Help needed identifying someone who is potentially lying about RAF experience

[spimbolligan]

Good afternoon

I have just started working with someone on a high profile/high cost project that is under scrutiny for potential purchase by the MOD. The gentleman in question claims to have flown Hawks in the RAF in the mid to late 1970s. Whenever I question him about his experience on Hawks, postings, dates of graduation from Cranwell and so forth, his responses are extremely vague and seem ill-informed.

This is an extremely delicate situation as we are about to be scrutinised by DE&S and I would like to assure myself on behalf of the investors that he is telling the truth. If lies are uncovered as part of a due diligence process, it will jeopardise the considerable investment that I and others have put into the project.

I would value any assistance that any of you can give me in identifying whether or not my colleague served. If he is telling the truth (and is just naturally vague), believe me I will be delighted.

Please PM me for further details

[pr00ne]

spimbolligan,

Ask him what else he flew. Nobody 'just' flew Hawks. it was a part of the fast jet training pipeline, so it is entirely possible that the Hawk was the LAST aircraft he flew in the RAF, if he was chopped at Valley or TWU.

Also, in the mid seventies it was also entirely possible for a GD(P) not to have been anywhere near Cranwell.

Also, you may want to have a quiet word in his ear about the consequences for him of a reference check revealing that his CV is less than truthful.

[sycamore]

You might try the London Gazette archives,or someone may have access to an Air Force List(bedtime reading..)

ED. Can`t have gone much further ,as if he was a `fighter pilot` he`d be boring you to death as a WIWO/L,J,P,B,T..forgot Harrier...

[just another jocky]

Ask him what the T6NL warning was for.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Service records can be obtained by individuals, next of kin or general enquirers using the procedure here:

https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records#how-to-apply-for-service-personnel-records

[Wander00]

Tell him that acceptance of the bid will require docs check with RAF records and a police check for convictions/warnings

[Courtney Mil]

PM me his name. I went through Hawks at that very time. Simples.

[spimbolligan]

Thanks all for your replies.

I don't have access to an RAF list. I've just spent some time tracking my father down via the Gazette and it's a bit too time consuming for my needs.

As for blind-siding him with bold face drills or "having a quiet word", the situation is sensitive, so I'd rather not at this stage.

If, working with one or more of you via PMs (thanks Courtney) I can establish that its unlikely that he served, I'll have the quiet word re fraudulent CV then

[sisemen]

Tell him that you're really impressed given that you'd heard the rumours that they were very unforgiving aircraft once the No 2 engine flamed out - which was a regular occurrence.

Hint: they only had one engine.

[BEagle]

As I've indicated in my PM, if your chap is not a Brit, it might well be worth remembering that there were a number of visitors who came to Valley in the early days of the Hawk on various potential customer assessment sessions.

An Israeli pilot was brutally honest about the pre-AHARS compass system, I recall.

Also don't forget that CFS might have had FJ QFIs from non-RAF backgrounds on various courses.

[spimbolligan]

Thanks for your continuing interest and PMs on this.

He definitely claims to be ex RAF and ex Cranwell - so he wasn't a visiting "foreigner"

I can't ask him any more loaded questions about the Hawk, Squadrons, bases, Cranwell etc etc as I have already peppered him with loaded questions about loop time, EGOV, 14/32 etc etc

[Courtney Mil]

It sounds to me like it might be fairly safe to assume it's a load of old hoop then.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Sounds like an extremely important issue (no facetiousness implied); have you considered just outright asking him?

I'm sure if you dressed it up as "investors requiring proof of service from anyone with service credentials involved in the project" etc then you'd get your answer. Any evasiveness would make me think he's full of it.

Every pilot will know where their logbook is if nothing else, and I don't know a single FJ mate without at least a handful of posed by-the-cockpit photos that are easy to access!

[sisemen]

Ask him what entry he was in at Cranwell. Then report it here and there are enough people with enough nous about IOT to be able to pin it down.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Likewise squadrons, courses he was on or taught, etc etc. Most suspicious thing so far is claiming to have flown the Hawk in the mid-to-late 70s (which would have been its introduction?) but no mention of the preceding/succeeding Lightning/Phantom/Buccaneer/etc tours.

[BOAC]

You could always say, casually, that you have mentioned on a mil forum that you know a chap from the '70s'/Cranwell/Hawks' and that others from the same era are interested to know which Cranwell course?

What about sharing your concerns higher up the tree and seeing if the CV can be 'inspected' if the project is that sensitive?

[BEagle]

...a high profile/high cost project that is under scrutiny for potential purchase by the MOD...

If it's that high profile/high cost, then you cannot afford liars. Tell him that there are doubts about his service history and that Questions Will Be Asked unless he can prove his claims!

