So Now the Pay Review....

[Pixy]

Well after the bitter disappointment regarding the profit share we wait to see what the pay review brings.

This potentially has a number of aspects that could improve and lift the real income some small amount to where it used to be. There could be increases from or in the following areas:

• Basic Salary Scale goes up
• Step Advance
• Flying Pay Increase
• Productivity Pay Increase
• Callout Pay Increase
• Accommodation Allowance Increase
• Education Allowance Increase
• Telephone Allowance Increase
• Training Allowance Increase (Training Etc)
• Training Callout allowance increase
• Transport Allowance Increase (Training)

Am I missing anything? From the sounds of things those in the training fold should probably be hoping they do not get a decrease as there seems to be too many of them!

Clearly if there is no change to the list above then effectively a decrease in Real Wages will then occur due to the effects of inflation. Real Wages being wages adjusted for inflation.

The British economist John Maynard Keynes accurately described inflation as the means by which governments confiscate wealth. If salaries do not keep pace with inflation then an individual must then necessarily reduce consumption.

While inflation in the UAE has been reasonably static at 1.3% per year for the past 2 years since the salary scales were reviewed in May 2011, it is expected to climb towards 2% this year. This means that a minimum of a 3.4% increase on all the various remunerations listed above will ensure that by May 2014 we are maintaining the same real wage received in May 2011.
This increase needs to be on all aspects except the Step Increase. A step advance is often portrayed as an increase but in fact simply delays the inflationary effect until later. Don’t be fooled into thinking that a step advance (as we got last year) is a wage increase, because the individual steps on the scale remain the same. I.e. anyone joining on step 1 towards the end of this year would get the same as someone joining on step 1 in June 2011 which in fact represents a 3.4% lower wage at joining.

Despite the smoke and mirrors behind Scale and Step increases over the years Real Wages have declined steeply and that’s even before taking into effect the increases in work demanded for those wages.

It’s unlikely any respite will be given on time required from the company to earn the wages. We all know that productivity threshold will not reduce, nor are we likely to have certain duty hours, presently unremunerated, put into the credit hours classification. If anything I suspect more work will be required as this is the less obvious way of reducing real wages.

So we wait. Personally I would rather have a reasonable increase of around 3-4% on all of the above than any profit share. It makes my life more predictable, easier to budget and avoids me having to rely on any profit share to make up the losses suffered through inflation which may be taken care of in one year but not the next.

I ask for little more than to simply earn in real wages what I earned the year before. A step advance would be well received too. That would indicate the company appreciates my loyalty and experience. In return I would give them any and every courtesy to help out, save costs, and go the extra mile to ensure the continuing success and huge profits.

[SMT Member]

Keep Dreaming.

You'll be lucky to get 2% on your base and nothing more. What's more likely, actually, is that they'll do some further downward adjustments. Don't like it? There's the door, lest you forget your status in Knoteetingham.

[Wizofoz]

The problem, Pixy, is that keeping real wages at at least the same level as before is not a management goal.

Their measure of the required renumeration is attracting and retaining sufficient staff.

This has driven previous improvenments in renumeration when staff have been hard to come , and ALSO driven cuts in our pay (such as the PP threshold) when they were confident they were not going to lose people.

HOPEFULLY they see that there IS some writting on the wall (as an example, a large number of American pilots leaving as their Majors start hiring again would put a big dent in our numbers), but the situation right now is record low attrition, with no shortage of very desirable applicants.

Short term I'm not thinking we'll get any substantial improvement.

Still, I thought we'd get a prophit share, so hopefully i'll keep up my average and be wrong about this too:ouch:

[fatbus]

US accounts for how many pilots at EK? Everyone I know have no plans go to back to US

[MosEisley]

Fatbus, I'm from the US, and half the guys I know will go back as soon as a major calls. Any that were on the fence just got shoved off.

[777-200LR]

MosEisley, I have to sort of disagree. A lot of the US guys here at EK that I know, are done with the US; at least the aviation side of it.

[Wizofoz]

I've seen both attitudes.

The large influx of US pilots was 2-4 years ago, so a lot have or are coming up to command (at least on the 777), so leaving that to go on the end of a long seniority list, still with the spectre of furlough over your head, is a big call.

But Wives, Family and just being Home is hard to resist. At least some are bound to go.

[Alconguin Crusader]

As an American you would be a fool not to at least look at the opportunity. All of the majors contracts are leaps and bounds better than EK and then when you examine the lifestyle with a closer look you will see that most pilots only work 12-13 days a month and from about 6am to 11pm. Hell even on reserve you are guaranteed 13 days off. I am sure the Airbus captains will kill to have that many days off with the hours flying listed above.
However saying all that most of the US pilots at EK would have a hard time getting hired by a major. A lot of these pilots come from Mesa and other crap regionals and couldn't get hired before. There is a reason why they are at those crap airlines.

[Rather Be Skiing]

...
However saying all that most of the US pilots at EK would have a hard time getting hired by a major. A lot of these pilots come from Mesa and other crap regionals and couldn't get hired before. There is a reason why they are at those crap airlines.

Have you always been such an arrogant and condescending p***k?

[YYZ]

Wow Alconguin Crusader,

This is the second thread you're referring to your colleagues in this manner, I often give the benefit of doubt, but you genuinely come across as a total dick?

