EK 777 to 380

[Rather Be Skiing]

Makes sense because we obviously have huge surplus on the 777...


Explains why I only do 90 hours a month and can't get much leave.

[fatbus]

Crewing the 380 is the highest priority at the moment.

[helen-damnation]

Believe the 380 guys are doing similar hours.

This is not an actual move of people, its a request for "expressions of interest" in case of future requirements. It will give them a list of volunteers if they need to do fleet transfers.

Someone is actually planning ahead :eek:

[falconeasydriver]

I seem to recall a pearl of wisdom passed on to me when I was a young fella "never volunteer for anything shaggs"
I applaud the brave souls who are taking one step forward on this mission.

[Cloud Bunny]

Tempting, very very tempting. If it takes LGW (now the pier is open) and starts to look like its going to takeover much of the USA network, then my name will be going on the list - for now though that little voice is telling me to stay put!! :}We probably do have a surplus on the 777 though, I've done bugger all for months now so as Helen says, a bit of forward thinking me thinks.

[helen-damnation]

For what it's worth, and it's only another rumour: I understand that the weight increase on the 380 will only be 7 tonnes, not the 20 previously discussed. Not sure how many US destinations that will access?

[Dropp the Pilot]

The move is a great idea if you have a brilliant plan to stay in Dubai until age 65 but if you have any thoughts of moving elsewhere resist the urge for novelty and stick with the Boeing.

There are a few chaps on the other side who will tell you that they are now stuck in Dubai against their will. In an eery echo of it's inability to leave the gate, holding the 380 type endorsement will chain you to Dubai.

[Payscale]

NOONE is here against their will! They just lack the will to leave....

[glofish]

7 tons and 35 minutes ..... you are dreaming!

13 tons/hour can lead to your assumption, but it's the one a cadet would do. How much do you burn in transporting 7 additional tons over 13-14h???
Right: About 55% of it, meaning almost 4 tons, leaving you with about 15-17 minutes. Great achievement!

The West-coast is doable, but it will be with such a load penalty that will leave the concerned station mangers moaning and bitching at the same level (allthough off the company record) as the ones of LHR and the Aussie managers, confronted with an all out 380 service.

I guess the pink palace barons listen as carefully to station managers as they listen to us ... and any downward curve of revenue will be our common fault, but never theirs.

The whale is great on certain routes, as is a 330 and a T7 on theirs respectively, but stretching it beyond physical laws, simply to please some spectacular number displays and a few tiny egos, will lead to more profit share disappointment among us. :{

(I will stick to the John Deere, preferring the West Coast and hate the 4-legged Aussie 24 hour-layover torture trips)

[fliion]

Surely this will go Jnr.

No one in their right mind would give up a 777 rating for an A380 in the event you need to go to plan B.

At EK, you always need a Plan B

f.

[fatbus]

It was only open to those who where 330 Capt before and had 4 years min on the 777. Probably a one time offer .It went down to at least 11 years in EK.

[scandistralian]

It will be interesting to see how many f/o positions there will be and how many apply...

[donpizmeov]

Glofish can you please explain why the 777 will not accept staff to/from Oz direct even though they have 20+ seats empty? How many empty/blocked seats on the way to LAX? Its a great aircraft but after 12hrs you guys start leaving people/freight behind.

Of course the 380 is ****e at ULR. This is why its being replaced by the 777 on flights to JFK, SYD, MEL, (and soon) BNE. Oh wait there, its the other way around.

This really is a no news story. Those that want to go will go, those that don't won't. Horses for courses. Both types fly for too long and work you too much.

Remembering that there are no unplanned or new deliveries this knee jerk shows once again how forward thinking and accurate our man managers are.

Drop how long have you been here now? Its a bit late to start looking elsewhere old fella.:E

The Don

[helen-damnation]

It was only open to those who where 30 Capt before and had 4 years min on the 777. Probably a one time offer .It went down to at least 11 years in EK.

2 different things here.

The FCI is for volunteers for future requirements and doesn't specify previous 330/340 time.

The guys doing courses now are specifically ex 'bus. Not sure about the 4 years requirement.

