming...always good for the nostalgia brigade and even more so if the emphasis is placed on benefit scroungers children..sure fire vote winner there old boy !...as additions to the manifesto at all ?.

Still, next time the Divine Leader doth venture forth to Scotland, as indeed I am sure he will, despite showing us his true colours recently, then after what I am sure will be another rousing reception from the ungrateful vassalls who inhabit this heathen habitat.. well heathen to Nige that is, some of us make no secret of our enjoyment of Scotland and the people, maybe you will offer us an explanation as to why he will no doubt be greeted in the same manner.

He exposed weakness in himself and do you really believe that, with such flaw, he could ever have the credibility to be part of a serious and sustainable fourth political party.

Actually, you probably do.

airship
22nd May 2013, 17:12
Curious Pax and dead_pan

Very good posts there most recently, sirs, (especially dead_pan's link to the Daily Telegraph article, which presumably the usual suspects never bothered to read through). More please. Alas, you (we're) all attempting to fruitlessly debate against "Al-Qaeda like - UKIP jihadists", whose only wishes are that the UKIP will somehow get elected into government and that there will someday be a "UKIP Heaven on Earth", presumably complete with 72 virgins or whatever equivalent... :ok:

dead_pan
22nd May 2013, 17:49
It does intrigue me what weird prism some people use to view the UK, particularly those who aren't actually living in the country. When I go out everyday I see a normal, functioning society, people going about their business etc. We're not on our knees, about to buckle under the weight of an unsustainable population. The country has some problems, as do every other, but these are by no means insurmountable. I realise some hark back to the good old days when real men supped pints of real-ale in fug-filled pubs, labrador or jack russell at heel, and have misty-eyed recollections of a land of winding country lanes, thatched cottages and rickets. The fact is we have moved on and become a modern, outward-looking and libertarian society. I proud to be a Brit however I'm deeply wary of UKIP as I feel they could lead us deep into uncharted & potentially dangerous waters, not only economically but socially.

hellsbrink
22nd May 2013, 18:47
The fact is we have moved on and become a modern, outward-looking and libertarian society.

And it could be argued that things have moved backwards when you see the assorted reports in the last couple of weeks regarding various people being gunned down and, of course, the events in Woolwich, that such "libertarian" concepts, whilst not actually being "libertarian" as "liberties" have been curtailed over the last couple of decades, have spectacularly backfired.

Now, I ain't saying that parties like the BNP are right and anyone whose skin isn't the right colour should be kicked out. Far from it, especially as how do you kick out 2nd or 3rd generation "immigrants" who are 100% "British". As I have said on more than one occasion, immigration is not a "bad" thing but it should be controlled instead of what happened under Labour where it was just a free-for-all (which still continues to this day, but nobody has the balls to tackle the issue). Add in the assorted tales of the ridiculous which ooze out of the EU, and the small matter that the UK still pays in more than it receives whilst being told what to do by people who have never been elected to be part of the UK Government and people start thinking about what is going on. That has led to the situation where the public PERCEIVE a problem and it is that perception which leads to parties like UKIP getting a rise in support as they see the 3 main parties as nothing more than a bunch of chancers who have no idea what reality is busy making sure their snouts are deepest in the trough.

So as people see their own "rights" being trampled on whilst others get made "more equal than others", where people are pandered to because police and politicians look to be scared of doing or saying something for fear of being called an "-ist" or "-phobic" by another screeching minority, as they see themselves working harder and longer for less whilst others, of all race and colour, sit on their backsides and take from the State, as they see the same reports as everyone else (including and especially the reports regarding Woolwich now), they think "what is the point when each side of the centre divide is as weak and ineffective as the other".