What rank did he reach - and why did he leave?

And yes, ask him to show you his Form 414!

[Courtney Mil]

...or his log book. :E

[Evanelpus]

Is it your project or are you working for him on his project.

If it's the former, it's simple. Ask him to provide PROOF of what he is claiming and tell him that this will be expected when you get checked out by the DE&S. If he can't or won't provide it, get rid! Simples:ok:

If it's the latter, this may be a bit more delicate, so good luck

[spimbolligan]

Evanelpus

Latter. Hence my tentative approach. Once I've satisfied myself that he's walting, I'll raise it with a more senior shareholder

[cargosales]

Is it possible that he did get onto Hawks but got chopped and is slightly embarrassed to admit that? And/or that he has 'overlooked' that point as he has gone forward in his career since then?

Let's face it, 'I served in the RAF and flew Hawks' could be technically true and looks far better on a CV, than 'I tried to be a pilot but got binned'. Who here doesn't try to make their CV/career look and sound as good as possible, accentuating the positives without actually telling lies?

Or he could be walting, pure and simple.

CS

who got chopped :{

[sharpend]

I have over 1000 hrs on Hawks, but cannot for the life of me remember what a T6NL caption was for :oh:

ps I was that A2 QFI :ugh:

[Courtney Mil]

Overtemp in engine zone 6 and/or overspeed of the low pressure spool. That was only from memory so standing by for a QFI shafting.

[dervish]

It is important this guy is who he says, but I'm not sure DE&S would be too interested. They wouldn't be too keen on the CVs of some of their own people being scrutinized too closely! I know one civvy, now a 2 Star, whose early CV is a complete fabrication. He claimed experience in aircraft trials management and was given a Grade 7 job on that basis. Turned out he'd visited an air station for a half day to watch some kit being fitted to a helo for a trial.

[racedo]

I can understand the OP going through this carefully as if person is whom he says he is and finds you checking him then a huge element of trust will disappear.......foreever.

OP is being taken at face value the reason why he/she is checking up on this individual.

Its quite possible individual doesn't want to remember his history for whatever reason and I believe there can be many reasons for this.

Person is on the project for a reason and clearly brings some skills onto it but if you feel that it is an issue then request all individuals on the project provide evidence of verifiable career history.

[Bob Viking]

No shafting from this QFI. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. No need for exact numbers, that's just nerdy!
BV:8

[Wensleydale]

I once met the wife of a contemporary who was chopped at Nav School (unusual surname led me to ask if she was related) - she said how sad it was that the medical problems on his fast jet OCU had led to him joining a ground branch. He later went on to become a Wing Commander.....:=

[BEagle]

Wasn't T6NL more usually caused by Engine Control Amplifier failure rather than a direct internal engine failure? The indication meaning that the temp at the 6th plane and/or the LP shaft speed were no longer being controlled correctly?

Do keep us informed re. this likely Walt.

[Courtney Mil]

Smart BAE would have come up with and ECA caption for that, wouldn't they?

http://www.skysim.co.uk/Support/Hawk/Docs/Manual/resources/CWP.JPG

[tucumseh]

if you feel that it is an issue then request all individuals on the project provide evidence of verifiable career history.


This is mandated (or should be) in the Invitation to Tender. The resulting Project Management Plan will, near the beginning, have the C.V.s of the senior company people e.g. Project Manager, Quality, Risk, Engineering, Commercial etc.

If you want to avoid speaking out internally, ask MoD when they are going to conduct an audit of the PMP for continued validity. This would be required, for example, at a significant contract amendment or when one of the named officers left. That would be a good excuse and seen to be at MoD's behest. The audit should drill down through the management chain, although wouldn't be too bothered about very junior staffs.

To take Dervish's point (I know who you're talking about - he's no longer at ABW as he got promoted) I have known companies who have done this in reverse, challenging MoD staff suitability.

[BEagle]

Smart BAE would have come up with and ECA caption for that, wouldn't they?

It seems they did! Thanks for the correction, Courtney!

[Courtney Mil]

To be honest, Mate, I wasn't totally sure until I found the picture. :cool:

[BEagle]

I think I was confusing it with another aeroplane type, which had a top temp isolation switch - or rather, 4 of them. If a TTC switch was set to isolate, the control amplifier was isolated and top temp and NL protection was no longer available.

Too many years and too many types, I guess!

[MATELO]

Should I be pressing that big red button marked F at the top left hand side. :rolleyes:

http://www.skysim.co.uk/Support/Hawk/Docs/Manual/resources/CWP.JPG

[Stuff]

I know someone who did that while showing some visitors around with the battery switched off convinced that nothing would happen.