[White Knight]

Of course chaps; maybe the reason Alconguin is here himself is because HE is crap and couldn't make the, what do you American chaps call them?, ah yes - The Majors:ugh::ugh:

Most of the Yanks I know have no intention of heading back to the US:cool:

[Rim-job]

It's 4:45pm on May 12th and still no pay review letter... :D

They must be wondering how to sugar coat this email.

Three words: "Smoke and Mirrors"

[jumbo1]

They are probably working on creating a position for Algonquin Crusader - Perfect mangement material. :ok:
Boy, what fun he must be to share a flight deck with. Must be very humbling to be in his hallowed company, us being from such inferior aviation stock. :ugh::ugh:

[Fear_of_heights]

alconguin US pilots came to middle east because Majors didn't hire any pilots since 2001 not because of the Qualifications..... Are you one of the famous pilots that crossed the line and got s....tlisted in all the US airlines and can't get hired back home?:cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Desert Camel]

• Basic Salary Scale goes up
• Step Advance
• Flying Pay Increase
• Productivity Pay Increase
• Callout Pay Increase
• Accommodation Allowance Increase
• Education Allowance Increase
• Telephone Allowance Increase
• Training Allowance Increase (Training Etc)
• Training Callout allowance increase
• Transport Allowance Increase (Training)


I hope there will be one of the first two (or both).... Not very optimistic about the rest.:\

[helen-damnation]

AS told the standards meeting it will be out tomorrow.

Don't hold your breath :(

[Wizofoz]

Straight from JA today- "It won't be bad news, but temper your expectatons"!!!

[fatbus]

That means 3%

[The Turtle]

yes but its coded 2.99

[fliion]

Al. Cru ..not only disrespects other nationalities...but fellow Americans who came up a different route.

Guys like him are ten a penny in the US.

Anyone worth his salt will wait to judge based on personal experience. We have all met people from stellar backgrounds who are crap and those from less salubrious who are great...not for Al Cru...

His posts personify the "arrogant yank" and for rest of the us who walk quietly...

apologies to you all.

f.

[falconeasydriver]

With all this angst about, along with the usual crap floating downstream from various individuals, I have dip my hat to you turtle..

yes but its coded 2.99


Truly a superbly subtle quip, and worth all the stars in my eyes after snorting on my coke 0 :}
Well played Sir.

[Kittty125]

I'm with Kennedy on this one... Sadly, the way I read it I'm seeing a 3% step + 0.5%... Smoke and mirrors, as ever!

[oz in dxb]

Guys, after how many's years service does one hit the top pay scale?

Oz

[Nil defects]

Email is in your inbox

3.5% Total - enjoy!! :hmm:

[Laker]

where is this email? Can somebody post it? It should have arrived in everyones inbox..?

[Red Hackle]

My understanding is that you move up one step(if eligible) and that all steps have been increased by 3.5% as well?

[Fugazi]

6.5 % total.....unless you have been here forever.
Pretty good eh, considering?

[Tight Seat]

I didn't get the email. Am I the only one?

Cheers TS

[Michigan777flyer]

Nothing in my inbox yet.......oh oh.....

BTW so you get 1 step up.....and then +3.5%? is that the story?

[Shaky Hands]

No email yet....

[kennedy]

I do hope it is 6.5%, although the way I read it it seems to be only 3.5% or 0.5% for the old timers/new joiners!

Noticed it is from 1st may only, not like previous years when it was back dated to April!

[bidabon]

well, I haven't received anything....yet.
Pretty strange I must say :ooh::ooh:

[helen-damnation]

I am therefore pleased to announce the company has approved a 3.5% increase which INCLUDES a step increase for all eligible flight crew

It's your 3% step plus a whole 0.5% increase in the pay.

ie If you were on 30,000 that has increased to 30,150 plus the 3% step = 31,054.50

[Praise Jebus]

This is funny....how many combinations of 3.5 can we come up with....The steps have all gone up 0.5% and we all go up a step except the poor long timers on the top of course. So we got a 0.5% pay rise, (plus 0.5% of 3% for the pedantic types) at least that's my take on it. Thank you Mr Emirates :ok:

[Dropp the Pilot]

I will treasure my 0.5% raise and the strong message it sends to me, the valued employee.

[Taylor01]

It only says 3.5 which includes a step. Then it says "an adjustment to the salary step" but no amount???? really poorly worded so I guess 3.5 is it.:ugh:

[Rim-job]

Why is that company emails always come out with the option of being interpreted multiple ways.. I see it being either 3.5% or 6.5% depending on how you interpret it.

My guess is it's 3.5% total however i can see how guys can mistake it as 6.5%. Once again, a poorly decided on and poorly written pay review.

[aeropix]

I didn't get the email. When was it published? Did only FO's get it? Cheers.

[Laker]

I'm an FO and I did not receive an email regarding a pay review. Not surprised.

[camel_hump]

Same here, F/O and no email, is this only a Captain thing? :\:\

[Dogged]

I got the email...but they spelt my name wrong.
How do I interpret that?

[HighLow]

Guys and Gals,

who actually writes this stuff? its amazing.

If the goal was to write a clear and meaningful pay review, this would have been graded an "F" in school by my old English Teacher.