So they see another option, one where someone is speaking the language they want to hear. For they have had enough, enough of the tales of an underfunded and overstretched military, enough of "glory" projects which are costing millions whilst they are having to pay more for everything to "do their bit" to cut the obscene debt the country has, enough of the pandering to minorities which has led to the perception that they are "more equal" than the majority, enough of the "open door" policies where someone can travel half way around the world via various countries and claim "asylum", enough of being told what to do by people who were not and never would be elected into a UK Parliament.

That's the perception that people have, across the entire spectrum, from working class oiks to upper class twits. The country may well be more tolerant, more libertarian, more outward-looking. But when the people have the perception that their tolerance is being abused by those who are doing so, then the people will bite back, and in this case they are turning to an alternative party as they do not hear one of the main parties come out with any concrete plans to actually fix the problems the people perceive as needing fixed.

stuckgear
22nd May 2013, 20:55
Leaving (or threatening to leave) the EU with that backdrop seems somewhat foolhardy given that at best it is a leap into the unknown. If it did happen, then hopefully the posters confident that we would slip gracefully into the EFTA group, and continue to trade as if nothing had changed would be correct, but with the best will in the world they don't know that.


Meanwhile, Icelands economy and fiscal security has recovered quicker than the PFIIGS countries, but of course, they are tied by the economic contraints of the single currency..

meanwhile, back at the icelandic ranch..


The leader of the center-right Progressive Party was chosen as Iceland's new prime minister Wednesday and promptly announced a halt to talks with the European Union about joining the 27-nation bloc.


Nei! Iceland says no to the EU as new government shelves talks with Brussels | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329134/Nei-Iceland-says-EU-new-government-shelves-talks-Brussels.html#ixzz2U3bDMmbf)

Davaar
22nd May 2013, 23:16
winding country lanes, thatched cottages and rickets

But before that there was:


Before the Roman came to Rye or out to Severn strode,
The rolling English drunkard made the rolling English road.
A reeling road, a rolling road, that rambles round the shire,
And after him the parson ran, the sexton and the squire;
A merry road, a mazy road, and such as we did tread
The night we went to Birmingham by way of Beachy Head.

I knew no harm of Bonaparte and plenty of the Squire,
And for to fight the Frenchman I did not much desire;
But I did bash their baggonets because they came arrayed
To straighten out the crooked road an English drunkard made,
Where you and I went down the lane with ale-mugs in our hands,
The night we went to Glastonbury by way of Goodwin Sands.

His sins they were forgiven him; or why do flowers run
Behind him; and the hedges all strengthening in the sun?
The wild thing went from left to right and knew not which was which,
But the wild rose was above him when they found him in the ditch.
God pardon us, nor harden us; we did not see so clear
The night we went to Bannockburn by way of Brighton Pier.

My friends, we will not go again or ape an ancient rage,
Or stretch the folly of our youth to be the shame of age,
But walk with clearer eyes and ears this path that wandereth,
And see undrugged in evening light the decent inn of death;
For there is good news yet to hear and fine things to be seen,
Before we go to Paradise by way of Kensal Green.

G,K. Chesterton.


BenThere
22nd May 2013, 23:31
:ok::DProfound post, hellsbrink.

hellsbrink
23rd May 2013, 04:16
It's been said before Ben (and Basil), yet has been ignored. And it will be again, for there are those who do not wish to listen and will not do so. They believe that, somehow, they know everything and know best and will do and say anything to prevent any discussion.

That has been seen in the other thread. We've had everything from scare stories about tariffs and restrictions being placed on all UK goods and services IF the UK left the EU whilst ignoring the actual treaties for being a member of the EU, we've had scare stories of manufacturers upping sticks and moving elsewhere. We've had one, in a round about way, say that the electorate cannot be trusted and are too stupid to make a decision like this and only politicians have the knowledge and expertise to do so, we've had all sorts of name calling and childish retort when points are made which cannot answer. We've had a claim about "One and a half" policies, yet the slamming of far more policies than that. Hell, we're even stepping towards the line of social breakdown in the UK now, as if the country could be in any mess of a mess than it is now. And exactly the same applies as soon as you get the politicians involved, it's scaremongering and childish insults alongside not one piece of decent argument as to why they are right. Nanny knows best, that's what comes oozing out of the arguments against UKIP, as if those politicians, etc, actually do know what they talk about.

