SWO AND HIS STICK

[KPax]

After 38 years in I recently left for a quieter life, on passing my local station recently I noticed the new SWO walking with his stick and waving it in a strange manner. Several people have commented that they have never seen this before, question is there a standard way for him to walk with his stick or can he do what he wants as is the SWO.

[Wander00]

All in AP818 Chap 7 IIRC

[Rossian]

....."waving it in a strange manner"?? In what way strange? A la Harry Potter? Or perhaps a la Herbert von Karajan? Tip on the ground and swaggering along with the cane head moving in a circle to the side a la Beau Brummel? Exactly how??

The Ancient Mariner

[engoal]

Cue old gag:
SWO - "Scroggins, there a little sh*t at the end of my stick!"
Scroggins - "Not at my end, Sir!";)

[MATELO]

I should imagine Mr SWO can do what he wants with his stick to be honest.

[Avtur]

Just like the majority of the cr@p on this forum?

[Spit the Dog]

After being given 'the SWO stick' for a temporary 7 month spell, I ventured outside with what I thought was the correct hand to carry a SWO stick, the left! Therefore leaving my right hand to salute. It was quickly pointed out to me that I was carrying it in the wrong hand as you tucked it under your left arm-pit to salute, therefore it had to be the right hand. So I preceded to carry it in the right hand with the silver Warrant Badge facing forward. Wrong again!! I was corrected a final time and told it had to be the pointy end facing forward, so when you smartly swung it around and tucked it under your left arm-pit, the silver Warrant Badge would be facing the officer you were saluting. That will teach them for putting a bloke on flying pay in SHQ, what do I know? Incidentally, a week later, the CASWO phoned me up to ask how I was doing in my 'new' post, I said fine thanks, he replied; "I understand you've been carrying the stick in the wrong hand and in the wrong direction", I said how on earth he knew that, he replied; "I'm CASWO!".

[Always Up]

Just like the majority of the cr@p on this forum?

:D:D:D:D:D

Oh how others see us:ok:

[E-Spy]

Shouldn't this be posted in the completely inane questions forum?

Just like the majority of the cr@p on this forum?

Lighten up people FFS!

SOMETIMES it might be about the backroom boys and girls


I never knew that snippet, and it may just be the one thing some of us might be able to call out the SWO on.....

[Melchett01]

Shouldn't this be posted in the completely inane questions forum?

Just like the majority of the cr@p on this forum?

Lighten up people FFS!

Quite right E-Spy. I do sometimes wonder just how operational some of the individuals are who throw spears and accueations of relevance on here actually are. Maybe individuals are bluffing - the further away from the cockpit or front line an individual is, the more they have to protest about the supposed irrelevance of other posts. I mean, God forbid we should be rounded individuals capable of a grown up discussion every now and then (not too often mind :p )

If we keep throwing the relevance spears, its going to end up that unless you post your comment from the cockpit whilst in flight, possibly asking for hints and tips on what to do with all flashing lights that have suddenly disturbed your peaceful transit, or using it as a tourist guide to the best places to divert, any post will automatically be assumed to be irrelevant by the 'hard core operational' types. Remember, it's a light hearted internet forum, it ain't ground school or STANEVAL!

[Chicken Leg]

Does make you wonder how someone who doesn't know how to carry a "SWO stick" can be regarded by someone else as being suitable and qualified to do just that...

[Jayand]

Suitably qualified? I thought you just had to be a sadistic, small minded prat who was probably bullied as a child?

[langleybaston]

Mr Smith at RAF Nicosia c. 1962 was a perfect gentleman, ruled with a rod of iron, led by example and only raised his voice on parade. Routinely changed his KD at lunch time, dust never settled on his footwear, a million miles from the archetypal w@nker.
With Mickey Martin as Staish, and Jimmy Gordon as CMetO, it was a good place to be a little weatherman.

[snaggletooth]

Slightly off-topic, but does the SWO or any other Warrant Officer salute the raising/lowering of the Ensign, or is that the preserve of Commissioned Officers?