SUMMARY
3.5% it is (for those who are eligible) 0.5% for those who are not.


Pay Reviews / Badly Worded, Convoluted FCI's
come on, how about you raise the bar a bit
how about a bit of clarity in the future,
leaving no room for doubt! too much to ask?

P.S. Looks like more investment for Dubai?
I thought they were broke?

10 mega projects to adorn Dubai | GulfNews.com (http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/tourism/10-mega-projects-to-adorn-dubai-1.1183303)

[falconeasydriver]

Nothing seen.....go around Flap 20....

I did get 3 emails from various investment brokerages that somehow "managed" to get past the company spam filter...:hmm:

[camel_hump]

To those who got the email, was it individually addressed to your name or was it via a DL? If they writing a different name on all the email then I can understand why some of us hasn't receive it yet. Someone must be typing the hell away at a keyboard now.

[Taylor01]

Mine was addressed to me directly like every year.

[yada.yada.yada]

Ex 380 is right on the money...6.5% total. Further down in the paragraph, there is a sentence that starts with "As well as" so it's 3.5% for everyone and 3% for those eligible.

[HighLow]

Maybe the letter should have tried to simplify OM A- Chap 7 also :)

3.5% or 6.5%
Now, I am totally confused :)

I am going for a long walk to find a Brick Wall so to bang my head against !
:ugh:

[Shaky Hands]

Completely frustrated now as I still don't have an email to be confused about!!

[bidabon]

Got it eventually !
TCAS strikes again !! I sort of understand it is 6.5% but it is open to any interpretation one more time ... just like every year.

Wait and see.

[Rim-job]

I think I'm gonna go have a few cold ones... maybe then it will make sense. I'm guessing whoever wrote this was of a similar frame of mind by the looks of it.

Surely, writing an email of such importance cannot be that hard to mess up due to the lack of certainty and vagueness. :ugh:

I'm actually more confused now then i was when i first read it.

[fringhtok]

Anyone else still not received the mysterious, and apparently confusing, email?

[givemewings]

Must have been written by the same person who did the one about visa renewal... :hmm:

Do you think there's a special course they send them on in how to write emails giving as much info as possible but in a way that the general workforce struggles to comprehend what they are actually talking about? (And this is the native English speakers, I do wonder how the ESL crowd get on trying to read some of these bizarre missives)

[Rather Be Skiing]

I am out and about. Has anyone checked their adjustment on HR to see if it is reflected there. That should clarify the actual amount.

Why it needs to be this confusing is beyond me. Maybe they're having a laugh!

[fatbusdriver]

This is the wording:


"... I am therefore pleased to announce the company has approved a 3.5%
increase which includes a step increase fo all eligible flight crew (those who
have been employed on or before 31st December 2012 and who are below top of
scale) as well as an adjustment to the salary step with effect from 1st May
2013.


Take out the situff in brackets what do you get???

"... I am therefore pleased to announce the company has approved a 3.5%
increase which includes a step increase fo all eligible flight crew as well as an adjustment to the salary step with effect from 1st May 2013.

This looks like 3.5% to me! Keep up you hard work guys! It´s really worth it!

Very p***** o**!!:mad:

Hello tomorrow

[fatbusdriver]

It´s not reflected in HR yet. I think they are confused too! :E

[three eighty]

It's not out on our contract adjustments yet and until such time it will remain a mystery to all of us unless the author of the letter sends out clarification.

[disconnected]

Deliberately misleading is how I read the letter.

It is a 0.5% increase to the salary scales and everyone goes up a step (except those on the top step who have now had a 0.5% increase in the last 2 years!)

Why it cannot be simply written to be specific is beyond me. He would get a 1 for COMM.

A certain rot seems to have set in here. They are deliberately lowering salaries. Time to cast eyes towards other jobs. We have time, but the writing is on the wall.

As for the "extra mile".....

[VLS with ice]

Yearly inflation here must be higher than that, so we just took a pay cut....

[falconeasydriver]

Just read it, none the wiser, will wait till the contract letter comes through, I read it as 0.5% to the steps and a move up to the next step.

[BigGeordie]

I agree with disconnected (which is exactly how I feel). We are looking at a deliberate squeeze on terms and conditions as the company finds out how far it can go without affecting recruitment and retention too much. Just look at how well rewarded the people who have been here the longest have been- 0.5% in two years!

Make the most of it, you will never be as well paid (in real terms) in this company as you are now. Every year you will find your salary will buy a little less and you will work a little harder.

[White Knight]

Well I'm reading it as 3.5% AND the salary step (unless you're stuck at the top of course!!!

[lfrk]

I think fatbusdriver is our winner today! you have just unlocked it!

If our great management is reading this topic they must have a great laught!

My guess ; done on purpose...

[Mister Warning]

Can someone please just copy and paste the letter so we can all share in the joke!

[HighLow]

6.5% (3.5% plus a step of 3%) -
People are down , Morale at an all time low !
but people willing to keep the head down and work through it

3.5% (0.5% pay increase) -
An Absolute Insult !
Step + 0.5%, uproot a family for that???



PA in Dubai now can earn 30,000 AED per month,
a bit of perspective anyone?