[falconeasydriver]

Glofish can you please explain why the 777 will not accept staff to/from Oz direct even though they have 20+ seats empty? How many empty/blocked seats on the way to LAX? Its a great aircraft but after 12hrs you guys start leaving people/freight behind.

Don on the 777 I have never left staff behind out of BNE or MEL direct due to payload restrictions, in fact I've never seen blocked seats on the 777 ex Oz...ever.

Out of DXB, summer, yep..particularly the BNE if the wx at Cooly is a bit pants, as the company always plans with SYD gas.
MEL happened once when Avalon wx was rubbish...now ADL is a company dest it wouldn't be an issue.
I agree though, the 380 is not a ULR machine in its present incarnation...awesome though as a people carrier up to 10-12 hrs (if it manages to leave the gate:ok:)

[SubsonicMortal]

@Falconeasydriver. It just gets under my skin how the Boeing proponents always have to slate the 380. It's rarely the other way around. I have yet to operate a 380 flight that hasn't left the gate due to a technical. (Knock on wood...) It is a great aircraft. So is the 777. The 777 is a fantastic machine. Both types have their strengths and weaknesses. Can the mud slinging stop already? It's getting old.

ILA: A380 tweaks push up dispatch reliability (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ila-a380-tweaks-push-up-dispatch-reliability-376362/)

Airbus is underlining the positive effect that a number of retrofit measures on various systems has had on A380 dispatch.

A total of 82 A380s have been delivered, including the entire complement ordered by initial customer Singapore Airlines.

A380 marketing head Richard Carcaillet says the retrofit improvements lifted the fleet's dispatch reliability rate by a percentage point, to 99.3%, from the beginning of 2012.

SIA defends A380 dispatch reliability (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sia-defends-a380-dispatch-reliability-352872/)

"The A380 has had one of the smoothest introductions to our fleet compared to our previous experience of entry into service of new aircraft," says an SIA spokesman.

Emirates' A380 fleet achieved 100% dispatch reliability last week | Aircraft & Engines content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/aircraft-amp-engines/emirates-a380-fleet-achieved-100-dispatch-reliability-last-week)

Emirates Airline President Tim Clark told ATW at ITB Berlin that all 15 of the airline's Airbus A380s operated for the first time with 100% technical dispatch reliability last week. "We have some hiccups sometimes [with the A380 operation] but the reliability is going up," he said. When EK's first A380 arrived about 220 post-factory modifications had to be made. "Today the number is about 60," he said. Beginning this fall, delivery of its remaining 75 A380s ...

A380 Dispatch Reliability (http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:388668c6-b459-4ea7-941e-a0a2206d415f&plckPostId=Blog%3A388668c6-b459-4ea7-941e-a0a2206d415fPost%3A62041262-a4c0-4c35-8a31-4a0225be6098)

[falconeasydriver]

Sub,

A tad sensitive perhaps? I'm just poking a bit of fun, if that's construed by your goodself as mudslinging I guess your skin might be a little opaque.
The interesting thing with this whole 380/777 narrative is that all the banter I've seen/heard or engaged in has been decidedly good natured, where on earth is the mud slinging?
I personally enjoy paxing on the 380, although I dislike the biz class as it feels like an economy cabin due to its sheer size, again, if that's mud slinging, I guess I'm guilty.

[glofish]

Don

A tad touchy??

Here's what i said:

The whale is great on certain routes, as is a 330 and a T7 on theirs respectively


So nothing against the whale.

Furthermore, ULR is defined as more than 14 hours, and you have to admit that the whale is not good at that. Just as the 77W above those 14 to 15 hours. Even we T7 drivers think that it is stretching it to deploy the 77W above that. There is the 77L .....

So stay cool and enjoy your big tool. :ok:

[Bypass ratio]

I think I'm gonna apply to come over purely so I can piss off ExA380-800 Driver....! Lol

[Dirigible]

Sub,

Of what relevance are your articles you link to? Up to 5 years out of date on a newish aircraft type. Useless in terms of current statistics.

[SubsonicMortal]

Dirigible - The ILA article from Flight Global is dated Sept. 2012. The SIA article from SIA is dated Feb 2011.

