View Full Version : Plastique Fantastique

6th May 2013, 19:38
What will the repercussions be when this crazy and innovative idea goes mainstream, even if that stream is illegal ?

BBC News - Working gun made with 3D printer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185)



6th May 2013, 19:55
What will the repercussions be when this crazy and innovative idea goes mainstream, even if that stream is illegal ?

No worries. It'll go the way of them new fangled plastic planes

One shot and it will go up in flames

6th May 2013, 19:58
It already has gone mainstream.

Been out there for a while now.

The fad will pass.

6th May 2013, 20:00
he's put the plans on the web » LIBERATOR DEFCAD (http://defcad.org/liberator/)

6th May 2013, 20:03
This happens to be a truly remarkable invention. Opens unbelievable doors.

> 3d printing....not the plastic gun.

Airborne Aircrew
6th May 2013, 21:24
If you look carefully you'll see that the round shown is a .22LR. As such the chamber pressure is minimal... There's a good reason they didn't make a .45, the chamber pressure would blew their hand off.

This company is the leader in printed guns and has been for a while. They started, IIRC, making lower receivers for AR-15's... How could that be you say? Easy, their only part in the weapon was the lower receiver. The rest remained metal to deal with the pressures involved. Even then, when they finally got a "reliable" lower receiver it still only lasted a relatively few number of rounds fired before giving way.

You either need a "sprayable" compound that is heat resistant and as strong as the alloys used in weapons to use as your ink or you'll need a "printer" that sprays liquid metal...

6th May 2013, 21:28
Ye gods!

The lunatics have taken over completely. :ugh:

6th May 2013, 21:35

Not just a 22 Long Rifle but it looks to me like a 22 Short.

tony draper
6th May 2013, 21:36
If you have the 8 grand to spend on the printer you need to print that toy why not just buy the real deal on your local black market? 8 grand is lot to pay for a zip gun.

6th May 2013, 21:36
Wonder how many plastic women have been printed?

6th May 2013, 21:40


Which is why it won't take off in a hurry, although
some person might be bothered where having a
plastic gun might be useful - for illegal purposes.

Remember, Ceramic guns have been around for a while
but I think the Gov't quietly said "don't let them on the market"
or to put it another way, let them on the market and you won't
be in business :O

Doesn't stop them from using them though :O

Nervous SLF
6th May 2013, 21:40
Perhaps that is why Milo and Slasher have been sin-binned? They posted plastic adjusted wimmin photos.

Airborne Aircrew
6th May 2013, 21:55

Not just a 22 Long Rifle but it looks to me like a 22 Short.

You might be right. I thought it was the angle it's sat at that "shortened" it... If you're right then my point is even better made... :ok:

John Eacott
6th May 2013, 22:02
You either need a "sprayable" compound that is heat resistant and as strong as the alloys used in weapons to use as your ink or you'll need a "printer" that sprays liquid metal...

My first exposure to the 3D printer was 4 years ago when I was shown one being used to make components in titanium for a well known US helicopter manufacturer, mostly one-offs for installation into development aircraft.

Instead of 2 weeks lead time to have something made in alloy by a sheetie, 48 hours to draw up the plans and then load the printer and run. The voids in the printer were often used for odd trinkets when printing in plastic, I still have my obligatory giveaway ;)

Airborne Aircrew
6th May 2013, 22:03
Oh... It's hit the front page, (top of), of Yahoo already... It's "stomach churning" according to one hand wringing Democrat... Despite the fact it only shoots a single round of .22 ammunition. :rolleyes:

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/3d-printable-gun-153109290.html)

Hint: Plastic melts when it gets warm. When you shoot a gun it warms up really quickly. On the bright side... We won't have to worry about high capacity magazines... :}

6th May 2013, 22:03

I wouldn't be firing it, regardless of steel gloves and glasses.

I value my body parts :O

Metro man
7th May 2013, 00:38
These are early days for the technology, just imagine ten or twenty years ahead. Remember how basic the internet was in the early 1990s.

Loose rivets
7th May 2013, 02:31
Powdered metals already form some critical parts of a car engine. They are as brittle as eggshells until heat processed. Very easy to print.

Critical, but not under great stress? Try a cam. Pressed onto a shaft after being processed.

There are already plastic guns. Easy to make. Why print them?

If you haven't seen this, brace yourself.


Buster Hyman
7th May 2013, 03:20
Grow your own body parts breakthrough

Grant McArthur
From: Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/)
May 03, 2013 12:00AM

BODY parts custom-made from a patient's own skin cells could be "printed" by Melbourne doctors within three years to save lives and revolutionise surgery. A team at St Vincent's Hospital has used a 3D printer to manufacture structures including muscle cells, cells of the nervous system and cartilage through research that places Melbourne on the verge of a new medical frontier.
They aim to refine techniques to manufacture human skin, cartilage, arteries and eventually whole organs, which could be used in transplants and other operations.