It's that sort of attitude that is the zinger, for the people only have their perceptions strengthened. They see the current crop of MP's as nothing but chancers, people who have no interest in what they, the people, want. They see the nest-feathering of the expenses scandal, they regularly see MPs being caught doing things that would put an "ordinary" person in jail yet being let off with it. They see nothing but posturing, not action. With the last lot that were in Government they saw sleaze, they saw lies over the economy, lies over the number of people coming into the country, they saw all sorts of criminals and undesirables using a badly written law to stay in the country because it was their "Human Right", they saw a flood of people migrate from Poland despite the promises it would not happen, they saw more and more control of their country being passed over to a bunch of wannabe emperors who have no links to their country, they saw a foreign court overrule the laws of their own country. Now they see nothing but the same with the current lot, and are sick of being lied to, they are sick of being preached to, sick of the snouts-in-the-trough mentality of politicians.

You tell me where they are going to turn, for they want CHANGE and none of the major parties will give them that. And every time the Camerloons and Miliprats of the world turn round and try to denigrate Farage and UKIP, same as you see the nonsense that has been spouted on this forum, , the more his support will grow, for the other perception is "If they're starting to panic this much, Farage must be doing something right".............

Solid Rust Twotter
23rd May 2013, 06:03
...China, Brazil and India aren't in any trading blocks ...


BRICS. Along with SA.

Capetonian
23rd May 2013, 06:11
I don't think BRICS is a trading bloc - correct me if I'm wrong - I think it's just a term grouping those 'emerging economies'.

Solid Rust Twotter
23rd May 2013, 07:44
Well, they've certainly got something going with China, judging by the amount of immigrants arriving.

dead_pan
23rd May 2013, 08:16
You tell me where they are going to turn, for they want CHANGE

I think you may have lost Ben there - and you were doing so well.

dead_pan
23rd May 2013, 08:18
BRICS

It always baffles me how Russia makes the grade to warrant being aggregated with the other countries in this acronym. As Max Hastings once said, their non-defence industry couldn't even make a toaster you'd want to buy.

dead_pan
23rd May 2013, 08:21
We've had a claim about "One and a half" policies, yet the slamming of far more policies than that.

That was 1 1/2 policies of note. As for the rest, well have a read of that Telegraph article I cited yesterday.

hellsbrink
23rd May 2013, 16:37
I think you may have lost Ben there - and you were doing so well.

No, no, he's still there, he's not been lost.

After all, it was "CHANGE", not "Hope and Change"...... :p

hellsbrink
23rd May 2013, 16:46
That was 1 1/2 policies of note. As for the rest, well have a read of that Telegraph article I cited yesterday.

Yet you were able to name, in the other thread, hmmm, let's see, Immigration, Flat Rate Tax, lifting the smoking ban, pulling out of the EU, abolishing employers' NI contributions and 40 % hike in defence spending as policies that would be harmful to the UK.

So how is that 1 1/2 policies of note when you have raised them as policies you think will be harmful to the country?



But you did say one thing earlier that you were right about, and that is why are there now two threads. We've drifted so far off the original subject that I reckon this one should be either closed or merged with the other one.




PS. Sorry for the long wait for a reply. Been a long day at work and it took an age to wade through the dribbling on the Woolwich thread.

stuckgear
23rd May 2013, 16:54
1 1/2 policies is still more than the beloved party of the left have.

hellsbrink
23rd May 2013, 17:29
The strange thing with that is, simply, do you realise how much they have been given in grants from the taxpayer for developing policies?