[lfrk]

"It appears that a fleet lock has effectively been instigated on the Airbus fleet, without any notification to the pilot body."

Yep very bad!
Won't be surprise if they propose transfert A330/340 to B777 next year when more airbus aircrafts have been phasing out...
It seems that they don't know how to transfert people logicaly.

[clear to land]

Interesting assertion Ex-380-by your response to Bypass you are effectively saying that a current 777 Captain could not pass a 380 conversion-based on what exactly????

[DuneMentat]

Interesting assertion Ex-380-by your response to Bypass you are effectively saying that a current 777 Captain could not pass a 380 conversion-based on what exactly????

His ego is not super enough? :}

[sanddune 1]

"At any rate, it is the senior pilots on the 330/340 who have been shafted the most by the 777 to 380 captain transfers."

I beg to differ....I think it's the senior F/O's on the 380 that have been shafted the most! While the "senior pilots" on the 330/340 fleet wait for their move, at least they wait as Captains.

The senior F/O's on the 380 (some who have been here 6+ yrs) are waiting and ready, only to be told, yes, yes,...Wait!

Don't worry....we are talking with our Union Rep tomorrow! :ugh:!

[emratty]

The main reason for the 777 captains is the lack of 330/340 captains who have the requirements for the 380 i.e 3000 hours LHS EK type. There are only 30 odd line captains who have the hours and these all have courses planned in the next few months.
The 380 F/o's are being generally screwed I think they should be given the chance to go back to the 330 for upgrade but with the number of 380 deliveries it's not going to happen. Upgrades will be very few and far between as the training capacity is not there... The training dartment has been told no outsourcing of training.

[mooseknuckles]

The 3000 LHS EK requirement is arbitrary BS. Eliminate that gem of a management decision and, voila, problem solved. But that involves someone admitting they were wrong in upper mgt, never happen.

[haveago]

So what about the 330 Captains that were fos on the 380 previously. Most of them have close to 2500 hours on the 380. Will they be considered? It would be a nice short "cheaper" course and help towards the unobtainable profit target for next year!

[flyer19832007]

Why the need to transfer from the 777 to the 380? I thought there would be a long line of bus guys waiting to join! Or are the recruitment team not getting the numbers/talent they expected?

[MagicCarpet]

Yeah, the new joiners are lining up in droves for a shot at that 6 year upgrade on the Bus while the 777 guys are getting called in 3

[Payscale]

Magic Carpet..... that does not deter a guy looking for a job in EK. A mere 6 years to a command on a A380...not bad

[MagicCarpet]

Expat pilots generally come to the back side of the world to advance their careers and accelerate career progression.

We don't come to the desert to take the slow road.

If guys want to be patient and play the waiting game, it's best to do that at home. Plenty of slow upgrades and glacial progression where most of us came from.

[MagicCarpet]

. . . but I drift from the topic of the thread, which is 777 to 380.

And there is absolutely no provision for guys wanting to go from Airbus to Boeing (for say, destinations, or to upgrade years earlier).

Bottom line for the Airbus guys is, the Boeing pilots are able to come over and mount your newest & best birds, but you are not allowed to touch any of theirs.

What a deal . . . .

[Payscale]

From youngest FO to an A380 captain in 6 years or so is not slow. How did you come up with that thought?
The company can move people from one fleet to the other at their will. They will first ask for volunteers. If none come forward another arrangement is make. There are plenty of volunteers for the A380 here.

[oz in dxb]

Does anyone know how many 777 Capts are going to the 380?
Anyhow, I'm staying where I am.

Oz

[flaphandlemover]

When was the deadline for the 380 applicatio and how many applied?

[glofish]

Calm down! Rumour has it that there will be a few that will be forced to go to the guzzler ... You'll get your turn.

Ceterum censeo Platinum esse delendam

[Orangewing]

At the moment it's 32 777 Captains to the 380 by the end of June I believe.

[The Zohan]

At the moment it's 32 777 Captains to the 380 by the end of June I believe.

....and they are not being forced.

tz

[helen-damnation]

Last I heard was 40, 3rd & 4th courses this month, 5th next.