[emratty]

Unbelievable! Has Ed returned it's the sort of letter he used to send out. I read it as 6.5 percent hopefully some clarity will be forthcoming.....

[Craggenmore]

surely there's a paragraph missing!

HighLow, forget being a PA in Dubai, move from Super Jumbo's to Super yatchts. Top salaries around $240,000

Demand soars for Gulf superyacht staff - Luxury Living - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/demand-soars-for-gulf-superyacht-staff-501504.html)

[Cloud Bunny]

Word from HR (buddy just came from wash up) is its 3.5%. But apparently that ascertion wasn't totally convincing!! So anyone's guess!!
:ugh:
Re-reading the email though I make it 3.5%. I guess we will see when the contract adjustments are done.

[White Knight]

It may be signed by our esteemed boss; but would have been written by - funnily enough, a PA - for whom English is undoubtedly not a first language!

[White Knight]

Word from HR (buddy just came from wash up) is its 3.5%. But apparently that ascertion wasn't totally convincing!! So anyone's guess!!


So why bother posting this non information:ugh::hmm:

[EK_Desert_Slave]

I was hopeful of 6.5% initially, but the more I read the email the more it becomes clear that it is only 3.5%. The key words in the email are "WHICH INCLUDES". It says "an increase of 3.5% WHICH INCLUDES a step increase AND an adjustment to the salary step (0.5%). Thanks for your generosity Emirates...that means that other than the step I get an extra 134 dirhams per month!!!! Woohoo!! :yuk:

[EK_Desert_Slave]

Personally I find the extra 0.5% more insulting than if they had just given the basic 3% step. Its as if they are saying, "We know that you deserve more than the step, so here is .5%". How stupid do they think we are honestly?? Why not just throw in a McDonald's happy meal gift certificate and call that our "raise"...

[Dropp the Pilot]

If you are relatively new to the company you may want to savour what the future holds: the most senior 200 or so pilots in the company are now making 0.5% more than they were two years ago

This is the regional notion of how one treats the "valued" employees.

There is a nice set of brackets there. If you apply to the airline with too little experience you get a PFO letter. If you eventually get hired but stay too long you get a PFO pay adjustment.

[Wilya]

0.5% (can you even call that an increase:ugh:)

That is what you call "adding insult to injury":mad:

[SOPS]

I have refrained from up to now... But they are seriously taking the p.., all goodwill just gone

[Eric Carr]

Well if the total is 3,5 percent woulden't that make the increase something like 0,48 for the newbies and the oldies....

[BongleBear]

I can't see how this can mean 6.5%. It says 3.5% includes the step for those who are eligible.

3% step plus the 0.5% raise.

If you joined after December 2012 you get +0.5%.

Why they word all letters like it's been put through google translate is beyond me

[Wrist shot]

Guys, sorry to inform you all , it's a pay rise of Exactly 0.5 %.
I Confirmed if with HR.

Sorry to say the least .

[clear to land]

Isn't it amazing that someone who holds a DSVP position, and for whom English is their first language, can't send basic information to the pilot body without it being subject to various interpretation!! This reflects incredibly negatively on the said individuals ability to communicate. I wonder whether he will care ?

[fringhtok]

Finally received the email. Not sure what some of you were reading, it's not the best writing but it's clearly 3.5% total. "..company has approved a 3.5% increase which INCLUDES (emphasis mine) a step increase.

Nothing in this place matters other than supply and demand. Their thinking is that the top 200 guys either have no place to go or don't want to leave. There are enough in the queue to ensure new classes are filled this year. Therefore, no need for an increase in real wages. The rest of us will tread water for another year and hope for a morsel next year........

[BongleBear]

The new joiners have recently been told that accommodation allowance is going up to 180,000/200,000 (FO/Capt). If the recruitment/new joiners team are saying this then surely there has to be even a hint of truth in it?!

Anyone heard about it? I thought it would be mentioned in the same email as the pay decrease one we got today.

[Murrenfan]

From JA on a wash up today: the yearly step of 3% has increased to 3,5%. That's all we've got, 3,5% on basic, halas.

[EK_Desert_Slave]

The 3.5% will be reflected on the MAY 26 paycheck. Basic salary is paid for the current month, its hourly flight pay that is paid for the previous month. I went back and checked and the letter from last year was worded "effective May 1" as well and the increase started on my May check.

[givemewings]

Not sure if it applied to all accomm allowances, but someone asked the question on Open House recently, due to rising rents would it be going up, and the response was the usual "competitive, we assess according to market standards, blah blah blah.... not at this time"

Wouldn't hold your breath on that one...

[Rim-job]

So let me get this straight...

The company makes over 3 billion dhs in profit this year and we get no profit share and a 0.5% increase in salary.

Wow... I sure do feel the love. :rolleyes:

[Wrist shot]

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Because that's about what you can buy for your 6 dirhams pay increased per day. (6 year Captain)
At Mc Donald's that is.

Enjoy.

[halas]

You get to keep your job :}

But that option is yours :(

halas

[Cloud Bunny]

So why bother posting this non information

You're quite right White Knight I do apologise, I shall strip naked and thrash myself until I bleed.

[Mach_Krit]

that increase wont even buy me enough beer to make this rubbish funny...maybe donate it back to them...they seem to really need it! fakkin ey.