Damn that commoned battery supply :(

Out of interest, if anyone else has the misfortune to make the same mistake, go and admit to the engineers what you have done sharpish. The contents of the fire extinguisher corrode the engine parts if you don't burn it off quickly.

[Shackman]

Once upon a time I flew an aircraft with a 'push to test' fire button (before engine start), and then I went to fly an aircraft with a 'pull to test' fire button.

Even before first solo I discovered there were an awful lot of screws to undo to get at the engine fire extinguishers on a Wessex! And I had plenty of practice!

[Tiger_mate]

Every serviceman will have a high point, low point in their career that they can answer swiftly and with confidence if asked. Likewise they will have been on an awesome detachment and a right sh17hole somewhere that again will roll off the tongue without thought. The best fiction is an embellishment of fact, anything else will be easily seen as the person takes time to think about an answer.

The Hawk was also known at the time you mention as the HS1182, HS being Hawker Siddeley an independent manufacturer before the creation of BAe. One ride in the back of a jet does not make you into a jet jockey, but it could enable a Walt to recite tails of daring do down the welsh valleys.

I recently attended a formal ATC dinner in which many wore miniature medals and talked with bravado about flights in this and that. I wore black tie and no medals and never before have I heard so much sh*te coming across a table in such a short period of time. It is amazing how many jubilee medals of 1977 the ATC appear to have got given that most stns and regiments only got 2 or 3.

Or the No5 equipped officers adorned with RAF pilots wings who when asked about which stallion he rode replied with Vigilant!

[Davita]

Sometimes, in this techno world, it isn't so easy to define what one's job was in the past.
i.e. I was a Halton Apprentice (1952-1955).
I served 5 years in the RAF as a G/E on various A/C such as Canberra/Valiants and 16 years as a Flight Engineer on Hastings/VC10's.
This was followed by a total of 16 years in commercial aviation as an F/E on Convair 880's; B707; L1011 and B747 200/300, then I retired.
I'm often asked what do you do...I reply "I'm 75...I sleep most of the time."
The next inevitable question is "What did you previously do?' and I say I was a Flight Engineer.
"A what!" is the usual response.
It is simplistic for me to say I was a 2nd officer, which presumes I was a pilot. This is not a lie as I had a PPl on Chipmunks but, like my UK driving licence, it has long ago expired.
But, that seems to satisfy the inquiry and the subsequent knowledge based b/s that I advocate at dinner parties, especially when well imbibed.:ok:

[spimbolligan]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice, especially Courtney Mil, 30mRad and BEags all of whom provided additional help via PM.

I'll be meeting the character in question today. I don't think he served but I'll give him the opportunity to provide info that establishes his bona fides (Service number, Cranwell intake etc) or retract his story.

[airborne_artist]

I don't think he served

The chances are he did serve, but in a very different role. We had and still have plenty of Walts from my time in green, perhaps the most famous being Baron Castleshort (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/The_Baron_of_Castleshort). His time with 21 was very short indeed, but look what he did with it.

Many of the Walts have been close to the role they claim and so have been able to pick up some jargon and some believable stories about their "when I was on xxxx".

[BEagle]

spimbolligan - it's Cranwell 'entry', not 'intake'. So I suggest you use the term 'intake' - he should then correct you and provide the number of his 'entry'!

Ask him what 'The Orange' is....and also what he flew whilst at Cranwell.

Which squadron at Valley - and did he do any weapons training on the Hawk?

[E L Whisty]

Or you could just say 'Look dude, it is really important to this project that nobody fibs about their experience and expertise. You have told me that you were a Royal Air Force fighter pilot and you look and sound like a dripping Walt. So, **** me not. Are you on the level?'

The trouble is, he might not like you.

I'll come and do it for a 4 bottle lunch.

(I haven't got any mates either)

[Pontius Navigator]

I've just spent some time tracking my father down via the Gazette and it's a bit too time consuming for my needs.

I was a bit suspicious of the OP given the poster's low thread count however I am inclined to believe he is genuine.

However I am surprised that someone who has used the London Gazette finds it too time consuming. Compared with the time posting here on pprune it was lightning fast. In another post he mentioned the name of a flt lt. In advanced search I entered the name and it immediately returned his RAF details.

In the case of the OP, unless the man has a common name, you should soon narrow it down. You have a year period, he is supposedly GD/P, if chopped he may have re-branched and that would be shown too. It should also show if his commission was relinquished, terminated, or retired.

[barnstormer1968]

Many of the Walts have been close to the role they claim and so have been able to pick up some jargon and some believable stories about their "when I was on xxxx".

Oddly, many stories are told by chaps drinking xxxx (4 x) ..............
See what I did there :)

[oldmansquipper]

Hmm..Sympathise with the difficulties of working for someone who "embellishes" their credentials...I met a few over the years.