I also understand more to come because there's no recruitment on to the 330/340 fleet.

319 anyone :E

[Shadowsonclouds]

any word on FOs?

[airbuddy]

How many Fo's went from 777 to 380 up to now? Any rumor?
Cheers
AB

[fatbus]

I didn't think any did.

[airbuddy]

Thanks fatbus. Was wondering how long it would be at the the moment to get an upgrade on 380 for somebody joining the fleet now, either from within the company or as DEFO, considering still more than 50 aircraft to come.
Cheers

[BigGeordie]

Difficult to say how long, but you would be behind all the F/Os already on the A380 and all the captains and F/Os on the A330/340. I think that would pretty much take care of all the upgrade slots on the A380 unless there are more orders. Still, this is Emirates and anything can happen.

[GoreTex]

as soon you have the requirements, you will bypass everybody on the A330 as they do right now

[airbuddy]

So will they actually need 777 fo's to transfer on 380? and what if they don't have enough volunteers ??
Cheers guys

[Payscale]

No need for B777 FOs to the A380. They would need a full course, so the logic would be to hire from the street. The B777 fleet is not a reducing fleet as the A330, so someone would have to replace these FOs. As all these B777 CA come across there should be command possibilities coming.

[WhyByFlier]

So are commands done based on seniority within fleet at EK? By that I mean if I joined now would I have seniority on the A380 for a command over people 'stuck' on the A330 that moved across later?

[fliion]

Don't come here based on seniority being respected.

While it is broadly followed, multiple iterations and examples whereby it is not, exist.

This is a target driven profit making entity, not much gets in the way.

While not what we want - don't complain too much - we all knew the rules on seniority --> need dependent.

f.

[Al Murdoch]

Moose - are you sure the 3000 hours requirement is arbitrary nonsense? Might it have something to do with insurance?

[mooseknuckles]

I asked JA if the requirement was an insurance requirement or a completely arbitrary standard. He said it is completely arbitrary. This was shortly after he arrived. Someone up high made up the numbers because the 380 was special, like the 340 when it arrived. The reality is that the guys I know who went over from the 340 say the 380 is easier to fly.

[Payscale]

A captain on the A330 senior to you will be offered a A380 command before you, even if you are next on the list. Thats obvious because the planes are going. They cant just fire the guy, so a fleet transfer would be the normal thing to do. But why wonder about that at this stage. Things have a tendency to change to conform with the business requirements. Thats one of the reasons for Emirates success.

[airbuddy]

Payscale
Thanks for your reply...but they asked 777 Fo's for an expression of interest so I guess they will possibly need some of them too on the big bus?
Cheers
AB

[helen-damnation]

The rumour was that the expression of interest (Capt & FO) was just to still the waters as many more wanted to go than were needed.

Having said that, they may need more next week or next decade. This is EK, keep discovering :)

[Iver]

Would would be the reasons for jumping and for not jumping fleets if you were a current 777 FO? The A380 fleet will continue to grow and the A380 routes are improving (or maybe getting worse depending upon your perspective) with time in terms of layovers as more airframes arrive.

I am aware that you need a certain number of hours on type for upgrade - so, if you are mid-level 777 FO (in terms of time on type), would you be nuts to go to the A380 because you would be forgoing an upgrade chance on the 777? Would the time to upgrade be reduced for existing 777 FOs with decent time at the company? Otherwise, why make the jump to the SUPER if you have to start over in terms of hours to upgrade? What would be the pros/cons of that decision?

[BigGeordie]

Iver, for some people it is a matter of lifestyle. This is getting worse on the 777 as it picks up more of the bad flights (night turns to India, less desirable layovers etc.) from the shrinking 330/340 fleet. However, on the 380 it is still pretty good with more days off and mostly good layovers. If people have 30 years to go before they retire an extra couple of years waiting for a command may not seem that important if they enjoy the job while they are waiting. To other people a command as quickly as possible is all that matters.

Generally I find the former group less stressed!

[airbuddy]

What about upgrades on the 777? Is it still as quick as before or not?
Cheers

[fatbus]

Slowing down and taking longer