7th May 2013, 08:10

Powdered metals already form some critical parts of a car engine. They are as brittle as eggshells until heat processed. Very easy to print.

Sintered metal components are produced by pressing in a mould with many tens/hundreds of tonnes pressure: the pressure is necessary to give the component structural integrity. Printing will give you a thing that will turn to dust when handled.

John Eacott
7th May 2013, 08:22
Printing will give you a thing that will turn to dust when handled.

Er: no. Please read my previous post re helicopter parts printed in titanium.

7th May 2013, 09:36
You might be able to 3D print a gun, but not the ammo.

I s'pose the chief benefit of the plaggy pistol is it's transparancy to x-rays, but the ammo will show nicely.

I think the things pointless and useless.

7th May 2013, 09:42
Any links please ? I know parts have been made in similar (?) ways for rapid prototyping, but not aware they have been for anything other than static representations not suitable for use.



Not just a 22 Long Rifle but it looks to me like a 22 Short.

Article in The Guardian says it is 0.38. Sorry, can't find it when looking back, so no link.

7th May 2013, 11:15
3D Printing Service i.materialise | Titanium (http://i.materialise.com/materials/titanium)





7th May 2013, 14:04

Did some cross checking and yes, it does say in other places
.380 calibre.

I went and had another look at bigger versions of the photos
and it does look like a 38 cal round - which at that angle in the
photos looks like a .22 cal round.


7th May 2013, 22:51
I loved the 3rd video above. What a brilliant name if you're speaking out against gun violence 'Leah Gunn Barrett' - superb!

7th May 2013, 23:24
Well , if you believe that engineering is a rational science, either these "inventions/developments" are world-beating or incremental steps. What I have seen makes me think it is the latter.

8th May 2013, 09:19
The simple way to beat this is by flooding the internet with downloadable gun sources that don't quite work. If you have to print a few hundred guns (and test them) before you find the correct one this will soon go away.

And of course the lawsuit from the first person shot by one will ruin the originator.

8th May 2013, 10:20
New articles today in various papers spouting how in a few years the face of manufacturing will have changed due to 3D milling machines and how millions of workers :rolleyes: worldwide will become unemployed as these do-it-alls do it all. Perhaps I'm not seeing the big picture, but unless there's a major leap in ability I couldn't envisage them being used for more than specialized niche markets.


tony draper
8th May 2013, 10:23
Follow General Ludd! smash the printers.:rolleyes:

8th May 2013, 10:40
I wonder who is going to be the first celebrity to have plans of her breasts on a download site.:E

8th May 2013, 11:05
You might be able to 3D print a gun, but not the ammo.

I s'pose the chief benefit of the plaggy pistol is it's transparancy to x-rays, but the ammo will show nicely.

I think the things pointless and useless.

Thinking laterally about this, why does a virtually disposable printed plastic gun (my understanding is that the barrel is only good for a single shot at the moment) need conventional ammunition?

Perhaps this technology could take weapons in a new direction. Imagine a printed plastic gun with, say, six one-use barrels (a bit like a fixed barrel Gatling gun).

Imagine that the projectile uses a dense plastic, rather than metal (OK for short range use, I'd guess), and finally imagine that you don't use a brass casing (what's the point, each barrel can only fire once), but instead pack the charge, muzzle loader style, into the base of each barrel.

Instead of a percussion cap to ignite the charge you could use an electrical discharge. The trigger could be a push button system to fire each barrel in turn, giving a fairly rapid fire capability, albeit with only a handful of rounds.

The printed gun needn't even look much like a conventional gun, in fact if it didn't then it'd be easier to disguise it from X-ray machines (the battery could be removed and placed in another appliance for disguise, perhaps). It's a scary thought, but I think the technology probably now exists to print a weapon like this and I think it's possible that someone sufficiently ingenious might get it through security and on board an aircraft without detection.

I doubt I'm alone in thinking of the sort of possibility this technology helps to make real, in fact I'd be quite surprised if there aren't working guns like this in existence right now. Conventional gun makers have been working on minimal metal content personal weapons for a long time, I recall seeing a 90% plastic pistol at the H&K factory at Oberndorf around 10 years ago.

El Grifo
8th May 2013, 12:44
Mr Wilson, who describes himself as a crypto-anarchist, said his plans to make the design available were "about liberty".

Asked if he felt any sense of responsibility about whose hands the gun might fall into, he told the BBC: "I recognise the tool might be used to harm other people - that's what the tool is - it's a gun.

"But I don't think that's a reason to not do it - or a reason not to put it out there."

Yeah Right :ugh:

8th May 2013, 13:31
The simple way to beat this

And completely ineffectual. First person with a good file does a content hash to generate a Magnet URI, then the file can simply be torrented by hash rather than by name.