However - if this is a sensitive and costly MoD project and said `mate` proves dodgy - then its whistleblowing time. There have been too many cover ups (Allegedly) IMHO.

Good luck.

(As an aside, this forum will be monitored anyway so perhaps wheels are already in motion)

[tucumseh]

BGG

Not always the case, depends on the nature of the project is Tuc. I guess you're assuming that this is the type you're familiar with.


Apologies. I just assumed it was an aircraft or aircraft equipment contract. While the policy I spoke of has never been rescinded, I do know, for example, that DLO IPTs stopped implementing it and many at AbbeyWood ignored it. Nevertheless, it is mandated primarily because it is the means by which company staff are vetted when granted financial delegation to commit MoD funding without having to seek approval every time. Such appointees are only nominated by the company, but formally approved by MoD, who have the right to hire and fire. The same policy forms the basis of GOCO type contracts. Hence, it is imperative the CVs be correct and the regs require them to be checked regularly. Used to be every year, but I know we went to 3 years when satisfied there was continuity. The only time I ever sacked someone! His CV was accurate, but he was not properly qualified.

[SOSL]

The final Flight Cadet entry at Cranwell was 101, who graduated, and received their commissions, in 1972 IIRC. Entries after that for a couple of years were designated by low numbers followed by GE (Graduate Entry) and the entrants were already commissioned.

This is a simplification but it might help you.

Do let us how you get on.

Rgds SOS

[Pontius]

Spimbolligan,

You've got bigger problems in your co-worker than you first considered. Any level-headed, intelligent and mentally stable person who'd served in the RAF would be keeping very quiet about the fact.

Mopeds and fat girls spring to mind :E

[Whenurhappy]

PN, et al,

There is little point looking for anything recent in the London gazette, becasue, err, the RAF no longer 'Gazettes' it's officers. Stopped in the mid-2000s, along with a published RAF List - both a rather mean-spirited cost-daving measures.

[dazdaz1]

Just a thought??? What if the OP is..... "The gentleman in question claims to have flown Hawks in the RAF in the mid to late 1970s" and looking for info?

Bet you never thought of that. It was quite a common ploy by myself and other operators in MI6 to gain intelligence.

Daz.

[CoffmanStarter]

OMG ... Now we have a spook :suspect:

[Bob Viking]

Courtney and BEags,
The two captions are intrinsically linked. A failure of the ECA will lead to an over temp at high power settings. Hence you will get both captions. Ironically although the T6NL is a red caption and the ECA is yellow, the latter becomes the priority. That is because the drill for T6NL is to select idle. With an ECA failure that may flame the engine out.
I love a bit of tech talk in the morning. Smells like...
(Please fill in the gap as you deem appropriate).
BV

[CoffmanStarter]

TigerM @ #38 ... I thought the Vigilant was our Top Secret 4th V Force Bomber :E

There are many good Air Cadet Officers/Staff who willingly give up their spare time to genuinely help our young people get interested in flying and the RAF rather than sit on their a$$ and/or beat up old ladies ... Equally you will, like in all walks of life, get a few pr@ts.

I can recall an Air Cadet Wing Co referring to his new GI "wings", when first issued, that they "looked like the real thing" on No 5's :rolleyes:

Sad really ... as comments like that tend to tar the more modest volunteers who have worked hard/long to get their GI Rating ... as have professional Regular Aircrew ... but there can be no other comparison.

Easy mistake to make I suppose ... especially if you've had a couple of sherbets :ok:

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zps613d6c51.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zpse1120f03.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

PN, et al,

There is little point looking for anything recent in the London gazette, becasue, err, the RAF no longer 'Gazettes' it's officers. Stopped in the mid-2000s, along with a published RAF List - both a rather mean-spirited cost-daving measures.

Recent Gazettes maybe but as the individual was apparently at Cranditz in mid-1970s, assume age 21, and served to age 55 then he could indeed not have been shown as retired about 2008. Now at age 60 he is clearly in a very senior position but would that fit with a full term career?

If he retired in his early 40s then that would have been in the 1990s and definitely gazetted.

[BEagle]

Thanks, Bob Viking!

I only did 146 hrs on the Hawk and it was all some 32 years ago, so thanks again for the correction.

The Hawk did have some quirks back then - I seem to recall that pressing the relight button in flight caused all manner of things to happen as accessories were dropped off line? On taxying out at Chiv, I noticed that the GTS had started itself. Tried shutting it down again (can't remember how one did that), but it started itself again - so I binned the trip. It turned out to be a short in the throttle switch, which would have meant that as soon as the weight had come off the wheels on take-off, I'd have had lots of unwelcome captions, nicht wahr?