Not one penny was spent on consultants, nothing on opinion polls, every single bit of it was spent on "salaries", meetings and the associated drinkies. £458,695 in 2011-2012 alone. £422,554.62 of that was salaries (how do salaries work out to something as exact as 62p?). The rest was spent on "meetings". Surprisingly, they get their "costs" to equal EXACTLY the maximum grant they were allowed for "Policy Development".

Doesn't anyone smell a rat there?


Don't believe me? Lookee here (http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/150821/PDG-Expenditure-Summary-by-party.pdf)

stuckgear
23rd May 2013, 17:57
The strange thing with that is, simply, do you realise how much they have been given in grants from the taxpayer for developing policies?


Oh indeed! But then one has to consider, HB, Labour's propensity to piss tax payers money away with chuff all to show for it...

Of course that doesn't stop the rabid left with their rhetoric, either side of the border .

And while CMD is shackled to both the corpse of the lib dems by one set of leg irons and indecision by the other, UKIP makes gains..

go figure !

hellsbrink
23rd May 2013, 18:06
Well, we better stop there because we're drifting even further off-topic.

It's time this thread died a death, why duplicate things as we have a thread for UK Politics and one for UKIP.

El Grifo
23rd May 2013, 18:22
Don't look at me Hellsbrink :ok:

hellsbrink
23rd May 2013, 18:27
I was gonna say something about how I wouldn't look at you because I prefer not to feel my eyes melting, then realised you meant the Woolwich thread.

A lot of dribble has been drooled there, as expected, on both sides.

El Grifo
23rd May 2013, 18:44
Got it wrong there buddy !

In fact I really do not understand what you are on about.

I started this thread but I am not going to be the one who stops it.

Simple !

I was gonna say something about how I wouldn't look at you because I prefer not to feel my eyes melting

Glad you are in touch with your feminine side though :ok:

stuckgear
23rd May 2013, 19:31
jeeze get a room you two..

:p

El Grifo
23rd May 2013, 22:18
two singles or a lovely double :E

hellsbrink
24th May 2013, 04:06
Don't be silly,


We'll head off to the beach and charge a dollar each to watch

G&T ice n slice
24th May 2013, 20:54
So a quick summary of where we stand

(1) Foreigners start at Calais
(2) So would they all please go back there
(3) Some of their beers are quite good
(4) Some of their younger ladies are rather nice
(5) Their food is greasy and they eat horse; unlike our traditional fish'n'chps or burgers.
(6) It's all the fault of the French

Krystal n chips
25th May 2013, 06:23
" So a quick summary of where we stand

(1) Foreigners start at Calais
(2) So would they all please go back there
(3) Some of their beers are quite good
(4) Some of their younger ladies are rather nice
(5) Their food is greasy and they eat horse; unlike our traditional fish'n'chps or burgers.
(6) It's all the fault of the French

How far did you career with the FCO progress, exactly ? ;):E

G&T ice n slice
25th May 2013, 07:18
Well, the interview was proceeding in what seemed to me a very positive atmosphere, then they seemed to get a bit agitated when I presented my plan for implementing the Treaty of Troyes and the follow-up Treaty of Amiens.

In short the plan involved the evacuation of the areas detailed in the treaties between 1st October with completion by 10th October, the handing over of all installations intact, said installations to include all farms and associated livestock, all dwelling places etc; British military occupation of the area to protect our interests; etc etc etc - all pretty standard stuff.

I don't know quite what I did to upset them all.

I didn't even get a chance to show the plans I'd developed for other areas where British nationals were a suppressed majority.

dead_pan
25th May 2013, 08:12
Sounds to me you were doing just fine. Are you sure you wore the right tie? Those FCO chaps are terribly fussy about those sort of things.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

hellsbrink
25th May 2013, 10:44
(5) Their food is greasy and they eat horse; unlike our traditional fish'n'chps or burgers.

Given the relatively recent events involving the manufacture of certain foodstuffs, I would reconsider that bit.