10th May 2013, 10:15
Won't stop copies being put up elsewhere on the web, but looks like the original posters are in deep trouble......

State Department Requests Defense Distributed Remove Digital Blueprints for 'Liberator' Gun (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/347899/state-department-requests-defense-distributed-remove-digital-blueprints-liberator-gun)

Well, that didn’t take long. The State Department’s Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance has requested that Defense Distributed remove the digital blueprint for its “Liberator” 3D-printable gun. Where a link to the blueprint once appeared, DD’s website now features this message:


Arguing that, by making the files available internationally, Defense Distributed may have violated International Traffic in Arms Regulations, the State Department issued the following letter to the group’s founder, Cody Wilson: The Department of State, Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Defense Trade Controls Compliance, Enforcement Division (DTCC/END) is responsible for compliance with and civil enforcement of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778) (AECA) and the AECA’s implementing regulations, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (22 C.F.R. Parts 120-130) (ITAR). The AECA and the ITAR impose certain requirements and restrictions on the transfer of, and access to, controlled defense articles and related technical data designated by the United States Munitions List (USML) (22 C.F.R. Part 121).

The DTCC/END is conducting a review of technical data made publicly available by Defense Distributed through its 3D printing website, DEFCAD.org, the majority of which appear to be related to items in Category I of the USML. Defense Distributed may have released ITAR-controlled technical data without the required prior authorization from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), a violation of the ITAR.

Technical data regulated under the ITAR refers to information required for the design, development, production, manufacture, assembly, operation, repair, testing, maintenance or modification of defense articles, including information in the form of blueprints, drawings, photographs, plans, instructions or documentation. For a complete definition of technical data, see 120.10 of the ITAR. Pursuant to 127.1 of the ITAR, it is unlawful to export any defense article or technical data for which a license or written approval is required without first obtaining the required authorization from the DDTC. Please note that disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or tranferring technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad, is considered an export under 120.17 of the ITAR.

The Department believes Defense Distributed may not have established the proper jurisdiction of the subject technical data. To resolve this matter officially, we request that Defense Distributed submit Commodity Jurisdiction (CJ) determination requests for the following selection of data files available on DEFCAD.org, and any other technical data for which Defense Distributed is unable to determine proper jurisdiction:
Defense Distributed Liberator pistol
.22 electric
125mm BK-14M high-explosive anti-tank warhead
5.56/.223 muzzle brake
Springfield XD-40 tactical slide assembly
Sound Moderator – slip on
“The Dirty Diane” 1/2-28 to 3/4-16 STP S3600 oil filter silencer adapter
12 gauge to .22 CB sub-caliber insert
Voltlock electronic black powder system
VZ-58 sight
DTCC/END requests that Defense Distributed submits its CJ requests within three weeks of the receipt of this letter and notify this office of the final CJ determinations. All CJ requests must be submitted electronically through an online application using the DS-4076 Commodity Jurisdiction Request Form. The form, guidance for submitting CJ requests, and other relevant information such as a copy of the ITAR can be found on DDTC’s website at U.S. State Department - Policy - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (http://www.pmddtc.state.gov).

Until the Department provides Defense Distributed with the final CJ determinations, Defense Distributed should treat the above technical data as ITAR-controlled. This means that all such data shoudl be removed form public access immediately. Defense Distributed should also review the remainder of the data made public on its website to determine whether any additional data may be similarly controlled and proceed according to ITAR requirements.

Additionally, DTCC/END requests information about the procedures Defense Distributed follows to determine the classification of its technical data, to include aforementioned technical data files. We ask that you provide your procedures for determining proper jurisdiction of technical data within 30 days of the date of this letter to Ms. Bridget Van Buren, Compliance Specialist, Enforcement Division, at the address below. Despite the removal, the file is still hosted on upload site Mega, linked to seven different times in the Pirate Bay library, and referenced on various bittorrent sites across the Internet. More important, the file is now on at least 100,000 private hard drives. The cat is out of the bag. Once again: The only people who are going to follow the rules on this are the people who you don’t need to worry about in the first place.

10th May 2013, 10:28
That US government attempt to close the stable door long, long after the horse has bolted shows just how behind the curve the US government (or any other for that matter) is with the new world order.

Information now spreads virally and very rapidly, and there is not a damn thing the US government can do to stop it now. That smart crest and fine set of words just makes them look pretty dumb, as pretty much anyone who wants this file will be able to get it, both now and for many years to come.

It's a good illustration of the powerlessness of government when it comes to information control, but does raise some serious questions as to how governments that want to control weapons (or anything else that can be defined by readily transmitted data) are going to cope in future. Be interesting to watch developments on this, as somehow I think all we're likely to see is some pompous bluff and bluster by folks who think they are in control when reality shows they really aren't.