[Steve the Pirate]

As far as the bloke in the OP's post is concerned, I think 'mid-70s' is stretching it with respect to the Hawk. Late 70s - perhaps. I did my Gnat course in '77 and, towards the end of my course, the Hawk was just being introduced into Valley service for QFI training.

From personal experience, the T6NL caption was a bad thing. :eek:

STP

[Justin Cyder-Belvoir]

Yep, I was on 9 Cse at Valley and the first Hawk course started after us: one of the guys on the first course was Chris who had been on the course 1 behind me at LoO.

That would be late 77 definitively when the Hawk came into training service at VYY.

[Tiger_mate]

There are many good Air Cadet Officers/Staff who willingly give up their spare time to genuinely help our young people get interested in flying and the RAF rather than sit on their a$$ and/or beat up old ladies ... Equally you will, like in all walks of life, get a few pr@ts.


Absolutely, and thankfully in my experience it is those who genuinely push the boat out that are in the majority. The unfair bit (for the good guys/girls) is that it only takes one of said pratts to ruin it for all. FWIW I have extensive experience as ACLO, Service helper, Committee member and so have come across all sorts in my time. Those who simply like to dress up make my blood boil.

[Pontius Navigator]

On taxying out at Chiv, I noticed that the GTS had started itself. Tried shutting it down again (can't remember how one did that), but it started itself again - so I binned the trip. It turned out to be a short in the throttle switch, which would have meant that as soon as the weight had come off the wheels on take-off, I'd have had lots of unwelcome captions, nicht wahr?

Simply, if it don't work on the ground it ain't going to work any better once airborne.

Back to the OP, ask him for a war story, 'any dicey moments in the Hawk . . . '

Walt's delight, 'there I was, upside down, nothing on the clock except the maker's name and that was in French'

[SOSL]

Oh no! Have I been hooked? Have we all been hooked?

Rgds SOS

[Tinribs]

Tell him you are collecting the service numbers of ex service friends for comparison. If he doesn't spout it very fast he didn't have one.

If you meet his wife ask her, she will too. Service number was essential knowledge for every wife for all sorts of issues like medical treatment, station library, station nursery school etc.

There is a large service manual called "the retired officers list", we used to ink out the re, you could check his name in it or get a service chum to do so. There is one on most units so any serving person can help. You might be able to get access at one of the stationary office stores or even ebay

[Pontius Navigator]

Tin, as Whenurhappy said, the Service ran out of money to keep the RAF List in print and the Retired List at all so any book on the station would date from no later than mid-2005 and may therefore have been binned by now.

[Megaton]

If you meet his wife ask her, she will too. Service number was essential knowledge for every wife for all sorts of issues like medical treatment, station library, station nursery school etc.

You are joking, aren't you? My wife would have bitten your head off if you'd suggested that she should know my service number.

[SOSL]

Mine too!

Rgds SOS

[ian16th]

Well my wife still remembers my service number, and all the family know my 'last three' because it is used as the combination of all of our suitcases.

[racedo]

Just a thought??? What if the OP is..... "The gentleman in question claims to have flown Hawks in the RAF in the mid to late 1970s" and looking for info?

Bet you never thought of that. It was quite a common ploy by myself and other operators in MI6 to gain intelligence.

I did as posted in 2007 and disappears for 6 years and then come back digging for info. Probably on level but could also be a journalist.

[Bob Viking]

I congratulate myself on remembering my checks from one day to the next. 32years?! Good skills. Although I can claim to have ten times as many Hawk hours as your good self (and counting) so I really ought to remember.
Just to refresh your memory, pressing the relight button offloads all non-essential loads on the engine, such as the generator and HYD 2 system.
But I'm sure you could have remembered that if you thought hard enough.
Anyway, that's enough tech talk before I get the inevitable bead window call.
After all, the mechanics of the Hawk are one of our nation's most closely guarded secrets!
BV:oh:

[Rossian]

......today was going to be the day. Did you? Or did you not as someone else suggested "grow a pair" and tackle him head on? We're all agog -ish.

The Ancient Mariner

[Always a Sapper]

Set the lads over on ARRSE onto the case.... Soon be sorted :E

[NutLoose]

as Whenurhappy said, the Service ran out of money to keep the RAF List in print and the Retired List at all so any book on the station would date from no later than mid-2005 and may therefore have been binned by now.

My dear chap, that sounds harse, perhaps


as Whenurhappy said, the Service ran out of money to keep the RAF List in print and the Retired List at all so any book on the station would date from no later than mid-2005 and may therefore have been RETIRED by now



Sounds better

:ok:

[Piggies]

Service number?

I'd get a slap if I told my wife she should know mine.

[spimbolligan]

Evening gents

Update: Our mystery man was confronted and now admits that he was UAS and the Hawk stick time was back seat and once only (apparently, it was the ride of a lifetime...)