[TheWizard]

You certainly do if you are SDO/OO. Twice! :)

[snaggletooth]

And if not SDO/OO? Airmen I think do not, Officers do, WOs?

[Pontius Navigator]

You certainly do if you are SDO/OO. Twice! :)

I know at least once I failed :( and know I had nightmares about not getting there in time. God bless all OS.

[incubus]

And if not SDO/OO? Airmen I think do not, Officers do, WOs?
Nope. WOs only salute if they are SDO/OO at the time.

[Kitbag]

Getting bored wth this now so AP818 Ch 1 refers:



23. On occasions when the Royal Air Force Ensign is being hoisted or lowered at a Royal Air Force establishment all ranks within view of the ensign or within hearing of the Alert call (whistle) are to face the flagstaff and stand to attention, officers only are to salute. These general rules are to be applied by the Air Training Corps in relation to their Corps' ensign.



Jayand, I guess a nasty SWO frightened you at some point?

[Rossian]

....You still haven't answered the original question.
Suggest you describe this "strange manner" of stick waving so that the thread can get back on track.
The way that it has drifted suggests that aircrew might be infesting this forum.

The Ancient Mariner

[G&T ice n slice]

..... RAF Nicosia c. 1962 ..... it was a good place to be a little weatherman.

Scorchio! ?

[AR1]

You've finally handed out enough bedding and swept enough guardroom floors to earn the right to carry the stick.- You'd wave it around too.

[Roland Pulfrew]

to earn the right to carry the stick

If only they all lived up to some of the standards already mentioned on here. I've met a mixed bunch during my time, some utterly brilliant at keeping JOs in check and others who wouldn't say boo to a goose let alone pull up some scruffy airman/JO. A good SWO is worth his (or her) weight in gold.:D

[incubus]

Getting bored wth this now so AP818 Ch 1 refers:
AP818, Part 2, Chapter 16 also refers. See Para 9b.

[ricardian]

RAF Sharjah 1963-64. SWO post was a FltSgt. When I got there the SWO was FS "Sid" Reilly, ruled with a light touch. His replacement (on his first overseas tour in 20+ years!) spent the first morning marching around in KD and Nr 1 SD hat b*llocking all and sundry for minor dress infringements then spent the next 48 hours in SSQ with heat stroke and severe dehydration. He did calm down a bit but was never as popular or as effective as Sid Reilly.

[Duplo]

I was in the NAAFI at Akrotiri one lunchtime and observed the SWO ticking off a young F3 pilot for long hair, long sideburns, flight suit zip to his wait and wearing a blues brothers t-shirt. The SWO was simply and calmly pointing out that it was a challenge to keep the airman in line when the officers looked like a bunch of louts. The next amusing thing was the same JO then coming up to me complaining about the SWO's 'attack' on him..! Oh I laughed and suggested he registered his 'complaint' with his sqn cdr... The SWO however had beaten him to it...

[dctyke]

One of the best I've seen was the SWO at Wittering in the mid 70's, if he caught anyone really out of line he would march them to the photo section for a front and side pic. The first a sqn cdr new about it was when the monthly stn mag appeared with the guilty mans pics complete with what section he came from. It really made the mag essential reading.

That same SWO bollocked me for holding my future wifes hand at the bus stop outside the camp, it was a Saturday morning and we were in civvies! - happy days..........

[Blacksheep]

I never came across a SWO who was a patch on the Garrison Sergeant Major at Aldershot. Now he really knew the meaning of discipline and maintaining standards, but I never heard him raise his voice or be anything other than perfectly polite . . .



. . . in a menacing sort of way.



"Speak softly, but carry a big stick"

[NutLoose]

A good SWO is worth his (or her) weight in gold

And some of them wanted the equivalent tying around their ankles and shoved overboard..


..

[muttywhitedog]

Does it actually matter how it is carried and in which direction the stick faces?

In fact, what is the point of the stick at all?

[ricardian]

The SWO needs his stick so that he can leave it on the table at the entrance to the Sgt's Mess thus announcing his presence therein

[tmmorris]

Blacksheep,

What vintage?