[Laker]

givemewings,

Regarding the housing allowance. That would be great if they assessed according to the market, as the Dubai housing market has gone up about 30-40% in the past year. But maybe they are basing it on the excess supply of pilots still willing to join ek. In that case it will be cost neutral...:mad:

[Taylor01]

Mine, according the adjustment letter went up a whole 1080AED or 295USD.:D:ok:

[fliion]

0.5% pay raise.

I mean its actually funny at this stage.

Have any of you guys who have been in wash-up got a sense of their understanding of the anger out on the line...or are they completely ambivalent?

f.

[White Knight]

You're quite right White Knight I do apologise, I shall strip naked and thrash myself until I bleed.

Apologies. That was a bit harsh of me:}

[glofish]

Yes fliion.

They know it perfectly well and they get a badly concealed kick out of it.
It's the drug called power, the effect is contempt and arrogance.
This "raise" is clearly a calculated provocation, some sort of test.

[maimax]

seriously?
...anyone ever heard of a 0.5% pay rise...world wide?
is getting together to share feelings and thoughts not done...illegal?

[Cloud Bunny]

White Knight
Apologies. That was a bit harsh of me

Not a problem Sir, thick skin and a blinding sense of humour no offence taken!! Only thing stopping me from bursting in tears over the last few days! :}

[Iver]

Now that is a small raise for such a wealthy airline!!!!!! :ugh::eek:

For those Americans out there I hear American Airlines will open up applications in July/August, United Airlines is currently accepting applications and Delta could start in the latter fall or early 2014 according to another forum. :D

[motojet]

This is an exact repeat of two years ago. Back then we received a similar confusing letter and pilots were arguing whether or not we had just a step increase or a step increase and a pay increase. Thankfully it turned out to be both which resulted in a total 8% increase.
You would think that they would learn from their previous mistake and this time spell it out more clearly but obviously not.

[cerbus]

Iver 4 Americans are resigning in June with more sure to follow.
Ex-pat taxation, crap pay, treatment of pilots and living in a 3rd world country get very tiring after a few years not to mention the thievery that happened this week. How much more can one take?

[mooseknuckles]

As I said before, with the major US airlines starting to hire again, there will be a significant number of americans headed home and very few deciding to come this way. I know management and the rest of the pilots probably don't care but thats the reality. As long as there are guys lining up from crap LCCs, we won't see a raise or a bonus. Hopefully they will soon run out of candidates who have a history of paying airlines for the privilege to fly.

[fatbus]

Do you really think EK cares if the US pilots leave? NO. You guys need to get over yourselves. The facts are you can be replaced , there is 2000 applications that they are working through and the hiring is slowed right down at the moment and can also be cranked up just as fast .

[glofish]

So true, moose and fatbus.

More an more we can hear such jewels on the radio here and we can read their awesome ASR's .... not to speak of having to listen to their infinite wisdom in the sim.

It makes you feel at home flying over the land of the great unwashed.

[Panther 88]

WRT any Americans leaving....it's a numbers game. Now, those with U.S. passports make up the second largest group behind the U.K. Yes, there are still those innocents lined up at the door to enter, but with any large group here heading out of the door, it will create issues with manning and training. A very large number of U.S. pilots have recall rights, and they very likely will be exercising their recall after these latest two bucket fillers. I'm sure there won't be many a tear shed, if this forum is any indication, but who will get the last laugh in the final analysis? We'll see.

Even U.S. Airlines are giving pay raises AND profit shares/bonuses on half the money that EK made. But sorry, they didn't get new uniforms and a cute little Emirates/Qantas "book". And they didn't get to see their airline logo plastered all over every sporting event around the world. So I guess it's even; they get money and we get the privilege of seeing our logo. I know I feel the love.

[new tomcat]

Is the hostility towards the Yanks because of genuine dislike or is there jealously because a lot will leave towards better airlines and salaries?
Please don't mention the Comms crap. A pilot can not speak like they are in Kindergarten when operating into places like ORD, ATL and LAX. It just takes too much time.

[Oldaircrew]

If the US's retirement bubble is as bad as IATA believe it will be, then it won't just be the septics going back to the states. green cards for everyone! There are a lot of third world children here who would love to have a real country to go and live in. That might make them sit up and take notice.

[White Knight]

Is the hostility towards the Yanks because of genuine dislike or is there jealously because a lot will leave towards better airlines and salaries?

I don't seen any hostility at all towards the Yanks (or Dixie Rebs), just discussion that many of our across-the-pond chums might wish to go back and fly a reserve line for the next 6 years on a 737/320:D

[Laker]

White Knight-

Then you get a 1 for situational awareness.

[Panther 88]

WK. as opposed to 95 hours, terms and conditions at the whim of the sand, no pay raises, etc. etc., all night flying every month. Yeah, you're right, would never want to go back to that. I love our rostering:sad:

[Kapitanleutnant]

White Knight....

Don't think you've done your homework, old boy! The next few years have literally thousands of retiring pilots at the US majors and thus someone getting in on the "ground floor" of this soon to be major wave of hiring will more than likely be a new captain at the 6-7 year point vs the reserve you speak of.

Kap

[fatbus]

6-7 years to Capt then all should go, have a nice day , you will not be missed. No offense. EK will not not bow to any one nationality.