I also (subtly) checked colleagues plus the on-file CV - no inflated RAF claims, so no risk to the wider project.

Our hero is chastened and knows that he is under scrutiny. Case closed.

Thank you all for your kind advice and PMs.

[NutLoose]

One is glad it has all been settled amicably with no detriment to your project, a win win situation one would say.

[phil9560]

I once met a guy who said he'd had a backseat ride in a F16 off a USN carrier.

[Haraka]

I was in a listed company who's Group Managing Director was the youngest pilot on the Berlin Airlift.
.

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.
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Also , to a different audience, he was the youngest captain of an R.N. ship on D-day.

[Old-Duffer]

The Air Force List was last published in 2007 and the Retired List in 2006 (IIRC).

Although the Air Force List shows all officers and substantive warrant officers or master aircrew and also lists some senior public servants it is always just that little bit out of date, even when just printed.

The Retired List, however, only lists those commissioned officers who RETIRE; that is they - generally - held a permanent commission at the time of their leaving. An officer on a short service commission, who leaves at the end of that engagement, is not deemed to have retired but merely reached the end of their period of service. There are some variations, as with everything but not too many.

Perhaps an easy way to resolve the problem is to contact the Flying Wing Adj at Valley, explain the issue and just ask him to look at the course photos on the wall between dates A and B and let you know if P/O X's name appears. You can tell him that the info is essential to clinch a major commercial deal and if he wants you to write you can do so. Reassure him that you don't want to know anything else - just was this chap actually there! You'll probably get a blank reply but it's worth a try. They do have a community relations officer who might be a better bet.

Old Duffer

[Climebear]

The London Gazette (http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/) is a good source of reference. Amongst other things, it lists commissions, officers' promotions and honours and awards (excluding the special peoples').

[BEagle]

One fine SCT day, the boss being away, the junta persuaded the system that some formation practice would be in order.

We had some studes lurking about, a couple of whom asked to come with us.

"Have you done any formation before?", I asked one of them.

"Not really - just half an hour in an F-16"

:hmm:

Which was actually true as he'd been selected for the exchange trip to the US which was available in those days, lucky blighter.

However, halfway through a rather sporting 'tailchase' came the call to knock it off - "Top Gun is serving lunch!" as my chum in the other aircraft described it.

BV, yes, that's what I remembered - attention getters, alternator and part of the hydraulics off line. Which would have been just great at unstick...:\

I gather that the brakes, anti-skid, relight, compass system and lateral stability were all improved in the years after my short time on the Hawk. But no offset TACAN, the Gnat student's friend...:uhoh:

[Roland Pulfrew]

There is little point looking for anything recent in the London gazette, becasue, err, the RAF no longer 'Gazettes' it's officers. Stopped in the mid-2000s, along with a published RAF List - both a rather mean-spirited cost-daving measures.

Well if that's true, my recent search on the Gazette website seems to have thrown up a few anomalies. Colleagues promoted in the last year or two all seem to have been gazetted.

Still think the ridiculous decision to scrap the published version of the AFL (and army and navy lists) was stupidly mean spirited. Still find my copy of the last printed version (2007) a useful source of reference.

[Dick Allen]

tiger_mate

Knowing well your artist's attention to detail, I'm pretty sure you didn't mix up the two flying badges illustrated at Post No 54.

Volunteer officers supporting the Air Cadet Organisation are commissioned into the RAFVR(T), and as such, are subject to AFA 06.

If you have more details of those allegedly wearing flying badges to which they are not entitled - even on No 5 HD - please PM me with details, and I will ensure they are "appropriately counselled on their error of judgement"!

VMT

DA

[Wander00]

You could of course suggest he joins PPrune and sees this thread - might get the message...I'll get my coat..........

[BOAC]

That's assuming he is not here already and picking up 'bull****' as he goes along.:)

[Courtney Mil]

But no offset TACAN, the Gnat student's friend

Naa, Mate. Point-to-point on the HSI. Bread and butter. :ok:

[BOAC]

A few years back I had the ?pleasure? of sitting next to a LHR BA FO in a restaurant in Napoli (a rare piece of 'sub-species mixing':)) who apparently had spent a whole year flying with the Red Arrows in EXACTLY the same cockpit as a chap I know - and he never noticed. Said bull****ter also claimed to have flown Lightings and Concorde. Probably a Captain now with ISS time. It's amazing what some people think they can get away with.