Tim

[NutLoose]

muttywhitedog Does it actually matter how it is carried and in which direction the stick faces?

In fact, what is the point of the stick at all?


Isn't it also his pace stick for marching etc?

[500N]

Nutloose

A pace stick, yes.

A swagger stick not sure but don't think so.

[diginagain]

Isn't it also his pace stick for marching etc?
In the RAF?

[NutLoose]

Sorry... ambling...

[Melchett01]

Ambling? Dear God, have standards dropped that far? Perambulating maybe, but never ambling.

[500N]

Strolling ? :O

[MightyGem]

Wandering. ;)

[SOSL]

Mutty, the point of the stick is the bit at the opposite end to the knob.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/FE89C660_5056_A318_A85E093CBEC59A4F.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=qC-mHYE5ST3HNM&tbnid=OMHruHpTXT_1FM:&ved=0CAgQjRwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.raf.mod.uk%2Forganisation%2Fcaswo.cfm&ei=st6UUfPoLYqs0QXB6YHoDQ&psig=AFQjCNGZkWbIk8iBLXg8exvKS6ZQO-1vxQ&ust=1368797234794056)

In case you're wondering, no! The knob I'm referring to is the embellishment on the end of the stick which you can see under Mr Sparks arm. He is a highly respected CASWO.

Rgds SOS

[Blacksheep]

tmmorris - 1977.

We first met when we entered the mess, sat down and ordered lunch. The waitress served us and retreated behind the counter. Shortly afterwards, the GSM marched into the room with all the other SNCOs following in single file, in rank order. GSM comes over to our table "Ah! You must be Royal Air Force!" "Yes, sir!" Says we, standing up. Without another word, he marches to his place, the other Sergeants go to theirs, the GSM sits, everyone else sits.

We got the message and brought up the rear for the rest of our sojourn. He was a great storyteller in the bar on an evening.

[muttywhitedog]

He is a highly respected CASWO.

He would still be a highly respected CASWO even if he didnt carry a stick stuffed under his armpit.

[wilnot]

Certainly back in the 60s the SWO carried a pace stick during practice parades. When I was with 114 Sqn at Benson back then we had a Standard presentation, there were endless practices before the real thing. The SWO was Mr 'Bog' Holt (I seem to remember the soubriquet referred to his bog-brush moustache). He was highly respected, and quite fearsome. I remember he had no qualms about correcting the Sqn Cdr (Wg Cdr C R Evans, anyone remember him?), and as for us JOs, after a couple of sessions with Mr Holt, our sword drill was immaculate!

[Blue Bottle]

He would still be a highly respected CASWO even if he didnt carry a stick stuffed under his armpit.

I believe the ‘stick’ is part of his uniform as CASWO and without it, he is not considered to be properly dressed, you will be suggesting he can leave his tie off next.

[Madbob]

Does anyone remember Jack Holt? He was SWO at Linton in c. 1979-80.
I made the mistake of crossing his path a couple of times when a stude, and he was pretty sharp about remembering peoples' faces.....

So when I diverted into LOO about a year later, sans hat, he took agin me again as I was going past SHQ on the way to the mess in my growbag.

He softened up a little when I explained and let me on my way. Apparently, he retired soon after and I heard he passed away after a very brief retirement.

MB

[Al R]

It could be worse. Imagine it, being a US Marine and carrying a brolly.

President Obama makes U.S. Marine break the rules, and he does not look happy about it!! | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325893/President-Obama-makes-U-S-Marine-break-rules-does-look-happy-it.html)

[DX Wombat]

Gender inequality!Regulation MCO P1020.34F of the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations chapter 3, rules out any use or carrying of an umbrella while a Marine is in uniform.

However, female Marines 'may carry an all-black, plain standard or collapsible umbrella at their option during inclement weather with the service and dress uniforms. It will be carried in the left hand so that the hand salute can be properly rendered.Couldn't happen here could it? :E
Edited to add - please carry on as usual ladies and gentlemen, I enjoy reading this forum. :ok:
By the way, what about "sauntering"? ;)

[muttywhitedog]

I believe the ‘stick’ is part of his uniform as CASWO and without it, he is not considered to be properly dressed, you will be suggesting he can leave his tie off next.