[White Knight]

Then you get a 1 for situational awareness.

Thanks but my SA is fine; couldn't really give a stuff about what the Yanks do:=

WK. as opposed to 95 hours, terms and conditions at the whim of the sand, no pay raises, etc. etc., all night flying every month. Yeah, you're right, would never want to go back to that. I love our rostering

Dream on old fellah. The Yankee outfits are also run by beancounters:ugh::rolleyes: All night flying? Well, when you joined EK it was an all-night carrier. Grow up!!!!!

will more than likely be a new captain at the 6-7 year point vs the reserve you speak of

Watch this space........................... You will STILL be on reserve and living in a caravan in LAX carpark:}:D:}

[White Knight]

Oh yeah; Did you mean 6-7 years to captain of 747, 340, MD-11 or EMB-190 or CRJ200 in your 40s and 50s????????????????????

[Panther 88]

WK, you are so right. I did join EK when was, as you say, an all night carrier. The difference, 70 hours a month with the cooperation of rostering to help you out to get your ten to fifteen days off in a row per month. Got the log books to prove it.WK, couldn't agree more, why should anyone want to go fly a 737/320 for some crap carrier like Delta or Southwest or American (when new pay rates take affect) for 220k a year. Sure wouldn't be something I would want to do. I mean we are so much more closer to the center of the universe as pilots, flying wide bodies. To think one might have abide by a contract agreed to by management and pilots. The horror. Remember, these are guys that have recall rights already.

[EK_Desert_Slave]

Wow where does all of this hostility toward "Yanks" (as you say) come from? Every airline and every nationality has their "2 percent-ers" so to speak, but generalizing and bashing one large group of pilots here just makes you look like one of the "2 percent-ers" yourself. What American in this forum has acted like we are more important than anyone else or are going to "stick it to the man" by leaving? All I have seen is guys simply stating the fact that there are opportunities back home cropping up if/when they no longer feel like Dubai is the place for them.

Why is that so threatening to some? I think we all know that EK, just like any other airline for that matter, doesn't really care either way and will just bring along the next group of new joiners. If someone leaves to go back to their home country, who are you to criticize that decision or pretend that you know what is best for that individual? We are all part of the same group of pilots here are we not?

I can't imagine anyone is thrilled about the way things have gone here as of late, but why all the hateful and childish comments directed at other pilots or especially 1 nationality? Some of the attitudes and out of control egos around here toward fellow colleagues are the reason why we as pilots really are our own worst enemies at times. Working for a multinational airline must be tough for guys with such disdain for nationalities/cultures other than their own. Personally, I find it much easier to chalk up the jerks to being part of the 2%, and having the common sense and professionalism to show up to work without preconceived ideas and biases against any individual based on what passport they hold...

[MosEisley]

Fatbus, why so hostile? If you read his post he said "not that management or the rest of the pilots will care". I think he was just pointing out that there are a lot of guys who will leave to go back. If that makes you happy then great but your unprovoked aggression seems misplaced. You hate Americans? No worries mate, that list is long but distinguished, hop in line.

[EK_Desert_Slave]

Oh and one more thing...the "anyone who flies a smaller plane than me is beneath me as a human being" attitude is way overplayed. Just because some choose quality of life and what job is best for them and their family over "I have to fly the biggest thing in the sky or my ego can't handle it" doesn't make them any less of a pilot or person. No need to act like being a captain of an A320 or even a CRJ200 makes you a failure in life. :ok:

[LHR Rain]

White Knight left BA under questionable circumstances and he hasn't forgotten it. He is a management lacky who goes into the office almost everyday trying to "save" the company and justify why he left BA.
His hostility towards Americans comes from another angle. He is jealous.
I don't know any narrowbody FO flying in the states living in a RV. After all when SW, DL, and AA just to name a few all pay their 737 FOs well north of $100,000 and they only have to work 12-13 days a month who wouldn't want to fly for those conditions, nationalites aside.
Then when you look at the widebody pay scales at the US majors you realize how underpaid we at EK are. A closer look tells us they only work 8-10 days a month and then it really hits home what EK is doing to us.
But it is good for you White Knight. Did you spend all of your "bonus" yet?

[Watchdog]

So true Desert Slave,

I just want to "neck myself" when I get airborne and see 4000nm on the progress page.
LR/ULR is such a mind numbing experience (lucky for sudoku 😃) not to mention the 0030 alarm clock. After 7 years, just 2 more months then back to the 'solar powered' minibus...thank heavens!

Quality of life 😎

[MosEisley]

LHR, thanks for the explanation but I still can't figure why fatbus is such a dick. WK, I'd fly a damn Cessna for 200k with 19 days off and no back of the clock, so holster that sky god attitude about flying big jets, it really doesn't mean s#it. It's a good thing you don't like America because they probably wouldn't have you anyway, works out best for everyone. Now I'd like to present both of you with a little NY hospitality and cordially invite you to go f*ck yourselves.

[Wizofoz]

Anyone who says they wouldn't rather be in a Major in their home country than at EK is deep in rationalisation mode- and I LIKE EK!

Even with the latest setbacks, there are far worse places to be (as our hold pool shows), but only if the chance to work for a first rate carrier in a Western Country is not available.