[Al-bert]

A couple of years after I'd hung up the helmet I was chatting to a guy down at the harbour who was interested in buying a yacht. He didn't want too expensive a yacht since, as his wife said, his first love was 'aviating' (his words too!). My colleague with whom I was working mentioned that I too had been an 'aviator' and he proceeded to inform me that he knew several RAF pilots really well and I might know them. He dropped a couple of names....I pointed out that I was one of those names (and later recalled that I'd shown him around the A/C once during a refuel at the local airfield). He was memorable because I'd never seen so many badges on a flying suit - not even at Culdrose! :cool:

[Wander00]

Gnat, offset TACAN - great memories. Found a photo on the net of Gnat going round (and down) the Lllyn Ogwen turn - sent it to my sons (41,40 and 24) and said that was what the old man had done in his youth - didn't believe me, but quite impressed I am solo in glider again after 45 years!

[Whenurhappy]

Sorry for being boring, but I've just spent about 30 minutes trying to find my entries in the Gazette. The most recent one was a change of Commission in 1990 - no subsequent promotions, change of Branch etc listed. (I'm still serving...).

Does anyone know when the RAF stopped listing in the Gazette? It has been an invaluable source for tracing family histories, along with the Single Service lists that used to be available in public libraries. The RAF List is now a excel spreadsheet, only available on DII, and, as ever, full of inaccuracies. In years to come, it will become increasingly difficult to obtain information on forbears (or for academic research) from authoritative sources.

[Stuff]

It must be down to someone in manning sending (or not) the data to the Gazette. When I look myself up I see my University Cadetship in the late 90s through IOT graduation, all the time-based promotions and a very recent promotion a few months ago.

My change of branch is missing but was this ever shown for anyone?

[Whenurhappy]

I set the filters wide and even tried with the occasional variation in the spelling of my name...but to no avail. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

[Roland Pulfrew]

When

Have you tried your service number? I just did mine in the search function on the Gazette home page and it found all of my promotions including the last one in 07. Tried searching for a few mates and found one who was promoted in Jan 12.

[Whenurhappy]

<embarrassed face>

Um, yes, Service number (or staff number, according to JPA) seems to work, but some of the pages are truncated, but I put that down to viewing on iPad ...:\

[tmmorris]

Service number seems to be the way forward, even worked for me (VRT).

Of course we are all (quite rightly) listed as Fg Offs regardless of acting rank. When did honours start to be listed as acting ranks? Until recently any VRT getting an honour (e.g. for 30+ years in service) was listed as Fg Off, but recently I've seen Wg Cdrs and Sqn Ldrs. As there are no substantive ranks above Fg Off in the VRT this seems a bit waltish.

Tim

[Always Up]

Start by stop prating about - grow a pair and just ask the dude outright. If he was in the service he would appreciate the frankness.

[airborne_artist]

11th May 2013 12:20 Start by stop prating about - grow a pair and just ask the dude outright. If he was in the service he would appreciate the frankness.

He did:

10th May 2013, 23:55 Evening gents

Update: Our mystery man was confronted and now admits that he was UAS and the Hawk stick time was back seat and once only (apparently, it was the ride of a lifetime...)

I also (subtly) checked colleagues plus the on-file CV - no inflated RAF claims, so no risk to the wider project.

Our hero is chastened and knows that he is under scrutiny. Case closed.

Thank you all for your kind advice and PMs.

;)

[Always Up]

He did:



;)

Oops - my bad , fair dinkum!, nothing to see here move on :cool:

[Al R]

Gulp. From yesterday.

BBC News - Fake airline pilot 'landed planes at Gatwick' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-22487205)

[BOAC]

Any USAF know the guy or is that a Walt' outing too?

[CoffmanStarter]

Mind you BOAC this guy has been flying for a National Carrier and hasn't been rumbled yet :E

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ScreenShot2013-05-11at143611_zpsbdca90fa.png

[BOAC]

I think I flew with HER..............

[wiggy]

A few years back I had the ?pleasure? of sitting next to a LHR BA FO in a restaurant in Napoli ..... who apparently had spent a whole year flying with the Red Arrows....


Ooooh, that might well ring bells with a few folk around here - if it's who think it is he's toned his act down a bit, and whilst he is a captain now I don't think even he has dared put ISS on his CV.

[Megaton]

toned his act down a bit

I don't think he's mentioned his time on the Reds for a while but I wouldn't exactly describe his attitude as "toned down."

[BOAC]

We talking "night****? ?:)

[Megaton]

Perhaps we are........

[BOAC]

When you next see him, in all his glory, ask him which positions he flew and which years. I'd be interested. There are a few Lightning drivers around here who would be interested in that part of his career too. We had a tosser F/O in Astraeus who claimed he was the only civilian Harrier pilot....................... The other F/Os (who he regularly whip-lashed) were desperate for him to be rostered with me but we never managed it.