Only if he's wearing a short-sleeved shirt :-)

Then what does he do with his piece of shiny wood?

[500N]

I noticed a Marine Cpl carrying a pace stick or swagger stick on the returned parade of 40 Cdo in Somerset.

[Blacksheep]

"Sauntering" is what we ground crew did on our way to the airmen's mess. We certainly never did it at Halton, especially when 'Black Jim' Hadley was around.


(One alwaysknew when 'Black Jim' was around :eek:)

[Blue Bottle]

Have you seen a SWO in a short sleeve shirt ?

[goudie]

Without another word, he marches to his place, the other Sergeants go to theirs, the GSM sits, everyone else sits.
During my tour in Cyprus Mrs G and I were invited to the Royal Signals Sgt's Mess, Episkopi, for New Year's Eve. On arrival with my small party of friends I offered to buy the first round of drinks. I was the only one at the bar and gave the barman my order. He then completely ignored me, standing there polishing glasses etc. A few minutes later in walked the RSM with his party. He walked up to the bar ordered drinks and was immediately served. The barman then turned to me and took my order. My friends took great delight in explaining that on social nights, no-one is served before the RSM! As an aside, the drummer in the band was 'inside' but the RSM released him for the evening's event.

[BEagle]

One of our more prickly Air Engs, known as 'Caring Ken, the Airman's friend' ("Take your hands out of your pocket when you're talking to my Captain, airman!") was once staying at some pongo mess. After a long day, he too was given the usual ignoring by the barman, but inquired as to the reason. He was told that the RSM had to be served first, or some such tradition.

Not to be outdone, Ken replied that he was senior to the RSM (true) and would like a beer. With which he was then served.

Enter the RSM and cronies in full "What's going on here then" mode. Caring Ken then gave him rather a firm explanation; the RSM realised he was up against someone with similar views to his own and they settled down for a very convivial session.

[PingDit]

Quite right too Beags! The same happened to me at RAF Chessington. It was at the time, a tri-service mess. The CMC was an RSM and apparently the same rules were followed. Having had 'the rules' explained to me by the Corporal barman, I too explained that as we were in an RAF mess and that I too was senior to the RSM, if a beer didn't appear on the bar within 30 seconds, there was going to be trouble. The bar shutters were raised and beer swiftly arrived, followed 5 minutes later by the RSM. I simply smiled at him, offered to buy him a beer in 'our RAF Mess' and he just smiled back without uttering a word. Marvellous!

Are you per chance referring to Ken the Wet-man above?

[langleybaston]

Intrigued I am!

Please how is an RAF gent of WO and SNCO Mess status senior to an RSM .......? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

RSMs are WO I and, until recently at least [QR 1975 as amended], took precedence after:

1. Conductor RLC, RA Sgt Major, ASM RMAS, GSM London [all equal despite huffing and puffing by Conductors]
2. Master Gunner RA
3. GSM other than London

and then RSMs etc.

So [I am guessing] are/ were Master Aircrew somewhere in the 1,2,3 above?

You will note that, although RAF mad, my nolledge is woeful.

[charliegolf]

Please how is an RAF gent of WO and SNCO Mess status senior to an RSM .......? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Seniority by date?

CG

[langleybaston]

By date possibly but the army pecking order only involves consideration of date of warrant among "equals" eg. the Conductor/RW SM, AcSM and GSM London grouping.

It seems to matter a great deal to the army and always has!

And to anyone trying to get a drink of course.

[PingDit]

In reply to LB, yes, I was Macr of around 15 years standing at the time. Firstly, Macr came first in the Air Force List, above Warrant Officers. I was also the more senior of the two of us.

Ping

[Blue Bottle]

Army QR's have never mentioned the RAF. The army are big on their pecking order, the RAF go more by seniority date

[ian16th]

Army QR's?
In my day QR's were the all service bit.