I think it's a big call for an American with a few years invested here to leave and be at the bottom of a very long seniority list, but I completely understand and wish them all the best.

What would be REALLY nice is if the current situation in the states sorted out the truley apalling conditions available to the Regional pilots in the US, negioiated by the same Unions that maintain the enviable conditions enjoyed by the Major pilots and trumpeted about here.

[cerbus]

Flying Big Jets doesn't mean crap especially here since they all pay the same so the only pilots strutting around thinking they are cool for flying heavy iron are the ones in a serious need of a attitude readjustment. That was meant for you White Knight!
Why fly heavies at EK when you work more and get paid the same as 737 drivers at Majors? But it is good for you WK.
For some reason WK has something against Yanks. Fair enough he is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to tell him what a dick he is. After all he does work in the office and we all know what kind of pilots and people work in the office.
WK are you happy with the two events that took place in the last week? The theft of our bonus and the 1/2 of a percent pay raise. You probably are such a company arsehole that they could cut your pay 50% and you would still be happpy to slave away for EK. What a dick!

[ramius315]

"anyone who flies a smaller plane than me is beneath me as a human being" attitude is way overplayed

Correct.

But boy it's funny listening to en ex-RJ driver tell everybody in earshot everything there is to know about flying, and then watching them try to fly a widebody........ :E

[Fear_of_heights]

You would go back to the states for different reasons but the pay. Even as a DL FO starting at $66 and going up to a 10 year FO making $130 an hour and $140000 p.a.(100k-110k after taxes) still won't match the EK FO $150k+ tax free(basic, fly pay, housing allowance, 1 kid school allowance, provident fund). Americans would go back for their families, quality of life, laid back environment, stability and retirement. It doesn't matter if you fly a 320/330/777/380, at the end of the day it's a combination of how happy you are from your job and how much money you are bringing to your family. What happened last week was sad and insulting at the same time. Keep flying safe!!!:):):):)

[fatbus]

Not hostile at all, as just stated , be realistic about your return. You don't have to justify it to me but only yourself.I happen to know someone in HR and some pilots leave for the wrong reasons and regret it. Policy now is not to take anyone back that leaves, they don't really care .

[FUSE PLUG]

Try and not redirect the anger you feel for being poorly compensated at any other nationality. It is a misplaced anger and does the pilot group, as a whole, a disservice. Be mad about how hard you worked and it not being good enough. That is where the fight resides.

One thinig I can't get my head around though:
Those at EGHQ tell us "if we don't like it, then leave" and it makes us angry.

American's say "okay, we'll leave" and you get angry?

Take a deep breath and get some sleep guys, its been a tough week.

Olive branches of peace for us all...

[Wizofoz]

forgetting that the ''super'' might have contributed bugger all to the bottom line.

I'm increasingly suspicious that it IS contributing to the bottom line- in the wrong direction.

When it already burns more fuel/ set-mile than a 300ER, how is it going to fare against the 777X with 15% better ecconomy?

[cerbus]

If WKs plane is so super why does he get paid the same as the rest of us? Can't be as super as he thinks and he probably is not as super as he thinks he is either. Typical Big Watch, Small C0ck syndrome.
What else can he pontificate to us about? We are waiting White Knight. About how good it is here for you or your family? You office boy working 20 days a month and that is good for you and your family? It probably is good for you and your family because they only have to see you 10 days a month keeping in mind that widebody pilots at real airlines only WORK 10 days a month. We know it is good for you though.

[EK_Desert_Slave]

Ramius,

Funny that you agree with my statement, then you spout off a comment that is a perfect example of the kind of attitude that I'm talking about! As a matter of fact, I flew CRJs at my previous carrier. Maybe you can enlighten me since I'm just a lowly ex-CRJ guy. What exactly is it about the CRJ that makes anyone who flew it a bad pilot? Is it not an airplane? Is it not much more modern and more similar to what we fly here than say an MD-80? Just becuse the system in Europe is different and the first thing you fly out of flight school is an A320 don't act like that somehow makes you better than me. And what ex-CRJ guys are you speaking of that act like they know everything about aviation? The only people I see acting like that are people who never had to fly a CRJ because they were given an opportunity to fly a "real" airplane straight from a Cessna 172. If only I could fly with you maybe you could pull me from the depths of ignorance as an ex-CRJ pilot and show me how to fly a "real" airplane so I don't have to simply "try"and fail miserably anymore.

[Mister Warning]

Your management must p!ss themselves laughing every time they read Pprune, as the threads drift and then inevitably turn into slinging matches.
Perhaps you have lost sight of who the real enemy is...

[MrMachfivepointfive]

forgetting that the ''super'' might have contributed bugger all to the bottom line.
There are five 'supers' each day to LHR, plus two from QF.
Staff travel to LHR is hopeless. What does that tell you?

[cerbus]

It doesn't say anything about yields and yields drive the airline, not load factors.
Airlines figured this out decades ago but 5.5 is still trying to get his head around this concept.

[glofish]

What does that tell you?

That we upgrade almost 100 lucky punters to premium seats having paid peanuts for it ...... and there goes the bonus .....
(sorry for the drift, just couldn't let pass this one! ;) )

I fullheartidly agree that the enemy sits in another palace. :yuk:

[nakbin330]

They surely must Mister, they surely must.