[Genstabler]

To be kind, he may have been a winged holdee. The Reds usually have 2 or 3 attached for up to a year who help out and technically could be described as flying with them.

[BOAC]

To be kind - a nice gesture, but I suspect you do not know him?:)

[5aday]

BOAC- that chap in BA must have been a night mare?

[BOAC]

I think 'no comment' is appropriate.;)

[Bubblewindow]

There are a few Lightning drivers around here who would be interested in that part of his career too

A guy in my class of recruits (now a captain with an American airline) claimed to have flown in the rear seat of his uncles Lightning before joining up.
"The rear seat?" , I said. "They (the T's) were side by side!
"We'll this one was one of a few tandem ones"
He even went on to describe (quite convincingly) how they ran up the Irish Sea at Mach 1, skimming the waves and dodging headlands before a flameout and restart and landing at Woodford!
He should have written novels .

I on the other hand, am quite proud of the 1hr 20 mins on the Hawk in my logbook :E

BW

[5aday]

I once had the pleasure of tipping a whole table load of green and red chilies in the oh so hot soup he ordered for everyone during a night stop in KL. in fact I had to tip some soup out to get all the chillies in.He insisted on ordering for everyone and after several beers he needed the boys room. When he came back he told me that the soup he ordered would be too hot for me. He lost his voice -

for once...........

[Pontius Navigator]

Nutloose, would have thought binned was a reasonable disposal for loose nuts. :}

[Danny42C]

Whenurhappy,

Your #88 refers. I'm a babe in arms in this internet caper. Can anyone tell me if you can get at Air Force Lists for the years 1970 - 85 any way ? I'd like to know how far some of my old mates got (I retired in '72).

Answer has to be very simple for me to understand !

Ta in advance, Danny.

[Pontius Navigator]

Try eBay.

I found Spring 1972 and then 1995, 97, 98, 99 01, 03, 07 amongst others.

[Danny42C]

Pontius Navigator,

Thanks ! I'll have a look,

Danny.

[Union Jack]

I think I flew with HER..............

As long as that's all you did!:)

Jack

[Whenurhappy]

Danny42C

Large Municipal libraries will have older copies of the RAF List, albeit in the stack-room, or they can Interloan copies from other holdings.

Unless, of course, your local library has become an 'infohub@slagston borough council'* and staffed by well-meaning people with dyed hair and piercings, who have never actually worked in a real library.



*purposefully in non-discriminatory lower case

[teeteringhead]

Danny42C

I inherited in my office copies of what I think were the last published Air Force List (2007) and Retired List (2006).

If you'd like to PM me names I can have a look for you. :ok:

[Danny42C]

Whenurhappy,

Thanks ! I'll try - but it's going back a bit.

teeteringhead,

Thanks, too - but all my old mates will have retired long before that !

Danny.

[teeteringhead]

But if they retired from more than a Short Service Commission, they will still be in the Retired List - if still alive in 2006 :eek:

And there are also some older Air Force Lists lurking in the office - not a complete set but the earliest is 1972......

[Davef68]

A guy in my class of recruits (now a captain with an American airline) claimed to have flown in the rear seat of his uncles Lightning before joining up.
"The rear seat?" , I said. "They (the T's) were side by side!
"We'll this one was one of a few tandem ones"


I am reminded of the chap a few years back who was seeking information on the tandem Hunter that he had flown from (IIRC) Yeovilton. He was adamant that it had been a Hunter, but he could find no information on it.

[Mr-Burns]

I think I married her .............

[Halton Brat]

Didn't she fly for a Welsh operator? Was her name Baaaaaabara?

HB

[BOAC]

HB - you reckon that is a sheep?:p Cow Pilot Viral - Age Concern UK on Vimeo

[GGR]

Its BA

Bovine Airways

[Halton Brat]

Oops! 0/10 for animal recognition skills!

In my defence, I would respectfully point out that the bovine in question does bear a passing resemblance to a girlfriend that I had at Valley, many moons ago.

She was, indeed, a sheep called Baaaaarbara.

HB

[olddog]

Definitely not BA. I think He/She was at Kinloss or St Mawgan. Anyone else recognise the Cockpit?

[BOAC]

I would respectfully point out that the bovine in question does bear a passing resemblance to a girlfriend that I had at Valley, many moons ago. - obviously one of the first out of the gate - in time to get a pretty one.:)

[NutLoose]

I remember the one at I think Telford, which is the largest model show. a so called expert on viewing a Phantom model started regaling to all far and wide how inaccurate it was, the cockpits were all wrong etc..... all of this in front of the guy who built it, eventually stopping for air the modeller asked him how many hours he had in the Phantom..... None was the reply... Ohh so the 1000 hrs plus I have means I do not know what it looks like? Sharp steps sideways followed by giggles for the said expert..