"KNOWINGLY eat horse (and it's damn tasty)" is maybe more appropriate.

stuckgear
25th May 2013, 11:01
when we can't even get samaurai sauce for our frites in the UK, one has to ask.. what is the point of the EU !

hellsbrink
25th May 2013, 11:15
Now that is a disgrace.

Especially as we have "British" delicacies such as PG Tips, HP sauce and Branston Pickle, Bisto and Oxo openly on sale in supermarkets over here. No wonder the Euro economy is going down the tubes when we can't even sell a simple sauce to a chip loving country like the UK.

El Grifo
25th May 2013, 11:37
What like the famous Dutch sauce, HP :ok:

sitigeltfel
25th May 2013, 12:01
when we can't even get samaurai sauce for our frites in the UK, one has to ask

Maybe because you aren't spelling it correctly ;)

Samurai sauce UK (http://uk.belgianshop.com/acatalog/Devos_Lemmens.html)

hellsbrink
25th May 2013, 12:01
Hence the "quotes" around "British".

You could say that Branston is now Japanese since it's owned by a Jap company, but to everyone it's still classed as "British". Same goes for HP, just because it's now made in Holland doesn't mean people don't still class it as "British".....


PS.

It's all well and good pointing to a website where you can get Samurai, but can you buy it in Tesco?

dead_pan
25th May 2013, 13:11
Just seen this:

City firms switching from Tories to UKIP, says Nigel Farage - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10079115/City-firms-switching-from-Tories-to-UKIP-says-Nigel-Farage.html)

Still no big name non-financials in there.

G&T ice n slice
25th May 2013, 13:48
"Any Answers" on Radio 4 just finished. Unfortunately I missed most of it, but it sounded to me like the presenter, the usual female leftie BBC hand-wringing-appologist type, was having a real hard time of it.

It bought to mind the old barrister's quote "never ask a question to which you don;t already know the answer".

Honestly, by the end I was feeling that, compared to the callers, I am just a weak wishy-washy liberal.

I suspect UKIP are going to wipe the board at the next General Election.

hellsbrink
25th May 2013, 14:19
Still no big name non-financials in there.

The clue to the reason for that might be in the title..

http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/nanmaisla.gif

Lon More
30th May 2013, 11:46
Paddy Power (http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/scottish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1241936) presently giving 200-1on the UKIP candidate winning in Aberdeen.
Another lost deposit?

Davaar
30th May 2013, 14:41
(1) Foreigners start at Calais

Traditionally the subject was not exactly "Foreigners", but a word now forbidden. It was true, though.

Mind you, I did think it was Dover, but no matter.

MagnusP
30th May 2013, 14:48
Mind you, I did think it was Dover, but no matter.

Actually Berwick-upon-Tweed, I think you'll find. :E

G&T ice n slice
30th May 2013, 15:52
I keep goggle-mapping for Berwick and it keeps pointing me to someplace at the very top northeast corner of England.

There's obviously something wrong. I can't find anything along the English south coast or the French channel coast.

Is it maybe somewhere in Belgium?

I'll keep looking.

'ERE! HANG ON ! - OI ! YOU !

dang where's he gone

stuckgear
30th May 2013, 18:47
Actually Berwick-upon-Tweed, I think you'll find. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

and that works for both northern and southern clans.

:E:E

G-CPTN
30th May 2013, 18:55
I thought it was north or south of Watford (Gap)?

stuckgear
30th May 2013, 19:05
Nooo! between Watford Gap and Berwick upon Tweed is the DMZ !

:E:E

tony draper
30th May 2013, 19:55
Berwick was not a good place to live in the olden days,when we took it we hanged all the adult males for being Scotsmen,when the Scots took it back a generation later they hanged all the males for being Englishmen,Berwick changed hands about thirteen times if I remember correctly.
:rolleyes:

Davaar
31st May 2013, 01:48
Berwick changed hands about thirteen times if I remember correctly.