[Wizofoz]

Well, when it's a thread about lousy financial relults and the consequent lousy pay rise, I don't think a side conversation about WHY is that out or order.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Perhaps our profit share money was distributed among the uninspired and maladroit design engineers at Airbus?

When you consider that their inefficient and overweight excrescence adds directly and massively to the bottom line at Emirates in the form of millions of dollars in underperformance penalty payments, delivery delay penalty payments, loss of use penalty payments related to wing repairs, well - fair is fair.

[ramius315]

It's oh-so-easy to turn the wind up key in an industry full of (over-inflated) egos......

:E

[EK_Desert_Slave]

Correct.

But boy it's funny listening to en ex-RJ driver tell everybody in earshot everything there is to know about flying, and then watching them try to fly a widebody........ http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

Haha funny that someone who makes this statement has the audacity to accuse anyone who calls him out on his arrogance as having an "over-inflated ego"! The irony in that reply just made my day. Thank you for the good laugh Ramius. Run along with your "sky god" attitude. Us ex-crj guys will continue to "TRY"...

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Airlines figured this out decades ago but 5.5 is still trying to get his head around this concept.

Thanks for doubting my intelligence. Word in the HQ is that our BELF is in the low 60s. which sounds reasonable.

Hence, I am going with:

3. Or some one is telling porky pies about the bottom line.

[Wizofoz]

BELF

For the dummies, what is BELF??

[777boyindubai]

Break Even Load Factor :ok:

[fliion]

The 2012/13 BELF (taken from report) was 66.9%. This is a slight increase over previous years.

These are the numbers for from 2008/09 onwards.

64.1/64.4/63.6/65.9

f.

[Wizofoz]

And that's where it gets ugly.

If we simply covered costs, did not return a dividend and kept our cash reserve, including investment returns, unchanged, we would have "Broken even".

We did better than that to the tune of aroung 5 billion Dhs- they just chose not to define a large percentage of that as "Profit".

[cerbus]

The US has 30,000 commercial flights a day. That does not include the military, corporate or VFR traffic which ups the number of flights considerably.
If you LL insist on talking like you have crap in your mouth go ahead but one can not and must not talk like you are in kindergarten when fly in the states.
Everyone knows we are an embarrassment when we fly in the states. How many times have you heard "I hope they don't give us a runway change" when landing in the US. "We don't do visuals." We are a joke and most pilots in the world know it.
They are not lazy in the states just very busy and the pilots have the contracts and pay scales to prove it.

[journeyman]

So why on earth, Cerbus, would you want to work with a bunch of clowns like us?
Reminds me of that joke: "My mother never understood the irony of calling me a son-of-a-b*tch."

[fliion]

Coz he wanted to know the difference between Pan & Mayday.

; >

[White Knight]

4. But without getting into Super vs Rest mud slinging, we know that ''Heavy'' is the true work horse and hasn't called in sick since its inception.

Wasn't called the CRIPPLE 7 for nothing when it first came to EK..... Far lower initial dispatch reliability than than the 380.

FACT.........

[yankeefly]

:zzz:

I think that the "get in line" sort of negativity about yanks has a multi-faceted origin and we deserve some of it, or at least I do.

The lingo/slang/CAP14 case is valid. So is our adoption of slang domestically. When I was trained, it wasn't stressed. Period. I grew up in that world. When I came to the other world, it was blatant and a problem. I still work on improving myself and expressing myself more clearly and conveying sometimes complex requests and requirements to non-native English speakers. I try to improve my standard phraseology.

When I was a young turboprop FO, a Captain I flew with taught me a few things about precise readbacks of ground clearances/take-off clearances, etc. I taught the same lessons to my FO's in turn.

A few months ago I was #2 for takeoff in the USA as augmenter FO. An AMR MD-80 was cleared for takeoff by the controller and the takeoff clearance readback was literally, "Cleared to go." I was horrified, embarrassed, and disappointed. The controller let it go. If I was his Captain or FO (I don't know which of them was the guilty one), I wouldn't have.

Then when it was it was our turn, my European FO pilot monitoring read back our takeoff clearance and didn't mention a runway number. Ugh.

At the end of the day, we all have strengths and weaknesses. We all bring things to the cockpit.

Maybe even I have brought someting good to the cockpit along with some bad. Then again, I am a Yank.

Now, for those that really hate the USA, hmm, stay away ;-) We have over 300 million people that don't hate the place, and many more that might like to join us.

We aren't perfect. We have done many bad things along with many good. I think the argument could be made that the USA has made some positive contributions to humanity. I hope we learn from the bad and mistakes and help move humanity forward.

Besides, the days of manned cockpits are numbered anyways :rolleyes:

Yankeefly

[scandistralian]

What date are we meant to be paid?

[michaeljpotter]

26th Incl the wonderful pay rise for the month of may

[natops]

When can we expect info about any increase in scholing allowance? Or am I naive...

N.:ok:

[Mister Warning]

OUTLAW - LMFAO :D

[fatbus]

School and Housing if any in July.

[BongleBear]

If announced in July will it be back dated to May or just start in July/August?

I am still hearing from new joiners that housing is going to 180k and 200k