We had AMO's for our unique bits!

[Blue Bottle]

Ian - it must have changed the day you left then

Queen's Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Regulations) ;)

[smujsmith]

It's 1970 something, and I am doing a tour as a Corporal A. tech A at Cranditz. As many if you gentlemen! Will know, the station parades were always practised on the small parade square in front of the H Block accommodation, across the road from the famous orange. One of my SAC's (known as "Punkah Wallah"), passing, and noticing the SWO taking an evening drill practice for an upcoming parade, decide to apply some abuse to "the Tate and Lyle wearer". Having shouted his finest profanities towards the said bearer of the stick, he made a run for the door in the corridor joining the two halves of the H block. Ooops, door was locked, oops, no escape. Punkah did not enjoy his Jankers, but the SWO did.:oh:

[parabellum]

A swagger stick not sure but don't think so.


Going back as far as WW1 and before all other ranks carried a Swagger Stick at times, usually about two feet long and in many cases made of Malacca cane.

The Sgt's Mess belongs to the RSM and that includes any by-laws he may introduce. Visitors are expected to respect such laws, seniority doesn't come into it at any level. I never was in an Army mess that said the RSM had to be served first, frequently he wouldn't even be there. Any visitor of any rank that said there would be trouble if a beer wasn't produced within thirty seconds would most likely be invited to leave. In the Army a Wo's & Sgts Mess is just that, not some glorified RAF corporals club!:}

[Blue Bottle]

I think you will find that the Mess belongs to the sum of it's paying members, not one person...so glad I am not in a Mess that belong's to an RSM

[500N]

I have only really been in combined messes.

But re WO's / Sgt's messes, isn't the RSM normally the PMC
by default ?

Agree with what Parabellum said, especially as a Visitor !

[ian16th]

Ian - it must have changed the day you left then BB, Thanks for the polite way of telling me that I was wrong :oh:

But it hasn't mattered for 48 years :ok:

[parabellum]

I think you will find that the Mess belongs to the sum of it's paying
members, not one person


Technically yes and the RSMs I came across were usually democratic but the RSM, if present, is, in most cases, the final law, just tradition, often going back many, many decades. (PMC = President of the Messing Committee and responsible for the day to day running of the mess).

[cargosales]

Nothing to do with SWOs, sticks or similar and apologies for the thread drift but ...

It could be worse. Imagine it, being a US Marine and carrying a brolly.

President Obama makes U.S. Marine break the rules, and he does not look happy about it!! | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325893/President-Obama-makes-U-S-Marine-break-rules-does-look-happy-it.html)

Quite ridiculous and just the sort of non-story that the Daily Wail delights in.

Why on earth should any world leader, let alone POTUS, be expected to be familiar with the minutiae of service regulations regarding deportment of different parts of their military? Even if those peeps are notionally 'guarding him' [when everyone knows it's the scary-looking chaps in plain suits with ear pieces and shades who really matter] why on earth shouldn't the leader of the greatest nation in the world ask the nearest serviceman or woman or two to hold up a brolly to save him from getting rained on while he's trying to give a speech??

Is the President of the United States of America important enough to warrant that or isn't he??

Just asking like...

[NutLoose]

You just break it putting it up, thus rendering the said brolley pointless, although ceremonial, are the Marines not also there as part of the security as is the case with the guards at Betty's London home.

In which case it is wrong to ask them to hold it, though tactfully they obliged whist probably thinking of 101 ways to stick the said brolley to Obama.

[eastern wiseguy]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/945204_532821336759481_226262246_n.jpg

Seems to be a common occurrence...and I would think Dubya needs it up the chuff WAAAAY before President Obama

[Willard Whyte]

#1 doesn't look like a military type holding the brolly. Could be C.I.A. I suppose; probably fires .44 cartridges too.

#s 2 &3 look like a Ranger holding the brolly? Maybe it's part of their kit. I really don't know, or indeed care.

Not an obama fan, that Marine should shove the brolly where the sun doesn't shine, although many folk seem to think it does indeed come from b.h.o's ass.