It all ended on Friday 13th, I expect. Mind you, I could never quite understand why Edward l was so wound up -- actually I hadn't realised they had "winding up" in the 13th century, or was it 14th? -- when the Scots shouted "Long Shanks!" at him.

Could see it if they -- I mean "we" -- had hollered "Short-*rs*!"

P.S. Question for young draper. Many years ago the Davaars spent a month across the country from you, but on the West, at the hamlet of Gretna Green.

Gretna Green is in Scotland, about 9 miles North of the similar hamlet of Longtown, which is in England.

There is nothing in between, except countryside, save that at some point the traveller passes from one country to the other.

I think that point is marked by a sign or marker that we may call a "boundary", as in (Going purely by memory here, you understand!):

You are now leaving Civilisation; Welcome to England.
Since 1707 that has been the only separation marker between Scotland and England. No border post; no Grenzpolizei; no Check-Point Charlie; no machine-guns; no swing-up gates.

Strange thing, though: In Gretna Green the locals speak with a pretty strong Scottish accent, and in Longtown the locals speak with a pretty strong English accent. Not a trace of multi-culti.

tony draper
31st May 2013, 06:50
If the fat Salmon creature has his way that will all change,and the next thing they will be demanding is we abolish slavery down here.
:rolleyes:

Lon More
31st May 2013, 07:47
That'll be this heading North Davaar.
http://www.iccile.co.uk/23887130_7045581759.jpg

I remember an old BiCal pilot's call as he approached DCS Southbound, "Bomb doors open"

Davaar
31st May 2013, 09:38
Oh ...... Sometimes one rather wishes one had kept one's mouth .... Truth stranger than ..... See youse later, then.

tony draper
31st May 2013, 10:32
We Northumbrians reckon the Border should be much further North anyway,where it were when we owned the place, around the Firth of Forth.:rolleyes:

MagnusP
31st May 2013, 11:05
Not at all, Drapes; further south, so we can have B-u-T back. After all, they still play footie in the Scottish leagues!

Lon More
31st May 2013, 11:18
and Charlie ventured as far south as Derby before deciding the game was a bogey
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/64/15/641584_c8551282.jpg

hellsbrink
31st May 2013, 11:37
Not at all, Drapes; further south, so we can have B-u-T back.

You sure about that? There's a lot of crap between the border and Burton upon Trent.... :p

MagnusP
31st May 2013, 11:43
Ah, but if it was THAT B-u-T, we'd get all the good beer!

tony draper
31st May 2013, 12:24
Being a half caste one is hoping to draw me pension in Newcastle then nip up over the border and draw another one up there.:rolleyes:

Davaar
31st May 2013, 13:25
Just to reflect for a moment, there is a little unfinished business still to be done just to the East of the Oder-Neisse line. Not right now, maybe, but Der Tag kommt.

G&T ice n slice
31st May 2013, 15:26
Der Tag kommt

just the ONE front next time please....

Lon More
31st May 2013, 16:27
Wealth of the Wealthiest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGdRM3C_wjc&feature=youtu.be)

Davaar
31st May 2013, 16:32
just the ONE front next time please....



Now there's an idea, G&T. I can see you're a thinker. No doubt about that!

Lon More
31st May 2013, 16:42
In Farage's case a National one?

Davaar
31st May 2013, 16:42
draw me pension in Newcastle then nip up over the border and draw another one up there

Well, I understand "WHAT" you have in mind. but for "HOW" you should come over here, FSL, for expertise consultancy.

You may think your scheme is novel, but we do it all the time, especially in the Senate, both sides and some think, perhaps mistakenly, in the Province too. We even have a name for it: "Double-dipping" or more prosaically "Financial planning".

The real specialists go for "Triple-dipping", but that is only at the post-graduate or PhD level.

tony draper
31st May 2013, 17:44
They will probably call me The Really Old Pretender.:rolleyes: